Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 88 · 5 months ago

What successful followers do: Time-to-market decisions w/Kevin Dillard


Historically risk-averse entrepreneurs are the unicorns of start-ups: myths, legends, and, well, really hard to find!

Finding one who not only made the leap but made it successfully? Yeah, we’re talking Holy Grail material now.

Kevin Dillard is one such unicorn. Throwing risk to the wind, he left his job as in-house counsel for the American Association of Orthodontists to launch Clear Blue Smiles.

Knowing he could make a positive difference for both orthodontists and patients was his foundation - and a keen nose for strategic marketing was his ace in the hole.

With over 18 years in the industries he served, Kevin hit the market late - but with all the right strategies in place, and he is making his mark in a big way.

If you want to hear about Kevin’s journey - and how he found unintentional marketing research gold inside a podcast channel - you’re going to want to tune into this episode!

Here are the show highlights:

  • How a normally risk-averse entrepreneur makes the leap (10:03)
  • This is how powerful an emotionally appealing story can be (14:54)
  • Podcasts can get you seen and heard for a minimal investment (17:26)
  • How to do marketing research without even trying (21:50)
  • What does the future of virtual communications/healthcare look like? (27:24)
  • If it sounds too good to be true - stop right there, sometimes it ISN’T (30:20)

Guest Bio

Kevin Dillard is CEO and Co-Founder of Clear Blue Smiles, a company that’s bringing the most comprehensive ortho-monitored remote treatment alignment options mainstream.

Kevin is an orthodontic industry thought leader and legal expert with nearly 18 years experience as an executive at the American Association of Orthodontists (AAO).

He was also the founder and co-host of the AAO’s Business of Orthodontics podcast series, which focused on legal risk management and business advice for orthodontists.

Kevin received his undergraduate degree from Southern Illinois University (Carbondale) before obtaining his law degree from Saint Louis University School of Law.

If you’d like to reach out to Kevin, you can email him at or reach out to him on his website at

