Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 106 · 2 months ago

Sell small. Sell early. w/ Mayur Saxena

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Having a mission and vision are par for the course with healthcare entrepreneurs. We all want to change the face of healthcare in a positive way.

Staying focused on your mission while growing and scaling your startup, though, that’s where it can get tricky. It’s good to have a few tools in our toolboxes, like how to leverage sales functions in your startup.

Mayur Saxena can tell us all a thing or two about leveraging sales and growing a scalable startup - he’s done just that with his company Droice Labs.

In our latest episode, Mayur talks about key strategies he put into place that helped him bring 50 healthcare systems on board. And, come on, 50? That’s amazing for a healthcare innovation!

Come hear Mayur tell his story and dish a few insights - then take a trick or two back with you to add to your toolbox.

Here are the show highlights: 

  • Finding a path to better care programs (6:53)
  • It’s okay to be mission-driven and disruptive (12:07)
  • How being mission-focused can affect funding (19:43)
  • Why you should stay mission-focused but reality based(22:42)
  • The first function for startups is sales (29:54)
  • Dig deeper and find the value in negative conversations (31:33)  

Guest Bio 

Mayur Saxena is CEO of Droice Labs, a company that is dedicated to enabling personalized medicine at scale.

As both entrepreneur and scientist, Mayur spends his career concentrating on advancing medicine using high-noise/big data analysis.

In addition to occupying key roles in several startups, including co-founding a biotech firm in the diabetes space, Mayur earned his Ph.D. from Columbia University, focusing on the computational physics of disease.

If you’d like to contact Mayur directly, you can email him at mayur@droicelabs.com, or find him on LinkedIn at Mayur Saxena. If you’d like more information about Droice Labs, visit their website at DroiceLabs.com.

You're listening to health innovators, apodcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adopters who are shapingthe future of healthcare. I'm your host, Dr Roxy Movie. Welcome back tothe show health innovators. On today's episode I have my or Sexna withme, who is the CEO of Troy Slabs. Welcome to the show.Thank you for having us. It is so good to have you here.So I always like to start off the episode by you just sharing a littlebit about your background and what you're innovating these days, just to give somecontext for today's conversation. Sure, as a background, I consider myself ascientist who happens to be an entrepreneur. Most recently, Education Wise, Ifinished my PhD work at Columbia University in the fair field of healthcare data science, right, like, working with different types of therapeutics and whatnot. I'man engineer, right so, like I personally enjoy building things and buildings,not just engineering machines, but building, let's a organizations building, let's ateam's building, people building, let's say, things that have an impact. Right. So that's how I look at things. For me, it's funto be in healthcare. I'm a passionate healthcare individual. I think healthcare issomething that will impact everyone and already is, like, you know, gain beingmore and more. It's a visibility in people's life and that's my personal, let's say, motivation. that. Okay, how can I improve healthcare wherever I am? I'm originally from India. Did Mind Agrad their transitionthrough, let's a various countries to the US back in two thousand and twelve. have been here since then working in the field, developing some ventures,helping some ventures and now taking droys forward, nice and so hous. A littlebit about Royce. So droyces a healthcare AI company. There is asa mission for the company. We look at it as if you want tomatch individual patients to interventions or therapies, drugs, right, any intervention thatwill work for them. Right. So we are matching AI company. Ifyou think about medicine in general, right, like medicine is matching patients to thingsthat work for them. Right. So in a lot of ways it'sa very big mission. It's a big vision, right like that. Okay, you want to match every patient to the intervention that wild work for them, but some Mildi step process and we are on this journey. We startedin two thousand and seventeen, two thousand and sixteen late in this part.Today, around forty people, right, like developing this serving let's say healthsystems or its hospitals, like providers of general type life sciences, companies,payers and government agencies across United States, Europe and Russia. I mean thissounds like an incredible dream. How close are we are you? I saywe HA. How closed are you to making this a reality? Yeah,and I think like not just as right, like guiding a whole health care communityas a whole is working towards this mission. We see it as aas a very let's a technical approach to it and like making a technology agentcome into this makes to accelerate this exponentiary. Right, it's how we see it. But if you look at it like overall, what is happening isthat most of the times, like if I have to personalize the care forany individual, right, like any individual, I obviously have to work with thisindividual's information. Okay, if Mau is that individual, what did Maureeat? Right, what happened to me? You, like in the past,like, let's say you know, like responses. What happened to theirlet's a treatment response that they were on this drug, how did the diseaseprogress? All these different things. Right. So the way we look at itis that, like a somebody, some technology or some platform has toconsume this information about the individual from all over, make sense of it andsurface it. Okay, this is where...

