Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 80 · 9 months ago

How to turn the focus from tech-centered to customer-centered w/ Steve Sapot

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

One of the most critical components of a successful startup is the startup’s understanding of their customer - but what happens if you’ve got a tech-centered origin?

Making the investment in customer discovery is hard enough, but it gets even tougher when the data you dig up warns that you might be on the wrong path - and need to pivot your focus.

Steve Sapot, Perimeter Medical Imaging AI’s Chief Commercial Officer, used customer discovery strategies to quickly reveal his organization’s need to shift its focus. 

Armed with the strong leadership necessary for such a challenge, the Perimeter team rolled up their sleeves and began the work of pivoting their strategy, and are now primed for success.

In this episode, Steve talks openly and candidly about strong leadership, the value to be found in a good customer discovery strategy, and what it takes to have both.

Here are the show highlights:

How to shift an organization to a customer-focus (1:35)

Why it’s necessary to “get” uncomfortable (8:39)

How COVID re-humanized the workforce (10:03)

The right kind of decision making to target early adopters (18:39)

This is how you know you’re a true leader (22:59)

How your company looks today may differ in 90 days - and why that's okay (28:47)

Guest Bio

Steve Sapot is the Chief Commercial Officer at Perimeter Medical Imaging AI, an organization working to improve the lives and surgical experience of breast cancer patients.

A keen sales executive, Steve has a passion for stacking organizations with top talent and then empowering those teams.

Specializing in turning a strategic vision into strong commercial teams, Steve has consistently brought successful plans to the table, resulting in outperformance of organizational goals.

Steve BA in communications from the University of Arizona and has built a solid and respected career in medical technology.

If you’d like to get in touch with Steve after the show, feel free to reach out to him via email at info@perimetermed.com or on his company’s website at perimetermed.com

You're listening to health innovators, apodcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adopters who are shapingthe future of healthcare. I'm your host, Dr Roxy. Movie. Welcome backhealth innovators. On today's episode, I am excited to sit down withSteve Sapp it, who is the chief commercial officer for perimeter medical imaging.Welcome to the show, Steve. Thanks for having me, Dr Roxy.I'm excited to be here so again. My name is Steve Sap hat.I'm the chief commercial officer for a company named perimeter medical imaging. Ai.We're actually based out of Toronto, with a US headquarters opening up in Dallas, Texas. What we do is we use a technology called opticoherence tomography.What that ultimately does is we are going in imaging breast tissue to try andsave women from going back for a second surgery. Ten to forty percent ofwomen that go in for, I should say, lump back to me's ortissue sparing procedures that obviously want to save the majority of their breast, theyactually have to go back a lot of the times for a second surgery becausethe margins come back positive, and our goal of our technologies. We wouldlike to get it to a point where those patients only have to go infor one surgery. So we're prerevenue. We're very excited to launch in thenext upcoming months. But majority of my background is always been in commercial leadership. You years ago I was a I was a sales or up in thefield, so I kind of grew up in the field and then I've comeup through different sales marking leadership roles. So I've got a lot of experience. I can I know what it's like. I always joke to to carry backto know what it's like to be in the field but also, onthe other side of that, to be an executive and run a successful businessand try and live something off the ground. So thank you for having me.Yeah, absolutely great introduction. So so when you and I were talkingearlier, one of the things that you had mentioned was that early on thatyou guys were much more of an engineering...

...focused company and that you're in kindof this process of shifting in being more customer focused. So explain to ouraudience what you mean by that and why do you think this shift is soimportant? Yeah, it's the most crucial part of where we are as anorganization. It's also the most painful too. It's very hard. You know they'rethey're different types of people that come into organizations in different stages of organizationwhere you have a great idea, you're raising capital, you're trying to seewill this technology really work, and you get to that point where you've donethe right thing. Your funnings in plays. You have obviously this technology, you'veproven it with some early feasibility studies, wherever they maybe. You maybe gotone or two submission to the FDA, but you're fully ready to say,okay, how do we go out and now sell this thing to themarket, because a lot of the times everyone is an innovator, especially onengineering side. We like this is the greatest technology ever. Go Out andsell it and you realize, well, we had to. We don't havea brand, jet, we don't have a marketing and what is the pricingbehind it? Do we have a sales team? It's very easy to addearly sometimes toilplying or revenue, but if the customers fall out the backside ofit, you don't win in the long term. So it's a it's ahuge shift to get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so what aresome of the things that you guys are putting in place right now to helpwith that shift, in that transition? Yeah, so when I came intothe organization, you know, a big role for me was to come inand say, okay, we believe we have a fantastic technology. We knowthat we can help these women, obviously, or men sometimes, you know,only have to go in for one surgery. That's our goals. Wedon't want to have to go back in for what we call a re excisionor a take back, where we find out a week later to say,all right, you have positive margins, you need to go back for anothersurgery. Right, but just because we believe that, we need to beable to reach out to the market with our branding, and that's a thatwas a huge focus and still is is it's one thing to be a technology, but it's another thing too. How does that technology a fact the patient, the healthcare system, the physician?...

