Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 1 year ago

Not every pivot is a bad pivot w/ Ruchin Kansal


The COVID-19 pandemic has affected how healthcare business is done. 

But there are constants that never change: a patient (person) who needs care and the whole healthcare system that is (hopefully) designed to take care of the patient in the best fashion.

Pre-pandemic healthcare saw quite a bit of disruption from outsiders who saw opportunities to disrupt the system, as-is, and technologies looking to bring in new efficiencies.

Opportunities might arise, and pivots might be necessary - and lucrative - if you keep an open mind and remain pragmatic.

In today’s episode, Ruchin Kansal shares his thoughts on the changing dynamics of how healthcare does business in a post-COVID landscape.

Ruchin brings his experience with pivots - both personal and professional - to life for our listeners. He pairs his knowledge with humor and an abundance of tips and insights on the changing face of healthcare and the opportunities these changes bring to the table.


Here are the show highlights:

  • This is how the pandemic is affecting innovation and healthcare (2:50)
  • The COVID crisis has disrupted the status-quo way of thinking about how healthcare is done in the United States (4:55)
  • Breaking long-standing barriers in telemedicine (5:05)
  • The CEOs of today are the kings of the past: Why leadership might be the key to making changes stick (5:38)
  • This is the new normal in healthcare (6:52)
  • Do you have to pivot your whole business? Heck no! (8:48)
  • Don’t be afraid to leave what was - but do your due diligence (12:50)
  • Not every pivot is a bad pivot (and you don’t need to pivot everything!) (15:55)
  • The “Unicorn Business” and adjusting commercial models (16:49)


Guest Bio

Ruchin Kansal is the Founder of Kansal & Company, a consulting firm that coaches transformative leaders and companies in the art of how to find new markets and co-create with investors and entrepreneurs so they can build a better future of healthcare. 

Finding “new markets” is old school for Ruchin who is an airforce pilot turned architect turned MBA - he is no stranger to the term “pivot.”

Ruchin earned his MBA in Finance and Information Systems from the NYU Stern School of Business and is using his experience and expertise to help others in the business world reach their full potential.

In addition to his decades-long career in the industry and his work with Kansal & Company, Ruchin is also co-author of the book Redefining Innovation: Embracing the 80-80 Rule to Ignite Growth in the Biopharmaceutical Industry, which examines the evolution of the biopharmaceutical industry and defines a potential pathway for transforming the industry’s business model via the 80-80 Rule - "Being 80% confident that you will only be 80% right the first time should feel normal."

If you want to reach out to Ruchin to learn more about how Kansal & Company might help you, or to simply ask questions, you can reach him at, on the Kansal & Company website at or on linked in at Ruchin Kansal.


Welcome to Coiq, where you learn howhealth innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy,founder of legacy, DNA and International Beth selling author ofhow health innovators maximize market success through handed conversationswith health innovators earlier doctors and influencers you'll learn how tobring your innovation from idea to start up to market domination, and now,let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq, welcome back to Youiq listeners.Today we have Ruchan Canzel with us, he's the founder of Cansel, consultingwelcome to the show rusion and gous so much worr. Having me it's great to haveyou here, so I always like to start off with having you tell our listeners andour viewers a little bit about you and your background and what you're up tothese days? Oh, that's a loted questions, ngone through a few pivitsin my life, I started out as if a spilot who became an architect whodecided you know it's not enough to pay my bills. So I gut my NBA and then you know just got into matchmemconsulting and Helt care by chance, and then I spent almost ten plus years inMyational. Consulting first with the UNSTANDOUNG Cagemini and then MDILO, itfocused on health care and advising farmer comies globally, either onlaunching companies in different markets and or Proth strategy.commencial, modern transformation, market acestmwishmen in all the goodstuff, and then you know decided to move on tothe lightes side or the darker side, depending on your the audiencees into the industry itself. First, as person in charge to think through thewhole innovation and transformation of the bifamis to ble industry, which wasmy Ronin put, and every inel him really helping the company get ready to figure out how it can drim in relevantin the future. And after that I was thisinin. WICEpresident for digital services at Semo, Selti eers and the the rold was again aboutthinking in terms of how we can launch digitalproducts and services to enable the future of filcare somewhere in between.I ended up rigting my first book with my coarther, and it is calledredefending innovation and it really looks at how the industry, theheadcrrendustry can really. You know redefine itself, to become lot betterfor the patient and talks about how it can get there and right now you know bring cancilting of my own working withhealthcare companies on thei renovation and transfermation road maps, and alsocoaching leaders on how to really embricechange you've got a very depth, broad and depth deepbackground love been privilous for sure. Thank you for that. Yeah. Absolutelycongratulations on the book. I can't wait to get my copy in the mail or itshould' gland. Next week sometime, I recordit from a missen perfect, so you mentioned something that just isso poignant for this particular moment in time. You talked about you know,helping organizations figure out how they can be relevant in the future, and you knowI think that that is a phenomenon that is, you know important all day everyday for a business, no matter what the climate is, but wow, isn't it even more poignant today during this globalpandemic and where I think a lot of...

