Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

Nurse-Led Innovation & The Importance of Nursing Input in the Development of Technology w/Dr. Bonnie Clipper

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

There are four times as many nurses as doctors in the healthcare field. However, input from nurses is often overlooked or ignored in the innovation process. How is leaving nurses, a valuable stakeholder group, out of the equation doing a disservice to the whole industry? What valuable skills and information do nurses bring to product development and commercialization? How can including nurses' insights optimize the product co-creation process?

 

On this episode, I’m joined by nurse-led innovation thought leader, author, and international speaker, Dr. Bonnie Clipper, who shares on the importance of including nurses in innovation and how to build innovations that succeed.

 

3 Things We Learned

  • Nurse insights are more critical than you realize at all levels of innovation
  • The viewpoints of physicians and surgical nurses are different from care nurses
  • How nurses can help health innovators develop more commercially viable solutions

 

Nurses play a huge role in the healthcare system, and that’s why it’s so important to weave their input into every stage of the innovation process from concept to product development to commercialization. Nurses can’t be excluded if we truly want to transform healthcare and improve patients' lives. Technology is just one part of the solution — human input is also necessary. Their input can be the difference between the market success or failure.

 

Welcome to Coiq and first of itskind video program about health innovators, early adoptors and influencers and their stories aboutwriting the roller coaster of healthcare innovation. I'm your host, Dr Roxy,founder of Legacy DNA marketing group, and it's time to raise our COIQ.Welcome back toiq listeners. On today show I have Dr Bonnie Clipper with usand she is a really incredible woman. I'm really excited to speak to hertoday. She is an innovation evangelist, she's a professor, she's an author, she's an international speaker and she what's unique about her is for several yearsnow she's had a laser focus on nurse led innovation, and this is atopic that I don't really hear discussed very often, and so I'm really interestedin diving deep and for us to have a better understanding of what she's doingand how that would impact all of our innovative listeners who are bringing technology tomarket. So welcome to the show, Bonnie. Thanks for Roxy. So, first off, you know, for those of our listeners who don't knowwho you are, give us a little bit of information about your background andyou know what you do there are tons of letters behind your name, sohelp us make sense of what it all means. Absolutely so. I havebeen a nurse for almost thirty years. I hate to say that at makesme feel older than I that I like to be, but I've done thisfor a while and I've actually been a chief nurse executive for twenty years andover the last five years, almost five years now, I pivoted into theinnovation space to really focus on that. So my background as a nurse,I actually was in critical care and transplant and very early on in my practiceI knew that I wanted to give feedback and make a change and what Ilearned is that as a bedside nurse you don't always get kind of the uptakeor maybe the respect or people to listen...

...to the feedback the way that youbelieve is valuable. So I learned that I had to move up the ladderto kind of get into a leadership position to truly do things that that Ifelt like we're going to better the care for the patient, the environment forthe nurses. So eventually I became a chief nursing officer and did debt forquite a while. I was a Robert Wood Johnson executive nurse bellow, startingin two thousand and fourteen, and for me that was really a catalyst.That's where I began to just learn about innovation and that was a mind blowingfor me to completely different world, as a completely different nomenclature and it's allabout sharing and collaboration. So that attracted me and as a result of that, I was actually asked to apply for the position that was new at theAmerican Nurses Association at the time, for the vice president of innovation. SoI did that for almost two years and actually we'll just be leaving that positionand moving into a different role achieve clinical officer role of a tech company ina week. That's awesome. Will dive deeper into that for sure. So, you know, I think that it because this topic or phenomenon, inmy mind, is so new for some people. Let's just start off talkingabout what do you mean when you say learn nurse led innovation and why isthat even important? Yeah, that's a great question. So innovation has amultitude of definition. So often people try to pin me down to what's thedefinition. There isn't just one right. There's there's literally eight or ten definitionsit's important to know about innovation is that it's really around novel approaches or sortof repurposing existing solutions in a way that brings value. It either maybe itsaves money, or maybe it's streamlines a process or maybe it affords more peopleaccess. So it has to truly do something different. Innovation comes into forms. It comes in very incremental, which...

