Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 1 year ago

Pitching investors during the pandemic and adapting to new market conditions w/ Ana Gomez del Campo

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

When you’re a healthcare innovations startup poised to take that next step, nothing can throw you more of a curveball than a global pandemic.

Right now, the market has slowed and is proceeding with caution, but ‘slow’ doesn’t mean ‘stop.’

Funding may be hard, but it’s not impossible - and there are actions every company can take that will help keep them relevant and active in the industry.

In today’s episode, Surefhir Co-Founder and CEO, Ana Gomez del Campo gets candid with our listeners as she recounts how her company has weathered the impact of the go-stop-crawl process of the last few months.

Ana shares her thoughts on being open to collaboration, willing to pivot, why it’s so important to know who you’re targeting when going to market.

 

Here are the show highlights:

  • When crises slow an innovation’s forward trajectory, these actions can keep you relevant and active in your industry (4:03)
  • A strong argument for collaboration and customer discovery (9:19)
  • Why funding may be difficult, but certainly not impossible, during a pandemic (14:50)
  • A quick dive into the psychology around why Angel Investors invest (17:41)
  • How a partial pivot to innovation can yield surprising results (19:09)
  • Why right now might be the time to open discussion about how your innovation may work for other potential target markets (22:03)
  • How getting “lost in the fog” can sabotage your success (23:45)
  • When listening to stakeholder advice produces that ah-ha moment (26:01)
  • Recognizing the different value propositions between patient, provider, and those who write the checks are critical to innovation success (31:18)

Guest Bio

Ana Gomez del Campo is CEO and Co-Founder of Surefhir, a healthcare digital solution that aims to boost patient satisfaction and discharge efficiency with tools that keep patients, loved ones, and care teams all on the same page and up-to-date on a patient’s care journey.

A recipient of several entrepreneurial and neuroscience grants and prizes, Ana graduated from the Georgia Institute of Technology with her BS in Biomedical and Medical Engineering.

If you want to reach out to Ana, she can be reached via email at ana@surefhir.co, on LinkedIn at Ana Gomez del Campo, or for more information about the Surefhir solution, visit their website at surefhir.co

Welcome to Coiq, where you learn howhealth innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy,founder of legacy, DNA and International Beth selling author ofhow health innovators to maximize market success through handedconversations with health innovators earlier doctors and influencers you'lllearn how to bring your innovation from idea to start up to market domination,and now, let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq. Welcome back to Ouyqlisteners. On today's episode, I Have Anna Gel Gomez Delcampo with me. She isthe CEO and Co founder of Sherfire. Welcome to the show Anna thanks forhaving me Dor roxty. So I always like to start off with you, given ourlisteners and our viewers, some insights about your background and whatinnovation you've been working on sounds good. So I'm a biomedicalengineer by training and I kind of fell into digital health serindipitously,but my area of interest is in how we used human center design to optimizeprocesses in health care and make life safer and easier for patients andproviders. So the the innovation we're working onnow is called the patient journey map. Ourbasic thesis is that, because eamars have a billing centric view of care, itmakes it really difficult for providers to put together the story ofTho's taking care of the patient. What did they do and when did they do it,and that leads to situations where they're forced to make simplifyingassumptions and say you know, I'm sure somebody else took care of that. I'msure pomonary medicine is manging Te Antibiotics, I'm sure somebody elsealready started the discharge process, I'm sure somebody else. You know youkind of you kind of get the picture, there's very little. Transpict lots ofthere's lots of cooks in the kitchen, every little transparency across all ofthose players, and so or our answer to that is to say. Let's take the billingcentric view wot care and put in an Emr overlay that transforms tat, building,centric view of care into acclinition centric or a journey centric view ofcare. So every event everying every note every order every medication administration getsorganized in the context of who did it. So if I'm coming, I'M A hospitalwithI'm coming on service, I want to know where, to the last person my lole leavethings. I can look at the hospital medicine timeline and et see exactlywhat are the last things that happen, or I can look at the pumonary medicineor an aprology timeline and figure out. Okay. Well, what problems are theconsultants managing or what problems are the consultants not managing,because they think somebody else is supposed to be finiting that rightright?...

