Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

Innovating on the front lines: Finding inspiration and direction during a pandemic w/ Dr. Sandeep Jain

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Being a pulmonologist and critical care physician gives Dr. Sandeep Jain unique insight into how our healthcare system works — and where some of its failings may be lurking. 

After nearly 25 years working in a healthcare setting, Dr. Jain recognized a need for a better, less distracting way to facilitate quality communication between teams of doctors. That’s when he developed his ListenMD app. And it was the pandemic crisis that alerted him to additional patient needs that could be met by making adjustments and additions to his innovative solution.

In this episode, Dr. Jain explains the process of development he’s gone through to bring ListenMD to fruition, how the pandemic inspired him to pivot and make adjustments to his solution, and the future of healthcare in a post-COVID culture.  

Here are the show highlights:

  • How the pandemic has forever changed medicine (17:41) 
  • A surprising way the pandemic has improved healthcare (5:51) 
  • The easy way to manage 40+ patients and their doctors without endless distractions (9:40) 
  • How to capitalize on all the silver linings from the pandemic (16:49) 
  • Why inferior products trump superior products and how to reverse that (13:31) 
  • The sneaky way insurance companies sabotage the doctor-patient relationship with telemedicine (21:32) 
  • Why telemedicine isn’t as effective as it could be and how to improve it (20:50)
  • How to “tweak” your product to make it more effective for the pandemic (10:33) 
  • Biggest challenges facing doctors and health innovators after the pandemic (32:52) 


I've spoken with dozens of health innovators, and nearly everyone is trying to figure out their best pivot strategy. But they don't know what to change, how to pivot, or if their new pivot strategy is the right move.

So I went into overdrive putting together a clear, actionable 5-step worksheet that will help you quickly define your most viable and profitable pivot path through the COVID crisis. And I’m giving it to you for FREE — no strings attached at https://www.legacy-dna.com/pivot

Guest Bio

Dr. Sandeep Jain is the CEO and Founder of ListenMD, a HIPAA compliant messaging app that intelligently delays a message per sender’s request, enabling efficient, less intrusive communication among doctors.

He’s also a Pulmonologist and Critical Care doctor, which puts him on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic. Dr. Jain has practiced in the Fort Lauderdale, Florida area since 1996 and splits his time between working in Intensive Care units and in Pulmonary and Sleep Medicine.

If you would like to reach out to Dr. Jain to learn more about his app or to get involved, you can do so by visiting Listenmd.com or downloading the application ListenMD Doctor, which is physician facing, or ListenMD, which is patient facing. Both applications are free of charge during the current pandemic crisis.

Welcome to Coiq, where you learn how health innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy, founder of Legacy DNA and international bestselling author of how health innovators maximize market success. Through candied conversations with health innovators, earlier, doctors and influencers, you'll learn how to bring your innovation from idea to start ups to market domination. And now let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq. Welcome back to the show coiq listeners. On today's episode I am having a very, very special interview with someone who's on the front lines during this covid crisis. This is going to be Dr Sand Deep Jane. He is the CEO and founder of listen. MD Sindy, welcome to the show. Yes, thank you, and thank you so much for taking time out of your incredibly busy schedule to speak with us today. Yes, thanks when writing me. Yeah, so, before we get into, you know, the original part of our conversation where we're talking about, you know, the innovation and the innovation process and what that's what that's look like. Right, so that's what we were supposed to talk about, but I would definitely be remiss if I didn't talk. Give you an opportunity to share with us you know a little bit about your background, what you do, and then what is going on right now in your world? Sure, I'm a pulmonologist and critical care doctor. I've been in practice in Fort Lauderdale since one thousand nine hundred and ninety six. So I do intensive gear half the time, every other week, and the other part I do my pulmonary office, sleep medicine and Pulmonary Medicine Hospital, and right now it's the busy time with this epidemic going on. So in you're in Broward County, Florida. Yes, I want to say that they have the most cases in the state, or pretty down close. Yes, we are all prepped in ready for the search and supposedly things are going to get worse for the next two weeks and then level off. So hopefully we won't be like New York. So of course I hope. Now I don't thinks. I don't know. I don't think so. So you mentioned something about the cruise ships earlier. What's going on with that? Well, it's sort of sad that all these cruise ships left. You know, even saying March made March they're leaving on cruizism after all of that had happened. So of course is they said not to see that. The passengers all got infected, the CUS members the cruse ship, but cu...

