Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 79 · 7 months ago

“Discovering” the key to building a successful startup w/ Jason Mellad


When there’s a 95% failure rate for go-to-market innovations in the US, you have to wonder: what is actually happening?

Resources, tools, templates, and an abundance of accelerator programs should equal a stronger success rate, right? No, actually it doesn’t.

In fact, the flood of resources might be exactly what holds the success rate down for innovators trying to bring solutions to the market.

Jason Mellad of Start Codon, a UK-based accelerator, has experience both inside and outside of the US markets — and he brings those insights to the table this week for our viewers.

If you’ve ever wondered what the best approach to take with a potential investor is — what attitude, knowledge, position you need to bring to the table to secure funding — here’s your show!

Intelligent and passionate about delivering solid solutions and improved patient outcomes, Jason gets down to the real business of building a successful startup.

Here are the show highlights:

  • The difference between the UK and US accelerator markets (1:29)
  • What startups need to understand when mapping out solutions (5:34)
  • How to avoid bias that can lead your startup down the wrong path (11:48)
  • Why it’s so important to embrace constructive criticism (16:29)
  • This is how you convince your investors to invest in research (20:52)
  • Three qualities innovators need to show investors, NOT tell them (29:31)

Guest Bio

Jason Mellad is the CEO, Co-Founder, and Managing Partner of Start Codon, a healthcare and life sciences accelerator helping startup businesses build to succeed on a global scale. 

Focused on innovative technologies and solutions that provide better patient outcomes, Start Codon is the result of Jason’s love of science and passion for entrepreneurship. 

Jason earned his BSc in Molecular Biology and Chemistry from Tulane College in 2004, and his Ph.D. in Medicine from the University of Cambridge in 2009.

If you’d like to get in touch with Jason after the show, feel free to reach out to him via email at, on Twitter at @J Mellad , or on LinkedIn at Jason Mellad

I you're listening to health, innovators,a podcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and earlyadoptors,who are shaping the future of health care. ONM. Your host Dtr Roxy Movie Welcome Back Health Innovators ontoday's episode. I Have Jason Malan with me and he is the CO founder of start codon.Welcome to the show Jason. Thank you rosy happy to be here. It is so awesometo speak with you again. So if you could for ar listeners, if you couldinviewers, if you could just tell everyone a little bit about yourself,what you do to give us some context for today'sconversation sure so I am originally from Louisiana and I grew up. Therewent to school. There ended up yeah its the place to be Um, went to school atTolan University in New Orleans, which adoor and still consider Louisana newORLEAS to be home, but I was aworder O Marshal Scholarship to study in the UKand the University of Cambridge in two thousand and four and I've been herepretty much ever since decided. I did not want to be an academic came here toDi my PGDA medicine moved into industry, and now I run an accelerator calledstartcode on bedy Serin Cambridge, where we are trying to find the mostinnovative and high potential early stage. Lifescign startups, therapeutics,dignostics, digital health, Ormenttech get them funded, give them advice andguidance and help them to really thrive. So what year? Did you start that so we officially started in twothousand and nineteen, but our first investments were last year right beforethe pandemic hit in February, t o thousand and twenty okay. So is the you know. UK market is saturated withaccelerators like we are in the US. Yes, and no so there's something like athousand accelerators in the UK market is a brotively small country. But whatwe call an accelerator here is not how...

...we refer to them in the states. Mostosoas in the states invest e for equity or the provisome kind of financialcompensation in the UK. A lot of programs that are dis, incubator, spaceor maybe a bit of mentorship illcall themselves, an accelerator so they're,not any that have funds to invest in companies, but there are loads ofguidance and incubator space programs R, and is that what makes the work thatyou guys do different it is. We felt that there was a gap in the market andwe wanted to bring together what we felt were the kind of stewards and exceptional talent of the CambridgeBiotechnice, because system was the neading hub in Europe to not only a kind of honet. So if anybodycould have access but really to open access outside of Cambridge, so you'renot physically living here, if you're in Bristol or Edinburgh, wherever youare in the UK, you can say well, I wish I could get access to all that talentand Cambridge. We could be that conduat for them, so we were hoping to kind of increase the number of Spinas fromacross the UK, but using the talent that we have in kingrish to do so,that's great! So how is it going? Obviously, you knowwriting the roller coaster of healthcare. Novation can be reallyexciting, you know. So what's the journey venlike so far for you, it's been fantastic. I mean this reallyis my dream job. When I left my previous company Camere Acke geneticswhereias there for six years and still ador Tim, I'm actually wearing a jumperfrom them as we speak, Los Games, UPA genetics, but when I left it was had tobe for something incredible and so the opportunity, particularly in the UK,where there's a real need to support more spinouts, especially in thehealthcare pace. It's been fantastic. It's been a rollercoast in a lot ofdifferent ways. We just got started right before the pandemicats. We wentvirtual. Originally we were planning Ond, having a physical space and we'dall be there together and Iwould, be wonderful and two weeks, but go homelockdown. So we've now had nine...