So how did you even come across thisproblem that needed to be solved? Great question, so I mentioned I kindof fell into digital health sarindipitously. While I was still astudent at Georgia tech, I had the chance to collaborate with H, SOM gratyhelt systems, top leaders and inframatics, and the the purpose was towar work together with them to build some proof of concept, applications tosolve clinical workflow issues, and so that's where I first encountered theproblem of it's really difficult to actually know who's taken care of apatient at any given point in time- and you know I've heard I told thet topeople outside of health care and they're like no. How could a hospitalnot knose taking care of their patience, and I'm like yes, that? Can nobody wants you to know thatbut it'no wantto know, but but it's happening, and so that was kind of thethat that problem really intrigued me because I was like how could we notknow something so basic? How is there as they're, not an existing processormechanism? That's robost enough to track changes and responsibility, andas th the more and more I looked into that problem realized. You know the thethe transition to team based and shift based. Healthcare hasn't really beenaddressed with clinical workflow tools. We have all these new complexities, butthe the technology hasn't really kept up with them m. So where are you in the innovationprocess now so we've got bak to or before covidbefore, yeah befor Covid, things were. Things were awesome. We we had just hitched a big Atlantahealth system, doing a pilot. We said our pitch them was harwork. We have this concept. It'scalled the patient journey map hereare some of the use cases. We really thinkit's going to help W T patient safety in theroput we're looking forastrategic development partner, because this is sufficiently sophisticated,that we can't build it in a vacuum, we're looking for a development partnerand that the executive we were pitching to is one level below the the systems.Teo said that's great, as long as my the clinical leaders who report to melike and operations leaders who report to me like it will move well moveforward, and so then we represented to the clinical leaders and the operationsleaders and there was consensus and they said okay, this. This is great.The only thing we have to figure out now is which hospital in thes systemare we going to deploy that, and this was about two or three weeks before theLockdon it. So it's the trouble with working with the key clinical andoperations leaders is that when a Ocan demicits, the people who are hardestedare the critical andoperation bleaders.

So we're in a situation right now,whe're, you know we don't. We don't think we're we're dead in the waterwe're on pase, but our cha, our executive, sponsor even his directpuports, can't get meetings with him right right right and it's as so we'relike. Okay, once his direct reports, who we still have a very goodrelationship with, can get meeting with him, Thenw O. No, that things arestrarting to get back to normal. But since then it you know it's it's givenus some time to to reflect on okay. What are our value propositions? What'sour business model? Do they? Are they still going to make sense in thisenvironment? And what can we do to to make the sale cycle shorter? You knowsafety and Efviciency is great and it's definitely still important postcovid,but is there something we can do where it's immediately going to help helpgenerate revenue or capture more reimversement, yeah yeah? So you know what was that process like over thelast few weeks wrestling with those differentscenarios, especially, I imagine that you're also not face to face with yourteam, so you're kind of working through your pivot strategy. Virtually exactlyso I mean the short answer: Is Depression, depression and anxiety, anDOTINGB tabout, some oftheinterestingconversation that we've had with the stake holders that we have been able toget on the phone and right now we're trying to get a comrade. A combinationof you know: freshtak holders, people who don't know us who aren't as who maybe aren't going to be as biased by thefact that they like us, yeah to to tell us about what their priorities looklike now. So I hade a conversation with it. Hospital chief vibrating answer Iin Connecticut- and I was asking who like how have your priorities changednow verses, Pre Covid, and he said you know it's interesting. We haven'ttalked about clades or claimzes in like six weeks. You know. All of these kindof publicly reported outcomes are just not a priority anymore. Yeah.Interestingly, therutput has leap frogged to the top of the PRIORTY list.Almost above everybody asked IMS like that's kind of weird, isn't yourhospital hale empty, and he said yes but upeople used to be complacent aboutletting the patients day. You know an extra two hours four hours a day in thehospital, but now it's not acceptable. Tol N patient in the hospital, lestthey catch Covid, because thright here for an extra. You know an extra fifteenminutes, yeah it's too risky, it's too Riski and then th th. So there's thesafety in risk management aspect. The other aspect is that pretty mucheverybody has ar an artificially limited bedi capacity, because roomsare being separated, Ando or unit to...

