Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 1 year ago

Slow-go? No-go! Business relationships require agility w/ John Hui

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

For healthcare innovators, getting a head start on your competition can seem like a tall order - especially when we’re in an unpredictable market.

Things have slowed, doors are closing, and you already poured all your available resources into your product. So, how are you going to keep your solution relevant and on the minds of your customers?

Take a deep breath, relax, and get ready for the inside scoop on how to use relationship building and collaboration to build those key business relationships that are critical to your success.

In today’s episode, Twiage CEO and co-founder, John Hui, dishes out his first-hand experience with a looming pandemic. He tells us how he pivoted his solution to meet a changing need, allowing his company to stay one step ahead of its competition.

John shares his thoughts on being agile and nimble in this rapidly-evolving market. And get his secret recipe that can sustain even the most frantic among us: a combination of flexibility and openness to collaborate with clients.

Here are the show highlights:

  • How getting ahead of a problem can keep you ahead of the game (1:02)
  • Start with a problem, apply co-creation, and create powerful solutions (8:12)
  • This is what a successful collaboration/co-creation process might look like (10:23)
  • When sales strategies need to take a backseat to building relationships (13:36)
  • Sales strategies that can get you in front of the customer (17:38)
  • Underinvesting in these tools can do your innovation a disservice (23:45)
  • Ways to stay agile and nimble with relationship building as you move ahead in a post-COVID market (26:56)

Guest Bio

John Hui is the Co-Founder and CEO of Twiage — award-winning healthcare IT startup that provides a novel mobile communication and workflow technology that enables hospitals and ambulances to accelerate life-saving emergency care.

With over 20 years in the healthcare innovation and development industry, John’s career has taken him to both China and the US and has touched on nearly every corner of the digital health and healthcare industry.

John received his MBA from Cornell University and has attended Columbia Business School and the University of California, Berkeley, Haas School of Business. John is also an active mentor for graduate and undergraduate students through the Executive on Campus Program at Baruch College, where he is President of the International Business Association.

If you want to reach out to John to learn more about Twiage,  or to simply ask questions, he is active on LinkedIn at John Hui or you can visit twiagmed.com

Welcome to Coiq, where you learn howhealth innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy,founder of Legacy, DNA and international beath selling author ofhow health innovators maximize market success through handed conversationswith health, innovators earlier doctors and influencers you'll learn how tobring your innovation, some idea to start up to market domination, and now,let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq. Welcome back to the show coiqlisteners on today's episode. We have John We, who is the CEO and Co founderof Twias John Welcome to the show, thank you for having me Roxy Pleasureto be here. It's so great to have you here nd. I am very interested in thisconversation today. So first off, let's just tell our listeners a little bitabout you, your background and what you've been innovating sure I am a sere healthcare entrepreneur whohas been working a healthcare engishtry for almost twenty years I run a digitalhealth start up, a company called a tweogy based in New York City. Weprovide a novel communication, an TRIAC technologies between hig hospitals andembulances. Now these days were very busy to help our customers, which areeither Er. Physician nurses or first responders continue to refine oursolution to come by the Covic crisis. So so John, I remember from ourprevious conversation. You found yourself in a very uniquesituation earlier this year that kind of positioned you ahead of mostinnovators, most people, but most innovators as well in the US. You knowshare share that story with us sure that's right. Unfortunately, I wasvisiting China due to my dad's illness in late January. The second day after Ilended in Shahi China, the Chinese government shut down the city of Wohan,which was the original epic center of the COBE crisis. So I were have beentrapped in the hotel rooms for almost nine days and witness the first handohow severe the Cobi crisis could be. So after returning back to the US, I asame what O my team to actually come back with a package helping our firstresponders to deal with Hovi at that time. The the sentiement of the disease was not that big, even among alot of emergency car professionals, but we were able to get ourself ahead ofthe game to really design a clinical tree out of portico shop, our firstrespounders and ER professionals to prepariing events about potential covyand fast forward to early March. When...

