Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 80 · 6 months ago

How to turn the focus from tech-centered to customer-centered w/ Steve Sapot

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

One of the most critical components of a successful startup is the startup’s understanding of their customer - but what happens if you’ve got a tech-centered origin?

Making the investment in customer discovery is hard enough, but it gets even tougher when the data you dig up warns that you might be on the wrong path - and need to pivot your focus.

Steve Sapot, Perimeter Medical Imaging AI’s Chief Commercial Officer, used customer discovery strategies to quickly reveal his organization’s need to shift its focus. 

Armed with the strong leadership necessary for such a challenge, the Perimeter team rolled up their sleeves and began the work of pivoting their strategy, and are now primed for success.

In this episode, Steve talks openly and candidly about strong leadership, the value to be found in a good customer discovery strategy, and what it takes to have both.

Here are the show highlights:

How to shift an organization to a customer-focus (1:35)

Why it’s necessary to “get” uncomfortable (8:39)

How COVID re-humanized the workforce (10:03)

The right kind of decision making to target early adopters (18:39)

This is how you know you’re a true leader (22:59)

How your company looks today may differ in 90 days - and why that's okay (28:47)

Guest Bio

Steve Sapot is the Chief Commercial Officer at Perimeter Medical Imaging AI, an organization working to improve the lives and surgical experience of breast cancer patients.

A keen sales executive, Steve has a passion for stacking organizations with top talent and then empowering those teams.

Specializing in turning a strategic vision into strong commercial teams, Steve has consistently brought successful plans to the table, resulting in outperformance of organizational goals.

Steve BA in communications from the University of Arizona and has built a solid and respected career in medical technology.

If you’d like to get in touch with Steve after the show, feel free to reach out to him via email at info@perimetermed.com or on his company’s website at perimetermed.com

You're listening to health, innovators,a podcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and earlyadoptors,who are shaping the future of health care on your host Doctor Roxy Movie Welcome Back Health Innovators. Ontoday's episode, I am excited to sit down with Steve Sapid, who is the chiefcommercial officer for primeter medical, imaging, welcome to the show Stevethanks for having me Dor oxy. I'm excited to be here so again. My name isSteve. Sapped, I'm the chief commercial officer for a company name PrpruderMedical Imgai were actually based out of Toronto. With t e US headquarters,opening up in Dallas Texas. What we do is we use a technology called opticalherens tomography. What that ultimately does is. We are going in Imaggan breasthissue to try and save women from going back for a second surgery, ten to fortypercent of women that go in, for, I should say lombacktomes or tissue,sparing procedures that obviously want to save e majority of their breasts.They actually have to go back a lot of the times for a second surgery, becausethe margins come back positive and Argo ar technologies. We would like to getit to a point where those patients only have to go in for one surgery, so we'reprerevenue we're very excited to launch in the next outcoming months, but themajority of my background has always been in commercial leadership. YearsAgo I was, I was a sales rup in the field, so I kind of grew up in thefield and then I come up through different sales marking leadershiproles. So I've got a lot of experience. I can, I know what it's like. I alwaysjoke to to carry back to know what it's like to be in the field, but also onthe other side of a to be an executed and run a successful business and tryand live something off the ground. So thank you for having me yeah,absolutely great introduction. So so, when you- and I were talking earlier,one of the things that you had mentioned was that early on that youguys were much more of an engineering...

...focused company and that you're, inkind of this process of shifting and being more customer focus, so explainto our audience what you mean by that, and why do you think this shift? Is itimportant yeah it's the most crucial part of where we are as an organization?It's also the most painful too. It's very hard. You know, thereare.There are different types of people that come into organizations indifferent stages of organization, where you have a great idea: Youre raisingcapital you're trying to see will this technology really work? And you get tothat point where you've done the right things, your fundings and plays youhave obviously this technology, you proven it with some early fesibilitystudies, whereev they maybe you maybe got one or two submissions o the FDA,but you're, fully ready to say, okay, how do we go out and now sell thisthing to the market because a lot of the times everyone is an innovator,especially on engineeringside Yo like this. Is the greatest technology evergo on and sell it and you realize well, we have to we don't have a grand jet.We don't have a marketing plan. What is the price in behind it? Do we have asales team? It's very easy to add early, sometimes towpline revenue, but if hacustomers fall out the back side of it, you don't win in the long term, so it'sa huge shift to get there yeah yeah yeah. So what are some of the things that youguys are putting in place right now to help with that shift ind thattransition yeah? So so, when I came into the organization you know, bigrole for me was to come in and say: okay, we believe we have a fantastictechnology. We know that we can help these women. Obviously ormen. Sometimesyou know only have to go in for one surgery. That's our goals. We don'twant to have to go back in for what we call a reexcision or a takeback wor wefind out a week later. Ton Say all right: You have positive margin. Youneed to go back for another surgery right, but just because we believe thatwe need to be able to reach out o the market with our grandy and that's athat was a huge focus and still is. Is it's one thing to be a technology, butit's another thing to how does that technology affect the patient, thehealth care system, the physician?...

