Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 78 · 8 months ago

How Amazon’s growth principles apply to healthcare w/ Steve Anderson, author of “The Bezos Letters”

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Technology: you know it’s a good thing, but it changes so fast - sometimes you just need someone who can break it down, parcel it out, and help make sense of it all.

Steve Anderson’s interest in technology was so compelling, he left his career in insurance to build his own business helping other companies do just that: make sense of all that technology.

After discovering early shareholder letters penned by Amazon’s Jeff Bezos, he began making the connections between cutting-edge technology, customer obsession, and Amazon’s success.

“The Bezos Letters: 14 Principles to Grow Your Business Like Amazon” is the result of those letters and Steve’s research on the guiding principles that helped build a trillion-dollar company.

Humble, funny, and incredibly insightful, Steve delivers insights and knowledge you do not want to miss out on. If you want to run your business like Bezos, you want to watch this show!

So, grab a notebook and a pen because you’re going to want to take notes.

Here are the show highlights:

  • What successful failure is and why it’s a thing (9:22)
  • How to practice dynamic invention and innovation (14:52)
  • The importance of having every employee think like an owner (17:42)
  • The key practice that is a sure path to profit (22:16)
  • What customer obsession really looks like (28:31)
  • Why technology is a big value add for customers (37:05)

Guest Bio

Steve Anderson parlayed his early days in the insurance industry into a career as a speaker and consultant on technology and risk.

Steve is a firm believer that we can all impact our world and make our marks for the better through a risk and growth mindset.

So sure, in fact, that he authored the best-selling book: “The Bezos Letters: 14 Principles to Grow Your Business like Amazon.”

Steve earned his BS in Business Administration and Economics from Taylor University and his Masters in Legal Studies and Insurance Law from the University of the District of Columbia.

Check out “The Bezos Letters” at TheBezosLetters.com or, if you’d like to reach out to Steve, you can connect with him on LinkedIn at Steve Anderson.
 

IYOU're listening to health, innovators,a podcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and earlyadopterswho are shaping the future of health care on your host Doctor Roxey movie welcome back health, innovators. I amso excited about today's episode. We are going to shape things up a bit,we're doing something very differently than we normally have so for the lasttwo and a half years, we have pretty much solely interviewed healthcareinfluencers earlier doctors or innovators themselves, and I read thebesos letters a while back last year and I just thought I would love to haveSteve Anderson on the show. So we can pick his brain and find out a littlebit more about how this even came about and then also to be able to learn. Ithink there's a lot of wisdom that we will be able to learn from his bookthat apply to the healthcare industry so without further ade. Welcome SteveAnderson, the author of the besose letters welcome to the show rocky thankyou so much for heaven, Ma'aam looking forward to our conversation yeah. So so,let's just get started by telling our audience a little bit about yourbackground and then how this book even came about. I think that's such aninteresting sport sure so I come out of the insurance industry early in my career worke for twodifferent insurance, AGENCI selling insurance primarily to businesses, and during that time I also developed a real interest intechnology and so shifted in one thousand nine hundred and ninetynine to starting my own firm and starting to help the industry,primarily insurance agents of brokers, understand all this new technology thatwas coming and how they could apply it to their own organization, and you knowthe last twenty five years I've been doing that well, probably should actually figure out thedate, but probably about three four or five years ago. I was really looking atall of the technology and how rapidly it was changing and started. Asking thequestion is the biggest risk an organization faces actually not takingenough risk and because technology is changing, fast organizations didn'thave the time they used to have to kind of figure things out right. It was justhappening. Sit a much much faster pace, yea and so exploring that question. I startedlooking at businesses, not just insurance, butjust businesses that had made the transition well and those that had not,and you kN W some obvious names. Now I think in blackberry, blockbuster searsKodak. You know all struggled with technology, changing on them and theircore businesses being really decimated and they took too long to pivot andchange and then looked at companies that had done it well and that's whereI came across the Amazon and certainly known as a inventive andinnovative company, and I discovered the letters to shareholders that Jeffbezo started writing in housand nine hundred ninety seven when they firstwent public and wrote every year actually up until last year. Now thebook covers up to two thousand and eighteen letter which was published intwo thousand and nineteen, and what I discovered in that was principles that I believe that Bezosand Amazon used to grow that, I think, could apply to any business, regardlessof you know whether they sell stuff online or retail stores or other typesof businesses. So it's...

