Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

The Curious Case of a Health System That’s Actually Prioritizing Innovation w/ Pothik Chatterjee

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The more I work with health innovators, the more evidence I have that many healthcare entities are hesitant to innovate. Between all the red tape and risks, many find it hard to see the value. And when they do, the industry generally has much longer acquisition cycles for buying and adopting new solutions.


But refreshingly, not everyone is resistant to change.


On today’s episode, we’re joined by Pothik Chatterjee, Executive Director of Innovation & Research at LifeBridge Health. LifeBridge is an example of a health system that’s truly on the forefront of innovation, and it’s incredible to hear about.


Pothik tells us about his role at LifeBridge, specifically as it relates to his work with startups and health innovators. We discuss topics like:

  • The challenges that new innovators face when it comes to finding the right decision-makers and advocates to pitch and “sell” their innovations to
  • What he looks for in potential innovation partners, like a compelling narrative, a diverse team, solid experience, and the ability to really prove ROI
  • The general process of evaluating potential partners and finding the right way to work together, from designing the pilot to transitioning after the sale
  • The differences and considerations LifeBridge looks at when evaluating innovations that are radically vs. incrementally disruptive to the system’s current M.O. 

 

Guest Bio

Pothik Chatterjee is the Executive Director of Innovation & Research at LifeBridge Health, a Baltimore-based community health system. Pothik’s department acts as the “front door” for health tech startups that are looking to enter a clinical setting and find the right partner to do so. 

 

Pothik has worked with hospitals for more than five years, with a high involvement in innovation and operations. Even in his earlier work in financial services, healthcare has always been a theme in his career, leading to his conscious switch into the hospital side. He’s dedicated to better understanding the needs and challenges of patients and providers, so he can better connect them with solutions in the market.

 

To learn more about Pothik’s work, visit www.lifebridgehealth.org/innovation. You can also connect with him on LinkedIn.

Welcome to Coiq, where you learn how health innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy, founder of Legacy DNA and international bestselling author of how health innovators maximize market success. Through candid conversations with health innovators, earlier, doctors and influencers, you'll learn how to bring your innovation from idea to start ups to market domination. And now let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq. Welcome back to the show coiq listeners. On today's episode we have Popey Chattergy with us today. He is the Executive Director of innovation and research for Life Bridge Health. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Dr Roxy, excited to be here. Thank you, and you know I don't want to forget to mention that you also just received an award last year for forty under forty. Thank you. Yes, it was very, very exciting and a great acknowledgement of the work of our innovation and Research Department Overall Life Bridge Health. That's awesome. So let's just get started by telling our listeners a little bit about you. Your background and what you do. Sounds good. So, as you mentioned, I'm the Executive Director for Innovation and Research. So I'm responsible for the operations for innovation and Research Team and is react as the front door for startups that are focused on innovation and technology and looking to enter a clinical setting and find the right partner within our health system, whether it's a clinical champion within a particular department or our chief informatics officer or connecting with someone supply chain or innovation and research group acts as the front door and we help complete the evaluation and understand how the best technology might fit in with our clinical needs for healthcare system and our patients needs as well. In terms of my background, I have been working in hospitals for over five years now. So I've been working at Life Bridge Health, which is a community health system in Baltimore, Maryland, and prior to life bridge I worked in Academic Medical Center at Wagram and women's Hospital in Boston, which is part of the partners healthcare system and the Harvard Medical School Teaching Hospital System. So I've been very involved with hospital innovation and operations. Prior to that, I worked in the financial services industry, so I did a switch in my career right after a business school, so I worked in healthcare, investment banking, private equity and venture capital investing with TD capital in Toronto. So I've always had healthcare as a theme in my career for my very first days, and I made a conscious switch to move into the hospital side of the business because I wanted to get closer to positions and patients and understand their needs and their challenges so that we get better connect them with solutions from the market. So I just you know, I think that that's just excellent that you guys have provided a formal front door for for health innovators to approach you. You know, I have conversations with folks all the time that are like, how do I get who? How do I get in front of the right people? And you know, is it the chief innovation officers? It's a chief medical officer? Is it a, you know, midlevel director for a particular department or initiative that's happening in sounds like you guys have made that process much easier by being the the entry point in kind of the the evaluation or funnel for it. Yeah, I I would say, based on my experience that there it could be very challenging from the startups perspective to understand where their solution...

