Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 97 · 1 year ago

Social Proof: How to Generate a Sonic Boom w/ Joe Brown


How did Joe turn March 2020, his worst sales month ever, into April 2020, his best sales month ever - despite the pandemic? 

Well, building a successful business during a pandemic takes a little bit of luck, a whole lot of creativity, and the skill to see the potential in every situation.

From hiring the right teams to pivoting during times of uncertainty, every decision you make is a “make-or-break” decision - especially when the market is in turmoil.

This has been Joe Brown’s life for the past 3 years and, during the pandemic, when other startups were shutting down, he built a “faster horse.”

Communication, asking questions - of your customers and yourself - and understanding the value of social proof in today’s digital healthcare solutions are just the beginning.

Tune in for Joe’s incredible story.

Here are the show highlights:

  • What startups need to know about building an amazing team (7:37)
  • Ask yourself the right questions (15:00)
  • How to build social proof into a “faster horse” (23:19)
  • Build a solution that can evolve or cross-over (25:48)
  • How to address HIPAA and PHI in your healthcare solution (29:42)
  • Why social proof is incredibly important (31:39)

Guest Bio

Joe Brown is Founder and CEO of DearDoc, an artificial intelligence solution that engages patients on healthcare websites.

After being approached by a family member who needed some advice on how to drive business, Joe parlayed his expertise into a vision that is changing patient/doctor communications.

Joe received his Bachelor of Science in Business Administration, Marketing/Global Business from the University of Arizona - Eller College of Management.

If you’d like to reach out to Joe, you can find him on LinkedIn at Joe Brown. If you’re interested in learning more about DearDoc, visit their site today at

You're listening to health innovators, a podcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and earlier doctors who are shaping the future of healthcare. I'm your host, Dr Roxy Movie. Welcome back to the show health innovators. On today's episode, I am sitting down with Joe Brown, who is the founder and CEO of Deer Doc. Welcome to the show, Joe. Thanks for having me. Very excited to be here. It's good to have you here and I am excited to be able to hear more about your story and share some insights about your commercialization journey with our audience. So, before we get started here, just tell our audience a little bit about what you've been innovating and a little bit about your background. Yeah, so I'm the the see of Dear Dooc and what dear doc is is where a practice growth platform where we help doctors get new patients, retain their patient base and increase efficiencies within their practice. And we started the company in about February of two thousand and nineteen with this idea that we could probably help doctors communicate better with patients and in more of a way that's easier for them to get the hold of them and we tested the idea. My grandfather is a dermatologist. He's been dermatologist for over fifty years and who's having odd challenge getting more patients into his practice. He's been a business as a rate doctor. I've been to him many times from my personal stop and it's a great doctor. Pre's having a hard time getting people in, and so the idea was, could we forgot a way that he's I was looking at his website, I was looking at his online presence. Everything seemed pretty good, but he was getting a lot of people to his website but he wasn't converting people when they actually got there, and so I thought there's tools for this. They definitely exist. I know you know the companies I had worked at previously had different tools, whether it was like some type of chat widget to engage patients. That way, are engaged consumers and they came to the website and so so you should probably put some chat on your website and I was looking at the market to try to find some chat. So should I knew that his team would have time to answer chats as they come on. Boards had to be automated. When you found out that back in the late two thousand and eighteen, there was no company that exists that did hip a compliant artificial intelligence chat for the healthcare setting and I thought this could be a really big opportunity not only to help my grandfather but potentially helped the entire market. We tested on his website. It worked out. I mean he would go up from a getting like, you know, ten leads on his website to know more spending marketing. They like twenty, five or thirty leads, and so I figured that if this could change his website that much dramatically, this could be really helpful for tons of whether practices. We did it with one of his friends. They were successful and long story short, the company started in February two thousand and nineteen. was just me on the team. We had no customers and fast for worlds to today we have about a hundred sixty people on the team and we have were just we actually just passed our three thousand customer. Wow, congratulation. That's huge. Yes, it's really exciting a lot of fun. So so I want to go back. So I understand the route of the of the story right and in the targeting strategy. But you know, I have to say, as I started to get to know you and dear doc more, a little bit more, I started thinking, Gosh, you know, this is one of the most difficult target audiences there are out there, with physicians right private practice positions just really struggle today to be able to, like you said, be able to get these patients coming in and pipeline of patients coming in and in. So it's interesting to know why you chose that. I also noticed when you're telling your story you kind of touched on marketing, but then you talk about these software tools. So what made you not position yourself as like a traditional marketing agency versus these tech tools that really may be differentiate you? I mean, yes, it's a good question. I don't come from ...