...companies come through we're expectinganother five to start with us and March April time, and in many cases I haven'tmet them in person. So that's been a whole new concept, but also goingthrough this pandemic. I think if we can say positive things come from it.There's always positivity you can find is es an a renewed focus on healthcare.So there's a lot of interest MON investors and backing these companiesand providing guidance. So I think now the perfect time in the way, if youhave a solution in the healthcare space to be started, but it has been quite aroller coaster, yeah so obviously there's multiple stages of aninnovations, life cycle and a company's life cycle. What made you pick startupsearly stage startups, I think, there's a significant line, seen it saing actyWa, and I, like I love it. It's like I just love that Adrenalin Ruth I lovegetting things started. I think therere people who, if you can look at it threepaces ar people, are really good starting things and the people who aregreat at the kind of scale in maintenance and the maybe people whoare good at the tail and whenyou're kind of going for an exit of some sort.I very much thrive at the beginning. I'm like right. You got an idea. Let'sit down this map, ut out. What resources do you need? This isfantastic. What do we need to do? That's what makes me really excited andhappy, and I get to do it again and again and again and then hopefully helpthose companies and opportunities figure out what they need for the nexttage and say which investors do you need for face to you've done the seedstate? What about the kind of scale up in GROWT PACE? What kind of leadershipdo you meen? What kind of business plan do you need for that pace? So I knowwhere I really thrie an Snine on my my my cofounder ind, my other we're all ofa similar to we really like that challenge of getting something startedgetting in off the ground, building the foundation and then we're trying tofind partners to take on the next piece and help them go to the next phace ofGroth. So in your work, what are the biggest challenges thatthe companies that you're working with, or the innovators that you're workingwith that they're facing maybe before the pandemic, or you know maybe howthat's changed or in what's happening..., yeah? I think that there may be someoperational challenges, people of face with pandemic. There was a a bit ofreluctance to invest in new companies, wo whereats the beginning of thelucknown last year, but as we expected from September, everybody went thecomplete opposite. They said we need to deploy our capital, we've been hunger,town and being very risk anverst, but now we're like we need to invest. Soit's been a flurry of opportunities from that standpoint, but I would saythat the early stage companies they really need to understand that it's notabout the tech, is about a product solution for an UNMENT need, but theyneed a lot of HP, understanding and lapping out that need figuring out whatproduct solution they'll develop as opposed to Tis. Focusing on I've got agreat piece of tech. I published a great at you know: Nature Paper, acellpaper! Isn't that wonderful! So that's that's nice, but nobody caresabout thet in the business world. What lives? Are you saying? What costare you reducing? How are you like? What are you actually what's theproblem, you're solving and then to understand that there's only so mucheducation, you can do they need team members who can help them execute and alot of that we look at. Are you know? First Time, te es Ar postots or Frprofessors have never spun out technology before and they really knowwhat they know very well and we coan educate them to make them more businessatly, but we can't turn them overnight into they start up CDO. So we need tothink about the balance of what the companies are bringing to the tablealready assess them and then help them build their teams because of the teamsthat make for successful companies. Tech comes and goes the take you startoff with. Might I be the tack you end up with you might license something inso you can't be just about the tect today, but the team you bring it theright team with experience and then ambition. That's how you make surethese early sae companies can really fly and that's something that all ofour companies are actively trying to find those team members yeah yeah. Thatmakes so much sense. So so you've talked a little bit about investing soyou're an investor yourself. So...