What's the story that goes with it? There's a lot of great, you know, Med techtols out there,companies out there, but they don't speak to people about how they really solvea problem. So we took on a whole new branding effort where we've goneout to the market, done a ton of asking to physicians, patients,current executives in our company and did a massive rebranding. We're very close,we're not there yet, to launch our new campaign. Then you have tobuild off the whole commercial in the structure when you've got a lot of salesteam. Sales teams need tools to be successful in the field. Questions aregoing to come off, objections. How do you defend your pricing? Howdo you defend all these different things? We have to do the research tomake sure that our teams are successful in the field and that we ultimately canbring this technology to the patients and that the hospital see the value. Soit's a lot of research, it takes a lot of time, there's alot of expense that goes behind it, but I'm a big believer that ifwe don't get it right holistically from the beginning, will never be able toscale to the size we want to be. I think that is so critical andit's a key step. That's so many organizations either skip all together ortry to do either on the cheap. Right. So they are going tomaybe do some market research, but you know, we don't really have timeto interview enough customers, and so we just interview a couple because it's fasterand and we're like, okay, that that that you know, that dataset of three is enough. Let's go. And it's so tempting to to,you know, want to just skip those key steps because we feel likethere's this window of opportunity and we've got to get into the market and seizethe day. A right sees that market share right now. So Kudos toyou guys for making that investment in both time and money. Yeah, thankI mean, we've got a great board, of our board, you've got greatleadership team. We've done a great job with a capital raise and it'sput us into a pace. A lot of people leave our store where youthey know what we're going after and we know we're trying to do this theright way. So they believe in US and they've given us, you know, the resources to go out and do...

...this the right way so that youknow we if we're going to fail, let's feel fast. Let's pick itup the most pivot real quick, right, but let's make sure that we didthis correctly so we build the foundation yeah. So is there anything thatyou've learned so far in the market research that has been enlightening, some kindof Aha? Yeah, you know, I think it was a lot.You know, sometimes a lot of this market research kind of ballidates the wayyou feel internally right, like you thought you had a gut feeling, youknow what I mean, but you're like, let's validate this to make sure we'reright, and which feels good sometimes know that like okay, I'm nottaking crazy pills. We're all onto something here, you know, and getthat validation. So that's always good. But I think a lot of itis just the way health care is looked at right now. It's so funnyis everyone wants to innovate, everyone wants these great tools, but a lotof the times we keep hearing from the pairs of the hospital they don't wantto pay for it. Right. Everyone wants the best, the best careout that, but they don't want to pay for it. So for usit was really trying to put together like what we believe we can do froma clinical standpoint, but the emotion of these patients too. There's so muchthat goes on with this disease state, especially with breast cancer and like someof the early things that we're doing, we're going to be looking at othertissue types for other cancers, live or Aheadnet Kidney, but we've a lotof the studies and our randomized control trial will be around breast cancer because we'vethat's really unmet need right now. But these patients go through a huge emotionalside to to these surgeries, what it does to them after surgery, emotionally, physically, their own feeling about themselves, sexuality, all these different things,and we knew that, like we have to show the marking these patientsthat like we have a great device that if we can help just cut thisdown fifty percent of the time, these patients don't have to go back likethat's huge to what it does. So just knowing the emotional side of whatthis technology can do, and I think that was really touching for a lotof this. We went through the brand briefing with our creative team to seethey were doing a lot of research on blogs and different places that patients werehanging out, and just that emotional connection to what a technology like this cando was really enlightening. It also,...