...the marketing world. I come from software world. I've been part of multiple software companies here in New York City and historically been you know, I was one of the startups. I worked at software company got required for a hundred million dollars and so that was a great learning Experience Watch company go from line nothing to, you know, one of the biggest tech acquisitions in your k history at the time when it happened, and or to other start out and they're just I had this really cooption. Any work in different software companies, so I don't come from the market where I come from software work, and so that's where for me it really clicked that, you know, you could leverage software to not only help doctors, because a lot of people, I think, suffer. Can help whether it's a CR you know, Mr like some type of patient management stoftware, but there's other ways software can help grow practices outside of that, and that's where we really wanted to tap into. Sure, yeah, sounds great. So as we is, we think about the the targeting strategy in the you know, being able to get in front of doctors. Right, there's so hard competitive, right. Yeah, you know, you've got Farma with very, very deep pockets. You've got med device also with deep pockets, that are all vying for their you know, ten fifteen minutes of getting in front of the physician. So what are you doing differently to be able to market yourself and to be able to get your offer in front of so many physicians that you've been able to convert, you know, nearly three thousand or three thousand within just a couple of years? Yeah, it's great questions, hard I mean we've tried everything, like we tried facebook marketing. That I mean it could just because I'm not great at it. That didn't really work, and we've tried mailers and we tried going to off like there's somethings we tried. But my background, so I've his I grew up. When I graduated college, I got a job in sales and software. So I've I've had the back when I start in sales with up to sales manager and then eventually sales trainer, and I started training classes of thirty, forty sales people in a class like almost every other month. So I was like training a lot of sales people pretty quickly. And so my background comes from and I was the way I was taught was actually through cold calling and so calling people, getting their attention as quickly as you can and giving them something of interest for them to actually, you know, spend a few minutes their time learning about your products. Sure, and so that's really for us. We grew up. It's a lot on cold calling. We do them, a little bit of partnerships here and there, but really the bulk of it has just been our background of just calling people and asking, you know, giving them a short version of what we do and trying to get them interested to spend them more time with us, and that's kind of been we're at a medical office. Is No easy feat. So congratulations to you and your team. We were great, we were very talented team, just a great, very great team, and we all are. We're all have this mission. They're all behind drive of how can we reinvent how health care has been done, or how can we reinvent how new patients meet their doctors? We constantly are at this mission of trying to reinvent and I think that's what gets our team. They have a hard time having to make hundreds of dials a day to pull this off, but they're doing really well. Yeah, so tell us a little bit about your team. You mentioned that you have a hundred and sixty employees. That is a really, really big team, specially, I think, for such a young company. So how are you structured? And then let's talk about your leadership, being able to lead, you know, such a lot large team. Yeah, well, I think in any really good business you need like we have a great leadership team and but early on we brought on a lot of these really great leadership and it's crazy because the we didn't have any money. So, like we we had no we didn't raise capital. So we had to figure out a way to get a product builds that was just I mean a producty prooves significantly from the early days. But or we had like this product that just...

...pretty much did the bare bones of what it could do to help. And then, but like, we had to also grow the business hire people. It's we hired really great leaders early on and so I think any great business you need someone who's like really great at getting sales in. So you need a really good person is really good at bringing sales in. We have an incredible vice president sales who's does an amazing job of taking care of that part of the business. You need someone who can actually fulfill on what sales is doing, so sales can sell many people. If we're not fulfilling times we forget that. Don't wait someone who's like amazing at being able to not just fulfill but provide just an a plus amazing customer experience, which we strive for every day. We hope that people think our experience amazing, but we're constant getting better. And then you need someone. I think you know, another really important role is someone who's in charge of making sure like the books and everything is in line, so making sure that, like, are we're spending money in the right place around overspending in the wrong places. We pay rolls getting Tarken care of, administrative things are getting done in the background, benefits for employees, all that stuff is happening. So we have so our we have really great people in those roles and so we have these people come on pretty early on in we're less than a year old, and so they've been able to then underneath them, since they're so good, and be able to build and scale teams underneath them that help us serve more and more people. And so it's not easy. I mean we've we've, you know, we interview get, we a view tons of people just to get you know, in our sales team it's very competitive, like it's will have a thousand people apply for our roles for like a sales class and we'll hire like five or six. Yeah, so it's a really low low acceptance rate. But we just have we have a main recruiter who just folks on recruiting all times. So she does really good job recruity people so it's we've been lucky enough to have a product that adds value, something we can talk about. The later's is like the whole covid would happen during covid because that was also a pivole time for our business. Yeah, but so absolutely. You know, you kind of touched on something that I think every single business owner nearly goes through, is this kind of chicken or the egg kind of thing. Right. So you need to be able to have money to build a product to sell it, but you need to be able to have sales, so you have cash flow to be able to in build, have money to build a product, and you need to have great team member, you know, high quality team members, in order to just start building out the culture and building out the the business, right, but we also need to be able to have money to be able to hire those. So just talk about some of the the challenges that you went through and how you were able to overcome them. Yeah, man, I got really we got really lucky. I mean we I happened to I was, like I said, my backgrounds in sale, so I knew, I had worked with and been in New York, the sales world, so I was ahead of sales at the last startup I was at when we built a huge team there, and I could get connected with really great sales people and sales leaders throughout my time for the past seven years or so where here in New York, and so I was able to, because I had good relationship with some of these guys, bring on some sales people early on. I was like, listening to the products not really there yet, but it will be. Have Faith, I'm trust to bring those sales people on pretty much on commission based only. I had the reputation of being able to build in scales sales scenes where, even if they were commissioned only, they're still going to make really great money. Yeah, because you know, the sales process wouldn't be in place, all that stuff. And then, like our CFO came on like two months after we started the coming three months after, like he was one of my best friends from high school. I'm going to do a lot amazing things after he graduated college and doing these things. I remember calling him and saying Hey, man, like we're looking, I'm starting this company and I'm looking for a CFO who could, you know, really run the day to day, really own this kind of finance this company. It's going to be really exciting. All the stuff you know anybody, and I was in my mind, I'm thinking, please say you, please say you, please say you. Goes. He's like yes, that's that sounds like really free an awesome, but I want to guess in the real word. He said really freaking awesome and he goes maybe that you're interested to stuff, we talk more and when the number he came on...

