Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

The Beauty of Rapid Cycle Innovation w/Jeff Gasser

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Running a business can feel a lot like raising a child: anything can happen. What are some of the key decisions we can make in order to be more adaptable to shifts and changes? Why is saving money in the early stage of a company so important? How can rapid cycle innovation influence our success?

On this episode, Deerwalk CEO Jeff Gasser shares how he turned his health innovation into what Amazon health considers one of the best life science companies in the country.

He’ll walk us through his key entrepreneurial do’s and don’ts, the need for a minimum viable product, and capital-raising myths. He also shares on building lifelong business and customer relationships and how each innovation you commercialize is building the legacy for your next one.

 

3 Things You'll Learn

  • How to be efficient with product strategies
  • Why critical customers are actually a good thing
  • The importance of finding early adopters

 

Running a business comes with many phases and challenges, and you need to be ready to pivot and shift accordingly. Having an ego and being too focused on your specific plan gets in the way of your success. The important thing is creating what people actually want and care about, and understanding how you’re going to distribute the product.

Instead of over-developing a product, focus on very small, incremental and agile product roll-outs. That way, your company moves fast and can react to market forces more readily.

Welcome to Coyq and first of its kindvideo program about health, innovators earlier doctors and influencers, andthey ar stories about writing the roller coaster of healthcareandnovation. I'm your host, Dor, roxy, founder of Legacy, DNA marketing groupand it's time to raise our COIQ on today's show how Jeff Gosser turnedhis health care inovation into what Amazon health considers one of the topsixty life science and healthcare midmarket companies in the country,jeff the innovator behind eearwalk, is going to turn everything upside downthat we think we know about the health care commercialization process. Welcometo the show Jeff, thanks for having Me Rock! Thank you. So, let's start offthe conversation today by telling us our audience a little bit about yourbackground and what you do so I I've been in health care for fortyyears, I'm a CPA by training. I got my first job as at auditor or CPAand out of e the USF medical schools and actually got involved that our firmhad is theclient. Our clients was the guys Itin Benegato rate, so the doctor of it anBaigato rate actually used as tax return and became the the auditor ofall these dialysis cliks and I kind of got the entrepreneurial bugfor doing his tax returns and seeing how much money he got from the UAGAaready trust every year and as what it was calledg I can still seeit, and- and really you know got involved- is asa cfal of dialysis clinms had a big job opportunity. When I was twenty three, Ithought that you know was going to be. You know, sort of a path I would takeand then my chance to start. My first company came up when I was big twentyfive I doinge math right and I quit bad job, which is pay me pretty well toC F, O wit thirty milliondolar company, and to make zero and start the firstcompany that I got involved with twenty four or twnty fenty five right in thereyeah yeah someand, it's sort of been one after the other. I've done five ofthem. So first one was in real estate. It was a relocation company and but the last formal, biin healthcare,carto pediatric home care business got it started a doctor group that ended upgetting acquired, Bya publicly traded, subvecube company got it started.Another analyss company called DT Kake up twenty years ago and then dearwalktoday with one of my old partner founders of Tto Teche. Hawkeycall me up to start this company Ruder Pandy, chairman of our company, and thetwo of US started this in two thousand andten. So you ju, live in t theglamorous life of entrepreneurship. Since you were twenty five years oldyeah, we quite called gwars. How would you you know one of those things that youeither habit or you don't you know for me, I guess is I we've come across risks in my life. I always decided to take the risk. Inever shied away from it, and I guess because I always figuredwhen I got to be older and was looking back on my life. I probably wasn't going to say I wish Ididn't take that risk. I probably Sai. I wish I did take that risk and in factI remember when I was the CFL of that dialysiscompany, I had a chance to get involved with startup. I you know being anaccountant. I did a TA account for...