...ring separat into Covin and postcode.So you can you create an extra bottle neck the example he gave us. I think Ihave eight patients boarding in my ed right now, even though my hospitalshave to enty, because we don't have enough non Covit. U Hmm, and so, eventhough you know throuput is not as pre covid through put was not in everyhospital problem, necessarily because Tseme hospials have problems gettingheads and beds, but now because it's a it's a risk issue and because there'sartificially fewer beds, it's yeah it's becoming more more of a priority andthe other. The other thing that broht brought up was. We need to find a waythat we establish public trust and patient trust, otherwise nobody's goingto darken our doorstep yeah and we're not going to be able to recover thefrom the Reviin the losses. So that was just kind of one of the a coupleinteresting tipets that we re that we're trimming on. So it seems like ano brainer, but I think it's worth reinforcing for our viewers andlisteners that your your pivot strategy process started with customer discoveryright going back and saying hey. How are your priorities different yeah,what' ACTA? What is actually getting budget right now? Yeah? So you didn'tjust you, know, kind of congregate and come together with your team withinyour organization, but the your natural inclination was to include prospects orcustomers in that discovery process right right. So, in an in thisdiscovery process we actually and another physician whos he's been aroundat the children's hospital for a long time marry involental. He said you knowI can see from what you're doing that it would make my life a lot easier, butI've rarly seen the hospital spend money on making my life easier. I haveseen the hospital spend. Foney, spend a lot of money and more money every yearon improving the patient experience. So even if what you're doing is going tomake my life easier, I would frame it in as patient experience first andprovider efficiency. Second, because provider efficiency is kind of squushyand doesn't necessarily show up on a balance sheet, but patient experiencesis less squishy yeah, and so how valuable is that nofor? It's been really value to start to lookat okay. You know, hospitals are like impatien stays like a black box forproviders, but also for families. You know if you'R, especially now when youcan't go visit a LO. You know, and even you know, pree Covid, familymembers. If you had a patient in the hospital, your loved t, UN in thehospital you felt like you had to be there, twenty four seven, otherwiseyou're not going to have a clue what's going on, and not only that if you'rethere, a nurses and doctors are going...

...to ask you hey, what's going on thispatient's care because, as we've already discussed, they don't have awhole lot of itsibility into what other charateen members are doing. Sure Right.This is Thom NHIMG. Actually, my two CO frenders have experienced fairlyrecently with Lod ones by my Co. fenderers had his motherinlaw and I seeyou for a while and we we started thinking about well, you know whatwould it be like if you could, as a loved one, have transparency intoanhand stay updated on the key events in care, and now, like ups tracking,like is mom in the Ito you as she been discharged? Is She has she beenscheduled to go into the hour? Is She in Te Pack you nowhere? Where is momand Yeah Hiis? What is being done to her? And so that's that's something thatwe're that we're looking at right. Now, as it happens, our CTO already hadpreviously built the architecture that would make itpossible for a loved one, to open a secure connection for a pationto open up secure connections to love ones, to see updates on their care m.The main challenge right now that we're looking at is you know, patient portals, aren't newand, and the idea of updating families isn't. Is it new yeah? You know epic,my Chart Bedside has has a future where you can share a pin with what one, sothey can get updates on things like your test results and stuff like thatyeah. But when you, when you actually dig deep and look at you know, thesethings have apreviews on on the itune store on ggole playing it adoptionadoption is, is really low and patience. It's not user friendly, it's buggy andwere thinking hey. You know, even though, that the elephants in the roomhave a solution to this or have at least check the box for a solution.Maybe it's still. Maybe it's still worth putting something out there, because when I think of consumercentric health care, I don't think of the legacy players. I don't think that them as leaders inbeing consumer centric when they can't even really be a clinish encentricright right. You know, Theyai, they struggle makingthings user fentlyfor highly educated people, you know. Are they really theright people to make something user friendly for a lay person? Wyo, maybehave a third brade reading level yeah or you know who is who was really tiredand sleep deprived and just went through major operation so that we haven't come to it to we're still inthe process of working at the competitive wandscape and trying to seeyou whal do we do? We have really have an unfair advantage here with our whenwe're looking at our expertisein, an humans, ent, er, design andineroperability or is this? Is this going to be thekind of thing where we go to a health...

