Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 1 year ago

The cornerstones to commercializing a healthcare innovation w/ Pradeep Goel


Healthcare continues to operate on the same backend delivery models that take everyone into consideration except the direct beneficiaries of care: the patient.

It takes ingenuity, a strong understanding of commercialization, and a clearly defined value proposition to successfully disrupt such an established market.

But if you’re not careful, you might find your disruptive innovation hijacked, pushing you out of that innovation space and turning your product into just another option out of many.

A self-described serial entrepreneur, CEO, and Co-Founder of Solve.Care, Pradeep Goel knows a thing or two about commercialization and staying on task.

Tune in to hear his tricks and insights on how to take your innovation through the commercialization process and successfully to market without losing sight of your vision or losing grasp of your value proposition.


Here are the show highlights:

  • 3 key friction points to consider during healthcare co-creation (4:23)
  • Cornerstones of building or commercializing a successful innovation (13:06)
  • Are you on the path to the early market or mainstream market? (19:29)
  • Is what you’re doing fundamentally aligned with your value proposition? (26:37)
  • Why staying true to your value proposition is critical (26:37)
  • 3 questions to ask yourself about your customers’ alignment with your vision (28:08)
  • How to differentiate what process stage your solution is in (30:06)
  • Do you want to be first to market or first to profit? (33:01)


Guest Bio

With over 25 years of executive experience touching every level of the healthcare industry from insurance to public programs, Pradeep Goel is the Co-Founder and CEO of Solve.Care -  a platform based health care solution that combines decentralization with synchronization in order to connect stakeholders with each other.

Determined to redefine care, cost, and convenience for everyone, Solve.Care is poised to disrupt the healthcare industry with their revolutionary concepts on healthcare delivery, care coordination, and benefits administration.  

Pradeep earned his BE in Systems Engineering from Panjab University and has parlayed his education into a laser-defined focus on improving the administration, coordination, quality, and efficiency of healthcare.

If you’d like to reach out to Pradeep for more information, you can email him at or visit their website at Solve.Care or on LinkedIn at  Solve.Care

Welcome to Coiq, where you learn howhealth innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy,founder of Legacy, DNA and international befth selling author ofhow health innovators to maximize market success through candidconversations with health innovators earlier doctors and influencers you'lllearn how to bring your innovation, some idea to start up to marketdomination, and now, let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq. Welcomeback to the show coiq listeners on today's episode. I have pridy goal withus with salt care. He is the CEO and cofounder welcome to the show petty. Ipleas you to be here. Thank you for having me so start off by telling our listeners alittle bit about your background and what you've been innovating lately. I have spent my Ntar career in healthcare. I have cared fon me very early on in my career when I was just leavinguniversity and I spent my career really working on improving it from a patientperspective or from a physician perspective or from an administraiveperspective and along the way, I've had the really the good fortune of workingwith some really amazingly smart people, as well as governments been exposed to the healthcare, perhapsin more dimension than most people ever will be. So this has been an honor, aprivilege to to be part of the healthcare system. So you've seen things changed quite abit. Yes and I've seen things not change asat as well. You know in some ways healthcare can be maddeningly resistantto change yeah at the Oe time. You know we see change happen because it must. Imean there have been some very fundamental changes in healthcare, butI think far more needs to be done, and so what is the? What is thesolution that you've been working on most recently? So salt gares startedabout three years ago with a notion that lot of the fundamental issues thatemerge from the fact that there are the healthcarers operated on back andsysteme that are not for the patient by the patient and essentially engaged thepatient. We I have personally overseen the building ort of large elegibilitysystems, claim systems, payment systems and HRMS and ehrs, and so on and soforth, but really in all those models. We are too obsessed with okay. MyInsurance Company should talk to your hospital system and your hospitalAssistam to talk to the pharmacy system in this service of the patient, but werarely engage the patition in that process, but they're supposed to bebeneficialrings of care, yeah certais of care, but friankly. That model leadsto all kinds of unwanted circumstances and outcomeswhere we do not engage a person that matters we do not serve the person theway the person wants to be served and having overseen billions of dollars inWesteran it and enive watch or being participating in projects. Big andsmall. I came to the conclusion that we seem to be swopping colors. You knowblue box today wered box tomorrow, and we keep up creating a back and systemewith huge cost of operation, but into the day. Fundamental model is intactand it's not working, and we continue to to have this disconnact between t ebusiness processes that drive healthcare and the recipient of healthcare socation. So I started to ask myself how many more times will you dothe same system swapping and rewriting the same function to slightly betteradministred ove efficiency? But what then, what? How does this serve?Humanity An. Is that your all my learning combined? how Er does it helpthe man on the street, the family and that needs care? So pause me to sort ofleave the he comfortable purch of a corporate world and come back and say:Let's start a platform that really...