...companies are evaluating their relevancy in the newmarket? Where you know cut, you know, prospects and customer needs havechanged and priorities have changed. How do how do you think that you knowthis pandemic is affecting innovation and health care? So let's first talk about. What'sconstant about healthcare right, so what's constant about health care isthere is a patient, a person who needs to be taken care of, and then there isthe whole healthar system that is hopefully designed to take are of thepatient in the best fashion and it's not about the system. But it's aboutthe patient etclust in the US a I think we have become more a business of felt cart anbeing in the business of solving for dicopretations, and you know, even before the Pandomic, we wereseeing quite a bit of external descruption that had startedto happen either from outsideers who saw a big opportunity in health care toreally distrub the system, as is Ando Technology. COMNY is looking to bringin more efficiency at CEPARATE ECRA, and I think what the pandemic has doneh. It has really number one distrupet the objection that Heltcar cannot change,because it is what it is, and this is how it is done right. I mean thingslike telly medicin was you know you can't really do tely medicine, but nowwou're dreaking diris to go telemedison werphysicians wernot allowed topractice beyond state boumpies. Now there doing that right. So whendirgencycame we proke the Bagit s always said we cannot pray and we areactually embracing new wigs of delivering care. So I think you know, that is a good thingand it will continue to really evole even beyond the current situation andthen exlarate some of the change, but not going back to you, know,Willicraly, stick. That is a different question right and an there. I think itcomes to poleadiership and how the leadership limrise this change. Ialways say the Seeos of today the things of the past, and I love that Anyou know it's not that we don't wantto change, and it's not that we don't want to do the right thing, and it'snot that you know we don't see what the future could be, but number one as individuals we are. Wehave Lisser prins right. Taven Stil tells us that Ye Isar brains, we wantto mention the state OS SCO more than we want to embrace change, and once we celd beyon this crisis and thenthis whole idea of innovation, we may most likely fall back intolet tobusiness the were we have always done it and we may survive with that forsome time, but it is also an optunity to really say hey. We can and we can survive, but maybe wecan do things differently now and to do that, I thin we first need toas leaders think about what Sari stape right forchange. Ten Wegilliam rasins. Can we really drive change and t end? I thinkyou know that ill be the key factor, because the rational partyis easy theyare wat as difficult. Absolutely, I think that there are so many people, so many leaders thatare you know whether we're going throughwhether we're in denial still but still going through this grieving process anda lot of ways of what was- and you know, I think some people,let's just say even a few weeks ago, were like you know, just waiting forthis to get over, so they could get back to how things were, and I don't think that's going to happen. Ithink things are going to be different.

