Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

Who's laughing now? The upside of a risky market strategy w/ Emrah Gultekin

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Being a health innovator during the COVID-19 Pandemic can be difficult — dwindling funding, shifting priorities, and challenges with getting your message to resonate with the right audience can make it seem darn near impossible.

 

But what if it isn’t? Running a lean, nimble, and focused path during any crisis, from financial to biological, can help startups remain in the game while also providing a chance to pivot their product to fulfill a current need. Or sometimes, more importantly, a future need.

 

In this episode, Emrah Gultekin, CEO of Chooch.AI discusses how his company was able to reteach its AI to read radiology scans and provide a much needed, quicker diagnostic tool to the healthcare industry during the COVID-19 crisis. Emrah’s insights include:

 

  • How crises can fuel innovation
  • How the move towards human to technology interaction forced by COVID can help accelerate the adoption of technology-based innovations
  • The importance of positioning your business horizontally so it can have options for growth, and be able to better navigate an unpredictable future
  • How rapid cycle innovation can test innovation’s boundaries in positive ways
  • Why staying lean and nimble can better position your company to survive some aspects of a crisis situation
  • How the concept of “present bias” can hinder or help an innovator in times of uncertainty

 


Guest Bio

Emrah Gultekin is an entrepreneur, innovator and the co-founder and CEO of Chooch.AI. Chooch is a Silicon Valley start-up and visual AI solution that provides fast, accurate facial authentication and object recognition for the media, advertising, banking, medical and security industries. 

 

For those who want to learn more about Chooch.AI and how they may be able to help your company, you can reach out to them at  www.chooch.ai, or email them at hello@chooch.ai

Welcome to Coiq, where you learn how health innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy, founder of Legacy DNA and international bestselling author of how health innovators maximize market success. Through candid conversations with health innovators, earlier, doctors and influencers, you'll learn how to bring your innovation from idea to start up to market domination. And now let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq. Welcome back to the show coiq listeners. On today's episode I have Emra Galtakin with me, who is the CEO for Choo ch Ai. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you very much, Dr Roxy. Really appreciate being on the show. So, you know, we were just talking a little bit how our show has shifted the conversation quite a bit in the context of covid nineteen, and so we're, you know, still being true to our mission and our purpose of helping health innovators talk about business strategies and commercialization strategy so they can get their innovations in the hands of the people that need them the most, which is really not, like, no more important today than it was, you know, a thirty days ago. But you know, most of the conversation is shifting just a little bit. We're talking more about pivoting and change and and you know, what's kind of happening in the thrust of this crisis that we're in. So before we jump into those details, just tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and what type of innovation or work you're doing. Sure, great. Yeah, we're definitely living in unprecedented times and as too, JI. What we're doing is we clone human visual intelligence into machines so that the machines can do what humans do a scale, and so we've been doing that for a while on the cloud and we recently have been putting a lot of our models on the edge as well, and some of those cases are for healthcare, and so we've been doing a lot in healthcare recently and this crisis. So we've been basically able to clone those experts vision into machines so that they can count selves or they can know what's happening in the operating room, it's going to surgical cavity, what's coming out and so for so that there's some validation there on what's happening, and plus scaling that out to to make diagnosis quicker and faster as scale. So really, you know, focused on on that, that part of ai where it's all visual, where you take the the cameras and the any type a visual content and have have the machines tag on behalf of the humans. So that's really what our company's about. We're in healthcare, we're we're also doing a lot of geospatial we do a lot of safety and security as well, and also in media and retail. So very horizontal platform that could be applied to many verticals, but healthcare is definitely one of them. Okay. So, so I think that's great because you'll kind of give us maybe a little different context in our conversation where you're not just focused on the healthcare industry but maybe have a broader perspective from as an entrepreneur and innovator really, like you said, horizontally across all verticals. So, thinking about the healthcare industry and what you're doing there, how do you think the covid crisis is impacting entrepreneurs and healthcare? Yeah, great question. I we're definitely this is unprecedented and I don't think we've seen anything like this, not even...