...serves the consumer, the patient, thefather, the son, the granddaughter grandmother and that allows it tocoexist with existing infrastructure, because I don't think the the answer isto blow everything up and you know replace it. The answer is to reallyfind this gaps and care and gaps and benefits and gaps and payments that wehave not been able to address for the last fifty years, and someone shouldtake that challenge and some one should pick it up and say what does patientcentric has dere actually look like and, more importantly, how does a partnerwith the existing model of health care? So we can actually combine the twogoals instead of always criticizing healthcare delivery, but not doinganything to change it sit decided to be a change agent without being aevolution without revolution, but revolution in certain parts ofhealthcare working closely with the parts that actually do work today, so so help r help me understand what were some ofthe tactics or how did you involve patiencs in this cocreation process? Soa lot of innovators don't include the stake holder group. Sometimes theydon't include anyone except for their. You know leadership team involved inthe product development process. Those that do include you knowcustomers or prospects in this process. Like you said very rarely, do I hearthat the patient is actually being considered, especially early on. Sowhat was that like for you guys? So we basically you know the good newsand bad news ar we all overborn into healthcare and the last day for life.We will be the arms of healthcame more likely than not so. Health care is insome ways easy to emulate, because you are always a patient or a parent of apatient or a son of a patient. So it's not that difficult to ask and receivethe answer, whether you're doing a control group or a large group as towhat is what would be the right way for it, you to experience healthcare, andyou know over the years I've been able to ask that question of groups very,very large, like mords populations, statewide program wide, you know of theinner circle and the close group and the Theit always goes down to you knowthree key fritin points. First is I need to understand how I can accesshealthcare, what are my rights and responsibilities and options, and it isdifficult to even begin to figure out how to even access the healthcaresystem and other than the emergency room visit, which everybody cansunderstand if you're, not in that situation, if that is not the optimalmodel of care and never is the optiman wond of care w. How do I begin thejourney of identifying my knees and Identifyn the supplier and identifyingmy rights and option? So that's the first thing, which is what you can callin nowse terms the Healthar administration side of it. The second equation that always comesup is how do I ow I'm getting the optimal hare? How do I know that I'mdoing everything I can to make myself for my Lov once healthier, and how do Iknow the doctor is actually doing everything he should be doing, and thisis not a criticism ofhas, the physician capable is a criticism of is thephysician and I fully engaged in the dialogue as we should be and given themmy average time fase to facetime. With my physician is measured in seconds, how do I know that I'm getting theOPTOMALKAR and what should I be doing, and what should the Finitian bereminded of that? I need to know so there is TA cared coordination element,the care, quality, Alamen Inthe. Third part that scares most people is who'sgoing to pay. For this, am I how a am I responsible for? What are youresponsible for? Am I being built the right amount ofhow much is insuance company or Medicare or MEDICAD will cover? ShouldI use my to say or should hy, not there's a far more question thanaverage consumer has the facilities to answer so those three things. When youlook at all criticism of healthcare,... know we all tend to solve theproblem in big strokes. Let's go to single player system, let's go to fullydecentralize care. Let's go to let's blow up the straght boundaries and makeeverybody you know, multistate those tend to be more hammerstrokes, but the real issue is that we need to make the patient able tounderstand how to access whatever program they are in multipayer singleplayer. Medicare edicate orself care. You need to understand how to manageyour care journey, and this part startles me the most that as a patient,I do not have a roadmap on where I am and where I need to end up and what arethe mouse torns in between you know, I am expected to show up a doctor. Get aCristrichan go home, take the drugs and hope everything for falls in place, butthat's it doesn't show me a ordnap on where I am where I need to be in what Ican do to go from Austona to mastr on be. Why do I not have that option likea navigation that hells me for you to avoid disease in later stages of yourlife? You have a ten year old map that allows you to to monitor certain Keyndicators, and it tells you whether you are on track to to dodge the bulletthat your parents didn't dodge. You know that cancer, or what alsimers orwhatever, so we tend to think of healthcare as curator, but we don'tthink of healthcare as a responsibility of a patient. Her is something thatthey should manage as they manage their finances and the answer always is given.Well, the patient isn't smart enough to think how cane we can manage ourfinances: R, attentions or investments our homes or mortages or car insurance,but weare, not smart enough to manageur healthcare. I'm sorry onsense, it wilthe answer. The answer is we don't provide you the information and wehaven't created a modelifocation to be engaged at that to me. Was a big gatinghole in he in the overall healthcare mindset. So when I took those look atthose three, I decided that there are many companies on asalve each of themindividually, but there is a codependency betweenthem. Access to care determines quality. Quality of CARE is colored with theability to pay and they don't. You can't solve one sore of the equation,not of the others. So we took the bold step of saying we going to buildoccation centric platform, but the patient has transparency, invisibilityand action ability on all three areas: the accessibility, the coordination andquality and outcomes and, finally, the payment. These three lugs need to cometogether and, like you know, yes, it's complex, but then what else is worth doing ifthe health care is not worth solving an? What is so? We took on this mission ofbuilding a true pation centric platform that we feel can co exist with back inlegacy or even modern systems, but it delivers a last smale connection to thepatient and builds a bridge biteen, the Patien and all other stakeholders. Thedoctor, the pharmacists, the employer, the insurer, the broker, the familymembers who need to support you and that that Cind, that cin activity thatcircle of care is what we decided to birt. So our platform launches what wecall care networks, which are the networks on which you can coordinatecare of a group populashion, a group of people. You can refer to them, oupopulation groups and you can allow cear to pear coordination, whileaccounting for the patient, privacy and and consent and rihts of all thestateholders. And it's a big deal. It's a big challenge, because silutsolutions have long been built once for bill. Then there's a lot of moneyspender more money spent on interoperability, which is connectingthes Salurs to talk to each other. Yeah and ive been a great mission ofHealthtare for the last twenty years and I personally overs seen billionsand billions pout into this interoppability Manthra. But you knowwhat you will never reach a goal witheverybody system talks to everybody, but when I need healthcare most likelyscenaro is the probability of my my...

