Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 106 · 10 months ago

Sell small. Sell early. w/ Mayur Saxena

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Having a mission and vision are par for the course with healthcare entrepreneurs. We all want to change the face of healthcare in a positive way.

Staying focused on your mission while growing and scaling your startup, though, that’s where it can get tricky. It’s good to have a few tools in our toolboxes, like how to leverage sales functions in your startup.

Mayur Saxena can tell us all a thing or two about leveraging sales and growing a scalable startup - he’s done just that with his company Droice Labs.

In our latest episode, Mayur talks about key strategies he put into place that helped him bring 50 healthcare systems on board. And, come on, 50? That’s amazing for a healthcare innovation!

Come hear Mayur tell his story and dish a few insights - then take a trick or two back with you to add to your toolbox.

Here are the show highlights: 

  • Finding a path to better care programs (6:53)
  • It’s okay to be mission-driven and disruptive (12:07)
  • How being mission-focused can affect funding (19:43)
  • Why you should stay mission-focused but reality based(22:42)
  • The first function for startups is sales (29:54)
  • Dig deeper and find the value in negative conversations (31:33)  

Guest Bio 

Mayur Saxena is CEO of Droice Labs, a company that is dedicated to enabling personalized medicine at scale.

As both entrepreneur and scientist, Mayur spends his career concentrating on advancing medicine using high-noise/big data analysis.

In addition to occupying key roles in several startups, including co-founding a biotech firm in the diabetes space, Mayur earned his Ph.D. from Columbia University, focusing on the computational physics of disease.

If you’d like to contact Mayur directly, you can email him at mayur@droicelabs.com, or find him on LinkedIn at Mayur Saxena. If you’d like more information about Droice Labs, visit their website at DroiceLabs.com.

You're listening to health innovators, a podcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adopters who are shaping the future of healthcare. I'm your host, Dr Roxy Movie. Welcome back to the show health innovators. On today's episode I have my or Sexna with me, who is the CEO of Troy Slabs. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having us. It is so good to have you here. So I always like to start off the episode by you just sharing a little bit about your background and what you're innovating these days, just to give some context for today's conversation. Sure, as a background, I consider myself a scientist who happens to be an entrepreneur. Most recently, Education Wise, I finished my PhD work at Columbia University in the fair field of healthcare data science, right, like, working with different types of therapeutics and whatnot. I'm an engineer, right so, like I personally enjoy building things and buildings, not just engineering machines, but building, let's a organizations building, let's a team's building, people building, let's say, things that have an impact. Right. So that's how I look at things. For me, it's fun to be in healthcare. I'm a passionate healthcare individual. I think healthcare is something that will impact everyone and already is, like, you know, gain being more and more. It's a visibility in people's life and that's my personal, let's say, motivation. that. Okay, how can I improve health care wherever I am? I'm originally from India. Did Mind Agrad their transition through, let's a various countries to the US back in two thousand and twelve. have been here since then working in the field, developing some ventures, helping some ventures and now taking droys forward, nice and so hous. A little bit about Royce. So droyces a healthcare AI company. There is as a mission for the company. We look at it as if you want to match individual patients to interventions or therapies, drugs, right, any intervention that will work for them. Right. So we are matching AI company. If you think about medicine in general, right, like medicine is matching patients to things that work for them. Right. So in a lot of ways it's a very big mission. It's a big vision, right like that. Okay, you want to match every patient to the intervention that wild work for them, but some Mildi step process and we are on this journey. We started in two thousand and seventeen, two thousand and sixteen late in this part. Today, around forty people, right, like developing this serving let's say health systems or its hospitals, like providers of general type life sciences, companies, payers and government agencies across United States, Europe and Russia. I mean this sounds like an incredible dream. How close are we are you? I say we HA. How closed are you to making this a reality? Yeah, and I think like not just as right, like guiding a whole health care community as a whole is working towards this mission. We see it as a as a very let's a technical approach to it and like making a technology agent come into this makes to accelerate this exponentiary. Right, it's how we see it. But if you look at it like overall, what is happening is that most of the times, like if I have to personalize the care for any individual, right, like any individual, I obviously have to work with this individual's information. Okay, if Mau is that individual, what did Maure eat? Right, what happened to me? You, like in the past, like, let's say you know, like responses. What happened to their let's a treatment response that they were on this drug, how did the disease progress? All these different things. Right. So the way we look at it is that, like a somebody, some technology or some platform has to consume this information about the individual from all over, make sense of it and surface it. Okay, this is where...

