Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

Purpose-Oriented Innovation & Internal Adoption In Large Health Networks w/Sandra Powell-Elliott


Many health innovators target large health systems as investors or buyers of their solutions. However, it can be challenging to know what innovations appeal to this customer group, whether they are open for collaboration, and who within the organization is most likely to buy or champion your innovation. 


As a start-up, what is the minimum viable product you need to have already developed to pitch to a large health system? How do we get in front of the right key decision-makers? How do large health organizations build a culture of innovation? On this episode, we’re joined by Hackensack Meridian Health VP of Life Science & Innovation, Sandra Powell-Elliott. We discuss how their health system finds strategic partnerships and collaborations, gains adoption, and how they take a diverse approach to innovation.

3 Things We Learned 

Networks are interested in strategic, goal-driven innovations

Innovation can take many different forms, but the field is now gravitating towards goal-oriented or purpose-oriented innovation. Innovation is now currently focused on improving metric-oriented outcomes, and putting a provider at the forefront of healthcare in a measurable way.  


Replacement cost is a minimum requirement for large health networks 

At the very minimum, health networks are looking to invest in innovations that have a low replacement cost. If that replacement cost is low, that can translate into a net neutral and then from there we can move toward a more profit-driven economic model. 


Target key decision-makers in large health systems

If an organization has an innovation department, those are the people to contact first. If they don’t have people who specifically deal with innovation, go to the CFO or COO, or the Chief Safety Officer. Talk to high-level executives who are making the decisions. Department directors or division directors may have the ability to highlight you but they aren’t the key decision-makers.


Guest Bio- 

Sandra Powell-Elliott is the Vice President of Life Sciences and Innovation at Hackensack Meridian Health. To get in touch with her, go to

Welcome to Coiq, and first of its kind video program about health innovators, early adoptors and influencers and their stories about writing the roller coaster of healthcare innovation. I'm your host, Dr Roxy, founder of Legacy DNA marketing group, and it's time to raise our COIQ. Welcome back to the show Coliq. Listen Up. On today's episode I have a special guest with us. We have Sandra Powell Elliott, who is the vice president of life sciences and innovation for Hackensack Meridian. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me have people here. Thank you. So the first thing that I'd like to do is to just kind of tell our audience a little bit about who you are and what you do, just to kind of set the foundation for our conversation today. So my role within a hay contact Meridian health is really to do two kind of core things. One is to develop an innovative culture inside the organization so we can take ideas from the front line and clinicians all the way, hopefully, to implementation and or commercialization. Secondly, is to bring innovative ideas from the outside and to try and transform how we take care of our patients and hopefully dramatically improve outcomes, reduce costs, improve safety, those kinds of things. So I get to play around both inside and outside the organization. So it's a lot of fun. That's wonderful. So how would you describe what's happening right now in healthcare innovation? Oh, it's crazy, you know, I think it's kind of interesting. I think that we've got a number of different kind of veins that are occurring. One is innovations all about technology, which it's not that everybody focuses in on it, mobile applications, digital health, and then we have research. You know what's going on as far as new treatments, new therapies and how we integrate that in and how we do that from reimbursement as well as, you know, just clinical practice. So I think you've got those two kind of cored things that have always been happening. But I think the other thing is beginning to happen is understanding that innovation can take a lot of different forms as long as it's focused in on improving an outcome, and it's a very metric oriented outcome. That I think people are starting to gravitate to more goal oriented, a purpose oriented innovation, very strategically focusing in on those innovations that are going to put an organization, hospital provider in the forefront of making being able to meet some of the goals, whether that's, you know, improving market share, reducing cost but doing it in a measurable, Measurable Way. I think it's been a lot of hodgepodge because I don't think that we really understood how to leverage technology and innovation in a different way other than just what I like to call the the iphone mode, which is it exists, let's just do it. Versus. What are we trying to accomplish and how do we innovate to accomplish that? So I think that one of the things that's so unique about what you guys are doing is that you have such a diversified approach to innovation. It's not a very you're focused, but it's not in one vein. So kind of talk about that a little bit. Yeah, we have kind of three veins. So, as I talked to a little bit about, you know, patient outcomes is a good example. So I'll use infections. Trying to minimize and reduce or even drive to zero the level of infections or risk of infection one of patients and in the hostile environment. So, if you think about it from the standpoint of digital how do we leverage information differently? How do we mobilize information differently to know and understand where certain patients may be at risk or ensuring the patients that create risk for others are located in a way and...

