Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

The 3 Unspoken Languages of Healthcare Innovation w/ Dr. Paul Markham


Many healthcare innovators fail to get any traction because they don’t take the time to learn the unwritten rules and principles of the industry. What are the rules and languages that govern healthcare, and how do we become better skilled at using them to guide our approach? How can you cross the chasm from pilot to mainstream?

 On this episode, I’m joined by President of Health Strategy at V3, Dr. Paul Markham, who talks about the mistakes innovators are making and how we can correct them.


3 Things You'll Learn

  • Why some healthcare innovations fail and others succeed
  • The unwritten rules of successful commercialization
  • Three most important unspoken languages in healthcare: data, doctors, and dollars


The truth about healthcare is: if there’s no financial benefit or forcing factor, there’ll be no reason for an innovation to happen. This means that as we sell our innovations, we have to tell the right story and get buy-in from the right people. Understand how data, doctors and dollars play into it, and tailor your approach to get the messages through to different people.

If our innovations can generate revenue and change the business of healthcare, we’ll have incredible clinical outcomes, and the quality metrics will go through the roof.

Welcome to Coiq, and first ofits kind video program about health innovators, earlier doctors and influencers and their storiesabout writing the roller coaster of healthcare innovation. I'm your host, Dr Roxy,founder of Legacy DNA marketing group, and it's time to raise our COIQ. Welcome. On today's show, we're going to examine the three most importantunspoken languages and healthcare innovation. Dr Paul Markham, who's been successfully launching andcommercializing new product innovations and healthcare for nearly two decades, is joining us today. He's going to reveal the unwritten rules of healthcare and decipher three unspoken languages, data, doctors and dollars. Welcome, Paul. Thank you very much forinvoting me and I'm excited to talk to everybody. Thank you. So, before we get started, just in case everyone is not familiar with whoyou are, like for you to share a little bit about your background andwhat you do. Sure. So, who am I? Well, it'sa good question. Rot Apart from the pipe work, who I really amas somebody who was going to be a rock and roll star in the S. I was going to be that we played back up band for the ICYDC. Then I went on to be an rd electronics engineer, but alongthe while found out that I had a really strange personality, something called ablink. If anyone wants to look this up, glad well, talked aboutit. US guys are and girls are actually thin slices, so we seethe endpoint before others. It's not an IQ thing, it's just a verydifferent perspective on life. I then went on from my Australian heritage came overthe United States with a large company called General Electric. We're involved in alltwenty eight acquisitions and we are going to build, you know, the thenew future of personalized, proactive healthcare. You know, I was an absolutesucker for the story because I actually believed in it. Along the way,I decided to write a doctorate related to hydrogenic death, not because I'm anacademic per se because I've got a passion for doing something about the third biggestkiller in America. Anyway. From there I've been involved in all sorts ofthings, raising capital, acquired a company involved in some pretty cool stuff,organ transplant, bumbarrow stem cell on an advocate for anything that's futuristic, I'mvery closely involved with singularity university, forever involved in anything that looks like it'sgoing to impact on that very important. You know that unreported statistic, guys, which is I trogenic death. Unfortunately it's not something that gets a lotof publicity. We hear about cardiology and cancer, but not number three toomuch. And frankly, more recently I have become an academic because I reallywant to get to people. I was just talking to Doctor Roxy before thisstarted. I want people to understand. They need to know why they getup in the morning. I get up in the morning because I want tolearn stuff. I never realized that until I got a lot older. Thesecond thing is I want people understand their uniqueness because as we move forward here, you got to be somewhat unique, not just from three hundred sixty millionAmericans, but from six billion around the world. But frankly, I'm passionateabout anything like what we're doing here today if it makes people just pick upone golden nugget that they can take with themselves moving forward. Thank you.That's exactly why we're here and what a creative, diverse background. Will haveto talk more about this. ACDC band in the future. Very interesting.So you mentioned that you have a doctorate in business administration. How do youthink that that's, you know, shaped the insights and guidance that you giveto the clients and the healthcare companies that you're working with in a unique way? So it's an interesting one. Doctor.

