Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

Nurse-Led Innovation & The Importance of Nursing Input in the Development of Technology w/Dr. Bonnie Clipper

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

There are four times as many nurses as doctors in the healthcare field. However, input from nurses is often overlooked or ignored in the innovation process. How is leaving nurses, a valuable stakeholder group, out of the equation doing a disservice to the whole industry? What valuable skills and information do nurses bring to product development and commercialization? How can including nurses' insights optimize the product co-creation process?

 

On this episode, I’m joined by nurse-led innovation thought leader, author, and international speaker, Dr. Bonnie Clipper, who shares on the importance of including nurses in innovation and how to build innovations that succeed.

 

3 Things We Learned

  • Nurse insights are more critical than you realize at all levels of innovation
  • The viewpoints of physicians and surgical nurses are different from care nurses
  • How nurses can help health innovators develop more commercially viable solutions

 

Nurses play a huge role in the healthcare system, and that’s why it’s so important to weave their input into every stage of the innovation process from concept to product development to commercialization. Nurses can’t be excluded if we truly want to transform healthcare and improve patients' lives. Technology is just one part of the solution — human input is also necessary. Their input can be the difference between the market success or failure.

 

Welcome to Coiq and first of its kindvideo program about health, innovators, earlie doctors and influencers, andthey are stories about writing the roller coaster of health care andovation. I'm your host doctor, Roxy Founder of Legacy, DNA marketing groupand it's time to raise our COIQ welcome back to Youyq listeners ontoday's show. I have Dr Bonny Clipper with us and she is a really incrediblewoman. I'm really excited to speak to her today. She is an innovation,evangelist she's, a professor she's, an author she's, an international speakerand what's unique about her, is for several years now. She's had a laserfocus on nurse led innovation, and this is a topic that I don't really heardiscussed very often, and so I'm really interested in diving deep and for us tohave a better understanding of what she's doing and how that would impassall of our innovative listeners who are bringing technology to market sowelcome to the show bonny thanks for boxy. So, first off you know for thoseof our listeners who don't know who you are, give us a little bit ofinformation about your background, and you know what you do. There are tons of letters behind yourname, so help us make sense of what it all means absolutely so I have been anurse for almost thirty years hate to say that it makes me feel older than Ithat I like to be, but I've done this for a while, and I've actually been a achief nurse executive for twenty years and over the last five years, almostfive years now I'v pipited into the innovation space, to really focus onthat. So my background as a nurse I actually was in critical carandtransplant and very early on in my practice. I knew that I wanted to givefeedback and make a change, and what I learned is that as a bedside nurse, youdon't always get...

...kind of the uptake, or maybe therespect or people to listen to the feedback. The way that you believe isvaluable Anso. I learned that I had to move up the ladder to kind of get intoa leadership position, to truly do things that I felt like we're going tobetter to care for the patient, the environment, Ful, Ly, nurses. Soeventually I became a chief nursing officer and did that for quite a while.I was a Robert Woith Johnson executive nurse, fellow starting in that twothousand and fourteen, and for me that was really a catalyst. That's where Ibegan to just learn about innovation, and that was mind blowing for me, 's ocompletely different world is a completely different nomenclature andit's all about sharing and collaboration. So that attracted me,and as a result of that, I was actually asked to apply for the position thatwas new with the American nursees association at the time for the vicepresident of enovation. So I did that for almost two years and actually willjust be leaving that position and moving into a different role, a chiefclinical officer role of Ha Tech Company in a week. That's awesome welldive deeper into that for sure. So you know. I think that it, becausethis topic or phenomenon in my mind, is so new for some people. Let's just startoff talking about what do you mean when you say nurse led innovation, and whyis that even important? Yeah? That's a great question. Soinnovation has a multitude, a definition. So often people try to pinme down to what's Dod decondition there isn't just one right. There's, there'sliterally eight or ten definitions which important to know aboutinnovation. Is that it's really around novel approaches or sort of repurposingexisting solutions in a way that brings value it either? Maybe it saves moneyor maybe it's streamlines a process, or maybe it affords more people access, soit has to truly do something. Different...