...what? What are the companies that you're looking to invest in likewhat makes it attractive, especially for these early stage? Companies, whereyou know we know like they might not have a technology built? Is thatsomething that you prefer to be even earlier stage where 's they're stillidiating they've got a good idea, but it hasn't even been tested and thenyou've got other investors that are looking for something that's been built.That has clinical evidence already developed and maybe even has some paincustomers. So what is the the Prosang cons of those investment potential andthen what you guys are doing and Youare firm? So we very much see that our gapis a little bit further from idiation is when you've had profal concept, soopportunities were looking at either. Our partner is a Rosgenantechanofbartist, for example, some of our mentors give us a very clearunderstanding of the UNMEAT need and then we go and try to find technologiesand companies that are addressing this unmeat needs. The other side of it iswhen somebody approaches us with a novel platform and novel play, and thenthey say we demonstrated this an unthat need and I've got a solution I'mdeveloping for it. So either way we're looking for people who have reallyunderstood that problem and they have a solution that we think is compellingand unique, but also has some proof of concept and a reason to believe itwillwork. So, for example, we've invested in Gen editing companies, so theyDononstrat en we net Chrisper hot topic. But what are you bringing this new tothe table? We have an our portfolio and functional Genomans Company andAntibody Drug Conjugat Company, so lots of we have an a sell therapy company.These are areas that have been trodden before, but we've taken a second lookand said: Well, people have been in thi space, but actually they needed tosolve XYZ problems and this companys solving those problems so it'll make itmore efficient. It'll bring, you know, save more lives, it'll enable morepeople to access this plotform. That's...

...when we think that's perfect, but thatearly crup of concept we invest and we help them achieve a data that they needfor the next level of investor. So you might have invutro data play somecelllines and you need to get some MOUs data, so we might fund you for Theinfevor work. Maybe you have the Nvbo data, but you need to do some marketresource and really Hon. Your Business Plan will help with that. So wer thatintermediate step to then go with them to the investor. Who will say, I willgive you the money to get into the clinic I'll. Give you the money to helpyou bring your product to cemical. Tro othat gives you an advantage becauseyou are, you know, investing in some of these companies. So you know whatyou're looking for you know what the investor market is looking for, and soyou're able to help better shape those investor decks and obviously all of theyou know, work that goes behind the tangible data and business plan,development that goes behind the deck so that they are presenting themselvesin a much more effective. Compelling Way, I think, ultimately does give usthat advantage. I mean the idea that we're looking for a market pool, asopposed to as pushing tech out there was the market omatment Callin for aswell as we know what they want. We very much view ourselves as kind ofdeveloping products ourselves we're almost like a start up beline. We haveproducts with ar the companies we indestin and we need to make sure thatthose diamonds in the rough get polished up in position appropriately,so they can actually carry on and get t the next stage with their growth. Iwill say, though, that it's riskier, so we have to be very risk tolerant inthis an bracing, because a lot of DCS some are mitrae building, but many areexpecting the hard that first phase and been accomplised, so they can take onthe next pace right. There are not more opportunities that I think areultimately viable, but don't have the handholding support that we providethat could be feeding into the pipelines of those later stays seriesey investors, but it takes an organization on Start Cote on thecoming early and do that so as much as we have the advantage, we also areembracing risk a lot more than some of the later SAS investors. Okay, thatmakes sense. So so I think the...