...is still very good, or disruptive, right like SPACEX, like Tesla, like Uber, things of that nature. So it's really kind of all over the board. It's hard to putit down. When I talk about nurse let innovation, what that really meansis that in healthcare, or even in health, which means wellness as well, there is so much that we can improve or transform, and to dothat it's going to have to happen with the help of nurses. So clearlyI'm biased. I'm a nurse and there are four million registered nurses. Thatmeans there are four times as many nurses as physicians, eight times as manynurses as pharmacists. Nurses need to lead the charge, yet we often arenot equipped or trained how to use this skill set we have and we don'tunderstand the terminology and kind of that the hardest of those is it? Oftentimestech companies don't approach nurses, but rather approach other clinicians when they're developing solutions. So nurses are going to have to leave the charge to truly transform health. So when you say lead the charge, you know, in my mind there'sthis kind of like two packs where it's like nurse turned entrepreneur, likewe see some physicians have turned into entrepreneurship, and so they're kind of innovating theirown solutions. And then there's this other path of you know, healthinnovators that are bringing solutions to market. And how are they weaving in thenurses input at multiple phases of the product development process? Right? So howI like to think about this is if you were an entrepreneur, that happensto be a nurse, or if your tech person, that happens to bea nurse, if you're an innovator, that happens to be a nurse.Right, the nurse piece of it is kind of our superpower. Yeah,so really it's about how is it you go down either that the channel toimprove technology or the channel to improve kind...

...of care delivery or models of care, and you happen to be a nurse. So think about it this way.Oftentimes in the world of solutions, there are solutions that are developed,especially still today with tech companies, and many times these examples are brought tome. Right companies will send me an invite and say, Hey, wewant to demo this product for you. So I look at the product andI'll say, what problem were you trying to solve? Right, because theproblem hasn't truly been refined or defined. Yeah, and they essentially have asolution that's looking for a problem and oftentimes they spend hundreds of thousands, maybeeven millions of dollars on this solution that really doesn't do what it was intendedto do because they're kind of off by a little bit. If nurses wereinvolved in that equation up front, in the design and development, we couldactually help eliminate or speed up kind of that development the Rd time, basedon the fact that we could really help his zero in on the right problemto define and then approach it the right way. So nursing, I think, is really it's been super, super quiet in this whole equation, butyou're seeing right now people start to really raise their hands and say we wantto be or need to be included in these solutions or in the process toadvanced this work. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I mean there's somany different variables that play but I have seen that you're right that there aretwo approaches. One, I have a technology, let me go find aproblem, and then I have a problem and by a way, by theway, technology is going to enable us to solve this problem, and that'sa big difference between success and failure. That's right. It is a bigdifference and what you said there was just key. Oftentimes technology isn't the solution, it's part of the solution. And what nurses bring are the workflows rightand we're the frontline people across the entire...

...continuing to care from entry to exit, whether it's home care, outpatient, clinics, in patient, no matterwhat it is, nurses understand the workflows. So in order for technology to trulybe successful, we have to enable it and leverage it, but italso has to meet the needs of the workflows. So those pieces have towork hand in hand. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think that thatis just I knew I was going to be excited about this discussion todaybecause it is such a missing piece. You know, as I've worked withtechnology innovators over the years, it's been a big push to try to getthem to incorporate patient input in the product development process of right in, asdifficult is that was. I feel like we are making substantial strides and andthat vein. And then you have the providers and you know, incorporating theminto the product development process. But I have not had one customer or client, not one company, talk about how they were incorporating nurses in this process. I mean, I'm just being really candid. It's how to do moreof it. Definitely soolutely. And it's funny because I've even had I demoto product probably a year ago, twelve months ago, and it was aninteresting solution and I asked if they had nursing input and they said, Yep, we had nursing input, and I said what kinds of nurses and theysaid, well, it was sergeant nice. I said, wait a minute,that's not a nurse. Well, you know, we've talked to acouple surgeons. Well, that doesn't give you our vantage point, which isvery different, showing. So, while physicians are incredibly important to this equation, their vantage point and their viewpoint and their perceptions are very different than thoseare the nurses that remain in those kind of care settings much longer, muchmore. They're closer to the patients in the families. They understand those dynamicsbetter. Yeah, so by not not...