...treated in a way that we can do it faster, better and easier. Having said that, you know, on the digital side or data side, we also have research institute that's focused in on infectious disease and cancer. How do we innovate around understanding that infections are really driven from an immune system response, a lowering of an immune system response, so that patients are put at risk sometimes, like in cancer, on purpose. We are trying to treat a very difficult situation, but we're actually putting patients at risk. So how do we understand, how to know how that immune system responds and how can we mitigate the risk of infection in those particular scenarios? And then also, what are other folks doing, other companies? What? How are they innovating around infection and reducing infection? So there are companies that go from antibiotic discovery and development all the way to how do we use biology and bacteria, phages, for example, that into kind of a last ditch opportunity for patients who have antibiotic resistance, for example. So we're trying to do it from that way, but also even from an internal perspective. Our staff members know and understand the processes that everything every patient goes through in that patient experience. How do we minimize any risk from a safety perspective? So we're trying to drive it to a very core common strategic outcome, in this case just an example of reducing infection and infection risks, and really drive innovation from multiple angles in order to accommodate for that. So I think that kind of ties to, you know, a conversation that I have often when I'm meeting with folks like you that are leading gigantic healthcare or systems and organizations, where driving innovation for such a large, vehemous company is is really challenging. Right, you know, you're not you're not flexible generally or nimble. You're not fast. Yeah, you know. So there's just kind of those you know, and this is just kind of textbook stuff. Right about change in a big organization. So how how is how are you and hackensack merity and doing this differently, because it sounds like you guys are making some in rows that maybe some other systems aren't. Well, I think there's a couple of things that immediately come to mind. Is Our our chief executive is absolutely driving home the message and behaving and role modeling the message that innovation is in our DNA. What does it mean to be an innovative organization? How do we build culture around building innovation? And Yeah, yeah, opportunities, and so he roll models that all the way down throughout the organization. But then we have to as an organization, really high like what we're doing from an innovation perspective so that people see that it's actually occurring and it's actually occurring in a way that we're focused in on very specific objectives and other words, innovation isn't just soft it's not about let's build culture. Yeah, yeah, it's. How did it impact this patient? How did it this provider or physicians ability to take care of that patient differently after better and more economical? Or how do people, that employee to actually get through their day easier because their processes. We innovated around the processes that they function in so they can actually get done what they need to get done on a day to day basis. You have to absolutely markt of what you're doing and be consistent about it in a way that really continues to say, yeah, they really mean this, they're really driving towards driving and innovative culture. Yeah, yeah, it sounds like you guys are,... know, celebrating the small winds that, one the way, absolutely lead up to some of those more bigger a goals that you have in mind. Absolutely, and we one of the things that's kind of interesting is you begin to see, I like to say executive competition, because we have a number of hospitals. When we see ideas coming out organization, some hospitals really pushing a much more of an innovation or an innovation culture, an idea. It's kind of interesting because some of the other hospital exacts begin to say, Hey, wait a minute, I want to do that too, I want to be known for innovation. So you have to kind of it's like a hate to say it this way, but it's hard behavior. It's like right, right, right, create that momentum. You know, everybody and some exclusivity around it to some degree. Everybody really wants to join in and that's that's a great thing. That's a great competition. Drives behavior, right, guys, but in a good way. Right, right, exactly. Absolutely. So tell our listeners a little bit about this think tank that you guys are doing with the bears den. Yes, the bears den, I think if we were in Ireland, and probably be called the dragons layer or something. But everybody, we've got this process which we've tried to replicate a shark take like environment. Obviously we couldn't call it shark tank. So we had a group of guys who've got together, and literally guys who got together and decided that they bear was a nice, strong animal. We needed an animal. I could give you a bear hug if we like those ideas, and if not, then we can rip you to shreds, kind of thing. Yeah, obviously there was no female in the room at the time that this came up. But having said that, everybody's rallied around it. So let me go through kind of how we go through that process. We have a lot of companies, startups, early stage companies, as well as internal ideas that may require some funding or some sort of support to really get to either reproof of concept or potentially an implementation within an organization. So what we do is we have what we like to call prepitch sessions, so their sessions where we bring subject matter experts in. We actually had that company or that person pitched that idea to us, and then we make decisions on whether based on a metric, and if they get a certain score, then they go to the bears down and that bears done is where they to get decisions on yes, we're going to fund you, yes we're going to invest in you, or maybe just not quite yet. And that's usually what we end up saying a lot at our pre pish sessions, which is you're not quite ready yet, because they they need to work on better definition of the problem. For example, how does this help us? How does it tie to our strategic objectives, those kinds of things, and so we get through that process and it's kind of fun because we have these we have board members, we have executives, we have external venture capital companies, we may have strategic partners, like the big organizations that we buy things from or working with. Yes, UH HUH, they're all sitting around the table listening to the the pitches, but everybody has their own little bear paddle and everybody gets an equal vote of the voting members and they get to raise their paddles and that is like the the be all end all for everybody. As soon as they come through the door, they're looking for their bear, their bear paddle, and then they turn in their bear and you know, at the end of the session. But what's been interesting is out of you know, the number of companies that and ideas. I mean we're running at about a two percent investment rate, so, which isn't actually very bad. We would like it to be a little higher, but then when we start talking to other investment companies, they're saying, no, that's pretty good. So you're about you're about where you need to be. So but it's great because we really get to see how the...