...this person's disease is going. Canyou intervene? Right. So it's a multifacted problem. We are at thislike in a stage where we are doing this across language, across systems,helping these physicians, helping these clinicians take these decisions. We don't see itas like, you know, an ai which will just do this on itsown. We see it as a hybrid of like very smart individuals, doctorswho are already serving patients, and then technology enable them to make that happen. So, so this sounds incredible. One of the things that we knowis that, you know, health care as a whole has been struggling foryears to to aggregate data for number of reasons. So what are you guysdoing? Differently, that's helping you get access to this multisource data. That'sgoing to be so important in the foundation for what you try to accomplish.Yeah, I see right. Thinking the future is, you know, likewhere every individual has their genome, their proteome. They're like, you know, the basic every they all the things that have happened to them, theirdiet history, all of that aggregated, and intelligence systems on that system,analyzing it and guiding the right people to dispense better care. Right, that'sthere. But if you look at like the history of health care, healthcare is a, you know, make one of those dusty fields, right, like we work with regulation. It's a field that is moving at itsown base for good reason, right, like you can't, you can't movefast and break things in healthcare, right, because they are not things, theyare people. So the way we look at this is that, likepostal thousand tends, especially in the United States, right like after the HighTech Act and the adoption of Emr's, massive amounts of, let's say,information has been captured at these health systems about patients, diseases, patients,progressions, patients making, various things that are happening there. Yeah, theproblem is that, like, most of this data was never collected to dopersonalization of care, right, it was actually be collected for more administrative purposes. Now here comes in roys that the thesis is, okay, in thefuture will have all this data all organized and collected for everyone, but inthe meantime, in the ten fifteen years, when the years that are left inbetween, can we transform the data from as is, you know,situation and utilize that to enable better decisions today, right like, in thislike period. That's the core thesis from a data standpoint that we are tryingto get to and to do that right like. That's a very like ina lot of is a AI problem, because you can read a lot ofthis data, you can understand a lot of the data across languages, acrosssystems, across like, you know, massive therapeutic areas that are just notunderstood and make that happen. So that's like how we are looking at it'sa different approach and therefore a different technology there for a different stack. Rightso the way what we are doing in a some reason, like you're supplyinga new les, a care personalization stack to the market which can be leveragedby health systems, payers life sciences to personalize the care of the people,to get better outcomes to dispense better care, which we think fundamentally, is thefuture of health care very exciting. So where are you in this innovationprocess now in Lick? Just to give an idea, like we work with, like, I think, over fifty health systems across the globe, wherewe are like, you know, helping them dispense the scare you worcome withmajor life sciences companies which are using this to design better therapies, to understandvarious disease populations develop better. Let's say, you know, intervention protocols and it'sused by Government Agency, Right, Rama state government, and I wantto understand. Okay, what exactly is my disease burden? What are thevarious, let's a heart failure populations? What is happening to them? CanI do, you know, come in and design a better care program canprocure better drugs? Can I procure better interventions? So this is where weare. It's like, as I said, write, I gets a massive wethe way the KPI is dryce look sad, is like number of patientswe are going through right. So that's...

...like one major thing impact right forus as a big deal, and that's like in tens of millions of patientstoday as a tiny little company, right like that, as we started,it stends a million of patients of data watch, we have gone through andimpacted the care of today, right, and that's like and we are likea cities, a stage company, which is like moving forward in that renations. Yeah, well, that's what I want to know, I mean,and I know our audience wants to know it is, is, how didyou get to this point? Right, so you're you are really doing somethingthat's very revolutionary that a lot of people have probably dreamed of and haven't beenable to kind of figure out the recipe for success yet. And and soyou're an early stage company and you've already got, you know, like yousaid, fifty plus hospital systems around the world that are using the platform.So how are you getting those early adopters and how are you getting people tograsp the potential of this very revolutionary in invention? Yeah, I think thegood thing about ultill you like how we started with the founding story and wherethey are why we went this route, right like. So, this waslike two thousand and sixteen, two thousand and seventeen, when I was stillfinishing my PhD, right, like, and I was actually part of apharmaceutical start right, like, where we were commercializing a therapy. Right.So I was working with like, you know, physicians, rows like varioushealth care stakeholders and setting up like clinical trials and whatnot across different countries.Right. So that's like, that was the whole thing and that's when wesaw that actually, if you look at like diabetes, right, like diabetesor, let's a heart failure, they are not a disease, they area whole spectrum of conditions of its own. Right. So, no, too, heart failure, patients, regular in all likelihood, are not thesame. They actually a very different and that answer that what type of patientis this? What type of pasion is this? Is like, you know, unknown, right, so, like, and it's difficult for even a physicianto decipher and immediately. Would like. So how do people handle it today? Right, like. So people are handling it by massive, let'ssay, service PIPEMY. Right, so, like a whole outsourcing ag is.Your people will go through it manually, right, like something they will do, and we all know, right, like how, let's say, pressureizehealthcare systems are. There's barely anything they can do right for the wholepopulation. If you have to do it manually, right it? So atthe end it nothing happens right to you end up, like, you know, serving generic care in a lot of cases, which is bad for thepatient and then bad for the outcomes and bad for the whole health care communityas a whole. Right. So so we came up a look at it. Can we to immediately ran to like, you know, colleagues at Columbia,right like, and a new professors at my us that whatnot? CanWe build a technology? Can We build a technology that can do this?Right, can? It can basically suck in these various forms of patient dataand then on the other side, says, from a you switch him from Sanofi'sdrag to this care program and that will be better, or so shamedfor to the sort of used rather right like, and that will be betterfor this outcome. So that was the whole like thesis. And immediately youwere like, okay, yeah, you can do this, it can bedone. It's a very difficult problem to solve, it can be done.Yeah, you have a lot of data, right, so, like I's,you can, you know, utilize this diversity of disease, right,like it ads for an advantage. So that came this okay, like,you know, we are entrepreneurs. We have, let's say, others,at immigrants, right like. So you're like, okay, yeah, let's, you know, talk to everyone. So to your core question, right, like okay, how do we convince these people at this stage and theydo make this happen? We showed them what is possible, Bi literally showingit to them. That a way we can take this daytime and this iswhat we can do. I can tell you for this heart failure patient,they are going to have blah, Blah Blah event in the next few monthsand this, say, is why they will get there. I immediately theansistors are we need this, right, like we want to understand. Isthe government, it is you'r. We want to understand this how life sciencehas come to you want to understand this,...