...this person's disease is going. Can you intervene? Right. So it's a multifacted problem. We are at this like in a stage where we are doing this across language, across systems, helping these physicians, helping these clinicians take these decisions. We don't see it as like, you know, an ai which will just do this on its own. We see it as a hybrid of like very smart individuals, doctors who are already serving patients, and then technology enable them to make that happen. So, so this sounds incredible. One of the things that we know is that, you know, health care as a whole has been struggling for years to to aggregate data for number of reasons. So what are you guys doing? Differently, that's helping you get access to this multisource data. That's going to be so important in the foundation for what you try to accomplish. Yeah, I see right. Thinking the future is, you know, like where every individual has their genome, their proteome. They're like, you know, the basic every they all the things that have happened to them, their diet history, all of that aggregated, and intelligence systems on that system, analyzing it and guiding the right people to dispense better care. Right, that's there. But if you look at like the history of health care, health care is a, you know, make one of those dusty fields, right, like we work with regulation. It's a field that is moving at its own base for good reason, right, like you can't, you can't move fast and break things in healthcare, right, because they are not things, they are people. So the way we look at this is that, like postal thousand tends, especially in the United States, right like after the High Tech Act and the adoption of Emr's, massive amounts of, let's say, information has been captured at these health systems about patients, diseases, patients, progressions, patients making, various things that are happening there. Yeah, the problem is that, like, most of this data was never collected to do personalization of care, right, it was actually be collected for more administrative purposes. Now here comes in roys that the thesis is, okay, in the future will have all this data all organized and collected for everyone, but in the meantime, in the ten fifteen years, when the years that are left in between, can we transform the data from as is, you know, situation and utilize that to enable better decisions today, right like, in this like period. That's the core thesis from a data standpoint that we are trying to get to and to do that right like. That's a very like in a lot of is a AI problem, because you can read a lot of this data, you can understand a lot of the data across languages, across systems, across like, you know, massive therapeutic areas that are just not understood and make that happen. So that's like how we are looking at it's a different approach and therefore a different technology there for a different stack. Right so the way what we are doing in a some reason, like you're supplying a new les, a care personalization stack to the market which can be leveraged by health systems, payers life sciences to personalize the care of the people, to get better outcomes to dispense better care, which we think fundamentally, is the future of health care very exciting. So where are you in this innovation process now in Lick? Just to give an idea, like we work with, like, I think, over fifty health systems across the globe, where we are like, you know, helping them dispense the scare you worcome with major life sciences companies which are using this to design better therapies, to understand various disease populations develop better. Let's say, you know, intervention protocols and it's used by Government Agency, Right, Rama state government, and I want to understand. Okay, what exactly is my disease burden? What are the various, let's a heart failure populations? What is happening to them? Can I do, you know, come in and design a better care program can procure better drugs? Can I procure better interventions? So this is where we are. It's like, as I said, write, I gets a massive we the way the KPI is dryce look sad, is like number of patients we are going through right. So that's...

