Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 1 year ago

Why you can't afford to skip customer discovery w/ Yossuf Albanawi


We can’t always choose where we come from, but we sure can drive the bus to our chosen destination!

Personal experience with a product or solution that your startup is addressing is a bonus - but as Yossuf Albanawi explains, it’s not always enough. 

Personal experience paired with customer discovery, however, can be the key to not only creating a viable product but also uncovering your competitive advantage.

It might be tempting to take a shortcut to avoid paying a toll, but in the long run, the quickest route between where you are now and where you want to be is a straight line.

So, don’t skip customer discovery!

In this episode, Yossuf sheds all pretense to bring our listeners a candid and engaging episode that highlights the power of the human spirit - and the passion that drives success. 

Here are the show highlights:

  • How firsthand experience can be the fuel that drives your startup forward. (1:53)
  • Why product-market fit and customer discovery work hand-in-hand. (4:14)
  • When customer discovery can open up the path to a more viable product. (6:20)
  • Beware the pitfalls of taking shortcuts! (8:20) 
  • 4 steps to help you discover your competitive advantage. (12:17)
  • Sometimes gut feelings and intuition have a lot to say - are you listening? (14:42)
  • Finding the hidden value in hardship (18:40)

Guest Bio

Yossuf Albanawi is CEO and Co-Founder of Pilleve, a digital health company focused on improving medication safety.

Personal experience drives Yossuf’s passion to find solutions for real-world problems, specifically in the areas of mental health and reducing the risk of addiction.

Yossuf earned a Bachelor’s Degree and certification in Project Management from Wake Forest University in North Carolina.

If you’d like to reach out to Yossuf you can follow him on LinkedIn at Yossuf Albanawi or, for more information on Pilleve and their mission, visit their website at