...physician system talking to every otherkin player whose care I need is very low, and so we keep pursuing the wrongMONTHRA. So I detated to e Goin to build a platform. WER patient is theinteroperability hub. I want to be able to do things that Youar, bigintroprabity systems cannot achieve and I'm goint to do that with as easily inmy care wallet as wiping a card or you know, aflicking at deck of cord. So thenotion was: let's stop trying to do interoprability through the systamceand as to interruptability through where it actually needs to be in thehands of the patient, and I o think we ga revolutionarythought, that's very, very exciting, especially a platform business, becauseI think we need to you know, continue the conversationabout platform companies and health care. You know you see that in otherindustries, Uber Airbnb, you know and we're just starting to scratch thesurface. I think in these platform- and I think they'll be extremelytransformative and desruptive. Just like you described it's, you knowis going to be requiredfor that kind of major disruption in order to really change the system. Sofor you know, most of our listeners arehealth, innovators that are in the trenches and what you're describing issomething that's very radical, very disruptive to the status quo and thecommercialization strategy for that can be very challenging. You know trying to come up with your valueproposition in a sustinct way that people understand, because it's so unique and desruptive.So, let's, let's kind of dig a little bit deeper into the commercializationof you- know a disruptive innovation like this. What as an entrepreneur,what are some of the the cornerstones of building or commercializing asuccessful innovation? That's a great question and certainlythere is depends whon, the industry you are inand the stage of the industry you are in. But from our perspective- and thisis my fith company- that I am building so I mean many ways: A cerialentrepreneur, Altheuh at that term, is better apply to those who do it. Everyto three years, I tend to take ten years to build each company up so notalways, but certain that seems to be the the SN that I go through, and Ifind that over the years have developed a sort of a framework of bringing acompany along ecause. Commercialization is not just of the product. It's alsoof your organization. Your organization need to be ready and mature. So I lookat companies every comany that buils a sort of like a multistate journey, thetype of things, a focus on in Stage one when we are innovating, when we aresimply trying to prove that our idea has merit. You know you bring in a adifferent team around you. Thar are disruptors and innovators, and and arnot of it, to ask the what, if in the and e're, not willing, not afraid totry things that are outlanished on surface because nobody's ever done themYep, you had to bind them together into some kind of avision. So the fivethings that I worry about is okay. What is a product we're building? Who is itactually going to serve? Do I have the team that is in a position to Conto to envision and build the version of theproduct that will be disruptive but also be meaningful enough, because youdon't want distrupt just for the popof descruption wigh Oena ever value, and Ilook for partnerships. Is that my next bat concern, which is if I were to havethe product in my hands to morrow? Who is the partner? I will need to hitch my wagon to it because,particularly when Youre an early stage company, no matter how brilliant youridea is, there are certain partners that will either be threatened by youor will be enriched by you, and you better know both of them. If you don'tunderstand who's going to be threatening by you, they'll shoot youdown before you realize it, and you...