...innovation comes into forms. It comesin very incremental, which is still very good or desruptive right, likespaceex like Tesla, like Uber things of that nature, so it's really kind of allover the board. It's hard to pit it down. When I talk about nurseledItovation, what that really means is that in healthcare or even in health,which means wellness as well, there is so much that really we could improve ortransform, and to do that, it's going to have to happen with the help ofnurses. So clearly I'm biased, I'm a nurse, and there are four millionregistered nurses. That means there are four times as many nurses as positionseight times as many nurses, as pharmacists nurses need to lead thecharge. Yet we often are not equipped or trained how to use this skill thatwe have, and we don't understand the terminology and kind of that thehardest of those is that oftentimes tech companies, don't approach nurses,but rather approach other clonitions when they're developing solutions, sonurses are going to have to leave the jars to truly transform health, so whenyou say leave the charge, you know in my mind, there's there's kind of liketwo paths where it's like nurse turned entrepreneur like we see somephysicians have turned into entrepreneurship and so they're kind ofinnovating, their own solutions and then there's this other path of youknow: health, innovators, that are bringing solutions to market and howare they weaving in the nursees input at multiple phases of the productdevelopment process right, so how I like to think aboutthis is, if you ere an entrepreneur that happens to be a nurse or, ifyou're, a tech person that happens to be a nurse if you're an innovator thathappens to be a nurse right, the nursepiece of it is kind of oursuperpower. Yeahe. Really it's about. How is it you go down either that thechannel to improve technology or the...

...channel to improve kind of care,delivery, onr models of care, and you happen to be a nurse so think about it?This way, oftentimes in the world of solutions.There are solutions that ave developed, especially still today with techcompanies and many times. These examples are brought to me right.Companies will send me an INBITE and say hey. We want to Damo this productfor you, so I look at the product and I'll say what problem were you tryingto solve right? Because the problem hasn'tsruely been refined or defined yeah? They essentially have a solution.That's looking for a problem, and often times they spend hundreds of thousands,maybe ven millions of dollars on this solution. That really doesn't do whatit was intended to do, because they're kind of off by a little bit. If nurseswere involved in that equation up front in the design and development, we couldactually help eliminate or speed up kind of that development thrd time,based on the fact that we could really help eseruin on the right problem todefine and then approach it the right way. So nursing, I think, is reallyit's been super super quiet in this whole equation, but you're seeing rightnow, people start to really raise their hands and say we want to be or need tobe included in these solutions or in the process to advance this work. Yeahyeah absolutely- and I mean there's so many different variables that play, butI have seen that you're right that there are two approaches: one. I have atechnology, let me go, find a problem and then I have a problem and by a way,by the way, technology is going to enable us to solve this problem andthat's a big difference between success and failure. That's right! It is a bigdifference and what you said there was just key: oftentimes technology. Isn'tthe solution? It's part of thes solution and what nurses brain are thework flows right and were the frontline people across the entire continumentcare from entry to exit, whether it's...

Homecare, outpatient clinics impatient?No matter what it is? Nurses understand the workflows. So in order fortechnology to truly be successful, we have to enable it and leverage it, butit also has to meet the needs of the workflows. So those pieces have to workhim in hand. Yeah yeah absolutely, and I think that that is just mean. I knewI was going to be excited about this discussion today, because it is such amissing pieace. You Know S. I've worked with technology innovators over theyears. It's been a big push to try to get them to incorporate patient input in a productdevelopment process right in as difficult as that was, I feel likewe are making substantial strives in that vein, and then you have theproviders and you know incorporating them into the product developmentprocess, but I have not had one customer or Cliet that one company talkabout how they were incorporating nurses in this process. I mean I'm justbeing really candid and s how to do more of it, definite, absolutely andit's funny, because I've even had IDEMOTA product probably a year agotwelve months ago, and it was an interesting solution and I asked ifthey had nursing input and they said Yep Yep. We had nursing input and Isaid what kinds of nurses- and they said well wash surgeont Nice. I said:Wait a minute that not a nurse you know. We've talked to a couplesurgeons. Well that doesn't give you our vantage point, which is verydifferent show. So, while physicians are incredibly important to thisequation, their vantage point and their viewpoint and their perceptions arevery different than those of the nurses that remain in those kind of caresettings much longer much more they're closer to the patients in the families.They understand those dynamics better...