...those that don't know what that is. Youbasically make a tea and you put the assets or the pros on one side to putthe liabilities or cons on the other, and so I thought WELLN. If I quit myjob to make zero. What could happen and the best thing that could happen isthis thing would be wildly successful and I be really rich and cul. I livewith that and I thought well God yeah. I coul live with that a wint be theworst thing that could happen. I thought well it go banrupt. It couldn'tbe once I wron banrupt Righ II. So what would happen if it wen't banrupt and Ithought well, I'd probably have to go out and get a job, and I thought wellwhat would that job look like, and I thought well look something like thejob I have right now then, once I realized that I was livingthe horsecase scenario, oh here, to take the risk wow, that's huge yeah!That's why I ended up every time. I look at it. I realize if I don't takethe risk, I'm living the worst case scenario right, right, wow, so soyou've launched and I think, sold five different companies Ani've been acofounder of Fu by Fol Thiss, okay. This is okay, so you're running thefifth one right now, yeah yeah eight years into it really have, and actuallyI would tell you I'm having more fun than I've ever had. I never imaginedthat I mean I really thought I'd be Kickim back at this point in my life,not flying three hundred thousand miles a year, fro'm having the time in mylife. So right you know I new. This is retirement, because this is what I would do. If I hadanything the choice of doing anything, Yeah Yeah,so so so if I asked you to come on the show and tell your story, because youknow commercialized in innovation in healthcare is really hard, it's reallycomplex and I think entrepreneurs and health innovators need to hear moresuccess stories, and you know like we talked about before you know: it's notthe glamorous life, always maybe sometimes not ever, but you know,there's always going to be bumps along the road. So tell us a little bit aboutthat and you know what were some of the obstacles that you've had to overcome.You know thinking about deer, walk in the last ten years. Well, for starters, in the in the beginning,part of the company, Ruger Handyar chairman, and I both youknow were at the prior company. I left, I think, maybe two years before he did my acompete was up. So when we started this company we had you a. We have to live with hisnoncompete right, but we really just decided to do custom program. Well, I let me say this: We started bytalking for an entire weekend for the most part and trying to figure out whatit was we do, how to do. It took an entire weekend to try to figure outwhat it was we how to do, but we kind of came down to sort of two things e. We sort of knew how to transformhealthcare data. We were pretty good at that. We had done it a lot. You knowmore than most people and we knew how to run an international operation,because our prior company, thanks to Rud Right, had a a big operation,Catman Doin Napaul, he said he's ordinative and really we knew how to run that, and soeverything we've done in this company has sort of been anghered on those twoknowledge bases, but we couldn't build anything withoutrisking being sued. So we, you know, we started just doing customprogramming for a year and then it then we decided that instead of building haproduct suite based on database architecture, which is what pretty mucheverybody in healthcare uses, we decided that we were going to try toapply no sequel technologies or was...

...true big data technologies at I, bigdata and database aren't really in the same setence. People tend to put them in the samesentence: think of hi search engine technology and we're going to try toapply that to the healthcare data problem and to do that we had to bringin technology or CTO comes from outside healthcare.It was friend O Rugras, a broliant young guy that that helped to do thatthat to twenty seven months, because it wasn't like we just went outand bought a sequel license or an oacle license and built something. We had tosort of build this entire back ind first and then we got ' trying to rememberexact dates of this, but we got to into it. You know we got some Bata customersgoing and we were. We were kind of moving along and you might remember, the Catman doearthquake, so I woke up one morning. It was, Ithink it was April twenty. Fourth, I think it was two thousand and fifteen amout have en sixteen, but I remember waking up that mored thinking this company might be over. I mean Imean we had our retire operation was over there and it we couldn't find people, and I didn't know how we dig out it out ofthat, and so it took us six days to find everybody wlow our you know we did all the all thekind of engineering and data processingeverything stays in the US, but people actually run in jobs and so forth, AEAin the pall and they were gone and our infrastructure was shot and withinwellwhat we did was we started working like you know, dogs in the USto keep up the processing for our customers? Thank God. It wasn't thatbig at that time and we we had a big basketball court, anoutdoor basketball court in our campus in the Paul, and we we built a roof across it and stronglires and people all of t e. We set up work stations in the basketball courtcovered by a roof, an outdoor, basset tol with wires strung to it, and that'swhere our employees Werc until we could rebuild the infrastructure in such away that we cound move back into it. So it was a really really crazy time and I mean Hav. Threeof these companies have Hav had moments like that that you were on the brink of you know,losing the business or going bankrupt. You know were really that rattled yeah yeah, I mean the dthawkey theprior company, just to give another example. We started that company inAugust to two thousand and one we ere just gipping off the ground, and I wasin a plane, heading west, on the same kind of planes that went into the toweron nineeleven. I thought Nin eleven was going to kill that company wow yeah,there's youknow things happen. I think almost everycompany people I talk to they all have these experiences that you're going toget a test, multiple tests and you just have tofind a way somehow some way to get through it all so so how did? How did you overcomethat particular experience, or even just you know, as you look back on yourentrepreneurship journey over the last, you know thirty, forty years, you knowwhat what do you do to stay positive to stay,motivated and encouraged, and you know to have the belief in the faith thatyou're going to be able to overcome...