You're listening to health, innovators,a podcast and video show about the leaders influencers and early, adoctors who are shaping the future of health care on your host Doctor Roxeymovie welcome back health innovators. Ontoday's episode I have a really interesting guest with me, KevinDillard, who is the CEO and Co founder of clear blue smiles, welcome to theshow Kevin. Thank you, Dor roxy good to be here. Thank you. It's great to haveyou so for our audience, just to get started. Tell us a little bit aboutyour background and what you've been innovating these days. Yeah. Thank you! So I'm a lawyer bytrade I spent about eighteen years at the American Association of forth of ashere where I live in St Louis. Not a lot of people know by the way,interesting interesting aside at that modern Orthodontia vinted in St Louis,which is why the Association is here. It's the oldest mark, just dentalspecialty in the world actually and as a pretty large breach yeah. So I spend eighteen years theremost of the time as their general counsel, so the chief lawyer chiefpokes in later days about clear liner therapy and some of the variouscompanies that have been evaded in the sector and what they've been doing withadvertising and treatment, but it the entire eighteen years span.I spent in Washington DC doing some lobbying coordination with Congress andFederal Administration and working with those folks and in generally, gettingto know and work with a lot of different orthodontist being inside theindustry, working with the board of trustees working with variousvolunteers and working with other companies that the sort of the industry,some of the big names that everybody would know yeah, and so then, what led you to clear bluesmiles? Well, so it less five, six years that Iwas there, I would say, since about two thousand and fifteen there was. There, was a large influx ofchange in the industry where, for the long for a very long time decades.Actually, if not since the inception of modern ORTHODOCIA, most Orthodox, Iwould say, ninety percent plus were done entirely by orthodontist and a brick and mortarsetting where you go with the traditional, a man almost everybody's.Had it at some point right, you go to the orthodonture fourteen years old,you get your braces you're retreated for a couple O yearsto go into retention and you're, going to the worth and honest once a month around two thous N, one thousand ninehundred and ninety nine. The big innovation was deslie a linecorporation. They came in with the really the first big brand name, clearline or therapy, which could then take some people's smiles and instead ofusing the metal brackets and wires, be able to move people's teeth withplastic, which a lot of folks at the time, especially adults, really like,because adults in particular don't want... be burdened with the stigma, perhaps ofwearing middle braces and then in about two thousand and fifteen. A couple ofcompanies came in that big names traded on the Nasdaq right now and they saidwell, you don't even need to see an orthodontist you all you need to do istake an impression of your teeth with you know, originally with the old whatthey call Algemer, p, vs and things that most people have. If they hadbraces where you can a bite in this goy stuff, I've done that it's not apleasant experience, but they would what they would do is sell those kitsand then Deniston would review that record and then design a treatment based around clearliner therapy and then mail it to the patient. Well, they could afford to do that formuch cheaper than a traditional break and morter practice for a variety ofrecent there's, no brick and mortar worth an us to pay no landscaping bills.No dental assistants, no extra machines. What they were missing, though, andwhat I would often say when I was a spokes on this exact issue with theAmerican Association Orthos. Reporters would always want to know,but what's wrong with this, and I would say we'll step back and let's not talkabout it in terms of right or wrong. Let's talk about what the patient isnot getting as opposed to a traditional break and mortar practice, and thereare a number of things that they're not getting. One is assurance that it'seven healthy to move any teeth, regardless of how bad their biter orexclusion is what they call it in trade, because if you don't know what theroots look like, underneath the gun line and if you don't have a real goodpicture of your Gum, health or period Donald Health, you don't know if it'ssafe to move those teeth and if you start applying force to teeth, youcould actually lose the teeth or lose Guntag an entire act. There were some mediareports of that happening. At the same time, though, it became pretty clearthat the traditional worth of on us were pushing back against any kind ofinnovation. H. They wanted to dig their heels in and say every patientregardless should go to a brick and morter orthon. ONIST and I an a coupleof worth and honest that I'd known for a very long time on a particular BillCrutchfield, I had known him for since two thousand and four, I believethrough various work of the Ara we kind of had a similar idea and said. Well, there is a way to dothis, not every single patient, as matter offact, quite a few, maybe even a majority, don't need to come into anoroid practice once a month once every other month and they can still havetheir Orthodoxi achieve safely and effectively. You just need two thingsand those two things are comprehensive diagnostics at the beginning oftreatment to make sure that that treatment is safe and then rigorous,ongoing monitoring virtually if we put those two things together, we believethat even the most established, traditional worth of honest, would takea look at that and say you know what I would be comfortable treating patientsin this scenario. Even if I never see...

...them, I just need to see thediagnostics and leverage the incredible artificial intelligence, it's availablewith simply with patients using their smart fops to be able to take picturesand videos of their own teeth. So what we did is say you know this is itis possible for some patients to do it safely and effectively. We need thosetwo things. So what I think is so incredible aboutthe story that you just told is you know a lot of the research that I'vedone when it comes to market entry like at what point as an innovator, are wegoing to enter into the market? There's a lot of myth around being first tomarket is like waiting strategy right, so that would be kind of like vis, aline that you just described about twenty years ago right the they createa whole new category within the space. But what you just described is a verythorough, competitive analysis over a period of time and really being able toidentify where that value gap is and then being able to create a positioningstrategy in a brand, a whole platform or solution around that value gap, andI think that's a missed opportunity for most innovators to actually look at itreally strategically like that and figure out what space that they couldown as as a late entrant or you know, a lass follower into the market. That'sone of the advantages that you have is that you didn't have to go through theexpense of creating the category or creating the solution right andcreating awareness and education around this phenomenon. But what you do haveis you get a chance to see where do they fail or where it? Where is the gapthat the there's still a market? That's not being serviced and then creating asolution or a business model around that? And so it's just brilliant, and Iwant to make sure I'm pointing that out for the listeners, because it'ssomething that we should all do. I find that sometimes people fall into thetrap of why I want to go and be Visi Im, and I want to meet you that right. Iwant to create something. That's just like them, because they've gotsignificant markets here. They've had a lot of success, but so let me go and dowhat they did and it's it can be, but it's usually not a profitable, so youmight have a business, but it might not be a profitable business, whereas whatyou're doing what you're describing is really very different, brilliant yeah?No, I appreciate that and and as a matter of fact, I me to your point wehad when we were you know in every business cycle or in every businessstart up. You kind of have the Conte concept and before you you go forwardwith with branding and spend the money on website and starting to go, go tomarket strand. So speak you. I think a good idea, which is what we did wastake it to some of the people that we really trust in Orthagoras and inpeople in the industry, not necessarily worth an honest but marketing. Folkswho had worked at some of these big companies and said here's our concept,you know what do you think of this and...