Roxy that the doctor really for mewas a mindset, meaning getting myself into a situation where I clearly haveto justify and be more objective about everything. But what it does for me,I talk about the fact is I can barely speak English with this Australianaccent, but frankly, people tell me, you know, pout, you speakthree languages. Data dollar was some doctors. I'll give you a realwill scenario. I was in a Midwest Hospital yesterday, Wonderful Place, butI found that I had to be cameleonic, frankly, when I spoke to thefinance people, cameleonic, meaning had to change the whole discussion when thenurses and doctors walked in the door. Then I had to have a differentdiscussion with the business intelligence folks also say that's one challenge in the United States, which I love, by the way, and I have citizenship here so whatI think is the challenge of the United States is the specialization. Okay, so where I come from, unfortunately, out in the antipoties, we haveto actually understand the horizontal landscape. That's how I ended up in thiscountry. You have to understand, frankly, data, dollars and doctors, becauseyou don't have another fifteen people around you to do anything. However,in the world moving forward, it's kind of an interesting political statement is thatyou've got to almost socialized healthcare, even if it's capital is too. We'vegot to figure out a way to get everybody to talk together, to understandthose free languages. And I believe, like the original question, the factthat I had to defend a dissertation and I really got inside the minds ofphysicians. Right, MDS, for instance, if you want to get a physiciansponsor, my doctor was related to adoption of CPOE and emrs long timeago now. Or I learn about physicians. Right, transformational leadership works, butit works in a different way. If I'm in the corporate world,I bring in with the Richard Branson or others, it's going to work evenLee Kuan You and Singapore. That kind of idea of that charismatic, thatleader. What I learned from my doctor and Doctor Roxy was the fact isthat it's not that. That's not how it works in healthcare. The bestphysician sponsors that I met were people that were selfdeprecating. If anyone remembers thatold TV series called Colombo, it's those people in the room that seem likethey have no idea what's happening, but they're able to get followership. It'scalled it's a different form of leadership. So the point of the fact is, I think from the doctorate, what I learnt was to get the insightsof not only the medical fraternity, but I got to know chief information office. Is Very, very well right. And the thing is with the CIOSit's sort of like so logical, but if you don't ask them, youdon't know this, if you don't interview them, and if you done interviewthem, with mixed Messi method analysis, meaning survey, you know, qualitativeand basically bring it all together. I found out from CIOS. We allthink they're about the data, there about the money. It's not because that'sa bad things, because most of them report the CFI. So we're herelike wow, wonder why they're not talking to me about. You know,how this wonderful interoperability and it really comes down to you gotta absolutely understand thelanguage of the bar and just to sort of if you don't mind, andI'd like to load onto that, something very interesting. Here we are inhealthcare. I'm right now. I'm involved in a bunch of things, acouple really cool and to artificial intelligence companies and Batcha and all the rest ofit. He's what we know about healthcare. We think about let's put our researcha hat on for a minute. He's what we know about healthcare.Nothing happens in a healthcare quickly. The second thing we know about healthcare.When it does happen, it happens because people are forced to do it.This is an unpleasant thing probably for people to listen to, but if wereally cared about the clinical outcomes, well,...

...we wouldn't be burying two hundred andFiftyzero people a year. If we really cared about the physician, youknow, environment and the clinical environment, well then we wouldn't be allowing themto have episodic emrs and basically a million different systems that don't connect. Wewouldn't allow that. So what we've got to do? We're got to understandthose three languages. We really need to understand how to get the messages todifferent people, because if there is no financial benefit, when I say that, I'm going to be really clear on what I mean, because no financialbenefit or there's no reason, meaning the bundle payments are changing or cms iscoming down or meaning for us is coming in. If there's nothing like that, a forcing mechanism, it's never going to happen. So what I foundis we've got to start thinking like the rest of the world we live in. We all live with air being be we all live with twitter, welive with Uba, and yet we come to health, can we go?Well, you know what we're going to do. We're going to keep sellingthese application not going to work right. We got to start thinking about thinkingabout software like like an ultrasound machine. People have got to see these thingsas revenue generators, is as horrible as that may sound, because then what'sgoing to happen? Think about turning the pyramid upside down. If we canget these to be revenue generators and something that's actually really going to change thebusiness of health, then we're going to have incredible clinical outcomes. We're goingto have quality metrics through the roof. But I think all too often weget a lot of you know, new sort of CEOS of these small companiesare either MDS or their basically very smart technical people, and then I sayhere, look what I've got, and what US marketing people know is it'scoincidence and the try. We've got to actually look at the market and findout what is going to actually how we going to get this thing into themarket. So that's just sort of gifts a long answer to your question.HMM. So you so you talked about data, doctors and dollars. Soyeah, so let's dive into that just a little bit more. Give uslike a real world example of how you would speak to all three of thoselanguages in a specific scenario. So if I'm a healthcare innovator and I amapproaching a health system or hospital system with my innovation, how when my approachingit and being able to speak those three languages? So you've got to understandthey and it's really this simple, the language of the buyer. So imaginethis for instance, and basically I'll talk about what we did yesterday, becauseliterally yesterday. So when I sat with the administrators of the hospital, Idid my research, I did my homework. That's the other thing people don't dothis. So back to the doctor and education, I sure helps forthis. So before I walked in there, I understand where this hospital actually let'stalk about the dollars for a minute. I understood where this hospital was onmargin. The hospital was around about two percent operating margin. You gotto understand this stuff. And the point was when I talked to this hospital, I talked to them in pure financial terms. I taught them about someof the CMS, bundle payments of the coming in. I talked to themabout basically how this particular thing that we're talking about, this artificial intelligence application. Never use those words, oh no, no, never use the words.I understand this is a revenue generated. This is a situation that is actuallygoing to change your operating march. And now this soul sounds like,wait on, Pauli's selling a clinical application or absolutely. But here's what happenswith most companies. They don't do that story. They pitched to the doctors. The Doctor Say oh, that's wonderful, Doctor Roxy, I want one.But then it hits the finance persons. They see if I, like wewere talking to you yesterday, is that buy into it's never going tohappen. So what happened? From yesterday? We actually found out that this particularinstitution, he's what people tell us...