Welcome to Coiq, where you learn howhealth innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy,founder of legacy, DNA and International Beth selling author ofhow health innovators maximize market success through handed conversationswith health innovators earlier doctors and influencers you'll learn how tobring your innovation from idea to start up to market domination, and now,let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq, welcome back to Ouyq listeners ontoday's episode, I have USEF Albanawi with me. He is the CEO and cofounder ofPelive. You Sav welcome to the show good morning, Dr Oxand, thanks forhaving me it's a pleasure to be here and really excited to dive into it.Awesome I'm glad to have you here as well, so I always like to start offwith giving you an opportunity to share a little bit about your background andwhat you've been innovating these days. So we can kind of give some context forour conversation today. Thank you yeah. So, as you said, on the onthe cofounderand Cof Plive, which is digital health solution, focused on improvingmedication, safety and our first solution is a system that consists of asmart, secure pill, Bodele and mobile AP, and a Dash Board that helps preventBo pad abuse and addiction, and so we're a three year old company andright now are beginning to commercialize our device with painmanagement clinics across the US. So my background is work previously at a Rehab Center andhealthcare served on Okio Task Force in North Carolina before starting thecompany and Relly will open up. The door was first, a personal experiencethat that I had with addiction had gone through it myself when I was youngerand also experienced first hand thataffects through my work and just realize that there was a huge gapbetween prescription and addiction and although control drugs do a lot of goodand benefits to patients, they also come with unintended consequences. Sohow do we ensure that our patients are healthy and free of of a diction, anstigma? So you know, I think, that it'sinteresting, because innovators, I think, come to the you know the ideathat they're going to build something for a number of different reasons right.Some of them are technologist engineers, physicians, and so what I think is sofascinated about your story is that you've experienced the problemfirsthand. How do you think that that inpacted, your you know your strategyover the last few years? How that how that's made a difference? That's a great question. I believe that you know, first and foremost in starting any company, the passionand the Wie. The purpose, in my opinion, is so important because you knowsuccess doesn't happen overnight and you know we're three years into and Ireally believe we're still. You know scratching the surface, yeah, there'sso much that' still to come, and so have we not been grounded in ourmission. It's not just me. Everyone on the team think we're very purposeful,my cofounder and I and selecting not only ourselves being aware of who weare and what we're bringing to the team, but also the people that came next andso every one of us has a personal story h with the problem that we're solving,and you know, of course, that's not tandon deal but Qin Youo believe thatpassion and purpose is is a true driving force, at least in our company.So from from experiencing myself, Ibelieve that I was able to have a grass route lems at the problem. I think... health care. Typically, you knowleast most of the companies out there. You know startead a very high level andso a believe we started. You know at the grass roo level and worked our wayup and I think it' is interesting. I don't think one is right and all thewrong. I think it just the way it is at least in our company, but we've donereally good at filling in the gaps. So we have a you know, a large clinicaladvisor group, AL or executive team. You know has decades of experience andhealthcare and pharmacy, the clinical space, the farmaspace and so and and of course, the technology andproduct base. So as a team wevwe built a solid team, but it all started withwith a story yeah yeah, which is a great place to start. You know you know, statistically the number onereason why organizations succeed start up succeed is p because they've figuredout product market fit, and I really feel strongly that one of the majorpathways to that product market fit is starting off with the customer and ininvolving the target customers in that co creation process, and so I can seehow your personal experience and the personal experience amongst your teammade. You really close to the customer from day one, and I imagine that thatwould definitely lead to your success. Thank you. Thank you a and I willproface and save it A. I completely agree with the point about customerdiscovering, unfortunately often times its overlooked. You know when I talk toother startups Thart ar starting out, and you know it's never lets say it's never an ex for a lot of people,it's not as exciting as it should be, because it's you, you feel like you're,not really moving forward, but in reality, Yo you're, essentially savingyourself a lot of hard work and failures in the future. If you do itearly on, and so the first year actually for believe was pure customerdiscovery. My Co founder and I did not build this single thing- did not put in a dime of money until wereally felt confident t a what we were going to build was actually going to bepurposeful and and clinically used N, and so you know hopefully we'll diveinto this. But we have a you know three tromed approach in terms of our users,so you know we have several users, several customers, and so we had tospend a lot of time. You know identifying the patient and musicidentifying the physician was our main customer and then and then thepharmacist, and so you know it takes a lot of time to build that, and you know,I believe that we've we've we've done a lot in the early stages and now can youknow weat the benefits of of what we've produced yeah. I love what you're saying here, becauseeven though you and your other you know cofounder might have had firsthandexperience, whoa that's never happened. My phone just rang n didn't power. Itamoff. Let me just do that really quick, so wedon't have this happen again. So your cofounder and you had personalexperience, but I think what I'm hearing is that you said that's notenough. You know just because we have personalexperience doesn't mean that we are our perspective, is reflective of theentire target market so that you went beyond that and involved other voicesin that experience in that customer discovery process, just to make surethat you were going to build something that was going to be commerciallyviable, not just to you and your cofounder for entire target market,exactly exactly a hundred percent, and you know my co founders, Boun,cofounders names Gotham and...

...his background's in BiomedicalElectrical Engineering, so he's the product person on the team amongstmany other things. But you know that's another major thing:that's another major asset that I believe every you know start up today.You know every text start up has to have, and so you know you know and so to your pointyeah exactly it's not enough, and I think we spoke with at least a hundred physicians pharmacist patients over the course of six months and justjust spent a lot of time talking getting feedback and not looking at it from you know ortrying to eliminate as much vius. I guess out of it yeah and that's the key word right: The bias,because it's really easy to have that bias and that you know lead you downthe wrong path. So so what do you say to otherinnovators that are in the trenches right now? They're, probably at thatcrossroad of deciding O, I have a limited amount of money. I have awindow of opportunity, so you know time is a scarce resource to maybe I shouldjust circumvent this customer discovery. Co Creation Process- or you know justask one or two people and then move on because we don't have time and we don'thave money for all of that. We need to get to market. We need to start gettingpain, customers. What do you say to them? You know kind of as you're looking backandto what your experience has been and what's led you to your success today,yeah great question: It's very tempting, as you pointed out, it's very temptingto jump this process and you know I would say that it will save you a lot of time. If youdon't, if you just spend time being patient and healthcare, is you know, asyou may know, Dr Oxy is, in my opinion, is an irrational market in the sensethat it's slow and then you know at one point just picks up and so covid is agreat example. You know: We've had Tela Health for the last twenty years, but were seeing you know a huge girl sport.Why is that happening? And so I personally that a few answers you knowI don't hold the answer, but I think my view on it. I its Irverrational and ittakes time, and so, unlike other sectors where you know maybe growth andgo to you know first market advantages key in healthcare. I believe that ifyou don't take your time understanding your customers, you just going to hitit down than you won'l, be able to commercialize there's so many greatexamples, especially in our space, the medication here in space of companiesthat just thought that how great would it be to you know, getreminded one to take your med or figure out of someone it. It's a it's a greatsolution on paper, but DHORE's it rellead the needs of customers. ArePeople Willing to spend money on that clearly know: There's something therethat we're not we're, not we're missing, and so that's why we have a very uniqueadvantage in a very unique position. We're not readig an inherencs play werea preventative play, it's all about risk minigation. So that's a cear kindof need on the physician side and so they're much more eager to use us, andso it wouldn't have kind of. If we didn't spend enough time understandingthat I don't believe we would have been able to get the traction that we'regetting and so for you to be able to get their Arbe to believe you need toput in the work early on and and and talk to as many customersas possible and then pisit. You know it also allows you to Pivit. If yourealize six months into it, you know, I don't think, there's a Business Mobilin it and you know you didn't, spend a lot of money even spend a lot of timeand then finally, you know get a cofounder. I really believe that in healthcare that the team, the teamis so important, especially like that it's so crucial to have a diverse teamof skill sets and background and get...