...more. We also took he was actually the only person daredoc to take besides our first couple sales who were conditional only, but they got paid when they made sales. He was he came on no pay and like no real guarantee of pay for at least ninety days and I was a huge rist for him and now you know he's able to get paid at, I think, a great salary and those type of things down that we've grown the business. But he took a big risk and so I think like it's using your relationships with people that you that that know you and trust you know they're going to take care of them and if you can find those people and they you know they believe in you and what you can do and you believe in them. It's a recipe for success, in my opinion. I really think that that's so important because so many times, I think that innovators are just they're struggling with the financial piece right, so they're just looking for free talent. But you don't necessarily have those strong relationships with high quality people and it can, it can really, you know, sabotage your business getting people that are working for free, because not everybody that's working for willing to work for free is going to be those High Colt quality or high caliber people. So I definitely agree with you. I think the relationships are in the network that you have to be able to tap into is really, really important. Giving giving equity, like people thought it was, because I gave good equity to the first couple people that came on board and we still some people. You know, we give of you know, bonuses, those have things equitting the business too, but I set up the business in a way where I didn't want, never wanted investors, but I wanted it in a way we could give out equity different people, especially the early days. They're helping build a business and so I think I gave up more equity than people thought that I probably should have in the early days, but for me it was really important because these people are taking a huge risk at something like that. No way that you know they'd I mean they think people that I take a biggs start in the company was like know the people that joined on early on. Those people took a check, giant aggress bigger than I did because they had, you know, pige paying jobs doing a really amazing things. Come join this guy and we're work out of my apartment for the first seventy months of the business, my one bedroom apartment in New York City. It was it was just crazy. But yeah, yeah, you know, it's funny because I was one of those people early on in my career. I can't tell you how any, you know, stock certificates I have that weren't aren't worth the paper that they were printed on. You know, they just they never they never came to fruition. Yeah, I didn't work for free, but there was, you know, some type of negotiation there. So so being able to make that part of your you know, pay out and being able to attract great talent, I think is really important, especially for our listeners. Yeah, yeah, it's and take yet take care of your people. It's like your most important thing. So so let's talk about covid. How did COVID IMPACT Your Business and how is it currently impacting Your Business? Yeah, it's a great question that we them when covid hit. So we were really kind of focused our angle and our value propositions. We're going to get you more new patients. That's a lot of our value proposition. And when covid hit, like it it was march thirteen, and people stopped, some up going to work and all of a sudden doctor's offices were just closed and we're calling dentist and then just like why would I ever need new patients? Is like the last thing thing about R now. I when I came and see my existing patients right now. And so we're team is like scrambling, like what, I don't know what to do. You know what's going to happen? All these things, and so we were just like brainstorming as a team and we're trying to figure out, like we're in the business to add value to our clients. If, like, we give them a way to get more new patients and they can't see them, we're not adding any value. We, in theory, shouldn't even exist and so, like hot we're just our question was, how do we add value? Because I think the one of things Tony Robin socks about is like, you know, the quality of your life is the quality the questions you ask yourself. So if you ask yourself the right questions, usually will find your brain has come up with an answers. We asked how do we add value? How do we add value? Keep repeating that question over and number again. And one of the things where you had on a product roadmap to finish by like the end of two thousand and twenty or sometime Middle Two thousand and twenty. One was idea of telling medicine.