...it's interesting to me how this thispath has really transformed and changed your life and- and I mean I know it'snot one letter, but it's a Le a shareholder letter, fom one thousandnine hundred and ninety seven by one man is just really transformed yourlife. That's just really incredible, and what a brilliant idea where youwere able to translate these shareholder lettersinto these growth principles. So how did that come about? And what was thatlike for you so early on? I mean I literally read acouple letters and thought wow. You know there's a lot of really goodinformation here that I think again any business could use, and so I actuallycreated that first step was creating a one page summary of each of the lettersyou know: kind of keymetric sales or number of customers and then key quotesand then kind of takeaways. You know how can this apply and I actually wasgoing to created it as a pdf giveaway right giveme your remail address lead, magnet whatever you know, however, you want tocall it, and fortunately my wife has been in thepook book, publishing business for a long time and sent it out to a coupleof people, including her, and she immediately came back and said this isa book. This is not a giveaway and so that started the process of writing thebook and in kind of a quick story there. Even that shifted, because I startedwriting. You know the book in Chrinological Order, Righ, one thousandnine hundred and Niney eventy said E, One thousand nine hundred and ninetyeighty said this, you etce and because I am fortunately married to a brilliantauthor and book strate. Just really, and at one point when I gave the youknow really first kind of manuscript rafter her and she came back to me andsaid Yeah. I need to talk to you. Well, you know, as a husband, maybe notalways a good thing. So we sat down and she basically lookedat me and said this is really boring. You know nobody cares what year he said.What Huh are there principles that you can extract out of this? That peoplecan, you know, take and apply and we could do it, and so that was the shiftand I was devastated for a little while right. My little baby was ugly Di ringwor everything well and that'swhat I thought, and fortunately I didn't, because I had all of the e thegerms, the colonels the nuggets there. We just reformatted it aroundprinciples and four cycle, so the fourteen principles are grouped intofour different cycles test, build, accelerate and scale, and you know thatwas brilliant on her part and I think really is what is resonating withpeople that it's easier to digest easier to, consume and easier tounderstand. Yeah Yeah. Absolutely so I think most of the people that would betuning into this are in health care. Like I had said in the introduction,and so the first question I have for you is: Does this apply for healthcare? Well, the easy isshort answer is, ofcourse the longer answer is how and you know that really is looking at. Youknow some of the principales and let me I'm going to pick out just a couplethem. You know I'll. Ask you to pick out what you think might migh resonate,but I'm going to start with principal number one in the test cycle, which isencouraged, successful failure. Now, I'm sure some people just kind ofwent what right we you do that we can't do right. You know we could kill somebody.You know I, my son in law...