...nine eleven. But the what's what's negative and what's positive about this? If we put it into two different buckets, maybe talk about the negative bit. The negative impact is what we're seeing in our sephere is the closure of basically funding period from vcs and be companies, even for healthcare entrepreneurs. It's a time of uncertainty. Yeah, when vcs and and and investors really scared. So we're seeing, we're seeing that as an issue, as a negative impact. That's one of the negatives. The what we've focus on. So the positives. The positives out of this is that we see how behind in tackling these issues about it, whether it's a pandemic or it's another type of emergency. We see how unprepared we are for this. So that means opportunity for entrepreneurs. So whenever there's a crisis, it's actually accelerating some innovation. And we see that in previous crises as well, well, two thousand and eight crisis, the financial press and alsocom and previously before then, all these crisis. So what we're going to when we're seeing as a company is sort of the acceleration of the impact of ai into these different into industries and healthcare is one of them. So if we take it from a human to human interaction, so that's kind of a classical interaction between people to actually come to some sort of understanding or some sort of decision, we're seeing a move towards human to machine interaction. People are afraid to interaction. We're seeing that schooling education, we're so we're going to see in healthcare more and we're seeing it across different verticals, and so that's going to accelerate the adoption of AI. And you know, you've seen a lot of these negative things about ai over the past let's say five, five six years. I think all of those are most of those would go away as we see the positive impacts of AI. So if we had ai today, we would have be stuck in our homes promptly because we would know exactly what is happening to each person. And that doesn't mean master surveillance, it just means it twitter, like transparency of what's going on. Yeah, and to be able to test quickly, to be able to trace quickly, to be able to mitigate quickly as well. So if we know, if we know more about our communities and what what's happening in for each person, in each person. We could, we're able to, we're able to live our lives quick you know, in a normal in a normal senses of like locking everyone down. One of the issues is currently testing. These a problem, and we know from China and some of the Asian countries, is that people have testing kids at home and we don't. And so people get tested, they test themselves maybe every week. It's okay and then they go outside. If they're sick, they stay home and they're no. So we're seeing this. We're going to see this shift in the West as well for these types of things. I think for entrepreneurs it's really important to focus on some of these problems and and and and solve some of these problems right now. And this is not like it's not going to happen overnight. It's going to take years for us to develop these capabilities, but definitely that's that's one of the positive impacts I think we're seeing out of this...

...crisis. It's still early, I mean it's still very early in this crisis. We don't know how long it's going to last and what I still have on the economy whatnot. But in terms of accelerating the adoption of AI and some of these automation tools. I think we're going to see that accelerate very, very quickly. Yeah, and I think you know, based upon the context of this show and what we talked about here, is is that that is, I think, like the greatest silver lining in this terrible situation that we're facing is that I think covid nineteen is going to be a catalyst for significantly increased adoption really across it you know, ai as is, as well as a lot of connected health and digital health and remote monitoring. I think that that human to machine connection, like you just described, is is something that, you know, a lot of the population, whether it's be tob or BBC, have been opposed to or resistant to for a long time and we're all just as a society as a whole, being thrust into this kind of whether we like it or not, and I think that a lot of people will find out that they like it, like, Oh wow, I don't know why we was so resistant to this for so long. Right, right, I think I think the resistance is is kind of like it's more a habit rather than that, rather than pushing it away. But you know, this is all about efficiency at the end of it, right. I mean we're trying to be more efficient at what we do and human to human interaction is very, very important. It's important for our minds or characters are who are wellbeing. But if you're if you're creating, if you're if you're trying to do things quickly and that mass, you need the machines to help you as it's just, it's just, you know, and we can do it. We have the capability to do that today with, you know, all the cloud services and the cloud. Remember, the cloud services kind of expanded after two thousand and eight crisis. I mean it was have the cloud before then, and so now that we have this basic a cloud, it appears as though it's time for ai to, you know, to come to the picture, to stage right. That's the next it's the next stage of this. And this is a cross across vertical so healthcare is definitely one of them, and I think the one one of the issues with healthcare is it's heavily regulated and that regulation creates some time for things to be adopted quicker than other verticals. But then you have a crisis like this and you're like, okay, well, who cares like we have to get this done. Yeah, so you're seeing this now? Yeah, yeah, we are. We're seeing a lot of that. Can you think of some examples? Hmm? Well, some examples, and I don't want to get to to controversial here, but was with with the treatment drug, malaria drug, and just you know, okay, it's not a vaccine. Let people use the right where if it's working and if they're no, you know, real side effects. You know, we're not, we're not. We're not healthcare for professionals. We're not doctor. So I don't want to talk too much about that, but it's just, it's it just common sense to in a time of crisis, you do what you need to do with what you have at hand and and reduce the rent tape. Yeah, well, and I think that that's a really important, you know, topic for us to talk about as well. You know, just a few weeks ago a lot of red tape came down for tell a health a lot of legislation and regulatory obstacles were just completely removed overnight for this kind of like groundbreaking, history breaking moment. And you...