What's the story that goes with it,there's a lot of great. You know medtech Os out there, companies outthere, but they don't speak to people about how they really solve a problem.So we took on a whole new brandenn effort where we've gone out to themarket done a ton of asking to positions. Patients current executivesin our company anddid a Massiverebrandon, we're very close,we're not there yet to waunch our new campaign. Then you have to build offthe whole commercial on the structure. When you build out a sales team, salesteams need tools to be successful in the field. Questions are going to comeoff objections. How do you defend your pricing? How do you defend all thesedifferent things? We have to do the research to make sure that our teamsare successful in the field and that we alsimately can bring this technology tothe patients and that the hospitil see thei value. So it's a lot of research.It takes a lot of time, there's a lot of expense that goes behind it, but I'ma big believer that, if we don't get it right, holitically from the beginningwill never be able to scale to the size we want to be. I think that is so critical and it's akey step that so many organizations either skip all together or try to doon the cheek right, so they are going to maybe do some market research, butyou know we don't really have time to interview enough customers, and so wejust interview a couple, because it's faster nd and we're like okay, thatthat you know that Dataset of three is enough. Let's go, and it's so tempting to you know want to just skip those keysteps, because we feel like there's this window of opportunity and we'vegot to get into the market and seize the day. A right sees that market shareright now so cudos to you guys for making that investment in both time andmoney yeah. Thank you. I mean. We've got a great board of our board. We've dote a greatleadership team. We've done a great job with with he capital Rais, and it's putus into a place. A lot of people leave our story. They know what we're goingafter hen. You know we're trying to do this the right way, so they believe inUS and they've. Given us, you know...

...the reporcing to go out and do this theright way so that you know W if we're going to feel, let's feel fast. Let'spick it up en most pivotrol quick right. Let's make sure that we did thiscorrectly, so we build the foundation yeah yeah. So is there anything thatyou've learned so far in the market? Research that has been enlightening, some kind of AhaYeah. You know, I think it was a lot. You know sometimes a lot of this marketresearch kind of Valitis. The way you feel internally right, like you thoughtyou had a Gud feeling. You know what it mean but you're like let's validatethis to make sure we're right and which feels good, sometimes know that,like okay, I'm not Tok e, crazy pills, we're all hunded something here. Youknow nd get that validation, so that's always good, but I think a lot of it isjust the way healthcare is looked at rightnow, it's so funny is everyone wants to animate? Everyone wants these greattools, but a lot of the times we keep hearing from the pairs on the hospital.They don't want to pay for it right E, who wants the best the best careouter,but they don't want to pay for it forelse. It was really trying to puttogether like what we believe we can do from a clinical standpoint, but theemotion of these patients too there's so much that goes on with this diseasedate. expestly withbrest cancer, on like some of the early things thatwe're doing we're going to be looking at other tissue types for other cancers,live or head and TAT kidney. But we, a lot of the studies in our orandomizecontrol trial, will be around breast cancer because we bets o really unmatneed right now, but these patients go through a huge emotional signtod tothese surgeries, what it does to them after surgery emotionally physicallytheir own feeling about themselves sexuality, all these different things,and we knew that like we have to show the mark it. These patients, that, likewe, have a great device that if we can help just cut this down fifty percentof the time these patents don't have to go back like that's huge to what itdoes. So, just knowing the emotional side what this technology can do, and Ithink that was really touching for a lot of us. We went through the brandbriefand with our created team to see they were doing a lot of research onblogs and different places that patients were hanging out and just thatemotional connection to what the...