...right. Can you actually transform thisdata in two thousand and sixteen to in the current gain? This fielddid not exist. We we did not believe that this data can actually beused, right for clinical purposes. So that's the viewer will like Fu okay, no, you can be done. It is a proof. Can youwork together. So that was the convincing exercise, which was based on real, tangible proofs coming out of this information which, you know, the wayyou describe it it, you make it seemed so easy, but it's not. I mean, even when you're working in a market that the problem isvery mature, you can still have challenges with convincing someone to choose your solutionover someone else's. And what you're talking about, where there's the problem,is mature. People know that the problem is there, but they're not necessarilybelieve that there's a solution out there to solve it, and so being ableto persuade them of that, I think, is just so powerful. And thenbeing able to access those early adopters, because the folks that you're talking to, you know, if you've already gotten so many people to say yes, then that means that you've been able to find those early adopters, whichis so critical. A lot of folks that I talk to and that wework with, they end up spending time, you know, trying to arm,twist and persuade all of these other potential customers that are the late adoptersright, or the mainstream market, to like you need this, this isgoing to change it. Right, but they but they don't have any awarenessof the need or it's not a problem that they're looking to solve right now. They're waiting to see when their competitors or their peers adopted before they makeany, any movement on it. Right. So what you're describing is a lotof success in some of those early commercial milestones. That, I thinkis just it's just really incredible and worth us, you know, even diggingdeeper into today. Thanks. I think the we got. For us it'sa mission, right, like it's a mission, and that okay. Wewant to match every patient to, you know, things that will work forthem. That's the mission for us. So and that is something which hashelped us a lot. Right, like being mission driven. I'm not sayingevery startup should be mission driven, because it's perfectly fine to like look atit. I give we want to build something cool and I completely understand thevalue in that, right, but we happen to be mission driven, right. So, like for us it was like no, this is the mission. So we got on the way. Writing. A lot of it was, as you say, it was not easy. By any mean that itis not easy. It won't be easy moving forward either's change. Change isnever easy, right, so it's very disruptive as well. It's like,how is this going to work and what is the how is this going tochange things? What is it going to change? Is it going to changeeverything? And we learned that right like. So, when we started talking todoctors, which was like right, like a talking to a surgeon,I certainly like listen, like when I operate right, like I have myright hand at this angle, my left hand at this angle, and ifthey don't pass me this tool exactly at this point of time, it's notgood. Okay, that's how specific they are about how they work, right, how they operate. And it's not just a surgeon, even like aprimary care doctor, even like an urgent care doctor. They all operate inlike a very, very, very specific process. How can you interject inthis process and change it? Right like that's like okay. They're like,okay, listen, great that you can do this. Where is it?Where do I right, right, right, and learned about to is this goingto be to my work? Forow, my work flooring works like the GoldenNugget, right, like that, and for good reason. Right.So, so that's those were and we didn't know when we started. Wedidn't know that, right, like, honestly speak, we had no idea, right, like, okay, is that is that how it is,right, like, and then we had to solve it, right. So, like then we had to like solve it. So for us it wasthe actually, but people are like, okay, like me, you will, you should not do this, right,...