We'll have a new normal. We, yes, I mean we should have a newnormal, it's not that we will have it innom. We should have any normal and Ithink we should really embrade pase, that opportunately to create the newnormal yeah yeah, and then we can do that in a very planed frational wayright and we need to assess how much risk we can take. We need toassess what investments we can make, but we do need to think about what dowe need to do today right now to take care of our povit patience, and youknow the electives. We do doything about what we need to do to keep thebusiness going in the midterm, but then we also need to fiter up all thelessons we able to learn in this complished period of time and figureout how we really Staro create that future little bit longer terms teyfecally, begin to lay it out in a plant manner and and make planned investmentsto get there. I think hey'll be foolish, not reallyembrace this, because I tell you there are people who are going to envase thisand hen just start to really do things differently and for the intemment, whodon't I mean, dayvil survive, but for howlong? I don't know yeah yeah, absolutely. You know we talke a lotabout on the show, at least over the last, probably seven or eight weeksabout pivots, and you know everybody kind of has their own pivot story,that's unique to them, and you know. Would I hear you saying from you knowsome of our previous conversations and even what you're saying now is that youknow for any organization to really have a successful pivot strategy. Itreally starts with the leadership pivot at the top and and that mindset changetalk a little bit about that. What do we need to see happen withleaders? You know as a whole yeah. So again it comes down to number one realizing that pivits can be good thing now. A pivotdoesn't have to be Pavite of everything that we do. Itcould be a piit of few other things that it would rite. For example, inFarmum we might be thinking of a quivet of the sales ports today, right n and aever, we have had people going polimen optis, but they're, not pelling them onthem now in person, and maybe we will be within good digitual promotialModeel. Finally, so the number one is as people we need to realize that ivitsare possible. Number two pivits don't mean that we have to change everythingthat we do today, number three, that pavites can actuallye better financial results, better cestimmar interactions and better empyengagement, yeah, and it can keep those three things in mind and we can really,you know, be conscious about in our minds what the barriers to re achievingthat and how we can prevent ourselves from falling back into the same oldbehaviors. We can achieve that new future andt and I think that's whereyou know this whole idea of being conscience about what you reallyare and what you're thinking and what you want to do: Freally finding the Tru purpose, notjust of yourself but your organizations and yourself, and how Theyr, alianceand really alliing the purpose of full organization behind it becomes moreimportant because change is not easy. Tivit is not easy and if you're notaliged to that vision and purpose, Tif Youl say so. You know what it reminds me of thisbook that I read years ago, Gosh a long time ago called who moved my cheeseright, cordor C him and Ham right. My Gosh, I feel like I'm dusting offthe COBWEBS here yeah. It is true. I mean I think it's alsoyouknow as go ma sure and as we...

...look fough things over time, we alsostartto a a lage that you know it is good to reflect and do thing. purposnally, yeah and- and you know part of thatreflection- also eels. The fact that you know, maybewhat weare doing today is not right. I mean Love Times hoefully, it is right,but sometimes we and then we may discover that there is o on who maymove our cheese. If you don't again talking of healthcare yeah I mean Iknow China is a Boobu right now. Nobody wants to talk about China, but one thing that they did even beforethe pandemic hit was they really started to enbrace Thei digitualhealther model Inan com Tis like Al Babaten cent rightand they because they did not have infraep Surthat they pould depend on so when they started to build, they built a digitalfirst partof yeah and it works. I mean Pingan has aboutseven hundred millions of the pribers versus UN, a million that emison hasand they're providing them all kind of servicees SOE it works. We are tring tobuild that now we put Youo from that and built abetter system. So why not yeah yeah absolutely well, and I think thatthat's some you know I hear a couple of lessons in what you're saying here isone don't be afraid to leave. What was because somen, you know, what'what's inCordor, C or cord or m right around the corner is, you know, can be a whole lotmore cheese. It can be a lot better, so for whatever good, we thought we had it.You know who knows. What's on the other side of that? The other thing that I hear you sayingis that you know as health as entrepreneurs and innovators. I thinkwe have a tendency to move fast and in a lot of ways, there's a lot of valueto that right. It helps us get to market fast and maybe Ou surp thecompetition and and have a vision for what the future could be. But I alsohear you saying that there's some benefit in slowing down pausing for amoment in really taking the time doing due diligence to reflect ye H, itdoesn't always have to be go. Go, go, go, go right because that may not be al.basical and frankly, you know the fact that some of these businesses have doneso well. For so long means there is something that works right yeah. Wejust saying that on no throt of everything out of the window and wejust Geen to priyeit and we just need to move mo move, but that's so righteither right right, so we need to be Tamaket. We need to have the right tase,but we also need to realize this that we need to be moving forward again. Younume, you talked about taking risk and maybe Calit oer s, maybe better thanColit. Oroun. Again analyzed set this in my introduction, but just by personal favits in life right.So I was an actet right and I was doing fine. I was buildingcheaters they're still standing. I had a secure job and one day Ideshadit I'm just GOINGNA leave that and get my Mba and not doing anythingabout NDA or banking, or consulting what everything that people know about.Whyn they go to do an NBA yeah as a riferent Pat, had I not not telling TaHada not taken thei tress Kade, not taking that step back and taken alonewould, as still be employed as an Achetet, absolutely woul. I still bebuilding things absolutely what I have really know achieved to say: income, so forencialreters that Tenis look for probably not Yem. I pick that cris experimented to it pance. I turned outto be lot better at a lot more privilegein than all now that ill also o take more risksand Mor tivits. So it's scary, it's I can tell you ofhow scare it was for me. How is Garit...