...get advisors as early as possible. I'm not in any way health care veteran.You know, especially before starting Pelif, I'm a very quick learner. That'sfor sure both my co founder. I prode ourselves with that, and I I think thathas helped us trom customer discovery, but I really believe that if we didn'thave the mentories that we did urly on, I was being mentore by you know a verywell known, phormacologist and a researcher in the addiction space.While I was awake forest and you know had had Dr Yohanas not been there in the early stages, itwould have been much harder and so find the mentor and find the advisors aseardy as possibility be surprised by the amount of people and healthcarethat are willing to support new endeavors. It's a great space yeah well,and I want to go back to something that you said that I you know just kind ofwant to shed a little light on to and have you go deeper? What I hear you'resaying is: not only did the customer discovery allow, you to, you know, becloser to the customer, an making sure that you were building something thatthey wanted and they need and who's willing to pay for that, whichobviously is extremely critical, but also it sounds like you discovered yourcompetitive advantage, because to what you were saying, the medicationadherents you know, technology market is is very gosh. It'sI don't know if I would say saturated, but they're kind of a dimea dozen, andso it would be really easy for you to come out. Do all that work with a metuproduct, but through this process you were able to figure out where you couldserve a. where could you meet a need and underserve part of the market? AndI would imagine that that's you know definitely leading to your success.Yeah Yeah, you know, you said I believe it's actually a graveyard. Unfortunately, there's probably one ortwo companies that are pioneering and so yeah. I agree great stuff out there that no one'susing, but to your point you know we have alot of assumptions yeah. I would say: Maybe ssixty percent of those assomtassumptions were disproved and then the forty percent were like owe wrong to something. Let's you know, and so I think it's a balance right,you look, most founders will have a gut feeling and I think that that you knowthat is innate in a lot of founders and so follow your gup. Follow yourintuition. Don't second guess yourself too many times, but but the you have anevidence. Bace approach, yeah starting a companyes, is in my opinion, is likea scientific research. You know you have sertof assumptions and you'retrying to either prove them or discroup, idealy, disproves them and and ifthey're not disprove, then please you can say that yeah. You know I've done.I've done my research and it's VAT it and I really believe investors willlook for that. You know, eventually, you will get asked a question, and so,if you don't do the hard work early on you're trying to fund raise right now-and you don't have these assumptions figure it out where you know it's justgoing to be very, very difficult, Yeah Yep. So, let's Ge, I think you have avery interesting story on how you found your cofounder. So tell us a little bit about that yeah! So gothm and I were not childhood friends.Woe'd, not you know, meet in Paalto or start a compin, a garage. It wasactually a coffee show, but it's very interesting, I think it'svery unique Yoah. I come up with idea behind pleivein in my Senor Year of college and you nowI'm not an engineer, I'm not a developer. Like I said I was just reallypassionate about it and I was actually going into trying topursue law school and you know. Luckily,...