...is a medical physicist, so you knowagain. I remember him early on when they were dating. You know saying something like yeah. Ineed kind of make sure the radiation is right, because if it's not, we couldkill somebody right right. So I do get that you need to be careful and if, ifyou're not experimenting was something new and I think about all the medicaladvances right, they started out as I wonder, if let's try this experiment,Yeah and and from besos perspective, that's actually the core at Amazon isinvention, and he said that you may have read that he announced youstepping aside a CEO and moving into an executive chairman position, but in hisemail to employeve announcing that transition. You said you know: IAMAZON has been successful. What's thekey to our success. Well, he says it's invention, which I think is veryinteresting right, because we talk about innovation and we talk about allthese things. But what it goes on to say is that you know we have inventednew things that have become normal yep right. A kindelee reader was a new wayto consume a book, but is now normal. A review of a product or book on theAmazon website was new, but now almost ihto say nobody, but most people willlook at reviews before they decide on what product they want to buy. So Ithink yes absolutely have to be careful and you have to experiment and ifyou're experimenting you're going to fail, because if you know you're notgoing to fail, it's not an experiment and how you learn from that failure andthat's that's the phrasing successful failure. A failure is a failure. Yes, you wantto avoid it, and even Beso says later on that you know. There's a bad kind offailure and the example he gives is a fulfilment centers. He says: We'vebuilt a lot of them. We know how to build fulfilmand centers. So if webuild one and it's a failure, it doesn't work, something that's anoperational failure. That's unacceptable right! The way I phrase itis that Amazon has an intolerance for incompetence. So that's not what we'retalking about, but we are talking about. I wonder if this will work yeah andthat kind of idea of then taking those experiments, learning from them tocreate something new. You know, I think, is a core concept that actually, Ithink, does apply in the insurance area, especially with the work that you'vedone. You know with innovation within that sector of the economy. I thinkthat's so true and I hope everyone- that's listen going to listen to thisreally takes that to heart, because it really determines like how you filter,successful failure right how you interpret that we're not talking aboutHahalf, baked ideas, we're not talking about you know. Even the word MVP minimal,viable product people are like Wel. We can't do that in healthcare. Well,we're not talking about like a car with three wheels. It still needs fourwheels, and so you know, as long as you are, you know practicing like the stuffthat we know to be true, like around IRB when we're conducting research andtesting things, there's going to be some different guard railes and somedifferent concessions or considerations that we need to make, but don't get so afraid of it, that wedon't that we lose out on being able to make sure that we're buildingbusinesses that are sustainable in the long term, because we weren'tcontinuing to event or innovate because we thought well. We can't do thatbecause that's dangerous in healthcare yeah, one of the phrases I use a lot isthat the the biggest risk a successful businesstakes is their success, meaning...

...they're successful what got them therethey've start protecting, not looking at what's next. What else do we can?What else can we do in a and one of the favorite phrases besos uses is whatelse can we invent on behalf of the customer and I think keeping that in customer beat the patient be at the doctor, BEA staff? You know within the organization,you know what what's their friction point, what can we do to help improve,what they do and how they do it in the experience that they have yeah yeah?Absolutely so when you- and I talked before you had said- you know, heyhere's an idea, you know pick one of the principales from each of the fourgrowth cyples and I went to do that and I was like oh my gosh. This is so muchmore difficult than I thought this is like trying to pick my favorite child. Well, I know a you say that I haveseven grandchildren, so I always I'm not always often will get asked youknow, what's the best one or wa favorite or what you know jus like I don't know how to answer that, and Ithink we it is- and I think what's important to here to understand is thatprincipals stand on their own yeah, but they also interact with each other. Soit's it's, how you condect this one and that one- and I think, looking at theprinciples is where am I at now right? What do I neednow? You know so, certainly in the test area, I'm you know n. The third principle there is, you know,practice dynamic, invention and innovation. And again I worked a lot onthat word and because again for Besos and his thinking, invention is so keyand important. What's different at Amazon bease, they don't have an rnddepartment. Every employee, literally fulfilment center on up to executives,are expected to be looking at what they do and thinking of ways to improve it.So that's why it's dynamic and they have built a culture reallythat takes decision making down to its lowest level possible. That has thecompetency to be able to make those decisions. I think that is so brilliant and it itto me it's the only way where you can. You know turn something from nothinginto a trillion dollar company right. That puts a lot of pressure on aninternal RND department. You know versus having sixty sand people thatare working towards that invention and innovation process. Well, and that'swhat's key about that successful failure again how these interact isthat employee? I'm convinced employeesaren't afraid of failure, they're afraid of the consequences of failure mright, because most organizations want you know: Yeah Go Hea andexperiment, but you better be right. Well, if it's an experiment, you're notalways going to be right, and so what what are the either positive ornegative consequences to that like and Amazon has a couple of awards. You knowfor people who are thinking of how to improve the customer experience or howto improve internally and though literally their wards are notcashthey're symbolic, but really key to drive that culture within theorganization Shor Yeah, absolutely you know, and that's one of the things thathas come up very often when I'm talking to corporate innovators of how do theycreate this culture of innovation, especially in healthcare, where it'snot been so common you're, not necessarily hiring peoplethat think like that that have that natural, inventive mindset, but who areso much more immersed in those challenges. Those day today, challengesso they're, better experts than the people at the top Lik o idiate on whatthose solutions might be. So this is...