...technology like this can do is wasreally Enlighteni. It also, you know, makes you work harder to know that youcan do something right out there, fones patients Yep Yep. Absolutely so I thinkit's also really common what you guys are experiencing to where you've got.Maybe a company that's led by an engineer or led by a technologist, andso that becomes a product first company and then has to make that shift inorder to be successful. Yea Yeah, yeah Thas AB. Absolutely it's, but you know,if you have a good team put together t at understand. You know you gotta, haveyour team, that's building it give MOU all that righ and then you got to haveyour team that commercializis the to right. We always joke. There's alwaysthat internal battle sometimes- and you know you have to figure out a way. Well,how are we all going to win together? So I think a lot of people go throughthat and it's part of the growing organization as well. It makes this bigshit. It's happened, bfore and I can be successful. Just have to have goodteammates and you know good leadershoul hell be through that yeah. So you mentioned leadership. So,as you think about you know, your role is the chief commercial officer and theresponsibility that you have. How does leadership play a role and thecommercial success? Yeah A D? You know it's everythingright I mean from the people the big I'm a huge believer in in the townt LiGrandin, the organization I always say I want to bring people in that arebetter than me, and I want to be challenged every day to always bringbetter people in the organization, because it helps me grow and if wedon't bring good people into the organization on the commercial side,we're never going to grow. So leadership is important. We have to getuncomforable every day. We have to push ourselves, we we have to be relentlesson always trying to be better, and if we mess up that's okay, let's pick itup and give it real quick. So it's all bout people, Thau H. I can'ttell you how many times ougound Myke Cor intofe roles. I've had even btweenhere, the better people you bring in the organization the more timeresources whatever it is to find better talent bring in will make your job somuch easier, and I see a lot of the Times that people don't take the time to really bet thepeople that are going to Raig the organization or hire correctly a badhigrer to really sent you back and it...

...happens. We' not perfect. I've made alot of bad hires and past and that's okay. We all learn from them. OtlieMala Company. If you don't really invest in your people, you will notscale if at the grocerate that we know we can. So how is that experiencedifferent R for you in this covit climate, when you think about findingtalent and in a virtual world right, you're, probably not doing face to faceinterviews, and then you know just even the team,that's in the field yeah and being able to lead effectively a virtual team orwat yeah. I think it's the way that you communicate obviously the way that youown wore the way that you bring people in yeah they's been like listen. Istill haven't met a lot of my coworkers thatar up in Toronto. We've only metover you know, Google or Zhomor whatever may be onow. Now you can't goout N T O, have dinner, have a class of line and gets to know people on a levelto say. Okay, we work so hard during the day. Tell me about your family, allthat you try, and you know you can do it over zoom or whatever theseinteractions may be, but you just have to be AP prond with people and ask Morquestions. You know it's sometimes through the camera, it's hard to readpeople's. You know, nonvote communication. You know if you're ing ameeting with someone, an Someingis't go right, you're like Ar. Let's talk aboutit, creely we're not all in the same page here so think you just have to bemore patient with it, and it takes more timed than on the interview inside it's a little bit more due diligence on yourside, a obviously trying to understand this person's network. You Know Dos,they know someon that you know do a little bit more fact. Finding we'rejust at the point where we're finally starting to come out of our Cho withbubble as an organization, I'm startg to travel a little bit more, because wefeel that we're just at that point and obviously with vaccinations rising andwe fill it in the right place where we can travel. The one thing also that covid has done,though, is it's humanized the workplace, and I make this joke all the time isthat you know we all used to you know even in Vert, you know we had meetingsor whatever it is, and everyone's all button up and everything, and now, likeyou, know, someone's Kidron across the screen or you kno. My daughter will runin see Daddy. I want to snack, you...

