Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 116 · 4 months ago

The single most important factor when bringing an innovation to market w/ Warren Schirtzinger


When it comes to our target audience, we think we know exactly what they want - but do we really? Or are we making assumptions based on past behavior?

This may seem like a simple fix but the habit can be hard to break. And when 95% of all innovations fail, that leaves very little room for error.

Warren Schirtzinger has been able to break that habit - and he’s dishing out some major strategies on how to increase your chances of having your innovation adopted!

Warren talks about assumptions and past behavior, understanding who the adopters (and innovators) are in the adoption cycle, and even the balance of benefit/cost.

There’s a lot to unpack in this episode. And we’re planning on more with Warren, so get in on the first show and get ready to shore up your innovation adoption strategies so you can increase your chances of success.

Here are the show highlights:

  • Adoption of innovation and risk evaluation (6:31)
  • This is why 95% of all innovations fail (8:40)
  • Electric vehicles vs. COVID vaccinations - don’t make assumptions (17:09)
  • Understanding who the innovators and adopters are (20:09)
  • Identifying the magic in word-of-mouth (28:42)
  • For every benefit an innovation brings, there’s a cost (33:00)  

Guest Bio

Warren Schirtzinger likes to refer to himself as the “luckiest business person alive” - and he very well may be!

Currently the Managing Partner at High Tech Strategies, he has also built a long and successful career as a strategic advisor, VP of Sales and Marketing. Warren has also made significant contributions to emerging high-tech companies: Apple, Adobe, Harman International, Intermec, and many others.

Warren has also built a successful customer alignment process and experience that helps entrepreneurs, CEOs and product leaders align their business activities with people who are motivated to buy.

If you’d like to learn more about Warren and his system, or reach out to him, visit or find him on LinkedIn at Warren Schirtzinger.

You're listening to health innovators, a podcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adopters who are shaping the future of healthcare. I'm your host, Dr Roxy Movie. Welcome back to the show health innovators. On today's episode I'm Sitting Down with Warren shirt singer, who is the managing partner at High Tech Strategies. Welcome to the show, Warren. I Dr Roxy, it's good to see you again. Yes, it's good to have you here today. So I always like to start off each episode by giving our audience a little bit of understanding about your background and what you've been up to these days. Yep, absolutely so. I I work on what I call both sides of the Innovation Coin, so I've had the chance to take and commercialize a lot of interesting innovations. So I you. I introduced the very first rugged FTIR sensor for quality control and I did the very first computerized post geography system for balanced disorders, and I did the very first digital audio workstation in radio broadcast and the first hybrid venture capital, you know fun I did the Lauren. Yeah, you know, the list goes on on. I did the first augmented reality for Marine navigation and the you know, the first vibration control for electronic vibration control for automobiles and the first and now, of course, the one that is really exciting is it's the first wearable device for peripheral edema. It been measures ankle swelling. So that's one side of the coin. I, you know, lots and lots of commercialization work, but I also have, on the other side, been doing what I call framework or model development, and that's just because my grandfather worked with Everett Rodgers at Ohio state when diffusion of innovations was being developed. So I got to, you know, learn all about innovation adoption growing up. But then I was hired to help update that model and it became the technology adoption life cycle. And then we, my colleague and I, updated it again and it became the chasm and we gave actually our chasm model to a writer. His name is Jeff Moore, and he wrote the book crossing the Chasm. And then since crossing the chasm, I've developed two other models. One is called the low risk recipe. The other is the customer Alignment Life Cycle. So you know, I do frameworks, but I also do direct commercialization of what I call meaning full innovations. What an incredible legacy that your grandfather has left for you and you had. I mean, who could imagine that how your career would be jump started and catalyzed by your grandfather and that your they talked about following in someone's footsteps. You know, there must be something that's in my DNA that just draws me to these new innovations and I engage and actually get to manage their commercialization. Incredible. I'm very, very excited to speak to you today. I'm always excited to speak to all of my guests, but we are definitely kindred spirits. So for our audience that don't know whoever it is, who is Everett? And what is the diffusion of innovation model or framework you're talking about? Yep, absolutely so. Most people have come across a bell curve and a term called early adopter, and it's one of five of...