...and then we don't listen to them. They said. You know what, Paul, the best thing about whatyou've told me is the concept that you're involved in, or you're interested incoming into a partnership with our organization, meaning we are interested in a revenueshare. Now you might say, well, that's interesting. Is that a bigdeal? There's a company called Athena that will actually tell you that's abig deal. Back in the old days, the CEO of that company was basically, I think I'm unnecessarily jeter by the but the industry, saying you'regoing to start in the of our company, good luck with that. But whathe did he spoke dollars. He went and actually talked to people saidhere, here's a software we'll just share in the share in the profits,so to speak. And my point view is basically that story that I gavethese people yesterday, the financial story. I'm still talking about clinical software.Okay, but yes, doctor was if I hadn't gone into these CFOs andsaid, Oh my God, we've got this artificial intelligence platform, it's goingto make the doctor's lives so, so much better, they're going to go. So that was number one. Number two the difference with doctors, andthis is straight from the doctor or background. What I did was I talked toMD's, and if they're as MD's on here, please take this rightway. WE HAVE SET MD's up for failure society. We've got them atthe top of this food chain. We've said that, the top two percentof society. Now, unfortunately, they are then put into a really forthing and they just not, they can't be the humans. So what Idid with these people just say the DOCSIC pose. I actually asked them toeducate me on what I was selling to them. Two very spect difference.It's a really big difference. Right in other words, before we even gotout of this place, these people were sort of telling me how the pilotshould be developed and frankly, I'm okay with that because I let them understand. For instance, I don't talk to them about artificial intelligence. I cameup with an acronym that is directly related to something that these people know aboutand they got it in an instant. Now, then we met with theit people, and normally it people, anyone on the line, will knowthis, sitting like this, looking back like you're a bunch of sales peoplein here, when I can all listen to you. So then what wedid we empathize. The first thing that I've found with a lot of thesepeople. A CIO has a shelf life of what twelve to eighteen months?These are tough jobs. Right once the we're looking at epic or Cerner implementationsthat are going to get them fired because they don't know the tail end ofthis thing. The first thing I said to these guys I said I wantto understand your architecture. Again, it's sort of taking the time and theminute you use their words architecture, that's interesting. I'll so you've got actuallythis particular topology. You've got to not just know the jargon but go deepenough to survive. Right, because then these guys come back and they askme questions. What it is it's like sleep? This guy knows. Hestopped right now. I'm not I'm an electronics engineer, but I'm not someonethat can go deep enough to cut code anymore, but I do know enoughto understand what their situation was. And again, really it comes back toresearch. Before I went to this institution, I knew this place was an IBMback end. I knew this place had a particular Emar. I knewwhat they were struggling with. I knew what their pain points were. Youprobably thinking, boy, this is simple, but think about it. This ison three different levels. People don't do I'm work enough. In otherwords, it became about them, Doctor Roxy not about me. Wasn't aboutus. And you know the beauty of the whole thing. Before the endof our discussion, there we were all sitting on the same side of thetable and one person from both sides meeting us. The vendor and then theorganization. Two of them were up on the White Board. I don't know, that sounds like a really good situation to me. And we still havethe three groups in their data, doll...