...yeah. So by not not going there, you'rereally missing valuable information, and it just seems so obvious when yousay it, it does well an again, I would say so.Some of this we've done ourselves a disservice right. So in nursing, we'venot leaned into these conversations. We've not said we should be there andwe've not sort of demanded a seat at the table to say we're part of thisright so now you're starting to see that happen, you're starting he nurses,say, wait a minute. We need to be in this conversation, you're seeing peoplepop up around the country now ther are nursing people that are sharing thisinnervation passion, that's incredibly important for us and I think that'sreally sort of the start of the movement yeah, that's awesome, so thatkind of touches on you know. One of my next questions you know when 'm, whenI'm talking about involving patients or providers in the CO creation process,there's a lot of fear associated with that of in a lot of uncertainty. Where do Ifind them do I have to pay them? How much do I pay them? What if what? Ifthey give me advice- and I don't agree with it? How do I make sure that youknow that I don't you know, ruin that relationship or you know that I don'tjust feel compelled to incorporate their recommendations and diminish theviability of this solution that I want to bring to market. So maybe just youknow, it seems as though not just with nurses, but in general this whole cocreation process. What let's talk about some of the the barriers and how youthink that those can be overcame yeah, that's a that's a really goodpoint, so I think what's important, there is that nurses right areprofessionals just as physical therapist, physicians, speech,therapists, others, so everyone across that clinical spectrum should betreated the same way. It should not be tisdiscipline specific, and it's reallyimportant to think that today, cross,...

...functional or interdespiner teams arethe way we all operate. It is not driven by one profession or another.Those days are over so now it's very, very equal across that Continuun, sopart of what's important, is to set guard rails up front right. So ifyou're, a tech, company and you're going to have these conversations- andyou want a harvest information, its important to say upfront, you know thisis what we're looking for and let us help you understand how this kind ofworks for us. We want to hear your feedback we're going to incorporate thepieces that we believe are really going to contribute to advancing the productmm. Everything may not fit in with what we are thinking about. Yahso, that'simportant tepfront, certainly having the conversation well in advance about.Are we paying you to be sort of a subject matter, expert Ritas me or anindependent consultant? Or Are we just picking your brain? You know on a phonecall for fifteen twenty minutes. Those things are different. What I am seeingmore is a trend in that, as nurses are being asked to provide information. Ifit's something that's kind of an hour or longer, I am started to see techcompanies being willing to pay for that HAE. I think that that depends on theroute that both the company wants to go as well as the Nurseis, an individual.I coach, nurses to ask for money. Physicians are doing it. Nurses shouldbe as well. The other thing that you can do is there's actually a reallygreat organization. It's called the nurses on Boards Coalition, Okay andOBC DOT org you as a company, can actually go to that website and thencomplete a profile of what you're, looking for and hundreds of thousandsof nurses from across the country go there as well. So it's like amatchmaking service, the a fear o a company looking for nurses, on anadvisory board or on your board. That's...

...where you would go to gather thatinformation. That's huge! Thank you for that. Yeah, I'm familiar with thecompany. We go health, but their latform is strictly patience right, sotheyre. No, this model is incorporating patients, and that was going to be oneof my questions, for you is, did they have anything similar to that fornurses and it's it okay, awesome so help me just understand. You know. Iknow that you're encouraging the nurses to ask for money, which I think isrightfully so, but if you just kind of overall are, is it better? Are you gettingbetter insights if they are financially compensated, or is it that you have some folks thatare just really passionate about the cause and they all contribute? Nomatter what I think you're always going to have both of those scenarios Ri, Ithink you're always going to have people that want to share theirknowledge and their feedback from experience, and I think you're going tohave people that are willing to share it. Who may be more of the subjectmatter of experts that get tapped a lot and over the course of time, when youget tapped a lot time, your time costs you something right. Absolute, there's,that's right! So, there's something that you need and should be compensatedwhen it comes to being that subject matter expert on a regular basis, thenthat's where it makes sense. You know to be paid just as you would pay aphysician mm yep absolutely so. The other thing that I want to talk aboutis you know, as we think about that whole product life cycle. There'sthere's a lot of discussion around, including you know, stakeholders in the design process, butwhat I see is is still missing or we're just starting to scratch. The surfacesis talking around that whole idiation and evaluation. So some of the stepsthat happened before so instead of like I have a product. What do you thinkabout it? Like you talked about really...