We had started the kind of outline of what it would look like and someone's like what if we could launch tell a medicine? It's like, well, that's like something we had totally from the backburners. It wasn't something we were all that excited about before covid right couspers needed more than anything, and so we sat down with a team, we got everybody together and we looked at mapped out like what can we do to get the minimal Bible product that would just somewhat add value to our clients in a short period of time and our team, we laid it all out. People were working, you know, almost all day Saturday, all day Sunday, late nights. We were just constantly looking how we can try to build this thing out. By the end of March, I think, like Mars twenty nine or March thirty, we had officially had some product that was ready to go to then give to our sales team and toward our customer. Experience seemed to show give it to our customers. Ay, here's a way to add value through the pandemic. So not only can we send you new patients with some of other products, you can actually see them through our tell medicine solution. We're one of the first people to start reaching out to these doctors with some tallmadus solutions. We got it done in like two weeks, right, but it shows what happens is like it's like necessity breeds innovation and that was like the perfect idea of and this is what I love about Dardoc so much, is like, when a challenge is come our way, we don't just say I guess that's A. I mean ninety percent of all of our people that were, you know, selling the doctors or that some people in the market. We're laying people off, they were downsizing and if you look at some of the statistics of like ohred eight when there was a recession in the companies that laid people off, the people that stopped spending money on marketing, stop saying money on sales ten years from that point, where the losers in the long run. And so we knew that. So we said we have to invest now, and so it was super risky. M Right, we hired way more people. We hired people were probably couldn't never hired because they got let go from these great company. Them on board and all the things we had. We hired more people, we pushed more sale, we did everything. In April, Two thousand and twenty at that moment was the biggest month in like sales we'd ever done as a company. Yeah, I think. And so we had gone through. March was one of our worst months we ever had as a company because we could couldn'tund anthy for half the month do anything for happ the month. There's is April being one of our best. Now we've obviously beat that since, but it was just a crazy moment for us and in our history. So that is amazing and you know, we hear that, we hear some of those stories right, because you had different industries that were able to pivot and adapt more quickly than others and be able to take advantage of some of the changing trends. That actually work to our advantage and being any type of digital health certainly has helped. So how was it for you competing against some of the bigger brand name telemedicine solutions that might have already been into the market place or, you know, even if they still had small market share prior to Covid? Was that something that you've faced? I mean that was it was great when we face the one that had it, because if someone already had tell us, it's like, okay, were are other products. Can Be great for you if you already have done that sin, but if you don't have, tell them that it's in. Well you need it, because we don't know when this thing's going to be we're nor when the scenes going to end. Right this coping could go on for two months, could go on for a few weeks, could go on for a year. We don't know, and so we need the thing now, obviously, and so it didn't matter if someone already had it. Amazing like we could just offer our other products and if someone didn't have it that it was just included in the bundle. Yep, the beauty of having a broad product portfolio. Yes, you should always have multiple products. It's one of the biggest things I can recommend to somebody who's like you. Can you can make it to like you make it to a certain point, you know, let's say a million dollars revenue by just having maybe one product in selling into the healthcare space. But if you want to get more than that, it's highly recommend having multiple, multiple products, so you can help people no matter what stage of business that they're at and you have different things. I can help them grow and and make things better for them. Yeah. So, so how is covid impacting Your Business Today? You know, access to practice staff or to hospital...

...system, I mean how medical offices has, you know, kind of opened up closed up, you know, we kind of keep going back and forth. So how is it impacting Your Business Today? It's not. It doesn't seem like it's impacting it too much. I don't think there's. I don't think it's worth because covid with tell medicine was actually somewhat in our business. was almost helping right because we had associately people go in. Yeah, but for right now it's kind of even itself out. It's like people, if they don't really mostly were actually going into the office most doctors. You know. I know things are kind of closing up, like as of a few days ago or like we could go back again, but for the most part people are still going to the doctor's offices. There were mass or doing the normal things. So there's less of the tell medicine stuff. So everything's kind of somewhat back to normal. So I don't think it's really impacted your business. Now. We still we still do tailor our message when talking to coustomers about covid and those things are still existing in our the way we communicate with costomers at how this product will help, obviously with or without covid. But I wouldn't say it's impacting US too much right now and I would say you like our products, like we're not developing products for like this tell medicine first worlds. I think a lot of people that thought maybe tell me this was going to be. This the future of what we do, and I do think they'll be way more tule medics and there was before covid. For example, follow up appointments and those type of things, have to go drive in a car and yeah, get to the plant at the office. You can just go over on your on your screen, which thing is way better, but I still think we're still going to go to the DUCTOR's office when we're not feeling well to get checked up. In everything, for the most part, definitely a hybrid model. Is What the future is going to look like, for sure. HMM, Hey, it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves you need to make to survive and thrive in the new covid economy? I want every health innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivot strategy, which is why I created the covid proof your business pivot kit. The pivot kit is a step by step framework that helps you find your best pivot strategy. It walks you through six categories you need to examine for a three hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses. As you make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to make sure you can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details and opportunities. Learn more at legacy DNACOM backslash kit. So what is the biggest challenge that you're looking to solve in today in in the near future? We're just we're always asking the question, how can we be more valuable to our clients, and so we just we don't know. I don't know what the exact things are going to be, the the problems of things that will be facing probably a year to years from now, because we're going to constantly be evolving. Like I think sometimes we'll get so stuck on their there. You know, we started the company, we had some we had an artificial tells in to chat that would help doctors convert people from their website. But it was never it was never that we were a chat company. was were coming that was here to service the healthcare space in any way we possibly can. So if we see it an opening in the market or something that could potentially help these doctors, will try to recreate it and offer and see if it works or not, and we're just constantly we have tons of failed experiences, tons of failed experiments and ton of successful experiments and it's just been I think as long as we're doing one of one of those three things, as long as we're getting people more patients in a way, we're getting them to be able to retain their patient face better, or we're helping them increase efficiencies within their practice, if it's one of those three things that we're doing with our products and it's a win, it's what are those things going to be? Our products can definitely evolve and we're not we're not arey to a certain ideas. It's until it until it doesn't seem to be ineffective or there's a way more effective way to do something, will do the more effective way. Sure. Yeah, one of the things that I talked a lot about is co creation and bringing your customers into that discovery process...