...need to be able to anticipate that. Soyou better know your enemy, the ones that actually will be yoursponsord wo, will bring you into Deos because you enrich their valisproposition. You better know them as well or better. So partnerships arefundamental in especially in industries like healthcare as your launch, Veico,brilliant ideas, don't mature into companis without a good capital partner,a good distribution partner, a good delivery partner. I Gould Sup, you knowwhatever you can do. You do well, but the others need to be in the eqosystem.So I focus on the partnership that will drive adoption, and then you look atthe pricing. How are you prissing? Your product early on, is going to bematerially different than having a priceit later on. Ther earlir. DOCTORPRICING MODEL has to be compelling enough and yet sustaining enough foryou to continue to innovay and the earlier doctors. You know tycpicallyunderstand that that you are you're an early stage product and they want tostep in with you either for thes strategic advantage or for the or thefunctional advantue they get and they have to Anto sustain you and then.Finally, you end up with the promotional element of it. You canbuild a greatest product in the world. If nobody knows about it, it's notgoing to matter and don't don't wait for miracles. You're not going to haveyou know the we all hear about anegotes for somebody, a genius idea and theybumped into you, know the angel investor in the elevator. You knowMadeperver, that's not how you plan your life or your company, so you doneed to promote carefully but yo hade to promote to who you really are notwhat you aspired to be, because people will smell the difference betweenaspiration and reality very, very quickly, so promote who you really are.Are You promoding to your destruction? Are you formorting your execution andbe clear about that, because then you will attract the right partners, thosefive things: People Product Partnerships in Ow, pricing andpromotion or what I worry about and then Wen yo. Look at these five peas.They change! What you need to understand is which stage are you inyour company is in to the Yecan say I am in the inneration phace I'm in theearly adoption phase, I' Mein ther. I have proven it I'm in the scaling stage,I'm now in the COMPETITIV stage, where people have got are starting to copy meor Copa or industries mature into where solutions like minor emerging. So Ineed to be in a a comperative station and I'm in maybe a maintinance stagewhere I need to innovate again to get back to the first stage of the cycleagan and what you the kind of people you hire on stage. One the you know theearly stage, Yo're not going to need them in the maintenance, Taye they'regoing to be bored out of their mind and many of them mole even naked stage.Three because stage, one is exciting: Fun, distructive stage to his hard word,to take the concert and turn itto real product in many of the lose interest.Withn, the idea is cool, but the execution requires a grind and thenthere's the the selling phase. When you know ppethe innovator start complaining,Whel, the marketing and sales is driving. Everything Yo no longer havethe free worll, but the fact is, you do, but you're actually come product hasmoved to a different stage. You want to have the innovation go, find the nextchallenge: Prie Augmented, but in entrepreneur struggle at themselvesstruggle to make that shift themselves, and then the team doesn't make thatshift. So that's where you run into issues, but by my answer to anyentreprenaur would be due free things understand your five peys understandthe stage you are in and align your actions to the stage Ecoe, the people,product pricing, partnerships and the type of promotion you do about yourselfis going to be dramatically different in Stagemon versu stage through andsome of the people won't carry over in the shilt carrier, because this is notwhat they want to do in their life.

So that's that's, basically the theRodna that I follow. So I completely agree with you. I think it is somission critical. You know, I talk a lot about this. Ninety five percentfailure rate and I don't do that to you know to create fear. It's just. Itis a reality, like the odds, are stacked against all of us entrepreneursand being able to bring an innovation to market and to me what you justdescribe is a very, very common pitfall. You know when people are building theirgo to market their commercialization strategies. It's very, very rare that Isee anyone put the the early adoption lends on, or themainstream market lends they're most often looking at the entire market as awhole. They might be just they might be segmenting the market based upon. Isthis a decision maker versus a user versus a payer? You know so there'ssome market segmentation, but their entire strategic lins, isn't what youjust described and and so you're setting yourself up for failure rightout of the gate without because it is so different, so you're spending allthis money all this time, hiring all the amaybe the wrong people with astrategy that is not going to put you on the right path, because it's just sodifferent for early market versus mainstream market yeah I'll, give au anexample of that that came home to me. But twenty years ago, when I was makingall these mistakes, you know the conventional wisdom was that you shouldbring in product managers to manage your product. Ord, Mahap, yeah andyould. Have the product majust develop the requirements and they should beworking with the clients, but what I realized after trying to do that- and Iwas fortunate enough to be to have built up thet company to the pointwhere I could afford to bring in product mangers why I did, and I tookmy product and I broke it up into subtracks and I put a product matage oneach one of them and it was not a great outcome, and so I had to collapse. HaProduct Nitian function back down in what I realizeis. That product is verymuch like a child. You know there is a reason why infants and thoddners aren'thanded over to other kids other pants to grow them because they haven't yetmatured enough to go out there and be taken care or by others. There is notenough definition to the product or to the child. In this case, as an analogye well, Ye can sleep over for a week. You know for a week with your grandmaor Yoen in the summer when at their house you can because they're not readyfor that independence. So products have the similar kind of cycles where, ifyou bring in people who have the ability to mature you the product tooearly, while you don't want to be mature Wel, you wan to actually be Ajo,and you want to actually be looking for that different shared value. And youneed to have the the innovator believing the product, yeah and he's apoint where you have. Let's say: Seven: customers on your product can customersnew product and they are now asking for consistency and they're. Looking forconfigurability you're looking for for support and the the defer trat to bedown, you bring in product managers and Dow to say, okay, but here is your role:Mister etoric manager. Your role is to sabilize the versions in production.While my ron is you keep looking for the next the so you need to read fine age your in, but if you bring in tosame isture with executives, if you bring in to high power to Coor to earlyon as an Entreprnou, that's EU is going to want processes and procedures andand teams that a you cant afford and even if you could afford it, Theu'regoing to get in your way, because you are looking for a execution model.That's around the cult of your personality, You'e! Looking for vision,supporters, you know Yoki lots of supporters, Weo understanding when youneed to shik the company from vision to...