...know, it wasn't one of those things where we had to worry about people's safety or or even like the efficacy of telecat it. Really all that stuff was already there, and so that, I think that's an example of what you're describing here. So let's talk about where you are in the innovation process, just so we can kind of set the stage, you know, through the Lens of healthcare, you know, obviously it's not just an idea. So where are you in that? You've launched. How long have you launched? What does that look like? Yeah, so we launched our product to the public. We made our dashboard and our AI public. It was last March, to two thousand and nineteen, Yep, and it was it was we that our first healthcare project in September, and that was that was a combination of cell counting, so detecting cells, and microscopy and the defying the type of cell. And that is as crucial because you know, these you can machines do that, but everyone doesn't have a machine and they need to be sent to these machines. And what we're doing is we're processing on the cloud and on the microscope itself. So being able to do that real time, live was very important for biomedical researchers. So we did that for Biomedical Research Company in Sandigo and we also did a operating room action detection, so being able to understand what's happening in the surgical theater. So the surgeon come in, when is patient and when is it? When is a patient and stasized? What goes into the surgical cavity? What comes out of the surgical cavity? When is the operation stop? You know, all that kind of stuff. We are able to do on our AI and the two cameras in the operating theater. Looking at the one once overhead and it's looking right at the surgical area and the other is looking in general and need to happening in the operating room. And what it's doing is it's collecting information. So it's saying, okay, this is when ennestes is started, this is when it's stopped, this is when the surgical area was was uncovered, when what goes into the surgical cavity, what comes out of the surgical cavity to gauzes and so forth, forceps, you know, all kinds of stuff going on there, and it logs all of those actions in the database and then what happens is it sends it an alert to the people and we were affrating anomalies going on. So if an SCS was supposed to start is stop in forty five seconds and it lasted sixty seconds, it'll send such alert to the people there and say, Hey, you know, you need to there's something going on here. And it's also to to Sert to share best practices. So let's say a certain certain surgical teams doing really, really well and you want to know why they're doing so well, and so you would share that best practice with other other surgical teams as well, because it might be, you know, it might be the stroke of the surgeon and might be like this at this time. And so that's a type of stuff we're doing healthcare. And recently we just trained a public data sets for covid nineteen and we made that a public so long x rays, we're able to detect, detect lung injury instantly funds and that we made public and we gave basically free to the medical...

...world and we also waived all licensing fees to for medical researchers on our platform recently for covid nineteen, which means they can trade models very quickly and deploy them with the concept that they have. And what does that do? Helps? Let's say you're you're one person looking at radiology and now you can, you can proliferate yourself and say you're a million people looking at the same to quickly classify and identify issues. You won't. You don't do diagnosis. So they I won't do a diagnosis. They just say hey, this is this, this is in this category. It might be a lung injury, might be pneumonia, might be something else, but then you can classify them and make sure that the people who need urgent care are taking care of very quickly. So these are the types of here. So so let's kind of just pause and talk about that for a minute. Being able to pivot your product strategy and reframe it in a way that solves a, you know, a problem that we have in healthcare of that we didn't have thirty days ago. What was that like? help us understand you know. When did you have you know? What was it like? When did you have this Eureka moment like, oh my goodness, I think we have an opportunity here, here's the need, here's how we could solve it, here's how we could adapt our solution to contribute to this healthcare issue that we're all facing, right. Yeah, so we took a strategic decision at the beginning of the company to make sure that our ai was horizontal enough so that it could be used in different fields. Yeah, it was the strategic decision we made, despite a lot of people telling us to focus just on one area. And we did that on purpose because we're unsure about the future, right, not just the markets, but also, like, just socially, and I also a company. You don't want to put everything into one basketot m. and so we did that initially. And what happened was when the covid think we had some healthcare use cases and since we're able to use any type of imagery to do visual aid, it didn't matter if its radiology or for red or even synthetic aperture radar, it doesn't really matter. You able to train the AI to understand what's happening in those images instantly. So we said, Hey, you know, this is you know we were thinking of Doing Radiology, but you know, this is an opportunity for us to actually trained Anion Radiology. And so we look for a public data sets and people have been working on pneumonia. And Yeah, years now. And but you know, training and AI is is very, very special. You it's you need to have a need to have a system there in place. So we have a system there. We took publicly availabled data sets. One was from cagual and and and another one was also a publicly available one. We took that, those data sets, which were like six thousand images of lung x rays that were already labeled, as you know, pneumonia or not pneumonia, and we put that into the system and we trained our AI to recognize that and it happened. It happened instantly and then we say, Hey, it's working and we we also tested it with with with with our medical colleagues, and it was working to certain degree, and so we made it public to people. I mean it's it was just and it was over a weekend before the lockdown. I got a call. I got a call from my CTO and I see said a...