...was for my wife was caring, Fas for myfamily, that I'm leaving a job and taking Grande Tran Lone but utimatelyit's Algud. So sometimes you just have to pay culculated risks, fo the andtake that chance, and not every Pivit Isabaut e well, and so I think that'sanother lesson right. So not every pivot is a bad pivot, but noteverything needs you. Don T don't need to pivot everything, and I think that'sa point with worth emphasizing to you know. I think what I advocate foris that as leaders as business owners, we all need to sit down and at leastanalyze that if we end up through a very thorough analysis and going youknow what my business model works really well, there's there's no newopportunities in the the changing market conditions and there's nothing.We need to change. That's fine right! You don't have to be always. You knowin the process of Gogo, go in Sinsha yeah, but yeah, then it mids, ense, heyit's Dr Roxy. Here with a quick break from the conversation. Are you tryingto figure out what moves you need to make to survive and thribe in the newcovid economy? I want every health innovator to find their most viable andprofitable Tivit Strategis, which is why I created the covid proof, yourbusiness to the kid. The pipot kit is a step by step framework that helps youfind your best tivid strategy. It walks you through six categories. You need toexamine for a three hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I callthem the six critical pivot linses, as you make your way through thiscomprehensive kid, you'll be armed with the tools, chips and strategies youneed to make sure you can pivot with speed without missing out on criticaldetails and opportunities, learn more at legacy: Hythan DNACOM, Backsla Kit.So let's talk about something else that you mentioned: Sales Pivot Right, so Biofarma,Specialty Pharmacy Med device can just probably rattle off a whole laundry ofof you know. Companies that had traditionally relied on face to faceoutside sales teams and really in a lot of ways haven'tembraced social selling to the degree that a lot of other industries and alot of other sectors have and- and so I think, a lot of those entities are abit still in shock. What do you? What do you see happening? Yeah I mean, Ithink again, like many of the things the writing has always been on theworol, at least for last seven o ten years that the commercial modele,especially the bio, Hama commercial model, which was based upon O, see,step calling on to the top, was not effective right. However, given that business model is so good and so profitable, I mean inour boof, we talk about it as the Unicorn business model. Writing Oninthis treet, even though the writing has been on thewall, people have been hesitant to really get away from it Rit, and eventhough there have been some cuts, nobody really cave out on atendindustry is really about. You know I'll move last, not I'll move. First, when I can't when I can't stay where Iam exactly and and so everyone has be invented inthose sales forces and now that, for the last two months,everybonedy has been sitting at home and doing video calls when possible andnot not even that, with a stockton't have time people are passing portionoff. What do we do with this sales? FERS Anrimein, nothing about the salesforce of the sales people right. I'm not talking about that. I'm justtalking about the model here, yeah,...