...and I see reason in that.And like for us being mission driven. Well, like, but that's themeasure, right, like we can't budge from that. And another thingit right, and it has become more clear in recent years. If you'rein data, if you're an AI, if you're in health care, dataand a I, it's a very, very hot space. Right. Soyour commercialization directions are infinite, right, indivor still in today's market. Soif, for us, you get these opportunities, all ruther it. Canyou also do this? Can you also do that? Can you commercialize thisway? Can the commerciale that way for us and like, well, sorry, this is the mission. Right. So, which is both a goodthing and a bad thing. Right, it keeps you on course and thenyou to your mind earlier adoptors on all these people are only. That's themission. We have the same mission. I don't understand everything here. Ican help you, I get but I can understand. I want to help. So dry actually was built a lot by people who just wanted to help. Write like people from the financial industry that I know this right explicitly,where like I have somebody in the team right, like who was we wereinterviewing and like we interviewed this individual first interview and he's like yeah, well, you know, like this was how much I charge. Is What he'svery good right, like it is what a chat or not? And we'relike, okay, fine, short like great, and interview ends and weare obviously in the whole interview process. He's in, like, you know, several interview processes of his own and then he messages us that. Listen, guys, like I looked it up right the post our interview. Ilooked at what you're trying to do, I understand, is forget everything else, I'll work for free, okay, and I want to do this.And this was like when you are four, five, six people, right,and you're like Oh, really, okay, so this is, thisis and this is not one individual story, right, this is how a lotof people at drays are war and have been right. So mission.All right, so that's big to one answer for you, leg what kepthas on course, at least so far, and what helpe that's leg do theyextend me? Good by it pretty much naughty stores is commitment. Hey, it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Are youtrying to figure out what moves you need to make to survive and thrive inthe new covid economy? I want every health innovator to find their most viableand profitable pivot strategy, which is why I created the covid proof your businesspivot kit. The pivot kit is a step by step framework that helps youfind your best pivot strategy. It walks you through six categories you need toexamine for a three hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I callthem the six critical pivot lenses. As you make your way through this comprehensivekit, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to makesure you can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details and opportunities. Learn more at legacy DNACOM backslash kit. What is one. What's a numberone or one commercialization strategy that you think is just so critical to achievesuccess? Link for dry side in gender either both. Let's talk about let'sTalk I think this is probably they you know, very obvious. But it'slike solving a problem that is that people are aware of. Some talking aboutcommercialization, right. So you can solve a problem that nobody's aware of,right, and like and you can solve it and solve very well, andthat's great, right, but for commercialization you do solve problem that people areusually aware of. Right as a start. It is definitely a better strategy.It's a much longer journey when you're trying to educate the market at aproblem that they don't know that they have. Or maybe your invent in arrested insolving exactly right. And now think of it from druces perspective. Roycea deep tech company. Right. So deep tech companies are fundamentally different froma typical SASS company, whereas ass companies like, I'm solving problem A andI'll solve it really well and I'll build...

...so much that for any individual Iwill not be able to build this much and it's much cheaper to just buy. Right. That's the basic commercialization back tack of a SASS Company. Butas on this side, right, a deep tech company. You actually don'tknow individual problems. When you begin with radio. I want to match patientsto interventions that would work for them. That's a massive problem, but itclick, you know, manifests as several very, very, very small problemsand you need to go in and, let you know, package the productinto those like pieces. For the systems to actually get right, you haveto move beyond the mission. That's right for droys like. Okay, thatwas the whole thing. That okay. Why did these people end up workingwith us? They start talking to us, to a tiny company of no ones, because of the mission and because of what we can potentially do.They started actually working with us because of we are solving those individual pieces ofproblem. That affected your I think that that's really important. So how isthat affected your fundraising? With being able to have this big broad mission?Right, that just is super altruistic, right. I mean, who doesn'twant to transform healthcare for the entire world? Right, who doesn't want to makesure that all patients around the world get the right treatment that they specificand personally need. Right. So you've got all these investors like yeah,okay, sounds great, but how right? And so I imagine as you're goingthrough that journey, you're evolving your story. And how do you presentthat big, bold mission and then these very specific use cases that people arewilling to buy? Now I think that's a that's a pretty important question,right, and as the CEO, let you take one of the most importantquestions for the size of impact we want to be it. So, see, in the very beginning, right, like it's still rightly, even withinthe investor spectrum, you have people who will Bet a vision, right,like who will bet, like, you know, the the mission, andit's all truely state, but it's also, like, quite important commercially, rightfor this industry. And if I can actually improve the care for thesepeople at scale across geographies, across they stems, across like, you know, it infrastructures, that's a major commercial opportunity. Right. So, people, it's still for profit, mission, it's yeah, right. So,and like for I fundamentally believe in that. Right, like that, if youwant to actually create sizeable impact, it will have to be driven by, let's say, largely commercial models, right, business models of bigree ofthat nature. It can't be that, will you know, like there areyou have to and have to think about the business model, right. Soso that's like a given as an entrepreneur and not just like as a signedas an underreners, like part and parts of the thing. So coming backto the point, right, so in the very beginning, that commercial opportunityhad to be crystalized for these investors. That, okay, in two years, will be here, we'll be selling this much, we'll be doing thisproblem well, will be distributing this product like this, and this is whatit will look like. Right. That was that had to be passed,and it was, because it's not just the mission, it also has toother set manifest into these problems which have commercial value, both for the useror the customer, because that's also a business, and for us, right, and therefore investor, as a party. So that was like part one.Now as you have transition as twice as like, you know, moveforward. Now you are at the sage. Okay, people are using it,you will like, you know, like whatnot, and you have commercialmarkers, right, and growth markers and whatnot, and now it's about scale. Right like now it's about it. Okay, you have this going verywell, you're this going really well. Can I now you know how?What? What will you do with ten million? What will you do withtwinty, with what would you do with hundred million? Right like, howwill you take this forward? What rate will we move? What will themarket move? Why? So they the typical the commercial the markers have tobe shown and that's in respective Le Grays. That's part of it. It's anybusiness. I mean again it it sounds like, yeah, that's anybusiness, but these are fundamentals that, you know, not everyone has inmind or in place in the beginning of...