...kind of skipping a little bit, becauseI know culture is around more in like the last broth cycle around scale, butI think, like you, said, they're intertwined together, you know. So what is? What is an organization needto do to really be able to shape to get to shaping that are 't full staff, RNDculture? I think a couple comments I'll make onthat. In that you're right, a that's. The scale cycle where I talk aboutmaintaining your culture and you know basis, talks again a lot about culture,and you know the way he phrases it is you discover your culture, you don'tcreate your culture because you have a culture and you can impact it. So Amazon does a lotof things around that and, and one of them is th t they have fourteenleadership principles and again these are theire. You know kind of how weoperate as as a company as a business, and there are some crossovers betweenthe leadership principles and the growth principles, not as many as I thought there might be,but but it as e, for example, the culture that they create, even inthe shareholder letters you know, tha. The typical name forsomebody who owns a piece of stock is a shareholder Beso started in probablyabout two thousand and four five or six calling them share owners, Mright andso, and he says in his very firs onethousand nine hundred and ninety seven letter. It is you know getting theright. Employees are going to be key to our success in the future and thereforethey must be owners. They must think, like owners,yeah and actually what he said is th y. They must think like owners andtherefore they must actually be owners, and so their compensation plan foremployees from the very beginning has been yes competitive, but not top sary.But you know that kind of stuff, but their compensation was defaulte tostock options. Right so was it who wouldn't want to be a share owner ofAmazonas Amazon specially now right now, those first ten years or so you knowthat was a question. Do I even want right, but, but especially now, sothat's you know, that's part of that that culture, I think part of it, isreally encouraging experimentation, and you know one of the things I talk about to try and explain. That is what is your organizations award for anemployee that has the most successful failure, meaning what did they try? That wascrazy and it didn't work, but it was a crazy idea that might have worked in fact, most ofAmazons big bats. What he calls big bats, prime mark a place, a ws allstarted as failures, but what they learned from thoseinitial early failures grew into something really big. So so I think that this is sofoundational and I'm going to go out on a limb and say I cannot imagine anyinnovator, any health care leader that I've ever come across at any level withany organization across the country that has that type of reward system and in you know, in my mind that Amazon-and I think a lot of people know this- that Amazon is the sleeping dragon whenit comes to healthcare. I absolutely yep, it is, is the most the biggest threat to disrupting thestatus quo in healthcare, and...

...you know so taking heed to what youjust described, I think is so fundamental. You know you've got Amazon who understands check and how toleverage it, how to understand leverage data and really understands consumerisminside and out three things that healthcare really really as a wholestruggle wit Yep, but but then you have haven and so what happened there? Well, youknow, I certainly have my opinions on. I'm GOINGNA also say kind of like yougo out of he lemb and say: Amazon is not trying to disrupt healthcare, hey, they are trying to invent on behalf oftheir customer a better way and as of result, health care will be disrupted,but their purpose. Their goal is: Oh Gosh, let's go after health care. Idon't believe that right disruption is a result or a byproduct of invention,so pillvack right, yeah, quired, pillpack pharmacy different way.Solving a problem for those that take multiple medications, trying to makesure they take the right one at the right time right day, right time, etcta much easier way than having you know. Your little pill dates, and you knowall of the stuff that's out there now taking all of that friction away, soI'll go to haven. I think the problem with haven from the very beginning wasit wasn't just Amazon and your kind of your comment back Berksyor, hathaway,JP Morgan, don't have the same culture and mindsetthat Amazon does, and so I it'Syou Know Hindsights, obviously alittle bit easier, but had I really thought closely about that? I probablycould have predicted that early on that yeah, you know it's chances of success are much harder, because Amazon justhas such a different culture around solving problems for their customers,Yep yeah. So so I think to that point, the the the other thing I think a lotof these tych companies believe is that you know that healthcare just doesn'tunderstand tech and data and consonerism and will come in and we'llbe able to dwe understand that we'll be able to come in and service ourcustomers and a much better way, and they have the tendency to underestimate the complexities ofreimbursement and regulatory right n and think that I think that you knowthat whole aggregate of the power of haven thought that they would be ableto wield some influence much more than they were actually really able to doand changing how things work in healthcare. So I han out the head Yeknow your fitished finisheur thought that IAS thin th. The message is, isthat you know if we're, if for the for the inventors and the innovators toreally grab ahold of these growth principles, because it is almost, I way I mean to say it a surepath like if you can figure out the technology, the the data and theconsumerism. Like. That's your that's your path to profit, that's your prapto make sure that tomorrow does Amazon doesn't come in and just completely demolish your business and your youknow left on the same shelf as blockbuster and Nokia Yeah. So what Ithis is related, so in the accelerate cycle. Yet one of the principles ismake complexity, simple and based on this discussion, I think you might beinterested in how I came up with that...