...the categories. But it it's a model that describes how people react when they are presented with a new innovation. And for every new innovation, and and this is this is an important, you know, kind of distinction or nuance is it's really the application of a technology or an advace innovation, not the technology itself. So you know, when someone is presented with something new, they self select on this curve. They decide based on, you know, their risk profile or their comfort level. Where am I going to go in terms of accepting and using this new thing? Do I want to be first? Do I want to be absolutely first in line? Do I want to maybe be second, or do I want to be in the middle? Or don't want to see a thousand other people use it first and then maybe all say yes five years from now? But people that using a flat phone, right, right, Yep. So every every, every person, for every application of a technology, they self select on the curve, decide when they're going to accept it. And it's you know, it was developed by studying farmers. Ever, Rogers come, comes from Iowa. He he studied corn farmers in in Iowa. And and what year? And that that was in the s. That was in the you know, I think five, five hundred fifty six. He became a professor of Ohio State and fifty seven and he published diffusion of innovations in one thousand nine hundred and sixty two. So around file. It's been around a while, but it is so fast, abulous how repeatable and useful that framework is. It it's a system that really shows you how people are going to either step back or step up when you present something new to them. And it's it's not necessarily just a technology. It could be an idea, a concept, a business model. There are all these different types of things that are just new and they're considered an innovation. So it doesn't have to be a technology. And diffusion of innovations does a magnificent job of characterizing how that innovation is accepted by a population or a market. So I know there's someone in our audience that is thinking this. They probably won't admit it, but they're thinking this. That probably works fantastic and all those other verticals. But does that really work in healthcare? To Yeah, oh absolutely. And and again, the the determining factor really is how comfortable someone is with risk. So it really if you're selling or you're trying to commercialize a new car or a new healthcare innovation, it doesn't matter. People will will evaluate the risk of adopting and and that's why it's got such, you know, fabulous, you know flexibility and the way it can be applied is every time someone encounters something new, there is a an element of risk to be evaluated and that's why it's so translatable across all of these industries. And you think about all the industries that I mentioned right when we first started. You know it's industrial automation, its healthcare, it's marine navigation,...'s digital for radio broadcast. It's even venture capital, a new venture capital model. You know, it's education, you name it. If there's a new innovation, it represents risk. People decide how they want to accept it or not and when and what's required before they say yes, and so it's translatable anywhere. It's that that's why I love it. I love it too, and I talked about this a lot and a lot of the content a lot of episodes on the show, probably not to the depth depth that we're going to go into today, because you are so well versed in this framework and in this model. I definitely want to take advantage of this opportunity to go deeper for our audience. But one of the questions that comes to mind issh Warren, if this model has been published since the s right and I have had hundreds and hundreds of innovators come on this show and talk about their commercialization journey and not one of them has built their commercialization strategy on the diffusion of innovation model. Yes, as well, as none of the clients that I've ever worked with brought the diffusion of innovation model to me. It was always something that I was bringing to them, right and and I know that you have similar experience. Yep. What, where is the breakdown? Why aren't we seeing more innovators, more inventors, leverage this model and framework to maximize their success? Yep. Well, so you you've just articulated the reason that ninety five percent of all products fail. It is is because, you know, founders are not paying attention to the way that, you know, the the use, the end user, the buyer, the customer. They're not paying attention to how they react to a new innovation. They're not paying attention to what's the sequence of adopter types and what why is it a model that is proven is not being used? Is actually quite a mystery and it's almost kind of a tragedy to if you think about all of the resources that are wasted, when you think about ninety five percent failure rate, think of the time, the money that you know that that is is going nowhere. And you know, I don't know why I you know, I don't want to sound overly pessimistic here, but I think part of diffusion of innovations and the innovation adoption curve. You know, it requires you to do a lot of reinvention. If you think about it, you start out you serve innovators, then you have to reinvent what you're doing and then you serve early adopters, then you reinvent what you're doing and you serve the mainstream early majority. So it's constant reinvention. It's not necessarily, you know, straightforward easy. It's not a slam dunk and I actually think a lot of, unfortunately, founders are looking for shortcuts and don't they don't want to do the hard work. Yeah, and I'm right. It takes time to build out five different go to market strategies. It does fine, Oh, absolutely. And and to just always monitor. Where are you? Okay? So you know...