...innovator's mindset is is really a, maybe a domain that we don't talk aboutas much. Oh, we don't even maybe invest as much time in shaping right, so we'rethinking about the business tools and maybe even the business skills and,like you said, the technology and the business plan, but the innovatormindset- you know most innovators come with. You know some vision, some amount of risk ar right, because that'swhy they're, even here, to begin with crazy enough to think that they canchange the world with their innovation. But you know what do you think isreally critical for that mindset to make sure that they're resilient or tomake sure that they don't have biased personal preferences and bias that areintegrated into their whole process? That could lead them. You know down thewrong path, es an excellent question that one of my alltime person, Thos superheares, is mymom in this regards. So I'm going to use her as some example as what I thinkinnovator motion. She was Lik, like my dad immigrated tothe states many mes ago in the S, went to school in Ohio and and ended upmoving to Louisiana and was been fascinating, asd she trained as asocial worker, but she has had so many different jobs and has she seit ofbusinesses. She had a pharmacy. She had a clinic that she was running for herkids. She was seling cosmetics for Maryk, cosmetic doorto door andremember going door to doorer with her when I was a kid and learning like kindof entrepreneurial hustle that she always had, and she told me is sothunny sold Avon with my grandmother when I was little in Louisiana, exactlyexactly s Louisiana strong. We know t a now eactly where I coming from, butthat gets that instills in you from a young age at entrapretty, online stetand my mom would always tell me things like don't let where you start dictatewhere you end up, and it's so true,...

...arout Theno wait, but so it's all about being louisia'm,strong and really understanding, but something my momis always tell us andshow us by example that you shouldn't let where you start dictate where youend up and there's this rasilience and thisdesire to always find improvement like we laugh because the way we communicatewhen we talk on the phone she's always like. Oh it's not this idea. TBUT! Wecan do it better, Okar, VISII E, literally! That's we what at each other,all the time! Here's a bit idea! That's the business idea, oh, you know oober'sdoing this, could they do it this way, then its fun is? Is You know a jokethat we have theye're always trying to you know, come up something that wecould be selling ore doing, but it's that mindsaid that you can alwaysimprove. I think a lot of people who don't have the innovator mindset. Theylook out there and they see competitors and they see roadblocks, Tha innovatorsees opportunity and the thing I say time and time againis that you don't have to be the first to do something. You don't have to bethe only one to do it. You just have to think about how you can be the best yeah o moment. Yeah absolutely so I wasworking with physician an nevator the other day, and this specific topic cameup where they had the perception that there was no competitors in the spacethat they wanted to play and for them that was is. That was a sore sign ofsuccess, and so they were really excited like we're going to have tocreate the category. This is so wonderful and it's like a shoe in right,because no one else is doing it, and so we have this conversation of like whoacreated a new category is not a bad thing. That could be a good thing, butit's also a very expensive thing and it's a higher risk endeavor, and so we actually did alittle bit of research and we uncovered that sure enough. There actually issomeone in that space, and I thought he was going to cry and I was like No.This is a good thing. This IIS justifies and validates your idea.There is a market for this thing, they've already done that work for you,you don't have to,...

...and so we started talking about wellwhat it's like to be a second fit or fast follower and how you know the prosand cons of that strategy versus being first to market and he's like. Oh, okay,all right. So this is a good thing. Yes, this is a good thing, I'm so glad yousaid that it was so true Russi's, a hundred persen spot on, because peoplehave this mindset that they think I have to convince an investor thatthere's nobody else out there. So they back me because I means I have nocompetition when the fact we're all thinking. HMM, I wonder it's eitherbecause there's no market or you haven't done your homework and thereiscompetition or it's not really a problem to besolved. E An e were thinking, Yep, yeah yea, exactly so speaking of a problemthat no one's looking assalves. So what is your experience when you are workingwith someone who is extremely passionate about solving a problem andkind of Gung Ho and moving fast and furious down this path in investingsignificant resources and building out whatever that Solutionis going to beand skipping that problem solution, fit validation? That's so pritical to makesure that they're building something that someone actually cares about oters doing in that in that Sutasituation. I see it all the time and I think part of the resilient and thatdesire to really say I'm going to keep pushing H, espite the naysayers, anself confidence that is fantastic, but when you don't want, is to get into theArrogante side where you're operating in your own hype bubble, you're, notpessure, testing your ideas and you just say well, I know this is my plan,its always been my plan and I don't care what the people have told me asadvisors. They don't know now. Occasionally there are Tay Sayers outplayer, but I say that if you're getting advicewent people are justbeing negative they're, not speaking to the right people. You want constructivecriticism. You want to presture test your ideas. You can want that feedbackand do the market research. I cannot...