...en system and say well, Epigardi doesthis? Do we really want to be in the position of saying? Well, we do itbetter. No right that kind of the but generally doesn't go, doesn't doesn'tgo over well, not when the health system is payingall that money to epic. They just said that they're going to wait until epicadds it to their platform or improves it. I hear that you know consistently,so so, let's talk about how Covid has impacted your company financially andin some of your exciting new developments yeah. So when, when coid hit, when we got when Iprobably got put on Pas, we just said Dodn't know what we'RE GOING TO FREEZEOUR EXPENSES: We're not going to run payroll until weknow like what what's going to happen or until we get some kind of new new business prospects or somethingsigned. So we just wanted kind of a little bit more clarity, but we decided to say you know what theheck, let's try to. Let's try to raise heme capital because we do have. We dohave some exciting things in the pipeane they haven't, they haven't come to forition yet, andso we pitched to a local Angel Group, and yesterday we've found I out that Tere's there's like a screening process and you do an initial pitch and thenyou're invited to present in front of like the general member meeting andthen at the general member meeting angels who are interested. They raisetheir hands and they SAYIG. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm going to put in You, knowtwenty Fivek and these ten of my buddies are Gon, also going to put inTwenty Five K or whatever, whatever it ends up being a former astendic kid,but it was. It was interesting because we we didn't know what to expect really asfar as investor sentiment, because there's been you know, if you had, ifthey had money in the stock market, they don't have it anymore righright. So so we were saying hey. You know we'regoing to do this. Conservative Rais, our expenseves are going to stayconservative for the next couple of years. We're going to try to use thisjustice little bit of money to get to cashlo positive with this handfulhandful of customers and the response that we got was you know, healthcare healthcare isdoing a reset right now. Are you going to miss that on that opportunity? Ifyou don't raise more money, we think you should be raising more money andwrothining like well. If you really want to throw it at is, but at the same timewe're kind ofoptomiing around you know, we don't want to spend too much time if we're.If we have a more ambitious ask, you know, WWe get be struggling toget that last fiftyzen, dollar or sure, and- and you know, we're still we're still aprerevenue we're going to take ahead on our valuation from that. Even if we'reonly like two months away from potential potentially having revenues,Soer Yeah, you Kno, let's raise a little bit money now, so we get somebreathing room and have the freedom to...

