Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 79 · 10 months ago

“Discovering” the key to building a successful startup w/ Jason Mellad

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

When there’s a 95% failure rate for go-to-market innovations in the US, you have to wonder: what is actually happening?

Resources, tools, templates, and an abundance of accelerator programs should equal a stronger success rate, right? No, actually it doesn’t.

In fact, the flood of resources might be exactly what holds the success rate down for innovators trying to bring solutions to the market.

Jason Mellad of Start Codon, a UK-based accelerator, has experience both inside and outside of the US markets — and he brings those insights to the table this week for our viewers.

If you’ve ever wondered what the best approach to take with a potential investor is — what attitude, knowledge, position you need to bring to the table to secure funding — here’s your show!

Intelligent and passionate about delivering solid solutions and improved patient outcomes, Jason gets down to the real business of building a successful startup.

Here are the show highlights:

  • The difference between the UK and US accelerator markets (1:29)
  • What startups need to understand when mapping out solutions (5:34)
  • How to avoid bias that can lead your startup down the wrong path (11:48)
  • Why it’s so important to embrace constructive criticism (16:29)
  • This is how you convince your investors to invest in research (20:52)
  • Three qualities innovators need to show investors, NOT tell them (29:31)

Guest Bio

Jason Mellad is the CEO, Co-Founder, and Managing Partner of Start Codon, a healthcare and life sciences accelerator helping startup businesses build to succeed on a global scale. 

Focused on innovative technologies and solutions that provide better patient outcomes, Start Codon is the result of Jason’s love of science and passion for entrepreneurship. 

Jason earned his BSc in Molecular Biology and Chemistry from Tulane College in 2004, and his Ph.D. in Medicine from the University of Cambridge in 2009.

If you’d like to get in touch with Jason after the show, feel free to reach out to him via email at Jason@StartCodon.co, on Twitter at @J Mellad , or on LinkedIn at Jason Mellad

You're listening to health innovators, apodcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adoptors who are shapingthe future of healthcare. I'm your host, Dr Roxy Movie. Welcome back healthinnovators. On today's episode I Have Jason Milan with me and he isthe CO founder of start code on welcome to the show, Jason. Thankyou, Roxy, happy to be here. It is so awesome to speak withyou again. So if you could, for our listeners, if you couldin viewers, if you could just tell everyone a little bit about yourself, what you do, to give us some context for today's conversation? Sure. So. I am originally from Louisiana and I grew up there, wentto school there, ended up, yes, the place to be. Went toschool at Tulane University in New Orleans is I adore and still consider LOUISANAand New Orleans to be home, but I was awarded a Marshal Scholarship tostudy in the UK and the University of Cambridge in two thousand and four andI've been here pretty much ever since. I decided I did not want tobe an academic came here to did my phd in medicine moved into industry andnow I run an accelerator called Start Code on, based here in Cambridge,where we are trying to find the most innovative and high potential early stage lifesigne. Startups Therapeutics, Diagnostics, digital health or Mat Tech, get themfunded, give them advice and guidance and help them to really thrive. Sowhat year did you start that? So we officially started in two thousand andnineteen, but our first investments were last year, right before the pandemic hitin February. Two Thousand and twenty. Okay, so is the you knowUK market as saturated with accelerators like we are in the US? Yes andno. So there's something like a thousand accelerators in the UK market. isa relatively small country. But what we call an accelerator here is not howwe refer to them in the states.