...organization could potentially get much more engaged in these ideas and it's really super exciting. And what it does is it brings even more people. I mean it's it's really began began to kind of expand to other companies, large players who are bringing companies to us to potentially say are these companies you would invest in because you think that there's value in them right a health perspective, and so it's been kind of interesting, but we've had a lot of fun doing it. It sounds like a lot of fun and if you're going to do it, you might as well have fun along the way solutely. So give us an example of the company that, and you don't have to say the name if you don't want to, but the example of a company that you invested in. And then what's next? You know, how did you take them through the commercialization process, because you know, that's definitely a core component of this show, is talking about those business strategies and commercialization strategies that health innovators can adopt to be successful. So help us understand what's the process for what's next. So we've found a company that I it's funny because I want to go back to infection. We had a company that came very early stage and had the developed a device actually out of graduate school and then continue to develop that over time, and it was a ultra by it device that would enable us to for the most part, Zappa where I'm going to use your very common terms, Zappa Room in the ore for example, for any UN an obvious microbiome or micro organisms that may exist in that room. But not only just clean it and do it, it does it so rapidly. That's what changed the dynamic of it. So something that would take twenty minutes now takes ninety seconds, for example, and in the R it's room click turn over time. That is money, but it's also the ability of the physician to get in that room and do what they need to do. So the the operation moves much better and actually we're able to reduce any kind of organism whatsoever. Having said that, one of the best ways for so we made an investment in that company when they are actually now starting to come off the line and manufacture those devices at scale. It's been about sitting down with purchasing. For example, in our network they're bird they're purchasing across the network. Is sit down make sure that it's very clear early on how do you get through a process, particularly in healthcare where the sales cycle is so slow. How do you get through that process? What are the steps that you have to take? So we're sitting side by side to get those individuals very comfortable with what they need to do to prepare to commercialize outside of a friendly for sample. Right, right, obviously a friendly, but these are the kinds of steps that you need prepare for so that when you're going to actually sell and commercialize to others, you have a good sense as to exactly how you get into the right people, what the key cells points are, how you're going to differentiate yourself from the other potential companies that are competing in that space and get that contract, and then what's that contracting process? So it's a good example of how to kind of softly get into commercialization but drive to commercialization and a way that helps that organization outside of the the friendly network, if you will. Yeah, so are you only investing in innovations that you are adopting within your system, or you investing in the things that maybe you have no interest in internally but you're commercially commercializing externally? The you know, it's interesting because we've tested this concept a little bit and we've had companies that would be...