...fits in and how to sell an advocate for their particular type of technology, whether it's artificial intelligence or deep learning or automation or mobile applications, and I'll talk a little bit about some specific examples where we're partnered with startups and large companies to implement those solutions in a hospital setting. But based on experience, I can definitely under stand the entrepreneurs challenges and struggles because hospitals have long acquisition cycles in terms of purchasing and, yeah, winting new technologies and by sort of by virtue of our industry of healthcare, we tend to be pretty risk averse, especially in a hospital setting, where if a particular process or technology or clinical workflow is performing adequately, then there is a bias towards retaining it rather than testing something new, because there's obviously risk involved for patients and physicians. So I can fully, you know, understand the challenges by having worked with startups from both the Academic Medical Center side and now from the community health side as well well. We have kind a life bridge to try to reduce that challenge and reduce that barrier for entrepreneurs is to have curated events like an innovation challenge that we did last summer with Blue Cross Blue Shield of Maryland, the care first group, where we did a call for applications from startups all over the country for specific issues that can help reduce the pair provider friction around our operational flow. So, as you might know, we we still use quite manual processes to get information from our electronic medical records over to our insurance partner. So explore based use technology and AI and automation to move away from facts machines and two thousand and twenty. We shouldn't be using facts missions more. We should automation the way that Google or Amazi press soft are to reduce the friction for us as healthcare systems, but also for the patients ultimately as well. So we did a very specific type of challenge which we based on the shark tank model, where we had yeos and leadership from our hospital system and the Bluecross Blue Shield side. We also involved the city of Baltimore. We had our health commissioner, Doctor Letisha Zeraza, participate as a judge and we were amazed at the reception that we got. We expected maybe twenty or thirty applications. We ended up receiving over a hundred applications from all over the United States and it's and Canada as well when we had to narrow it down to six finalists for the day competition and elected a winner based on the judges and based on the pitches from the day. So the winner was Washington DC analytics firm called socially determined that looks at the social determinants of health and how they affect patients lives outside of our hospital. So looking at issues like homelessness, Addiction, transportation challenges so that our care managers can better treash the patients and connect them with community based organizations to help with as because we realize that a lot of the health factors that impact patients have upside the hospital. So the way we understand and integrate that into our care management approach, the better we think the overall healthcare outcomes will be. And as our industry moves from a fee for service model to a value based CARE MODEL in United States, it's becoming increasingly important for us to focus on outcomes and show the value that we're delivering to patients. So the innovation challenge that we did is just one example of how we are trying to reduce the friction and connect with the startups that meet the needs of our healthcare system. Another thing that we've done with in our department is have office hours for local startups to come in and speak...

