Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 83 · 1 year ago

Pivoting your way to profit w/ Lydia Zeller

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Innovation in healthcare goes far beyond brick-and-mortar interactions - we’re in the digital age, and that means digital solutions are carving out their space.

And when you pair the intelligence of digital technology with a human touch, the opportunity to revolutionize how your consumers interact with your product skyrockets.

Lydia Zeller, CEO at Kiio, pursued the idea of being a true partner with their B2B members and then doubled down on gathering hard ROI and delivering tangible outcomes. 

From product design and development to funding and all the way through commercialization, Kiio has perfected their secret sauce - and are ready to revolutionize musculoskeletal care.

In this episode, Lydia shares some of the strategies and insights her company is using to turn the world of digital innovation on its side - you don’t want to miss this one!

Here are the show highlights:

This simple understanding can yield big success (7:02)

Capabilities that are critical to driving engagement (9:10)

Hard ROI and how it creates a competitive advantage (15:10)

Why it’s important to know your next move when exploring contracts (22:58)

Whether you’re funding evidence or development, this investment is necessary (24:12)

Turn customers into fanatics to successfully build, grow, and scale your business (31:42)

Guest Bio

Lydia Zeller is CEO at Kiio, a digital therapeutic company focused on changing the approach to musculoskeletal (MSK) care.

A champion for driving healthcare innovation, Lydia has been involved in every facet of Kiio’s product and business development.

Her passion for delivering impactful results helped lead the charge for the company’s pivot into the digital musculoskeletal therapeutic market.

Lydia received her BA and Executive MBA specializing in Strategic Management from the University of Wisconsin - Madison

If you’d like to get in touch with Lydia after the show, feel free to reach out to her via her website Kiio.com or emai l her at lzeller@kiio.com. 

You're listening to health innovators, a podcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adopters who are shaping the future of healthcare. I'm your host, Dr Roxy Movie. Welcome back health innovators. On today's episode I am sitting down with Lydia Zeller, who's the president and CEO of Keio. Welcome to the show, Lydia. Hello, Dr Roxy, a pleasure. Thank you. I am so excited to have this conversation with you today. Before we get started into the details of your commercialization journey, maybe just give our listeners and viewers a little bit of information about your background and what you've been innovating these days. Fantastic Ko is a digital therapeutic company providing next generation musculoskeletal care. So we have an on demand digital first solution that guides individuals through a very personalized, evidence based CARE program specific to their type of pain, including exercise, education, digital support and the ability to interact one on one with a human being. One key differentiator for Kyo is that we are using software to deliver care. So this is not virtualization of wonder one clinical care, but really leveraging the power of technology to provide media on demand accessible care. We sell be to be to health insurance companies and large employers and then our solution is made available to their membership. And what about your background? Yeah, I have kind of an interesting non standard career path. I began actually in a niche wealth management firm on the operation side out in the San Francisco area. Then, when my twins were born, took a number, actually quite a few years out of you know, the Mars before standard career path. DID CONSULTING IN FEC regulatory management. I began at KIO actually as a volunteer right after KIO was founded. Wow, thousand and twelve. Yeah, my husband's about a story of working your way up. Indeed. Well, I think it's an inspirational story. I'm just going to take it, take a step back for a second and see. I think women sometimes and men who take time out of their out of their career to raise kids maybe to do something a little bit different. While my kids were growing up and I we actually homeschooled them all the way until they began college and I so I did consulting during that period in SEC regulation. But I think we undervalue the skill sets that are developed in Non Standard Times during our lives. I think that as a as a leader, being really looking at people and seeing more than just a paper resume, understanding skills and then being able to provide that mentorship and opportunity to really recognize star potential and nurture and develop that. I think that's something that all of us, those leaders, need to pay a lot of attention to. Well, you know, it's really interesting. I'm that's it's not necessarily the the focus or topic of our show, but I'm also professor of gender leadership and so I've studied and I teach a lot about what's happening in the workforce and what's happening with women in the workforce and kind of this gap that we have in the C suite with female leaders. And you know, one of the biggest reasons why we have so few leaders at the top that are female is because a lot of women are stepping away...