...members got infected. So we have some of the crew members and people in our units right now. So it seemed awaidable. So yeah, yeah, you know, I am an avid traveler, a huge fan of cruising, and I still can't imagine getting on a cruise ship four weeks ago. Yeah, it's just they you know, I think a lot of them probably thought they were getting away from it. Yeah, and usually a cruising a lot of people find it easier because if you have health condition you can't travel, movie are letting some place to place. The cruising becomes your habit. And then the you have to do that every year. So people who are not in the the I guess people didn't understand the gravity of it right. Yeah, no, I mean I think every day we just, you know, it's becomes more and more alarming and scary in the reality of the situation. I think for a lot of us it's just even now, you know, being for or six weeks into it, it's still it's still really quite surreal. Yes, I ready of to bring yourself what is going on. It's unreal. So, especially in medicine, when we see these patients who are not responding to anything they normally do and it's a disease that no one has seen anything like this before. That's got to be pretty difficult for you going in every day, not clearly a maybe just do a job and go there and dress up and you know, you do something that you think exposed you that day, you feel like, Oh my God, let's wait fourteen days and then you say, okay, that past them all than that, man. So you are always worrying about it, but but you take the best production you can and move forward and the staff, the nurses and the people who are really on the front lines that as pretty therapist, they are all very much doing their stuff. Nobody is running away from what they have to do. So it's very impressive. Well, thank you. I know that you're really humble man and you know the I think just on behalf of all of our listeners, thank you and for you know, everybody in your crew and your team, in the work that you guys are doing, because it's no easy task to risk your lives every day for the benefit of other people. Yeah, no, it's, you know, in a way exciting times because we are, as the world, facing something together and people are dying in large numbers people are not knowing how to treat it. So the collaboration and the information that we doctors are sharing with each other is incredible. I'm getting a text from, say, a doctor in Spain who seeing Odwa,...

...you said this is that, but we're doing this, this is helping hope some detroi doctor Seyes, who we have a new theory on this. We're doing this and that, you know, and giving this thing and that's working. And then it's amazing to see the institutions that all good, like me of clinic or hard word or all the top nicus. They are all doing different things. So who do I believe? What do I do as so we have to search in choose from what you can do or want to do, from among the best people. And of course that when you get overwhelmed with the surge, you can just really keep your head about water, you know, like in New York, you basically are they got so overwhelmed. You know they did the best they can, but I think if we are able to not have that bad search. We can try to give the best care, incorporating all the newest thoughts and information which are shared in real time, basically via texts, even you know so the course the articles and not the official channels are coming, but it's quite amazing what's going on. So give us a little bit more detail about that and I think that that might be a really nice segue into the solution that you develop. Listen and day. Yes, I always felt for last three years, their doctors are not able to communicate effectively through the medical record system, which is designed to basically get you pay. So you write out a lot of stuff and it gets you pay. How much of it was necessary to communicate to the other doctor? So if I am giving you information in my note as a doctor, I am hiding the one needle of information in a lot of Hay. Basically that's the Hay I get paid with. I Make Hay by hiding the information in Hay and when you open my note you are basically blinded by the four page note. And what's he trying to say? Well, what about writing a simple text message from me to you about exactly what's going on and you don't have to find the needle in the Histeck, I'm sending you the needle directly. Wow. And the other thing I realized is people get distracted a lot. So if I'm trying to send a message to another doctor and if they're ten doctors on a case, it's a collaborative thing. A patient normally nowadays has many doctors. And then, first of all, when a doctor sees a patient, he doesn't even know who the other doctors are for that patient most of the time. And if you know who the other doctors are, you still don't want to bother them because we are sensitive about our time. We are distracted, we are getting bothered all the time. How can I bother the other doctor and just texting or messaging unnecessary. Besides, if I call this office, it wouldn't pick up and they would be such a...

...difficulty getting through. So I sort of made a patented system of messaging which is to avoid distraction. It's like a distraction free messaging where you basically are able to choose to send the message to the other person at the time that they have requested. So if that doctor wakes up at seven, he can. I can see that okay, he will get it at seven in the morning or, if it is witness day, twelve o'clock. is is silly time to send the man rig in message. I can choose to send it at that time, but then if that doctor is able to come to this statient sooner, we can pull it, say, out of the future. So that's what the patent invloves. So so that's been working out. It's reduce the distraction among doctors as we message each other in a more way, in in a faster way, and for covid especially it's very useful because as our needs change, in the old way we could manage ten, twelve, fifteen patients a day, but if I have to manage forty patients a day and keep in track with the other four doctors seeking care of that patient, how do I do it? I need my APP to do it, to message people without distraction and for them to message me back to share the essential kernels of information. So it's some guys coming in very useful currently. So so where were you or where are you in the innovation process? I keep in a waiting I mean, you know, I can't stop. That's one of the Lemma you have as innovator that right now, in fact, I'm moving forward with building something corona specific. So, okay, I realize only two weeks ago that I have a problem. Patients are inside the hospital room and nobody wants to go into the rooms and because you know, of course, one doctor goes, second doctor goes. You know, people need to do with you into the and then the family members are even in the hospital. They are outside the hospital. They can't come in the hospital right up. Normally, if a patients eighty year old and gasping and saying doctor, don't put me on a vent later, I'm afraid, I am able to talk to the sun and the mother in the same room at the same time and manage this whole process of what to do next. Here it's a vacuum. So I made the feature in my app where I could instantly do video. So if I have a patient card, I can put down this is a next of gain and this is what I said. If I hospital record say this is the next of Cain and this is a patient cell number, so then I can have both the patient and the family member on a split screen and then I can discuss with them what's happening show the family member of how their loved one is doing on the vent later or off it, or how they're breathing and get some guidance, all in the official hip hop, coump, client and krypted way, and then also make a little bit of a record and say that this is what we discussed, this is how the...