...after working with a lot of Moris overthe last three years, I can say that I don't regret that decision and so decided that in summer thesummer of my graduation, I wanted to pursue a police full time, and soluckily, Duke University was very close to awakeas only an hour and a halfdrive, and you know I decided to make a few tripsout to some universities that had really good engineering, an an tachtech schools, and so duke was one of them. I printed out a bunch of ugly looking flyers that werehaphazardly made, but they you know they did the job Gean, and you know youknow, as was looking for engineers, and so the this is something that I learntin one of my one of my courses. It's called Dav in switch, so you have, youknow something attractive, offer and then hopefully get that person to thetable and then show them. You know try to guide them into intothe better one Ideid yeah, and so it had gone to Duke and then postedseveral flyers, and one of them was in a coffee shop there and my cofounder Gotham at that point wasteaching an engineering course for high school ters, and so he was on campus.Probably probably the only person on campus because it was dad O, is betweenSumber One and two long story short. He passes by the coffee shop. He doesn'tdrink, coffeehe's, not a coffee, drinker he never passed by that coffeeshop, but that day he wanted to. I think, get something for these kids.You know at the coffee shop and with Soli Flyer took a picture of itand then left, and so he came back that same day. Just to you know, check offon it to see Wi so there it would it it been taken down by the I guess, thecolme shop owners so had he not. You know taken that picture.You know who knows so. You know we're. You know that just that experienceshows just like the values that we have as founders and as a team, where veryspiritual we you know believe in believe in fate. We believe thatcertain things happen. You just have to go with your gut, go with yourintuition and seeit through, and so he texted me we I drove back up. I thinktwo weeks later met a met out a coffee shop. He hadsome tea. I had some coffee, I'm a big coffee, drinker and, and then that was when he shared hisexperience with diction his family members on some of his family membershave gone through it and actually some lost lost their lives to it, and sothat really resonated with me and and just felt like we had a vulnerablemoment and- and you know at that point in time a I feel like we jusconnectedand you know from there, you don't meet a person and then decideto start a company with a ARANDOF person, but but I guess it just workedout for US absolutely yeah. That's great. I think that that's probably a storythat you'll tell for many years to come: Yeah, hey it's Dr Roxy, here with aquick break from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves youneed to make to survive and thrive in the new covid economy? I want everyhealth innovator to find their most viable and profitable Tivit Strategie,which is why I created he covid proof your business to the kid. The pivot kitis a step by step framework that helps you find your best divid strategy. Itwalks you through six categories. You need to examine for a three hundred andsixty degree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot linses,as you make your way through this comprehensive kid, you'll be armed withthe tools, chips and strategies you need to make sure you can pivot withspeed without missing out on critical details and opportunities, learn moreat legacy. Tythan DNACOM BACKSLA kid.