...if you're currently serving early adopters and use and you need to now change your go to market for the mainstream, wow, is that a big change? So it and it and it essentially has implications across your business. All of your your business disciplines change, not just the product. And you know it's a lot and it's it's maybe that's why. You know, I had someone who recently graduated from Harvard in their MBA program and he said they have quit taught. They have quit teaching diffusion of innovations in Harvard business school. They've stopped. And I am I'm devastated right, mind blowing to me why you would rich sin sin would be turning over in his grave right now. Wow, yes, so, so I was. I was actually horrified, you know, because it's, you know, all all of these commercialization things that I've been through. I use it religiously. You'll the success rate is sky high. It's well over ninety percent success. Why wouldn't you follow this model? You know? So I don't know. Yeah, yeah, Uh Huh. We can probably talk the whole episode, the record of the episode, about this, but I won't Belabor the issue. I think you've made the point and I completely agree with you. So I want to you know, going back to this failure rate. Right, I preach about this failure rate because it keeps me up at night. Right, you know, we're spending, true, pouring trillions of dollars into healthcare innovation. Lives are at state, quality of life is at stake. It's such an important thing and in the fact that ninety five percent fail is just so disturbing. So when you think about what's happening in the market place, what are we still missing? Yep, Yep, that is preventing us from changing that success rate or from driving adoption. Yep, absolutely all right. So the number one thing that I think is being missed? Maybe I'll answer this is a two part thing. But to start with it's too much focus on the technology and not enough focus on the application. So you like, a lot of times I'll hear someone say, well, artificial intelligence is about ready to move into the mainstream. Well, well, that's that's a miss that's a misinterpretation, because the the innovation adoption process is not about artificial intelligence, it's about the use of artificial intelligence. So so the correct statement would be artificial intelligence for cancer diagnosis would is moving into the mainstream. So so I and I again I want to try to remain, you know, positive, but there's so much attention paid to the technology when the actual commercialization process, the adoption process, is based on an application not on a technology or platform. And you know who. It's like. Tell a medicine. You don't want to you don't want to go out and talk about tell a medicine. You want to talk about how it's applied. And many times that's in a small area or a small...

...application or a niche or a use case. And the thing that makes this more difficult is you've got this thing called the hype cycle. Oh, there's a whole lot of that going on right now in healthcare. Oh, oh my gosh. And what is that? What does that do? That that moves everyone's focus on to the technology and that's not what is adopted. You, it is the application of the technology that's adopted. Just like I had said a moment ago, Evert Rogers was very, very narrow in his studies. It was a new type of seed specifically for corn farmers in Iowa. So so it's not like he was out talking about new, you know, new innovations for farmers. Know, it was very specific in terms of the application or use and and so I think we get we meaning, you know, the innovation community, gets hung up on the technology or the platform and they and there's not enough attention paid to what is really moving through the adoption life cycle and that's the application. So yeah, I think the customer voice is so fundamentally missing from majority of these commercialization strategies and plans, even the most patient centric solutions. Yes, and even centric business is more often have never actually spoken to patients or if they have, they ignore them. Yeah, yeah, so that's that's a big part of it. So let me let me add to a tiny bit of complexity here, because you you'd asked about you know why it is there's not more success in healthcare invasion. All right, part of that is you need to understand that if someone is an early adopter, it's only for one application, because every application has its own bell curve. So let's just say we're going to look at remote patient monitoring and and you look at the different different types of applications, are use cases. So there's RPM for Glucose Monitoring, for COPD, for blood pressure, right, hypertension. You will discover that a health system can be an early adopter for one of those and a lagguered for another. Just because they have decided to go first and apply it to say, Blood Glucose Monitoring, does not mean they're going to be a remote patient monitoring early adopter across the board. It's that's not the way it is. You know, you go and you look at a leading health system, geising or something, you go, Oh, these guys are early adopters. No, no, they are early adopters for specific applications. You know, I always point to my my neighbor. Right, my neighbor is an early adopter of electric vehicles, but but he refuses to get a a covid vaccination. Right. So we so, so, write. Those are two different applications. Satellite TV, right, TV, yeah, but you know those are both, you know, new innovations. And and he's early on one and an absolute laggered on the other.