...many of them actually suggested. We doexactly what you said. You know. Well, why don't you go for those really the low end market, the low valuetargets, the the very cheap for a for lack of abetter term cheap strategy, because there's a lot of money down there andthe response was well. You know, first of lots of crowded, I mean there's,there's a number of of businesses who are doing that smile direct club, bite,candid are kind of operating on that mat on that model, along with someothers, and we said that's not what we're in it for we're in it, because welove the field of Orthodox and we want to protect their expertise becausewe respect the expertise, even though I'm not an north of donaster. Ibenefited from a very you know, complex case when I was thirteen years old. IfI was thirteen years old old now, I would not be a candidate for my owncompany's product. I would necessarily have to go to an orthodontia and wekind of saw thatt market slipping away from any of them, and we said we're inthis to help existing orthodontist traditional worth is to be able tooffer a service that competes at a very, very high level, with some of thoseother people who are in taking that market chair away from themso yeah. I agree, I think the one of thethings I think is so interesting, and I want to just kind of dig into this. Alittle bit is you're a lawyer by trade right by your background and when Ithink of lawyers and legal teams that I've worked with over the years,they're usually really risk a verse aright. So someone like myself thatcomes from a marketing background, there's usually a lot of wrestling thathappens between marketing and legal right like yes, we can say this: No, wecan't. Yes, we can build. No, we can't, you know kind of thing, and- and so I you know in all of my twenty twentyfive years- a career- I've never come across a lawyer. That was also anentrepreneur because it's like such a high risk, youknow like bold, move right, it's like you, you believe in something thatdoesn't exist right. You were a pioneer or a change agent, so just kind of talkabout what that journey was like for you from, and I don't want to say,transitioning the way because you're still a lawyer transitioning into the world ofentrepreneurship. Well, that's a great question. Iappreciate that the point being made there. You know I worked out. I spentmy entire time as were I'm kind of unique in this regard. I legal field. Ispent the entire time as a lawyer as a in house corporate council, which iswhich a very different animal than than law firms, and we work with many manylaw, forks that I hired just to do outside legal work from from contractwork to to probably the most important thing in any trade association, whichis an I trust and that's where it gets. Really, you have to a lawyer. There hasto be very sensitive to statements, actions motives that could be in acompetitive yeah in the market, because...