I we got to do something here. So that's, you know, I think the heart of you know, what I think is most valuable for our listeners is is that, you know, we're seeing rapid cycle innovation be, you know, tested. Writing. Even what we thought might have been rabbit cycle innovation previously is being tested of like the boundaries of can we just innovate in a weekend? Yes, yes, so it was like, you know, I seeto's girlfriend and she was like, Hey, you got to do you guys got to do something here. You know, this is you got to do something for humanity. Wasn't for the company. It's like, you know, we're fine as a company, but you know, you got to do something and then see too, is it okay? Let's let's look for some public data sets and we'll train them, and it would happen instantly, over a week. And it was one Saturday, because you're using AI. So we don't want it. Why not? Why not do it? Why not help these people and demonstrate, demonstrate that it's it's you're able to do it, that we are able to do it. We are able to do it as humans. We have the technology here today and we just need to make sure it's distributed properly. So we did that and we show it to the world and we launched the site. I think it was Monday. It's a covid nineteen response and we've been getting very, very good response from from medical people and it's pretty incredible the speed of how we were able to take that those data sets, trained them and then deploy them in the marketing. Hey, it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Do you want your innovation to succeed, to change lives, to shape the future of healthcare? I want that for every health innovator, which is why I invented Cyq and evidence based framework to take your innovation from an idea to start up to full market adoption. If you're not sure where you are in the commercialization process, take the free assessment now at Dr Roxycom. backslash score. Don't miss out on impacting more lives just because you have a low co IQ score. The Free Assessment is at Dr Roxycom backslash score. That's Dr Roxiecom backslash score. And now let's jump back into the conversation. So let's kind of go back a little bit. I want to dig deeper into what you're talking about now, but I want to go back a little bit to something that you mentioned earlier around, you know, talking about how is covid impacting your business, and you talked about, you know, the financial piece. So is isn't your experience where in investors of just completely put the brakes on? Are Are they looking at opportunities, you know, just through a different Lens, or is it like there's just so much uncertainty we're not doing anything right now until we wait and see what happens? For so for us, we raise the around in December and we're lucky because we're very lead company and we'renmble and we we're horzontally integrated into different verticals. So we don't have our eggs in one basket. But, having said that, I mean there is a shift in the way investors think about investing right now, and we're stilicon value company. So that's why I'm asking you, because you know, kind of in the hub right so what are you hearing? What's happening? We with so what you hear and what's really happening are two different things. So what we're hearing is, you know, it's business as usual, but in fact what's happening is there's there's a shift in the way investors are thinking about...