Covi situation gets worse ane worse, wewere able to rot this out to all of our customers and since then the usage hasbeen really through the roof. So so John There's so many layers forus to talk about just in that small segment of your story. So what was itlike being in Wohan during the shutdown yeah? I was not Iohi was in ShanhiOloto that I was what was it like that Beingini? I have to say in China. The citizenswere definitely more disciplining away that the probably because China,fifteen years ago, this actually seventeen years ago, was hit by thesarce a'llbreak. So people quickly, you know, get PP PP to protectthemselve at least face mask virtually everyone of the street overthe two days wearing PPP PPE. When every time you go in and out of apublic space, whether it's a more restaurant or the Hoteli Stadi, theyactually have h use to these thermol device to check my temperature to makesure that not you know having a fever or something so you suddenly. This issomething at that time unwitnessed before, because Shahi was a city oftwenty million plus people an who Hii this epic center had eleven millionpeople to lock down such a larger area. That maginitude was unbelievable yeah,so I think that all theherd of the challenge back ten. I think it'sincredible that you had such a first look. You know compared to many of us in this country and as ahealth innovator, you know had a jump start to be able to you know kind ofstart to let the wheels turn right and start to idiate really quickly on what your team could do to help thiscrisis. That, obviously you know you anticipated, would be making its waveover here. Yes, absolutely! Well, we deal with theemergency care professional, so speed to get things down is essetial. We W. I think we were able to go thisout in just two days to all ou users and we started seeing usage comingimmediately and today, as as yesterday made of fourteent, we have successivlytread the more than sixteen hundred suspected covit patients for hospitalsin thirteen states. Wow, that's incredible! It really isincredible. I mentioned this to you before. I think that you must have someincredible future and plans for you to be able to you know, survive being inChina and then New York and not even...

...get sick. It's fantastic! What do youright very fortunate, very fortunate yeah? Soso you know kind of diving deeper into. I want to kind of dive deeper into whatwhat was tweage before covid. What was your precovid market strategy as well sure so, tre ato at the in thebeginning was designed to help first responders and hospitals to acceleratelife, saving emergency care, and it's hard to believe that we're in thetwenty fist century and the foot emergency care people are still usingoutdated and radio communication and pennand paper to record everythingright so early on. We think we came up with a very nice solution to help themtransform their emergency care communication. We use a FREEMI model tohelp first responders, which who are often underfunded to use the solutionfree of charge and then the hospitals pay a subscription feen to receive theDada. So from ver very early Ou, we established a a network and based onplatform solution to interconnect at these two parties together, and it'sbeen working out. W and Yo have power Mo close to four hundred ousendemergency transports. Okay, so what was that like, in the early daysof trying to figure out what the right business model was going to be for you?What were some of the considerations and some of the things that maybeyou've tried? Or maybe this was the business model that you originally setout to go to market with right so for any startup business fromzero to one and one to two are the most difficult part? Because you know wedidn't have enough credibilities to show our customers why this could work.The concept sounds Nice. In the beginning, we were very flexible towork without our customers to engage a pilot trials without being greedy tojust focus on the revetue model, but once we're able to get nice customerreference and usage, we became more confident to refine our business model.Today's business of SOMATO has changed significantly from what we first cameup with. We were more idealistic, like many other. First entrepreneurs startup compin in te early days, but we, you know W, have the discipline to listento customers to not be stubborn and be adaptable to the market voice andcustomer voice. So that's something that you know we talk a lot about hereon the show. Is You know, product co creation in the benefits, theincredible benefits of that? So you know, let's just kind of walk down thatprocess a little bit. What was it like...

...for you in that cocreation process, so tweiajo actually was debuted from ahakophone healthcare Hakathon, sponsored by a very well known, Harvor,affiliat in a medical center in Boston. So during that time we had a group ofpeople. We had EMT professional. We had a software designer. We had aphysicians altogether trying to create a problem, and so the lihtball went outwhen first, the EMP was complaining about how efficient the receivingprocess is at a hospital eds and the doctors jump on and sayin wait a minute.We never got enough information. So that's how the initial idea start tohappen now, just like miny business it just doesn't it doesn't just stop thereright, the team decided a to three out of the eleven people decided to testout a venture at a healthcare accelerator in New York. That's how theoriginal story got started. That's incredible! So talk about you know,starting with the problem instead of starting with the technology, and I think that that's a bigdifference for companies in kind of what sets them on a path for successversus failure. Yeah, absolutely, I think you knowdigital health, healthcare, it or digital transformation. There are nodifferent from the regular transformation. It'sjust technologies. Allow us to make everything simple and make the solutioneasier for people to adapt, but fundamentony. We still need to startwith a provib and come up with that benefits. First, Yeah Yep, so so John,you know, as Covid has happened over the last youknow couple of months. You know health. Innovators have been at differentpoints in this process and being able to pivot and react and respond indifferent ways. How did it impact Your Business? Youwere already you know, working with emergency services, and so you knowwhat did you need to pivot yeah, that's great pointing so we, I think, as manyof experts said, H t. This is the greatest time to start a business orreally fundamentally rethink our business model. So we quickly. Actually,it wrote out amom plan to tell em health solutions and we're able to testwith the various customers to come up with indifferent solutions to work withthe, for example. Traditionally we would sell to hospital users, but inthis cases hospitals are slower to react to be der to you know unfortunatesituation, I a staff Furlou or just the clinitions, a divert tete to to someother coving related to work, but we were able to talk to you, knowphysician groups to come out by passway.