...bend on on unmarketing and and product development,but M we're still kind of in a kick Click Han down the road. Until there's,you know fairer weather, hey it's Dr Roxy, herewith a twit break from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what movesyou need to make to survive and thrive in the new codid economy? I want everyhealth innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivid Strategi,which is why I created the covid proof, your business to the kid. The pipot kitis a step by step framework that helps you find your best divid strategy. Itwalks you through six categories. You need to examine for a three hundred andsixty degree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses.As you make your way through this comprehensive kid, you'll be armed withthe tools, tips and strategies you need to make sure you can piv it with speedwithout missing out on critical details and opportunities, learn more at legacy.Tythan DNACOM BACKLA kid. So congratulations, that's very, veryexciting, and I speak to health innovators every week and differentphases of the innovation process. I'm still raising money and I've not talkedto one person. That's pitched! Anyone in the last sixty days yeah, and so I think that it's very inspiringand in very encouraging you know and as you and I were talking earlier, youknow there's so much uncertainty with the market in the perception, and I think thatit's happening is that you know fundings dried up and you know peoplecan't raise money right now and especially angels likeritmaybe P firms.But you know not an angel like that's just not happening, and you know you'rea testament to like not not really like it is happening yeah. So it's funnyI'll. Just sa n one of my mentors who's in angel, he gave us some one of ourfirst checks. He said you know during recessions, yeah you might takea hit on valuation and maybe there's a little bit less equitity out there, butif you're, an angel investor and you're, wealthy and retired. What else are yougoing to do with your time? Rightright G GTTKID of an NRESTINGoutint like e, like I need more people like you in my life, exactly exactly? Oh yes, so it's very very exciting andyou know I'm not an investor but is IAM more of. Like a you know, a futurist, I'm always forward. Looking and likeyou- and I were talking about before the amount of acceptance and adoption in digitalhealth, like we've leap, frog, five years worth of that growth curve in thelast sixty days, and I don't think...

...we're going back, we might receide alittle bit, but if I was an investor, I would be banking on that now I wouldbe getting in because it is more promising. The outlook is morepromising than everbody or for this, for this sector and healthcare yeah. I completely, I completely agree andone of the things that we're doing to try to capitalize on that faster isthink outside the box about who are potential partners Mae and as ithappens, because what we're doing is is basically like a custom healthinformation exchange with datavisualization in t analeticslayered. On Top, there are people thereare other people who maybe needthe same Datat, that's working on getting access to for different reasons:Yeah we're looking at we're in conversations with a bigcompany in the health care and a litic space that is still getting data fromits customers by getting flat files pushed to them. YEA, ver, Nineen,eights way of doing things, and we were immediately interested whenthey told us hey. We've talked to Intersystems, we've talked to Redox,we've talked to all the established players and no one seems to have aright, sized or or custom custom solution to this. Everyone either wantsto push us something. That's that's really one size fits all and doesn'tmake sense, or they want to charge us an arm in a leg to solve its problem.As we done deeper, we discovered you know the data that they're interestedin pulling there's like eighty percent overlap between the data they need andthe data. We need mthere's an opportunity here for us to license thisoportion of our technology to them and potentially get inplemented in six hundred hospitals in one foul troop,and then you know, even though it's not all of our technology in thosehospitals. If we wanted to sell them and they said well, what does theimplementation look like, wel well and we'll say? Well, we've alreadyimplemented the hardest part, because we already had the you know the dataexchange framework ready. It's just flipping a switch to put this other adon in right, right Yep. So I think you know I've talked about this quite a bitrecently. Is that you know now is this window. I mean, I think that we canalways be creative. We can always rethink and reassess how we might do things in business andall different levels, both like sales, marketing market strategy etc, but, butnow, when people have a tendency to slow down a little bit and have alittle bit more time on their hands to rethink and assess, or just whether Ihave time or not, I'm making time right...