...was and doctors. This doesn't happenmuch and I think that that's one of the things that I feel pretty excitedabout. Do it by soult healthcare, you know, because frankly, andyou and I've talked about this. We're not even doing healthcare yet. We'redoing sickcare. When we actually do go to a genetics, to name technician, before we even enter healthcare and we start doing actual, proactive then I'mgoing to sign them in healthcare. But I feel committed to doing something withwhat we've got out there right now. So thank you so much for that. I want to kind of dive deep into this. So you know,you and I have talked previously about the research statistics and the number of healthinnovators that launch a new innovation into the market, especially in healthcare, andfail. They fail to reach any level of customer acceptance or profitability. So, from your perspective, why do you think some healthcare innovators succeed and somefail? Yeah, and you see, words are important. So if Isaid to you it's all about marketing, what most people siyes are, it'sall about promotional absolutely not. So I'm going to use a definition. It'sall about product marketing. So what do I mean by that? If wethink back to Steve Jobs, okay, what he did? He actually gotan IPAD and sat with people and said how, if you swap the singleright, is that what you want to do. Yuh Huh, great.So the people that succeed are the people that actually do a lot of researchand absolutely pointless trying to sell anything to healthcare. It's something that you've gotto find that I met demand. And not only that, you've got toactually park your ego at the door, and I've done this before as aconsultant. I'll tell people I'll mail them a card before we have the meeting. You got to park your ego out the door. So many founders areprobably got IQ's of about two hundred. But what they done understand. They'vegot to learn to listen. But in other words, just because you've justinvented the great, greatest widget live, it doesn't mean a damn thing.And I'll give you a scenario. One of my dear friends set up ameeting in New Jersey some time ago and we sat with some superpower boker Ciosfrom the northeast. These are people managing five to seven billion dollar organizations.MMM basically part of product marketing, research and if these other companies did thisthey would learn that they're they're going down the on track. I just wentto rs and I that's all these startups there. I would say ninety ninepercent of them are going to fail. One or two of them maybe notso. Anyway, what we did at this meeting we did some really interestingthings. We said, Hey, see, iows we've got this great new thing. It's going to say so many lives, it's going to cut costs, is going to do all this stuff. And they said, wait, doyou want to hear from us and what we do in our lives?And we go yeah, that'd be great. So what they came back was veryinteresting. They were actually hugging each other, frankly and honestly, becausethey are actually being applauded in their organizations. Why? Because I had six hundredclinical applications. They got them down to seventy five. And think aboutthe implications of this. Here out in the market, you've got all thesenew healthcare innovators saying, Oh my God, look at this new thing, it'sgoing to be great, we're going to bring in your organization and thepeople are actually going to block you are saying thanks, but we're actually gettingrid of six a hundred and fifty applications or two hundred, and our CEOSare saying thank you for that. Because then we're getting rid of the cost, the service costs and all the rest of it. So again it's understandingwhat the market is. The idea of a good idea common. I meanmore seriously, if things were a good idea. US marketing types know this. For instance, Beta chord versus VHS is a great example. Beta Chordback in the day was a much higher quality. But they pick the wrongchannel. Shock Horror. I'll tell you another one. Apple. I teachthis stuff and people go what apple? Apples invincible. Will know anymore.But in the early days, what Steve...