...their journey and I think if they'regoing to be successful, they will learn this or their partner with someone thatunderstands this type of how do you build a successful business fundamentally. But youknow, I talked to so many people where they're pitching and they have agreat idea and theory. They're pitching it to investors, they're pitching it toearly adopters or pilot partners and they're not gaining any traction and I think abig part of that is because they get so caught up in the mission thatthey forget the bringing it down a reality of like, okay, but thisis how this is our commercialization strategy, this is our path with these incrementalmilestones, like you said, with the growth markers, and being able tohave that and for them to be for the investors to be able to haveconfidence that say, okay, yes, I see the broader mission that Iwant to invest in, but I also see that you have the ability topair that down and focus and, like this bowling pin effect, right andknock the first pin down and then knock the second pin down and so forth, instead of getting so side tractive, like I'm going to have a strategyfor this pain and the strategy for this pin and I end up not beingsuccessful because I can't stay focused because the mission is so big and I coulddouse so many different things. Yeah, as I see, two things arethis right. So I totally agree with what you're saying, and I becauseyou have to otherwise you can't exect you right like. You have to focus. Otherwise what will you do? You will never be able to build anythingright like. That's the problem with with that. So now the way,at least I understood, and like I understand businesses, like you know mission, right, then you have a vision, right, so, like we missionwithin are two very different things. So vision is, like what willpeople be doing if you actually are enabling your mission at a certain scale?Right, so, okay, a physician will be doing this, right,a lifecise is company will be doing this. Having that clarity is important, right. So that's the one. Then the pathway to that vision, right, I think, like you should not start up if you don't see apathway to that vision, right, like, because it's very easy. Ideas areactually very cheap, right, like, and you can find most of theideas. Right. It's not at what druce's mission is as a NewVision. There a lot of companies which are big. You're not gone aboutthis. Yes, that pathway and I approach that is different. And andtiming right. Why? That pathway today makes sense, right, and itmight be very different two years from now. Right, if we started two yearslater, it would have been very different, right, like for evenus. How would we would go about exact I think context, right,like it's very important for that pathway towards your vision. So that's like onebar. Okay, can I just pause there and say yes, yes,yes, the timing is something that I think it's overlooked. I can't tellyou how many innovators I talk to and it's like we start to pull backthe layers of their timing strategy and their timing strategies when the product is finished. It's not based upon market conditions or market trends or competitive landscape or anyof those types of things that really shape that path that you're talking about.Okay, had to say that. I totally understand. Right. And again, like, it's not like we knew. It's one thing to know the concept, so I think to know it for your business, right, like, so, trust me, like there's no, we don't know it perfectlyeither. Right. So I agree about that. Right. So, andI don't think we will be right, even at Lake City B right,like, no, we won't be, because that's what market is. It'sa living organism, that is it's its own shape. So that's part andparcel of just building a business. Right. So you have to print the CSSand then, if you're the CEO or a CX of that company,of a starter, then you have to take a call, right, youhave to bet on it. Right. That's the whole point of being ina start. So that's part one, and investors want that right, therespective of what it will do not turn out to be, because they alsounderstand the dynamic of the the dynamic nature...