...process or when you, when eeu to shipthe company from being focused on finding the next. You know highly desruptive Valy propention tocommercializing that Valye propetion for the first five customers isentirely different in how you commercilize it for the next tencustomers, because first five customers you're going to be very innevative andPresson you're going to have to be, but by the six or seven customer. You willsee a Paren to say now. I'm going to publish my standard pricing model andI'm not deviating too much why you youill still deviate, but not too muchcustomer with thirty. You can I'm putting my price on the web comint byyourself. May. The point is that you need to know where you are and if youbring in sales people who are hunters or gatherers too early on, we need tohave hunters and they ar the gatherers. You can have a real problem with semingyour products here they want everything bolted down: Yeah interfaces, products,manmals boxes, no buds, sustainable level of bags, Tine iyeaandYe have aeshet in them on a distribution Mordi and your like. Butbut I haven't figured this out. You haven't because you are bringing thewrong people so be very careful of what you wish for. Even successful companiesthat have early revenue, their Sart become profitable early oon run thewrist that they fail to see which life cycled stage there in and what ateenager can do. You know a toddler, Canat or nosheand should not, but whatan adult should be doing is little different, thin AA tanger doe. So youneed to think of your product and your company as to what stage in life theyare because companies like people go. You know, go through maturily Morrol,similar to as Metro Yep. Hey It's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from theconversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves you need to make tosurvive and thrive in the new covid economy? I want every health innovatorto find their most viable and profitable Tibic Strategi, which is whyI created the covid proof, your business to the kid. The PIPO KIT is astep by step framework that helps you find your best tivid strategy. It walksyou through six categories. You need to examine for a three hundred and sixtydegree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses, asyou make your way through this comprehensive kid, you'll be armed withthe tools, chips and strategies you need to make sure you can pivot withspeed without missing out on critical details and opportunities, learn moreat legacy: Hythan DNACOM Backla Kit, so you talked about two different groupsof people. You've got your internal team and you've got your customers, andwhen I heard you say about customers is that you know you're going to have thoseearly customers and they can hijack your product. If youdon't have the right product developer, leading the charge because they willstart to shape the features and functionality of your solution insteadof having something commercially viable, you will have something that isfantastic for those one or two customers right. Have you had that happen before? Ofcourse, I mean th the hardest thing to do as a early stage company is to pushback on the customer. Who is writing your paycheck or is at least supportingpart of it yeah and also has great domain expertis, because cosmas tend toknow their business really well, so they'r Goinnot, it's very easy for themto say, but this is logical, my business needs it yeah. He question isnot whether they needed. The question is whether you can afford to build itand should you, and is it really adding to your valueproposition because very soon, you'll find yourself looking like the productsthey already have? Yes, you can start off so revolutionary anddisruptive and they justdetroy your new business and it's not that they mean to theysimply they don't have any of the coresterence right. The point for for aentrepreneur is very simple is: is what you're doing fundamentally aligned withyour valy proposition that you wanted... bring to market yeah, which is why,knowing what stage you're in, if you're, in the innovative destructive stage andyou 're hooked up to customer that is in the process stage they're going toput make you look like the product they already know and slightly like and slightly dislike, Ete version of the product they alreadyare familiar with. If that's the model, your en, they need to understand thatyou are no longer in t e destructive phase. You are in the process stageyeah then you're pricing you ar business agenerity your partnerships,your promotions as to already be aligned with that stage, but most in awarers are not there they're, still thinking they're going to disrupt theworld, while they're building a new DASHBAR, which million other companies,are building righ. Okay, you have to stay true to your value proposition inthe stages that, where your value proplession, is your destruption yeahyeah at me saying no to customers, there could be the difference betweenpaying the paycheck or not yeah into the day. Did you want to do what yousaid You'e going to do, or are you going to just go ahead and becomeanother ousrcing shop for that lat? That struggle is real. I mean you know. Innovators are facing that every daythat that crossroad, that decision and there's such a a mental and emotionalgymnastics that happens around that decision making process and I boilewddown to the following three questions. I ask my team is ther customerinterested in the Valy propertion. We have maybe not exactly the way wethought of it, but are we making? Is the customer fundamentally respondingto our value proposition? Nix can vary but I's a Valy protion there. If theydon't even like a value proposition, they like the feature, functionality oror you know our development ability or Aur user experience or whatever. Thenyou have to make a very clear choice that you are going to solve somethingto a client that is fundmentally missaligned with your value proposition.Can you afford to do it? Sometimes it's worth doing so most t e time. It's not!The second question I always ask is: If we deliver this customer, are we goingto have residual the value learn derive from this custoner ot than revenue andis ther residual value line with our where weare going with this custonercan teach me how to make my cort product Gerrer, stronger, yeah ecausepushes me forward in the in whatever my destructive value was, then I think athe tour is warranted, but it his detroi takes me down a different partHan. You had to choose agaimn the same question back to question number. One third question here is ore: Do we havethe actual ability to deliver this customer without closing the door toother customers, because any time you become a single customer oriented, youare in deep deep trouble. Could Ha Tustbl may pay it for many reasons:internal external capital markets, criodishift, whatever it by yeah the business. So you cannot godown the path of in everybody, dreams of that customer that will redefinetheir business and Monchet, but you don't want to have the businessaccustomer that defines otheix business, Oul, succeed or Fal Yeah Yeah. That isso true. It's so much wisdom. I love what you are saying. It's so rich forour listeners and our viewers. So you know so what do you think Patty? Youknow in my mind as you train, you know, I can imagine that people are askinglike well. How do I know when I'm shifting between my like the visionstrategy versus the process strategy? I think it's product market fit likewhen I've reached product market fit it's like. Yes, I have a valuable,feasible, desirable solution. Now I can scale it now. I need these processes,you know. What do you think, so my view... that two things tat determine one iswho how what is your distribution channel? That should always tell youwhere you are hand, distribution, channel, the partnerships that you areattracting and the partner Shiltetare actually functioning. Don't talk aboutaspiration on partnership, look at where your revenue or your pipeline ofcant clients is coming from and W at that distribution, channel, Welis drugsales, the profile of your client and Profil of your partner will determineyour your maturity level and there it'sa. Is it both cause? In effect,they will shape your stage and they will also tell you what stage you arein right, because it's a a simple way to measure. Where is my revonue comingfrom? What's the profil of the client and why are they buying from me? Willtell you what stage you are in the simplest way for me to determine wherewe are in a product lifecycle? Is I look at the ECLIMB PROFIL? I look atthe partner's profile, the partners that are interested in ous thepartnents,that we are successfully being able to work with and the ones are actuallybringing us leaves and opportunities in revenue, and that typically tells mewhat Stagan, because they we not just your stage, isn't determined by just byyou. It's also the industry around you. I may be still an a hyper innevationMoD, but the industry is already is adopting that that platform or thatproduct a at a very ha fast pace. Then you better get in the process morequickly, Yep, because you can't scale if you're, highly innovative,desruptive and to some degree by necessiry, chaotic and the market is ina hyperadoption mode. So those those things are really important. But thereis no single formula, but I tend to look at revenue and partnerships or thedistibution channel in other wayd, to look at it as the key indicator wherewe need to be, and then I try to get the company there. So when we were talking before you hadmentioned a couple of different phases that I want to talk about here, firstto market and, first to profit, yes taagain! Those are, I think, if youthink about it, the depends upon your capital base, but in o mostentropreneus always think about first to market. I want to be t e first tomarket and that's more of an to me. It feels more like an ego driven thing. Iwas the best t e smartest the coolest. My prodect came at first, but I findthat companies that actually survive and grow an and a sustainable tend tofocus on first to reach profitability which enforces them they valu theipeople they product their processes, their partnerships, an their pricingyeah because you can get to first to market but not be profitable, see thefirst to fail. We first I mark Wul. You Gonao make ageat lot of great ennovation, but if your people, product process,partnerships and pricing on the line you Goinna go out of business, that'swhat's going to happen and then somebody else is going to figure out awhat they didn't do. Wright is the price it too lower, too higher ey. Theywing went off to the wrong customer, so I can do it better and tends to be.Second, trie tend to be better than first trive because we get too excitedabout being first to market, and I would rather always be first to profitbecause it's a magical thing when you have cash floowor, an even even ifyou're breaking even you, walk toller you, you think aboutdifferent things. You think about things like acquisitions or partnership.So you think about you, know breaking into new markets that aquire bit moreinvestment or you think about raising captal more as a dept than as an equityte teln that customer no you're not a right fit for US Estomerswanot a good fit for youabsotey. I would always say that you know people always say levenue. PeopleCompany should focus on revenue, true because without rebeliy there's noprofit, but I would say I would rather be the first profitable company in mysegment, which would make me infinitely more valuable than if it was a mostinnovative company. But I was lagging on profitability and others were moreprofitable than me. So first to profit is a betrer model in my mind, but it requires a lot of discipline.Tot Sometimes Youd defer your...