Instead of focusing the larger contractwith the customers to utilize the opportunity to build relationship,first letoil custom, Neros werk there and were trying to address theirspecific an needs to deal with e Covid. We were actually able to come up with modeled fihop, the Er Physica boops andems professionals to use Tiach, not just as a communication treearctool, but as asemi documentation to afford them to deal with a covid during thes situationas well. For example, a lot of first responders during this unfortunate timedoing a lot of charity work, and these are Ou. True Heros they work reallyhard and without even knowing their efforts and sacrifice will be properlycompensated. So they ordered a quick documentation tool that allows them tocapture patiens demographic insurance, information and certain clinicalinformation in rich media, such as a secure the photos of videos and theircurrent documentation. Tools. Do not allow them to tamping to this kind of challenges. EASand twear traditionally does not. It does not serve as a tool to dodocumentation either, but we were able to talk to them in a short period oftime. Come up with an alternative solution to help them address that, Ithink that's going to help a lot of the first responders deal with this BoungRighto Yeah Yeah. So you know it sounds like there. There are a number of differentthings that have worked in your favor having a headstarton knowing this crisis. It's on its way, having worked really hard previously topenetrate some aspect of the market and have some established customers thatwere open and willing to collaborate withyou on how you could solve their new problems that they were experiencing. You know a lot of the health innovatorsthat I talk to you know, depending on what they where they were in theprocess. You know some of their target audiences have just closed the doors,whereas other folks, like you, those doors with existing customers are stillopen and they're kind of like hey, throw me a lifeline like you know like.I already have trust established with you, you're already delivering some value,but my needs and my priorities have changed and so creating a bit more ofan open door for that kind of collaboration and Co creation together,which is which is really exciting. Fo. I think for health innovators,because you get a chance to you know, make a difference which Ithink is a big part of why you got in the business anyway. Right yeah make animpact on live. Absolutely, I think the challenge is universal whet, I'm nothere to say that some of the our...

...contracting discussions not being slodedown due to maditory issues or just the many other challenges, but I think youknow at a minimum level. This is a great time to build relationships witha cost with customers within healthcare system. You know there's a time thatyou know. I think that we shouldn't be suresighted. It just don't make themfeel we're still trying to sell them. Something but youdoas utilize this timeto reassess our business strategy and offer then help. Sometimes it may notbe specific and nobody turned down you reach out to ten customers. Maybe sevenof them won't response, but the other three of them made and they wonlremember during challenge time who is reaching out tother. We even actuallyassembled some ppes a face mask ad official she to support some of ourlocal hospital customers just because genually genuilely, we you know as as apart of a citizen in a community. We want to help ou healthcare providers soshow your relationship at this time a wellingtohelp in some way people will really remember it over the lawn run. I think that that is a very important sale strategy for thistime in this period, is, is to cultivate that relationship, and maybe that be the in goal right now,like you said not selling them something, because now it's not necessarily thetime. I think that you know, like you said you know. If you have somethingthat can meet their needs right now, then we have an obligation to give thatto them to sell that to them, but at the same time, with with other potfolks, you know to cultivate that relationship is really where I think I want to say where organizationsshould pivot to, but really building relationships should been part of oursale strategy all along right. It's just kind of like the duration of thatis changing a little bit right. Relationships Really Co. TheLong Way, and if you recorl raxy about three years ago, two or two and halfyears ago, Amazon actually quited their trial to penetrate healthcare,especially hospital logistics pecuming system, because they realize in eachwould be sedy particularly healthcare. It's not about all about efficiency,but often it's about a relationship, and this is what Amazon is not good atbecause Theye, I often I massive effician platform, but they don't havemuch human touch right. So this is what, unfortunately, that I don't think ai oranything can truly replace, because it's a human nature that you like toget some information from a real person versus just googlein at all live. So Ithink a this is a great time to build relationship and ask for edvice rightyeah. One time you know the vives are...