...of really being understand, understanding the challenges that they're facing today or the things that they're worried about for tomorrow, being able to anticipate or even cocreate that next version of solutions with the customers. Sometimes we think that we need to have all the answers and we need to have it all, like, you know, even an MVP to like present to them and get their feedback, but even being able to go super early with ideating with them can prove to be extremely valuable. I often use the example of starbucks where, you know, seventy percent of their new ideas don't come from anyone withinside the company. They come from their target customers. They're always asking their consumers, what do you need next? What do you need now? I mean it doesn't mean that there are completely one hundred percent owning the product roadmap, but there are certainly driving a lot of that, and then you know that you're inventing something or innovating something that your customers want because they helped, you know, shape those ideas to begin with. Yeah, yeah, I think ask those questions are important and services surveying or customers is extremely important. But something I think that some, especially technology companies, like we're we're innovating, we're changing how things have done previously. It's I think about you ask them the problems they're facing right and they may think of they know the solution that they want for that problem. But in reality they make a perfect example as Henry Ford when he talks about maybe for the scope before he's like if I would ask, but what they want it back in the early hundred they would have told I want a faster horse, not like a not, not a car, right, and they want to get places faster. So ask some feedback, get that fee back. I want to get somewhere faster. How can you make my horse go faster? Well, well, we could probably make this thing easier if we created a car and got there even quicker. And so that's where I think your customers will definitely and you may have some innovative custer. That our thing outside the box. They're just because they have really want to be able to do this better, this thing easier, and then it's up to you a lot of time to think about. Okay, but I know this logically makes sense, but what if we could do this and one it was possible and then start asking those questions and and usually some of our best products and stuff like that come out that way. Yeah, definitely, especially when you're talking about something that's really a revolutionary or disruptive you know most of the time those are not going to come from directly from the customers mouth, be customer's mouth, but through that dialog is usually where their thick creativity and ideas are sparked, right, just like them described. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, some of the tools that you offer are things that you know. I know that you're targeting private practices, but they really could be used even for the businesses, for the people that are in our audience today. So thinking about the health innovators and them to also being able to convert their customers. So just talk a little bit about how Ai Chat on a website or even, you know, automated tools to either collect or display google reviews for social proof. Just talk a little bit about that and the overall value proposition and how that might impact commercialization strategy. Yeah, so, I mean it's everything. I mean like the world is online and so people are going to be finding you online. I mean, I don't think when no one has to be convinced that anymore. Right, we all know that. Social people have watching the show know that. I don't know. In healthcare, I think there's much just blagguards that are still really not sure or you need, if you need, the nudge. People are online to make sure you take care of your online presence even, probably better than you would take care of the front looking of your store. Right, it's more important to take care of your online presence. And you do like cleaning your windows. I know you want the windows, but anyway, Yep. So Take Care, take care of you on my presence, and so like something like an ai chat is fantastic because and we have it on our website, obviously, but what it does is it allows people to get their questions answered immediately. And so what we found when doing when figuring out the the right product market fit, was at seventy five percent of people who go to a website will go once and never come back again. And so if you only have really one shot to convert somebody into a paid appointments or a paid customer or...