...quick investments with returns, but they didn't necessarily have strategic advantage for us. And Yeah, you've actually chose to pass on those and every once in a while, because it seems too good to be true. You just want to push it in front of the bears down, for example, just to make sure they still want to go in that direction. And it has. It's been a fail safe so far that every single company that we've invested in we fully see as being strict jigally advantageous to the network. Not Be able to implement it in our network at this moment because of development stage, YEP, or where our market is compared to others, but we know it's going to be something that we integrate into our network. That's not to say that we don't have organizations that we decide not to invest in that we still don't push towards potentially becoming a vendor. Maybe a good example maybe we have a lot of digital health coming in. We're not going to continue to invest in a ton of disual health, but we might want to see it as a vendor. We might see that it fits a need. But it is a different kind of investment strategy for us. It's a IT'S A it's we want to balance it out with other types of investments that we're making as well. So so you may get a know we want invest but yes, we will become a vendor answer and, quite honestly, for a lot of organizations that we work with that's just as evirant. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, definitely gaining adoption. So let's kind of seguling into that. Gaining adoption is one of the biggest challenges that health innovators don't have right so, once they get the funding and they kind of map out their strategy and you know they're going to market, how would they gaining adoption amongst providers and patients if that's, you know, part of their target market? So help our listeners understand you know what, or maybe some of the things that you guys are doing different to increase or fuel adoption internally that we might not be aware of. I think you know, there are a couple things that we do that I think maybe it's part of our nature, of our culture, but it were very collaborative in nature. So we look for people who are willing and open to being a collaborator. Now, that has a lot of different meanings to a lot of different people, but what we're looking for, particularly in some of the companies that we bring in, our companies that are willing to say, okay, we can be flexible enough to work with you, not necessarily customize everything directly to us, but to work with us and help us get the get the solution to work the way we know it should work. Yep, and help them benefit from that learning. So, in other words, saying just because you think it should be done this way and implemented this way, we're telling you that's not going to work, or at least it may not work in our organization and there's some tweaks that we think we need to do here that you probably won't face elsewhere. But usually we always have an eye towards scalability and those kinds of things, which is critical thing. You cannot get into customizing, particularly as a younger, earlier emerging company, and to customizing everything. So you want a partner and a collaborator who knows and understands that scaling and scaling wide and fast are critical issues as they're sitting down to work and try and collaborate with you. But yeah, going to collaborate and we that's, I think, is a but you have to mean it, you can't just say it. You got to put people on both sides of the equation, both the company and the the potential client. A network, for example. You got to make sure that you're putting the resources there that says yes, we are going to collaborate and they push towards a solution that works for both sides. And I can't say enough on how...