...these investments and the efficacy of these investments, and I think it's going back to basics, like you know, like it needs to be a real business and not just an idea. Seeing that a bit. But I think what what's happening in the investment world is people are are are triaging their their current portfolios and making sure that they're healthy and we have value. People are making sure that their their current companies are are going to survive this, and so there's a lot of focus on that today. So, but new investments, I think people are just trying to understand where this is going to lead and definitely they're going to be opportunities coming out of this. I think I just don't think that we know where they are right now and I don't think the investment community does either. So focused focus on their current portfolios make sure that they are surviving and thriving during this period, and then new investments, I don't think, you know, they're probably what we're what we're feeling is that new investments are are they're going to take their time to make those decisions now rather than jump on jump on a train. Yep. So one of the things that I was reading about recently was that investors were looking for businesses that were covid proof and, you know, so those that were able to to survive this crisis. Are really interesting is that horizontal strategy that you took, which you know, doesn't necessarily guarantee a covid proof business, but it's not a bad strategy to, you know, go, okay, so the travel industry is not working right now, but we've got these other verticals that are like exploding, so let's, you know, make some magic happen here. That's right. That's right. So there are two things right. And we come from a very hard business background and we're not, we're not born and raised in Silicon Valley. Yeah, you know, we come from another country where immigrants, you know, zero generation immigrants to the US. So it was it's always like he don't put all your eggs in one basket type of thing, and that's why we took a horizontal approach to Ai, to visually I it, and we took a lot of, you know, heat for that initially, and that was that was an issue. I we didn't back off from it because we just realize that, you know, this is if we can, if we could count cells and microscopy, you can also count assets from satellite imagery. It's the same thing for us. So why not? Why not say yes, if someone comes along and says you can do this, yes, we can. I mean it's yeah. And the second thing was being lean as a startup is really crucial as well. I mean being a Lowburn, having runway to survive these types of things is really crucial as well. So we didn't raise that much money. We had a lean team where about twenty, only six in the US and and then we have a two in Turkey, we have one in London and we have eleven full time engineers in India. So we created a lean and global team that could work remotely for us. I mean we're remote already. So nothing really changed right. And our burn is our burn is very low compared to our competitors. I'd say our nearest competitor has a five to seven times more burn than we do. And so raising a lot of money was you know, that's that's a that's that's a blessing and a curse at the same time. It's a curse when these things happen, because you already have like a hundred employees or two hundred employees and you need to you know, triage and make sure that you survived this and then you're also reliant on those employees to create business...

...right, or to create the product, you know, or refrain. Yeah, you can't really do that much with it. So those are the two things. One was keep it horizontal. They'll put everything into into one basket, and then to have a long runway, be very lean and nimble as a team, try and do everything internally. Take may you may take a long, longer time to do it may not be a hundred percent perfect. Yeah, but if you if you get to ninety five percent or ninety percent, it's good enough for people to use. And that's really the the strategy we took and we've been very lucky with that and I think we kind of lucked out with this, with this, with this crisis, because it showed that we can survive and a lot of our competitors may not be able and may not be in the same position. Yeah, so let's just talk about that a little bit. You know, from my perspective, you know it's the ideal and you know we kind of have the reality and ideal. The ideal is an eighteen to twenty four month runway, so that way you don't have to worry about funding and you can really focus on the business but that's the ideal. That's not the reality that a lot of people I talked to with with you know, what do you think? You know, again, just kind of thinking about our listeners that are in the trenches right now. I mean, is there even you know, like if you only have three months of runway left? You know, what do you do now in the covid crisis, versus, you know, when you know you had all these plans to raise money and all these different pitch competitions that were all these conferences that no longer exist, completely dried up overnight. You know, what's what's the how do you triage that versus somebody that has a much you know, whether they didn't predict this was going to happen, but they just luckily, are more prepared with a longer runway? Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't think nobody knew this was gonna happen. No, no, you were doing your Swat and nobody put like paint glow the cut section. It's a it's a Black Swan, totally black swan event. So, yeah, no one's prepared for this. Yeah, but what what we would do is we would do two things right, and we've done this in the past because we've been in a similar position in terms of not being with the raise money or, you know, not having a traction or, you know, just having some issues. We'd hunkered down and focus internally, just decrease our cost as much as possible. Yeah, hunker down, focus on the product and the clients that we currently have. So that's what we do. That's number one. Number two, we reach out to whoever's invested in us in the past and say, Hey, you know, we're in this position, and usually what happens is if they're angel investors, they can help, if their VC's they can help as well. You know, we had the same situation where, you know, we had our investors call us up whenever when this started. They were like hey, you guys okay, if you're not okay, great, let us know and we'll and will help. Will help you guys out. So two things. Hunkered down, focus, decreased costs, hundred down. Go back to your current investors and say, Hey, we're in this position. Be Very open about it and say hey, we need, you know, this amount of money by this time and just be very, very open. Do Not hide the problem. Yeah, yeah, well,...