So when you think about where you aretoday and kind of in comparison to thatcoffee shop encounter. What's this ride been like these last three years? Well, it's been crazy. I mean we'velived in four different cities across both coasts. We've moved, we ble packedup our bag six months after meeting each other move to DC part of afellowship program. alled Halsean, based in Georgetown, is for socialintreprinners and moved to Boston, to mass challenge, then five hundredstartups in San Francisco and then back to DC, and so it's been a crazy journey.You know, and I believe that, unfortunately we don't talk enoughabout the downs, because it's not just you know it's Nall just success. I think most of the Tyte's ninetypercent or my opinion. It's nine percent small failures and then thatleads to success, and so we highlight the success park, but not enough on theon the HARDSHIPA. So you we had to make up, make a lot of sacrifices, but butit pays off and and and so over the last few years you know-We've grown the team to plus our mine as twenty right now, and so it's notit's not anymore. Just me and Gothham, it's much bigger than that. We want tocontinue to do that overtime. My opinion as much as I can dibute myvalue to the company, the better ththane become because eventually it'snot meannon Gothem, it's a mission, it's much bigger than ourselves, yeahyeah! Absolutely you know. I completely agree with you to. I think too often, entrepreneurs think that, in order toget the right mentors the right investors, the right target customersthat they have to present a very rainbow butterfly kind of journey, wegot it all figured out. We got all the data we get all the customers, we gotall the money, kind of story and I've interviewed two hundred plusentrepreneurs, and none of them have had that story, and I'm you know,because it's just doesn't exist right. The reality is is much more complicatedand difficult, then than I think a lot ofus tend to admit and there's so muchdiscouragement along the way. So what are some of the things thatyou've done to stay encouraged over the years yeah? You know, I think, two things. Ibelieve that you have doubt that inner you have toalways look inwards when you're going through a tough tough period of time.You know, for example, over the last few years, I think atevery year there was a major crossroad, at least one major crossrord, an thatthe honesty, the death of us as a company think the first car was, let's say, the lack of traction.Healthcare is very, very slow. It takes a lot of time where newcomers, how do you get people to believe in you?How do you get people to to try? You know to take a, I guess,take a risk, a leap of faith, and so in the beginning it was very littletraction, and so you know tryd to look inwards and and just think about why we evenstarted this. I would stay second year, coafounder relations. You know we'veknown each other for a year plus yeah. Still in this journey woul we have iteven gotten started and there's a lot of pressure. You knowI moved to San Franciisco to fandres. Gotham was here in DC and so six hourdifference a lot of things being lost in communication, and it was just usand maybe a mother person, but Mostye... so we're literally you know, seeing each other every orPirtury a every day, and so, if you don't have that break, if you don'thave you know a good structure in place, it could be be very, very daunting andso had to learn new skills. NEWCOMMUNICATION skills learn to be better founders to eachother, so that was a major crossroad now early track early pilotscommercialization but sglitches product issues. You know patients going on coming onboard. Turning improving then going back to the Draton,and so you know. I think this will continue until you. You know, get to apoint where you know at least it's on autopilot and and you've figured out alot of some of the issues a that are going onwith the product or with the especially with product market fit. And so you know, I think the way we continue to move forward iswe be better team members to each other be vumerable when we have to, but also work towards being better,better people, yeah and then looking in wards. You know I had a very toughmoment about a month ago, ID lost a very close family member of mine and it's a very tough time for everyone.EAN COVID has really really changed the world, but I beedy believe that I wasable to see a silver lining in all this and there's a lot of positive thingsthat are going to come out of this, and so looking in words and just trying tostay positive and asking yourself. Why did you even start this, and so it goesback to the first point I made, which is Passon. I really believe if youdon't have that and if you're just chasing the money, the impact, therecognition, especially for first time founders-it's just not enough, and so you need to really ask yourself why you're doingthis in and if you don't have the answe, that's fine go back, you know. Do yourthing work at a normal job, you probably get paid much better eaand instabinities, and then you knowwhen you find your calling go for it. Yeah Yeah! That's great! That's reallygreat wisdom, and you know thanks for being so transparent and vulnerable,and you know I think, t that cofounder relationship is really just like amarriage right and so when things are not going well right when cash flowsnot coming in, you know, when you're experiencing all the things that youjust iterated, it would be really easy to blame the other person. It's also really easy to startquestioning of like. Is this even worth it, and am I really on to something am Iyou know or we ever going to get there? You know all of these questions thatyou tend to ask yourself as you're going through this journey, and I think that that's why we have youknow so many people that enter and so many people that don't finish thecrossline, because the this journey gives you ten husand reasons to quit. IGH Yeah. So so you know, you've learned a lot over thelast three years and you are cyou've created some momentum recently and youknow so. Let's talk about how covid has actually been a little bit of thatcatalyst or momentum for you and what are some of the highlights. That'shappening now and you know how you're successfullycommercializing polive today great question. So to start with just earlythis year we were able to find it a longer first commercial product and Hovthe right here in my hands and so we're very, very glad to finally see see itcome to forwition. It's great to you know, hold something. Hardware has itsvalue. You know, although it's a long long journey n when you're gettingthere a pleast, you can, you know...