...some of these things. That are, youknow, unpredictable. That's not something that you're going to be ableto. You know identify in a business plan of how you're going to overcomethose things you just have to be positive. o justhave to have faith Ye Hav, the you know you so the thing about these things are, is you well, you see all sorts ofpeople in life avovercome, so many things, and then you look, you look atthem and you say wow what a what an amazing person that you know that theywere able to overcome this or that and frankly those folks are. But what Iwould tell you is that anybody else would be like that too. Ifthey're put that, maybe not everybody, but if you're put in that situation,something really bad. You have no idea what you're capable of YEP until you'rein that situation and then another gear kicks in. Maybe it's adrealine. I have no idea, but your mind just starts working and thinkingthrough okay. Where is the daylight where you knowI'm in this darkness? I got to find this little bit of daylight. I've gotTA, focus on the daylight and figured how to get there and every you know.I've been through it now so many times. If yeah you W get there, but every Itell you your first reaction is this: could sink us usand it'sit's, it's kind of like you know, you're in a sporting eventand you're feeling really positive, and you know like a football team and yougo out, maybe your quarterback and in the first play you throw aninterception for a touchdown for the other tea. Let's not talk about the saints in thePlayofso, so, let's kind of flip the coin a little bit. You know as you, youknow, as you think about this. What are some of those things that you thinkwere just gain changers for you, as you think about the the you know, ourlisteners, who are fellow entrepreneurs that are very likely in the trenchesright now. You know what are some of the things that maybe you came acrossin your journey to be watchful, for maybe it was a a key customer, a keyrelationship, something to do with your strategy. Youknow what are some of the things that you think were decisions that you made.That really impacted your success in ways that maybe you wouldn't have beenable to project. Well, I always look when I try tofigure out who's going to be the customer think about aggregators. I tryto Fik alt ways. I can sell the product to people who already have multiplecustomers and somehow sell it through that hey've already got relationshipsbecause you ow either got Ta, hire twenty five sales people to cover thecountry orhire one or two people to find people who already have all thosecustomers right. So in our space today we have competitors that so most mostemployers over two hundred D, fifty lines or selfinsured. One of ourmarkets is selling in selfinsured employers and help analytics telt. Themanalyze I going on with their employe benefit plans. We have competitors, toill knock on thedoors of five hundred life companies. We don't. I nowmasof people who have like third party administrators benefitconsultants, people like that who are relationships with them, because that's I just can't figure outhow math works honeof, those sore. As result, we have lottle under a hundred customers today,but we have there's. I think we added it up. There', just under fourteenthousand employers in the United States, eself is...