...going there you're really missing valuable informationand it just seems so obvious when you say it does well, and againI would say so some of this we've done ourselves at disservice. Right.So in nursing we've not leaned into these conversations, we've not said we shouldbe there and we've not sort of demanded a seat at the table to saywe're part of this. Right. So now you're starting to see that happen. You're started the nurses say, wait a minute, we need to bein this conversation. You're seeing people pop up around the country. Now thereare nursing people that are sharing this innervation passion. That's incredibly important for usand I think that's really sort of the start of the movement. Yeah,that's awesome. So that kind of touches on you know, one of mynext questions. You know, when I'm when I'm talking about involving patients orproviders in the cocreation process. There's a lot of fear associated with that,of in a lot of uncertainty. Where do I find them? Do Ihave to pay them? How much do I pay them? What if?What if they give me advice and I don't agree with it? How doI make sure that you know that I don't, you know, ruin thatrelationship or you know that I don't just feel compelled to incorporate their recommendations anddiminish the viability of this solution that I want to bring to market? Somaybe just you know, it seems as though, not just with nurses butin general this whole co creation process. Let's talk about some of the barriersand how you think that those can be overcame. Yeah, that's it.That's a really good point. So I think what's important there is that nerveverses right, are professionals, just as physical therapist, physicians, speech therapistothers. So everyone across that clinical spectrum should be treated the same way.It should not be discipline specific, and it's really important to think that.Today, Cross functional or interdisciplinary teams are...

...the way we all operate. Itis not driven by one profession or another. Those days are over. So nowit's very, very equal across that continuoum. So part of what's importantis to set guard rails up front, right. So if you're a techcompany and you're going to have these conversations and you want a harvest information,it's important to say up front you know, this is what we're looking for andlet us help you understand how this kind of works for us. Wewant to hear your feedback. We're going to incorporate the pieces that we believeare really going to contribute to advancing the product. HMM, everything may notfit in with what we were thinking about. Yes, that's important DEP front,certainly having the conversation well in advance about are we pay you to besort of a subject matter expert, right as me, or an independent consultants, or are we just picking your brain, you know, on a phone callfor a fifteen, twenty minutes? Those things are different. What Iam seeing more is a trend in that, as nurses are being asked to provideinformation if it's something that's kind of an hour or longer, I amstarted to see tech companies being willing to pay for that. Yeah, Ithink that that depends on the route that both the company wants to go aswell as the nurses. An individual, I coach nurses to ask for money. Physicians are doing it, nurses should be as well. The other thingthat you could do is there's actually a really great organization. It's called thenurses on boards coalition. Okay and OBC DOT Org. You, as acompany, can actually go to that website and then complete a profile of whatyou're looking for, and hundreds of thousands of nurses from across the country gothere as well. So it's like a match making service. So if you'rea company looking for nurses on an advisory board or on your board, that'swhere you would go to gather that information.

That's huge. Thank you for that. Yeah, I'm familiar with the company we go health, but theirplatform is strictly patients, right, so their entire this model is incorporating patients, and that was going to be one of my questions for you is,did they have anything similar to that for nurses? And it says it okay, awesome. So help me just understand you know, I know that you'reencouraging the nurses to ask for money, which I think is rightfully so,but if you just kind of overall are is it better? Are you gettingbetter insights if they are financially compensated, or is it that you have somefolks that are just really passionate about the cause and they all contribute no matterwhat? I think you're always going to have both of those scenarios right.I think you're always going to have people that want to share their knowledge andtheir feedback from experience and I think you're going to have people that are willingto share it who maybe more of the subject matter experts that get tapped alot and over the course of time, when you get tapped a lot,time, your time costs you something. Right, absolutely, there's. That'sright. So there's something that you need and should be compensated when it comesto being that subject matter expert on a regular basis. Then that's where itmakes sense, you know, to be paid just as you would pay aphysician. Hmm, yeah, absolutely. So the other thing that I wantto talk about is, you know, is we think about that whole productlife cycle. There's there's a lot of discussion around including, you know,stakeholders in the design process, but what I see is is still missing orwe're just starting to scratch the surfaces, is talking around that whole ideation andevaluation. So some of the steps that happen before. So instead of likeI have a product, what do you think about it? Like you talkedabout, really that ideation around the product...