...tell you enough how many times I getpeople come to me and said I did a OA, Google Ang. I read a market researchreport. I knows like. Did you talk to the payer providers? Did you talk tosome of your competitors? Did you talk to other people in the field that youreally test? Your idea, do you really understand the market you're going forand your distence model, because you shouldn't be afraid of thatcriticism. In fact, you should be embracing it. You should be findingpeople who are criticizin and to pove your idea and ' Sto pressure tested youthat's what you're looking for dom just surround yourself by maybe some lovedones who say? Oh, that's, wonderful! There! It's a great idea! No that doesn't help. I peopleibe Constructev the credit t e,critical and embrace them and and higher than if you can yeah yeah, andthis is something I talked a lot about too, which I'd love to get your opinionon this mindset of. Well, I did a customer discovery. You know weinterviewed twelve people and so we're good versus this mindset of and now like fim just going back andand now we're moving on to something else, the next phase of this processversus no no, no. This is just who you are and what you do and customerdiscovery those types of interviews, those types of validation until youactually reach product market fit customer discovery is just part of YourBusiness Operating Protocol and even when you get to product market, fityou're still doing customer discovery, because it's discovering the next ideathen righ yesociis, like it, should be fundamental and rigorous and continuousyeah. We when I was launching research tools in my previous job to the market,we had to do that and we had some really tough conversations from our youknow: mindamly viable product, fors salvo. They went okay. Well, this isnice, but it's you know too expensive and it doesn't fit with tits anddoesn't got and you go. Thank you for that Beba. Let me go back and we'll fixit and we'll come back out again. You can't just say because I know we haveactually some, let's say: There's always that personor persons in the room who go. Oh those...

...people, they don't know what they'retalking about. Oh, the customers, if you ask them, they always give you somenegativity and yeah to you've, got to filter that out and not all feedback isconstructive feedback. So you need to be able to understand if somebody istelling you what they want versus what they need. Ard they giving you a goodfeedback that can transplane something else, and you can't just be superficialwith it. It can't just be well, I ask them, I do be like Arb and they told mea so I'm making a you goo really. Did you understand what the problem was ordid you just trap them and they give you the answer that you wanted, so yougotto bereally care about how you design those studies, but absolutely iscontinuous. It t needs to be rigorous and you have to make sure you do ithonestly inconstructibly even with us. Is Investors we're always asking forfeeback from the companies on our portfolio and from our board members,because we're constantly improving and we say well, we have this program forthe Acelerator. Is it working for you? Did that talk workerter this one? NotAre we giving you the templete and support that you actually need thisbeneficial? We need that feed bat. I don't want to stake my head in the sandand say we set out of program. Here's how it is and too bad if you don't likeit hit, doesn't help anybody yeah, yeah, absolutely so one of the one of thethings that I hear in resistance to what you just described, often when I'mworking with CIENTE is well but who's going to pay for that,like that sounds really expensive, so who's paying for it. And how am Ipersuading my investors that they might be in that I'm going to be using theirmoney and resources to invest in all this market research, instead ofactually building out a product right now, so I think that sometimes because theyhaven't bought into it, it makes it really difficult for them to sell totheir board or to sell to their investors on the justification of doingthis first to have that type of validation process.What do you say to that? What I say to them is that you're saving yourself alot of headache and heardache in the long run, because essentially, if youreally understand your tha unmeant me, your addressing then you're much morelikely DEVELOPA product, that's going... have traction and actually bring inthe revenent. You fodecast that crazy hockey stick. We see in all thosebusiness plans that doesn't just create aself overnight, there's a reason whymost of those hockey stits flaten than become linear, because a poor productmarket fit because you didn't have the right question in the first place. Soeven if you have the right product, if it's the wrong me the wrong, you knowit could be. How do you say you can be developing a hammer and then trying tofind the mail only the other way, oe happen so often all the time. So that'show you convince your investors. I say the same thing with team buildingfactor that, in early on, I was speaking to one of the leadingexecutive recruiters in the in Europe just the other day, a friend of mine,and she was telling me how often people think of recruitment as an afterthoughtteam building upskilling as an afterthought like Ia, Tarl Sot thatguess we'll hire somebody factor that into your budget from day one and he asa lot of t e, exactly recruiters. They do want their pound of flesh, but it'sworth it and take the time to get the right and leadership in it'll. Save youthe pain of having the completely cycle through leaders again and again andagain, Uil you get a rid it'll cost you more the longer it's exactly the samething for Markin Ouser indestinit. Clearly in the business plan, make it apriority and investenit early yeah. So I'm going to ask you this question: We've got thousands and thousands ofaccelerators and incubators, and we still have this pretty alarming failurerate of you know. Ninety five percent right of innovations are brought tomarket fail, so what's happening from your perspective,if we've got more resources, more tools, more frameworks, more advisors, more ofthese accelerators and incubators than ever before. Why aren't we moving the needle more? Ithink a lot of it comes back to exactly what we were saying. It has to be amarket pull. I think, a lot of these programs and nooffensis thm, some of them arecall stagnators, and I don't mean that to bein a mean thing, but there are a lot of sagmators out there where they think...