So you you can't look at someone's behavior in the past and say, Oh, I know what kind of person this is. No, it is application specific. Everything that comes along is different because they're reevaluating their acceptance of risk each time. So how do you find out? Are Innovators? who were the early adoptors? WHO's the early majority, late majority, and letyards? Yep, Yep, all right. So, and I love it and this this is and you need to stop me if I start to speak too much about this company I'm working with. But the best way to do it is go through the adoption sequence and pay attention. So you want to start out with a new innovation and attract innovators because, remember, these are each you know, these each sort of it's like a baton. It's like the the the race, right, where the pass a baton from one runner to the next, right. So, so someone takes the baton, runs a lap, hands it to the next guy. They run a lap. That's that's the way the innovation process works. So you start out the very first is the innovator. They run the lap and hand it to the early adopter. Okay, all right. So you need the buyoff or the acceptance of innovators. So you go out and you find innovators first. And the way we did that recently, and by the way, it's worked like magic, as we went to science, a scientific conference. The Heart Failure Society of America has a scientific meeting every year. We went and gave a presentation on this new you know, essentially Ankle Edema Monitor and and all of the people who are true innovators came to us and said, wow, that's great. All right. So now now that they've had a chance to see it, use it, work with it, understand the technology. They're going over to all the different early adopters they know and going hey, you guys should look at this. So it it's like they help the process start from one adopter group to the next. And then and then, once you work with that the early adopters, then they're going to say, okay, here are the people in the mainstream you should probably go to first. They're going to help promote so you pay attention to the adoption sequence and you essentially take your your brand new innovation to innovators and they tend to hang out in scientific conferences, you know, certain events, places where they can find things that are brand new. You go there and you hang out with them and and it just you know it. My the the CEO of this company, is just amazed at how well this is working and because it works. Lauren and and I've done the same thing in industry after industry after industry. You Go and you use the adoption sequence, you find innovators first. They will then take it out into the broader market, just like early adopters will. But if you go straight to the mainstream, that's why you fail and you assume that someone is an early adopter because of past behavior. No, MMM, be careful. Hey, it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves you to make to survive and thrive... the new covid economy? I want every health innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivot strategy, which is why I created the covid proof your business pivot kit. The pivot kit is a step by step framework that helps you find your best pivot strategy. It walks you through six categories you need to examine for a three hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses. As you make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to make sure you can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details and opportunities. Learn more at legacy and DNACOM backslash kit. In so many are not paying any attention to this diffusion of innovation model whatsoever, so they're not aligning where they are in the innovation process, where the market is in the innovation process, and so they're branding, their messaging, their positioning, all of their strategy, ever targeting. Everything is misaligned. In so defending tons and tons of money and time trying to aren't twist the arms of all of the lagguards when the late majority into home on you have a problem, and then they're like you're an idiot, that you don't know that you have this problem and because I can solve it for you. Yeah, okay, all right. So so that you just reminded me of something that is really, really important. So you had on your show, when your recent shows, I think it's marina and Eugene. Yeah, Uh Huh, okay, all right. So why have they been so successful? Well, part of the reason is they are the founder, but they are also the customer. This is someone who is creating a solution that they needed themselves. MMM because, as my understanding, Marina, you'll had had breast cancer, recovered from that, needed a health coach and you'll decided, because of difficulty finding what you needed, she actually became a health coach herself. All right, so think about this in terms of problem definition. When someone is creating something that they need themselves, they know all of the different dimensions of the problem. Right. So she knows the first order, the second order, the third order, the fourth order, problems that need to be addressed. If you're on the outside just going to talk to customers and you say, okay, I think you have this problem, let's talk about these problems that you have, you know, sure the customer would say, okay, I have this problem, but they'll probably talk about the first order or the most super you know, the the biggest area of the problem, and they won't say a lot about, you know, the second, the third, the fourth, fifth and and that's why coming from the outside to try to figure out how to solve a problem is way harder than if you're solving the problem for yourself and the you know, the everyday examples you know that I throw around. You know there were a group of people who couldn't find the shoes that they wanted, so they went and created Zappos. It's called Zappos. There were people who had extra space in their house and needed some extra money, so they created are BNB. You know, it's when the founder is the customer that... actually have tremendous success. Now that that's not always possible, but boy if you're an investor, that's what you want to look for, right, because those people know the problem inside and out and and it's it is the key two great returns and a lot of success. So the only thing that I would add to that is that I have seen some of those founders that have experienced the problem to have some bias where their personal experience isn't always reflective of the entire market. So I think just being mindful of being able to validate that. And is it not me that's experienced then, this problem in this way, or is it a broader market that's, you know, a a viable market for me to actually bring a business model to? Yeah, so that you and that's great point. So remember where we speak in terms of applications and and you know, if you solve a problem for farmers in Iowa, you then need to think about, okay, who's whose? Second, what you know? What are the farmers in Nebraska like? Are they a little bit different? Is The you know, is the are the requirements going to going to change? So you are absolutely correct and you do develop an initial solution based on what you know the best, especially if you've had the problem. However, there's no guarantee that the follow on segments or the follow on applications are going to be exactly the same. Probably they will not be. So it's part of that reinvention process that never stops. Never. Yeah, yeah, so I want to take us to a conversation around passing the baton. So when you describe this model of passing the baton from, you know, audience segment to audience segment, or you describe it as the innovators are the ones that are like first initially enthusiastically excited about this and then they can't wait to tell the earlier doctors that they know and how this trickle effect happens. Sounds a lot like word of Mouth Communication, UH HUH, which made a very, very critical role and commercialization and I would say, is more often than not overlooked. So speak to that. Yeah, absolutely, and you know this is this is again something that you know. I might I might step on a few toes when I say, okay, when I say this, unfortunately, especially with a new innovation that that is unknown and it's in a market and people are not really familiar with the technology or the company or the application of the technology. What the vendor says does not matter right, because you have a situation that one more time. Yeah, and and you know, and this is this is in direct conflict with a huge community that spends all their time on what's called storytelling. Well, if you just told the story and you know you'd engage and you know you'd get people to understand what you're about. No, not until you it's not until you have the support of the market place that customers really decide it's time to take you seriously. Because the you know, the thing I always envision as a an inverted pyramid, so the you're at the bottom, or the vendor...