...what you essentially have anassociation is a group of competitors coming together. There's the obviousnatural human tendency to protect their market, protect the prices protectmargins, and you know in a free market society with the Sherman, an Atres Act,you just that's just not legal, but at the same time my job there was both to protect theassociation and I, but not just say you can't do that. I was leaned on very heavily there tosay not just that. You can't do that. But if this is your ultimate goal,there's an you can't do this, but you can do abd another way to do it, so itwas forced me to be in a more strategic role which I enjoyed in saying. Youknow there might be some things you can't do that you want to do, but ifthe end goal is something there's another way to do it, it would be okaywhich, in that strategic thinking, works very closely and and, as I think,served me well in developing strategies for business, notjust legal strategies but developing how we attack a certain market or rowabout putting together certain deals. So did you leave the Aao and decide tostart clear, loose smiles? Was it that decision that you were making of, likeI'm, leaving in house counsel what I'm leaving this kind of corporate job? Ifyou will to be an entrepreneur or was it some other transition? You know Ilove the fact when I was there, there was a there wasa leadership change and at the top with the CO, and there was a lot of changegoing on and I know it. Maybe the sounds a little porny. I don't know,but I thought at the time it's time I'd been there for eighteen years I hadseen the market move. I see what's happening, I'm going to be able toeffect change and be able to move into this market to innovate in a way toprotect the profession that I respect in a profitable way, and I can I canaffect that change better on the outside than I can on the outside, because you know I'm a energetic kind of go.Getter kind of Guy Strategic Thinker and associations for the value thatthey serve in our society can sometimes move very slowly and be very huracanand you're. Dealing with you know in the case Tao, there's there's, you knowprobably five hundred orthodontist, who were involved in leadership at somelevel that have a say in what's happening, and you know I love it allthey're great people, but in any kind of organization like that things movemore slowly than in an organization that where there are three decisionmakers, so it's been that it's been a pleasurekind of transitioning. Out of that to be able to say if the owners of thecompany and the chief employees come together and say we have an idea. Wewant to do this if it makes sense, we don't need to go through a nine monthprocess of councils and committees and...

...boards to be able to do it. We just doit and that's it's a great thing: Yeah Yeah! So let's talk about so we kind oftouched on positioning a little bit but messaging right. So what was what was that journey like for you froma messaging strategy of like really being able to home in that to sink thevalue proposition in a way that's going to resignated quickly and significantlywith your with the target audience yeah? So you know one of the benefitsbeing at the a o. As I was privy to a lot of a lot of information, you know that was publicly availablethat you just kind of see talked about, and you know back. We were talking afew minutes ago about the market and where we fit in the market and a lot ofchallenges, a start up have that, fortunately we don't have is is provingwhy they need to exist or proving that there's a market there. In our case, itwas really obvious that there is obviously a market for Artha treatment where you don't have togo to an office. That's obvious! Those of thosecompanies are out there they're worth billions of dollars, there's obviouslya market for brick and mortar high touch high quality, very expensivetreatment, they've been around for a hundred years, and it was just obvious to us that thevast middle market here is is available to say. Well, we, you know you can, butif you don't want treatment for you or your child, that you're not completelycomfortable with, and you still don't want to go to the ortheris. There'sanother option and that's us, but we also like to tell a story and-and I'm happy to say our firm- that we work with to come up with our brand orlogo has won some o words recently about our long ago, because we like totell a story which I think is important for any start out. No matter whatthey're doing is to explain not only what they do,obviously in their place in the market, but have a little bit of fun with itand and and tell it actual story that kind of makes sense which I'm, whichI'm happy and I'm glad when we started this company and came up with a logodesign and the name that we have a story and we're proud to Patella thefaces and doctors yeah. And I think we can't ever over estimate the power ofstory telling in the role that story telling plays in that commercializationjourney. You know right able to like create that emotional peal, and we havea story that people can resonate with and then be able to have word of mouthmarketing now they're sharing that story with other people, it's just it'sso powerful, Hey! It's Dr Roxy here with a quickbreak from the converse nation. Are you trying to figure out what moves youneed to make to survive and thrive in the new Co vid economy? I want everyhealth innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivit strategy,which is why I created the Co. Vid proof, your business pivot, kid. Thepivot kit is a step by step framework...