...much of importance there is on that partnership and a good fit mindset, fit with with both entities. If you don't feel like you've got that connection, you just it's it's a sign. You just know that it's the right organization to work with. Yeah, so you know, this is a this is a topic that we talked a lot about on the show and you know, there's different perceptions on what's kind of like the minimum that a emergent startup needs to have to pitch someone like yourself. You know, some think that they have to have all the answers and right, and and, and some people just don't have enough. Right. It's really what's that from your point of view? What's that sweet spot? What are like the minimum requirements you're looking for? And then what are those things like? It's okay if you don't have answers to this, because we can adject us that together. Yeah, and I think it one of the and I'm going to start kind of backwards a little bit. I think the most important thing is you cannot come off knowing all the answers to the questions or yes, we can fix that, that's not a problem. You have to be open to really trying to understand what those issues are. But I think that it is okay to say, you know, our minimal Bible product is a. We think a, plus B, plus C can get us to day, but we want your input on that. You've got to be able to have that core. The value proposition is that that a or that initial has to have at a minimal a minimal the ability to have a very low replacement cost or at least a the cost of switching from one to another. That translates into a net neutral. If you demonstrate a net neutral, it's a game, it's you're going to stop and it's probably the easiest way to our articulate kind of what that that minimal component is. But if you've got a net neutral on on a cost side and implementation side and you can demonstrate an outcome that's different, your golden then you can start working towards how do I change the the economic model to get it away from net neutral. So so you kind of touched on something around outcomes and being able to demonstrate. So how much proof does an innovator need versus? I don't have any proof yet. I've got some theories and I want to develop that proof of concept with an organization like you. Well, I mean there's kind of two different questions and many respects. If you're willing to work with us, yeah, a proof of concept and we think that you have a good idea and we can see that there are some validity, scientific validity or business validity to the idea, then we're willing to work with you, as long as we feel that the impact is great enough. Yeah, and that can be even just from a clinical outcome or can be from a financial outcome or both, but it's it's to me that's kind of the critical core. But I don't think that a lot of organizations, and we still struggle, depending on who we bring into, to sit down and take a look at what's going on. There's still such an aversion to not having all the answers or thought for everything, and men's why I'm making sure we talk about this so I listeners here it's over and over again. I mean at the end of the day, we are a risk aversive organization by nature. We don't want to kill people, we don't want to create, you know, more harm than we and just I know it sounds very, very simplistic and is very obvious, but that has been embedded in everything we... Minimize, minimize, minimize risk as much as you can and because of that you've got this well, you should know all the answers to this and and and to my questions, and it's okay to say you don't and you'll do some further evaluation or maybe you can help me answer that question. I don't know how to go about answering that question. Can we talk further? But again, it depends on your stage, where you are in the development and that's going to be a different, different answer depending on kind of the stage the company. Hmmmmm. So do you have you ever, have you guys ever done any type of CO creation with patients or with providers, and, if so, to give us some examples of what that might look like for you all? We have. It's interesting because we had a physician actually brring to us one of his patients who developed a solution. He has actually gone through a number of kidney transplants. Interesting enough, has been on day, on and off of dialysis a couple of times. And, for those who may not be aware, when you go on dialysis, you are it is they're literally taking all your fluids out and replacing them. It is is an extremely it's a difficult situation because you get so cold. Now you can't just wear tons of clothing because you have all these little ports that people, you know, have to hook you up to to get, you know, your bodily fluids out. Yeah, yeah, so some people have to de Robe. I mean that some of them are in the arms. You know, you have cancer patients who have chemotherapy and they've got different locations for where that occurs. Bottom line is, this guy came up with this, I like to call it kind of like an under armor type garment that was really easy for patients to Zip, AU ZIP and put certain kinds of gauze in so that if, you know, the patient had a leak after they left at the gauze would pick it up. Very interesting. Is Enough there that we were able to Patentis who were actually in the process of Manufactur and giving them to some of our transplant patients to get some feedback before we finalize the design and this is this patience developed solution and you know, he'll get the vast majority of any revenue we get from it, which is totally good, you know, for us, because it actually helps our patient population know that we do care and we want to make it an easier process for them to get care and treatment with us. And if they come up with a good idea, we want to hear it and well, you know, if we can all benefit from it, then that's great. But bottom line is it's a good example of a patient and a physician actually within our network, saying you, guys, got to take a look at this. This is pretty cool. He's been doing it, it looks great, it's it makes them feel good. Take a look and see what you think. And it's been a it's been a great journey. He's loving love and life. He's like the star patient right now, which I bet so are you on, which that is an incredible story. I love to hear that. Are you all you kind of touched on this a little bit. Are you all involving other patients in that process to see that, you know, we know that this is a problem and we you know, this patient has a solution for that. And involving other patients in that not necessarily ideation because this patients already done that. But the evaluation, the design and making sure that it is something that's going to be valuable for multiple patients, not just a small segment. Absolutely so. The the shirts that we're getting design right now are going to be given to our patients for period of time. So we get, you know, with me questionnaires, will get answers from them. We'll sit down with them and watch them, as long as they're comfortable with that,... them how they use the the shirt, how they like it, how they wear it. You know, it's an interesting you know, we don't want to be in the shirt business, but we want to make it's not our core but we want to make sure that whatever we end up finalizing and working with someone to kind of get it to market really is going to work for the vast majority of patients. And if we can make some modifications, you know we'll make those modification. But getting patients engaged in that process and codeveloping with them is so, so exciting. It's so cool. We haven't last doing it. Yeah, I see some organizations, you know, doing some of that. Most that are thinking about cocreation are involving patients in the coddesign, like you just described. As a small segment that some people are doing it, like you all, and what I'm starting to see a little bit is also involving them in the launched space afterwards, rights, because you're it's inherent that you're building Raven fans earlier doctors, right, and so having them being part of the CO launch process seems to be one of the ways that organizations are kind of rising above the noise. Yeah, and it really, you know, it really speaks to the stories. Yeah, gives that the stories of face and it makes it much more real for everybody and we absolutely love it because it makes us happy to see them happy and enjoying themselves, and regardless of what type of product or service it is. So and it really just it connects us in a different way to our patient. Yeah, so you kind of touched on this a little bit, but I want to revisit the conversation and see if we tease out anything else. You know, a lot of our listeners are health innovators who are in the trenches today and they are trying to, you sell their solutions to folks like you. So what are some of the strategies that you recommend that they just make sure that they have as part of their commercialization when they're trying to sell to folks like you? Yeah, I think if you're really an early start up, I think what's helpful for us, or you don't have much adoption at all, is to really say, I really, really like to get your input on this. This is something that we think is valuable and we really want to see what's the value proposition. And it creates more of a go back to the word collaborative, but it you're really leveraging a desire on our part as health providers. We like to help people and it's an interesting strategy but it works. And when you can get that time with people who say I'm happy to help out, you're going to get much further. So if they see value, they're going to figure out, how do I get this integrated into the network? How do I get this integrated into an evaluation process, whatever that organization processes? The open to not selling right out of the gate but saying here's the solution, here's the problem. I'm trying to solve. What are we missing here? Here's the business model. How does that fit with you? So those are the kinds of things that you need to understand. How what's the strategy to implement something like this? What do we need to be thinking about? I think the critical thing, in addition, is making sure that you true we understand that your solution meets their needs, whoever you're talking to. So try and make sure do your homework, make sure you truly understand the needs that an organization has. There's a lot of different ways that you can do that. I think looking at what they're touting, they're trying to doubt, for example, and their annual reports. So, for example, if we want to be, you know, US News and World Report Number One hospital health network, what are those key things that drive that organization? Is it infection rates, reducing mortality, minimizing the ability or...