I have the resources to make available,lab space and office space and Mintors, and all that that's great son comingand then eventually, if the companies move on the next one comes in and it'slike a business, but are they really being judged on metrics of howsuccessful those companies are AC, avthat they've gone through the programand also are they selecting companies based upon the right criteria? Are they thinkingthese are companies that are going to be viable or ar they thinking? Theseare companies wore available now who want to use my space and maybe pay myfees, etc. Right yeah, because we're throwing good money after bad andputting more and more things in the pipeline doesn't mean, on the other end,we're going to get more successful products, an better patient outcomes.We need to be doing get the opposite way around. All these acceleratorprograms should be tapping into the market, researchers and tapping intothe expert to begin with and saying what is it that you actually need allright? Those are the programs ARD THOSE AFE, the companies I'm going to supportbecause they have the likelihood of being successful as opposed to you're acompany. I'm sure we can help you find that nail, your hammer come on it. Let's spend a year trying to find weait out, and then the next one will come. throughntprightyeah, you know so you kind of you've got your business in the UK, but butyou also have a foot in the US market as well, so kind of just describe someof the pros and cons you know as innovators as we kind of blur the lines of some ofthose regional or national global limitations right of geography. Youknow what are the pros and cons of launching an innovation in the UKversus the US for our audiences that are trying to make a decision on whatmakes sense. especially you know a market, maybe they're more familiarwith, like the US that has a lot of bureaucracy, still a lot of a lot ofchallenges, around reimbursement and regulatory and then other markets thathave more of a socialist health care...

...system and how that might be prose andcons for them to consider definitely so I'll kind of start from the bottom ofbuildup. I think that there's world class innovation in the UK, absolutelyworld class, and obviously there's amazing inonvations. You know from likeof Harvard and Stafford etc all over the US as well, but the UK has aparticularly high concentration of the Hantul universities or outstanding andalways punching ovr their way like Oxford, kingrers, cl imperial so and soforth. So that means you've got amazing young talent, not necessarily withcommercial experience, but very, very clever, and I may Ip as well. So, ifyou're looking for great technologies, historically, a lot of the US companiescome shopping in the UK. They in license they acquire. You know earlystage, companies on the relatively cheap which I'll come to in a secondand so itwas a great hunting ground for innovation, always ask them wheretherbe genomics. You know, AI, whatever may be the UKs fantastic for that. Thetalent here is a lot more affordable than in the states. If you want to hirea team of binent femiticians to work on your artificial intelligence companyit'll be a lot easier to grab them in the UK and they'll be a lot moreaffordable than if you're in the states fere. The competition is fierce andthey're commanding higher salaries yeahfor. In terms of talent acquisitiona lot more affordable in the UK than the US and the UK, unfortunately, therearen't as many experience commercial needs for companies. So it's harder torecruit that side. You can rit the Sciene side, but not it's harder tofind the DD and the kind of seasweet side it's harder to secure thefinancing, because ultimately, premany valuations hereetting to be lower. There are more risk ofverse, vcs as a whole. I was sayingthe Yuk compared to the states- and I gave is when I was I my former company and I went and pissed inthe UK people would say: Do you really need to raise twenty million contr rasefifteen? I could 't be Trunchit, and are you really sure about this and thenI went to Thi stace and the Li Wan'.