...really valuable compared to just teonea single contract- hey it's Dr Roxy. Here with a quick break from theconversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves you need to make tosurvive and thrive in the new covid economy? I want every health innovatorto find their most viable and profitable pivid Strategie, which iswhy I created the covid proof. Your Business Tothekid, the pivot kit is astep by step framework that helps you find your best tivid strategy. It walksyou through six categories. You need to examine for a three hundred and sixtydegree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses, asyou make your way through this comprehensive kid, you'll be armed withthe tools, chips and strategies. You need to make sure you can pivot withspeed without missing out on critical details and opportunities, learn moreat legacy. Tythan DNACOM, Backsla Kit. What are some other you know, sales strategies arethings that you've done differently with doors being closed and you know hospital systems being busy.Is it predominantly asking for advice like how are you getting in front ofthem sure I would say you know in general,you want to get in touch with you. Often it's a not about given them a blow out kind of pitch, but consistencyin a way that that sells is is ATA. Art Solly is a Trulian, an R, because youhave to engage customers carefully to get asense of the boundary. It's almost like you making a ar craft. Do you put toomuch for so you put little right and you don't really know that until youkeep trying and you kind of like Gettinto, that confrercol was thatperson and yeah. You know onway back what they say. If they tell you not tofollow up too much, don't do so. If they tell you follow up with me twomonths, you do that in two months, but meanwhile udomize other content,marketing strategy or share some use to increase the chance of a peer to Purinfluence. We always allet. Our customers knows some other great newsthat we received from you know existing customers, whether they have a new wayor using something or tweear, just doing something different and alsothink about how to offer them value. As often it's director related with oursolution. Sometimes it's not so there's not a cookie as to do that. But firstyou never know. If you don't give it a Cho right number, two, it's okay! Ifthey say no and number three, you got to really be persistent in a way thatdoesn't irritate people enough yeah and it's okay. If one or two don't like Yorapproach as long as the vest majority of them acknowledge what you think and theother thing very important. One thing I learning bus thiss business is I'vebeen running triag for five years on...

...top of my previous career. Often peopledon't buy right away. It's not because they don't like your solution, butmaybe timy is a right, whether it's a budgetory issue or they could be verybusy with other initiatives. They just don't have the Ben with to engage your solution. Righ thinkabout it, often that some other people trying to seltl something to you whenyou're busy, especially bet to be setting so timby, is a right. I don'tthink in healthcare, Communicationis, very transparent right. Often peopledon't tell you you just don't hear back fromt them, but that doesn't don't getdiscouraged, keep troying occasionally and sometimes when time is right,whether they are influenced by ther competitors or industry, pearsopportunities, one knock the door again. What be Oh, yeah yeah. So John, youtouched on something that I think is so important is you know you can have asales process and I sales strategy, but really the goal is to as you'recultivating that relationship to get to know that person specifically and nottreat all sales opportunities or all business relationships the same becauseeveryone is different. I am a very like Higd, fast paced personality like Iwant people to ask me. If I'm ready to buy because I'm making that decisionright now, I don't Delly Dally. I'm not. You know evaluating my options overseveral months, but not everybody's, like that other people, if you go and-and you ask for it, they are offended, they are annoyed. They want to think about things and,like you said me, thinking about things is just my person. Maybe my personality,I'm cautious, I'm a little bit more risk averse, I'm thinking about thisprocess in this decision that I'm making, but it doesn't necessarily meanthat it's o know yeah so being able to ask thosequestions up front to be able to understand kind of what bucket thosethose prospects fall into. Absolutely so think about this. Youknow in a clinical setting, you have the tree adguders, who are askedpatients a few questions to narrow down whether you know what kind of specialtyyou need to see or what kind of o PROVEC right. So in sells, there are alot of whether you call a probe or in clinical setting cor a triach thefarmany different costumer profiles, modules that we can mearne from. Youknow certain customers are analytics. They like to take time to think analyze.Some customers, anliking, you, you know, could be more straightforward and someof them are more emotional. Some of them are truly value based t ecustomers, like myself, you like to look for what's the best and you know,pray expensive, cheap ore really relative depending on the products youlook at, so I think it's important to understand who your customers are. Italso understand what the purchasing process is. Unfortunately, in the BBsell psycho you deal with a lot of...