...that helps you find your best pivotstrategies. It walks you through six categories. You need to examine for athree hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the sixcritical pivot lenses, as you make your way through this comprehensive kit,you'll be armed with the tools, chips and strategies you need to make sureyou can pivit with speed without missing out on critical details andopportunities, learn more at legacy: Hyphen Daco Back Kit. So you've done a really good job ofcreating a platform for your personal brand. That then, also lends itselfreally well to the platform that you have. You know for the company, and Iwas really surprised to you- know see that you've launched your own podcastshow. Typically, I'm arm wrestling clients trying to convince them thatthis is like the most incredible business strategy that they should bedeploying right now, and you know, and so what was that like foryou making that decision and how does all of the stuff that you've done inthe past kind of also lead into this platform? Yeah well I'll start with the past. Inabout five or six years ago, working at the Amerian Association of Warthogs, wehad the idea to start a podcast there, and it was just audio only at the time,because steps is before preconi before the the zoom became ubiquitous, and itwas a way at the association to kind of cut through some of that red take. Youknow I mentioned earlier sometimes takes nine months and there wereseveral parent vehicles there that we would use to communicate the membership.But we had the idea. You know we could do this very close, effectively and and veryquickly, just kind of video, a in Sir cut it could a podcast audio and one ofthe folks in the marketing did it work there for a long time andused to work for one of the big radio stations here in Saint Louis came aactually had a great radio voice. I and we would to sit down and chat, and wehad talked about some of the news happening in the industry. You KnowSupreme Court case to dealt with dennemark regulations or we would talkabout a new legal contract guide that we had put out on a website and it tookmaybe an hour to produce and to do in a couple hundred dollars in equipment tomake it sound really good. And what do you know within you know a couple oweeks we had thousands of hits on these things and people were were writing inand saying you know, come over this topic or crimethat topic and the funny thing of it is rocks Dr Axin, it all kind of startedwith self interest, because, as a lawyer atTao, I love your honesty. Well, you know it would. We were leaving getcalls while it wasn't our job to be the personal lawyer for members of the AO,my assistant, and I would would feel probably between the two of US ten tofifteen calls a day from orthodontia. You know what do I do if a patientstops paying me or what do I do it this?...

That, and I had the idea like we needto just cut the standard answer that we say ten times a day and maskdisseminate it, which is what we did and that kind of worked. So it kind of saved some some phonecalls for for my assistant and myself, but you know having gone through thatexperience, then moving forward into clear blue smiles. We thought because apart of our corporate responsibility and industryis preserving the integrity and theexpertus Orthodox. We want to kind of tell their story, and we want to takesome of the top worth of honest, whether they're involved with withclear blue smiles or not, because between me and the other founders. Weknow a lot of folks who have a very interesting story in Orthodox, and wewant a talk to them in talk about their stories talking about where they owe toschool, what led them into the practice some of them. You know it's a familybusiness, their father's grandfathers were in it, others it wasn't and andjust talk about kind of what led them into it. Some of the things that theyhave experiences in north of Donas. That gives them faith in the industryand faith than what they do, because you know almost without exception ofthe thousands of orthodontia met. They all have one thing in common: they allhave a deep heart to help people and they get great satisfaction in taking achild who you know, for instance, has as terrible,malices plus palate, even and donating the time, or really working with theparents to give that child a smile that they go from. You know walking aroundschool, never wanting to smile or doing this to being having having the selfconfidence in the great smile. And so we want to talk to them about that andjust talk about the industry and and hopefully encourage more patients andand more dental students to seek that out as a profession so that it keepsgetting better and better. So what kind of business impact has the has the showhad? And maybe it hasn't just yet, but youknow when I think about you know it can be a lot of heavylifting to do it. There's tons of shows that start out, but they don't stayconsistent with it, because you've got you know to kind of commit on aconsistent basis to record the episode. You know the kind of post production ofthat, and so there's always a question around like what is the Roi of apodcast. How is that really going to impact our business? So what's yourperspective on that? You know it's impossible to tell our r y just yet,because we is just as kind of a new initiative and, frankly, I got to tellyou you know for well. It takes time in time is opportunity cost at the sametime. You know I'm not too concerned about areturn on a vestment in terms of profit. I look at it in terms more of anideological perspective kind of like I...