...thought. So it was. It was when Amazon purchasepillpack around a billion dollars. Obviously bignews: The stock of the three largest drugstore change. I don't remember thenumbers now, but drop significantly, just on the fact that they acquired-and I remember listening to a I was in the car listening to probablyNPR show or something and the one of the CEOS. I think it was wall Greens,but I don't remember that I'd have to look that up actually, but he said on an earning's call: we're notworried about Amazon, because it's much more complex pharmacy, right, drug drugdelivery as much more complex than Amazon realizes yeah, and I laughed outloud again and literally the thought that came to mind. That's what Amazondoes is make complexity so, and you know coming out of theinsurance industry. I think like healthcare, there is a reliance onregulatory barriers to kind of selfinsulate or protect or, and that will last for some time period,intil somebody, maybe somebody else. Besides the Amazon figures out, youknow a different, better, more streamline way around some of thosetraditional regulatory barriers. Well, nothing like a global pandemic. To helpbe a Catalel, I mean you thouk information, talking about trends,getting accelerated, my goodness yeah, very much yeah. So all the stodgyregulatory and reimbursement that they've been used to infulate andprotect themselves all of a sudden gets denoledshed in warps feed during aglobal pandemic. Now the jury still out on how much of that gets resurrected.You know right and the next year, but it will surely be interesting. Thiswill shoot. It will certainly change. You know how much or how fast certainlyis up, but I think there's no question. It will change Yep. So I want to makesure that we have time to talk about another growth principle that you hadin the build cycle. Around obsession over customers, yeah Acain, one thousand nine hundred andninety seven letter. It Bass, Os talks about obsessing, overcustomers or customerobsession will be a core tenant of what Amazon does and again it has, and youknow again, it's was talking in one interview where thehost said well, custoer obsession. You know, Ithink we all assume we that we know that, and I I came back later and said I'dlike to revisit that, because I think too often, businesses talk aboutcustomer focus and customer journey, and customer experience and CustomeryService Amazon talks about obsession which is just a whole different leveland word to use about what Amazon does, and that obsession is why we have one day: Delivery Right,because three customer pillars for Amazon are wide selection, low pricesand fast delivery. Now that probablys not those same pillars for a healthcareprovider yeah, but you know what are your pillars and are you obsessively figuring out how to invent on behalf of the CO customer? Inthe phrase I like to use is take friction out of your interaction with acustomer. Well, I can tell my experience with alot of health care providers. There's a...