...you know, makes you work harderto know that you can do something right out there for these patients. Yep, Yep, absolutely. So I think it's also really common what you guysare experiencing to what you've got. Maybe it's a company that's led by anengineer or led by a technologist, and so that becomes a product first companyand then has to make that shift in order to be successful. Yeah,yeah, yeah, absolutely it's. But you know, if you have agood team put together that understand. You know, you've got to have yourteam that's that's building it, getting all that right, and you got tohave your team that commercializes the too. Right. We always joke there's alwaysthat internal battle sometimes and you know you have to figure out a way.Well, how are we all going to win together? So I think alot of people go through that and it's part of growing organization as well.It makes this big shift. It's happened for and can be successful. Youhave to have good teammates and, you know, good leadership to help youthrough this. Yeah, so you mentioned leadership. So as you think aboutyou know, your role is the chief commercial officer, then the responsibility thatyou have, how does leadership play or role and the commercial success? Yeah, you know, it's everything right. I mean from the people the bigI'm a huge believer in the talent granted the organization. I always say Iwant to bring people in that are better than me. I want to bechallenged every day to always bring better people in the organization because it helps megrow. And if we don't bring good people under the organization on the commercialside, we're never going to grow. So leadership is important. We haveto get uncomfortable every day. We have to push ourselves. We we haveto be relentless on always trying to be better and if we mess up,that's okay, let's pick it up and give it real quick so it's allabout people. That I can't tell you how many times throughout my career indifferent roles I've had and even being here, the better people you bring into theorganization, the more time, resources, whatever it is to find better talentbring in. Will make your job so much easier. And I seea lot of the Times that people don't take the time to really vet thepeople they're going to bring the organization or...

...hired correctly. A bad higher canreally set you back, and it happens. We're not perfect. I made alot of bad hires and ask and that's okay. We all learn fromit. One Small Company, if you don't really invest in your people,you will not scale at the at the growth rate that we know we can. So how is that experience different front for you in this covid climate,when you think about finding talent and in a virtual world right, you're probablynot doing face to face interviews and then, you know, just in even theteam that's in the field. Yeah, and being able to lead effectively avirtual team or were. Yeah, I think it's the way that youcommunicate, obviously, the way that you on board, the way that youbring people and yeah, they it's been like, listen, I still haven'tmet a lot of my co workers that are up in Toronto. We've onlymet over, you know, Google or zoom, whatever may be. Whatyou can't go out and have dinner, have a lass of line and getto know people on a level to say, okay, we worked so harder inthe day, tell me about your family. All that. You try, and you know, you can do it over zoom or whatever these interactionsmay be, but you just have to be a prone with people, askmore questions. You know, it's sometimes through the camera it's hard to readpeople's you know, nonlobal communication. You know, if you're in a meetingwith someone and something isn't going right, you're like our let's talk about it. Clearly we're not on the same page here. So I think you justhave to be more patient with it and it takes more time. And thenon the interviewing side, it's a little bit more due diligence on your side, obviously trying to understand this person's network, you know, because they know somethingthat you know. Do a little bit more fact finding. We're justat the point where we're finally starting to come out of our covid bubble asan organization. I'm starting to travel a little bit more because we feel thatwe're just at that point and obviously with vaccinations rising, and we feel it'sin the right places where we can travel well. The one thing also thatcovid has done, though, is it's humanize the workplace, and I makethis joke all the time, is that, you know, we allay to youknow, even invert you know, we had meetings or whatever it is, and everyone's all budding up and everything and now, like you know,someone's kid run across the screener. You know, my daughter will run inand see Daddy, I want to snack.