...with myself and with our chief innovation officer connect them with funding opportunities to help fund the pilots. To get from that six month or one year stage to the enterprise level contract can be quite challenging. So we are trying to make ourselves more available to connect with entrepreneurs and in those office are sometimes will bring in clinicians as well to give the clinical feedback that, hey, this technology is awesome. We would love to use virtual reality headsets or ai around some type of ambient environment. Those could be really good solutions, but it doesn't need our need today right now. Right now have a much more specific need around just diagnosing a particular type of condition or improving our time so that we can be more efficient and improve our through put time. So we're offering more channels and more opportunities to bring our innovation leaders and our clinical leaders facetoface with entrepreneurs. So that's another example out see. A third one is that we have gone through a pretty extensive process internally of identifying what our biggest needs with an add parts within supply chain, within clinical areas like cardiology, surgery oncology, so that when startups come to us, we can give them a better way to assess what our annual strategies are based on the organizational strategy. So a great example of this in real life is our discussions that we had with company called get well network. So think mobile application for patient engagement called get well looped. So this is you suppost discharge when our patients are leaving our hospital in patient or ED. In the past we used to give them print out so manual information that was complicated sometimes difficult for them to understand and there wasn't really an easy way for them to come back and ask clarification questions. So we recognize that as a pain point within our hospital system and two years ago we implemented this mobile application so that when you leave or hospital, you get a text message or an email invitation to join the get well loop and this gives you automated reminders about your meditation, about how to sign up for follow up appointments, about how to get in touch with your care team from the comfort of your home outside the hospital, and we've seen tremendous engagement from our patient population. We have seen over fourteenzero patients who have actively used the get well loop mobile application. So it's improved communication pathways, it's improve patient satisfaction and patient engagement. But what's really interesting, Dr Roxy, is that we're now also seeing an impact on clinical outcomes. When you get who are more digitally engaged with the health care and getting real time feedback from the care team, we're actually seeing improven in care outcomes and seeing a reduction and readmissions for the digitally engage population. We took one year's worth of data from two thousand and eighteen to two thousand and nineteen and found a thirty percent relative reduction in revisits to the emergency department for patients who are digitally engaged with the get well loopath. That's significant. You know. That's actually exceeded what our commercial expectations were and we think it's because of the real time connection. We think it's because of the convenience of having this tool in the palm of their hands and I think it's led to increased engagement on our physician and providers staff as well, because they know that there's this tool that they can talk to patients about. So it's shown engagement on both sides and the next steps of our analysis are now to see if we can combine social determinants of health with the readmissions patterns to understand how we can inform our care management strategy and even policy,...

...to understand what parts of the Baltimore population we could engage with this technology and that understand what there's limitations might be or what their needs might be all the application. I think that is incredible and what's percolating on my in my mind over here as you're speaking is that what what I think you're describing is a pathway that you all have created, a process or a framework to validate problem solution fit and product market fit, whether that was intentionally designed are not. You know, when I think about our listeners and in what you just described, the takeaway here is that this is the most successful path for problem solution fit and product market fit, and the reason why I say that is, you know, I hear so many innovators that are pitching solutions to a health system, spending a lot of resources and they're not they're not doing the homework up front to identify what is those that systems initiatives and priorities. Right. So maybe it's a problem that they're aware of that the the system has, but if the said health system is not aware of the problem or it's not something that they're looking to solve today, it is a waste of time go knock on another door. Right, and I think there's, you know, a responsibility on both sides to, yeah, educated, more organized and be more efficient and be able to act quickly when there is a good match between the pain point and the solution. As I mentioned, health systems traditionally have not been the fastest movers. We are not necessarily like a technology company like apple or Amazon, where we can break things disrupt things, because there's patient lives that are involved and, yeah, it's careers that are involved. So we have a responsibility as a nonprofit institution, to really test things thoroughly to understand the impact of digital tools on patient experience and patient outcomes. But but you're right, there could be a shift towards more information sharing and being more systematic about what our biggest priorities are, because something that I really that makes me really sad is when I see a very spirited, talented entrepreneur who does have a good solution and even though we need some tweaks or refinements, they're just not able to connect with the right decision make are within a healthcare system, or they don't understand how the budgeting process works and what we have available in our resources and capability to purchase and implement something and they just don't quite understand the connections. And, as I said, there's responsibility on both sides. I'm solutly going to the healthcare system from finance. Over seven years ago now, I didn't have a great understanding of who the key decision makers were, how to engage physicians in a appropriate manner, and it's something that comes with time and experience. But I do think that there's some secret sauce that we have discovered at life, which health as a community health system, where we are able to be very clear about what our priorities are. And our priorities, as I mentioned, are around improving access using mobile applications and digital health. Another priority for us is to use artificial intelligence and and bed that in our clinical workflow to improve treashing of patients and help our physicians with their decision making process. So we go back to the market with a consistent message and I think that helps us solidify our relationships with entrepreneurs as well. Yeah, definitely. So want to go back to something that you touched on...