...that idiation around the product in thesolution, development and then I'm also seeing a little bit of conversationaround including those stake holders on the the back end of that when I'm actuallygoing to market so in making the stake holders like part of the marketing team,where they're actually key influencers right so they're, helping to get theword out and rise above the noise and they're also even helping to developcontent. So just kind of speak to your experience with that yeah. So whatyou're describing is really utilizing human center design or designthinking in a pretty deep and intense way. You Know Human Center, designorACD at always starts with empathy. So I think that we continue to learn in thepast we've seen. That is a really warm and fuzzy word and we're like. Ohthat's, so sweet somebody has empathy. Now, we've really learned to sort ofturn this into kind of a quantifiable business approach right yeah, or thatwe did more time. We spend truly empathize with what people are goingthrough and why that allows us to more clearly define the problem that we'retrying to solve or the problem that they have. So as we understand it,what's so beautiful about that, is we really Conpul it back about five timesright so kind of, as I was traindg an design thinking? What I was trained isis that you ask five layers of why so, if thif, the problem is that patients,for example, aren't showing up on time to Sanday Surgery Wy. Well, maybe theycan't find the signs in the hallway the way finding poor well, why is that?Maybe the parking isn't in the right place and the parking doesn't kind ofconnect them as quickly to the fastest route. Well, you know, why isn't that?So why isn't that easier? Why isn't that obvious? Maybe the parking lotsaren't labeled properly well, why is that a problem wol, maybe becausethey're nervous and they're running late and there's traffic? Well, why isthat a problem will jeepers? Maybe...

...we're not informing them way back whenthat they need. It will take thirty minutes to find their spot park walk toour office, so they need to add an extra thirty minutes to their process,or do we have our same day surgery entrance locate in the wrong part ofthe building. So I think, as you really dig back, you can understand more aboutthe wise. Once you figure out the empathy component, then you can moveinto defining the problem and, as you just describe that next step is goingto be idiating. One of the things that we tend not to do well when it comes toIdiation, is that we don't we're not very thoughtful and used to virgitthinking right. Thinking means we just throw everything on the table and andlater we converse those ideas, but you want every idea, no matter how wackyand crazy, because some of them might have merit right right and to do andhealth cares, because we have such a low risk. A tolerance and a version offailure is that we actually sort out even in our minds before we share ourideas, those that are going to be silly or goofy or non doable. So we reallydon't were not very tolerant of risk or not, but we don't have a tolerance offailure, so we already try to thin the herd, put the best ideas out there andthen, as we move through, you know kind of that pipeline. What we end up withis something that's not too dissumoe similar than what we already have right.Right, yeah. I have this team member who, prefaces we never Wen, were doingstrategic collaborations internally, she will say this is going to sound,really stupid and I go okay. The brilliance is come in because that iswhen she's just really brilliant. When she thinks it's the most ridiculousidea, I'm like gold right well, the other thing we tend todo not only in nursing but in healthcare. Is We say we tried thatbefore yeah, you know what good, let's try it andwhen people like to say. Oh we've done...

...that. Like that's awesome, then this isB, two point out, ORV four point: Ou right you got to get about therebecause maybe the circumstances are different. Maybe the timings different,the budgets different, the people are different. The building is different.You know, reimbursement is different, caregiters are different, something'sdifferent, but just because you did it that way before it doesn't mean youcan't try it again, yeah yeah, so I feel like you, you know, have your earto the ground. You know you have such an influence and in a network, and so Iwant to get your perspective on this. I talk about this phenomenon of you knowthe difference between commercial success and commercial failure, and youknow when we have this conversation. We really talk about the complexities andthe difficulty of Commercializean innovation in the healthcare space,especially compared to you, know other verticals. So why do? Why? Do you thinksome innovators succeed in some fail? You know, I think it depends if it'sproduct innovation, you really need to do a super good job of solving theright problem, ands kind of creating solid business case right. We all knowthat the economics are very important. You look at funding, you have to makesure it's sustainable. Then you have the whole market launch. You have themarketing piece, I mean that's very complicated in the nursing world.Generally speaking, nurses are trained on those things, so they really have tokind of find ways to address those issues and try to fill some of thosegaps, and it's not dissimilar that physicians. Phositians aren't traingthat way, either right right. So what we tend tosee is that awful timespositions when they launch an idea, they can be more successful justbecause there is an income differential, so sometimes that they're there from astarting from a different place financially right, but we do see a lotof very, very successful nurse innovators and Neursonto Preneurs, sogive us some examples, who's doing it. Well, so there's actually two guys out of NewYork, Dr Poupcoin, and Mike Weng. They...