...for a decade or maybe longer to be able to be moms whether and not focus as much on their career, and then when they reconnect into the workforce, it's usually just really difficult to be able to work their ware up. So what an incredible and inspiring story. Yes, absolutely, tell us more. Absolutely, and I've certainly benefited from from some tastic mentors during my career. So when I joined Keio I wore multiple hats in our early years, really working in almost all areas of the company. I believe I was employee number three. Maybe after my my volunteering became, you know, sixty hours a week of volunteering. Hired and and again worked in multiple areas. I did most things other than, you know, software development. Wound up in product and Kyo did a did a vary stuff. Is really a different company today than we were when we started. So Kyo was founded on the premise of bringing evidence based and member centric care to physical therapy, but developing a hardware sensor to very precisely quantified muscle deficit and then a content library of over one thousand eight hundred filly animated therapeutic exercises that a provider could tailor to the specific patient needs, deliver very personalized home exercise program to the mobile device of the patient get feedback back remotely. That original business plan was flawed from from the perspective that we were reducing top line revenue for our perspective clients. Yeah, which is just in the fee for service business model. It just the economics were not there. So I was asked at the end of two thousand and sixteen, I was product strategy at that point, to take a look at our technology, to take a look at how where we felt healthcare is headed, what is really interesting and new and care delivery models, how we can really leverage the best of technology, evidence based care, behavioral economics, consumer motivators, what consumers are wanting and really develop a product that that skates to where the pucket is headed. Yeah, the Genesis of our pivot into digital therapeutics and our shift in market focus to selling to the at risk entities, so payers. So how has that pivot paid off in the last three to four years? It's been a fantastic success. We've never looked back. So we launched with our first health plan client at the beginning of two thousand and seventeen. Have added clients nationally since then. We made an intentional we don't even operate in the in the original business of yeah, it's as listeners will understand. As a small company, focus is is critical. You can't be doing too many different things. We still have the technology. It's the basis that are the foundation that our digital therapeutic was built off of. But right now we're not focusing on now. So when you kind of Look Back Act at your commercialization journey, maybe before even after the pivot, you know what are some of the and I think you already touched on one, but what are some of the key decisions that you made that you think really made a difference in the success that you've been able to achieve to date? Yes, absolutely well, it's this sounds so simple, but when I have conversations with people founding companies sometimes you wonder whether it's really been properly thought through and to be honest, I don't think we properly thought that through in our original business premise. And really need to make sure that you have spoken had multiple...

...times with multiple people in your in both your both your client perspective, clients as well as perspective and users, if they're not the same as your clients. So really standing the pain points of the market that you want to serve, understanding how you're going to differentiate within that market, how you're going to, in the case of additional therapeutic, make sure that you're getting the end users to engage with you, because you can have a wonderful product and if nobody uses it, it isn't going to bring any value. Right. So truly understanding the market and all the stakeholders in the market, all of your users, and then, all so just as importantly, making sure that you have aligned economic interests, because even if you're developing a product that serves needs, people enjoy using etc. If you're not aligning those economic interest and we all know them, aignment of economic interest in healthcare is a pretty complex beast and not as easy to attain everyone might think. Yep, yeah, you're right, even even the payment structure. So, for example, Keyo can invoice our clients directly, but we can also build through the claim system using CPT codes, and that makes it so much easier, particularly for our employer clients. Yeah, yeah, so you touched on something. I love to you to kind of just dig in a little bit deeper when you talked about, you know, the adoption of the technology. So I think you touched on something that's so important. Is that really closing a sale right and getting a client to buy the solution is definitely not the endpoint. I think we know that, but it's also, in a lot of ways a beginning point as well. So do you have any of those adoption strategies that maybe have worked really well for you guys or how you have looked at that being a key ingredient to your commercial success? That's a fantastic point. After Roxy, absolutely and we've continued to learn and continue to improve in that area from the beginning. So I'll give you an example. In our very first implementations, Kyo did not have the capabilities to run the awareness campaigns in the members of our clients. So or first help clients, we relied on the plans themselves to run those campaigns. We quickly learned that having those capabilities was critical to drag them engagement. Yeah, and and so. So Kyo runs those campaigns and we've attained really fantastic engagement. In an employer population we will capture between twenty and forty five percent of the addressable population. In health population it's always lower, more like ten percent, primarily because health plans don't have as great contact information for their for their memberships, as as employers typically do. We always like to work synergistically together with our clients so that we are utilizing client specific changels, as well as email, direct mail potentially text, Yep on the Keyo side. And and you know, it's it's how you craft the awareness campaign that really determines its success, and so we've continually over the years cap increase our capture rates. Lessons for a lot of that's the secret of a company, right. I mean you talk about what's differentiation, what secret sauce, and and those campaigns are definitely play into that. We really learned that engagement doesn't begin I think this was maybe the most critical learning and it's a pretty simple one, but engagement doesn't begin with the first time the member...