...like one major thing impact right for us as a big deal, and that's like in tens of millions of patients today as a tiny little company, right like that, as we started, it stends a million of patients of data watch, we have gone through and impacted the care of today, right, and that's like and we are like a cities, a stage company, which is like moving forward in that renations. Yeah, well, that's what I want to know, I mean, and I know our audience wants to know it is, is, how did you get to this point? Right, so you're you are really doing something that's very revolutionary that a lot of people have probably dreamed of and haven't been able to kind of figure out the recipe for success yet. And and so you're an early stage company and you've already got, you know, like you said, fifty plus hospital systems around the world that are using the platform. So how are you getting those early adopters and how are you getting people to grasp the potential of this very revolutionary in invention? Yeah, I think the good thing about ultill you like how we started with the founding story and where they are why we went this route, right like. So, this was like two thousand and sixteen, two thousand and seventeen, when I was still finishing my PhD, right, like, and I was actually part of a pharmaceutical start right, like, where we were commercializing a therapy. Right. So I was working with like, you know, physicians, rows like various health care stakeholders and setting up like clinical trials and whatnot across different countries. Right. So that's like, that was the whole thing and that's when we saw that actually, if you look at like diabetes, right, like diabetes or, let's a heart failure, they are not a disease, they are a whole spectrum of conditions of its own. Right. So, no, too, heart failure, patients, regular in all likelihood, are not the same. They actually a very different and that answer that what type of patient is this? What type of pasion is this? Is like, you know, unknown, right, so, like, and it's difficult for even a physician to decipher and immediately. Would like. So how do people handle it today? Right, like. So people are handling it by massive, let's say, service PIPEMY. Right, so, like a whole outsourcing ag is. Your people will go through it manually, right, like something they will do, and we all know, right, like how, let's say, pressureize healthcare systems are. There's barely anything they can do right for the whole population. If you have to do it manually, right it? So at the end it nothing happens right to you end up, like, you know, serving generic care in a lot of cases, which is bad for the patient and then bad for the outcomes and bad for the whole health care community as a whole. Right. So so we came up a look at it. Can we to immediately ran to like, you know, colleagues at Columbia, right like, and a new professors at my us that whatnot? Can We build a technology? Can We build a technology that can do this? Right, can? It can basically suck in these various forms of patient data and then on the other side, says, from a you switch him from Sanofi's drag to this care program and that will be better, or so shamed for to the sort of used rather right like, and that will be better for this outcome. So that was the whole like thesis. And immediately you were like, okay, yeah, you can do this, it can be done. It's a very difficult problem to solve, it can be done. Yeah, you have a lot of data, right, so, like I's, you can, you know, utilize this diversity of disease, right, like it ads for an advantage. So that came this okay, like, you know, we are entrepreneurs. We have, let's say, others, at immigrants, right like. So you're like, okay, yeah, let's, you know, talk to everyone. So to your core question, right, like okay, how do we convince these people at this stage and they do make this happen? We showed them what is possible, Bi literally showing it to them. That a way we can take this daytime and this is what we can do. I can tell you for this heart failure patient, they are going to have blah, Blah Blah event in the next few months and this, say, is why they will get there. I immediately the ansistors are we need this, right, like we want to understand. Is the government, it is you'r. We want to understand this how life science has come to you want to understand this,...

...right. Can you actually transform this data in two thousand and sixteen to in the current gain? This field did not exist. We we did not believe that this data can actually be used, right for clinical purposes. So that's the viewer will like Fu okay, no, you can be done. It is a proof. Can you work together. So that was the convincing exercise, which was based on real, tangible proofs coming out of this information which, you know, the way you describe it it, you make it seemed so easy, but it's not. I mean, even when you're working in a market that the problem is very mature, you can still have challenges with convincing someone to choose your solution over someone else's. And what you're talking about, where there's the problem, is mature. People know that the problem is there, but they're not necessarily believe that there's a solution out there to solve it, and so being able to persuade them of that, I think, is just so powerful. And then being able to access those early adopters, because the folks that you're talking to, you know, if you've already gotten so many people to say yes, then that means that you've been able to find those early adopters, which is so critical. A lot of folks that I talk to and that we work with, they end up spending time, you know, trying to arm, twist and persuade all of these other potential customers that are the late adopters right, or the mainstream market, to like you need this, this is going to change it. Right, but they but they don't have any awareness of the need or it's not a problem that they're looking to solve right now. They're waiting to see when their competitors or their peers adopted before they make any, any movement on it. Right. So what you're describing is a lot of success in some of those early commercial milestones. That, I think is just it's just really incredible and worth us, you know, even digging deeper into today. Thanks. I think the we got. For us it's a mission, right, like it's a mission, and that okay. We want to match every patient to, you know, things that will work for them. That's the mission for us. So and that is something which has helped us a lot. Right, like being mission driven. I'm not saying every startup should be mission driven, because it's perfectly fine to like look at it. I give we want to build something cool and I completely understand the value in that, right, but we happen to be mission driven, right. So, like for us it was like no, this is the mission. So we got on the way. Writing. A lot of it was, as you say, it was not easy. By any mean that it is not easy. It won't be easy moving forward either's change. Change is never easy, right, so it's very disruptive as well. It's like, how is this going to work and what is the how is this going to change things? What is it going to change? Is it going to change everything? And we learned that right like. So, when we started talking to doctors, which was like right, like a talking to a surgeon, I certainly like listen, like when I operate right, like I have my right hand at this angle, my left hand at this angle, and if they don't pass me this tool exactly at this point of time, it's not good. Okay, that's how specific they are about how they work, right, how they operate. And it's not just a surgeon, even like a primary care doctor, even like an urgent care doctor. They all operate in like a very, very, very specific process. How can you interject in this process and change it? Right like that's like okay. They're like, okay, listen, great that you can do this. Where is it? Where do I right, right, right, and learned about to is this going to be to my work? Forow, my work flooring works like the Golden Nugget, right, like that, and for good reason. Right. So, so that's those were and we didn't know when we started. We didn't know that, right, like, honestly speak, we had no idea, right, like, okay, is that is that how it is, right, like, and then we had to solve it, right. So, like then we had to like solve it. So for us it was the actually, but people are like, okay, like me, you will, you should not do this, right,...