...did when we started the company likewe're in this for more than profit, we're in this to tell a story toinnovate, to protect the integrity of Orthodox, and you know if we don't getthousands and thousands of ewers or if we don't get more business from it.That's okay, we'll probably continue doing it just because we have a passionfor telling that story and upholding the tradition of the profession, yeahyeah. Well, a couple o things that come to mind and how I've used it becauseI've been doing it for a couple of years. Now is you know it's marketresearch right, so you t you're staying on you're, staying close to thecustomer on a regular basis to be able to understand, because you know ascustomers we don't we're, not static right, and so, if we needs change,you've got an immediate pulse on that, because you're having conversationswith them, it allows you to kind of really stay much more customer focus,as opposed to like the technology or solution, focused right and thencontent. I mean when you're talking about building awareness and generatingdemand like ri juice. One show one episode andhave thirty to fifty pieces of content like, like you said earlier. Socialmedia teams love this stuff right and it's a original content. It's not goingto be something that you know you just that's like out there on a regularbasis. You've got these predal stories to be able to tell besides the factthat from what I sense from you you're having conversations with people thatcould be your potential customers, so you're, not pitching them on thepodcast but you're building a relationship and that's where it allbegins right. Right and absolutely- and actually I missed that aspect of it onone of my favorite things that I did at the AO is- and this is another by theway, it's still of interest kind of thing that turned into to somethingbetter to kind of pre empt. Some of thoselegal questions we get. We designed a a legal risk management course for OrthonC resident so before they go out to practice. We design like here thesixteen things the sixteen league wish us your face before you ever open yourprayer within the first year of having a practice, whether you're in businesswith somebody else for new solar practice, anything from contracts tostandard or ethics kind of thing, and I would travel around, and I wenteverywhere from from New York Ny to Florida toCalifornia and everywhere here in between, and I would always before Iwould get into it. I would introduce myself and then I would have each ofthe residents talk about themselves, and you know most most of these courseswere for between six and eighteen orthonresident, not not a huge crowd, but a good intimate crowd, good number to beable to get to know them, and I would always ask them three questions wherethey playing how they plan to practice and what kind of practice they are going to be in if they signeda contract with that. Yet, where they're going to live and then sorrythe fourth question was: What about the industry concerns you the most? Not Youspecifically, but what about generally...

...the industry yea, and you talked aboutthat- I didn't even know it at the time if that was valuable market research,for what I'm doing now and you know being able to ask thus in questions andtalk to folks and get that kind of connection you're right. It is marketresearch, even though it's not really the reason we do it right, it's huge.It really is huge, and even if you don't document it, you remember thoseever sit. Shame and you're. Looking at your growth strategy going forward andwhatever lane or of view, that would be you kind of remember, and then what Ilove is also like the more people you interview, then the more patterns youstart to see. So you probably saw that in your similar students, you go underrow. You know what, like the majority of them, are talking about this and andthen there's just a whole lot of implications of just being able to knowthem better m yeah. As a matter of fact they one hundred percent of thehundreds of residents. I talked to answered that Fourth Question: The sameway that question being what concerns you the most about about the future ofthe industry. I don't remember any of them, saying anything other than I'mreally concerned that this rise of what they would call do it yourselfdentistry and do it yourself worth Max, is going to do value our role inpatient self, and I mean there you go, I mean that's the lie. I had a businessto you. I can miss this for me and for you here we go and I didn't know it,but you know several years later, that became sort of the reason for ourexistence, yeah yeah. What I think is so interesting about what you'redescribing here, whether it was you know intentional or not, is you'rereally talking about this hybrid model right and so in hindsight, when we lookback, you know, prior to Ovid, you had tons and tees that really focused onbrick and mortar businesses and with all a lot of that drying up, especiallyin health care with access- and you know, trade shows, and you know, justbeing able to travel and all that stuff being changed and coming to a completehalt. You know for almost a year and a half lots of people shifted to virtualengagement right, tell a health. You know, so you kind of would doingthis. I guess before Ovid, but now now a lot of businesses, a lot ofentrepreneurs and innovators are kind of at this cross road. Do they go allthe way back to brick and mortar? Do they stay virtual and I think whatwe're going to find to be more successful? Is this hybrid that youjust described, giving consumers the convenience of doing whatever they wantto do wherever they want to do it, but not diminishing the face to facestuff that still has to take place? You're right! That's exactly right, andyou know, I think what Wawe didn't know it. Of course, when we startedlaunching the brand and he didn't know directing with doctor or pandemic, wedidn't know you. There would be this pandemic, but ah Iprobably I mean we saw...