...uses our APP right. It begins with the first time they learn about us and how that message is framed. What information is provided to the member? What are the reasons to believe? What's the fun is it? Is it a joyful message versus a scary message? Right? I mean we're in pain management, so you can craft a message that shows people in pain reduced your pain or you can craft more joyful message about hope and and empowerment, right, and they have a very different impact. So really thinking about engagement is as starting right at the beginning and making sure you're setting the tone that that that you want right from the beginning. Well, you guys have achieved so much success. You must have, and I love that you talked about how and transparently and candidly that you know you didn't have it all figured out in the beginning and like all of us, you know you're learning along the way and you know obviously you're following some best practices right out of the gate, but then you're learning about maybe specific patient populations are member populations within different health plans and being able to continue to shape that I mean because right now, I mean there's hundreds of thousands of really amazing technologies out there that are like dusty cobwebs right. So the engagement pieces such a critical component of the commercial success. So I won't ask you any more details so you don't have to disclose any more about your secret sauce. One thing that you just mentioned there, which is not only the continuing to learn but that your strategy may be different in different populations. So we had a wonderful success. Qures worked with both both our employer groups but then across all lines of business in our health plan clients. So not only commercial but also Medicare advantage. Yeah, Medicaid and market place, and you know, you don't provide quite the same messaging into your Medicare advantage that you do into your Medicaid or your commercial right. You want to be sensitive to your audience. We put out a press release with one of our health plan clients recently, children's community health plan, who offers Medicaid as well as marketplace, and we did a relaunch with them towards the end of two thousand and twenty and saw incredible results in their Medicaid population. That's a really challenging population to engage because that population has so many challenges in their daily lives and children. Really wanted to provide a fully covered there's there's there's no copay or deductible for access to kill provide very accessible, broadly applicable care to these vulnerable members in a time of great need, right because covid has been, you know, particularly challenging for for these populations, and we were just so pleased with the update. I mean it really highlights the need but also that ability of the the vendor and the plan to work together and successfully engage that Ye, and we've seen fantastic results. That's amazing. That's really wonderful. So so I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about proving Roi. So this is something that you know, you'd communicated to me before. That was something that was really important in critical for Keyo and and I want to just talk about that a little bit more because a lot of times we have clients or we have companies that are even guests on the show and they're talking about their value proposition, they're talking about how we lower cost and you know, it's one thing to say that we improve outcomes, increase member satisfaction and lower costs. Right, the TRIFECTA there, but...