...variable parts, there's so manydifferent decision makers right. You need everyone to Sav, yes, but onlytakes one know so to be efficient. You could decide whether you need to decidewhether that prospect is the right person. You need to talk to or you thatcan make the decision or be a very important contributor part if heor sheis not and try to utilize a selling opportunity to have that person committo bridge you to the next person right or to look at the selling process tohave a mental expectition, as our experience goes out. Knowing how longit may take, you know, I sat up a more realisticable but, more importantly,have e imporforiol strategy. So in a way that you have a rolling pipelinethat you can close every month, although it takes time, but this isjust a necessary part that we all have to live with in a BTB Sandin,especially health care industry yeah. You know, and I think that, nomatter how much how awesome your technology isno matter what incredible problem it solves, it doesn't sell itself, and soI mean it seems really obvious, but you know so many times I see healthinnovators over, invest in the technology and leave very littleresources for marketing and for sales and just really doing themselves indisservice, and it sounds like part of your winning strategy has been as been appreciating those areas of thebusiness and investing in them, yeah that this is so true, so work. Thebusiness sactor Treogizi, like many others, is really defined as hackingable the services this is so true for especially SAST base a business modelin a BB study. You really have to devolte a lot of energy on the servicepar to make sure people stick with that, because customers, especiallyhealthcare professionals, they have so many different verbles. They have todeal with often you're fighting for a share of their mind, even though inorganization may have adapted technology, but you really need toManage Tho Change. Part well right change. Management is another piece ofart that you have to find a way to align incentive, get the ry people inthe room to send the to and still hangholde nowse. Some solutions areeasier. Some solutions are more complicated t each is a solution,that's as easy as can be, but we see that, unfortunately, all the timechange management in healthcare is never easy. Our healthcareprofessionals are heroes, theyare experts in the clinical doing things inclinical sety, but afte, not the best to adapt a new workfor technology, a GEused to what they do so o. let this far slip through your view and the customer success iscritical to build a long, sustainable...

...business, absolutely yeah. So many times I seehewl innovators kind of think the sale is the end right and it's not. It doesn't endthere by any means. The service part is so incredible. You know, especiallywhen I mean I think it's always really important, but especially when you'rein the early stages, because that positive experience of the postpurchase experience right that positive post purchase experience is soincredibly important to that word of mouth marketing that crosses the chasm from the early marketto the mainstream market. So it's just it's critical. It is the keyingredients to be able to grow and expand into more of a mainstream market. Yes, definitely I mean the nice thingabout SAS space in he. Business is H, there's a annual recurrent revenueright. So when why r you collecting that Revenu, don't forget Toug, Ideliver the service T's awsome right right right exactly so so John, as you kind of you know what is your what's next for fortweiage, as you think about you, know we're we're in Egt may now, so we'vegot little more than six months left of the year and there's so much unknownand uncertainty in this particular climate that we're facing what is what is on your mind? What'skeeping you up at night and what are you planning for sure so wer already think about thePosto Covis strategy, how we can make the solution easier to rod out. We have to look at the part of thestrategy as at what they call the platform positiony right. We want tooffer a cluster of solutions to to be well utilized by our icurrent customers,because that you know when you sell or introduce products. Your currentcustomer, the Costom of acquisitions, much lower the sale cycles. Much lowerand a profitability is also much better in gem. Yeah Yep and W also use morcurrent customers as e testing ground. Things such as you know, won Wul. Thescenario looks like post of cove, and this is a great time that you knowwhether industry experts of customers have more time to talk about, what'sgoing on their pinpoint, so we already started to think about these things. Ifyou ask me what keep me up in thet an, I is a really think about what the bestway to recruit talents and keep tarents. I think that's you know all the STARTUFcompanies- or you know, Seni mature, the company or even maturta company-should think about what we can offer during this challenging time, not justas a company a trying to squeeze our more practivity. Whyeveryone works at home, but really...