...lot of friction like filling out thesame, damn form every time I go for an appointment. I mean hello come on or den giving you ten forms in a clipboard and you've got to put your name in address and phone number to Pllan.That's right, and I did have one frankly that gave me an ipad yeah thatagain, what are the things you can do to make that experience the best it canbe, and you do that by obsessing over those small details. So so there's a- and I think to yourpoint, there's a lot of healthcare organizations that have some missionstatements and vision, statements, D in some plaks and whatnot about this corevalue of Patien, of focusing on the customer and putting the patient atpatient centric right. But it's a big difference to talk aboutit say it hanging on the wall than it is to actually live that out and frommy perspective I would say that the industry has transitioned to Beng moretechnology focused then customer focusyou know so now it's like reallyexciting. Ai, artificial inteliven tibiligence tell a health virtual careall of this tech. That's getting so much attention. That is absolutelyusurping. The obsession with customers yeah- and I think that can be- and Ithink that's you know not understanding how the technologysupports the customer. You know an and replace it, and you know again, that's a Quartenan again. I go back tothat phrase, inventing on behalf of the customer. What are you doing to do that?How are you thinking about that? How are you, how are you even identifyingwhere the customer has a problem that needs a solution? You know what Amazon they actually have a prous. That, Ithink, is one of their really secrets to making this work and its clate FerSteve to get I he grand Ryan and it's called a six page narrative or a sixpage memo and short history in two thousand and four jeff basis sent outan email to his senior leadership team and said no longer. Will anybody give apresentation in a senior leadership team meeting using power, point orKENOP slide presentations are banned, what they replayi me the death of somany companies an and what Hou Sai and I'm payerphrasing.Now, what he said was people hide behind bullet points andhaven't completely thought through what it is they're actually proposing. Whathe said is you will create, and this is the process in place today. You willcreate a maximum of six page written memo. First thing: You'll do is create afuture press release so for whatever you're pitching whatever idea productservice platform, you write the press release for the day. It's released tothe public and again there's some components in there hooking through allof those, but one of them is what's the benefit to the customer. Why is the customr going to like thisand you use that as a Roadmat for actually creating the product and then you go on and you create anFaq? What are the questions? People are going to ask and from the differentcustomer questions, maybe internal operational questions and you answerthose questions in theire. Two answers, there's a short answer: You know: Canwe do this? No, the longer descriptive answer is here's. Why not or here's ourplan for the future e and that is not handed out before themeeting? It literally is passed out as paper to the participants in theconference room and the first ten...

...fifteen twenty, maybe thirty minutes,depending on how big the project is, is spent. Reading the MEMUM wow a basiscalls it it's like study, hole and he said executives are busy they're goingto say they read it and they didn't or they didn't spend enough time. So we'regoing to carve out this time to focus just on this, and then we discuss it,not people going through and although you know you knowo do presentationsometimes, and somebody will interrupt with a question o to Oh. I got that inthe you know. Next, two two more slides hang on. None of that happens right,rigtall, the and theire writing notes in the margins going okay, a what aboutthis whered. This data come from what you know so now. Your discussion ismuch more fruitful and helpful again, culturally, really hard to do. But an Amazon that is what's done andand part of the benefit is one to slow down to speed up actually Andy Jasse.Current CEO of Amazon web services, new CEO of Amazon, everything heard him in a speech, and he talkedabout why this is so powerful and Yo said. You know a lot of times.Programmers developers will go in and create all of this stuff and then getto the end and realize it's not solving the problem. They thought it was goingto if they had spent more time thinkingthrough all the problems, all the issues you know, what problem is this going to solve?How are we going to do it? They would save tremendous amount of timethroughout the project. So it is this idea of slowing down to speed up. I love that I feel like there's so much. We culdUNPACK for days. Just in what you just said. My brain is like pop rocks. Rightnow I mean, and you know I've been tryingto help think through with businesses. How do we introduce that into a culture?That's never even thought in, and I think whatyou do is you do it in the smallest team possible, meaning it might be justyou know you and a three direct reports, and you start doing this, and and andexperiencing the benefits and learning from it etce and tell I'm starting anew business say that yeah and I use this process to pitch to investors andit was awkward and all kinds of stuff to do it. I learned so much and I endedup with seven significant investors out of h because of how it helped the discussion move faster when we took the time upfront wow, that's incredible, yeah, absolutely! So a couple more questionsfor you. Let's talk about the acceleration growth cycle because wehaven't talked about that accelerate accelerating time with technology, andthen we will open it up for Forqna okay, so this really is kind of that core ID.I talked about with technology developing much faster than it ever hasand how you can use a technology to literally accelerate time right. It'sthat idea that you know th the you know the days are longer. The years areshort and wrigt all those kind of comparisons that you can maketechnology is, you know key at Amazon and it is cort of what they do, butthey don't let it overshadow other things, and so you know lookingat the kendle. Let me look at the kindlright, so that was Amazon's first hardwareproject and that actually was developed in what's called Lab, O hundred andtwenty six, which is their hardware, you know,...