...started a company called InspirenTheyre, two nurses. They noticed that there were safety issues with theirpatients, so they develop this thing. That's called in in it's a cognitivepatient assist evice that they brought in. They spent their own money on thisand brought in some Nassa engineers and actually defot design, something thatuses kind of the cloud right. Aws and it uses purposeful movement trackingand essentially what it does is. It can tell if a patient' moving in apurposeful manner or an unsafe manner. The device changes colors kind of th,the red, yellow grends, to alert people as to whether or not there's a safetyissue, and then it also sends an alert to the nurse in the and the tax phoneto. Let them know that a patient is potentiall in an unsafe situation. Itcan also track O know w. You know who's in the room, how long someone's in theroom, those kind of things so they're able to run reports if Patiente, ifyou're on a unit- and you might have a high vap evaporate or a pressure elseto right, they can actually run reports that show how often carey diverse theycan break it out by nurses or pcts or CNAS have been in the room. So that'san amazing product, Jon Ovella out of Oregon. He actually designed anddeveloped a s, staffing and scheduling software nurse Grid. Hat's, absolutelyamazing. Tiffany Kelly. She developed an APP that can be used for givingreport that allows nurses to do it on their phone and have that informationin their pocket, but there's tons and tons of examples out there I mean Icould literally go on and give you probably another ten. You know thatnurse Crid thing is fascinating, because it's like my initial reactionis: do we really need another scheduling platform, so there must bedoing something really unique and different that create that value andcreate their own space in that category and, if he's been around for a coupleyears and he's a nurse, so it was designed from a nurse centric viewright and they have...

...tons and tons of users and it's sort ofschedule agnostic. So it actually incorporates different schedules intoit and it allows you to look at your view very differently and you cancommunicate it and share it with friends and family and stuff. So there's some really amazing stuff that nurses have done, that that are outthere, and I see that as continually growing. So I love to talk about thatand help nurses who have an idea in their head Yep, get it out and developa business plan m absolutely so so you recently left the American nurs anassociation like Pat off the press. I think, just as of this week that pressrelease went out. Yes, that's right. I just left so Wednesday was my last day.That's right so tell us a little bit about what you're doing next and how that's exciting for you yeah, it'sreal bitter sweet. I mean the American Nurses Association's a Great GratOrganization, they've been around for twenty five years. Doing really amazingstuff. I'm Super Super Honord to have been the first vice presidentinnovation. I created the role I created the innovation framework forthem I developed, what's called Nurse Pitch, which we've done three of thosevery successfully have developed their innovation lab platform. That's been ablast Ao. It became apparent to me that I really really get excited by thisinnovation stuff. So as I started to build relationships with tech companiesacross the country, kind of develop some really good relationships to thepoint of saying hey. What could we do here with this company? And how mightwe really leverage this skill set so that we could make a difference at trueimpact of patients and nurses with this particular product? So as of next week,I ill be working with Wombi, which is a patient engagement and a staffing kindof a nursing recognition platform, and...