...minimizing difficulty and transitioning a patient from an acute care to subacute care? Those kinds of things, yeah, will understand the more you pay attention to what a homework. Yeah, make sure that your solution targets that in some way, shape or form or potentially facilitates their ability to meet those needs or to solve those problems. Every product, every organization has different problems, but we also have all the same problems. So make sure that you clearly understand the impact of that problem for that organization and how your solution potentially translates and solving that problem. So, for example, reducing cost if you can bring a product to me, into our organization that you're saying reduce the cost of care, you've got to be able to understand that. I don't care about reducing the cost of care to the insurance company. I do care about how do we reduce the cost of care to the hospital or reduce the cost of a cope that a patient may have to pay if they've got high deductibles in our marketplace. So make sure that you know reducing cost of care, for example, or improving outcomes is truly something that you can define specifically. That is important to that that potential clients. So improving outcomes to me as a health provider may be very different than improving outcomes to a physician and a is, you know, in a solo practice for example, or an insurance company or an HMO for example. So make sure you truly understand those definitions and how they impact, you know, how your product may impact those. Yeah, I think the language is really important and, like you said, you know it's heart. It's really hard to find and healthcare organization that's not looking to lower cost and improve outcomes and and you know, and so if you're messaging strategy, is that generic in nature? It's that, you know, there's very little wow factor of a kind of digging into the layers of that and and differentiating yourself from all the other people that are saying yet and we can improve outcomes and lower cost to exactly and leverage white papers and references. I mean, if you've got a client, even an early client, what you've done, be very clear with what you've done with them, who those people are and what their role was, and even, you know, quotes from them in a white paper in a way that you could actually reach out. I could reach out and say, okay, Neil, how did this go? I mean, here's what I'm reading, because it is those are critical components and in this industry we all do that. We're all calling up, you know, our buddies at different locations and saying, here's what I heard. Can you tell me the story as well. I want to hear the story from your perspective. Yeah, and but you' got to be brutally honest. You've got to be as transparent and authentic and everything you do, because it will come back to my chip. Careful. Yeah, so you kind of touched on who a little bit. So is there a single path to success when you think about the people write the entry point? Do I need to make sure I'm in front of the CEO and do I need to make sure I'm in front of you right, in charge of innovation for the system? Can I go through the provider department head, you know, is or is there no right or wrong, it's just it varies every single time. I think it buries a lot. In all honesty, I think in organizations like ours, where you've got an innovation group, it's always a good place to start because they at least have a good sense as to who the right people might be in their organization to get you in front up. So so I highly suggest that. Though I will tell you that we get in and dated. So sometimes you have to be patient and just you know, also,...