...hesitate to call it RND, but a separateplace where echo came him out of and a lot of hardware stuff is coming out of and and basis talks about is releasedto two thousand and seven. They spent three years prior working on it, but using that technology again toaccelerate the consumption of information, you know e ink and actually probablythe best technology in the kindle iswhisper sink hugely complicated. So I can read: Havea book open on my phone on the kindle lap? I could go to my ipad on thekindlelap and make either automatically or force right sinking to the lastplace. I read technologically extremely difficultbecause my ipad could be idle for months Yeh, but Amason has to know that and they have to figure out okay, whichis the latest version, and where have I read, you know to the to the particularpoint in time, but they're using technology to help people manage their time betterand I think that's the core concept there and who doesn't need that right. I mean it's like the biggestshortage. We have his time. Yeah Yeah and you know another example. Justjumps to mind is again. You mentioned Tela Medicine. I had the experience of having a Y. U know annual checkup in normally. I would go down toVanderbilt University and spend like three hours and see probably five orsix seven different people, and you know time consuming and sometimes I would skip it because itwasn't all that important and because again one of the changes we did that with Tele Medison and zoom andeverybody was on the same call yeah. It was like thirty five minutes and it waslike, and my daughter does the same thing and it was like oh my gosh thatwas so much more efficient right again, your example taking the industry kindof forcing them whether they like it or not, to try new things. My experience is like I don't ever wantto go back Gong into an office and sit there for fifteen minutes waiting forthe next person to o be able to come in no, not at all and here's the otherthing. I've noticed because I've experienced it a handful of times isthat I don't. If you're in the doctor's waiting room, you might have to waittwo hours, they won't make. You wait two hours on a Zon. They are so muchmore timely on his zome session, so it is definitely a big value ad to the tothe customer, and I, like those, that's an example of a trend. That's not goingback, you know! So again, it's learning okay! Well, how do we do this now and Ialso want to emphasize there are times when you actually need to see somebodyright. So it's not it's not replacing everything, but now we can now we canbetter utilize resources, knowing when we can do it virtually and when we needto do it in person. Yeah Yep. Absolutely so. I love with MichaelHyett, said in the forward of your book, where he really described reading yourbook as an opportunity for the readers to be able to almost like personallyhave Jeff besos as a business coach and like the light bulb, went off, and I gooh my gosh, who wouldn't want that and and then to have you as the translatorright to be able to translate all of those ideas and strategies andprinciples that were in those letters and translated into something that wecan easily digest and consume and apply...

...is just absolutely brilliant. And so Iwant to encourage everyone that is listening and watching to go out andbuy a copy. The book, if they haven't already or thank you yeah, and if you do, if you pick up the book,be sure to go to the BESOS Letterscom, because there's some additionalresources there, workbook and really the point was trying to help. You applywhat I talk about, not just okay, it's a good, read or that's interesting, butactually take those and do something with them awesome. Well, I'm glad thatyou said that, because that was going to be my next question was, as we wrapup on the session, is: How can people get a hold of you? Do they just reachout to the website? How do they can yeah well first place for the book andagain we've been fortunate with some great success: New York Times, WallStreet Journal, Not New York Times Wall Street Journal USA, today Best Seller,and we just we now have eighteen languages that has been translated into.In fact, I kind of chuckle. Just this week we got another contract fromAlbania, so it's going to be translated there. So it's like, I hade to look upwhere it was right, but it does have international interest in it and and we're really happy with that, I wouldsay the other place is I'm very active onlinked in, and so, if you want toreach out there and connect, I think that Roxy, that's where you and I endedup connecting and yeah t be happy to. Let me knowthat you listened here and be happy to connect with you. There awesome thankyou so much for sharing your wisdom and your insights with our audience today.My pleasure, thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and Ivalue your time and attention to get the latest episodes on your mobiledevice automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP likeapples, podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening, and Iappreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues Seeyou onthe next episode of Health, innovator.

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