...earlier about the front door. Let's just talk about this. You know the reality of that experience. So you you know you've got these applications, you know with these is curated events, or you've got the front door where you know people are being funnel to you if they have something that they want to sell, a solution that they want to sell to your system. Describe what that experience is like in the context of you know, how equipped or the entrepreneurs to tell the story, tell a compelling story, be succinct in their value proposition, you know, all of these things to get your attention and to get your time, to be able to present, and then when they do present, you know, the compelling offer versus the disconnect and maybe maybe an experience where you said I kind of maybe, I don't even understand what you're doing. Go back to the drawing board. Or I understand what you're doing, but if you described it this way, I could see it would solve this problem better than the problem that you're saying it could solve. Let's just talk about that a little bit. Sure, that's a great question. In terms of a conversation or experience that we've had with a start up where they had a very clear story and that made it much more, much easier, to be honest, for us to be able to move forward with that company. I think there's several features in that and I'm going to try to draw on several startups that. If yeah, let's do it, but at those examples. So the first one, I would say, is a compelling narrative about the impact for either our patient and population or our physicians. So if there's a gripping story that they can share with us about personal connection to healthcare. They could be a family member or it could be an experience from working in the industry and a pharmaceutical company or a medical device company and they had an Aha moment where you recommend, where they realize this is such a huge meat and I have a unique solution that to bring it to market, then nobody else is doing. That's a great book. That yet way for us to start the discussion. Yep, the second thing. That's just the start, though. That's not enough to complete the conversation. Yep, you think that I look for is about the product itself or service. What's really unique about what you have developed? Have you gone through the FDA process, that you thought about what the regulatory regulatory approval process and timeline looks like? Have you done the research? Have you done the homework? The Best Pitch Presentations that we get show clear, almost like a direct comparison of your product or service compared to others in the market, and it has to be honest as well. Right product or service in every single aspect of a technology or what about when they don't have any competitors? There's it's so revolutionary, there's nothing like that, and you're like, Oh, come on, you even substitute products or sit or that revolutionary. You have to have at least one or two other comparisons that you can at least show some comparison with. Yet US understand that you're like them, but there's something unique about you. Yep. So that type of detail about the technology and the product is something that we look for as well. Thirdly, I look for team and the experience. How Are you a seasoned entrepreneur? Have you been able to develop a software service or developed a medical device and then I go to sell it to a large corporation or taken it to IPO to market? Do you have balance in your team? Do you have a combination of management experience in the business world? Do you have a clinician, or at least a strong clinician, on your board of Advisors? And then do you have operators who are doing this full time, who can do the market research, you can do the...

...product development or be a customer, a champion? That's very helpful in our gut while loop experience having someone who's dedicated to life bridge health and can help develop the content for our mobile applications and really partner with us. So those are the three things that I look for initially, so the narrative, the technology or the product, and then thirdly, the team and the experience. And then the fourth thing that I look for for life bridges have are you able to explain to us how your product will deliver Roy Return on investment? So a lot of these new technologies can be extensive. Yeah, a million dollars or multimillion dollars, and as a nonprofit hospital, system. We have to be very conscious about how we're allocating capital to life giving needs of clinical department and for us to justify an investment in a new technology can just be a shiny toy. It has to be something that augments our position capabilities or improves patient outcomes or helps reduce costs. So I really value an entrepreneur who is able to show me a high level analysis of how our million dollars investment, for example, in this technology, will be able to pay itself off in a couple of years and how to quantify what the benefits are of our health system, because ultimately there's going to be someone within our side who has to make that financial decision, whether it's our CFO or if it's a finance director for the Department of Orthopedics or for surgery. And as the innovation team, we have to be able to understand your thesis around that Roi and be able to communicate that to advocate on your behalf. So the really the four main things that I look for. I think thank you for taking the time to share those details, because I think that that's really important for our listeners to hear, and even some of it is like yeah, sure, of course, but it's good to just here reiterated, you know, from a health systems mouth directly, of like, yes, this is what I have to do. Hey, it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Do you want your innovation to succeed, to change lives, to shape the future of healthcare? I want that for every health innovator, which is why I invented Coyq and evidence based framework to take your innovation from an idea to start up to full market adoption. If you're not sure where you are in the commercialization process, take the free assessment now at Dr Roxycom. backslash score. Don't miss out on impacting more lives just because you have a low coiq score. The free assessment is at Dr Roxycom. backslash score. That's Dr Roxiecom, backslash score. And now let's jump back into the conversation. So, so I want to ask you emergent companies, emergent startups are always at different phases of in this process. So how much of what you just described are you looking to be concrete in order for you to play play ball and kind of entertain that idea, and how much of that is well if you've got these things, we can figure out the other parts together, because I think that's, I'm something that I'm seeing happy been more and more of you know, entrepreneurs previously feeling like they had to have all the answers and they kind of had to have like a year's worth of data to substantiate the you know, those clinical outcomes and so forth. And then I've talked to other people that are like, you know what, you don't have to have all the answers, let's do this together. So what does that look like for you guys? The honest answer is that it depends. Okay, they use case and the strategic importance of the application or device in terms of...