...or the founders the bottom the perspective, customers are at the top and in between or all of these different groups that can either help you or hurt you. You know, there's associations, there's, you know, partners that you actually might have, there are complementary suppliers, there are, of course, not just journalists and publications, but there are industry analysts, there are consultants, there are all kinds of people in that market space. Well, if they support you, then it is a huge deal, but you've got to give them credible evidence that they should support you. So you you start from the bottom of this inverted pyramid and you begin this education process where you move up the layer ors and show them credible proof of what you've got. Then when it's time for customers to say, Oh, you know, we should look at this, and they start reaching out to their network. Hey, what do you think about this? And maybe they'll go to a trade show, maybe they'll go you to some kind of conference, maybe they'll just get on the phone, maybe they'll go on to linkedin. They'll reach out to people they feel our credible sources of information. And if they if they say, Oh, yes, I've heard of this new company and their new innovation and and and I've seen evidence that it works, that is the magic that can happen with word of mouth reverses. All also true if the customer reaches out to their network, so what do you think about this new thing? And all they get is, I don't know, I've never heard of it, I have no idea. Or well, I've heard of it but it's unproven. Then well, you know, the entire mainstream at least will step back and go, okay, I'm not ready to engage. And when people of all the examples that that is happening in healthcare right now. Yeah, it's. It's actually a framework that I've I've used for many, many years, and it's it's just called infrastructure education and some people call it market relations and I you know, I've got a little guide that, you know, I could send to you, Dr Roxy, if you'd like, and you can make it available. Yeah, the show notes. Yeah, and it's but it's how how you really need to understand who, who is trusted in your market, how you need to educate them with certain kinds of proof and how they will then reinforce your message and then, and then you can go directly to to the end user or the prospective customer. And of course, maybe you've seen some of the latest Gartner studies, customers don't like to have a salesperson present for most of the buying process. That's really pickly. It's like eighty percent of the buying process happens before the brand ever is even aware of it. Right, EXA Bingo, that's exactly the number. The so the numbers or the range of numbers I've seen is I had seen like eighty three percent of the whole buying cycle that the vendor or the supplier is not allowed to participate. You know. So, you know you don't trust what they say anyway. What exactly exactly? So. But there was one other...