...back and figure out. What does thismean for me going forward that we are going to see so much creativity comeout of this situation that you know so many things will be burst that that it's a very exciting time for thattype of process to take place, and you know what one of the things that we'verealized is that okay, things might be crazy on the provider organization side,but folks, who are maybe I in insurance or who are other sotware vendors,they're, probably bord out of their minds at home. You know, maybe there'sthere's a little bit of chaos, but it's nothing like being in a providerorganization right now, right right now, it's not a bad time to have an open,ended discussion with those people about you. Now here's what we weredoing, free, covid or or for hospitals. There are these aspectsof it. We think might be relevant for for Your Business, yeah yeah think Yep. Exactly so, you know, being an entrepreneur is a very challenging career choice right. Ittakes a lot of resilience. So what are some of the ways that youare staying motivated these days? That's that's! A good question I thinkpart of it is like you have to recognize that there'sgoing to be there's going to be days where everything sex and you want to throw inin the towel. But I try to take the perspective of okay. You know todayeverything sex, but I still have that conress station scheduled for two weeksfrom now with so and to- and you know, there's there's a lot of potentialthere and there are these other things that that we've got going for us andjust kind of step back and realize, like I'm,not always going to feel this way, Yeah Yeah Yep absolutely! And it's reallythat resilience. That, I think is the is a big difference. I was listening toa podcast the other day and I don't remember the name of the person, butthey were reiterating a story of, I think, a famous swimmer. I don't knowshe's traveling around the world. I mean a swimming around the worldswipming from one country. It was a pretty long swim. It was some kind ofincredible swim and it ended up being foggy and she gave up about twentyyards before Theoh. No, because she couldn't see the end, and so you know they were making the analogy thatmajority of the people give up, because they can't see what's next, but theygive up right before that that they're about to win,...

...and so you know the ones that successsucceed, ore, the ones that like keep going right. You know you put eightypercent of the effort in before you start to see any kind of return. Right,I'd say it's way higher than Ahty, but yes, she's like it feels like Andred andwate. So who are who've been the most influential in inthis career in this endeavor most like Missan infontial people in mylife? Well, as it as it happens, my older brotheris also an entrepreneurexcept he's a rocket scientist socome on he's building tools to make jet engines moreefficient, which is a very, very long path. Another highly regulated industrylots of concerns about safety, an yeah. You know that it's a really rnd heavy endeavor, andso I'm just really impressed with how he's how he stayed, how he stayed thecourse but thet that makes for reallyinteresting conversation at family dinners. Yeah doeand ouknowthere have been a few position executives who were coing nearthe end of the their careers who have taken me under their wing because theyrealized hey. You know this girl has new ideas about the way we've alwaysdone things, and so there's a thieat medical officer that is brilliant, esan applied mathemetician and an electric hardiologist, and he was theone who had kind of. I guess the first most blunt conversations with me. Whilewe were doing customer discovery, it Wsit was really interesting early on.We kind of had this idea that know what, if we could be like Amazon in your Emrand use predictive analytics to figure out what providers want to see nextpart of this conversation was when we realized. That was a terrible idea,even though I had our companies that are doing that and the point he brought up was youknow that sounds really cool, but we struggle with the basics. We can'tfigure out WHO's, taking care of our patients. What problems are being activelymanaged right now or what medications they're really on or not really odd. Soif you can address the basics, that'd be great and leave this sexty fancystuff for some other time right, because it's not really that relevantright now and actualy. That was to us that that was really an ohi moment,because we we looked around and re rerealized yeah, there's lots of peopletrying to do really sexy innovations and healthcare and I'm a bymentallenengineer. I'm all about the you know, deep brain stimulators and tissueengineering at that stuff are cool, but...