Jobs did? He totally thought marketingor product marketing was a big joke when he first started. So he saidI'm going to pick education, now build job A. Bill Gates got lucky. He picked business is that comes back to healthcare. You've got to reallyunderstand what you look at. Don't assume anything and Park your ego at thedoor. If you go into an organization and they go man, well,you better listen to that. You better start looking at things like ce MS, what laws are changing, for instance, real world example, there's a thingcalled an ECHMO. It's like a heart. Best Way to say it'slike a heart pump for people that are waiting to go on to transplant.Now, last year the just had to reimbursement of a hundred and four thousanddollars. That sounds pretty good. This year that could go down to seventyfive hundred. What. Wow. What you an opportunity for artificial intelligence.Not because of artificial intelligence. Remember, the big problem out there is notselling the feature but understanding what is the benefit and does anyone care? Imean, who cares if I come up with this little technology? I sawsome great things again at trade shows and I see them and I honestly lookat them. I think they're going to get the two million bucks. MaybeI'll have the six what I call pilot syndromes where I basically could jole andget some of these big medical centers to run this software for a bit,but it's whether they can move out of the across the chasm in the mainstreamalley. That's that's my answer view question. Excellent. Thank you so much.So much rich information in that. So we talked before about the unwrittenrules of healthcare and you touched on them a little bit, but if youhad to identify them specifically, what do you think some of the unwritten rulesare that you're encountering in Daytoday? Yeah, I think because I'm on this,you know, old man of the sea, some of the stuff I'mtalking about, it is not anecdotal. I guess what I talk about isfactual. It's after being involved in many slam doors and incredible amounts of wasteof money on try to basically tell people that this is a great idea.He is the unwritten laws as far as I'm concerned, and healthcare it inthe United States, but there's similarly around the world for different reasons. Ifthere's no forcing factor, it's not going to happen. I mean, youknow the people are doing to use noise. Let's just say the people that ownthe EMR companies did very, very well, but in a funny waythey got lucky. Traditionally Mr Companies got lucky with meaningful use, the fortyFourzeros, etc. Yeah, I look at that and I think, asanyone ever thought, what the actual forcing factor? If that forcing factor wasn'tthere, would these episodic revenue cycle sort of centric meaning the wrong model,and they know they built the wrong model. They absolutely do. Will they evenbe in existence would these would certain individuals be worth three point nine billiondollars? Now they wouldn't. So one of the unwritten laws is, asfar as I'm concerned, based on fact. If there's no forcing factor, that'sbasically a pointless situation that you involved in. Good luck. People aregoing to look at it, doctor, Roxy they're going to say, ohmy gosh, you're so strategic and I love the accent and thanks for theKoala, and then they'll go like that and you'll be on your way.What're right. The next unwritten rule that if you're going to try and marketor sell something in healthcare, if they're is no budget you. They don'tjust invent money, right. It's just there's no additional maybe some large medicalservice centers have things like benevolence funds, some information departments have things like anintegration fund, but the reality is if...'re going to try and sell somethingit's going to change everything, and then you find out there is no actualthere's no money for it. Well, you've got to actually think harder.You got to think like that guy with the Emar company that people sort ofsaid it's never going to work. What he did? He listened to themarket. So the market says, I have no money. HMM, maybewhat I'll do there? I'll set up like a revenue share on the backend. That was a very, very smart thing. That meant that hewas listening to the market. So basically, you know, if there's no forcingmechanism, I mean honestly, good luck with it. The idea ofgetting stuff that's make the doctor's lives easier. I heard a really interesting story froma friend of mine and he said I was standing in a large medicalcenter and we just finished a presentation where we said and we are going tosave you seventeen million dollars. and honestly, you would have thought it was theAcademy Awards. We would have everybody would have received an Oscar and essentiallyeverybody was yawning. So the reality is, don't assume anything. So you're inan organization and you say things like Oh, and it'll replace all thesefts. That's great, but that's not how hospitals work. Again, understandthe buyer might be that it's never going to get into a situation like that. The third thing about it is, as far as I'm concerned, thinkharder. Here's an unwritten rule be smarter than the other guys, and I'llgive you an idea of what that is. You might have a platform that isreally good for clinical assist no one's going to buy it. Right.The doctors are going to jump up and down, but unfortunately, the goodold days of the doctors MD's knocking on the CEOS door, say twenty yearsago. We go and talk to the doctors and they go on force theCEEO to buy something. Excuse me that that's not there anymore. It's gone. However, imagine if we're able to basically dig deeper and think harder andreposition it. So he's an example of that. Just say we've got aplatform is going to make the world easier for doctors. Is that going tosell? Is that going to market? Well, somebody might tell me they'vedone it and and happy, happy, happy to you. For the mostpart people are going to want again. But how about if we go andsee the Chief Council of the hospital? This is something I've been involved in. We start positioning this is a risk mitigation platform. Wow, what areyou talking about? Well, we start looking at the MD's in the world. We find out the neurosurgeons are the number one sue doctor, followed bycardiac surgeons and and then you start thinking malpractice suits. Now, the goodold days it didn't matter the organization, but these days many doctors, Ithink it's fifty two percent, now work for the hospital. So all ofa sudden you may be able to through thinking harder and talking to different peoplein the organization, if you start talking with Chief Council or a chief qualityofficer. I kind of call it this Venn Diagram of clinical, fiscal andquality. I'm not going down the triple a thing again. That's another marketingpitch. But the point is. The point is. The third rule isyou've got to think harder. You cannot assume that whatever you've got, inmy humble opinion and factually, that anyone's going to listen to it. Everybody, everybody out there, is going to take the meeting, they going todo the pitch, but you've got to also understand what is the motive ofthem taking the meeting. You've got to actually think to yourself, is thisactually an end goal? So for me some of the young rotten rules,in this country at least, are essentially understand is are a forcing factor secondly, they're actually away? Is there actually a financial way to get this done? And thirdly, are you actually talking? Are you really talking about the benefitof your product, meaning, Hey,...