...thing that's somewhat related to this that I wanted to be sure and mentioned if we still have a few minutes, and that is you always have to keep in mind that a new innovation provides, you know, many times great, great benefits, but it also makes the end user give something up. All right, so like, for example, I'll use that electric car example again. Yeah, an electric car is cheap, right, electricity to socalled refuel your car. That's cheap. That's great, that's a super benefit. But what do you give up? Well, there aren't. You don't find a charging station on every corner like you do gas stations. So the it's not easy to refuel. So you give up that convenience in order to get low cost. If you use online grocery shopping, right, that's great, a lot of benefit. What do you give up? You don't get to pick your own tomatoes and they bring the wrong stuff and they bring you and now I have to go back to the grocery store just to return what I didn't want. Exactly exactly so or where. They gave you. They brought you the tomato you wanted. It's just a lousy looking tomato that you never would have selected. Right. This happened to me just a few weeks ago. I don't know. I really didn't investigate this to see if it was my error or their era, but I'm gonna blame them because I'm just that just feels better for me. But I got, instead of one bag of the little halo oranges, I got five, right, five pounds of little halot oranges for just my husband and I in the house. Right, yes, so a lot of eating oranges that week. So you know, a lot of innovations are like this. You you get, there's a benefit, but there's a cost and no one wants to talk about the cost. All right, all right, here's one that you might find kind of shocking because, and I say that because I was stunned, is I had the chance to do a lot of interviewing of nurses recently. So there's in this area where I live, there's the University of Washington Medical Center. So I'm I'm interviewing a nurse. She's been a nurse for twenty five years. Lots of experience. She said she had worked in every department on every floor of the entire complex. So she knows nursing in every in every setting, right. And I said, so what do you think about electronic health records? And she goes, well, she goes, when I first started as a nurse, my my twelve hour shift, in a twelve hour shift, I spent eleven hours providing care directly for patients. Eleven out of twelve hours I'm working directly with a patient. Electronic health records come along and now I can only spend seven hours out of twelve directly caring for patients. So just the maintenance of electronic health records, like you know epic and others, that took four hours of a shift, of each and every shift, away from the patient. Yeah, but you talk about a big hit, a big cost, and and she knew, she knew that. You know, I was interviewing her because I'm working on a new digital health device, right, and she and she got this very, very sad look on her face and she said,...