...having the evidence to back up the claims that were making game is a real game changer for the business. So what was that like in the beginning, trying to develop and build up that evidence, and then how has it been, you know, kind of either another weapon in your arsenal, or how is it helped you really kind of create that competitive advantage? That's a fantastic question. Thank you. Yes, and that would be another piece of advice I would have is darkas early, because they take a while to achieve, and in your initial contracts try to build in a collaboration and around actually examining our live. So in our case we we formed great partnerships with our with our early health plan contients. They wanted to look at that Ury to so they agreed to send US claims data. So what we did is three at this point. Now Longitudinal plans. State the base studies looking quantifying the medical utilization and spend in Keyo participants versus non Keyo participants, spetistically similar reference group, and we found very significant results. So between forty two and seventy percent lower back being related medical spend in Kyo participants. We examine particular areas that are quite impactful. So, for example, urgent care we have over a ninety percent sent reduction and urging care that in Kyo participants really related to our immediacy. In one study, seventy nine percent reduction in build opioid prescriptions compared to a one percent production in the reference group. In a second study of twenty four percent reduction in opioid prescriptions in Kyo participants, decreases in MRI's, in injections, in surgeries and Zodiat and say the ablation, all these over utilized and expensive diatna and treatments that don't just cost money, it's that they can actually do harm. Right, when you don't need a surgery, you're actually doing hard to net people. It's like changing. Yeah, it's absolutely so. So having that cool. So that's hard. Our one that's Roy actually looking at the claims data. That's very, very, very different than Roi calculations that are based on either a predictive model. Yeah, for example, studies show that PT delivers x percent savings as compared to traditional care. We feel that we are why percent better than PT. So you will have an ro lie of Z right. That's just addictive model. The other type of Roy discussion that gets bandied around is Roi based on self reported like cliness to consume services, and again that's just very different to how evidence May instant and actually looking at somebody's claims data. So that has has been tremendously beneficial to us as well as to our clients and and certainly is a is a strong differentiator in the sales process. So there's two things that you mentioned that I want to kind of go back to. That I think would be really important for our viewers and our listeners to kind of know a little bit more about. One is the the agreement with those early customers, whether their pilots or proof of concept customers or whether they're, you know, fullblown cut just early stage customers. What are some of the important things that need to be included in those agreements up front, because a lot of times I'm speaking with innovators and they're just so except. They're either so desperate or so excited to have one of their target customers say yes that they often forget about the negotiation...

...power that they still have at the table, even with those early customers. So often they might have a couple of pilots or a couple of early customers, but they still don't have the evidence that they need because they didn't negotiate those those, you know, data elements up front. So just touch on that a little bit, you know, to kind of help our audience. Absolutely and and obviously in certain contracts you have more or less leverage right or in our very first one it wasn't actually written into the contract. We just developed over that year such a close relationship, because one thing that really stands out with Kyo is how much we care about our clients. We are good partners. Yeah, we've got some fantastic quotes about being a dream to work with. Her phenomenal to work with. I'm on hugging terms with with the Majity so so a Sovid right before covid and hopefully come in again one of these dyes, right, yeah. But so, even though it wasn't in the contract, we were able to come to an agreement when it was time to do that claims analysis, and they did by the day to it was sent off to a third party analyst and we were able to provide them with analysis and that was very beneficial to them as well. Actually, in that case, Kyo was their first digital solution. We've become the model for their entire population health management strategy on the digital side. So learned from us to in at our previously none of their programs had measurable Roi. Yeah, yeah, I think. Yeah, and I think that's a really good point, because whoever's the internal champion of this initiative, you know, they have just as much to gain as you do. Right, to be able to demonstrate that real tangible are a lot. I absolutely absolutely you can usually find a way to put it in the contract that is palatable. For both parties. So, for example, one of the contracts we just wrote, we always have in there that they will share data with us, we will share the analysis back with them and then we have the right to use that data in an anom anonymized format. Yeah, you won't publish it using their logo without their permission, but we can use it as long as it can't be linked back to them. And wait for healthcare to change that. I mean, you know, when you think about the possibilities and other industries, when you have success and you know to be able to like shout that from the rooftops of like such and such clients specifically, you know had these results, and then you get into healthcare, with health plans and hospital systems, and they're like, just don't use my logo or my name. Yes, yes, over time, though, what we found is is that trust is built and they let you use when there because they're proud of it as well. It's always exists late of leadership on their part as well. Yeah, yeah, Yep, Hey, it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves you need to make to survive and thrive in the new covid economy. I want every health innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivot strategy, which is why I created the covid proof your business pivot kit. The pivot kit is a step by step framework that helps you find your best pivot strategy. It walks you through six categories you need to examine for a three hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses. As you make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to make sure you can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details and opportunities. Learn more at legacy DNACOM backslash kit. So some of...