...their datas on our application throughone of our relationships now direct relationships with employers-that are, I mean ones, a fortune. Fifty company, if I said their name,everybody would know it instantly, but most of them come through one of theseother relationships, understanding how you're going to distribute the productis addy years ago, when I was involved with my pediatric,Come Care Business. I remember we were en taken around ther, O privateequity people, and I still can remember this one guy asking me in the earlydays of the company. What's your exit strategy exit strategye still trying to figureout the entrance ste we exi strategy, and so you know ultimately you do. Ithink it's also helpful to figure out what are? U What Dore You building thiscompany? For I I mean there's, there's a lot of good reasons to build that youcould say. I want to build this for my family, so my children could beinvolved with it and so forth. An hopefully it'll be a livyse situation.For many ear, or you know, some people are trying to build to go public. Youknow some people are building it one day, probably going to sell Ip to alarger organization. I mean understanding that is important becauseo decisions you make maybe different, depending on what you believe, what youbelieve your inswir strategy will ultimately be, and so we were you talking earlier. Youwere saying that building of Businessis like raising a child, talk about that yeah. It's because youdon't know what it's going to become right. You don't know what it'sbecomeand even today, you know we're a midsize midmarket company, which I youknow when Amazon said that about us. I thought my God, I didn't fee it. I you know, Snot Knos O be, and so you don't and one of the mostmost interesting things about building a company. Is You don't know what willbecome its up? You like when children you try to give them o your best advice,but I always felt like it's like trying to manage a snowball rolling downhill.You can't really control wher, it's going. You can try to keep it fromhitting tree. I think that's kind of what I do is I try to keep our companyfrom hitting a tree. I so many moving parts and the biggeryou get e, the more moving parts there are and- and you keep learning so I asnot very much still learning this this companyis getting to be bigger than anyof the other. I think it's ecept for one, but I really wasn't an.I was on the board altimately when I got that big, but this is the biggestthat I've been involved with on the management team. So it's challenging to me to see how goodI can be an doing this or you know the jury's out on me is well L. Tell youright right, but just like parents right exactly yeah it was. I tell the reasonthat looking back on it over these years, I don't now. Maybe fifteen years ago Iwas having lunch with this lady at Denver Children's Hospital. When I wasout there and they had a you know, an our pediatric businesscalled cangaroo. Kids- and you know we were just Ji Chattit, the beginning, Othe lunch, and we were talking about what we had done in the past and I saidW I found cofound et that company was a dear friend of mine and she said, Oh,she said really. She said we mideled our ETIRE pety ASEME CPEDATRIC businessoff of what you built wow and I thought wow. That's you know, that's why you dothis, you don't do the money. You do this because the money you could losetomorrow, but nobody can sort of take that away. You know that you that youknow we did something pretty cool over...

...there and I'm glad we did and N An. I guess, similar ton,satisfaction as a parent. When you see your you know, your kids grow up andthey're doing fine and and you're proud of them youre verysimilar. I think that's great, so the other thing that I wanted to kind oftalk about and share with our audience is this idea of sinly capitalizing, your companies and startup right andreally it sounds like just really functioning with that wean mindset. Allthe way through the evolution and lifecycle of the company talked bout. Talk about that a littlebit. Well, I you know, I think private equity, particularly for youngcompanies, is more of a curse than a blessing. You know you have to ask yourself: Whyare you raising money? Are you raising money so that you can have soury amarket rate salary? Because you know I don't see where that makes alot of sense? For starters, why why do I want to give up ekwithy to somebodyto raise money? Just so I have a salary. I likein this company course Hav been alittle bit different financial situation. You know starting deerwalkat. I was starting the first one, so this one I worked for free for threeyears and Sodid Regra and sodid several of our people, because it it mitigatedthe Ne for capital. So now we're at this size. You know whataver. Ninety two percent of ourcompany is owned by employees and just a small amount by friends and familythat we allowed to invest in and for the most part they asked us to invest.We Didn'ha even Aske them when I was young, my first one, I think I workedoff. I think my salar was a hundred a fifty dollars a week, so you just- andI just figured out what I could eliminate you know from my bills, so that mymonthling ot is an individual was as small as possible and to be able to sustain that for as longas possible to get the company to the point where eventually it could affordto pay a little bit more and that's, and so, when you do that, you think of things ways to do thingsthat are that you would not do if you had tons of money I'll give you I'll give you to oneexample. Example we even I deerwalk. We did this. You know,there's trade show ECAUSE, there's industry shape trade shows. If you havea lot of money, you're going to spend tens of thousand dollars on boose on.You know all kinds of collaterals and try to make a splash of that trade showand the truth of it is, depending on the trade show, there's there's so manybigger companies that have massive display and nobody even Seez ers anyway. We couldn't afford to you, know evensign up for the trade shows, so we just go sit in e Bar Einthe bar we Wurd and we trad to setup meetings at the trade show. So all the customers were there right.pecifically try to set up meetings. We have fifteen twenty meetings at edit ata triht show sitting out in the rivery the hotel because it was efficient. Youmake one plane flight in. You have yeah wow your hotel room, they have fifteentwenty meetings and fly out mean that's how you you know. That'sone way to save money in an early stage company and yet still be able to go othese things and see as many people as you can say. But if you look throughall all parts of Your Business, you could find all kinds of things you cancut out and figure out some way Tus to try to do it. officiently if you can be creative. So then let'stalk about the efficiency with product strategies,...