...and I see reason in that. And like for us being mission driven. Well, like, but that's the measure, right, like we can't budge from that. And another thing it right, and it has become more clear in recent years. If you're in data, if you're an AI, if you're in health care, data and a I, it's a very, very hot space. Right. So your commercialization directions are infinite, right, indivor still in today's market. So if, for us, you get these opportunities, all ruther it. Can you also do this? Can you also do that? Can you commercialize this way? Can the commerciale that way for us and like, well, sorry, this is the mission. Right. So, which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Right, it keeps you on course and then you to your mind earlier adoptors on all these people are only. That's the mission. We have the same mission. I don't understand everything here. I can help you, I get but I can understand. I want to help. So dry actually was built a lot by people who just wanted to help. Write like people from the financial industry that I know this right explicitly, where like I have somebody in the team right, like who was we were interviewing and like we interviewed this individual first interview and he's like yeah, well, you know, like this was how much I charge. Is What he's very good right, like it is what a chat or not? And we're like, okay, fine, short like great, and interview ends and we are obviously in the whole interview process. He's in, like, you know, several interview processes of his own and then he messages us that. Listen, guys, like I looked it up right the post our interview. I looked at what you're trying to do, I understand, is forget everything else, I'll work for free, okay, and I want to do this. And this was like when you are four, five, six people, right, and you're like Oh, really, okay, so this is, this is and this is not one individual story, right, this is how a lot of people at drays are war and have been right. So mission. All right, so that's big to one answer for you, leg what kept has on course, at least so far, and what helpe that's leg do they extend me? Good by it pretty much naughty stores is commitment. Hey, it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves you need to make to survive and thrive in the new covid economy? I want every health innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivot strategy, which is why I created the covid proof your business pivot kit. The pivot kit is a step by step framework that helps you find your best pivot strategy. It walks you through six categories you need to examine for a three hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses. As you make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to make sure you can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details and opportunities. Learn more at legacy DNACOM backslash kit. What is one. What's a number one or one commercialization strategy that you think is just so critical to achieve success? Link for dry side in gender either both. Let's talk about let's Talk I think this is probably they you know, very obvious. But it's like solving a problem that is that people are aware of. Some talking about commercialization, right. So you can solve a problem that nobody's aware of, right, and like and you can solve it and solve very well, and that's great, right, but for commercialization you do solve problem that people are usually aware of. Right as a start. It is definitely a better strategy. It's a much longer journey when you're trying to educate the market at a problem that they don't know that they have. Or maybe your invent in arrested in solving exactly right. And now think of it from druces perspective. Royce a deep tech company. Right. So deep tech companies are fundamentally different from a typical SASS company, whereas ass companies like, I'm solving problem A and I'll solve it really well and I'll build...

...so much that for any individual I will not be able to build this much and it's much cheaper to just buy. Right. That's the basic commercialization back tack of a SASS Company. But as on this side, right, a deep tech company. You actually don't know individual problems. When you begin with radio. I want to match patients to interventions that would work for them. That's a massive problem, but it click, you know, manifests as several very, very, very small problems and you need to go in and, let you know, package the product into those like pieces. For the systems to actually get right, you have to move beyond the mission. That's right for droys like. Okay, that was the whole thing. That okay. Why did these people end up working with us? They start talking to us, to a tiny company of no ones, because of the mission and because of what we can potentially do. They started actually working with us because of we are solving those individual pieces of problem. That affected your I think that that's really important. So how is that affected your fundraising? With being able to have this big broad mission? Right, that just is super altruistic, right. I mean, who doesn't want to transform healthcare for the entire world? Right, who doesn't want to make sure that all patients around the world get the right treatment that they specific and personally need. Right. So you've got all these investors like yeah, okay, sounds great, but how right? And so I imagine as you're going through that journey, you're evolving your story. And how do you present that big, bold mission and then these very specific use cases that people are willing to buy? Now I think that's a that's a pretty important question, right, and as the CEO, let you take one of the most important questions for the size of impact we want to be it. So, see, in the very beginning, right, like it's still rightly, even within the investor spectrum, you have people who will Bet a vision, right, like who will bet, like, you know, the the mission, and it's all truely state, but it's also, like, quite important commercially, right for this industry. And if I can actually improve the care for these people at scale across geographies, across they stems, across like, you know, it infrastructures, that's a major commercial opportunity. Right. So, people, it's still for profit, mission, it's yeah, right. So, and like for I fundamentally believe in that. Right, like that, if you want to actually create sizeable impact, it will have to be driven by, let's say, largely commercial models, right, business models of bigree of that nature. It can't be that, will you know, like there are you have to and have to think about the business model, right. So so that's like a given as an entrepreneur and not just like as a signed as an underreners, like part and parts of the thing. So coming back to the point, right, so in the very beginning, that commercial opportunity had to be crystalized for these investors. That, okay, in two years, will be here, we'll be selling this much, we'll be doing this problem well, will be distributing this product like this, and this is what it will look like. Right. That was that had to be passed, and it was, because it's not just the mission, it also has to other set manifest into these problems which have commercial value, both for the user or the customer, because that's also a business, and for us, right, and therefore investor, as a party. So that was like part one. Now as you have transition as twice as like, you know, move forward. Now you are at the sage. Okay, people are using it, you will like, you know, like whatnot, and you have commercial markers, right, and growth markers and whatnot, and now it's about scale. Right like now it's about it. Okay, you have this going very well, you're this going really well. Can I now you know how? What? What will you do with ten million? What will you do with twinty, with what would you do with hundred million? Right like, how will you take this forward? What rate will we move? What will the market move? Why? So they the typical the commercial the markers have to be shown and that's in respective Le Grays. That's part of it. It's any business. I mean again it it sounds like, yeah, that's any business, but these are fundamentals that, you know, not everyone has in mind or in place in the beginning of...