You can't turn that off. That'slife and we're all right, right, whatever your situation is. We can'tget away from that. And it's kind of humanize people where you're likeyou're not just your roles, whatever your title is, ever your mom ordaddy or whatever you might be to someone. So I think it's I think it'skind of cool and I think it's bought like a little bit of humanelement back to the workplace. Yeah, yeah, that's like, yeah,like authenticity and transparency, like like we are up human being with multiple roles, but but that we're, you know, not having to maybe silo, andmaybe it's because we can't, you know, those boundaries aren't as clearand cut anymore. MMM. You know, it's interesting. It so our company'sbeen virtual from day one. So for eleven years we've been functioning virtual. So in a lot of ways for us it's business as usual, butit is very different. I mean we've got clients that we've worked with thatwe've never met in person and with them for years, and this was waybefore covid yeah, so it's just a different and you're right. So whenyou're having that communication through zoom, you know, throughout conferencen tools like we're, you know, using now. You know, I say, like everybodyneeds to have their camera on you. You know, nobody wants to talkto the black box with someone's they can't see. It was nonverbal communication.Know whether they I get with they don't like it, whether they're checking theiremail exactly exactly. And it's also, you know, I worked for organizationswhere I've been on one coast and had natural responsibility. So I've had applyacross the whole country, get in the car, drive for ninety minutes andthen sit in all day meeting one day and then fly home or something likethat's Nice, and that's gone a way too. It's just like I thinkit's it's been out learning on like you know, obviously our shop, traveland expense policies are down everything. We're spending resources in different ways, maybe, but I think it also has had made us more efficient. Well,yeah, you did, because that you've got all those conferences and travel resourcesthat you can invest in breaking projects. Absolutely, and that's been a reallycool part of this to on the commercialization...

...efforts. We've spent a lot oftime and resources. Were very excited about where we're going, from our brainingresources and also from the way that we virtually have meetings with positions forever.And maybe I was on it a meeting earlier with a position going through presentation, kind of showing our software, whatever may bee, and we were ableto do really good over the phone, and then it's saved all of usgetting together for a meeting, whatever it may be. It's like, ifwe're both serious, we want to engage, will set up that next meeting orwhatever that may be, but we can get it out over the phoneor over the computers. They like. Are we both engage, we wantto move forward, Versius, like let's meet to me right, right,yeah, exactly. So talk about that a little bit. You know,what are some of the strategies that you're applying that have worked really well andmaybe even candidly, some of the things that you guys are still struggling withwhen it comes to engaging your customers and being able to present your offer tothose prospects and of virtual world. Yeah, so the nights in the word inright now we're heavily investing in our sales schools and everything is. We'regoing to build up this commercial team around a way with interviews and we're buildingup the whole sale spurts and commercial team right now, which is a chargesoon. But we're working heavily with our creative agency to say, okay,there's a line of things we can do right with all the different virtual toolsand even just you know, from deploying ipads in the field to the waythat our our sales team walls and we have you don't get a lot oftime with positions. Positions are very busy, they're very patient focus. So eitherto get them on the phone, are in front of the computer orif the sales up gets ninety seconds with them. We want to be impactfuland we don't. We all really only want to work with people in theearly stages. Where we are. We have more of a sniper approach thana shotgun approach. Our technology is very specific. It's not going to befor everyone in the day. Yeah, day one. It's a new typeof modality for breast cancer. Oct has been widely used and optimology, dermatology, other act but it's never been using breast cancer sugary. So the earlyadopters, we need to be ones that want to understand how it works,learn it and then, over time, when we built out our artificial intelligenceplatform and get have to approval, we...

...hope in the next year you're inhow it will go to more of the mainstream who. I tell you allthat is the tools that we need to really deploy right now. We needto do specific we're an imaging modality, so we need to be able toshow either these videos correlations to different as, the cancer, astology or all thesethings that resonate with these positions that say, okay, I get it, I know why you guys are doing this and why you went down thisroad, and it will click really quick for them. But it's big forus to have the right visual identity for them to understands alt who what wedo. We know the pain points, we know the problem they have.We want to show them right away and say yes, guys, that isthe pain that I am how can you fix this for me? So Ithink there's a lot of different tools, like I said, from thank youvisually through a pregeentation to when you give in front of people, showing themright to the problem and understanding it, what they're pain is and then saythe solution. So I hope that made sense for us coming yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned early adoptors. How do you in your team identifythe early adoptors? Yeah, you know, a lot of us havecome been in this, you know, this industry or this kind of subsetof Medtech for a number of years. We kind of know who the bigplayers are, but we have kind of, you know, a slow questions.Are Are are? Ultimately, our technology is very similar in ways toaltersound. So when we look for early adoptors, one of our big questionsis, you know, do do you read ultrasone? Can you do ultrasound? If they say yes or no, and kind of case us down awhole different pathway of questions. Yeah, we can correlated to so being okay, and it's in honestly, you have that tell the tough questions, likeif we feel that we have a conversation with a position or whatever, maybeif they're really going to struggle with the technology, they might not be agood early adoptor and we have to ask those questions. Are you willing toput in the time early to learn this like if you don't have a greatcase or you going to be discouraged. And I think, like I talkedabout earlier, you have to get uncomfortable with asking. You have to becomfortable with getting uncomfortable, I should say, to ask how questions and it's okayif someone says no, to say we might let's talk again in ayear. That's okay right now. Or...