...so you know a lot of healthcare.Innovators have a tendency to want to you know if they have the resources topile every feature in functionality that they can into that innovation- andyou know I've seen if they've. If they raise a million dollars, you know thermight be putting seven hundred and fiftyhusand or more of it into theproduct, and then really you know when it comes to two different things: Standout one. Youknow there's a lot of extra features and functionality that the targetmarket doesn't really even want once it goes to market and then to they, don'thave any resources or extremely little resources to actually commercializetheir innovation or go to market, so speak to what your experience was inthat process and what were some of the variers or obstacles or some of thethings that you did, that you think influenced your sucfess. Well, wedidn't do that. I guess for starters, right in try to be AI, were here havingthis conversation, that sounds like a fine way to was sefiftysandols. We didn't do that. What whic you have to understand is, Ithink it was. I think I think this is a MI. Tyson quote is: Is that you know aplan. An a strategy is great until you get punched in the mouth Uhhuh, and soyou just have to realize when you do this you're going to go out and getpunched in them out a lot and, and so what we do is we have an anchiledevelopment process. We every time we try to build a product.We look to have one of the Vari minimum requirements. We think to be able tosell it and that's usually something we can develop and say you know ninety toa hundred and twenty days, and then we have a new release. Every four weeks on our our plan analytics product whichis sort of a flagshar product rest where I think we're on our eight fifthrelease now. So you know eighty five consecutive months of releases and and some of those releaseswere sort of Presale, if mean even the ninety down or twenty days was, was,was presale and then, when you got to find our some people mean come one way or the other that arewilling to be Guinea. Pigs be willing to be your first customers yeah and aryou know- and I always I don't- try to give this stuff away for free, because he'll value it as much as they paid forit. Sho Ou, if they're paying you money, they're going to be more critical,they're going to tell you what they do like and don't like if ther, if they'renot paying anything, they may not even use it and they're certainth. So what's theirincentive to kind of complain and so forth and and people that sort of give? U Themost grief, which is a tendency to think all these guys are just you know,pains in the Butt and you know heck with them Te. Those are your bestcustomers, they're called your QC departments, right right, right ones,telling you what you're not doing well so e, we have had, you know gos some of our earlycustomers still with us, so I just met with one. I guess it was yesterday or the daybefore. I can't even remember- and it's just it always so gratefulwhen I meet them because they were, we had a lot more blamishes. Then we putit that way and they stuck with us and and then you have to listen to that, sothey provide content and it's going to get. You know several of these kind ofcustomers. You know somebody might give you someidea that it might be unique to them. You know you might be going down arabble, whereas if two or three people are saying the same thing for somefeature they like to develop, I mean it's also helpful for you to stand backand say: Okay, they've asked for this. Does this seem like it's something thatwould make sense for a broad audience...

...or not, and I mean there's a lot ofways you have to decide what you want to put in he roadmap, but but I would you know, I'm a bigbeliever. I wasn't always our Cgo, who I would I would say thisthere's been two people in my life that have taught me more than anybody elsethat I've worked with what he's the only one that he's theone who Chunger to me twenty one years younger than Tey. Ah, I've learned morefrom him than I'm just so blessed he's with us he's now, er Clo and he's theone that I used to argue with about you know. Ethey were releasing to to twosoon like these four weeks. Prints were we're to too quick and he's heconvinced me. Otherwise he was absolutely right. Small sprintsachievable and just keep rolling it out, that'sand tha, and so you can kind of pivot. When you see opportunities or if yousee Yore, going down a wrong road, that's that's kind of the way to go.That's that's been the key for what we've done here, I'm sure of it. So soit sounds like you're describing like right. Rapid Cycle Innovation- and you know this agile methodology andenvironment for innovation. So you know how do you think that that's reallyinfluencd your success if you weren't structured that way in built yourentire product development process around that, you know, how do you thinkthat that would make a difference for you, meaning if we didn't have an agileprocess? Yeah, if you, if you, if you weren't doing that cyclical short terminnovation, where you're continuously pumping out new innovation, but it'svery small and incremental so you're, not ever in he process where you'reoverdeveloping yeah? Well, what I would say isowhat', what's great about thereason that I think, if you, if you're, not doing it this way, you need toconvert to to it it this way because you'll you'll you'll create stuff.Nobody cares about plus its it's. It's sort of what Atlet me give you thebenefits, the marketing benefits from what we do catso every month. We've got new release offeatures that then we can take out and push out to. Every prospect of this iswhat happened this month and then ther molt will push it out and what whatI've seen from our we got. So we got a brilliant sales team to our chiefGROLIF officers. You know most towns and sales kind of or I'm just, I feellike I'm a dogot managing a bunch of superstars banbecause. I am but th t you you every month you keep pushing thes stuffout and then the prospects get this sort of fear of being left out right,because our competitors don't do this right. They do the every six monthsevery year, so we've got a prospect that has that we're trying to getbusiness from somebody else, they're seeing nothing new and whatthey're, using and every month somebody from our company is sending them anupdate, we're not even hard selling. We just said hey what just so you knowthis is what we did this month just so you know this is what we did this month and and actually I was on a call this weekwith a very large prospect for us that we tried, for, I think three or fouryears ago we didn't get it. We were too small really at that time not come backto us and so what we didn't ase put to get a powerpoint of all the featuresthat we've developed every quarter in the in the couple of three four years,whatever it's been since they've been with us and it's like. So this is whatyou missed out:...