...their journey and I think if they're going to be successful, they will learn this or their partner with someone that understands this type of how do you build a successful business fundamentally. But you know, I talked to so many people where they're pitching and they have a great idea and theory. They're pitching it to investors, they're pitching it to early adopters or pilot partners and they're not gaining any traction and I think a big part of that is because they get so caught up in the mission that they forget the bringing it down a reality of like, okay, but this is how this is our commercialization strategy, this is our path with these incremental milestones, like you said, with the growth markers, and being able to have that and for them to be for the investors to be able to have confidence that say, okay, yes, I see the broader mission that I want to invest in, but I also see that you have the ability to pair that down and focus and, like this bowling pin effect, right and knock the first pin down and then knock the second pin down and so forth, instead of getting so side tractive, like I'm going to have a strategy for this pain and the strategy for this pin and I end up not being successful because I can't stay focused because the mission is so big and I could douse so many different things. Yeah, as I see, two things are this right. So I totally agree with what you're saying, and I because you have to otherwise you can't exect you right like. You have to focus. Otherwise what will you do? You will never be able to build anything right like. That's the problem with with that. So now the way, at least I understood, and like I understand businesses, like you know mission, right, then you have a vision, right, so, like we mission within are two very different things. So vision is, like what will people be doing if you actually are enabling your mission at a certain scale? Right, so, okay, a physician will be doing this, right, a lifecise is company will be doing this. Having that clarity is important, right. So that's the one. Then the pathway to that vision, right, I think, like you should not start up if you don't see a pathway to that vision, right, like, because it's very easy. Ideas are actually very cheap, right, like, and you can find most of the ideas. Right. It's not at what druce's mission is as a New Vision. There a lot of companies which are big. You're not gone about this. Yes, that pathway and I approach that is different. And and timing right. Why? That pathway today makes sense, right, and it might be very different two years from now. Right, if we started two years later, it would have been very different, right, like for even us. How would we would go about exact I think context, right, like it's very important for that pathway towards your vision. So that's like one bar. Okay, can I just pause there and say yes, yes, yes, the timing is something that I think it's overlooked. I can't tell you how many innovators I talk to and it's like we start to pull back the layers of their timing strategy and their timing strategies when the product is finished. It's not based upon market conditions or market trends or competitive landscape or any of those types of things that really shape that path that you're talking about. Okay, had to say that. I totally understand. Right. And again, like, it's not like we knew. It's one thing to know the concept, so I think to know it for your business, right, like, so, trust me, like there's no, we don't know it perfectly either. Right. So I agree about that. Right. So, and I don't think we will be right, even at Lake City B right, like, no, we won't be, because that's what market is. It's a living organism, that is it's its own shape. So that's part and parcel of just building a business. Right. So you have to print the CSS and then, if you're the CEO or a CX of that company, of a starter, then you have to take a call, right, you have to bet on it. Right. That's the whole point of being in a start. So that's part one, and investors want that right, the respective of what it will do not turn out to be, because they also understand the dynamic of the the dynamic nature...