...can't turn that off that's life andwe're all right right. Whatever your situation is, we can't get away fromthat and it's kind of humanized people where you're like you're, not just yourroles. Whatever your title is Orever your mom Ar your daddy or whatever youmight be to someone. So I think it's, I think it's kind of wo on. I think it'sabout like a little bit of human element back to the workplace, yeahyeah, that's yeah, like authenticity and transparency like like we are ahuman being with multiple roles, but but that we'reyou know not having to maybe silo, and maybe it's because we can't we. Youknow those boundaries aren't as clear and cut anymore. You know it's interesting, so ourcompany's been virtual from day one. So for eleven years we've been functioningvirtual. So in a lot of ways for us it's business as usual, but it is verydifferent. I mean we've got clients that we worked with, that we've nevermet in person and with them for years, and this was way before covid yeah. Soit's just different and you're right. So when you're having thatcommunication through zoom, you know through UB Conferencingo like we're,you know using now. You know I say, like everybody means to have theircamera on you. You know nobody wants to talk to the black box with someonessayng can't see it was nonverbal. Communication know whether they like itwher. They don't like it, whether they're checking their email. Exactly exactly, and it's also you knowI worke organization, where I've been on one coast and had nationalresponsibilities, so I've had to fly across the whole country, get in thecar drive for ninety minutes and then sit inall day meeting one day and thenfly home or something like that's nice and that's gone away too. It's justlike. I think it's it's been on. PEOP learning on, like you know, obviously,Aur str up traveling expense policies, ore down, orverything, we're spendingresources in different ways, maybe, but I think it also has had made us moreefficiont. Well Yeah, you do. You've got all thoseconferences and travel resources that you can invest in freaking projects. Absolutely and that's een. A reallycool part of this two in the...

...commercialization efforts. We've spenta lot of time in resources, we're very excited about where we're going fromour braining resources and also from the way that we virtually have ameeding with positions whatever. Maybe I was on a a a mediang earlier with aposition going through resentation kin of Sha or softbar whatever maybe, andwe were able to to do really good over the phone and then it saved all of usgetting together for a meeting wherever it may be. It's like, if we're bothserious, we want to engage we'll set up that next meeting or whatever that maybe, but we can get it out. Oer The phone Orovr, the computers say like orwe both engage. We want to move for virses like let's meet to mee rightright, yeah. Exactly so so talk about that a little bit. You know what aresome of the strategies that you're applying that have worked really well,and maybe even candidly, some of the things that you guys are stillstruggling with when it comes to engaging your customers and being ableto present your offer to those prospects in a virtual world yeah. Sothe knights in the wording Ar nowwe're heavily investing in our sales toolsand everything as we're going to build up this commercial team round away withinterviews and we're pulling up the whole sales sporce and commercial toright now, which is he charg so but we're working havily with our creativeagency to say: okay, there's a manby of things, we can do right with all thedifferent virtual tools and even just you know, from deplaying ipads in thefields to the way that Ar Oure sale, Tmaltima ly. Have you don't get a lotof time with positions? Positions are very busy they're verypatient focuse,so either to get them on the phone or in front of the computer or if theSALRP gets ninety seconds with them. We want to be impactful and we don't. Wereally only want to work with people in the early stage es where we are. Wehave more of a sniper approch than a shokan approach. Our technology is veryspecific. It's not going to be for everyone in the dayand day, wone, it'sa new type of modality for reas cancer. Oct has been widely used in optomologyderemmatology ofther at, but it's never been using breast cancer trigkery, sothe early adoptors. We need to be ones that want to understand how it word,learn it and then, over time, when we...

...built out our artificial intelligencepotcorm and get UV to approve that we hope in the next year year and a half,it will go to more of the mainstream. Why? I tell you all that is the toolthat we need to really deploy right now, wead to do specific, we're an Imagymodolity. So we need to be able to show either these videos correlations todifferent types of cancer or astology, or all these things that resonee withthese positions that say, okay, I get it. I know why you guys are doing thisand why you would Hav this road and it will click really quick for them, butit's big for us to have the right, visual identity for them to understandalto. What we do. We know the pain points we know the problem they have.We want to show them right away and say: Yes, God that is Ha Painiam. How canyou fix this for me? So I think there's a lot of ifferent tools, like I saidfrom things you visually Thour repusentation to when you get in frontof people showing them right to the problem and understanding it whatthey're daing and then same the solution. So I hope that made t sense,Frs, cowing, yeah yeah. Absolutely so you mentioned earlie doctors. How doyou in your team identify the earliadoptorsyeah? You know a lot of us have come have been in the Seuknow, this industryor this kind of subset of Medtech for a number of years. We kind of know whothe big players are, but we have kind of you know a slot questions our oure.Ultimately, our technology is very similar in ways to alter sound. So whenwe look for early dolters, one of our big questions is, you know, do do read,alters Ande. Can you do altrasound if they say yes or no? I kind of takes usdown a whole different pathway of questions, yeah we correlated to sobeing. Okay, and it's in honestly, you have to tell the tough questions likeif we feel that when we have a conversation with a position orwhatever, maybe if they're really going to struggle with the technology, theymight not be a good early adoptrent. We have to ask those questions. Are youwilling to put in the time early to learn this like? If you don't have agreat case ore, you going to be discouraged and I think, like I talkedabout earlier, you have to get uncomfortable with asking that you haveto be comfortable with getting on comfomwhy. I should say to ask howquestions and it's okay, if someone says no to say we might let's talkagain in a year? That's okay! But right...