You raise ing a hundred million you'retrying to develop a diagnotic test. Don't you believe I' You're tilling andit's like like be ipressed? Why are you raisingmore then? The UK ther like? Why are you raising so much Brat e pit is a very so things seen to be a bitmore tortoise in the UK and a bit more hair. If I would had to make ae, that'ste great analogy, so it just you kind of go a balance the to in the US. Ifyou go to an investor and you'V get that passion in that vision, and wereally know how to commercialize and pitch you grip that funding you canbring in a healthy serios an race, and then you can find the tech in the UKthey're much more reserved ar much more focused on so thet. One steady, reallywell defined, rnd development plans and then a commercial strategy whereeventually you will enter the US market. So a final piece when it comes to theSocial Harit Carreer, a the NHS vers of the state, you have that basically, a monopoly for asingle pair provider. T you're going to it's really great in terms of gettingaccess to samples for developing test for findinga point for chemical trials. But if you want your product to make it into theNHS they're very cost price, sensitive excret me so on average it takes aboutseventeen years for a new innovation to be adopted by the NS. So we're usingtech that was deployed in the US decade to go is just now making this way intothe healthcare system here, Choa. So a lot of companies in the UK use thesocial system here to develop their product and then they launch in Americaand then eventually it comes back to the UK yeah. That makes so much sense.So so, and that's great I'm so glad that you share those insights. I thinkthe viewers and the listeners will just really appreciate that. So I want topick your rain a little bit more. So, in your experience, what are the toptwo or three like most important considerations or strategies andtactics that you think ultimately canlead to commercial e sucset success,... definitely kind of ry capping a bitof what we sayd is definitely understanding the UNMEAT meet you haveto you have to demonstrate when you pitsh to me, or I think any really ofthe main credible investors show me that you know it better than anybodyelse. You live and breathe that unmeant me you've done the recearch you've donethe homework, and you can tell me that whatever it takes you're so passionateabout it Thas's a second thing: You denisfiate, that you have that passionand relentlessness that you will deliver and if that means you've got tobring in the tech or whatever, maybe or come up with a new business model.Whatever it takes, you are determined you're going to make that different. Soyou understand the need. You've got that determination of relitlessness. I would say that you've got to have theteam, so once you've shown me, those ferstton show me that you can build that team. That's going to execute on it,you have to be selfaware enough to know what your own personal gaps andimitations are. I'm not looking for somebody who is perfect. I'm lookingfor someone who self aware. That's what I really right. I must haven that I' also look come ot me and say: I'm all singing on dancing. That'sgreat I'Maost son to come to me and says. Well, you know I've got a lot ofbusiness experience, but I'm a bit weaker on the science, but I guess whatI've got a CSO who's fantastic on the science and together we're going tomake this happen, or maybe I don't understand the climical side, but I'vegot a chief medical officer, a coical adviser who feels that Gat, that's whatI'm looking for so so. That is something that I don'tthink we even talk about enough. I mean we s. We often, I think, just as humanbeings want to act like we have it all we're this superhero inevaders,especially if you're you know in that early stage, where you're so lowentrepreneur or just early stage- and you have it- you know, built the team.Yet you know you want to just make up stuff as you go, Yep got that coverdgot that cover, thinking that that, like there's no gaps makes more of anattractive offer, which I think is really the opposite in my experience islike now, you want to run for the hills...

...right, even buth, the thing that the Anictawere talking about earlier bout, the competitors. I want someone to comes tome s, Tis right. I know my competitors inside and out. This is the market.This aspect crowded, here's a niece and he's addressing I've got a solution forI here's my Dono Strategy, I'm going to do with the N W ABFC that they do well,but I'm going to change these aspects, T af they don't! That is like right,you'R team, that we came back, but it's the onestty in that selfawareness isKade. Absolutely so Jason. I have had such a great conversation with youtoday. Thank you so much for being here, you've shared so much wisdom andinsights with our audience. How can folks get a hold of you if they want totouchface with you after the show Russi? Thank you for having me. I love this somuch they can reach me at Jason at start Codon DTCO. You can also find meon twitter, J, Mellod and please recot on link, then. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and Ivalue your time and attention to get the latest episodes on your mobiledevice automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP likeapple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening, and Iappreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues, see you onthe next episode of Health, innovator.

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