...actually see it, engage with it andit's a great way to also get people excited. Customers invested, you knowwhen we send this device out, it really speaks for itself, and so we've got alot of good good feedback at data from the market. You know, to be honest, Idon't want to raise too much about it, but you know most of most of thefeedback that we're getting is warn. They love the ease of use, especiallyon the APPSIDE, how easy, how pate of friendly it is on the pharmacy side, it's so easy todipense in the device. It's literally the same process as they would normallydo just replacing a traditional cap with ours, and then it just lockingsleeve that locks everything in place and you know, ready to go tamporevidence and secure and safe. So this is the first piece of momentumthat push us forward were able to launch a few clinical pilots got somereally good clinical data from patients have several patients have been on it forsix plus month. Now, really the data and Continu really improving. You knowthe team, the behind the store that I'm in Ar Luery right now, working onupdating the firm, were testing out the device and improving the AP. So it's acontinuous journey, Andi being that during covid has been huge, becauseCOVD allows allowed us to do two things. First internitely weere able to it, wasan initial slowdown in our go to market strategy because,of course, with hospitals, Everyoneis peretizing, you know the the riskpopulations, so we were able to do a lot on product and and that's justone area operations our co came in was able toreally build new foundations and layers to ourd company, just created morestability, more structure necessary for future rounds of funding and expansionas well. We're able to enhance our onboardingoto calls. This is a bigpiece of it because with any type of digital health solution, you're dealingwith the patient and if you don't have the right, onboarding protocols,there's going to be a huge turm right and so and that's somethingwe realize in our first pilots. You know we had patients coming on, but alot of them were turning. Why were they training so were able to take all thisfeed back and prove it, and you know now we're seeing the benefits thatwe've an all the time that we spent doing that. So covin allows allowus todo all these things internally externally. I really believe it's thelast month has really showed what the future may look like. Tella health allowed a lot of providersto first be more comfortable, in my opinion, using technology also seeingthe benefits that it could bring right, and so a lot of people were skeptical,including myself. You know I was never a big, I would say I always feel likeas a patient going seeing a doctor. Just has this powerful has its Berks,but at the same time, during these tough moments we have to adopt, and so tell a healthcan augment that. I don't think it's a complete replacement, but it augmentsthe relationship, and so similarly, with remote, patient minoring, a big trand is moving in that direction.We're seeing increased reimbursements from public and private insurancecompanies. That shows that first inmetically necessary and second, youknow they're willing to pay for it, and so that's a big big part of it, and Ithink you know I havn. You know finallywe're able to see this and Ithink two things I think you need to do the customer discovery part you need tofigure out. I mean we always have the assumption that payers were going to bea prime customer, but again Health Camri petning is IRRATIONALN, so youwant to make sure that you're able to stay alive long enough where you canreadp some of the benefits that you know girlsmay come with, and so this isa good example. I think that it's not...

...purely like, I think, it's a mixture ofright timing as well as really understanding the market that you'replaying N and so we're heing from a lot of providersthat you know this is a tool that can really really help with the way theyprescribe control, drugs and it', not just opioids. Okay, it's just astarting point: they see the envision of world where other drugs likeGabapentin Benzadasbines, which which are like Zanex and conipans, they're,being labelled now as a signent epademic, and so we see ourselves askind of creating a standard for control, dark prescription, dispensing andmonitoring, and so yeah I mean we're. We have a number of partnerships with major hospital centers across thenation. You know, including the licks of you, dobing Onlyh, Jus, you andright now, e're rolling it out with several of their providers and and isan exciting time. You know, and and we've recently launched a newcampaign that is resulted in a lot of imbounds and and increase conversionrates. So you know, I think again, it's a mixtureof timing and and just provideus feeling more comfortable using usingthese technologies yeah. So would it give you an opportunity just to kind ofspeak to this, as we you know start to wrap up here? Is You know one of thethings that I've witnessed with covid besides the silver linings that you'retalking about with you know, reimbursement alignment and more greater adoption? Acceleratedadoption of this digital health tools is. Is that the N box is theconferences has closed as the planes have been grounded right? There's beenthis huge shift towards digital communication, and so for manyorganizations. We were already developing digital communications andcampaigns, but because there's been a huge shift,because that's almost the only channels that we have now to engage the theamount of noise and clutter is exponentially higher and made breakingthrough the noise more difficult than ever before. So what are some of thethings that you all are doing to successfully break through that noiseand get the attention of your target? Customer? That's a great question. Youknow. Over the last I would say six month wehave probably tested anywhere between ten to fifteen different types ofcampaigns, and so you know the concept of Aby tes things very big and SiliconValley, and it's they've championed it for the right reasons, because you knowit's all about Dava and I think, as a team, we have that approach e. be you knowit's not about ego, it's not about WHO's. Writing the content, iwhat role,they're playing you know at the end of the day, if it's, if nottested, you know it's, it shouldn't be used,and so we're able to do small tests to basically improve the content and track everything from you know: OpenRate Click rates reply rates, one, whether theyre warm, whether they'recold and literally the first I would saay. Youknow: Five campaigns were very cold. So to your point, there was a lot of noise.I think the timing as well you know, March to join, was very tough. You know not only Covid, but people anxiety that came with anuncertainty, and so how do you? You know? How do you essentially taking allthis information and address it and improve on your content? You know, I think it's tronl Han eor.We took what worked and we left out what didn't and so any anything youknow between subject lines to the way that we talked about televe. So right now we see believers. You know atool that essentially fits into some of...