A for persuasion, yeah. So, but youknow it's one thing to just put a list together, but it's another thing whenyou just because people say: what's your roadmap going forward, I like tosay: Let me show you what we've done in the last year know whether to believe me or not onthe roadmap going forward, I'm going to tell you some good stuff going forward,but let me show you what weve done by month over the last year and you decidewhether you think I can roll that out pretty persuasive argument we found soso what was it like? Getting your first customers and you know early in the beginning? Well, you know you just sort of you you reach. I mean what I do when Istart a company. Is I literally go back through everybody that I know, and Ijust call everybody I know and tell them what I'm now doing, Imeanas that Ijust stay on the phone and you know reconnect, and I would say that, forevery company, your your throughout your life, you have tounderstand that every relationship you'r building isnot for the thing you're doing at the moment. It's an asset, you retain for the restof your life and so obviously, as you get older, you have more f those assesor people to call when you, when you when you're younger, but you just youjust call everybody. You know and people will say. Oh you need to talk tothis person and you need to talk that person and you're going to find peoplewho are open to whatever it is you're doing s as long as you're you'remeeting some sort of Markete, because hey'se going to be somebody saying yeah,I 'e got something in that area. I'm not really happy with it. Surei'll havea look at what you're doing or theyre saying I don't have anything I'd like to see it so, for example, in our industry twenty years ago withour prior company, almost everybody, I talked to had nothing so the challenge there wastrying to explain to them that they didn't know they had a needbecause they had nothing sou o. There was a need, and now that there'sa need, this fits that need right, right, AAs, one challenge. By the timewe had started this company, which would have been- I guess, nine yearsafter that or nine or ten, the industry had changed. So everybody had somethingin part because of what we had built before, not exclusively us, but we contributedto it. Now we had to go in and say you alreadyhave something. This is better than that thing you already have, including to some people who had boughtfor me before. So it's Ni got a Cana ecaie an EBI ut. I soldyou and I sold at Wa Ati aandootoc Ait, because there wasn't a calike beforethe Vewae as the best thing. The last time so great responds yeah, there'sdifferent. There are different challenges. Ittle differ depending onwhat people are doing, but they'll find there's. There are people out thee,pespective customers that want that are early adoptors by that's theirpersonality. You've got to find the earlie doptors from a customerperspective who are willing to take a chance and they'll try to take. Youknow a pound of flesh from me and pretty much got to give it up. You know,but I would say, don't give it away yeah, that's something for because otherwise that you want theminvesten in it. It's just you just have to work. Itthere's no magic. It's so I said it's not glamor. She just gotto tick up thephone start, calling ca, just Gonta work, so so its we wrap up here. I have onelast question for you. So we've got a...