Mostly so there's in the state's investat for equity or they provide some kind of financial compensation. In the UKa lot of programs that are just incubator space or maybe a bit of mentorshipwill call themselves an accelerator. So there are not many that have funds toinvest in companies, but there are loads of guidance and incubator space programs here, and is that what makes the work that you guys do different? Itis. We felt that there was a gap in the market and we wantedto bring together where we felt where they kind of stewards and exceptional talent ofthe Cambridge biotechn ecosystem, which is the leading hub in Europe, to notonly kind of hone that so anybody could have access, but really to openaccess outside of Cambridge. So you're not physically living here, if you're inBristol or Edinboro, wherever you are in the UK, you can say,well, I wish I could get access to all that talent in Cambridge.We could be that cond it for them. So we were hoping to kind ofincrease the number of spinouts from across the UK, but using the talentthat we have in Cambridge to do so. That's great. So how is itgoing? Obviously, you know writing the roller coaster of healthcare innovation canbe really exciting, you know. So what's the journey been like so farfor you? It's been fantastic. I mean this really is my dream job. When I left my previous company, Cambridge up the genetics, whereas therefor six years and still adore them. I'm actually wearing a jumper from them, as we speaks of genetics. But when I left it was had tobe for something incredible, and so the opportunity, particularly in the UK,where there's a real need to support more spinouts, especially in the healthcare space, has been fantastic. It's been a roller coast in a lot of differentways. We just got started right before the pandemic. It's we went virtual. Originally we were planning and having a physical space and we'd all be theretogether and would be wonderful and two weeks when go home lockdown. So we'venow had nine companies come through. We're...

...expecting another five to start with usin March, April time, and in many cases I haven't met them inperson. So that's been a whole new concept. But also, going throughthis pandemic, I think if we can say positive things come from it,there's always positivity you can find. There's and a renewed focus on healthcare.So there's a lot of interest when investors and backing these companies and providing guidance. So I think now the perfect time in a way, if you havea solution and the healthcare space to be starting, but it has been quitea roller coaster. Yeah, so obviously there's multiple stages of an innovations lifecycle and a company's life cycle. What made you pick startups, early stagestartups? I think there's a significant I been insane, exactly, was I? And I like I love it. It's like I just love that adrenalinerush. I love getting things started. I think they're people who, ifyou can look at it three phases, are people are really good at startingthings and the people who are great at the kind of scale and maintenance andthe maybe people are good at the tail. Then you're kind of going for anexit of some sort. I very much thrive at the beginning. I'mlike right, you got an idea, let's sit down this map it out. What resources do you need? This is fantastic. What do we needto do? That's what makes me really excited and happy and I get todo it again and again and again and then hopefully help those companies and opportunitiesfigure out what they need for the next stage and say which investors you needfor phase too. You've done the seed state. What about the kind ofscale up and growth phase. What kind of leadership do you mean? Whatkind of business plan do you need for that phase? So I know whereI really thrive and shine on my my my cofounder and my other team.We're all of a similar ilk. We really like that challenge of getting somethingstarted, getting off the ground, of building the foundation, and then we'retrying to find partners to take on the next piece and help them go tothe next phase of growth. HMM. So so in your work, whatare the biggest challenges that the companies that you're working with or the innovators thatyou're working with that they're facing? Maybe before the pandemic or you know maybehow that's changed or in what's happening today.

Yeah, I think that there maybe some operational challenges. People of facebook a pandemic. There was abit of reluctance to invest in new companies towards the beginning of the lockdown lastyear but, as we expected, from September everybody went the complete opposite.They said we need to deploy our capital. We've been hungered down and being veryrisk averse, but now we're like, we need to invest. So it'sbeen a flurry of opportunities from that standpoint. But I would say thatthe early stage companies, they really need to understand that it's not about thetech, is about a product solution for an unmet need. But they needa lot of help understanding and mapping out that need, figuring out what productsolution they'll develop, as opposed to just focusing on I've got a great pieceof tech. I published a great you know, nature paper or cell paperis not that wonderful as like that's that's nice, but nobody cares about thatin the business world. Right. What Lies Are you saying? What costyou rereducing? How are you like? What are you actually what's the problemyou're solving? And then to understand that there's only so much education you cando. They need team members who can help them execute. And a lotof what we look at are, you know, first time C years orpost Docs or, for our professor's never spun out technology before and they reallyknow what they know very well and we could educate kate them to make themmore business savvy, but we can't turn them overnight into a startup CEO.So we need to think about the balance of what the companies are bringing tothe table, already, assess them and then help them build their teams,because it's a teams that make for successful companies. Tech comes and goes.The tech you start off with might not be the tech you end up with. You might license something in so you can't be just about the tech today, but the team. You bring in the right team with experience and thenambition. That's how you make sure these early says companies can really fly,and that's something that all of our companies are actively trying to find those teammembers. Yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense. So so you'vetalked a little bit about investing. So...