...of this whole argue, of thissetup. Right. So that's there. But do you? They need toknow that you are thinking it too. Right. So, like, Ithink that's like, at least in the very early stage. Is that's whatlike you. Yeah, okay, fine, you will do ABC. I getit right, let's go about it, let's go it. And none ofthe ABC actually happened. What happened was like FG and Z. Right, so like, which is very likely, which is what is like. Whatit is. The mission is consistent, but the vision keeps evolving. By, okay, X, Y Z is now doing it like this.Okay, good, now we can do it it this fast, and that'salways part of the gay. Yeah, investors wanted now. But part two. Write. A second thing I want to say on the investor bed isthat I have like what I understand is they start up always recruits their investorright like from the end, and it's a very it's a very important decision, especially in this early state. That's it is a series. Be Rightlike. At this early stage, you have to be very, like particularabout who you bring in. Right like. So, to me, actually,it's the other way around, right so, rather than, like youknow, investors being, like you know, doing it fundly. Again, doyou so that vision alignment is very important, right like. It's especiallyin today. Right like. It might change in three months, like completeleaving. Today's market. is so much capital available, right like. Andit's like, but every cap, no matter who says what, every pieceof capital, has a string attached to it. No matter what they say, what they do capital. Right like. And you, to Anto, cannotbe naive about it. Yeah, it's this. They are giving meyour fimillion. I'll just take this. Let's just go right. It doesnot work. Right like. It never works. At bigger you might billstart believing it's working. That's a different story. But like for what youwanted to do, right, that's why God work, and you should beokay with that. So identify the right fit. Right like. It's veryimportant. And everyone and every startup has their own strategy. We have ourown. Right so, for we are very, very particular about investments,right because we we take money very seriously. Right. So where it's a veryimportant today is the vision alignment there. So we actually spend a lot oftime with investors on do you see that happening? Do you see thatten billion dollar business actually being created in that high growth, right, highmargin, but very, very high risk, like after I do you have that? Yeah, people say they do, but when you start feeling the layers, right, even investor or actually you don't write. So that,I think that's part two of the story. Yes, they will need all this, but you also need to do this wetting to make that happen,not just like any money. Somebody money says yeah, you, it isnot near. Like a lot of wonderment. I was like, they miss thispart that you work for the money actually a lot of the times inthis business, right, like you have to accept that as like one astrue and then go for it. Yeah, so one of our earlier conversations youwere talking about the important of starting to sell early. How US tellme, tell us a little bit more about that and how that has playedout for you or how you see that plane out in the market place.I personally think that like the first function, right, I won't say like ahigher but a function that any startup should have, a sales irrespective ofwhat you do. And I'm coming from biote, coming from a scientist,I'm so impressed, and I'm coming from biotech, right, where you don'tsell anything for like ten years, right, it's normal. Right. But tryto understanding when I mean that sale function. That sale function would beselling the business that they've seale from resenting the Vision Self. Say function willbe selling anything. Right. But the first function is safe and, andI it's very important, the rate at which, like the smartest individuals,right, like the most intelligent individuals can it rate, like, you know, much faster than let's say, somebody...

...less bright, right, like andobvious. However, the even the smartest individual can't tetraate, like the crowdsource iteration, right, like they can't do that. Right. So knowing, talking to people, right, like getting that insight in, I'm correctingyour course based on Aha, right, like it takes it saves you monthsto years very quickly. Right. So selling, and that's what I meanby selling, right, like presenting the point and that, okay, thisis what I want to do. This, so I'm going about it. Whatdo you think this is really bad, writing with my uns. Right,a fad idea, hard idea. Those are the conversations where you wantto spend hours now, right. Oh yeah, I got it. Solike, so this is the Al Tell You. Right. So it wasjust really, has this happened once? So when you are starting, Idon't know, like we started a Hackathon, right. So we were presenting andparticipating in the Hackathon. We have presented this idea, as was happeningat like the Google offices in New York, and we were presenting this and andwe won that Hackathon, right, so like. So that's how drysdid. That was the name. Dry is drug choy. That's how itall came about, right. So, post winning, it was like wewant two thousand dollars, right. So like. And then three of thefive, sixteen members, and that Hackathorn, started this company. So that's howwe started this whole like, you know, circus, this process.So post winning. So they're like interview, that everything and a fine, likeit's will be a startups and whatnot. And then I'm outside and then there'sa guy, very smart, very capable individual. He sets me down. Right. Okay, so now you have two thousand five hundred dollars.And X Y Z the one of the biggest companies right, like in thisspace, in health carry I. They have, you know, a fewbillion. Tell me how you'll get there, right, I don't think you'll getthere. And they think about right, once you win any competition. Right, like there are ten people who are ready to convertulate people to dothis and not, God, we, we were are yet that. Thankyou very much. We to talk to you, this guy. We needto talk to for like, you know, a few hours. So that's theacted you and actually that that would happened. We ended up after tonight, like you know, kind of sacred, a pre our conversation withthis individual, where he's just beating on us, right, just like thisis really bad, this is really bad, really bad, really bad, reallybad. I've done this, like you know this way. I'm justgoing to just and he's a very capable, very successful individual, right. SoI'm that conversation taught us probably like six months of work in those threehours at least the seed, right, and I'll tell you right. Sothat conversation then led to our first investor. That conversation led to our first client. That conversation led to a lot of other things. So it's thatbig negative, right, you know, conversation that you need to have alegular yeah, regularly to move forward. Yeah. So the the humility tobe able to say yes, it will work and walk away, you know, don't, don't try to destroy my dream. But to be able tosit there for three hours and you know, someone tell you that you have abad idea, like you're that it's not going to work, but beingable to listen to that and being able to not just hear it but thenabsorb it, filter it and go wow, is there something I need to dodifferently here in order to really make this work? That's that's powerful.Again, it's another one of those things that seem really, really simple,but it's fundamentally something that I think just a lot of human beings just skipover because we want to defend or attack or blame or say you're an idiot, that's why you don't get it, instead of really being able to hearthat feedback and adjust accordingly. So you're like yes, and I look atit this way. I'm saying is like sales function, right. So asales function typically is right that this conversation is worth my time and this conversationis not right, even though both are saying we are interested, or bothare saying you're not interested. Right. So, so you might want toconvert somebody who saying I'm not interested into like, you know, I'm interested, or you might be to dig saying...