...innovation, because he profitabilitywill come through through more moving the product in the pocess stage quicker,and you can innovate in a way in a wait when the market profitibility will onlycome if you launch and instreme line and stanardize so but DEYCAN. But thegood thing is that you can ruan this process these phases and tero. You canhave a part of your product portfolio in the night third stage, and you canstill have pot o a portfolio and stage one as long as you understand. What'swhere you should be able to manage that. Never easy, but it is a formullifeworks yeah. So so party is, we kind of youknow just continues. The conversation here, you've shared a lot of frameworks, alot of linses that you, you know, use as your building andgrowing your business. What are what are some of the lessons thatyou've learned or advice that you would have for our listeners that are in thetrenches right now, and you know some of them have been completely shaken by this pandemic thatwe're facing right, depending on where they were in the growth stage of theircompany. An you know what advice do you have forthem? So when it comes to the pindemic, Ithink this is a monumentol global disruption and if youare struggling,don't be dishartened, everybody struggling theyr just dealing with adifferent way and your goal should be just survive. The pandemic an and comeout of it and than in itself is an achievement.You know even focom is big and highly capitalized. This is a major goal justto survive it and for started his tenx harder so to peer one. Last week andthey're going bankrupt, I went in and they had going out of business, and Isaid Oh man you're, closing down this location and they said No. Our wholecompany, like we just we, were on shaky ground before the pandemic and to beclosed for two or three months. It just killed US pier one, even Runin, yes,big names. You know right now struggling with and wondering what thepantemic o to them and how long will take. We have hospital systems that to generate billions a year in a monthin Ravenue that have empty corridors and they don't know how to pay for theinfrastructure that they have and they can eter up. Thei mean you got airlines,you got hotals, you got two or operators of all kinds. You got. You know all hospitality industry andan we know the MAS statistics right now right. So I think my advice of theENTROPRNEUS, including my own team, is keep your head. Get your head down,don't shoot for simply getting out of this pondemic with your team in Thactat least your quote team an that and the ability to fight again you don'tneed to. Of course there is opportunity to hyper inavate right now inhealthcare, no doubt but without distribution, his hyper innovationisn't going anywhere. So, even if you have the best cobid nineteen trackingapplication, if there are not distributors Weing to take it up, thenyou are not going to see there arwire of your investment right a I in thewait right now focus on where the distribution channel is or imminentdistibition channel. You can find otherwise great ideas right now of gestput on the shelf to be picked up later. So Im focus on my number one hous whendiscover nineteen really hit us was to tell everybody. This is our survivalplan. We are going to get this together through this we're going NA cut thesecosts. We'r going to put all these ideas on fold Wen a focus on deliveringwhat we should be delivering to a very well defined, rebeny source, and thatsaid everything else ar te all exciteme alcal stuff rereputting on shop. Eventhough we are a hyper innvative company, that's not werewe going to put ourmoney Goin to put the money in pulling...