...you're an investor yourself. So whatwhat are the companies that you're looking to invest in like? What makes itattractive, especially for these early stage companies where, you know, we know, like they might not have a technology built. Is that something that youprefer to be even earlier stage where it's they are still ideating, they've gota good idea but it hasn't even been tested. And then you've got otherinvestors that are looking for something that's been built, that has clinical evidence alreadydeveloped and maybe even has some paying customers. So what is the the pros andcons of those investment potential and then what you guys are doing in yourfirm. So we very must see that our gap is a little bit furtherfrom ideation. Is When you've had proof of concept, so opportunities were lookingat. Either our partners a Roastin in tech and of artist for example,and some of our mentors give us a very clear understanding of the unmet needsand then we go and try to find technologies and companies that are addressing theunmet needs. The other side of it is when somebody approaches us with anovel platform and novel play and then they say we've demonstrated as an unmet needand I've got a solution I'm developing for it. So either way, we'relooking for people who have really understood that problem and they have a solution thatwe think is compelling and unique but also has some proof of concept and areason to believe it'll work. So, for example, we've invested in geneediting companies, so they've demonstrated we never crisper hot topic. But what areyou bringing this new to the table? We have in our portfolio and functionalgenomics company and Antibody Drug conjugate company. So lots of we have a selftherapy company. These are areas that have been trodden before, but we've takena second look and said, well, people have been in the space,but actually they needed to solve x, Y and Z problems, and thiscompany solving those problems. So it'll make it more efficient, it'll bring,you know, save more lives little enable more people to access this platform.That's when we think that's perfect. But...

...that early proof of concept, weinvest and we help them achieve the data that they need for the next levelof investor. So you might have in vitro data, play some cell linesand you need to get some mouse data. So we might fund you for thein viaver work. Maybe you have the Envivo data but you need todo some market research and really hone. Your Business Plan will help with that. So with that intermediate step to then go with them to the investor whowill say, I would give you the money to get into the clinic,I'll give you the money to help you bring your product to a clinical trial. Or think that that gives you an advantage because you are, you know, investing in some of these companies. So you know what you're looking for. You know what the investor market is looking for, and so you're ableto help better shape those investor decks and obviously all of the you know,work that goes behind the tangible data and business plan development that goes behind thedeck, so that they are presenting themselves in a much more effective compelling way. I think ultimately it does give us that advantage. I mean the ideathat we're looking for a market poll as opposed to is pushing tech out.There was the market the men calling for as well, as we know whatthey want. We very much of you ourselves as kind of developing products ourselves. We're almost like a startup B lean. We have products. What are thecompanies we invest in and we need to make sure that those diamonds inthe rough get polished up and position appropriately so they can actually carry on andget to the next stage of their growth. I will say, though, thatis riskier. So we have to be very risk tolerant and MIS embracing, because a lot of DC's some are inture building, but many are expectingthe hard that first phase to been complix so they can take on the nextdays. Right. There are not more opportunities that I think, are ultimatelyviable, but don't have the handholding support that we provide. That could befeeding into the pipelines of those later stays series a investors. But it takesan organization like start code on the coming early and do that. So mostwe have the advantage. We also are embracing risk a lot more than someof the later stays investors. Okay,...

...that makes sense. So so Ithink the innovator's mindset is is really a maybe a domain that we don't talkabout as much, we don't even maybe invest as much time and shaping right. So we're thinking about the business tools and maybe even the business skills and, like you said, the technology in the business plan. But the innovatormindset, you know, most innovators come with, you know, some vision, some amount of risk or right, because that's why they're even here tobegin with, crazy enough to think that they can change the world with theirinnovation. But you know what, do you think is really critical for thatmindset to make sure that they're resilient or to make sure that they don't havebias, personal preferences and bias that are integrated into their whole process that couldlead them, you know down the wrong path. As an excellent question.One of my all time personal superheroes is my mom. In this regards,I'm going to use the as some examples what I think innovator mouths she was. It's like my dad immigrated to the state's many moons ago in the S, went to school in Ohio and ended up moving to Louisiana. And what'sbeen fascinating and she trained as a social worker, but she has had somany different jobs and has she set up businesses. She had a pharmacy,she had a clinic that she was running for a kids. She was sellingcosmetics for Mary K cosmetics door to door and I remember going door to doorwith her when I was a kid and learning that kind of entrepreneurial hustle thatshe always had, and she told me so pretty I sold Avon with mygrandmother when I was little in Louisiana. Well, exactly exactly. See Louisianastrong. We Know Right Cross you know we talked about this last time.You know exactly where I'm coming from. But that gets that instills in youfrom a young age that entrepreneur on mindset and my mom would always tell methings like don't let where you start dictate where you end up. Oh No, and it's so true. Rock see...