...of this whole argue, of this setup. Right. So that's there. But do you? They need to know that you are thinking it too. Right. So, like, I think that's like, at least in the very early stage. Is that's what like you. Yeah, okay, fine, you will do ABC. I get it right, let's go about it, let's go it. And none of the ABC actually happened. What happened was like FG and Z. Right, so like, which is very likely, which is what is like. What it is. The mission is consistent, but the vision keeps evolving. By, okay, X, Y Z is now doing it like this. Okay, good, now we can do it it this fast, and that's always part of the gay. Yeah, investors wanted now. But part two. Write. A second thing I want to say on the investor bed is that I have like what I understand is they start up always recruits their investor right like from the end, and it's a very it's a very important decision, especially in this early state. That's it is a series. Be Right like. At this early stage, you have to be very, like particular about who you bring in. Right like. So, to me, actually, it's the other way around, right so, rather than, like you know, investors being, like you know, doing it fundly. Again, do you so that vision alignment is very important, right like. It's especially in today. Right like. It might change in three months, like complete leaving. Today's market. is so much capital available, right like. And it's like, but every cap, no matter who says what, every piece of capital, has a string attached to it. No matter what they say, what they do capital. Right like. And you, to Anto, cannot be naive about it. Yeah, it's this. They are giving me your fimillion. I'll just take this. Let's just go right. It does not work. Right like. It never works. At bigger you might bill start believing it's working. That's a different story. But like for what you wanted to do, right, that's why God work, and you should be okay with that. So identify the right fit. Right like. It's very important. And everyone and every startup has their own strategy. We have our own. Right so, for we are very, very particular about investments, right because we we take money very seriously. Right. So where it's a very important today is the vision alignment there. So we actually spend a lot of time with investors on do you see that happening? Do you see that ten billion dollar business actually being created in that high growth, right, high margin, but very, very high risk, like after I do you have that? Yeah, people say they do, but when you start feeling the layers, right, even investor or actually you don't write. So that, I think that's part two of the story. Yes, they will need all this, but you also need to do this wetting to make that happen, not just like any money. Somebody money says yeah, you, it is not near. Like a lot of wonderment. I was like, they miss this part that you work for the money actually a lot of the times in this business, right, like you have to accept that as like one as true and then go for it. Yeah, so one of our earlier conversations you were talking about the important of starting to sell early. How US tell me, tell us a little bit more about that and how that has played out for you or how you see that plane out in the market place. I personally think that like the first function, right, I won't say like a higher but a function that any startup should have, a sales irrespective of what you do. And I'm coming from biote, coming from a scientist, I'm so impressed, and I'm coming from biotech, right, where you don't sell anything for like ten years, right, it's normal. Right. But try to understanding when I mean that sale function. That sale function would be selling the business that they've seale from resenting the Vision Self. Say function will be selling anything. Right. But the first function is safe and, and I it's very important, the rate at which, like the smartest individuals, right, like the most intelligent individuals can it rate, like, you know, much faster than let's say, somebody...