...we are as a company where thistechnology is. If you're not the best early, thing will come to youlater or if you know, something changes in your practice. So I thinkit's important. You have to know your market, you have to know howthe target which you can in front of them. You have to ask theright questions. So I want to just pause right there because I think thatis so powerful. I hope everyone hits freewind and listens to that last twentytwond clip again, because it's so powerful that not every customer that says yesis the ideal customer and it could actually put you down the wrong path insteadof on the path to success. And so being willing to say you're notthe right customer for us right now, it doesn't mean that you won't be, like you said, in a year. But that to me, that's kindof that kind of strategic questioning and decision making in the sales process reallyhelps you get those early adopters that are going to become raving fans, thatare going to be the ones that help spread the word on how amazing yoursolution is. And if you end up getting a bunch of folks on therethat say yes and then everybody's excited because you want a new customer, butthey're not the ones that are going to be leaving fans, it can doso much harm. Absolutely like early top line revenues. Great, it exciteseveryone, but if they fought at the back door in three or four months, we just spent a bunch of time and money on boarding them. Maybethey don't say something that terable to their colleagues. It's going to hurt youin the longest you have to have the obviously have to play the long gameon this. Obviously everyone wants to accelerate. One money in the door now.Luckily, we've got, like I said, a great board, greatleadership in great kind of investors are believe in our story. They are goingto give us the opportunity to do this right. So we're very lucky wehave that. Yeah, yeah, so, so, Steve, you had mentionedsomething about educating the market and how you know important that is. Sowhen we're talking about an innovation that's really revolutionary, of breakthrough, or maybenot completely disruptive, but new for this...

...particular market segment that you're pursuing,tell me about this education initiative or campaign that you have going on and whyis that so critical? It's huge for us. It's a big part andit was one of the things that I come and came in and took almostrole, as I saw that as a whole, and that's not a badthing. was just a call out right to say, listen, like wehave something to really great that we can bring here, but you're changing theway people think in physicians don't like change and they'll admit that themselves. Orso we have to give the right resources, whether the education that we do bybringing the right resources on site when they're learning this, whether it's ouronline platform, whether it's a learning development program all these different things to teachthese positions the right way and their staff. How do we go CEP or?Again, it goes back to that question. Who are their early targets, the ones that are going to pick this up faster. So I thinkwe have to we have to constantly listen to give a ton of feedback frompeople. With a lot of our keeping leaders, I'll say we don't likethis or this doesn't make sense for this and that, and we take thatfeedback and we say, okay, like, let's go back to the drawing boardand let's update this. You don't like this, you don't like that, or help us. Like you know, you can't build these products in thevacuum. A lot of time that happens where everyone gets going to thinkyou have the greatest product and you didn't testine to feel, you didn't getfeedback from the people that are ultimately kind of be the one using it,are asking their institutions to spend money on it. So if you don't listento that feedback, you you're kind of crazy because you have to learn.Obviously companies do things in a certain way. They do for for revenue and marginsand all that, but if you're if you're actual users aren't going toadopt it, then you need to pivot. So just there's a million different waysyou can give education, you can but ultimately it's a huge part ofwhat we're doing and it's very important us. It's going to keep evolving in whateverformat we deliver it. Yeah, and I think what you're talking abouttoo, is and I want to just clarify for everyone here, is thatthere's a difference between educating the market on...