...the more you hide it the worst it gets and people don't appreciate like if you're out of money in like ten days and then you're like, oh, I need money, not in any situation soon. No, no, just just say, Hey, we've got this issue, we're going to run out two months or three months and we need, you know, x amount of money. To be very open about it. Just do an email blast, call people up. If you have investors. Yeah, if you're if you boots, if you have boots trapped, it's a different it's going to be a difficult game. I just go back to basics and you can still ping people and pitch. I think people open to that. You might be surprised as well. I mean we've had some investors reach out because remember the the investment community still needs to deploy money right, right, right, exactly. They just want to make sure that. Yeah, so when they're reaching out to you and Ra are they reaching out to you because they, you know, kind of know that. Know, you already know that. Yeah, like Horse, I'm sorry for horizontally focused. Or did they get win that you have some type of covid solution? So it makes it a little bit more not necessarily certain, but maybe a little bit more viable for them. Yeah, they a lot of these people they've known us from the past. So we've reached out. So I was on a panel the other day and it was about fund raising. Yeah, it took it. They asked, like how long did it take you to raise your first round, and it was like it took us two years. How many ring yeah, and that was when the economy was booming. And they're like how many investages you talk to? Will over three hundred? Yeah, over three hundred investors. So a lot of the a lot of these people already know us to some degree and they're reaching back out and like where we're picking them and like keeping our relationships up, and that's really key as well, to have to be able to do that. But having Covid covid proof, as you mentioned, is important. But we don't know what that is really right. I mean it could be, you know, airlines are down, but like the restaurants are down to and so it might be utilities are down in a month because you know, or something else. So we don't know where this is going to go. If you do, I think you do, but I guess anything is possible, right. Well, we know we know that the cloud companies are up right, right, right exactly. Stock is up, yeah, clouds, streaming, these are up. Yeah. So so it's it's too late. It's too late. I mean it's it's too late to do something for Covid if you want to pivot. What you need, what I think what we need to do is focus on on more, on more horror zontal products. That will be that will be proof to anything in the future going forward, and that's really it's. You know, today's a pandemic, tomorrow to financial crisis. Next year it might be, you know, an earthquake, wildfire here, you know, whatever it's, there's always something going on. So you need to have these these these these strategies built out early. If you're focusing on covid right now, it's probably too late to do that. So, you know, it's in say that because I cannot tell you how many I'm how many innovators I'm speaking to like you, where it's not like they were like so early in the innovation process that they just had an...

...idea. But I'm I'm just really surprised at how many are able to pivot. And you know, over a weekend, over a week over two weeks and come up with a solution. And it's not something like hey, you know, let's figure out how we can just make some more money and sell some stuff. You know, it's but, you know, to keep the lights on. It's not that at all. It's more of like you described, where the and there's this new need or this hot new priority that we weren't maybe we're on our radar before. And and now let's turn this on a dime and in see if we can't really help and solve problems. And in it's remarkable the size of the company, how flexible and Nimble health innovative are to actually pivot where it's like, whether it's like a true business pivot. It may not be like their business model completely change, but there's some pivoting happening and it's, you know, to me that's also part of what's exciting right now, right. Yeah, I mean these innovation happens in sprints. Yeah, and needs to be pushed like. It doesn't happen by itself. I mean this is not like the the universe is an entropie. So if you let it go, it's going to go to, you know, nowhere. So it needs to be an easy to be triggered by things and and and these prices trigger that innovation and people start to work on them. So these sprints happen. I mean you see this in the past. Historically it's always been that way as well. I mean, it doesn't happen over. What happens during during period is in innovation. Science happens during during a that that that's that's that's fairly stable and it happens, you know, in pretty much in a linear way. But distribution engineering, that happens in real sprints, and that's what we're seeing today. It's just like, you know, people pivoting, as you say, companies say, okay, we got to solve this problem uncored down. You do your sprint and make them make it happen, and people working like, you know, they've never worked before, like two seven right now. Yeah, to solve some of these problems, and we haven't really seen that. I think right time it's really incredible the rattling that's happening. I think that, you know, I don't know if it's because we have so much time on our extra time on our hands. We know we don't maybe don't have as many distractions as we had before, like the you know, there's not as much entertainment, like outside entertainment, on the calendars. So I've got some free time, why don't I just create something? But you're right, there's a lot of that happening. We're just seeing people come together in solve problems in a real deep, committed way. Yeah, yeah, it's focus as well. I mean, what's on mind happens on paper. So you know when you're when you're focused on something, you're thinking about it all day long and your you'll you have an expertise in your own domain and like how do I how do I put that together and make something happen? You're focused and you really genuinely want to do something and help this problem out, and you also want to save your company or make sure that you're company tribes during this period to of failing. Right. All that, all that whole combination makes people work very, very hard. It's it's it's fight for it's your fighting for your survivor bival. Yeah, and that survival instinct creates a lot of strange innovation and sprints. You weren't able to do in years you can do in weeks and I think that's that's that's sort of the good that's coming out of this. Yeah, and...