...they're help them to make them feelthat you truly live by your culture and also Makig them feel that they're partof the family, Yeah Yeah. So one of the things also oyeah yeah was also goingto say. This is a great time since the market, the supplyand demand dynamic,has shift an little bit over the de pre covid. So this is alsoa great time for us to top into additional talent, since Theye are morepeople available? Yes, exactly definitely you know it's reallyinteresting. I was just going to say so legacy DNDA's, the company that Istarted ten years ago and we've been virtual since day one. So in a lot of ways, it's been business asusual for us and as as a leader of a virtual company. It is it's verydifferent when, when you're leading a team that you can walk to their desk orwalk to their office, and so there's you know it's just it's differentleadership strategies and techniques that you use to be able to create thatculture or Cimi disseminate that culture through zoo meetings like this, youknow, right and in a virtual environment, to makepeople feel like they're, still part of a family and still connected and inspired and encourage to be partof the greater mission that's happening instead of desparat parts. Yes, absolutely yeah. So I see thoseleadership, skills being bdifferent leadership, skillsbeing required by all business leaders, not just healthcare, not justhealthcare, innevators absolutel Yeh. So what are the opportunities that youthink that are before us? So you mentioned that this is really fertileground for us to be able to collaborate with our customers. How are you doingthat? You know that's kind of one of thequestions that I hear. Often you know how is that being done,especially as we cannot be face to face? Yes, so the you know, the good uws isthat everyone, you know, expect you to do it a virtually right, so thetraditional status cal, just change the- and I keep saying this wis a great time,O to start a business or really wethink the business model, because stens ofurgency in many tha, the motiple layers of the barriers in many solution. Ifyou are cackling, the right province have been teared down significantly awe've seen a lot of situation or even with our own covid situation, tha thecontracting time the Liti has just...

...reduced, I dramatically, because peopleneed something, quick and urgent. So think about area like this, even thoughyour solution is, let's say stuck with a w particular issue: That's not n apriority talk to our customers. If GM can make a ventilator. Maybe yourengineer teams can build something for the customer that can be useallymeeding Foosso right, so we all have to have this kind of miser to be Nimbo andIjol to the market dynamic. So I think that you know if you reach out to customerssay I understand my somution is not on the top of Er priority, but you knowtell me a couple f things that that really bothers you right now. Maybe wecan build something for you in a short time and let you try the free of chargeright, so you offer something like this and you know healthcare professionals,administrators. They are tied up with the Costraine, the resources also. So thisis something that may make them think again again that everyone will respondnow. Everyone Willwell Wir saging up Righta, but you may get some andexpected customers the more importantly. Even Tha people don't sign up. Theywill remember, that's whet you offered at top Yeah Yeah Yep. Absolutely soJohn. Is We wrap up here? What are some of the lessons learned as being anentrepreneur and kind of going through this journey and that you would want toshare with our listeners yeah, I se never came up. This is resilenceis the most important thing and also I practice. This is a lot I talked tovarious othervisors mentors or people and look up to during this time justlearn how they cope the situation right, let's be honest after being at home formorthing two month, everyone's get capin Feberhomesick at this point, so it's important to force to keep a positive,entitude and also think about you know what what's the best way to coop this.What are the things not just for us but E, Folso, outeam members, and also thisis a great time to learn whether from some formal program from the bestpractice and because people simply have more time to share, and they want totalk to someone alsso right right right exactly well, I think that's greatwisdom. Thank you. So much for your time in sharing your insights with ourviewers and listeners today, how can folks get a hold of you if they want toreach out we reach out to you after the show yeah, I'm very active on linkty and theother social medias, so feel free to send me a message to my linking youknow you can find name John Qui last name. Is the Hui awesome all right?Thanks John Appreciate it? Thank you lear myraxsy. Thank you so much forlistening. I know you're busy working to bring your life changing innovationto market, and I vowue your time and...

...your attention to save kind and get thelatest episodes on your mobile device automatically subscribe to the show onyour favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thankyou for listening, and I appreciate everyone. WHO's been sharing. The showwith friends and colleagues, see you on the next episode of coiq.

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