...in the solution development. And thenI'm also seeing a little bit of conversation around including those stakeholders on the theback end of that when I'm actually going to market. So in making thestakeholders like part of the marketing team where they're actually key influencers, right,so they're helping to get the word out and rise above the noise and they'realso even helping to develop content. So just kind of speak to your experiencewith that. Yeah, so what you're describing is really utilizing human center designor design thinking in a pretty deep and intense way. So human center designor EIGHTCD, it always starts with empathy. So I think that we continue tolearn. In the past we've seen that as a really warm and fuzzyword and we're like, oh, that's so sweet, somebody has empathy.Now we really learned to sort of turn this into kind of a quantifiable businessapproach, right, Yep, or that we did more time we spend trulyempathize with what people are going through and why. That allows us to moreclearly define the problem that we're trying to solve or the problem that they have, so as we understand it. What's so beautiful about that is we reallycan peel it back about five times right. So kind of as I was trainedin design thinking. What I was trained is is that you ask fivelayers of why. So, if the problem is that patients, for example, aren't showing up on time to sand a surgery, why? Well,maybe they can't find the signs in the hallway. The wayfinding sport will.Why is that? Maybe the parking isn't in the right place and the parkingdoesn't kind of connect them as quickly to the fastest route. Well, youknow, why isn't that so? Why isn't that easier? Why isn't thatobvious? Maybe the parking lots aren't labeled properly? Well, why is thata problem? Well, maybe because they're nervous and they're running late and there'straffic. Well, why is that a...

...problem? Well, cheepers, maybewe're not informing them way back when that they need it will take thirty minutesto find their spot park walk to our office. So they need to addan extra thirty minutes to their process? Or do we have our same daysurgery entrance located in the wrong part of the building? Right? So Ithink as you really dig back, you can understand more about the wise.Once you figure out the empathy component, then you can move into defining theproblem and, as you just describe, that next step is going to beideating. One of the things that we tend not to do well when itcomes to ideation is that we don't we're not very thoughtful and used to vergeit thinking right. Thinking means we just throw everything on the table and andlater we converge those ideas. But we want every idea, no matter howwacky and crazy, because some of them might have merit right. Right andto do in health care is because we have such a low risk, atolerance and a version of failure is that we actually sort out, even inour minds before we share ideas, the those that are going to be Sillier, goofy or nondoable. So we really don't we're not very tolerant of risk. We're not we don't have a tolerance of failure. So we already tryto thin the herd, put the best ideas out there and then as wemove through, you know, kind of that pipeline, what we end upwith is something that's, not to discomm similar than what we already have.Right, right, yeah, I have this team member who prefaces. Wenever when we're doing strategic collaborations internally. She will say this is going tosound really stupid and I go, okay, the brilliances come in, because thatis when she's just really brilliant, when she thinks it's the most ridiculousidea, I'm like gold. Right. Well, the other thing we tendto do, not only a nursing but in healthcare, is we say wetried that before. Yeah, you know what, good, let's try itand w when people like to say,...

Oh, we've done that, likethat's awesome, then this is v two point or V four. No,right, you got to get him out there because maybe the circumstances are different, maybe the timings different, the budgets different, the people are different,the building is different. You know, reimbursement is different, caregivers are different, something's different. But just because you did it that way before doesn't meanyou can't try it again? Yeah, yeah, so I feel like you, you know, have your ear to the ground, you know, youhave such an influence and then in a network, and so I want toget your perspective on this. I talked about this phenomenon of, you know, the different prints between commercial success and commercial failure and you know, whenwe have this conversation we really talk about the complexities in the difficulty of commercializedand innovation in the healthcare space, especially compared to, you know, otherverticals. So why do you why do you think some innovator succeed and somefail? You know, I think it depends. If it's product innovation.You really need to do a super good job of solving the right problem andkind of creating a solid business case. Right. We all know that theeconomics are very important. You look at funding, you have to make shortsustainable. Then you have the whole market launch, you have the marketing piece. I mean that's very complicated in the nursing world, generally speaking, nursesaren't trained on those things, so they really have to kind of find waysto address those issues and try to fill some of those gaps. And it'snot dissimilar that physicians. Physicians aren't trained that way either. Right, right. So what we tendency is it oftentimes positions. When they launch an idea, they can be more successful just because there is an income differential. Sosometimes that they're they're from a starting from a different place financially. Right.But we do see a lot of very, very successful nurse innovators and nurse entrepreneurs. So give us some examples. Who's doing it well? So there'sactually two guys out of New York, Dr Paul Coyn and Mike Wang.They started a company called inspirin their two...