I and the other founders probably werefor seeing before the pandemic. We were for seeing a move towards this kind ofmodel which really what we would describe it as it's a tile orthodontiafor traditional orthodoxist. It's kind of helping them move their practiceinto the practice of the future, where they can spend more time on patientsthat really need the in person help and still have revenue streams and have alot of patients that they can monitor virtually, and it actually makes herpractice more efficient to be able to do it that way. But anyway, you know,we thought we kind of foresaw that moving towards that more of thatkind of model within like five to six years. Pre coved, I think now, Covin,certainly in the minds of the consumer, obviously has changed a lot of things.If it can be done, virtually it's going to be done virtually for grocerydelivery to medicine for a lot of orthodontist. I think it in Dennis too.I think it sped up their timeline to come to that conclusion from five tosix years to almost immediately, if not a thirty on right- and you know it's- it's obviousto everybody. I think that that market is there and that people, if they cando it virtually and they're in their assured, and they know, and they feelcomfortable, that what they're getting is the same quality or, if not betterquality than the in person, interaction they're going to do it virtually yeahyeah. So the last question I have for you before we get before we wrap uphere is around bets B to b o e to see right. So what were some of the thingsthat you kind of wrestled with are contemplated around yourcommercialization strategy? You know you're in a multi cided market, verysimilar to health care right where you there has to have that the beat B inthe BCA involved a- and I think that you guys have done a really good job at doing both. Well, so just talk aboutthat a little bit for our listeners sure. Well, it's been an interesting, very steep learning earth, becausethere are some companies that we mentioned. You know that do entirelyadvertising direct consumer, which of course, is extremely expensive yeah,because you're not only trying to build brander and is your train to convincethem of something we are kind of a hybrid model we are. We are advertising and workingwith doctors and dentists, a many of whom, by the way, I take sometime to explain because it's a new model and they don't quite understandit and once they understand what we're doing, they think wait a minute. Itdoesn't cost us any money. You're sending me patients you're, paying methis is no more a ethon. I got to tell you: that's probably our biggest our biggest road block in talking toDennis and saying. No, this isn't too...

...good to be true. It's a new way of doing business. It'sa little bit more risk for us, of course, because we're taking some ofthe financial risk. But you know that's that's the bargain.You have to do at some point, but what we're finding is the direct consumerspeaking directly about marketing direct consumer? Actually, we don'thave to do a lot of it to figure out what really works well and what hasworked well is a sale to the patients that were going after which generally it's parents of children whoare aware that this direct consumer, if you want tocall it that model where you never have to see anybody exist, but they wouldnever trust that for their own kids or themselves, but they are aware of thatvirtual treatments possible, and so here is the perfect marriage oftradition and technology yeah, where one visit gets them everything theyneed and then, and then, with a minute or two with their smart phone a month.They can do their virtual checkups, so what we're finding is we can take thatmarketing and take it to perspective dentist that we're working with and saylook. This is what we're telling people we have people. We have patientpotential patients coming in to us now I won't say in drugs, but but a lot,and you know here's an existing patient base for you that we can link you upwith and and give them a service that you were well positioned to provide soer yeah and who's going to turn that down who's going to turn that down right,exactly yeah yeah. Well, dare then do you so much? It's been such a greatopportunity to speak with you today and thank you for sharing so many insightswith us. How do folks get a hold of you if anybody wants to reach out to youafter you know, they can always check out ourwebsite. WTH, clear, blue smiles com. You can reach my email directly, it'sjust it's pretty easy. It's a Kevin at clear, blue smiles com. Awesome! Thankyou! So much. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy workingto bring your life changing innovation to market, and I value your time andattention to get the latest episodes on your mobile device automaticallysubscribe to the show on your favorite podcast tap like apple podcast, potiiand stitcher. Thank you for listening, and I appreciate everyone who sharedthe show with friends and colleagues, see you on the next episode of HealthInnovator, a.

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