...the team measures coming out of Covid,especially on the DA side. You know, I think, that's a big piece of it. He Dahas ease prescriptions for control drugs because they want to limit, ofcourse, the risk the exposone the patients are getting when they visitdoctors. So, as you know, a lot of painpations that are prescribed Opooids have to you know, visit the doctor every month in order to get anew reaffom and they administer anything between yeurine screens equestionnaires to basic figure out. If that patient is at risk, and so theycan't necessarily do that as much with Covid, and so there was a huge policy that we pushed out by the DA toessentially increase the these prescriptions to three months asmuch as ninety days, and so you know that may come withun intendentconsequences. So you know how do we essentially fit into that? You know we ensured that the way we talk abouttelieve fits into some of these policies. You know essentially creating moresafety, reducing the risk in that process, and you know also kind oftalking about the the the benefits of using Hor, morepatient, moneing Doi during a covid world. You know you don't have to bringthe patient back into administer. These things will do most of the automationin the backand will make sure that the patients that are at risk will be frontin center and the ones that aren't you don't have to worry about them. You canget the peace of mine and for a lot of providers wo see hundreds of patients ayear. You can't necessarily track every patient, it's just too much, and sothat's another big issue around medication, Idherent, which a lot ofcompanies have im solved for which is a noise, yeah Yo know, there's too muchdateaf being pushed out there and how oou ensure the providers act with with with as little dataaspossible in my opinion. So I think that was some of the content that we wereable to create. Yeah, that's great! So is there anything else that you wouldany wisdom, andhy lessons learned in in your last three year journey that youwould want to share with our viewers and listeners yeah? No, I first thank you R forgiving us a platform and and also creating this podcast, because you know to yourpoint: It shuds like in a genuine way, an and also stresses the importance ofbusiness model, validation, proof of concept, product market fit, especially inhealthcare. You know, because it's so hard to commercialize and it's so hardto really find product market fit because everyone points fingers. Youknow and trance company one's finger to the provider provider, ponts finger tothe pharmacist, pharmacicitit and so on and so forth. Co there's so many actors,especially in our market, where we have to adupt to every single one of them.If you're selling to a RO provider group and it's a clear path, that's adifferent story. It's much easier, but especially your npatient is not yourcustomer. It's very very tricky. So I think you know, words of wisdom is worethree years into it. We haven't, I believe, still scratch the surface.There's a long way to go, we're very excited about the future, and so it's a long journey. You know: try tosee Trotovis envision a world that you and your team sought to create and use tout as yourNorth Start and then top into resources as early as possible. You don't holdthe answers the world does, and so I guess behumble in your approach and to your point, reduce the bias ind the noiseexcellent. Well. Thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate youtaking the time to share your experience with with everyone. How canour listeners and viewers get a hold of you if they want to follow up with youafter the show yeah follow us a...

...pelivcom there's. You know you can get a bunch ofinformation about what we're doing and there's a contact us bu in where we'dlove to just hear your story get your feedback. Is it something that you'vebeen through a friend the family member has gone we'd love to just hear yourstories? That's what motivates us! That's what that's? What keeps us goingand that's our energy, that's our fuel, so you know check in and let us knowyour story and if you feel like there's someone in your network that couldbenefit from this. You know we reach out to US fire website. Wehave a contact us Buddin and go replies as quickly as possible, where a startup, let's we're, always we're always checking our in boxes. Awesome. Thankyou. So much. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy workingto bring your life changing innovation to market, and I value your time andyour attention to save kind and get the latest episodes on your mobile deviceautomatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast apt, like applepodcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciateeveryone. WHO's been sharing. The show with friends and colleagues, see you onthe next episode of coiq.

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