...that. Yeah, wait. Soit's all about being Louisiana strong and really understanding what something my mommy's always tellus and show us by example, that you shouldn't let where you start dictatewhere you end up. And there's this resilience and this desire to always findimprovement. Like we laugh because the way we communicate when we talk on thephone, she's I was like, Oh, I saw this idea, but wecan do it better. Oh, here's the business idea. Literally,that's we what's apt each other all the time. Here's a business idea.That's a business idea. Oh, you know, Uber's doing this. Couldthey do it this way then? As Fun as is, you know,a joke that we have. They were always trying to, you know,come on something that we could be selling or doing. But is that mindsetthat you could always improve? I think a lot of people who don't havethe innovator mindset. They look out there and they see competitors and they seeroadblocks. That innovator sees opportunity and the thing I say time and time againis that you don't have to be the first to do something, you don'thave to be the only one to do it. You just have to thinkabout how you can be the best. Yeah, come others. Yeah,absolutely. So I was working with physician innovator the other day and this putspecific topic came up where they had the perception that there was no competitors inthe space that they wanted to play and for them, that was in thatwas a sure sign of success, and so they were really excited, likewe're going to have to create the category. This is so wonderful and it's likea shoe in right because no one else is doing it. And sowe had this conversation of like whoa created a new category? Is Not abad thing. That could be a good thing, but it's also a veryexpensive thing and it's a higher risk endeavor, and so we actually did a littlebit of research and we uncovered that, sure enough, there actually is someonein that space. And I thought he was going to cry and Iwas like no, this is a good thing. This actually why is?It justifies and validates your idea. There is a market for this thing.They've already done that work for you.

You don't have to and so westarted talking about, well, what it's like to be a second fat orfast follower and how you know the pros and cons of that strategy versus beingfirst to market, and he's like, Oh, okay, all right,so this is a good thing. Yes, this is a good thing. I'mso glad you said that. It was so true. Ross, he'sa hundred percent spot on, because people have this mindset that they think Ihave to convince an investor that there's nobody else out there, so they'll backme because it means I've no competition, when in fact we're all thinking,Hmm, I wonder. It's either because there's no market, or you haven'tdone your homework and there's competition, or it's not really a problem to besolved. We're linking. Yep, yeah, yeah, exactly. So speaking ofa problem that no one's looking to solve. So what is your experiencewhen you are working with someone who is extremely passionate about solving a problem andkind of Gung Ho and moving fast and furious down this path in investing significantresources and building out whatever that solution is going to be and skipping that problemsolution fit validation. That's so critical to make sure that they're building something thatsomeone actually cares about doing in that in that such a situation. I seeit all the time and I think part of that resilience and that desire toreally say I'm going to keep pushing the spite the NYSAYERS and a self confidencethat is fantastic. But what you don't want is to get into the arrogantside where you're operating in your own hype bubble, you're not pressure testing yourideas and you just say, well, I know, this is my plan, is always been my plan and I don't care what the people have toldme as advisors. They don't know. Now, occasionally there are naysayers outthere, but I say that if you're getting advice from people are just beingnegative, you're not speaking to the right people. You want constructive criticism,you want to pressure test your ideas, you want that feedback and do themarket research. I cannot tell you enough...