...but but people are really stretchingtheir head and I've been daling to think about. How can they eitherrethink the value of their? You know, talent that sits in their sales forces and a think about you know retratingthem to sell virtually and or think about. You know how else they canreally. You know help with the promosed model, so this is hypathetical for a minute, but- and this you know, is something thathad come up when I was geting geneation Grup at Boringe, we were working quite a bit withinsurance companies and we had theseyou know s trangic partnerships and it'sall in news media. So I'm not shaid anything,that's not in the Public Ra real, but we ar his partnerships- and youknow through these partnerships one of the questions that came up os as we gotinto valubased care insurance companies were really trying to call on doctorsto help them figure out how to provide Venu basted care right, how God yo thermetric yeawill they'e been well bist here, but they never had folen doctors, armer compines had always called anOctos, so we knew how to call em doctors.sovene of the conversations that happened was. Can a farmer companyactually become a trainer for Insurance? Companies says to how to Holl anddoctors? Ah, so you know there are ways to reallythink about. How do you, you redemploy the talent that you have as sinse of changing and, like I saidin this case really ssss. If the person to person sales model is somethingthat's gin to survive the pandament, because most likely with everyonesaying, don't see M in person, it been ot and after sometime peoplehave you know, people gettig used to bring things in a setind way after sometime, and so then yeah on so woul think about what? How onewhat do you do withthis talent? An number to you know: how Do you develop these social selling skills anddigital selling skills? ANCEPRATECTRA, I mean I flee for the sale sources.Yeah Ut. Really we are. We are at the point right now like overnight right, Ian from their perspective the conversations that I'm having is likewhat the hell happened. If I wuld I te Shos sitting right now,I'll be like O strit right iing but telnihand. They I hard and Sol intoit. Just like you know many atuts airline pilots. You know Fli Eyan yeaha lot of those jobs. Donot come back, so we kind of have this. What I wouldcall traditional outside sales model and then you've got this virtual salesmodel. What are some of the things that you think haven't changed like reallylike? Fundamentally, you know whether you're selling face to face or whetheryou're selling online, these things haven't changed, and then what are someof the things that you think definitely have changed right. So I think what hasnot changed is the neat for convinged information and then ecoming it in a roberst fashion, which issacfically as cew tend centificlly prost right, so that has not changed.Doctors do need to learn about products and services and thenyeah, so that Pece has not changed. What has changed on ischanging is howyou can read that information m right and yeah. So that's one number two, the need for demonstration right so as let's thinkof medical device, sor of egoow...

Damastics companies that make a stickcanner or you know something like instrument that is used in a surjeryyouor whatever. So they need to demonstrate how it works. They need totrain the need to you know really installit defroid bintaned. That hasnot changed against not hus now. But how do you do that? It may right, because some of thoseises may be possible to do without the need, foryou know, person to person interaction, so I think breaking down whatare he selling and how are youselling it and what pieces of thesals proces still need to be physical andwhat telb done more, virtually bigitally et cetatesurprising ther'll, be a good way to really figure out how you begin toreassess and Redetroy Yeah Yeah. Absolutely so you know. I think that fundamentally, sales isabout relationships right and it's about meeting unmet needs and thathasn't changed right but, like you said how we go about that,a lot of the tactics have changed. One of the things that see that I'mstarting to observe over these last couple of weeks is, it almost seems like there's a littlebit more of like the social media engagement and the virtual selling.That is illuminating more publicly what the sales reps were doing M so, likemaybe on the face to face model. I really didn't have exposure, except fordid you make the sale? Did you close the deal? You know like number ofvisits and en come a number of sales, whereas it seems as though, when we'retaking some of those strategies and tactics to the digital realm thatthere's a little bit more public view of what's happening, and I think thatsome of the gaps in the strategy, knowhow or tactics is being illuminatedwhere maybe there would have been some assumptions around reps understanding that you know I'm takingsomeone through a journey and I'm going to provide certain value up frontbefore I ask for the sale and then you see that happening, digitally andthey're skipping. The first fifn steps of courting EHI meanik you've been a very vellipfulter. You know the classic definition of sales hasorder. You know sales success has been defined by the strength of therelationship yeah now you're abtulally. We write in avorsal model where ther Wasnin e preexisting relationship like if therewas an existint relationship yeu could still potentially maintain it thattrust factor. That comes because we are humans, but inavertual model. You knowthe whole idea of how do you create a relationship and how do you createtrust? Is the question that you really need toask if you agree that sales is really about rating thei crust yeah that preasto sale? In fact, you know few weeks ago I had achance to speak to the students hat Siaton Hall, the Leadership Institute,and we talked about this exact thing more from a leadership perspective and-and the thing we talked about is if fleadership is about creating trust.How do you create trust in a virtual environment, because in a physicalenvironment people see you, people see how you act, people see how youempathize Ao, you commicate and deceive Yo as a person in person. I doesn'thappen in a WORCH RE world. So how do you become a leader in a virtul worldand and after a lot of distition, where...