...this company through this prisis andthat has paid off route because, as we are starting to emerge from this th,there is a backlog of opportunities that is starting to come out and theteam is ready, andable to attack them. ECON TAT, I will say you know mypersonal lesson is again what I've been saying throughout the show be mindfulof the stage you are in. I have made mistakes where I moved too earlythinking that product is more mature. The market is ready to distribute meand fail to price it correctly. So the people around you must match the stageyou are in and don't be afraid to recognize a fact that the team thatbrings you from stage want to stage to will probably not be the team that'llbring you from stage to the stage three. This is not disloyalty. This is not acruelty. It's just that different teams play at different times of your productand company Life Cycle. They know it. You know it be very clinical about it.I need to mature, I need to forget, focus on my process orientation, I'mgoing to bring process leaders I'm no longer in the innovation face, and youneed to be e to tell that to your team. We're going to shift. You wire, welcometo shift with me, but I'm going to shift the company anywhere without you,because I have no the choice that would be my dvice yeah gold gold. I say you know, and a lot ofthese things are, you know, maybe even things that weknow, but we need to hear it. We need to hear somebody else say it. We needto see that there are other people facing these same challenges or similarchallenges and in then it's you know just sharing this wisdom, I think,gives innovators permission to take the action that they probably know deepdown inside that they needed to take up for a long time, absolutely yeah. Sothe last question for you is, you know we touched on this a little bit. Youknow just he, the emotional and the mental wear and tear ofentrepreneurship. So how do you stay motivated and inspired during this journey? Well, there are days when you are notmotivated and inspired. You wondering if you have assumed a certain specifictype of lunacy, but I think it always was ente to me a couple of things. One is you know Iremind myself of. Why did we start doing this in the first place? What isyou know? You revisualize the the end goal, t e the the perfect outcome and you step backwor, Som there and say: Where are we on this journey and typically whatreinspires me is when I see how far we have come? Niffican in your mental maphave a sort of timescale or a journey map, and you can say wow three yearsago we were literally sitting here in this room with an idea on a wite with awhite board yeah two ous, an Ho Weare, a hundred hifty percent company withclients woar wide- and we are you know, we're not on our way to certain love,ut, whatever you have accomplished, wheth its product or people orprocesses, and you have to remember and measure your progress, because everyday is a struggle and some days you are fatigue and you' wondering how muchlonger you have to struggle, and we don't measure with the progress you'vealready made. So look back and measure go back to the journey. The day westarted and see how far you've come and then visualize. Clearly, where you'regoing and then the gap doesn't feel so big because you cedtainly realize it,you have done abot, the other is just you know. I find thatwhen I'm truly at a point where I need to decompress or to re energize, I tendto take some solid time. I tend to go away, and I know it's very difficultfor entenor to do is hard for me and there's always a sentation to bringsomebody along your executive team to brainstorm or your family, because theydon't see you very much yeah all the...