...the things I usually, you know, kind of encourage innovators early on to start thinking about is, you know, what are those key metrics, what are those key data elements that they need and make that part of that contracting process up front. And then even, you know, from a sales standpoint of you know, like what do you want to happen next? So if a, B and C happen, well, how does like? What are the next steps? You know, is that like a program extension? Is it a stroke program expansion? And you know, it may not always be the right thing to include, you know, in that contract up front, but sometimes it is and it can help you, you know, for residual income or long term client relationships, being able to have that up front. Absolutely absolutely. So, you know, obviously we try to do full contracts as opposed to pilot contracts, but with the job both. You know, they often will walk away town pilot and making sure that you mutually understand what are the what are the metrics for success? How are we measuring success of this program and then, as you to your point, what are the next steps for moving past into a broader expansion? Yep, so the second thing that you mentioned that I think is really important is patients. So the other thing that I often hear from innovators is, you know, like I just I don't have the resources right now, at this early and our company to invest in these types of studies. You know, will do that down the road and I and and I think the patients it as well as the resources that are required to be able to facilitate something like this. But I think for every single one that overlook that or think that they're going to do that later is really doing themselves a disservice because it's such a key ingredient to the commercial success. It's like you got to do it as you got to started as soon as you can. So just talk about the patients and then maybe even the resource side of that. No, that's a great question. It does take a long time because to do to do a good claims database study, and I want to be clear, this is not a randomized control trial. Right, that's quite less effective in a when you're looking at the economics in a in a in a population, because people behave differently if they are in a clinical trialut than they do just in a normal life. So what we're Ikingu when this program is offered in a real population, what happens? Who engages and what happens in their claims data? Yeah, so you don't have the costs in this type of study that you would have with a with a RCT, but it does take time. So to do a good job of it, you really want one year of claims data post enrollment and then you'd wait for the claims to filter in. So really, you know, you can't even begin to do the analysis for about fourteen months. Yeah, teen months after you began the program so it's a time commitment the resources to do it, though there are definitely very skilled health economist people who will do contract under the AA to do a claims analysis for you. It doesn't have to be resources for more than the company. So are sure? Yep. I was thinking more of the alongs the lines of funding, not people resources, especially for some of these earlier stage startups. But again, I think that you know, when you're talking about the the capital that you have to work with or when you're talking about raising funds to be able to build and grow the company, that you know the having that clinical evidence should be part of the plan absolutely from the beginning. Right. We need to be able...

...to fund that just as much as we need to be able to fund the development of the technology solution. Absolutely money very well spent. Yep. Yep. So you've also talked in the past a lot about culture and how important culture is and you know, for someone like yourself who is, in you know, one of the early employees and then you know, worked your way up and has been leading the company for a while now, talk about how the culture, how important the culture you has been to your commercial success and then maybe how it's evolved in some of them, maybe even the challenges that you faced, because it's very different to build and cultivate a culture with taking a team of ten versus a team of fifty or a hundred or even more. So just kind of tell us a little bit about that, your experience with that. I love that question. It's something I actually think about quite a bit. So Ko has grown quite a bit in the last year. We historically have had very long way retention. Right, people do not leave Ko. We really have a sense of family in our company and that sense of family, the sense of values, the deep caring that we have for both our clients and our members is integral. It is integral to the company and is something that is really, really, really important to me to retain as we scale, and that's not necessarily an easy thing. I know many companies who have struggled with maintaining that level of partnership, about of being an outstanding partner to clients in your members as they scale and grow rapidly, and I think a big part of that is looking carefully at your highs, at the at what type of environment do two people want to be in. We if you ask Keo folks, it'll be we want to be doing something that we're passionate about, where we know that we're helping people. That's really important to them. They want to see the impact that we're having. They want to work hard, that have fun and be a cover to support environment. Doing that and thinking through that as you're adding team members is really important. But you know, it's also fantastic bringing in new team members because you're bringing in new perspectives, right, and you're bringing in both different experiences and different perspectives. And we actually now, and look what COPD has done. We, all of our team members, were in vans and Wisconsin back at the beginning of two thousand and twenty. We have folks all over the kind. During that we have worked in Boston's and Francisco and Seattle, twin cities and Austin. And you know, if you would have asked me two years ago, could our head of product not be physically located with the development team, I would said no, I don't think that's going to work. All right, right, yeah, well, and I think you're in good company. I mean I would say that majority of the healthcare market as a whole and in the leaders have had to reimagine what's possible because of covid in in being thrusted into this remote world and in virtual selling or, you know, distant selling, and then also leading teams in a virtual environment. So our company has been virtual from day one, so for the past eleven years, and there's a number of things that I just really love about it. One is that, you know, I'm not forced to just tap into talent that's local. So I mean, wow, why when you open up the country or even the world right so we don't even have to, you know, focus just on national boarders? Me and the amount of perspective in talent that you're able to tap into is just incredible. And then also even from a client standpoint, to you know, you able to get to work with so many amazing people around the country or around the world when you're not just really focused...