...we can actually cut down on Ma'llpractice suits? That has a different ring to it than are we gotan inner interoperability engine. That's going to it's going to be great. Theducks are going to love it right all list top US off. It soundslike Larad idea, but we might have to go outside and camearly on it, like go to a different depot and have a very different impact. Sothat's my tip on it. I think he touched on a bunch of differentthings that like positioning strategies, messaging strategies, product market fit really, you know, focusing on the buyers needs and solving their real problems instead of aboutyour widget and how awesome it is. You know, these things are justfundamental to marketing, no matter what to no matter what industry you're in andin. There's so many additional complexities to commercializing and innovation, and healthcare,let's talk. You touched on pilots a little bit and I think that's oneof those additional complexities to healthcare. You know, it's a real challenge.I hear else health innovators talking about this all the time. They've got thisinnovation, they get really excited when they get this pilot opportunity. But many, many innovators get stuck in what I call pilot purgatory, right, theyjust never come out of this pilot phase. Describe for US your experience with thatphenomenon and you know, how can health innovators avoid that getting stuck inthere? So, and this this is just coming from real world experience.So many, many years go about a phone call and somebody said, howcan you come in and look at this comp me and tell us whether weshould keep it or shut it down? Yeah, sound like an interesting thingto do at the time. Now, most little companies, I'm not goingto name the organizations, but everybody knows what. What little companies think isthe right thing to do is to find the big brands out there in certainname right, M medicals, medical center, and it seems like a great ideabecause then you put it on your website. You know you've got thesesix accounts. It's wonderful. Look frankly, guys, they're never going to payyou. It doesn't work. Like that, and I'm not saying theyshould pay you. They've got this. They're built up brand equity in thesemassive medical centers and frankly, it is a good idea to work with thoseorganizations. They're wonderful to work for. But over here you've got a thingcalled a business with cash, file etc. So, anyway, this organizationals I'vegot involved in, they had all that right. It was a midwestcompany. They were flying around the country to all those medical centers, burningcash, enormous amounts of sales. Not any anywhere likely, because frankly,it's kind of a privilege to be in some of these medical centers. Imean that quite honestly. Sy It, but most people like this organization.I said, how about we hunt closer to home, right? What?What? So we literally, and this is true story, we physically walkedacross the road from where this little office I could net medical center. I'mnot making this stuff up, and we walked in and said, hey,we're doing ABC. What do you think? So after we got through the whole, you know, discussion about the local football team and all this typeof stuff, we started. But what I did with those guys, Iknow the pilot syndrome. Honestly, I was just out of JP Morgan,and when you talk with some of these guys that everybody knows the game,might see you everything in your power, and I'm not saying it's easy,you got to do everything in your power that if you do a pilot,if you really have to do that, because unfortunately healthcare has been idiotically setup into this thing where everything's free. It's just not free. HMM.Really Right, contracts. I like to do a nondisclosure agreement around a contractthat will then actually move into something.