...now we are as a company where thistechnology is. If you're, not the best early fit will come to you later or ifyou know something changes in your practice, so I think it's important you.You have to know your market, you have to know how the Tarnet Wan you get infront of them. You have to ask the right questions, so I want to justpause right there, because I think that is so powerful. I hope everyone hitsrewine and listens to that last. Twenty second clip again because it's sopowerful that not every customer that says yes is the ideal customer and itcould actually put you down the wrong path instead of on the path, tofsuccess and so being willing to say you're, not the right customer for usright now, it doesn't mean that you won't be like you said in a year, butthat to me that's kind of that kind of strategic questioning and decisionmaking in the sales process really helps you get those earlyadoptors thatare going to become raving fans that are going to be the ones that helpsfread. The word on how amazing your solution is, and if you end up gettinga bunch of folks on there that say yes and then everybody's excited, becauseyou want a new customer but they're, not the ones that are going to beraving fans. It can do so much harm absolutely like early topline revenues,greated excites everyone, but if they fall up about door in three or fourmonths, we just spent a bunch of time and money on boarding them. Maybe theydon't say something about Paribal to their colleagues, it's going to hurtyou in the lone, so you have to have you Hav to say how o play the long gameon this. Obviously, everyone wants to accelerate one money in the door. Now,luckily, we've got like, I said, a greatboard, great leadership in greatkind of investors that are believe in our store theyre going to give us theOPPORTUNITYTO. Do this right, so we're very lucky. We have that yeah yeah, so so Steve. You had mentionedsomething about educating the market in how you know important. That is so whenwe're talking about an innovation, that's really revolutionary, Obreakthrough, or maybe not completely...

...disruptive, but new for this particularmarket segment. That you're pursuing t tell me about this educationinitiative or campaign that you have going on, and why is that so critical?It's huge for us! It's a big part, and it was one of the things that I comencame in and took almost role as I saw. That is a whole and that's not a badthing was just a call out right to say: listen like we have something, a really great thatwe can bring here, but you're changing the way, people think and andphysicians don't like change and they'll mit that fomsellser. So we haveto give the right resources whether it be the education that we do by ringing,the right resources on site when they're learning this, whether it's ouronline o form whether it's a learning development program. All thesedifferent things to teach these positions the right way, antheir stophow do Reno ct or again it goes back to that question who are their earlytargets, the ones that are going to pick this up faster? So I think we haveto. We have to constantly listen. We give a tom be back from people with alot of our CTE. Pand leaders- Elf, like we don't like this- or this doesn'tmake sense for this- and that and we take that fee back and we say: okay,like let's go back to the drawing biing Muss Update Fish. You don't like this.You don't like that or help us like you o. You can't build these products inthe vacuum. A lot of the time that happens, whereeveryone gets going toThik, you have the greatest product and you didn't test ind feel and you didn'tgive feedback from the people that are also kind of be the ones using that areasking their institutions to spend money on it. So if you don't listen tothat bee back youryou're kind of crazy because you have to learn, obviouslycompanies do thinks in a certain way they do for for revenue and margins andall that. But if you'R, if your actual users are going to adopt it, then youneed to pibit. So just there's a million different ways. You can giveeducation, you can, but ultimately it's a huge part of what we're doing andit's very important os O it's going to keep evolving an whatever formant wedeliver it. I yeah, and I think what you're talkingabout to is- and I want to just clarify for everyone here- is that there's adifference between educating the market...