...less bright, right, like and obvious. However, the even the smartest individual can't tetraate, like the crowd source iteration, right, like they can't do that. Right. So knowing, talking to people, right, like getting that insight in, I'm correcting your course based on Aha, right, like it takes it saves you months to years very quickly. Right. So selling, and that's what I mean by selling, right, like presenting the point and that, okay, this is what I want to do. This, so I'm going about it. What do you think this is really bad, writing with my uns. Right, a fad idea, hard idea. Those are the conversations where you want to spend hours now, right. Oh yeah, I got it. So like, so this is the Al Tell You. Right. So it was just really, has this happened once? So when you are starting, I don't know, like we started a Hackathon, right. So we were presenting and participating in the Hackathon. We have presented this idea, as was happening at like the Google offices in New York, and we were presenting this and and we won that Hackathon, right, so like. So that's how drys did. That was the name. Dry is drug choy. That's how it all came about, right. So, post winning, it was like we want two thousand dollars, right. So like. And then three of the five, sixteen members, and that Hackathorn, started this company. So that's how we started this whole like, you know, circus, this process. So post winning. So they're like interview, that everything and a fine, like it's will be a startups and whatnot. And then I'm outside and then there's a guy, very smart, very capable individual. He sets me down. Right. Okay, so now you have two thousand five hundred dollars. And X Y Z the one of the biggest companies right, like in this space, in health carry I. They have, you know, a few billion. Tell me how you'll get there, right, I don't think you'll get there. And they think about right, once you win any competition. Right, like there are ten people who are ready to convertulate people to do this and not, God, we, we were are yet that. Thank you very much. We to talk to you, this guy. We need to talk to for like, you know, a few hours. So that's the acted you and actually that that would happened. We ended up after to night, like you know, kind of sacred, a pre our conversation with this individual, where he's just beating on us, right, just like this is really bad, this is really bad, really bad, really bad, really bad. I've done this, like you know this way. I'm just going to just and he's a very capable, very successful individual, right. So I'm that conversation taught us probably like six months of work in those three hours at least the seed, right, and I'll tell you right. So that conversation then led to our first investor. That conversation led to our first client. That conversation led to a lot of other things. So it's that big negative, right, you know, conversation that you need to have a legular yeah, regularly to move forward. Yeah. So the the humility to be able to say yes, it will work and walk away, you know, don't, don't try to destroy my dream. But to be able to sit there for three hours and you know, someone tell you that you have a bad idea, like you're that it's not going to work, but being able to listen to that and being able to not just hear it but then absorb it, filter it and go wow, is there something I need to do differently here in order to really make this work? That's that's powerful. Again, it's another one of those things that seem really, really simple, but it's fundamentally something that I think just a lot of human beings just skip over because we want to defend or attack or blame or say you're an idiot, that's why you don't get it, instead of really being able to hear that feedback and adjust accordingly. So you're like yes, and I look at it this way. I'm saying is like sales function, right. So a sales function typically is right that this conversation is worth my time and this conversation is not right, even though both are saying we are interested, or both are saying you're not interested. Right. So, so you might want to convert somebody who saying I'm not interested into like, you know, I'm interested, or you might be to dig saying...

...okay, this guy says is really interested, but you know there will not go anywhere. So that's like the sales intusion that you have to develop, right, as an entrepreneur, irrespective of what your title, role or function is. Right. So that's like the core goals. Same Conversation, the negative conversation, or that's a not so positive conversation. You have to look at it that way. That okay, you see, a lot of people will tell you a lot of things, right, like the question is which conversation is worth my time? You have to look at it as a resource. Right. So that's what a sales function does. Okay, I can do twenty conversation as in a day Max. Which twenty are those? I can wander it right to which one are those? So that's the intelligence that you have to develop and that happens with experience. You can't read that in a book. You can't do that, like you can't prepare for it. You just have to do it right and then you have to like look at it in the negative conversation. At least that's how I understand. Is Just my opinion. The tactics that at least works for me is that I look at it as recruitment. So, like, what if I have to recruit this individual? To me, he's really negative about like, you know what we're doing. How can I recruit this individual? And recruitment does not end in this conversation? Then you have to work with this in. Then you have to make them productive, then you have to make them, you know, add to the vision. Right. So, yeah, you're to you can just let you know, bluff it. You can't just fake it. You have to actually think it through. So that's like the tactic that I have used. Which one was for me? That like it helps streamline the mental model of intracting in and how important in credicle this mental model is. Wow, see, every entrepreneur right like, and I this is what I fundamentally believe in. Every entrepreneur has a bit of arrogance, and I use the word arrogance in a very particular context. Right, what are you saying? You're saying these six people, right, that's what right, for six people will change healthcare all over the world. That's arrogant, no matter how you want to package it. That's arrogant. But that's part of every you know, the dream, every vision, right, and you have to know. Yeah, now you have to use that arrogance. It's a it's a capital read. You have to use that very intelligently because that can, you know, rop people. You're the wrong way and then they're they're out. You have to use it very intelligently, so you don't need to, you know, take somebodys in Awaya. This is a really bad and whatnot, or not it? Okay, good, got it, digest it, will alter it or will ignore it. Ignore it perfectly fine. To ignore it, right, and then move forward. It's your own conviction that you have to move ready, take forward. So, Anay, so like that. That's the most important math that has to up and that's the mainten models. So I think too many people just automatically ignore it. Okay, two or three and then two or three years later, Cos you remember, you know, after they spent either several hundred thousand millions of dollars or just a lot of painstaking time and effort. Rights. It's either time or money or energy in this one sided, very narrow vision or path that it had to go and just ignoring all of that and end up finding out the law the wrong way. And a lot of times when they start to have that epiphany and go gosh, maybe that guy was on to something, it's too late. They don't have any more money, they've burned all their investment opportunity, they don't have any more paying customers, or whatever that looks like, and now the company's going under. and to me that is really related to you know, where you've got this failure rate of ninety five percent of innovations that are brought to market fail, and it's not because they have bad technology, it's because of this whole labyrineuth, of this commercialization process and having the the science, the art, the mental model, if you will, to be able to navigate that labyrineuth and find out your path, and I love what you're saying, is that along that way, really being able to intelligently determine what conversations are worth it, what feedback is worth it, and what do you...