...our overall organizational priorities. So what do I mean by that? If the startup or company, Early Stage Company that we're looking at is developing a solution for our virtual hospital, for example, which we have at life bridge health, which is our call center, and we also use a variety of technologies for tellent medicine and tracking patient flow within our hospitals and now hospital beds are being filled. That's a big strategic priority for the hospital. So for that part of our business we're not going to work at a very, very early stage start up because there's a big impact on pature well yet through and our clinical experience, so that might not be appropriate in that case. However, if there is a startup that's focusing on more incremental change rather than big disruptive change across the system. And what do I mean by incremental change? I mean an offering, let's say a medical device that has some type of new capability. Let's say it's, for example, it's a knee brace for orthopedic patients as well, and it helps improve their mobility through some type of stimulant or there's something about the way that the knee brace is constructed that superior. That's something that we would be willing to test in our gate lab at sign a hospital to see if there's we could do a small pilot with the small number of patients or even the employees involved with our gate lab to see if there's some incremental improvement there. Another example where we could really partner with an early stage startup could be on the software side around patient experience, where we could focus on a specific division or a specific department that has been having a lot of challenges engaging their patients outside of the hospital and say let's try this with thirty patients or fifty patients over a specific period of time and here the outcomes of success that we're looking for and if it's a lower risk type of scenario than we would be willing to engage more with the startup departner. But that I want to put out there in terms of your listeners and your audience and the community that even those smaller pilots do require time, effort and resources and obviously everyone knows clinical time is incredibly valuable because of the patients that doctors need to see. So we do need to factor in the cost to those smaller pilots as well. But in those situations what we can do is negotiate some type of opportunity for Co licensing or opportunity for future commercialization from the content that we developed together with the startup or particular instances of the software. So that's something that we're open to as well, because we we realize that we add a lot of value as an experienced healthcare system with an active innovation department and we want to help early stage startups where we want skin in the game as well and we want to be able to share in the success. If your mobile application or clinical decisionmaking software shows a lot of success and then you're able to expand to fifty hospitals across the United States, then I think it's fair for us as a healthcare system to be involved in that success. So I think that's a really valid point, if for discussion as well, because I'm seeing more and more of that where the exactly what you just described, where the health system is saying, okay, listen, we can explore this together, but I've got to have some benefit than just taking, you know, six months, eighteen months of my time, my team's time, helping you build your company and build your solution. Right, right, makes sense. Yeah. So one of the things that you touched on that I think it's really important that I want to explore a little bit deeper is this idea of a customer champion or even like a clinical champion. So one of the other strategies that I am, you know, hearing more and more with our...