...we land it was it's not that different? It is still about being genuine. It's still aboutcommunicating. It's still about the touch points, it's still about beinganbathetic about what the other person is trying to say and do, and- and you know it's about respondingjust in different ways. So El, yes, I mean Ia, it is going to be an adjustment, but you cancreate those relationships virtually and end that setthing we should try todo yeah. Absolutely. I think you know communicating whether it'sthrough video, you know personalized video messages,video content, value, videos having that type of vulnerability andtransparency. You know, I think that you know if you and I were sitting faceto face part of the way that we would deepen our relationship is, we wouldtell stories. is we would be honest about different things in our life? I'mnot going to sit down with you and I'm not going to tell you all the skeletonsin my closet on our first conversation right, but but I'm also not going to act likeI'm perfect and I'm going to be real and just kind of share my life with you not justthe business aspect, but just as a human being, and I think that you know-maybe that's one of the barriers that we need to break as as we move towardsmore virtual selling, is to you know to not have to be so perfectand so polished and that you know, for whoever has the courage to betransparent and to be vulnerable. I think that that's a pretty strong salestrategy is and look at it. This war as well right- and I maybe right now in the skill, tep rightand I'm feeling like I'm not able to and let's sae you ar the top for aminute- and I might be feeling hey, I'm not in the PABS office and not in o hisoffice right now and you know Mo awe to peak with the face to face and how willI build a relationship, but you has tout some everythinging, this poor guyhe's sitting there in front of his zoom camera and unolity Ar somemtety with meyeah. It's not that you know we are the Bors wfore realy falling down the choleworld is interesting, so just no so we should have faith and everyone weshould trust. You know that the other person, also in general, has the goodof the world an know how their hearts ar end thei understand and Theyrpothisile as well an enyonow. They know what our Valius are and if we can solve their neets, which arwe can, we will bill prussed and we will build in built. Empathy and Teligo long way. Yeah yeah well- and you know, I think, to your point: that'sone of the things that makes this particular season so unique that I think than from any of ushave experienced in the past. Is that not even just in the US, but reallyalmost around the world like tha, we are all experiencing the pandemic indifferent ways, but there is definitely a sense of unity and solidarity becausewe are all experiencing this pandemic and some former fashion. So I think that you're right, you knowit's not just one company, it's not just you know this sales team or thesephysicians, it's all of us, so that that empathy makes a lot a lotof sense and it seems like it makes it a little bit easier to be vulnerableand empathetic right right, yeah, I mean absolutely, I just cant hadanything ingo to that pesei perfectly yeah yeah. So what are you know when we think aboutthe tactics? Do you have any any lessons learned or any recommendationsof any specific tactics that you think you know our listeners could could heed as they are transitioninginto this? You know virtual sales pivot...