...okay, this guy says is reallyinterested, but you know there will not go anywhere. So that's like thesales intusion that you have to develop, right, as an entrepreneur, irrespectiveof what your title, role or function is. Right. So that's likethe core goals. Same Conversation, the negative conversation, or that's a notso positive conversation. You have to look at it that way. That okay, you see, a lot of people will tell you a lot of things, right, like the question is which conversation is worth my time? Youhave to look at it as a resource. Right. So that's what a salesfunction does. Okay, I can do twenty conversation as in a dayMax. Which twenty are those? I can wander it right to which oneare those? So that's the intelligence that you have to develop and that happenswith experience. You can't read that in a book. You can't do that, like you can't prepare for it. You just have to do it rightand then you have to like look at it in the negative conversation. Atleast that's how I understand. Is Just my opinion. The tactics that atleast works for me is that I look at it as recruitment. So,like, what if I have to recruit this individual? To me, he'sreally negative about like, you know what we're doing. How can I recruitthis individual? And recruitment does not end in this conversation? Then you haveto work with this in. Then you have to make them productive, thenyou have to make them, you know, add to the vision. Right.So, yeah, you're to you can just let you know, bluffit. You can't just fake it. You have to actually think it through. So that's like the tactic that I have used. Which one was forme? That like it helps streamline the mental model of intracting in and howimportant in credicle this mental model is. Wow, see, every entrepreneur rightlike, and I this is what I fundamentally believe in. Every entrepreneur hasa bit of arrogance, and I use the word arrogance in a very particularcontext. Right, what are you saying? You're saying these six people, right, that's what right, for six people will change healthcare all over theworld. That's arrogant, no matter how you want to package it. That'sarrogant. But that's part of every you know, the dream, every vision, right, and you have to know. Yeah, now you have to usethat arrogance. It's a it's a capital read. You have to usethat very intelligently because that can, you know, rop people. You're thewrong way and then they're they're out. You have to use it very intelligently, so you don't need to, you know, take somebodys in Awaya.This is a really bad and whatnot, or not it? Okay, good, got it, digest it, will alter it or will ignore it.Ignore it perfectly fine. To ignore it, right, and then move forward.It's your own conviction that you have to move ready, take forward.So, Anay, so like that. That's the most important math that hasto up and that's the mainten models. So I think too many people justautomatically ignore it. Okay, two or three and then two or three yearslater, Cos you remember, you know, after they spent either several hundred thousandmillions of dollars or just a lot of painstaking time and effort. Rights. It's either time or money or energy in this one sided, very narrowvision or path that it had to go and just ignoring all of that andend up finding out the law the wrong way. And a lot of timeswhen they start to have that epiphany and go gosh, maybe that guy wason to something, it's too late. They don't have any more money,they've burned all their investment opportunity, they don't have any more paying customers,or whatever that looks like, and now the company's going under. and tome that is really related to you know, where you've got this failure rate ofninety five percent of innovations that are brought to market fail, and it'snot because they have bad technology, it's because of this whole labyrineuth, ofthis commercialization process and having the the science, the art, the mental model,if you will, to be able to navigate that labyrineuth and find outyour path, and I love what you're saying, is that along that way, really being able to intelligently determine what conversations are worth it, what feedbackis worth it, and what do you...