...time that Solo time will give you moreinsights about yourself how you're dealing with issues. What is reallybothering you on the third day, you'll wake up a three and Wen. Now I get itby why I'm upset about something or why sometim is not working so that solartime is very important. I before cood nd Ninetneen, I e go hikinginto into the sumnational forest of the other two three days alone, just sothat I could could give my brain the chance to reassimilate all theinformations fording around in it. And the third thing that I find reallyhelps me is coaching and mentors so join some kind of a pear group networkthat is made up of executives in your role or higher whethirs a see a pork orsomething Andi be surprised because entrepeus know what they want to do.But what they don't realize is the world moves in waves? What they'redoing other people are doing similar things, maybe in a different industry.So it's very important to find that ter groups you're not alone in this journey,because it does feel very lonely. Most of the days Yeah Wolce, you have staffand you got ta pay them and you gotto sell to clients and you go ar marketingand you're, surrounded by Keyp all Biti ad, very lonely journey. So you need toknow that other people are following are in a similar journey, just walkingten inches away from you on their own track with all these tracks. Hat Tun,AP, therollog, yeah, MES, always startling, because I alwo think I'munique with my issues with my thoughts with my ideas with my challenges andthen the guy next door is basically grappling with Ninty anps on the sameissues, so you know party, that's the whole premise of this show is to be tohave people like you come on, be candid, be transparent about the struggles. Youknow not just the winds, but the challenges, the pitfalls and, and sothat way we can link arms together as like this entrepreneur, ecosystem inhealthcare and say: Ah I'm not the only one. Okay, I mean, I think that itgives so much encouragement and inspiration to stay the course, becauseyou know what we're doing is hard. It's not it's not easy, yeah, bsolutely andthe only reason you're doing it is because what's doing yeah becausethere's a patient, a caregiver there's somebody on the other side of the workthat we're doing. That's counting on US Yeah Yep. So as we wrap up, how can our listenersget a hold of you if they want if they have questions and they want to justget in touch with you after the show? So there is on our. We have lots of public channels.We have telegram group for Selfcare. We have infloet Sovdort Care, which iscontinuously monitored. That's an email address we use to gather input. I visita lot of conferences and speak. At least I used to ind Iwell, probablyresume again in the next few months, but Athinklhy Inforit solt car in asoltware telegram, channel or places where we interact with our worldwidecommunity. We have tens of thousands of people in the channel who continuouslytalk to us. Doctors, clients, patients, idea, generators, blotching, you know,initiate innovators, so we get lots and lots of input from them. But ifsomebody sends a message theyre saying they need to speak to me typicallywithin a day or two, I can get them get back to them. Excellent. Well, thankyou. So much for spending time with us today, Tis be my pleasure. Thank youfor having me on the show Yeuh. Thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and Ivawue your time and your attention to save kind and get the latest episodeson your mobile device automatically subscribe to the show on your favoritepodcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listeningand I appreciate everyone. WHO's been sharing. The show with friends andcolleagues, see you on the next episode...

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