...on your particular solution and educatingthe market on how to use something versus trying to educate them on aproblem that they don't know that they have right, and those are two differentthings, because so many times where I hear when I'm working with clients isthat they have a a market that doesn't know they have a problem, and I saywell now that's a problem for your business, and so you know, can we go out and findthe market? That knows they have a problem instead of the ones that weneed to educate in kind of arm twist and convince them that they have aproblem. That's so of solving, so just want to make sure that I'm delineatingthat for the for the folks that are listening to Ye, I know that's a greatcall, and luckily you know in this roll. I an now the market news there's aproblem. These cergins will first tell you they want to reduce their tape.Back Lege, they don't want to have to call those patients and say hey. Weneed we need to do another surgery on you because e week later we got thetathology results. You have a positive margin, whatever in any tissue that youknow we scan. So luckily we have that and fom now from here. It's educatingthem on ultimatey this type of technology and then ultimately like howto use it so yeah. There's a lot of different types of education arecompletely right. So so steve is you kind of think back.You know your role now, but even before you kind of just think back of some ofyour successes along the way in your career. What you think are some of themost important decisions that you know a commercial officer is makingin this process. Yeah. I think you know I take it on different rules, obviouslycome up through sales leadership and then then moved into full commercialroles. So I think some of the the biggest decisions you could make is youhave to learn a little bit of everything right so under kind of thatcommercial umbrella, you've got sales e got marketing. You work with the RNDteam. You work with your cenical team, obviously in the MEDTECH Worl ar readlytowercing, what we can say, we can't say- and I think it's really importantwhen you sit through some of these,...

...like different leadership- means whateveryou know the set up your company. Is You have to kind of understand a littlebit of everything right? You have to obviously be, like you know, own salesmarking or whatever kind of that that scope for your role is. But if youdon't understand the pain of like what the engineers go through, what theregulatory to your all these, to kind of put that together, when you sit in aroom together, you can't they will all I care about is sales or Marki. It'slike great, but everything sells a marking does based ill the peoplebehind the scenes that touch that. So I think, if you have to take an interestin some of your collings and other fellow leaders in your organization tounderstand what they go through and and then you become more dangerous andyourself and the better. You know comleter yourself when you canunderstand some of the things they go through. So I think again, it's justunderstanding the whole play of not just like the customer base and stuffthat you're working on so hardo. I see if youn get the product out the door,and I think that makes you a lot more, a desirable market as yourself in abetter leader, yeah yeah and that's so powerful, because you know, when youcan create that unity, then you can be more more powerful,accomidating the market and winning market share. Instead of fighting eachother Internalla. Exactly exactly and like listen there's, you know, wealways use a joke. You know sales and marketing, always butheads and thenmarkining an rnd, always bludheads right. So there's always just like thisdownfloat with teof. Today, an you all have the same goal o make your yourcompany successful. Whenever your mission is proscess to treat thesepatients, then you know you alsorally win. So again it comes back to thepeople having the right people. You know throughout the organization toMakn user and more fun, Yeah Yeah, Fun, key fun yeah. We all have hour weeksright, like we still have that fun doing this. Like you know Nice PeopleMi calling all the time it's like. Did you look back? Did you have a fun week?LIC Did you have fone to? We have some tough medians at the end of the day?Ord, you like, I mean I'm drained, but did you also have fun? If you didn'thave hem fun, then you need to think about it, because this should be funright, right, yeah, it's it's such a...

...crazy career path. You know to be in astartup company and to be you know, brining an innovation to market thatyou definitely have to have some fun along the way, just burn out so fast. So fast, andespecially we. You know we talked a lot about. Obviously, when you know we'redoing this, this code environment, I think burnotcoin happen. So muchquicker because a lot of people like you know I am starting to travel againa'd starting to get out so I'm starting to get a little bit of like the field owhat life was like before him, but it's like you haven't, left your house for ayear and then you're constantly working or you leave your office, her in yourkitchen or whatever. You know, Yit's, never any right, so you got to a tablon round the block. Get out like you know, do do whatever you can do to kindof separate it, because I think people will bron out really quickly right now,yeah yeah! Definitely so what are some of the challenges that you guys arefacing? You know we're in two thousand and twenty one. We've got a few monthsbehind us now. You know what are some of the things that you guys are havingto overcome in this year, yeah. So some of the biggest thing it's still a lotof it is sto. You know we're in a really good place from funraisingstandquirt. We've done really well. We had to watch it warrone exercise, sothat brought in a lot of Funn we're going to go o big capital rays, so ourinvestor relation teams doing a fantastic Jobon, an raising capital so really lucky that we can say that Iwould ill say, but site access like we're about to launch a really bigrandomize control, trial to Hep, prove ot or real efician intelligent. Youknow machine learning, Oliv, which is going to be a game changer for us, butwe're still having some missiuns getin in the summer sience. You know the CoviEnvir and obviously there's a big part of doing trials where you have to goonside and you site walks and check off on things. Some sizes are still notligting this an they want to do all this virtually so I think access isstill a bag issue with with covid hovoustly we're seeing people getvaccinated more and some of the some states are honestly hardely getting tothan others, and some have been more relaxed. I think just this. This covidworld is still kind of a lot of instability in the market of people.Just you know: Do we want you know vendors or some fires comingto thehospital whatever may be, so that's...