...do with that? Yeah, see, I by no means right like an expert on innovation. So I just know it was like it's like answer the guide what I think. Right, like, and when I've talked to other founders, the other companies, right, like I'm who have helped us. Writing. Well, health doesn't understand and develop these inside right. Yeah, what I've seen is that you will always miss out on things, right, you will always make mistakes. That's part of the game. Right. So there will be a time when you like, oh no, now, what do I do? Right. So all of that is there. Yes, you can change the proportion of it. That's I think that's what you're saying. Right. You can change the proportion of it by changing certain processes and, like you know, you're more individually and organizationally, right, like, by incorporating feedback in a more constructive way and whatnot, or continuous way, that making continuous feedback loops part of Your Business Strategy. Yeah, so and so, like I think that's like, and executing that is more difficult than just thinking about it, right. So, like, because you're all humans, it's difficult to say someone to your baby's ugly. Like, okay, like good luck now you're not like taking this forward. So that's kind of where it is, I still think, at least for us. Rightly, I don't know what other for us. It's not a perfect process. Right, it's not a perfect process by any I've interviewed hundreds of people on this show over the last three years. I've not come across one that help perfect process. It's a double let's aw right time. You can't take all feedback. You need to have been a strict your conviction, but you also have to evolve. So like get you said, balance, and I think that's for every individual and individual business to decide. So yeah, so this has been a phenomenal conversation. I can just talk to you for hours and hours and we could just pay in her and go back and forth about these issues, in these challenges and how to solve them in what works and what does it. But we are going to have to wrap up here. Is there anything else that you want to share with our audience? And then also, how can folks get a hold of you at the end of the show? Okay, so a couple of things. Rightly, very very quick couple of things. Eve, I think we've talken enough about the mission. I just we trade that, right, like when, unfortunately, right, when you are a patient, you don't have any leverage, right, like they in a in any if you go and buy, like, you know, an egg, right, like from our groogle leger does an eggs from our Delli, versus like any who, you have leverage, right, you can make here. There's a barter going on and you can. Then you don't. You're not a customer anymore, right, like you are actually at the mercy of health care to, you know, get better. That's actually what it is from most people. The owners is on the community, right, and that community is innovators, at communities, healthcare and regulator and the governments and everyone, right, all these takeholders to make that transaction a bit more human, right. So that's what you are that's what druce is trying to enable a scale. Right. That's what we see technology can do. Can we make it just better? Can we just, you know, avoid the ten things that will be tried and tested and just give this patient what will work for them? That's the technology, that's the impact. That's what we are trying to enable here, right, just make it more human and they have it tomorrow. So for me and Droyce will not be able to do this alone, right, like, and so we are looking for partners, players, stakeholders, anybody who wants to like, you know, life sciences, hell systems, right pairs, any individuals there. That's how we work, right. We love to talk to people figure out how we can package this and take, you know, take it forward, and that's the the you know, like it's that mission vision alignment that I'm always looking for the community to, you know, teach me and then take so that's one second is and more like we are always recruiting, you're always growing, you're always partnering. So, like you know, any individuals want to contribute towards this direction, please talk to us. Even if it is not droys, right, will be other people that we know and we can just make this go forward. So that's like my let's a perspective on just just want to work with...

...more and more good people to make the mission. Yeah, yeah, that's great, awesome. So how Cay and folks get ahold of you if they want to eat with you, to be a part of that. So my first name Mayer. May you are at dry slabscom, which is the website right, that's my email. You can send it to me directly and I'll, you know, send it to other people. I'm on Linkedin my your sex saying a feel we do. Gonna actry like happy you dog and take it from there. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been a very, very valuable conversation. No, thanks a lot for having me. I really, really mean it. It's expeat to you. What I heard of was that you have seen, you know the Meta of these leg you know situations they want and it's not obvious, right, like we can just talk about this. It's not obvious when you are in the mix of things, right it really, I'm pretty sure. If it happens to me, we caame doing this every day, right, like I'm missing that. So big have an external voice that can just by the way, when you you're not doing a so you know the A, the theory of it, but it is that exact detail. So I think, like I hope you, you know, connect and touch as many entrepreent horse as possible and they don't help them, because I think that's what you are agree that is my mission is to see that five percent success rate move drastically over the next few years and make it happen. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market and I value your time and attention. To get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Health Innovators.

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