...with our clients that we work with, that is successful is that I am not going to walk into your front door, give you this compelling narrative and story and it be aligned with your initiative and you say yes and we move fast and we get it through the door and then be able to walk away that you know that everybody has processes and businesses, objectives, you know, departmental goals, etc. That they have to work on and your solution is not necessarily the priority, even though it was paid for and it was adopted and said we're going to do this. So how much responsibility does the system and does the the health innovator need to be part of that solution, even after the sale, to make sure that there's adoption and that there's some advocacy how happening and making sure that they get the right outcomes at the end of that pilot or or that engagement? That's a great question. I love that you brought that up, DC Roxie. I think it's essential for the Innovation Department to be closely involved with the start up because during that transition period, after the six month or one year pilot, join me do the handoff to the Clinical Department or Finance or billing or revenue cycle management that's going to be using the tool, because there's a lot of education that's required, a lot of you need and a lot of awareness that needs to be shared with the staff around the benefits of the tool, and that's an important value of the innovation and Research Department through that handoff process because, as you have seen and I have seen, there are instances where you have a very spectacular pilot and there was one clinical champion or one administrative vice president who was really supportive and saw the benefits of a purchasing tool, for example, where you can look at and just coming up as an example, yeah, lost of surgical implants, and look at market comparisons and get savings from such an implementation. But once it completed that initial pilot stage, there was maybe another stakeholder who wasn't as involved earlier on, who has another vendor that they have in mind and that they're not as excited or enthusiastic about this initials product. If we, as the innovation and Research Group, bought that company into our system. Yes, I believe we do have a responsibility be thorough and understand how these decisions are being made and communicate them to the entrepreneur. It can get a little awkward sometimes because the pilot results were so successful and then we have to explain some strategy and different decisionmaking process. But I do think we have a responsibility because it goes beyond just one start up or one yeah, right. It's part of our reputation to the overall startup community and even tech community. We don't just deal with early stage companies, we deal with midstage companies and ours and tech, Farma and biotech. Sure part of our overall reputation and credibility that we give a clear rationale why they're not going to proceed or proceed with a new solution, and that's part of, you know, our culture and our message within the Life Bridge Innovation and Research Department. I think it also becomes challenging when you're trying to grow. Sometimes, if you grow too quickly and take on too many startup partners, this risk that you're describing is more likely to take place. So, when I'm talking to our chief Innovation Officer, Dr Dan Durant, about our strategic plans for the upcoming year for two thousand and twenty, where you trying to be very intentional about our capacity as innovation group, but also the strategic priorities of some of the key players that we work with, and again those are the clinical departments, I ask to a degree, marketing if it involves patient engagement and patient experience, and we...

...try to be very collaborative and have a clear sense of while we can take on as a group and what we can take on as a hospital as well. I do think we bear some responsibility there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you've touched on a couple of times in this conversation and I think we talked about it even more in some of our previous discussions about speed and moving quickly, and I think I just I fell off my chair and our previous discussion, you know, is like cut to what a health system talking about speed and agility and moving fast and being flexible and and so you know, kind of describe for us a little bit about the culture within your organization and how you think that that plays a role and your innovation success. Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. It's one of the aspects of our innovation shop that I'm the most proud of, a like self, and I think it's part of our secret sauce for why we have been able to implement a number of successful pilots that are showing significant outcomes and benefits for our doctors and our patients. I think it comes from the senior leadership of the organization, from our CEO to our chief innovation officer to our chief financial officer, where they really want to be cutting edge and not just be cutting edge with what's available in the market today, but think beyond to what you be the best technology for our patients to really improve their care and improve their lives three years from our five years from now. They're always trying to stay one step ahead and that's really influenced my thinking and my approach as well. Yeah, they're also willing, I think, to take more chances than potentially some other healthcare system leaders. I would say, compared to academic medicine, is a more risk averse culture, I think, being in a community health setting, because we want to get innovative medical devices or pharmaceuticals or medical software to our patients quickly, we are willing to really emphasize that speed aspect. And if, you know, some of these pilots don't work, we're willing to pivot, which is something that's really, I think, unique as well, and be really honest with ourselves at looking at the metrics and if we didn't meet our goals, to say that this didain work, we need to look at another solution. Two specific examples Dr Roxy yet of our quick speed to market and working with startups and how that really improved our patients outcome. So the first one is an artificial intelligence company called rapid, which focuses on stroke patients. So their AI software allows our physicians to determine when stroke patient comes into our emergency department, parts of the brain can still be saved in the hours after which in a when a patient has a stroke. So it allows us to expand the therapeutic window to attempt more life saving stroke interventions than we could do before we implemented rapid. So we've been working with this Israeli start up now for the last three years and because of our partnership with the startup, we've seen a significant increase in our stroke intervention service at Life Bridge and we've implemented the software at all of our emergency departments. We've seen really great response from our physicians as well and we've seen improvements in our workflow. They had one of the first FDAR proved AI applications for stroke, and so that shows you that life bridge is willing to partner with new developers of solutions and really bring them into our clinical workflow and we received an award last year for the thanks of Maryland. Thank you for the fastest door to need all time,...