...nurses. They noticed that there weresafety issues with their patients. So they develop this thing that's called in Iend. It's a cognitive patient assist device that they brought in. They spenttheir own money on this and brought in some NASA engineers and actually defont designsomething that uses kind of the cloud, right aws, and it uses purposefulmovement tracking and essentially what it does is it can tell if a patient's movingin a purposeful manner or an unsafe manner. The device changes colors kind of thethe red, Yellow Greens to alert people as to whether or not there'sa safety issue and then it also sends an alert to the nurse and thatand the text phone to let them know that a patient is potentially in anunsafe situation. It can also track to know who you know who's in theroom, how long someone's in the room, those kind of things. So they'reable to run reports if patients, if you're on a unit and youmight have a high vap evaporate or a pressure also rate, they can actuallyrun reports that show how often caregivers, they can break it out by nursesor PCT's or CNAS have been in the room. So that's an amazing product. Joe Novella out of Oregon, he actually designed and developed a scal staffingand scheduling software, nurse Grid. That's absolutely amazing. Tiffany Kelly, shedeveloped an APP that can be used for giving report that allows nurses to doit on their phone and have that information in their pocket. But there's tonsand tons of examples out there. I mean I could literally go on andgive it probably another ten that you know. That nurse grid thing is fascinating becauseit's like my initial reaction is, do we really need another scheduling platform? So there must be doing something really unique and different that create that valueand create their own space in that category. And he's been around for a coupleyears and he's a nurse. So it was designed from a nurse centricview right, and they have tons and...

...tons of users and it's sort ofschedule Agnostics, so it actually incorporates different schedules into it and it allows youto look at your view very differently and you can communicate it and share itwith friends and family and stuff. So there's some really amazing stuff that nurseshave done that that are out there and I see that as continually growing.So I love to talk about that and help nurses who have an idea intheir head, Yep, get it out and develop a business plan. HMM, absolutely. So. So you recently left the American nurse and association,like hot off the press, I think, just as of this week that pressrelease went out. Yes, that's right, I just left, soWednesday was my last day. That's right. So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you're doing next and how that's exciting for you. Yeah, it'sreal bitter sweet. I mean, the American Nurses Association's a great, greatorganization. They've been around for twenty five years doing really amazing stuff. I'msuper, super honor to abandon the first vice president innovation. I created therole, I created the innovation framework for them. I developed what's called NursePitch, which we've done three of those very successfully. OF DEVELOP THEIR INNOVATIONLAB platform. That's been a blast. Wow. So it became apparent tome that I really, really get excited by this innovation step. So asI started to build relationships with tech companies across the country, kind of developsome really good relationships to the point of saying, Hey, what could wedo here with this company and how might we really leverage this skill set sothat we could make a difference, a true impact to patients and nurses withthis particular product. So as of next week I will be working with Womby, which is a patient engagement and a staffing kind of a nursing recognition platform, and it's powered on gratitude. So...