And what I say to the peoplein there, and I never just talked to see io, I talked todated dollars doctors. I'll actually talk to these people say look, we want, we really want to do this, but we're a business and for oursuccesses. You know your success. You can't. You can't run a businesson nothing. And I'd say that's the number one thing I hear at leasttrade shows and people go home. We're in at and they go abcde andof course those organizations love to see you tech. Some of them might getthrough some how. Do I say this in a nice way? Go tothe boring places that are actually doing here that don't have. You know,let's just pick some. I don't want to pick cities because I don't wantI've said anyone, but that maybe you go to a particular place in Georgia, you might go to a different place in North Carolina, you might goto Nevada rather than California. I mean, I love all these places, butsure, company. It's what I say to people. Just you're here, right, if you're in New York City, why are you? Whyare you flying out the inner mountain health again? You know, if you'rea company that's set up in Houston Texas and yet you're trying to go afterMayo Clinic, what right you're not? Hunt locally and be really smart aboutit and just understand somebody saying to you that they love you. Technology andall the rest of it. It doesn't doesn't necessarily mean that it's going topay the next check. So anyway, with that company, with then huntedlocally. We got got to know the CIOS Latreuecross road. He then toldus whether the next CII was. We then set up a CIO dinner atHymn's. This is the long time ago. In New Orleans when I all camealong, and the absolute justification for the dinner was this. We're talkingabout artwork and golf, meaning no pitching, right, I'm sounds like. Andwe went to this dinner and we got to know these people and webuilt rapport and relationships. The people happen to come from all of the fivesectors of the United States, so it's kind of helpful. For the pointwas, then we diffused out from there and we never had one nickel offree pilot and I'm not sorry. It wasn't it was easy. It wastough. So listen, why are you do a pilot will? I sawlook and we bring the statistics up. I mean pilots don't work. Theydon't they the kind of look good for pite clinical research paper or something likethat. But if you can get into a situation, look, it's like, come on, we're in the world, right. Anything you get for freeis worth exactly what you get. If there's no if there's no exchangebetween not it really means that there's no it's not a real relationship, andI know that very, very well. Though. Anyway, I hopefully I'veanswered your question absolutely. That's fantastic feedback. So the last question I have beforewe open it up to q and a is, you know, we'vegot several health innovators that are in the trenches right now. So what advicedo you have for them? So if I, if I was to giveyou one piece of advice, learn finances. If you don't know them, learnthem, learn them really well, start to understand the sounds like,what is he talking about? But seriously understand you're running a business. Youmight be passionate about what you've got, you might be in the clinical senseor the technical sense whatever, but the a being leader in a way thatyou understand when it's time to step aside. I saw some different leaders along theway. One of my favorite companies is life is good. Why?Because I make a tshirt that is actually high quality and frankly, I lovet shirts. This that I'm doing right now, this is all part ofpersonal branding right now. But seriously,... the point of it is Iwould say to innovators don't assume anything, question things, think harder, butthink beyond okay, so I think when I hear a lot of this stuffabout artificial intelligence, I hear about blockchain, don't just listen to that. Doyou research right. So if you think about blockchain, what chaining itselfis just a story that normally is followed by are you mean bitcoin? Sopeople completely missing point. What chain in itself will change the world? There'sa statement. There's no there's no doubt about it. The technology right nowis too early. But let's think about healthcare for a minute. If I'man innovator and I'm not thinking about other technology. So that's my point.Think harder, do more research. Don't assume your business is going to bethere for another five minutes, low one, five years. You've got to beabsolutely thinking ahead. You don't want be seers or Boston store, whereyou're sitting there after it's all happened, go what happened, like Whoo,where did Amazon come from? Likewise, with Amazon, HMM, should belooking at Jack Marn Ali bar and saying well, hang on there buying stuffand Ali Barber and selling it at Amazon. Some of my vice back to innovatorsis you're not nearly as smile as you think you are. You mighthave an Iq of two hundred, but Iq is not what's going to winthis battle. It's really doing deep research back to block chain. So whenI first looked at that I thought now I'm a technical guy, so Ithought it looks interesting, it's good story, and then I thought weight on.There's three things that blockchain could do for healthcare. To I don't know, unique identify, now that's interesting. Smart Contract for all the Judication,immutable database. That's not a bad start. But that's not really the point.Let's think harder on that for a minute, Doctor Rock so you let'sthink real hard on that. In healthcare today there is no patient centric approach. There just isn't. If I got to, going to use the name, but an Mr Insert name. This is an episode of care. I'ma doctor, I need to look at the longitude and all view. Butbut it hasn't been built that way. It's a wrong model. It's beenbeing built around the revenue circle. So here's the thing. People missing.blockchain part from the fact it's going to be, you know, here isthe here's the producer, here's the user. There's going to take everything out ofthe middle, meaning all of the layers of healthcare assurance, blah,Blah Blah. But he's the more important thing. What they miss on blockchainis. They get hung up on the token. Blockchain is like a racetrack of the future. It's like the Internet turned inward database. But rightnow what people don't talk about is if I have a blockchain wallet right allof a sudden my wallet is right now. It's for a token. It's finefor a financial thing. There's no reason that can't be a patient centricelectronic medical record, patient centric identification of everything for genomics. There we go. We might do some healthcare sometime. The point is, if I'm aninnovator and I feel like I'm just about to get over there, that's numberone. Number two for the innovators, stop trying to sell direct guys.It's just too hard. Yeah, go to the big medcenters. Why don'tyou say to yourself, Hey, maybe there's a company out there that Ican make smarter, meaning that there's a company in the device market. Therecould be a company in the farm or world that could be. Do youknow, if there's one thing that's going to make you successful, he's aclear real world example. I was involved with a company and I said,Hey, we need to oem our software shrink wrapper and put it in thisother companies portfolio. Now we're only going to get seventy five hundred dollars everytime someone touches it. I'm not going to go into what it was.It doesn't matter. And I bought. I fought with the Bord of directorson this. They said you are under selling the product. It's a milliondollar platform, blah, Blah Blah. I said, okay, fine.So not long after that we're getting three hundred and FIFTYZERO dollars cash per month. Right, and it kept the company of flight so stupid in that whenit is people think that they're they're able... and United States of America.What do we got? I thinks fifty eight hundred hospitals. Start to understandhow people buy stuff. Start to understand. You know, I've done a lotof work in supply chain where people will come to me with this newlittle thing and say, Oh, it's going to change, you know,this new que chip, it's going to be great, because I do alot of stuff with people in China. Reality is, think, Harla,look at beyond. Yeah, the direct channel. That would be the secondthing I'd say to innovators and I'd also say this question and then question againand when you finish questioning. It's a little bit like when you do yourdoctorate right, proof for it, to prove for it, and proof forit again, because, guess what, it changes from day to day.Okay, it's like I'm in the back of that Uber and San Francisco andI said to this guy, what are you guys thinking about with block chain? And when I told him about the idea that the hidden message behind blockchainis is that it's going to take out the middleman and he goes weight on. Are you kidding? That means it takes out of Uber and I saidabsolutely what they can't be right. So that's what I'd say to healthcare innovators. You know, I'm not saying take the easy road, but if youfind out there's a device vendor or a farmer or biotech or something that's gota gap and you can sell a little baby piece of whatever you're doing,a thousand times are you're going to be in business and then you can goon. Then you can go and you might be able to afford to doyour pilot syndrome if you really have to do that. But you might findwait a minute, all the I'm not don't need to be paying a hundredand fifty grand a year to a sales rep and, by the way,I'm a sales guy, so I'm not against sales people, but I'm justsaying a business to business model is a really smart way to go for asmall company, and often, often small companies for me missed two things.Product. The first period marketing, meaning they're building something then trying to sellit. Yep. The last one is channels. They do all their workon basically trying to just stay alive. Their websites awesome. Or why?They're got a great website. You got a good website, no doubt,but I'd say I'd spend more time on getting the message someone understand. Don'tassume anyone understands. While we're actually using neural networks, machine learning, deeplearning, were actually going to go to reasoning, computing, and what doyou think? And the people on the other end, especially if they're MDUZINGthegn yeah, that's interesting and they're probably thinking of themselves. I wonder whereI'm going for dinner to, not knowing how you're talking about you know.So, yeah, what we're doing is going to take fifteen minutes off thatstupid report you do at the end of the day that, I say,what'll just what? Yeah, that's so thank you so much for sharing.What's the best way for people to connect with you? I've got about Elevenzerodata points. I might probably, I've got it doesn't matter. Text MessageLinkedin WHATSAPP. You know, you know. Come on, Doctor Rock. Soyou know this. I mean, I'm connected, so and I'm happyto talk to people anytime. I'm not the Oracle, but I might justmake you do one thing. It's think harder. Just do that for me. Just think harder before you do anything. Question Yourself. I mean honestly,I do it all the time. I even question what I'm talking toyou about because I go back and I want to test. I want tosee does this make sense? And I'm always here's a thing. I'm alwaystalking to the customer like. Yeah, we talked all these different people,data, dollars, doctors. I asked them, I said, look,before we start this discussion, what's going on in your life? Right?We found out what what they cared about. Frankly, we then sculpt that howwe were talking them. It didn't change that much. That did alittle bit. There's some style stuff there that I didn't understand. Like he'sa classic. And we'll just close out on this. We're talking about artificialintelligence and healthcare. So first thing is stop using that word, because it'sit's only relevant to a bunch of I...