...how many times I get people cometo me and said, I did up the googling, I read a marketresearch report. I knows. I did you talk to the pair providers?Did you talk to some of your competitors? Did you talk to other people inthe field that you really test your idea, do you really understand themarket you're going for and Your Business Model? Because you shouldn't be afraid of thatcriticism. In fact, you should be embracing it. You should befinding people who would criticize and to improve your idea and to pressure tested you. That's what you're looking for. Don't just surround yourself by maybe some lovedones who say, Oh, that's wonderful day, it's a great idea.No, that's doesn't help. But people constructively critical, critical and embrace them. And if and higher than if, you can. Yeah, and thisis something I talked a lot about too, which I'd love to get your opinionon. This mindset of well, I did a customer discovery, youknow. We interview twelve people, and so we're good. Versus this mindsetof and now like kind of just going back and and now we're moving onto something else, the next phase of this process. Versus. No,no, this is just who you are and what you do, and customerdiscovery, those types of interviews, those types of validation, until you actuallyreach product market fit, customer discovery is just part of Your Business Operating Protocoland even when you get to product market fit, you're still doing customer discoverybecause it's discovering the next idea ready, so to it's like it's should befundamental and rigorous and continuous. Yeah, we when I was launching resource toolsin my previous job to the market, we had to do that and wehave some really tough conversations from our you know, mentally biable product verse Salvo. They went okay, well, this is nice, but it's, youknow, too expensive and it doesn't fit with this, it doesn't get andyou go, thank you for that feedback, let me go back and we'll fixit and we'll come back out again. You can't just say, because Iknow we have actually some, let's say, there's always that person orperson's in the room who go, oh,...

...those people, they don't know wherethey're talking about. Oh, the customers, if you ask them to, always give you some negativity and Yetta. You've got to filter that out andnot all feedback is constructive feedback. So you need to be able tounderstand if somebody is telling you what they want versus what they need, orthey giving you good feedback, that can translate in something else and you can'tjust be superficial with it. It can't just be. Well, I askthem, do they like a rb and it told me a so I'm makinga you go really, did you understand what the problem was or did youjust track them and to give you the answer that you wanted? So yougot to really cover about how you design those studies. But absolutely it iscontinuous. It needs to be rigorous and you have to make sure you doit honestly and constructively. Even with us as investors, we're always asking forfeedback from the companies on our portfolio and from our board members because we're constantlyimproving. Let me say, well, we have this program for the accelerators. It working for you? Did that talk worker this one not? Arewe giving you the the templates and support that you actually need? This beneficial. We need that feedback. I don't want to stick my head in thesand and say we set out a program and here's how it is and toobad if you don't like it. That doesn't help anybody. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So one of the one of the things that I hear inresistance to what you just described often when I'm working with clients is well,but who's going to pay for that like that sounds really expensive. So who'spaying for it and how am I persuading my investors that they might be inthat I'm going to be using their money and resources to invest in all thismarket research instead of actually building out a product right now? So I thinkthat sometimes, because they haven't bought into it, it makes it really difficultthat for them to sell to their board or to sell to their investors onthe justification of doing this first to have that type of validation process. Whatdo you say to that? What I say to them as that you're savingyourself a lot of headache and heartache in the long run because essentially, ifyou really understand your the unmet me you're addressing, then you're much more likelyto develop a product that's going to have...

...traction and actually bring in the revenuethat you forecast. That crazy hockey stick we see in all those business plans. That doesn't just create yourself overnight. There's a reason why most of thosehockey sticks flattened out and become linear, because of poor product market fit,because you didn't have the right question in the first place. So even ifyou have the right product, if it's the wrong me, the wrong youknow it could be. How do you say? You could be developing ahammer and then trying to find a nail, always the other way around. Happenso often, all the time. So that's how you convince your investors. I say the same thing with team building. Factor that in early on. I was speaking to one of the leading executive recruiters in the Europe justthe other day, a friend of mine, and she was telling me how oftenpeople think of recruitment as an afterthought. Team building ups going as an afterthought. Like I hl sort that, I'll guess we'll hire somebody. Factorthat into your budget from day one. And yes, a lot of executiverecruiters they do want their pound of flesh. But it's worth it and take thetime to get the right leadership in. It'll save you the pain of havingthe completely cycle through leaders again and again and again until you get itright. It'll cost you more in the long run. So exactly the samething for Mark Connuser. Invest in it clearly in the business plan, makeit a priority and invest in it early. Yeah, so I'm going to askyou this question. We've got thousands and bows of accelerators and incubators andwe still have this pretty alarming failure rate of you know, Ninety five percentright of innovations are brought to market fail. So what's happening from your perspective?If we've got more resources, more tools, more frameworks, more advisors, more of these accelerators and incubators than ever before, why aren't we movingthe needle more? I think a lot of it comes back to exactly whatwe were saying. It has to be a market pull. I think alot of these programs, and no offense to them, some of them Icall stagnators, and I don't mean that to be in the mean thing,but there are a lot of stagnators out there where they think I have theresources to make available lab space and office...