...things that they could try or that theyshould consider in in their new sales strategy and toqit yeah. So I mean,let's Zome, that the NEX is callege, going tobe virtual, Gon riht E sentresting to assume that for a minute. So there is a technique: QOL framingand reframing. That's out there and you know framing is Jus Ting of it. As you know,one perspective one view of the world and typically even that's how if we have aneseiter before or not thatwe have this opportunity to make coll on the doctor vitually we neer justwant to do the same thing, but te reframe could be that you know we aregoing to be honest, video and yes, Avter deay with this message, but ou,not the Tok may be feeling some of the anxieties and ar otherthings in life and yes, Anin youhave to remain. We within your regulatory andcompliance, a WORSO, but at the same time just weefy the situation thinkabout you know what ther needs might be at this time, and how else can I helpthem right? Because that may be? How you start to Prate Trustin tembetinrelationship in this case, so just frame and refrain in terms of what elsand how elses can I look at thes situation differently, and how else canI you know, add value in thes situation. Yeah it'll be different in every case,but I would say that is one thing all of us can easily do so. You know that is so importantbecause you know we know this to be true like intellectually. We all knowthat if you are going to be successful at sales, it's not going to be abouttelling it's not going to be about vomiting on someone and telling themall your features and functionality right, and we know that, but it still seems like that's a reallyhard habit to break and what you just noted is just the simple idea of askingsomeone what I would call a power question and- and you know, everybody's needshave changed so just starting off with. How can I help you exapt right, I' GNAhope? How can I help you yea and you, and you know you probably are going tolet's say that you're talking to that doctor every week you know you're notgoing to get on the phone with them going hey. How can I help you right andhin the next week? Hey? How can I help you right? Yeah? It's got to be, youknow natural and conversational, but I also think at the same time we canrephrase that and we can ask that in a different way, every few weeks, becausethings are so dynamic right now that how I help you right now might bedifferent than how I could help you in three weeks. Absolutely yeah. Absolutely like I said.Yes, you have to be very careful about the SPACI tinfarmer and you knowregulatat sales models about. You know that you don't step ou of bounds and dothing Cani help you with a trip to the Bahamas, ICAN bubut within that you know, even interms of firm, you know how you provide information and lot of yeah follow ofEtcetrand. There are things that can be done: Yeah, yeah, U Yep! Absolutely!And I think to the point that you're making too, is that: How can I help youcould be some just intangibles of like listening, Isan, empathizing and, andthat could maybe go along a long way. Then you know a piece of collateral. Imagine the doctors on the front linesand how panicted they are and the cost the percal cost of the impact on theirfamilies. When my wifef is a posician, she for t last eight weeks has beenliving in a separate part of the house because she does not want to expose mymyself for my son and think she might...

...bring from the hospital yeah and theirhuman beings really now, of course, Yeah S, Don' think of themas bias. Think about I a yeah riefly right exactly so you know we talked about theleadership pivot. We've talked about the sales pivot, you know. Is there anything else, anyother lessons learned or wisdom that you would want to share with ourviewers and listeners today. As you know, healthcare leaders, healthcareentrepreneurs- are trying to not navigate this new covid economy. Numberone don't be anxious right, reat, because right now, anxietyis something that we're all dealing with number two. The human race has come sofar. It still has a lot of distance to go so I will not. You know I will not for a minuteundermine my faith in human beings and their ability to survive and create,and in get over things, liber three just reflect and reflect, reconnect and think about. What's possible. LikeI said before, you don't have to go, go, go, go, go not here to change everything, but atthe same time there is enough opportunity right now that wecollectively can do things that will make healthiherbetter for all of us. So I woulntothat twice, I'm so glad that you said ittwice that we don't have to go. Go Go go, go not for our listeners, because Ineed to hear that over and over and over, because there'sso much more to do right now, there's you know so many more ways that we canhelp, and you know our strategies and our plans that we had laid out for youknow this. This quarter kind of was thrown out the window and now we'rerestrategizing and replanning everything, and so it's just I'm soglad that you said it twice, because I think it's just really good toreemphasize that yeah I mean take pause. It's all goingto be good big optunity, really yeah yeah. Well, thank you so much forsharing your wisdom with us today. How do our listeners get a hold of you ifthey want to follow up with you after the show yeah? So certainly you canemail me at richeld at consul Threcacom, I'm on Lindon Anderigion Council, myWebs Cile Cransullan company is consul trccom and the yeah. I look forward to reallyconnecting hearing from you. You rowcontering this conversation and you know. Hopefully we can do things together.Yes, that sounds great. Thank you. Thank you. So much. Thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and Ivalue your time and your attention to save kind and get the latest episodeson your mobile device automatically subscribe to the show on your favoritepodcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listeningand I appreciate everyone. WHO's been sharing. The show with friends andcolleagues, see you on the next episode of coiq.

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