...what about getting the basics right?Yeah ind surrounding yourself with truthtellers like that, is a game changer. It really was because otherwise youknow we would have. We move gone down the path I'm trying to build some fancy,predictive, analetics engine and then later on, realized. Oh, you know whathappens when you, when you tell clonition that you're going to figureout what's relevant to them and constrain their view of a patientthey're gon, to worry that? Oh, what? If you? What are you hiding from me?What is your algorithm, not catching as if you, if you just change the way,Datas organized and change the way you can search for things, then you'reempowering them to catch their own fish, yeah yep? Absolutely so I want to goback to this investor pitch. So how was how is or was pitching today, postcovid different than pitching before honestly, it surprised me that itdidn't feel that different okay, it didn't it didn't feel that differentother than I there was a lot more. I guess bullishness around healthcarschanging, let's get in now. You know we when, as we were preparing he pitch,were like Ograb, you know we were about. We were about to get diaction and nowall we can say was beforeon of virus. We ere about to get traction and, Ohyeah. We have this ongoing conversations which make him feel likewe're about to get Trashn, but guess what we don't have drugs Igthad, notvery many ways to spind that and our hands ere like you know what go nothing, but when overe way better than we expect it,then I think part of what we lost sight of was that angel investors to a certain extent caninvest more on a a gut feel necessarily thevcs and theyre. You know theygenerally become angel investors for different reasons. They might you knowthey might be old enough that you know they may orm may not actually see thefruits of the of the investment now. So so it's just it's just different the reasons peopleget into it, which means, I think, if Yeou have people, might be buying more of the ofthe mission than how is this going to make me money? Although howise is goingto make me money, is a filter, yeah, Yeah Yep? Absolutely so what advice doyou have four fellow entrepreneurs that are in the trenches right now? What arejust some of the lessons that you've learned already, I would say, think, really hard if you're Realik,core value proposition is efficiency, because...

...there there are, you will find peoplein the health system who all they care about, is efficiency, and that canblindside you, because when it comes to th the people who are most influentialin writing, checks there, they don't see efficiency on the balance. sheetenecessarily they see you revenues, and so, if you're, not it whenever possible, if you can havesomething that says, this is going to directly make you more revenue, that'smuch better than than the offisiony, and that that kills me. That kills meto say, because we know billions of dollars are being wasted. It's just it doesn't it's somehow efemeral rightright, you to administraggors the the other thing is. I think we wepersonally overestimated the the importance of clinicalchampions, and by that I mean clinical champions are necessary, but notsufficient, but they're. Also not wizards. You know, and thee also mightnot be as familiar with all the kind of withthe way the decision making sausage gets made when it comes to anadministration and that a lot of PA times has to do with the fact that inhospitals across the board in general, there's a lot of friction betweenclinical leadership and inm administrative leadership and theydon't necessarily see ITA ion priorities. So, if you have you know,it happened to us that we we had just. We had clinical champions that werejust effusive in their praises of us, but- and so we kind of you know we kind of got all excited about it. Well, here we go e xcte about that, butwe didn't. What we didn't realize was that that'll only carry you that willonly get ousded at the table, but it's not a guarantee that administratorswill see Ey to eye yeah yep absolutely, and I think that that's part of thecomplexity of selling into health care is that you know it all be to be ormost by to be sales have a myriad of stakeholders, and you know, I think,that each value proposition is really important and very critical, andsometimes we can get caught up in the value proposition for the patient orthe value proposition for the provider and forget them of the patient and viceversa or the one writing the check so being really clear on who the stakeholders are in that buying process and the value proposition for each one andknowing when and where to use each one, I think is so important and it justmakes that that sale and healthcare so much more complicated right right. No,we discovered efricienceis a great vag proposition for providers. It's youknow. As you kind of move up in the administrative chain, it gets less saxy,Yep, Yeah Yep, absolutely well Andi.

Thank you. So much for your time today.I really appreciate you, sharing your wisdom, always like to give you anopportunity to share your contact information with our listeners in caseanyone wants to get a hold of you. After the show sure you can reach MeviaYemail, it's Anna at surfire DOTCO, and I guess Yoyou can leave that you canleave that in the conments or or pin me on Linkdon Anda Gomesto Campo.Excellent. Thank you so much thanks Dar to Roxy. Thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and Ivalue your time and your attention to save tind and get the latest episodeson your mobile device automatically subscribe to the show on your favoritepodcast APP like apple podcasts, spotify and stitcher. Thank you forlistening and I appreciate everyone. WHO's been sharing. The show withfriends and colleagues, see you on the next episode of coiq.

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