...space and mentors and all that.That's great, so come in and then eventually, if the companies move on, the next one comes in and it's like a business. But are theyreally being judge on metrics of how successful those companies aren't there that they've gonethrough the program and also, are they selecting companies based upon the right criteria? Are they thinking these are companies that are going to be viable or theythinking these are companies are available now who want to use my space and maybepay my fees, etc. Right, yeah, because we're throwing good moneyafter bad and putting more and more things in the pipeline doesn't mean on theother end we're going to get more successful products in better patient outcomes. Weneed to be doing it the opposite way around. All these accelerator programs shouldbe tapping into the market researchers and tapping into the experts to begin with andsaying, what is it that you actually need? All right, those arethe programs, those are the companies I'm going to support, because they havethe likelihood of being successful, as opposed to you're a company, I'm surewe could help you find that nail, your hammer, come on it,let's spend a year trying to find it out and then the next one willcome through. That's not it doesn't help a co one. Right, yeah, you know, so you kind of you've got your business in the UK, but but you also have a foot in the US market as well.So kind of just describe some of the pros and cons, you know,as innovators, as we kind of blur the lines of some of those regionalor national global limitations right of geography. You know, what are the prosand cons of launching an innovation in the UK versus the US for our audiencesthat are trying to make a decision on what makes sense, especially, youknow, a market maybe they're more familiar with, like the US that hasa lot of bureaucracy, still a lot of a lot of challenges around reimbursementand regulatory and then other markets that have...

...more of a socialist healthcare system andhow that might be pros and cons for them to consider. Definitely. SoI'll kind of start from the bottom of build up. I think that there'sworld class innovation in the UK, absolutely world class, and obviously there's anamazing innovations the uni from likes of Harvard and staff at, et Cetera,all over the US as well, but the UK has a particularly high concentrationup a handfully universities are outstanding and always punch above their weight, like Oxford, Cambridge, ECL imperial, so and so forth. So that means you'vegot amazing young talent, not necessarily with commercial experience but very, very cleverand, I may Ip as well. So if you're looking for great technologieshistorically a lot of US companies come shopping in the UK. They end license, they acquire you know, early stage companies on the relatively cheap, whichI'll come to in a second, and so it's a great hunting ground forinnovation. Always has been, whether be genomics, you know, AI whatevermay be. The UK's fantastic for that. The talent here is a lot moreaffordable than in the states. If you want to hire a team ofbuyern from atitions to work on your artificial intelligence company, it'll be a loteasier to grab them in the UK and they'll be a lot more affordable thanif you're in the states, where the competition is fierce and they're commanding highersalaries. Yeah, we're, in terms of talent acquisition, a lot moreaffordable in the UK than the US and the UK unfortunately there aren't as manyexperience commercial leads for companies, so it's harder to recruit that side. Youcan rip the science side, but not it's harder to find the bed andthe kind of c sweet side. It's harder to secure financing because ultimately premoney valuation to your continue to be lower. There are more risk averse DC's asa whole. I was say in the UK compared to the states.The add that I give is when I was in my former company and Iwent and pissed in the UK, people would say, do you really needto raise twenty million? Could you raise fifteen and I couldn't be crunch hitand are you really sure about this? And then I went to the stateand then I weren't you raising a hundred...