...and it's called the Golden Green Award from the State of Maryland Stroke Center consortium. So we believe that our partnership with this rapid start up really helped us with this award. The other example, which is a little bit more recent, so this is not three years, but this was from last year, in two thousand and nineteen, is another artificial intense intelligence application for chest CT scans. So this is for a pulmonary embolism patients, as the CEI software looks at the CT scans and helps to identify potential cases of pe and pulmonary embolism is US considered a silent killer that causes up to two hundred thousand deaths a year and the United States alone, and it often strikes with little to no warning, and diven this is of a case can be extremely time sensitive. Again, the DOC is an fd approved algorithm and they are able to lead the chest exams, ct exams as soon as the patient is scanned and then it notifies the radiologist if there's something that they need to look at urgently based on the CT scan, because over nine thousand five hundred studies with the AI doc software to date. So that, wow, example of working with an early stage start up in the AI space that has received fd approval and bringing it into our clinical workflow to show the results in a community health setting. You know, those are just beautiful examples and I want, and thank you so much for sharing the details of those. I want to go a little bit deeper and talking about mvps. Right, and so is we, as you mentioned earlier. You know, health systems tend to be risk averse, and you know there's a lot of cause behind that, right, because, like you said, lives are at stake, and so we can't just, you know, throw something at the wall and see what sticks. But what I like what you just described in these two examples is something that's very cutting edge, very innovative. There's a certain amount of risk associated with adopting these new solutions within your system, but it's not an MVP in the sense of an incomplete solution that could do harm. So let's just talk about that a little bit. Yeah, tell me a little bit more about what you mean when you're describing an MVP and a healthcare innovation setting, because it could take so many different directions. Yeah, Ye, solution versus a mobile application. What do you have in mind when you are asking about mvps? So, you know, I think that that in itself is part of the discussion. Is that? I think that, you know, is we bring MVP idea from other industries, rights deve blank, you know, air grease, with the you know, the lean startup model, you know, and bring that into healthcare for us to be able to innovate faster in the industry. I'm I'm seeing a backlash of of like, Oh, I don't know, we can't. You know, that works in other industries, that doesn't work in healthcare because we can't do MVP. And so I think kind of redefining what MVP is for healthcare and to your point, and MVP for a AI solution may be very different than an MVP for a medical device solution. Right, right now. I think that's a very relevant question that you're asking and it's it's making me think of what type of setting or what type of support and involvement can we provide from a hospital system to take on MVPS, even at the early stage that could be refined further and developed with a degree of safety into something that we would include in our clinical workfo yes, slow or...