...please, don't hurt my patients any more than you already have. You think about for a lot of clinicians and the world. You think, think about has. And do you ever hear anyone talk about the cost? You know there's there's clearly benefits to electronic health records, you know. I mean you get to see all of the previous medications and diagnosis and all of these things and they're great. But whoever stops to say and Oh, by the way, in a twelve hour shift, the actual patient loses four hours of attention. HMM, no one ever says that. And I and again, I hate to see you know, to step on toes, but we need to look at tell a medicine in the same with the same kind of evaluation filters. You and I were talking about going back to in person events and how wonderful it is to connect with people. facetoface. Yeah, okay, you know there's a cost of tell a medicine. It's called you don't have the personal connection with the doctor because, you know, human to human connection. We look at whether or not people maintain eye contact, we look at their body posture, all these things you do. facetoface are are removed in tell a medicine visits and that's the that's the foundation of trust that is lost in a tell a medicine environment. It and and that's a that's a that's a big hit. Actually that's a big hit. So I would say, you know, we we absolutely need to start being realistic about what is given up in order to actually benefit from an innovation. WHAT DO PEOPLE HAVE TO LOSE? And it's not trivial, it's not that takes a lot of empathy, a lot of understanding, some time, maybe even some additional resources to be able to understand that that situation and and I think it also, you know, requires us as innovators, to put our ego at the door, that no, recognizing or acknowledging that we don't have all the answers and our businesses will be better suited for us to be able to make those investments early on and communicate that two investors, communicate that to the board and get the leadership and get that by in even if we have to slow down the process a little bit, but to be able to do it right and start moving the needle together, absolutely, and you just need to recognize, you know, all of the all of the dimensions of the current interaction, that you know that that's one of those things I mentioned earlier. I had put together a new model, which I call the low risk recipe. Right, it's. And you know, one of the biggest pieces of that is you have to try to let people continue to use what they're using today. You know, is there a way to take a new innovation and just add it to what is already being done? Don't, don't go in and my least favorite word in the world is disruption. Actually right, I am so excited about it. I hate that word. In fact, if you want to minimize the...

...the downside of an of an innovation, if you want to accelerate acceptance, accelerate adoption, you try to to keep it so people can use what they're already using. It's it's the magic of Thomas Addison, right when? When, when he first develops the electric light bulb, looks around, he goes, Oh, look, all these people are using gas lamps. So they have these tubes that deliver gas into their houses. He goes, you know what, I bet we should just run electric wires through these tubes because they're already in place. We're not going to say hey, you have to go tear those out and put in new wires somewhere else. Let's use what's in place today. Right, and it was one of the things and it's one of those things that allowed electric light to just, you know, skyrocket and and it's like don't force change if you can avoid it. So, Warren, we have absolutely ran out of time. We've actually gone over to day, but it's just so good I want to continue this conversation in a series of episodes with you and I there's just so much for us to talk about and I we certainly can't cover everything in one episode. So folks be on the lookout for more of Warren on our show. We will be doing more of these together just as we wrap up. How can people get Ahold of you if they want to follow up with you between now and the next episode together? Absolutely so. I have a website. It's called High Tech strategiescom and you know that would be an easy place and there's some resources. They're also right. There's and and the guides that I mentioned in the frameworks are all there. There's actually free interactive infographics where you can go on the on the adoption curve and see where you are and see if all of Your Business Systems are lined up with the customer right. So it's a lot of fun and it's all free. And then, of course, linkedin. It's you know, my my linkedin extension is just my my name, more and shirt singer. So either place joining me today and for sharing your wisdom with our audience. I know they all got a lot out of it and hopefully it changes the trajectory of their business success. It absolutely is there and available. It just you have to understand it and use it. So I'm happy to help. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market and I value your time and attention. To get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Health Innovators.

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