...million? You're trying to develop adiagnostic test, don't you believe? And what you're doing? And it's likelike, be aggressive, why are you raising more? And then the UKthe like. Why are you raising so much? Raise a bit less?It's a very so things tend to be a bit more tortoise in the UKand a bit more hair, if I would had to make a commation.That's the great analogy. Yeah, so it does. You kind of gota balance the to in the US, if you go to an investor andyou've got that passion in that vision and we really know how to commercialize andpitch, you grip that funding, you can bring in a healthy series,a race and then you can find the tech. In the UK they're muchmore reserved, they're much more focused on Solo, one steady, really welldefined rd development plans and then a commercial strategy were eventually you will enter theUS market. So final piece. When it comes to the social health carehere, the NHS verse of the States, you have that basically a monopoly fora single pair of provider you're going to it's really great in terms ofgetting access to samples for developing test for finding a point for clinical trials,but if you want your product to make it into the NHS, they're verycost price sensitive, extremely so on the average it takes about seventeen years fora new innovation to be adopted by the NHS. So we're using tech thatwas deployed in the US decade ago is just now making this way into thehealthcare system here. Sure. So a lot of companies in the UK usethe social system here to develop their product and then they launch in America andthen eventually it comes back to the UK. Yeah, that makes so much sense, so so and that's great. I'm so glad that you share thoseinsights. I think the viewers in the listeners will just really appreciate that.So I want to pick your brain a little bit more. So in yourexperience what are the top two or three like most important considerations or strategies andtactics that you think ultimately can lead to commercial looks to set success. Sodefinitely, kind of recapping a bit of...

...what we said, is definitely understandingthe unmet need. You have to you have to demonstrate, when you pitchedme or, I think any really of the main credible investors, show methat you know it better than anybody else. You've you live and breathe that unmeantneed. You've done the reserve, you've done the homework and you cantell me that, whatever it takes, you are so passionate about it.As a second thing, you demonstrate that you have that passionate relentlessness that youwill deliver and if that means you've got to bring in the tech or whateverit may be, are to come up with a new business model, whateverit takes, you are determined you're going to make that different. So youunderstand in need. You've got that determination of relentlessness. I would say thatyou've got to have the team. HMM. So, once you've shown me thosefirst to show me that you can build that team that's going to executeon it, you have to be selfaware enough to know what your own personalgaps and limitations are. I'm not looking for somebody who is perfect, I'mlooking for someone who selfaware. That's what I'm really right. I'most of thealso become a me and say I'm all singing on dancing. That's great.Also going to comes to me and says, well, you know, I've gota lot of business experience, but I'm a bit weaker on the science. But guess what, I've got a CSO who's fantastic on the science andtogether we're going to make this happen. Or maybe I don't understand the clinicalside, but I've got a chief medical officer, a clinical advisor who fillsthat gap. That's what I'm looking for. So so that is something that Idon't think we even talk about enough. I mean we said we often,I think, just as human beings, want to act like we have itall. We're the superhero innovators, especially if you're, you know,in that early stage where you're solo entrepreneur or just early stage and you haven't, you know, built the team yet. You know, you want to justmake up stuff as you go. Yep, got that covered, gotthat covered, thinking that that, like there's no gaps, makes more ofan attractive offer, which I think is really the opposite. In my experience. Is like now you want to run...

...for the hill. So right.And even with the thing that the addictor we're talking about earlier, about thecompetitors, I want someone that comes to me as right. I know mycompetitors inside and out. This is the market, this aspects crowded. Here'sa nice and he's addressing I've got a solution for it. Here's my goodto strategy. I'm going to do with the A, B and C thatthey do well, but I'm going to change these aspects that they don't.That is right. You're a team that we can come back. Yeah,but it's the honesty and that self awareness is king, absolutely so, Jason, I have had such a great conversation with you today. Thank you somuch for being here. You've shared so much wisdom and insights with our audience. How can folks get ahold of you if they want to touch base withyou after the show? Rosy, thank you for having me. I lovethis so much. They can reach me at Jason at Start Code on dotcom. You can also find me on twitter, J Mellod, and please reach outon Linkedin. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thankyou so much for listening. I know you're busy working to bring your lifechanging innovation to market and I value your time and attention. To get thelatest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to the show on your favoritepodcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening andI appreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues. See You onthe next episode of Health Innovators.

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