I don't mind pests just to remind me that you're still out there, but thank you. Thank personal like just forgot, but I think that usually it's either your CFO, your chief operating officer, and, depending on the side of the organization, I would highly recommend not going to the CEO because they're just going to give it to do other folks as well, and or a chief safety officer. Are Critical areas to really go to if you don't have an innovation or innovation. But usually, you know, you've got to get in a high level executive WHO's making decisions. Department directors, for example, or division directors. They may have the ability to highlight you, but they are so far down and decisionmaking for a lot of organizations anymore that they're they're not as easy to you'll you can reach out to them, but they're still not the key decisionmakers. They can make a recommendation, but you've got to get their bosses and their bosses bosses involved. Yeah, yeah, okay, good. So how important is storytelling? It is absolutely probably the most critical thing, and we've learned this both internally and externally. But I think one of the things is kind of kept it and sptualize that I don't value anything that I don't understand is. So if I can't understand what problem you're trying to solve and how your solution works to solve it, I'm not going to say Oh, that's the best thing since like bread kind of thing. So you've got you've got to be able to tell that story and a lot of times it's about, you know, understanding enough what's going on today and saying, here's what happens today, here's what I see happening tomorrow if you use my product or solution and how that changes. So it's the beginning, middle and end. It's the story. We're all wired for stories. We have so many different companies come to us. We have one individual or within the organization who came up with an idea of a trauma attack, very trauma tech for, you know, fifteen plush years. There was a problem that his that the positions in the nursing staff were having with a particular advice, was no longer going to be manufactured and it was going to cause some problems. And the reason it was going to cause problems is it was going to delay the amount of time that blood, for example, could get back into the patient. And when you're a trauma patient you have. You know, bloot force trauma, you're probably bleeding inside. They had systems in place in the past where they could take some of that fluid and pump it right back into the individual. What that does is help that individual stay alive and their tissue stay alive while you're trying to get the right blood. Now, because of a device that change, the patients have to wait, the physicians have to wait, they can't put that blood back in. They have to get whole blood, which is extremely costly and it also takes time to match, you know, and Cross match the blood, and you don't know if patients have had blood there. Is that kind of thing right or short? Is that this idea? The team, a trauma surgeon and nurse and the developer came together and they blew us away because they told us about Jimmy, the patient who came in and how his life was change and using this device, they did that whole shark tank level. Yeah, worry that you're like, Oh my God, you know, this is the I get this, I totally get this. Yeah, and because we could get it, we could begin to understand how we could take this and run with it. We have tons of companies that can't even get that story get a story cross and we,...