...never in a million years would Ihave thought that I would have left the job to work for a tech company. Except this company's incredibly unique and it doesn't work based on sharing data andpushing hard on people who are performing, but rather it works by patients intheir families, showing gratitude and recognizing their caregivers and then through a game offight a roach in the dashboard. People want to compete to be in thetop couple of places. So it really helps to bring everyone up instead ofpushing on those that aren't performing well, because we all know that has kindof a carmmy feel to it. Right, right, but when you have peoplethat are wanting to compete and be number one, that's a whole lotmore fun. So that's the approach and I'm really excited about shifting to thatcompany next week. That's awesome. So what's going to be your role?Yeah, so I'm going to be the chief clinical officer, you know,really focusing a lot on thought leadership, clinical innovation, strategic partners to obviouslyto help grow the company, but also make sure that we're making an impactin the lives of nurses in patients. So that's important. So you're apersonal mission and cause hasn't changed one bit. Hasn't changed one bit. Well,and of course I would say I'm putting in a plug here, butI am going to be speaking and already I'm getting emails from people that arevery, very interested in having me come in and speak for their events andthings of that nature, even doing workshops on innovation. So I think there'sso much out there that we can continue to do for nurses. That's awesome. Look, congratulations on your new valve. I look forward to seeing all thatyou're going to do for that company going forward. Excellent. Thanks.And we have a book coming out in August, the nurses guide to innovations. So that's going to be pretty cool and that's kind of a culmination.There are eight of us that are authors on that and they're the most commonquestions that I ever received as I've traveled...

...around the country in the last twoyears, from nurses around building a business plan. How do I become aninnovator? How do I write a business plan? How do I secure funding? How do I protect my intellectual property, which is, you know, isa huge problem, and you know, how do I engage nurses in myhospital, my department, my unit, so we can solve problems more collaboratively? How do I use design thinking? So we wrote a book on it, so that's pretty cool and that's coming out soon. That's great.You'll have to let me know when it's ready and I'll help promote it foryou. Wonderful. Thank you so so one of the last questions that Ihave for you is, you know, we talked about, we talk alot about like patient adoption and physician adoption. So what, from your perspective,what are some of the strategies that you would recommend for our health innovativelisteners who are launching innovations and they are struggling with nurse adoption? So Ithink there are a couple of ways. First, make sure you get inputright. It's hard to solve a problem and think that you have the solutionwhen you haven't define the problem accurately. So I would say start up front, ask nurses for their input, their feedback, their ways to do focusgroups, their expensive ways. You can do focus groups if you're a big, well funded organization or they're probably are cheaper ways that you could do focusgroups. Pay Attention, know what's going on in social media. There arethere are some of US nurse influencers that are really pretty active. So Ihave people reach out to me probably a hundred times a week that asked meif I can connect them with somebody or do they know someone else that's workingon this for something. So I try to match make as best I can. I try to answer questions as best I can or send those are inquiring, I send them to others to kind of find some solutions. That's reallyone way to do it. Through social media, look at the NBC dotOrg site. That's another way to try to get input on your advisory Boardsand your boards. And then I would...

...say just stay really, really closeto the ground and what's going on and what's contemporary in nursing practice. Andthe best ways to do some of those things are looking at the conferences goingon or what's being, you know, written. When you do kind ofa Google word alert or something, you'll find out what's going on with thatparticular topic or idea. Sure, that's great. So that leads me tomy last and final question for today is how can people get Ahold of you? If Oh yeah, if you, what's the best way? So I'mvery active on social so I love I'm actually, I think, the toptwo or three number nurse influence on Linkedin. So I have a linkedin profile.Feel free to connect. I really do correspond with people pretty regularly.I'm also pretty active on twitter, so I'm at thought leader R N ontwitter, and then I'm just starting to get into instagram because I love justthe ability need to be very visual and have people respond to that. Sonew to that platform, but that's getting to be a blast so far inon that one I'm urn I NNOV and the number eight, eight R andinnovate love. So there's some really cool ways to reach me. It areout there and if people want to find me in a look hard enough throughmy linkedin profile, they'll actually get my email as well. Dig Deep,right, dude, that's right, awesome. Well, thank you so much forsharing your wisdom today with our listeners. I really appreciate it. Yeah,that it's been awesome. Thanks so much. Thank you. What's thedifference between launching and commercializing a healthcare in avation? Many people will launch anew product, few will commercialize it. To learn the difference between launch andcommercialization and to watch past episodes of the show, head to our video showpage at Dr Roxycom. Thanks so much for watching and listening to the show. You can subscribe to the latest episodes on your favorite podcast APP like applepodcasts and spotify, or subscribe to the...

...video episodes on our youtube channel.No matter the platform, just search coiq with Dr Roxy. Until next time, LET'S RAISE OUR COIQ.

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