...your particular solution and educating the marketon how to use something versus trying to educate them on a problem that theydon't know that they have. Right and those are two different things, becauseso many times where I hear when I'm working with clients is that they havea market that doesn't know they have a problem, and I say, wellknow, that's a problem for your business and so, you know, canwe go out and find the market that knows they have a problem instead ofthe ones that we need to educate and kind of arm twist and convince themthat they have a problem? That's evolving. So just want to make sure thatI'm delineating that for the for the folks that are listening to yeah,that's a great called. Unluckily, you know, in this role I'm innow, the market news. There's a problem. These surgeons will first tellyou they want to reduce their take back to this. They don't want tohave to call those patients and say, Hey, we need we need todo another surgery on you, because a week later we got the athology results. You had a positive margin whatever in any tissue that you know we scan. So Luckily we have that and knowledge from here. It's educating them onultimately this type of technology and then ultimately like how to use it. Soyeah, there's a lot of different types of education. Are completely right.So so, Steve, is you kind of think back? You know yourrole now, but even before you kind of just think back of some ofyour successes along the way in your career? Would you think are some of themost important decisions that you know, a commercial officer is making in thisprocess? Yeah, I think you know, I take it on different rules.Obviously come up through sales leadership and then then moved into full commercial roles. So I think some of the the biggest decisions you could make is youhave to learn a little bit of everything, right. So under a kind ofthat commercial umbrella, you've got sales, you got marketing, you work withthe RD team, you work with your clinical team. Obviously in thethat teche world are regulatory team. What we can say we can't say,and I think it's really important when you...

...sit through some of these like differentleadership meanings, whatever you know, the setup your company is. You haveto kind of understand a little bit of everything. Right, you have toobviously be like, you know, own sales and marketing or whatever kind ofthat that scope for your role is, but if you don't understand the painof like what the engineers go through or what the regulatory team are all theseto kind of put that together when you sit in a room together, youcan't say, well, all I care about is is sales or marketing.It's like great, but everything sales and marketing does based till the people behindthe scenes that touch that. So I think if you have to take aninterest in some of your colleagues and other fellow leaders and your organization to understandwhat they go through, and then you become more dangerous in yourself and thebetter you know leader yourself when you can understand some of the things they gothrough. So I think again, it's just understanding the whole play of notjust like the customer patient stuff that you're working on so hard. Happens behindthe seems to get the product at the door, and I think that makesyou a lot more desirable in the market as yourself in a better leader.Yeah, and that's so powerful because you know, when you can create thatunity, then you can be more to more powerful, dominating the market andwinning market share instead of fighting each other internally. Exactly exactly. And like, listen, there's you know, we always use a joke, you know, sales and marketing always butt heads, and then marketing and Rd always bloodheads. Right, so there's always just like this downflow between of the day. We all have the same goal to make your your company successful, whateveryour mission is, process of treat these patients. Then you know, youultimately win. So again it comes back to the people, having the rightpeople, you know, throughout the organization, because maybe user and more fun.Yeah, Fun, key, fun. Yeah, we all have our weeks, right, like we still have that fun doing this. Like,you know, I speak of my colleagues all the time. It's like,did you look back to do have a fun week? Like, did youhave fun to we have some tough medians. At the end of the day.Are you like? I mean, I'm drained, but did you alsohave fun? If you didn't have been fun, then you need to thinkabout it, because this should be fun, right, right. Yeah, it'sit's such a crazy career path,...

...you know, to be in astartup company and to be, you know, bring an innovation to market, thatyou definitely have to have some fun along the way. Yeah, justburn out so fast, so fast, and especially we you know, wetalked a lot about obviously, when you know we're doing this this code environment, I think we're not going to happen so much quicker because for a lotof people, like you know, I am started to travel again, I'mstarting to get out, so I'm starting to get a little bit and likethe feel what life was like beforehand. But it's like you have left yourhouse for a year and then you're constantly working, or you leave your officehere in your teacher or whatever. You know, you're you're it's never anyright. So you've got to go take a walk on the blog, getout, like you know, do, do whatever you can do to howto separate it, because I think people will burn out really quickly right now. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So what are some of the challenges thatyou guys are facing. You know, we're in two thousand and twenty one. We've got a few months behind us now. You know, what aresome of the things that you guys are having to overcome in this year?Yeah, so some of the biggest thing. It's still a lot of it isstill you know, we're in a really good placement of fundraising standpoint.We've done really well. We had a watch of war and sexercise, sothat brought in a lot of funny and we're going to go to a bigcapital Rais. So our investor relation team is doing a fantastic job on theraising capital. So really lucky that we can say that. I would supposay, but site access. Like we're about to launch a really big randomizedcontrol trial to help prove out our artificial intelligent, you know, machine learningalgorithm, which is going to be a game changer for us. But we'restill having some mission getting into some sites. You know, the covid environment.Obviously there's a big part of doing trials where you have to go onsite and new site walks and check off on things. Some sites are stillnot letting us and they want to do all this virtually. So I thinkaccess is still a big issue with with covid. Obviously we're seeing people getvaccinated more in some of the some states are obviously harder getting to the othersand some of them were relaxed. I think just this this covid world isstill kind of a lot of instability in the market of people just, youknow, do we want, you know, vendors or suppliers coming to the hospital, whatever may be. So that's something that we still have to workthrough. Other than that, like you...