...yeah, scratching their heads because they don't know what you what's your product, what you're Solf, what you're trying to problem you're trying to solve and how is my life going to be different? Yeah, can't tell that story. You're dead in the water because great just don't understand it enough and they don't have time to think about it and, you know, really try to understand you got to make it super simple. Just tell the story well, and this guys not only well as a result of this. What I like about the example that you just gave, this Jimmy Story, is that it's a it's a personal story, right, it's authentic, and I imagine, without having heard the story, that it is an emotional story, very emotion right. And so we are, you know, we are inspired and motivated by emotional story. Absolutely, and I think sometimes health innovators, especially if they're the technologist, they might think very rationally and very logical and that rational, logical story is not stirring my heart. That's right. There's a reason sex sells, right. It's it's intrinsic, it's motivational, it's emotional, it's it hooks you differently and we you know it's sad, but we do have a lot of people that are very technology, very logical. They can't tell this story. You know, that's okay, we have somebody else they can. Right, right, exactly, totally good. But if you can tell that story, you get, you win the hearts and the minds of the people that you're trying to to to sell your product or solution. Yeah, so we touched on a bunch of different things today. The last question I have for you is, knowing that our listeners are either hospital systems like yourself that are trying to innovate and pushing against the forces against them, or their health and a vader's external two systems that are trying to sell what is, what advice do you have for them? Persistent pays off. It is very this just like other industries, but I think in the healthcare right now, because there's so much change going on and people are trying to anticipate what's coming down the Pike, that people lose focus very quickly. So you have to be persistent. Your persistent and developing what you're trying to develop and trying to go a guess the grain sometimes and culture I face. You know, throughout my years I face a lot of cultural barriers and sometimes you just say, okay, got to be patient and I got to figure out another way. You always got to be persistent and think I've got to solve this, and you know, usually that persistence will pay off, either if it's finding the right person to talk to you in our organization, whether it's getting that product or idea for further fleshed out if you're internally within organization, or getting an organization to put money behind an idea that you think is going to dramatically improve patient patient lives or provider lives, for example. So, but persistent is persistence truly does pay off. And do your homework. Always do your homework. Your homework on then the organization. If you know who's going to be in the room, do your homework on who's in the room. Make sure you understand what you're trying to do and how you actually are positioning yourself better. And there's only one way to do that and that's through homework. Yeah, no way getting around it, right will Sandra, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us today. I certainly appreciate it. What is the best way for people to get a hold of you if they want to connect with you later? Best way is through my email, Sandra dot Elliott at meridium health dot org. Any emails the best way to reach me.

Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. What's the difference between launching and commercializing a healthcare in avation? Many people will launch a new product, few will commercialize it. To learn the difference between launch and commercialization and to watch past episodes of the show, head to our video show page at Dr Roxycom. Thanks so much for watching and listening to the show. You can subscribe to the latest episodes on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcasts and spotify, or subscribe to the video episodes on our youtube channel. No matter the platform, just search coiq with Dr Roxy. Until next time, LET'S RAISE OUR COIQ.

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