...lot of listeners out there who arehealth, innovators, theyre in startup or early stage mode. What are two orthree lessons or recommendations that you want to share with them that wehaven't already talked about that that you recommend for them. Well, I would say a don't quit right. It's really easy toquit, don't quit! Sometimes you know youdon't know what Struckeou you signed up for you know the first thing I did Ithought we'd know you know whether it was a hit or not ninety days, Wol thatthat was. That was not the case Eah that particular company. It just took along time to take off, but but if you don't quit, you eventually Figtin inyour and you're adaptable you'll. Eventually, you know find success. Tthe second thing is: Don't don't get lacked into you know some business Pian.That says this is how we're going to do it, because the only thing I know aboutany business clam that's ever been written. Is it's Rong? You know it'sjust wrong and Yoo know what's going to work until you get out there, so I youhave to be very flexible, including you know not getting your ego caughtaftarnd. It's like that. Well, I thought of this and my God this isgoing to work the way I wanted to work. It's that's not how you know. That'sjust not how life works and- and the third thing is the the people that yousurround yourself with and particularly as you get bigger the thing that the quality that I think for me. WhyI'm able to make this work? Is I really hate to lose that's theroundid bypeople that hate to lose more than I do, and you really have to hate to lose andand as an example of that, I heard a coupleweeks, awe ha. We have a competitor that somehow got some cheap packit.They couldn't figure out what they kept losing to us and and then the at the Csweete level. I don't know if it's true or not, but at the C sweet Tibl they ythey're feeling is well we're just it's coming down to price where for lowballing, the price? That's that's! Why we're winning- and I kind of smile atthat, because not that it that's wrong and they'rethinking the wrong thing is that I know if you're making, if you think that andyou don't hate to lose, because I never think we lost, becausesomebody just underbid us I you know, I think what did I do wrong? What did wedo wrong? What could do we do better, the next time and and if I'm not doing it, everybodyelse on our teams doing it, because we just you know we our feeling, is youknow you might be just once on something but t aneer happening again. Just have to have that attitude,because you're going to lose a lot more than you win, we lose a lot more therwe went and and but you can't make excuses foryour losses. Ou, you know the best asset for notitrapreneur is a mirror.You know you just need to be able to look in the mirror and because that'susually who the blame is the person on the other side of the mirror. To dothat, you, you know you kind of have the attitude to persevere. Yep Live Ind,learn right and be willing to look at ourselves in the mirror. Well, thankyou. So much for that Golden Wisdom. You know it's hard to believe. You knowyou and I met ten years ago and you've taken this company from you know. Youand your team have taken this company from nothing to today. I know that youhave a million lives on your platform, nor seven million men Jestin for what,by the end of this year, we think about ten. I mean we know we're going to beover nine, maybe tin, if we wit a...

...little bit of luck. So we'll see that'sgreat yeah. We went from it. Give you a perspective of the trajectory. We wentover five million and October in well be over seven million in end of thismonth. Congratulations Yeah, Nice and you stayed really humble, really modestand you've done. I you've done a fantastic job. Congratulations on all your successthan you! So so jeff as we wrap up here, tell our audience how they can get ahold of you. What's the best way for people to connect with you, if there'ssome innovators out there that want to ask you some, you know questions in thefuture. Oh sure you can reach out to me an win in or my email is j Goser,Jvasszra, drwalkcom fel free to shoot me an email or reach out to me on linked in I love. You know talking to people and a Lovlearning about their businesses. Anyway, it s it's fun, so happy to help. If somebodythinks of some, I can do to be of assistance. Tat Be happy to help well,and you know the whole reason we have this show is because we're all in thistogether right and my success is your success and your success is theirsuccess and it's really going to take all of us to be able to move the needlein health care. It is, and it's fun hearing everybody's story because Ere'ssome really cool stories out there yeah absolutely I'm the lucky one that getsto interview Ali you and hear all these stories. Well, thanks for your time, Jeffappreciate it until next time everyone bye bye. What's the difference between launchingand commercializing a health care, novation many people will watch a newproduct. Few will commercialize it to learn the difference between latnchand commercialization and to watch past episodes of the show head to our videoshow page at Dr Roxycom. Thank so much for watching and listening to the showyou can subscribe to the latest episodes on your favorite podcast, APPlike apple podcasts and spotify, or subscribe to the video episodes on ourYoutube Channel, no matter the platform just search Coyq with Dr Roxy untilnext time. Let's raise our COI Q.

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