...people and everybody else it's like it'sgoing to it's crazy. He's going to take my job and all the restof it. It's it's just not right talking to the wrong people. Butyou know, I said this guy, you know, understand, I understand, I understand, you know your workflow, but I'd like to understand a littlebit more. And he's exactly what he said. He said, youknow what, Paul, no one ever asks us this, but he's what. I'll tell you happens. He said, I'm in a nice you and withoutdoubt, everything goes wrong when I'm not there. Think about how powerfulthat statement is if you really listen to it. Artificial intelligence can instantly helpthat, but no one's ever at Austin that before. So essentially everybody's tryingto fix the problem while all the people are there. And he said,if I could just pick up a little a look on my phone, signhi, bed six needs to come up for vent alida. He said mybrother would be quiet, but it never happens like that. I'll get inthe next day. I'm going a whole bunch of stuff I'm going to dealwith. So thank MMM, absolutely great closing words for us. Thank you. What's the difference between launching and commercializing a healthcare in avation? Many peoplewill launch a new product, few will commercialize it. To learn the differencebetween launch and commercialization and to watch past episodes of the show, head toour video show page at Dr Roxycom. Thanks so much for watching and listeningto the show. You can subscribe to the latest episodes on your favorite podcastAPP like apple podcasts and spotify, or subscribe to the video episodes on ouryoutube channel. No matter the platform, just search coiq with Dr Roxy.Until next time, LET'S RAISE OUR COIQ.

In-Stream Audio Search


Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (111)