...it's powered on gratitude. So never ina million years would I have thought that I would have left the job to workfor a tech company except this company is incredibly unique and it doesn'twork based on Sharin data and pushing hard on people who are performing, butrather it works by Patiente in their families, showing gratitude andrecognizing their caregivers and then through a gameiffied approach in thedashboard. People want to compete to be in the top couple of places, so itreally helps to bring everyone up instead of pushing on those that aren'tperforming well, because we all know that has kind of an a curmy feel to itright right. But when you have people that are wanting to compete and benumber one, that's a whole lot more fun. So that's the approach and I'm reallyexcited about shifting to that company next week. That's awesome! So, what'sgoing to be your role yeah, so I'm going to be the chief clinical officer,you know really focusing a lot on thought: leadership, clinical,Innovation, strategic partners to obviously to help grow the company, butalso make sure that we're making an impact in the lives of nurses andpatience. So that's important. So so your personal mission and cause hasn'tchanged. One bid has't changed one bit well and of course, I would say I'mputting in a plug here, but I am going to be speaking and already I'm gettingemails from people that are very, very interested in having me come in andspeak for their events and things of that nature even doing workshops oninnovation. So I think there's so much out there that we can continue to dofor nurses. THAT'S AWESOME BOT! Congratulations on your new role! Ilook forward to seeing all that you're going to do for that company goingforward. Excellent thanks and we have a book coming out. In August the nursesgot NTO innovation, so that's going to be pretty cool and that's kind of aculmination there are eight of us. Thet are authors on that and they are themost common questions that I evver...

...seened as I've traveled around thecountry in the last two years from nurses around building a business plan.How do I become an innovator? How do I write a business plan? How do I securefunding? How do I protect my intellectual property, which is youknow, is a huge problem and you know how do I engage nurses in my hospitalin my department, my unit, so we can solve problems more collaboratively.How do I use design thinking so we wrote a book on it, so that's prettycool! That's coming out soon. That's great you'll have to let me know whenit's ready and IILL help promote it for you, wonderful, thank you. So so one ofthe last questions that I have for you is, you know we talk about. We talk alot about like patient adoption and physician adoption. So what, from yourperspective, what are some of the strategies that you would recommend forhealth, innovative listeners who are launching innovations and they arestruggling with nurse adoption? So I think there are a couple of ways.First, make sure you get input right, it's hard to solve a problem and thinkthat you have thes solution when you haven't defined the problem accurately.So I would say start up. FRODS ask nurses for their input, their feedbackthereare ways to do focus, groups theyare, expensive ways. You can dofocus groups if you're a big, well funded organization, or there probablyare cheaper ways that you could do. Focus groups pay attention to what's going on insocial media. There are. There are some of US nurse influencers that are reallypretty active, so I have people reach out to me probably a hundred times aweek that ask me if I can connect them with somebody or do they know someoneelse, that's working on this or something so I try to matchmake as bestI can. I try to answer questions as best I can or send those whot areinquiring. I send them to others to kind of find some solutions. OTHAT'sreally one way to do it through social media. Look at the NOBC dot, Org site,that's another way to tryget input on...

...your advisory Boards in your boards,and then I would say just stay really really close to the ground and what'sgoing on and what's contemporary and nursing practice and the best ways todo some of those things are looking at the conferences going on or what'sbeing you know, written when you do kind of a Google word aload orsomething you'll find out. What's going on with that particular topic or idea,sure that's great. So that leads me to my last and final question for today ishow can people get a hold of you if yeah with you what's the best way, soI'm very active on social? So I love I'm. Actually, I think the top two orthree an number nurse influence on Linkdon, so I had a linke in profilefeel free to connect. I really do correspond with people pretty regularly.I'm also pretty active on twitter, so I'm at thought leader, rn on twitterand then I'm just starting to get into Instagram, because I love just theability to be very visual and have people respond to that so new to thatplatform. But that's getting to be a blast so far and on that one I'm ArenInnov and the number eight eit are an innovate. Letsgo there's some reallycool ways to reach me that are out there and if people want to find me andthey look hard enough through my litin profile, they'll actually get my emailas well dig deep right at awesome. Well, thank you so much forsharing your wisdom today with our listeners. I really appreciate it yeahthat it's been awesome thanks. So much. Thank you. What's the difference between waunchingand commercializing, a health care novation many people will watch a newproduct. Few will commercialize it to learn the difference between watchand commercialization and to watch past episodes of the show head to our videoshow page at Dr Roxycom. Thank so much for watching and listening to the showyou can subscribe to the latest episodes on your favorite podcast, APPlike apple podcasts and spotify, or...

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