...administrative workflow. And the reason I mentioned the words setting is because we are in the process of launching an Innovation Center in downtown Baltimore and the partnership between life, which all of the hospital system, and Care First, Blue Cross Blue Shield in Maryland, which is a dominant pair in our region, in there. So we are combining together to provide a physical space. This will have elevenzero square feet with room for up to thirty startups. I'm really excited about the center. It's going to launch in about three months and Hey April in Baltimore. It's going to bring startups and jobs to Baltimore and it's also going to bring us a lot of mvps. Is more appropriate and that setting because it's not in our hospital immediately. I think of this innovation center as a testing ground where we will interact with these thirty startups over time and come up with solutions that require clinical validation. We can bring our doctors to the Innovation Center or bring the entrepreneurs into our hospital to learn more about what the pain points are, what the major challenges are. But what's really crucial is that we all still have the pair in the Innovation Center to help the entrepreneurs think about reimbursement and who's actually going to pay for your product is Putin, and we don't see that enough. We really don't. Is it the hospital system or if it be insurance, since they're going to be a billabal code for your product. So I think that type of innovation center is the perfect environment for testing mvps, refining them or rejecting them if they don't make sense. And I do want to add that we're going to have a model clinic in our innovation center as well that will have a sample in patient exam room, in patient room and a sample outpatient ambiliatory exam room as well, so start up entrepreneurs can literally bring in their devices or sensors or wearables and talk to doctors and nurses to understand how does my product fit into the clinical workflow and patient experience? So I think that could be, I hope, a great way for us to test these mvps and not have that traditional message where we're just putting our hands up and saying we can't deal with this, we're not ready for it, where it's just not the right environment. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that's a beautiful example. I can't wait to see what you guys put together. You know, one other thing I just want to say about the MVP is mad this morning I was at a meeting with the care first team and we were picking out the furniture wishes. Where the Innovation Center or so we're pretty close. We're in January now and okay, is to be open in early April, and would love for you to come and visit us. I would love to visit. I would love to see it, especially with the payers involved with the whole innovation development process. Again, I just don't see that enough and it's a critical stakeholder group in that equation. Right. So, you know, just kind of going back to the MVP, if it ifing again. Is that? You know, in my mind, when I describe MVP, I'm thinking of something that is minimum viable solution. Right. It is solving a problem, but in its minimal state. So there could be tons of other features and functionality that could be added, some bells and whistles, but that if an innovator doesn't go out and validate the value proposition right the product market fit of the initial problem. It doesn't make sense to add all those other features and functionality. And we can do this and we can do this and we can do this, all based upon assumptions. So it's not a half debaked solution. It's a fully baked solution in the sense of of an MVP. So there's no danger in it, but it's not something that will solve all the problems that you would have for the next three to five years. That's something that we can add later, right, and in some instances that actually might be more of...

...an advantage that we're starting off with a smaller set of solutions. Yeah, trying to boil the ocean, because let's not forget the El in the room when we're talking about technology and how partings. We already have electronic medical record systems through the large players like Turner epic, that Health System have. Health systems have invested millions of dollars and we're trying to leverage those solutions as well. Yeah, and trying to integrate things like ai or predictive algorithms to try to, you know, leverage the investment that we've already made. So you're absolutely right, Dr Roxy, that sometimes they may be more advantageous for a start up to begin with just a smaller set of solutions that perhaps our emr is unable to provide today, or maybe it addresses a key need for our physicians because there's too many buttons or too many screens and too much navigation involved and it's just not efficient. So that better to start with a smaller set of really valuable solutions and then over time, I've seen this, then they can expand and add those bells and whistles to the solution. Yeah, because you is the health system may not want all my other ideas and if I don't have to spend the time in the money, I get to market faster and I get to use the money that I didn't spend on all the bells and whistles to actually go to market. Have to have that type of Long Term Vision as an entrepreneur, because it is just because life, which helps doesn't want all the bells and whistles doesn't mean that another hospital system down the state may not be super interested in that set of solutions. Yep, Yep. So I'm going to take your mobile phone sound as our que to wrap up our episode here today. I just give you one opportunity to say in all the lessons that you've learned over the last few years and working with startups and innovating internally within the health system, is there anything else that you would want to share with our listeners? Yeah, my last word would be have hope and retain your optimism, because we really do need that in our healthcare industry. Yeah, the macro trends of the costs of healthcare in this country, they are not sustainable. With an rapidly aging population, we have more chronic conditions, more comorbidities. At the same time we have this tremendous revolution in automation, machine learning, digitalization. So sometimes it can be possible to lose faith and lose hope because of the slow purchasing cycles and the bureaucracies and the challenges of our industry. But my main message would be don't lose optimism, don't lose your sense of hope. We need disruption, sometimes in a major way, sometimes in incrementally, but keep bringing your ideas to us. Hospitals need your energy and your talent and your technology. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with our listeners. I so appreciate your time today. And so how can they get ahold of you? If somebody has some questions, they have something they want to present to you, what's the best way to stay connected with you? Absolutely you can connect with us on the life bridge health website, which is life bish health dot org, flash innovation, or you can reach out to me on Linkedin. My name is Pope Chatter Gee. I'm fairly actively publish some of our articles and some of our innovation events on that platform. We would love to hear from you and engage with you, so reach out. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy working to bring...

...your life changing innovation to market and I value your time and your attention. To save time and get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who's been sharing the show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Coiq.

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