...yeah, if we focus on the positive aspects of it, lots of negative. I mean people are dying, people are getting sick, it's it's a tragedy. It's a huge tragedy for humanity. But on the other hand you have people trying to solve it and and and innovate and so that, I think, that's going to make us better in the future and create better externalities for everybody to thrive on. So the last question that I have for you, Emra, is. We were talking earlier and you mentioned present bias. I'll talk about that a little bit for our listeners. What is present bias? So present biases is is is an economic construct. Actually it's you spend today, you think a dollar today is is more valuable than a dollar tomorrow. So, and that's how I started economics. But it's also a social construct as well. So we think that today, or our current situation is will last longer than it is. And that is when, even in failure or in success. So you think you're you think you've failed, and you know we have this problem now. We failed as as a civilization. Right now that's how we feel. Yeah, we think that that failure is constant, and that's what present biases is like. You know, we think the situation is going to last and and then, because you're in a state, that's that's how the human mind works. It's you're in the state and you think that the state is going to last longer than actually does. And it's success as well. You know, when you when you succeed in something, you think, Oh, I've done it, and you know that success is going to last as well. That's that's what present present biases and we it's very hard to get out of that mindset. We're humans, you know, we're social animals, and we have we we judge things based on right now, actually very present, and so it's hard. It's hard to think about these days will pass. I mean we're going to reach a new equilibrium and whether that's like how does that present bias either hurt or help an innovator right now, in this moment? Well, if you, if you it's so to say, how how it hurts it. How to hurts innovator is if you if you get discouraged because of the situation and you think, you know, this is the end of the world. I mean a lot of people do believe that right now this is the beginning of the end, and that's not the case. I mean, that's not happening because we have this present bias, and so you get discursion, not do anything very you know it'll affect everything, your whole life, your domestic year. YEA, here I'm not going to do anything. I'm just going to wait and see what happens. I'm just going to sit on the sidelines and just wait and see. And meanwhile that that nondecision is a decision and your business is just crumbling to exactly exactly and and and how it how it? How it helps is you think you know this is you're like, holy you know, Moldy, this is like you know this is the this is the ultimate problem, and let's let's work on a focus on it. So that also helps, because you're like hey, you also think that this is going to last longer, or you know we're not going to reach equilibrium, and it's all about reaching equilibrium. Remember, after nine eleven flights for canceled and so forth, but we're flights canceled forever. No, right, you up, up, you, you up. The security and you reach a new equilibrium, and this will you. We will reach a new equilibrium here as well. We don't know...

...what that will look like exactly, but we will and and that's we'll get. Well, get over this pump in a way, in one way or another. Yeah, yeah, well, I think that's a just a great you know, ending comment for for our listeners is that you know, you know, our audience is dedicated to healthcare innovation and most of those people are rebels, change makers, pioneers like you, who want to change the world and want to shape the future of healthcare. And there's no greater meaning and purpose than if you can contribute in some small way to being able to shape the future of health care, making it a better place in some former fashion during this crisis right now. Absolutely, I mean we're on the same boat here and we need to help each other, we need to support each other. It's time for Solid Art, solidarity. Yeah, time for panic? Yeah, not, time for discourage. Meant, it's time to innovate. This is an opportunity for all of us to shape up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today. I think it's going to be just incredibly beneficial to our listeners. And so, before we wrap up, how can folks get ahold of you if they want to connect with you about the chooch solution or just about anything that we talked about today? Yeah, great conversation. They can find us at the WEWCHO DOT AI. Hello at CHOOCH DOT AI. They can get in touch with us. We're willing to help anybody in this field deploy ai for their specific use cases, whether that's healthcare or any other vertical and you know, will will support them in deploying these and training the AI and making sure that they can they can make their companies more efficient and make their processes more efficient with with the help of visual Ai. So, hello at choose DOT AI. Get in touch with us. We'd love to support what you guys are doing. Excellent. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market and I value your time and your attention. To save time and get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who's been sharing the show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Coiq.

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