...client, whatever the business you've had, you better do everything you can to give them the things they need to be successful that one visit on their website. Like they're not going to come as soon. They're never going to come back again. And so they chat allows them to ask questions for our doctors, for example. What insurance you guys accept? Do you guys do this type of service. I have a child. That's to do. You guys see children whatever questions they may have. Answer the question, but then follow up right after with would you like to request an appointment? Yes or no? Yes, okay, awesome. Let's go through that process and requested appointment, and so we're able to get leads that they would never have gotten other than having a wait for us to communicate. It's kind of like imagine if you went into a retail store. I mean, I worked in retail. I think this is why I'm up so obsessed with the chat idea, with the website, is because I used to work in retails as a sales wrap. is where I learned sales. My first time working at a pack son, if anyone that's familiar but pack son, and you know, the difference of me being there versus me not being there was significant. The amount, the amount, the more stuff people were able to find and buy because I was there to help them and guide them was way more than if I just if the store was completely empty, people were aimlessly walk around. They may never knew that we were if you bought three shirts to get a fourth one free, they they had never known these other things that are going on within the store. That we highly recommend you do. And so for me it was a no brainer that when someone's on a website, that's like you're your your retail store, your retail your practice online. So if you need somebody that can guide them and talk to them and help them out their process to really increase convergence. Yeah, absolutely. Again, I know that we're talking about the use case for dear doc. That's like specifically for medical practices, but I want to make sure that we're stressing for our audience today is that this really is for any business, any any business like works for cloning stores, it can work for any business, your coach, any type business you have. People are going to have questions. They need to be able to answer them and I highly recommend using some type of Ai Chat to be a convert them the games. And if that's STEERDOC amazing and we're starting to look at what our business looks like, Pope, outside of the healthcare space, so outs just getting into other types of businesses. But regardless, I highly recommend. It's imperative and too valuable. So some of the questions that I know come to mind is if I'm a direct to consumer business, or even if I'm a B Tob Business, but I may be, you know, communicating with people in the practice staff the or hospital system that might end up sharing asking me about a specific patient through the chat. So how do you overcome some of the objections around HIPPA or Phi? Well, hipp yeah, HIPPA's when you're collecting like information, like we don't answer any medical questions. So like we're not like, you know, may my I hurd. It's like, Oh, let's run, me recommend what you should do if you're I hurt's right. So we're not doing any of those questions. It's very simple questions that, you know, anyone hantser. What what makes why you guys better than the practice? Ontree will makes you unique? Services, insurance as those two questions that are pretty normal. So as long as we're not giving any like healthcare related advice, number one. Number two is like when you're collecting this data, like recollect named and phone numbers and email addresses of patience, everything has to be encrypted in the back end. So by encrypted meeting that it's the database that it's stored in. Is You know, it can't be. It's you know, it's not saved as a name. It's being encrypted, encoded in and in making sure that information everything is safe and we have there. Our whole team has to go through hippo compliance training every single year. Once a year they've go through all the training. When I new higher starts if they're all HIPO training. So there's there's certain things that make your company HIPOC compliant that you have to go through. The companies that you you can hire to help you with that process if you're looking to get HYPOC compliant. But but yeah, I mean it's really just making sure you're taking care of the Phi, which is like that information of the patient in making that's encrypted all the way through. Yeah, good insights, just because, you know, in healthcare there's all inevitably someone that wants to throw out,...