...do with that? Yeah, see, I by no means right like an expert on innovation. So I justknow it was like it's like answer the guide what I think. Right,like, and when I've talked to other founders, the other companies, right, like I'm who have helped us. Writing. Well, health doesn't understandand develop these inside right. Yeah, what I've seen is that you willalways miss out on things, right, you will always make mistakes. That'spart of the game. Right. So there will be a time when youlike, oh no, now, what do I do? Right. Soall of that is there. Yes, you can change the proportion of it. That's I think that's what you're saying. Right. You can change the proportionof it by changing certain processes and, like you know, you're more individuallyand organizationally, right, like, by incorporating feedback in a more constructiveway and whatnot, or continuous way, that making continuous feedback loops part ofYour Business Strategy. Yeah, so and so, like I think that's like, and executing that is more difficult than just thinking about it, right.So, like, because you're all humans, it's difficult to say someone to yourbaby's ugly. Like, okay, like good luck now you're not liketaking this forward. So that's kind of where it is, I still think, at least for us. Rightly, I don't know what other for us. It's not a perfect process. Right, it's not a perfect process by anyI've interviewed hundreds of people on this show over the last three years.I've not come across one that help perfect process. It's a double let's awright time. You can't take all feedback. You need to have been a strictyour conviction, but you also have to evolve. So like get yousaid, balance, and I think that's for every individual and individual business todecide. So yeah, so this has been a phenomenal conversation. I canjust talk to you for hours and hours and we could just pay in herand go back and forth about these issues, in these challenges and how to solvethem in what works and what does it. But we are going tohave to wrap up here. Is there anything else that you want to sharewith our audience? And then also, how can folks get a hold ofyou at the end of the show? Okay, so a couple of things. Rightly, very very quick couple of things. Eve, I think we'vetalken enough about the mission. I just we trade that, right, likewhen, unfortunately, right, when you are a patient, you don't haveany leverage, right, like they in a in any if you go andbuy, like, you know, an egg, right, like from ourgroogle leger does an eggs from our Delli, versus like any who, you haveleverage, right, you can make here. There's a barter going onand you can. Then you don't. You're not a customer anymore, right, like you are actually at the mercy of health care to, you know, get better. That's actually what it is from most people. The ownersis on the community, right, and that community is innovators, at communities, healthcare and regulator and the governments and everyone, right, all these takeholdersto make that transaction a bit more human, right. So that's what you arethat's what druce is trying to enable a scale. Right. That's whatwe see technology can do. Can we make it just better? Can wejust, you know, avoid the ten things that will be tried and testedand just give this patient what will work for them? That's the technology,that's the impact. That's what we are trying to enable here, right,just make it more human and they have it tomorrow. So for me andDroyce will not be able to do this alone, right, like, andso we are looking for partners, players, stakeholders, anybody who wants to like, you know, life sciences, hell systems, right pairs, anyindividuals there. That's how we work, right. We love to talk topeople figure out how we can package this and take, you know, takeit forward, and that's the the you know, like it's that mission visionalignment that I'm always looking for the community to, you know, teach meand then take so that's one second is and more like we are always recruiting, you're always growing, you're always partnering. So, like you know, anyindividuals want to contribute towards this direction, please talk to us. Even ifit is not droys, right, will be other people that we knowand we can just make this go forward. So that's like my let's a perspectiveon just just want to work with...

...more and more good people to makethe mission. Yeah, yeah, that's great, awesome. So how Cayand folks get ahold of you if they want to eat with you, tobe a part of that. So my first name Mayer. May you areat dry slabscom, which is the website right, that's my email. Youcan send it to me directly and I'll, you know, send it to otherpeople. I'm on Linkedin my your sex saying a feel we do.Gonna actry like happy you dog and take it from there. Thank you somuch for joining me today. It's been a very, very valuable conversation.No, thanks a lot for having me. I really, really mean it.It's expeat to you. What I heard of was that you have seen, you know the Meta of these leg you know situations they want and it'snot obvious, right, like we can just talk about this. It's notobvious when you are in the mix of things, right it really, I'mpretty sure. If it happens to me, we caame doing this every day,right, like I'm missing that. So big have an external voice thatcan just by the way, when you you're not doing a so you knowthe A, the theory of it, but it is that exact detail.So I think, like I hope you, you know, connect and touch asmany entrepreent horse as possible and they don't help them, because I thinkthat's what you are agree that is my mission is to see that five percentsuccess rate move drastically over the next few years and make it happen. Thankyou so much. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busyworking to bring your life changing innovation to market and I value your time andattention. To get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe tothe show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher.Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who shared the show with friends andcolleagues. See You on the next episode of Health Innovators.

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