...said, we know we're about todo a big onslaught of ramping up hiring. That's going to be interesting coming intothis year. Obviously, where we conduct interviews and things like that,and it's up about people, how comfortable people are meeting facetodays. But honestly, I'm excited for this year. This has been a great time work.We're about to see all those heavy hours of braining efforts take off in thenext few months. Will really excited launched the new campaign. So it's beenfor us. It's actually kind of been like head in the sad for thelast six months, work for work and then finally the next few months you'llstart seeing all the stuff like okay, like we really move the needle.Yeah, start to see some of the fruit of your labor. Yeah,exactly, exactly, and that's big because that that really starts, because I'mpeople start looking at as some different weather like wow, this company's really moveand they're doing things, they've really pushed, and I think that that creates alot of buzz. We're already starting to see that, you know,some in bound leads starting to come and people already here and some of thethings we're doing, and that's how work and atlas or some of our otherthings, and that's exciting. HMM. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, as we wrap up here, is there anything that you anything else thatyou would want to share with our audience who might be at various places itor stages of the commercialization process? Yeah, I would say just, you know, taking the breasts sometimes. I think everyone wants everything to be soperfect. It's not going to be perfect. There are things in and I'm atipeig Guy Myself, so there are times where I'm like it's never goingto be raising to be heard, but if you don't just jump at somepoint, you'll never know and it's okay to fail. I would say Ihave failed I've failed a lot in my career and I actually don't have anissue with it because it is maybe your person I am today, and Ithink if we're not willing to try different things, to change things up,and also just because things are going great, don't just like sit back push theneither. Think about changing things up. Think about, like how do weget, you know, from good, better best, right, like howdo we keep going? So I think always be ready to innovate,always be ready to push yourself harder and, you know, again, I thinkthe biggest thing that I can embark...

...or putting on anything on that's listening, is think about the people you have in your organization. Like keep tryingto be better and better and better, because like that will make your wholejourney and commercialization everything else. Keep bringing good down into the organization and thebetter people you put around you or in the field or whatever will they maybe like you will, you will do better. So don't be afraid ofshaping the zone. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah, continuous improvementin you know, is someone like yourself in the role that you have,just managing this strategy development process, because it's going to continue to evolve andcontinue to change and being able to manage that, being able to bring peoplealongside with you in that process as you just continue to evolve, as themarket changes and you become in a different phase within that commercialization process exactly.And you're so right, I think you know, we sit back on thetime ago, okay, like what we look like today. My look differentand I even so. I look different six months in a year, andthat's okay. And we have put it out as we're going to learn alot, like we're we've done a lot of other more contesting but when yougo to a full scale launch, we think we have a Colin, butsomething might come out of blue, and that's okay. We're okay to say, all right, let's not be so set on the ways we have itnow. Like the market is going to give us the feedback and we needto be able to be ei there, you know, pivot with that orchange over offered and whatever may be. And that's the I think that's thefun part. Also being one of the smaller players, who's hopefully Sir thenyou know some of the bigger organizations. That's like moving the titanic and that'sthat's the fun part. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, definitely the the small guyadvantage and fast and nimble. Yeah, exactly. Oh Well, how dofolks get a hold of you if anybody wants to follow up with youafter the show? Yeah, absolutely. So you can reach out to usthrough into at perimeter madcom. So it's just I and fo at perimeter medcom. So or we're perimeter medcom is our website. So again, thank youso much for your time. I really...

...enjoyed this. Thank you so muchat having you. If I thank you, thank you so much for listening.I know you're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market andI value your time and attention. To get the latest episodes on your mobiledevice, automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who sharedthe show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of HealthInnovators.

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