...oh, I don't know if we could do that, because the Phi or Hippah right, it's just kind of like these buzz words that they just like to throw a throwout scary. It's because they've heard horror stories. People, you know, get right. Scary business is getting sued. Yeah, absolutely. So then let's just kind of start talking also about, you know, reviews and testimonials and social proof. I think that just overall, it's kind of the same thing that we're talking about. Over all, this is valuable to every business, certainly valuable to the health innovators that are on here, and I think that there's still either a knowledge gap or an implementation gap around integrating social roof into the business and how critical that is for future sales. Yeah, I mean it's social proof for many reasons. is obviously a big influence. Like we always as human beings, we like if other people had a good experience, we assume we're also going to have a good experience too, and so we always look for social proof. What's in what's important for like local businesses especially, is that like ninety one percent of people that are looking for a local business will will trust online reviews as much as a recommendation from a family or friend them a family or friend. So if you aren't like if if you have you may be the best doctor in the world, but if you have three, if you have eight reviews and the three star rating, like there's gonna be a lot of people are going to pass right by you. And that's was one unfair it's unfair because you're a great doctor, you spent so much time and energy making your practice a great one. But if you're online presence and show it, it doesn't really mean anything. And so you need to make sure you're generating a lot of reviews. And you have, and if you're a great doctor, you have tons of happy people are more than happy to do it. And what your doctor does is helps him do it, helps the patient do it fast. You don't make it complicated for your patients to write something great about you, and so we allow them to send a message and give us a lot of feedback. You can and if you can, write us for review and it's just a click one button on a text messagers. They can write a review very quickly and easily, and so you know, I think one other thing is as we go online, and we talked about how importance of reviews online. I was sitting at dinner last night with my fiance and her mom and she might feels a bought something on Amazon, a piece of cloning on Amazon in her mom's like you would buy that? Why would you buy you don't even know if it's going to be good. How do you know it's like? Look the reviews of right on. They were all amazing. And and it's like damn, it's like it's like that's our world. It's like if other people say it's good, I haven't tried it on, I can't see it, I can't touch it. What other people said it's good, I'm going to buy it. And so I think that's the world we live in. We have to understand the value of those reviews, is that people are going to trust those things as much as a recommendation if it was a friend or family. Yeah, and I think and that's so true. I mean I know that you just you rarely trust what a brand says. You trust what your peers say and you believe that those people that are posting those reviews are comprised of your peers. I look at reviews from nearly everything that I purchase. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because like these these things that you're talking about, they're not necessarily new and innovative. For like other industries, they've been applied there for like, you know, ten years plus. It's just that we're still, you know, as in healthcare, the industry is just kind of still falling behind. In healthcare, you know, there's definitely a lot more weight, which rightfully so, on being able to generate that clinical evidence to demonstrate the safety and efficacy of whatever it is that they're bringing to market. And I think because there's so much emphasis on the clinical evidence that we often forget the how the role that social proof and those online reviews really play into that sales process. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's I mean exactly. You may have the best you may come from the best school and you may have like the best background and all these things. You've been a doctor for twenty, thirty years, but that does it only can pulse so much weight and you need sense going to complete differentiate you from the practice down the street. And so if you're going to, when I highly suggest is... if you look, if you type in, if you're a dentisty type and dentist in your area and there's a list of, you know, five or six doctors, I'd be I challenge you to try to make yourself the highest, at least have the highest number of reviews, that it's not only just like are you five stars? If you five stars in one review, they're going to think that you're, you know, so in your office have written that one review. At least like a hundred or two hundred. Those numbers really make a big difference and if your four point four and have four hundred reviews, people going to be much fron like the Dagodia. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think that if we, if we ever had any type of analysis and we queried the where we are with Google business pages for healthcare brands compared to other industries, we'd find that there's there's a huge opportunity for us to be able to leverage these tools that have there out there for us to be able to grow our businesses. Yeah, yeah, and then be able to automate that process. I think is really important to mean, you know, old school would be these. You would have somebody that would create a powerpoint deck to, you know, pitch their offer and they would have like a map of the US with a couple of logos of the customers that they were doing business with. But you just really outdated compared to or, you know, testimonials that you know like hey, customer, you know, give me a testimonial and they kind of tweak it and put it on your website, versus the dynamic nature, in the ongoing potential of, like you said, hundreds of reviews versus these two or three static reviews that I put on there three years ago. Yeah, recent ASS. And then it helps with sto to like, and we have talked about this too much, but search engine optumization. So, like where do you come up on the search? I mean Google looks for reviews. Is a big thing. Another great examples, like the stuff that people put into reviews also is like really helpful. So I mean there's a ton of stuff I go on here. But like I was looking for Jim recently that had a steam room and near my apartment in New York City and I just type in steam room and Jim and this company didn't have it listed really anywhere online except in their review. Someone wrote a review at that point. Hey, they really like their steam room, and so I went there when I tried to checked out yesterday and there was a beautiful, huge steam room that the review said it was amazing. But they didn't have it this anywhere online, and so that one person in right review would never popped up on Google. But Google's indexing what's on review. So you getting people to say like great doctor, best doctor in New York or you know whatever. These things are much more likely. You are to come up in these surges. There's son's reasons why. And also, when someone types in the word best dentist near me, something that's good to know is that it won't show any practice that's less than four stars. So if you're a three point nine and someone types in best, then test hear me, you want even come up in that search, you got to make sure at least over before point out, to even come up for that. Yeah, and you know, I mean that's really great to share with our audience because I think it just drives some of the importance. I mean, I I think that what you're talking about for Seo is important, whether you're talking about a national business or even a local business, and it's SEO is again as prevalent as it's been for so long. It's still kind of like this misnomer of like I really don't know what that is, so I don't know what I should pay for it. I don't know what I'm really going to get for it. You know, it doesn't happen overnight. Yeah, yeah, so I think that that again is just another tactic that many, many healthcare brands that are listening today or probably missing out on their marketing program that is hurting their commercial success. Yeah, definitely, definite. I am so important. It's so important. Yeah. So want to switch gears a little bit, Joe, and talk kind of going back to, you know, being an entrepreneur Aur, being a founder. Would are some of the practices, are habits that you've put in place to help you be clear minded, be focused, be able to be a healthy leader, especially, you know, as we're going through covid over the last, you know,...