...local. I mean, local businesses are great, but it's just nice to not have those board boundaries or boarders sometimes too. Absolutely it's one of the things that defines our right and not do roughly bound as a digital solution, we can provide, you know, outstanding muscules gold appear to your members across the country, right, not just in one not plied to brick and mortar boundaries. And you know, so it's been fantastic to be in our own team and I think that's such it's so ironic, right. It's like, oh no, with your customers and your users, like Maly, know, you don't even need these geographical boundaries, but we thought we did as an organization in order to operate and function, and now we realize like no, the users don't need those boundaries and neither do we. Yeah, yeah, and that's great. So before we wrap up here, I want to, you know, just kind of brainstorm a challenge that I think a lot of folks have that we really haven't talked about on the show, I don't think, really at all. Is, you know, even even as the company grows, sometimes the the the profits that the company has developed get reinvested into the technology or the product right, or or maybe even human capital, and so very often it leaves marketing teams with limited budgets and limited resources. Or you might be in the early stages where you're you know, you're just still working with a really small or limited budget. So that you know, the challenge is how do you really expand awareness and word of mouth with such a small budget to work with? And I think a lot of few folks in the in the audience here will have experienced that challenge. Is that something that you guys have faced at some point? And then let's just talk about that that I love. That absolutely is something that we have faced and still face to some extent. So between two thousand and seventeen, when we launched our product, and mid two thousand and twenty, when we close to funding round and we're really able to start growing from from a human capital perspective, we know sales or marketing. So all of those accounts were closed by me as product, and that's just really, really challenging. I like to say that we are the best kept secret in digital Musculo skel don't care. We have been around two thousand and seventeen. We've really established clinical outcomes, we have US abolished hard Roi claims, databased outcomes and yet we have had almost no marketing. So our brain visibility is is very low at this point and I've just brought in in January a fantastic head of marketing and her key focus on the B Tob side is raising that brand visibility, right. Yeah, how people about Keyo, sharing Keyo and sharing our vision, sharing what we've accomplished, how we can help you, and she still has fairly limited resources. But really try to use social media, trying to use our clients, who are wonderful advocates for us, doing press releases for them with US publishing, you know, putting out their information about our our outcomes, getting members to do to share testimonials, which many of them are are eager to do. All those all of those things can help. I firs, what are some of your thoughts are as well? Yeah, so, so what you just said is so critical because evidence shows that the way, I don't know if you've ever heard of the book, crossing the Chasm Right where you've got a lot of companies that have some success with the early market right. They can get early market customers, they can penetrate that first sixteen percent of their target...