...something that we still have to lorkthrough other than that, like you said, you know we're about to do a bigonslaught of of ramping, of hiring that's going to be interesting cominginto this year, obviously, where we conduct interviews and things like that,and it's suf to pul out pe how comfortable people are meeing face tobang, but it honestly I'm excited for this year. This Ha has been a greattime. Wot We're about to see all those heavy hours of Braini efforts take offn the next few months. We really decide launch the new campaign, so it's beenfor us, it's actually kind of been Mik head in the SAMD for last six months,wo for O for work and th. Finally, the next two months will start seeing allthe stuff and, like okay, like we really move the needle yeah yeah startto see some of the fruit of your labor yeah, exactly exactly that's Gig,because that really starts because then people start looking at US and T whe.They're, like wow, this company's really moving they're doing things teyreally compushed in. I think that creates a lot of buzz e're alreadystarting to see that you know some Imbo leads certain to come, and peoplealready hear and some of the things we're doing and that's how ocanicallysor some of our other things an that's exciting, yeah yeah. Absolutely so as we rap uphere, is there anything that you out anything else that you would want toshare with our audience, who might be at various places or stages of thecommercialization process? Yeah, I would say just you know: Taki be breast.Sometimes I think everyone wants everything to be so perfect. It's notgoing to be perfect. There are things and I'm a type IG Uy myself. So thereare times where I'm like it's never going to be raied nooin be herd, but ifyou don't just jump at some point, you'll never know, and it's okay tofail. I would say I have filed ie feel a lot N. my creeer and I actually don'thave an issue with it because it is maybe the person I am today and I think,if we're not willing to try different things, to change things up UN alsojust because things are going great, don't just like sit back push theYouon't think about changing things up. Think about like how do we get? Youknow from good bet, er best right like how do we keep going, so, I thinkalways be ready to inovate, always be ready to push yourself harder, and youknow again. I think the biggest thing...

...that I can embark or pit on anything on antslistening. It is think about the people you have in your organization like keeptrying to get better and better better because, like that, will make your polljourney and cercialization everything else, keepring good taent into theorganization and the better people you put around you or in the field orwhatever Wule they may be like you, you will do better, so don't be freishatinsoff yeah yeah, that's great yeah, continuous improvement, N- and you know,is someone like yourself in the role that you have just managing thisstrategy development process, because it's going to continue to evolve andcontinue to change and being able to manage that being able to bring peoplealongside with you in that process, as you just continue to evolve as themarket changes and you become a different phase within thatcommercialization process, exactly you're sil right, I think you know wesit back on the time and go okay like what we look like today. My lookdifferent an ninety wes B. I looked different six months and a year andthat's okay and we have e opin it out is we're going to learn a lot likewwe've done a lot of othem Markin testing. But when you go to a fullscale launch, we think we have a dilind, but something might come out of blueand that's okay, we're, okay to say all right. Let's not be so sad on the wayswe have it now like the market is going to give us the feedback and we need tobe able to either you know pivot with that or change ot or offerings whatevermay be, and that's Tuff, I think that's the fun part also being one of thesmaller players is hopefullyfaster than you know, some of the biggerorganizations. That's like moving the titanic and that's that's the fun partYeah Yeah. Absolutely. Definitely the the small duye advantage fast and nimble yeah exactly well. Howdo folks get a hold of you if anybody wants to follow up with you after theshow yeah? Absolutely so you can reach out to us through into at prendermedcom.So it's just in fo at parimeter and medcom so or wet perimeter medcoms ourwebsite. So again, thank you so much...

...yoour time I really enjoyince. Thankyou so much Havyou n Bak. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and Ivalue your time and attention to get the latest episodes on your mobiledevice automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast ap likeApple Podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening, and Iappreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues, see you onthe next episode of Health, innovator.

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