...year and a half? Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I got into it. Could be coincidence, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if it's coincidence, but I started a lot of things. I kind of got in the habit's starting like really good habits. I think helps out a lot. So, like phrase, I wake up every morning and the first thing I do is well, I have a few I'll get my more your teams. I think it's really helpful and hopefully this helps someone trying to grow their business. Yeah, I'm keep them levelheaded, as I wake up every day around like five, ten am or something like that, and was in bed for about ten minutes and I think about like before I go to bed. I think about some of the challenges I'm facing in our business. I just be I just think about like what, how do I ever come out overcome that? Whatever, I'll wake up in the morning and some of my best ideas that we've had for dear DOOC, at least, I mean our team. It comes with much better as I do. But life, the ones I contribute to, if I contribute ideas, usually come in that first ten minutes. I'm sitting in bed thinking about like what did I dream about? What about? What I was I thinking about last night in my sleep? And I'll come up, I'll wright have an idea. Bam, will go to my phone, I'll write it down real quickly and then, like a few hours later, are starting my work down like that. Ideas Amazing. I should tell soones about this. So first time innutes is I think about it. I think about my what I had dreamt about it the night before. I meditate for ten minutes every day. I've meditated for ten minutes every day for like almost like I think I because I use headspace and it keeps track of each day you meditate. It's been like one thus three hundred. That one thousand three hundred days in a row so far. It's like a wow, wow, yeah, yeah, so as you think about that, have you you seen the difference and how? I mean, of course I'm sure it's inpact you on a personal level, but how is that impacted you on a professional level? It's nice and it's guy. Wouldn't, I mean, I'm upset. I wouldn't go without it anymore. Like I just I know my brain was like before. I would take ten minutes. I'd ten minutes a day, ten minutes out to meditate every morning, versus what did it like after? And so I already know that. I already have been. So I've already seen both worlds. Not going back to the old one anymore because it's such a better one and I'm able to think clearly about to stay focused. It just it keeps you alive, because a lot of meditations like getting back to the breath or getting back to the thing that's like that you're thinking about in the moment or talking to so if you're having a conversation with somebody, we have but a hard thing you're trying to overcome, it teaches you to be able to stay focused on that thing without having your mind going like a hundre different places at once, and so meditations a big one. I then Journal directly after in my journal Right, three things I'm grateful for every morning. This is also that did I started meditation is in the same times, a thirteen hundred days about in a row. journaling three things are great for every morning. And then journaling about all the amazing things that happened to day priors. Everything I did that was amazing happened the day before. It's like you may say, like some day, some days could be like not great, but you have to do what you can to find the things that were amazing that day and write those in the Journal. You can always find something. Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's in. Then I and then I work out six days per week, lift weights or run in run once week. So exercise also really, really important. You know, it's funny. I've interviewed hundreds of innovators over the last few years on this show and you know, besides just the work that we do, always talking to entrepreneurs and innovators and I don't have any true data to substantiate what I'm getting ready to stay right now, but the ones that are taking care of their physical wellbeing and have some type of mindset, training, habits and practice like you just described. Usually are the ones that are much more successful than the ones that are not carving out top that time and just completely immersed and invested in their businesses, you know, which you know we hear a lot about, but it's just really good to emphasize that. Sometimes we think it's an oxy Moaron that I'm going to take time away to go do these things. Right, when to take time away to go to the gym when I could be here solving a problem? But it actually becomes much more effective at we become much more efficient, more productive when we were take that time for ourselves. Yeah, Jim Rown, great guy, you know, great personal development speaker. Train and tell your robins.

Jim rown talks about you should work harder on yourself and you do on your job, and if you work harding yourself, you'll get you improve, it come better to be better at your job, and so I'm always took that to heart. So as I'm I'm always and then you know if I'm not, and I'm also reading and learning every day, like I'm constantly student, trying to get better at being a better leader. I mean so I was talking to someone earlier last night. It was like the difference be like an entrepreneur, in my opinion, and like a CEO, because once your business gets over a hundred people, what made you great as an entrepreneur is always a going to make you great as a CEO long term. There's different skill sets and things you have to do when you start getting to like a larger group of people and you're leading them to hopefully to a place of success. And and so I'm in that process of like really developing my skills become better at the becoming of the best CEO I possibly can. It. Love the entrepreneur part of like starting to think from the ground up, and I still have the entprene entrepreneur tendencies to create new products and new ideas, but like that can also cause chaos when we're come consecrating new stuff and then the team's like trying to figure out how it all works. It's like for me, I have to take a step back a little bit and become more of that CEO than the Entrepreneur, and and that is I'm also learning and trying to get better better at that too. Yeah, absolutely. I agree that there is a different skill set and kind of attitude, if you will, that you need when you're that like scrappy start up, versus when you're, you know, looking to more scale the business and take it to a different level, you know, more structure processes. So what is is we wrap up here? What is something that you want to make sure that the audience takes away from our conversation today? Well, a couple, I mean, hopefully, you know, adversity like the covid situation can only you know, depending on how you look at it. You can look at it like is this the end or is this just the beginning? And so I think really looking at aversity the right way and asking the right questions, that at saying like shoot, like why do this have to happen, or why? Why we have to go through this, versus how can we, you know, the question we ask right, how can we add more value to our clients in this time? And then don't ask it once, repeated over and noever again. And and yeah, I think just like have fun and if and if you're someone that's interested in in I mean I know if you're listen, if you're interested, want to learn more about me. I'm let your last night question a second, but if you want to learn more about me, you can have a podcast, which is creator of circumstance. It's on the APP, Apple Podcast, spotify, list different places and if you want to, if you're interested in working at deer doc or you have somebody that's interested of attention working at deer doc, go to careers dot get deer doccom and you can apply for any open roles there. Maybe it's a friend, family, younger brother, younger sister, whoever, son, daughter. We're constantly hiring more people to try to help and serve more and help wonderful. Love it. So thank you so much for joining us in the conversation today. Yes, thank you for having me. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market and I value your time and attention. To get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Health Innovators.

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