...market, but crossing over that chasm is where they really, you know, just statistically fall short and really struggle to be able to like build and grow and scale the company. And a lot of the evidence shows that one of the ways to be able to overcome that is to be able to make sure that your early customers are raving fans and that you are facilitating that advocacy, you're facilitating that word of Mouth Marketing and promotion. So a lot of times will have clients or customers that are raving bands, but we might not be leveraging that to the fullest extent. So you know, when I'm working with folks, we divide in every single target market into that diffusion of innovation curve where you know the first sixteen percent are. You know they're going to be attracted to different messages, different value propositions, different product configurations. Those are the ones that want the new, the exciting, never been done before. As you start to grow, after you penetrate those now you're getting into a different market segment, which is that mainstream market would they tend to be a little bit more risk averse and they don't want anything that's new and revolutionary and never been done before. So the only way you're going to be able to get those people to buy is going to be for those peers and their community to be able to say how this is trusted, this becomes standard process right, and so that messaging shift and then being able to leverage those early customers to be able to promote that like those are. So it's really more of those early customers, with the word of mouth more so than it is even the brand that helps cross that chasm into the other market segment, and a lot of people overlook the the critical significance of that distinction. Absolutely, absolutely, and I think that's fantastic advice. And if you can, if you're a champion, clients are armed with actual yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, clinical at right. So the clinical evidence, like absolutely, you guys are onto that. The testimonials. You know, one thing that I'm a huge advocate for is video testimonials. I think that those are so much more powerful than static testimonials or text base with the picture. There's tools out there like video peel, video PELCOM that help facilitate the the collection of those. They get really easy, right. So you know, in my experience, when you sell, you ask a customer to like Hey, can you give me a testimonial? They're like yeah, sure, but then they never get to it, right. And when you use a tool like this where you send them a text message that's a link that then opens the camera on their phone and gives them the prompt of the three questions to ask. Like all of a sudden, your participation rate in those video testimonials seem to increase pretty heavily and they even have an integration into your website to where, you know, you can pop those onto the website like really, really easy. So video testimonials is something that I'm always advocating for, even if it takes time and effort and getting folks to do it. It's worth poking them and proving them a number of times to kind of get that, because when someone, you know, when the brand, says ABC, that's completely different when one of their peers in the community, you know, says something. So seeing that on video. The other thing that I think is off like just so often overlooked in healthcare is the power of the Google business page. And and so a lot of times come healthcare brands will have a google business page, but it's like literally like their address and their phone number, maybe even a description, but they're not really leveraging that to the fullest. And so we...

...were working with a client not that long ago and created a campaign where we launched a customer satisfaction survey and if they were satisfied, we routed them to the Google business page to post a review. If they weren't satisfied, we routed them to the team that needed to trouble shoot that and investigate what was going on and solve that problem. And it might have been with a you know, like just a fluke, single instance, or it might have been something major that really needed to change in the business or the business model or, you know, how things are being executed, and that Google business ranking shot through the roof. And then that's a huge competitive advantage. And then, of course, you know, Google and the Algorithm is going to put so much more weight on the pages that are have all of those reviews, right. So now you're talking about like organic, Free Seo. When someone's going online to search for a solution like yours, you know your page is going to rank really high because you've got all of those reviews instead of cobwebs there. So I want to share that with you and also share that with our viewers and our listeners, because I think like that's a free thing that you can do that can have a lot of real business and marketing impact. Fantastic advice. Yeah, so, Lydia is there anything else that you would want to share with our audience today before we wrap up? Just that what an incredible space we're in right and and it's scary. Thanks so even so much. In the last year, you know, there's your has been so challenging for so many people, but as just heightened the interest in the acceleration and the adoption of digital healthcare, I truly believe the future is so bright. Yeah, absolutely, he's the day right. Those of us that are in this market, it's it is. It's a very exciting time to see that kind of accelerated adoption because I think we'll really truly be able to transform the healthcare industry and a way that we might have just really suffered through a little bit more for another ten years right now and we're just we're really going to be able to transform lives and a whole different way because of the acceleration of the adoption of digital health. Yes, and I think that you know, previously, you we've had employers really helping drive that acceleration and now we have the added benefit of a actual poll from members confer me, from consumers, as opposed to be Bush, and that whole from consumers is going to be very, very, very powerful. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more so. If anyone wants to speak to you about your commercialization journey or even about your solution, how will they get ahold of you? Absolutely you can contact me through our website, qocom, or email me, Zeller at Kocom. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. It's been a very rich and fun conversation today. Likewise, thanks so much. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market and I value your time and attention. To get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening, and I appreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Health Innovators.

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