...patient was doing and this is what we decided, and then that fax is over to the nearby fax machine or becomes a note. So there was a need for it, so I just said, okay, let me build this feature too. So so I get to use that. And now the next feature that I am building for that I was talking to the development team today, is about building something to manage these patients, because we have these large number of patients who we are managing, their inflamatory markers, their spiritual rate, the oxygen saturation. So a unique way of displaying the information, a unique way of managing that information so that I can visualize it and take better care of that patient to know when is it time to go to I see you and is it time to involve other people? So all of this I know I can do better through the APP. So if I find it useful, I hope other people do so. So are you using some of this with patients and their caregivers? Now, yes, I have been, but the it's a very hard thing to get update. Doctors or any other person don't easily change their habit. So even though you might have the best product, to get it into active usage requires buying from the institution that you're working with, from the doctors. So yes, we are using with some doctors, but not all the doctors on board. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of the things you know is you just described. You know, a lot of health innovators have the perception that if I build a solution that is better than what is currently available in the market, that that is going to automatically equal success, and research shows that that is not the case. Having a better solution doesn't necessarily mean market success. You could have far inferior solutions be more successful than something that is much superior, and that is frustrating right. That's really fortuntland that out to know that that mean like that. So my solution is so much better in Supedia, but how went into work out? Well, I'm working and I see one week and on the floor of the other week. I kind of hire marketing them on a sales team. So I keep refrecting what I have in a son of unreasonable way. I mean in dumble the expensive bolve. I know that I'm going they beyond what I should be doing, but I kind of have myself. I just get excited and being Florida. Yeah, Yep. And you know, and that's a common challenge that health innovators experience as well, is that, you know, especially for someone like you who is a physician that is in the in the center of the Problem Day in and day out on a regular basis. So you're seeing all of these additional problems that could be solved and that you could solve and you could approve it for yourself and for your colleagues.

And who wouldn't want to add all those features and functionality to make it more robust and helpful? Meanwhile, you know, those those additional developments require time, right, and require money, and and so it could be it can be very financially troubling to pour all of that money in a product that we don't have enough resources to actually bring it to market, to make it commercial. I don't get it. I don't know if I would make money on this team, but I don't know. It's to stop doing. Mean, you know, you keep doing and hoping that they call. But yeah, there are badiers to that, dude. Yeah, yeah, Hey, it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves you need to make to survive and thrive in the new covid economy? I want every health innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivot strategy, which is why I created the covid proof your business pivot kit. The pivot kit is a step by step framework that helps you find your best pivot strategy. It walks you through six categories you me to examine for a three hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses. As you make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to make sure you can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details and opportunities. Learn more at legacy type and DNACOM backslash kit. One of the things that's happening, the silver linings, one of the positive things that's coming out of this global pandemic that we're all facing. One is the solidarity, the Global Solidarity, that you described earlier. The other thing is that, you know, with US having to work remote work, virtual doors being closed to physician offices and, you know, caregivers being, you know, separated from the hospital, all of these different circumstances and changes in market conditions are creating a very ripe environment for greater adoption of these digital tools when you know. So you know if you had folks who were like, I'm really just comfortable with the way that I've always been doing it, and now the way I've always been doing it is not available anymore. So I'm being so now I'm kind of being forced to change. Not only that, making me know would be the theme I myself realized I've been doing on the office sale kid, I was going to office in s heatne fifteen basis and so maybe my seven patients they put a video call systems. I use my APP. So I the office keeper, my off I go to my office like I went yesterday or day...

...before. So. So they had their ten patients listed out and they were timed up as to what time you have to call. I wasn't that strict with the time because we are the patients went to both. I call an hour later night. But Anyway, I call all of them through the video. I give them the test link and they join me on the video and I, with the video, call and discuss this. That, okay, can't go out, you can't exercise to this. that. Take your seapap machine, take care and Tiller. Yes, I call in the replacement and guess what, that is all I do on many of the regular patients. So then when this covid blows off, mean when this is over, I think the patients will say hey, let's do it like we did before and and I will say yeah, that wasn't too bad. I mean I don't know how to play out financially. You know, some doctors are thinking at Oh no, this will detimate our business model. But but maybe not. I think there's so much was stage in the system. Yeah, if, with the current digital tools, we will now be able to this is going to jump start the telling medicine and make medicine more efficient and better, because a lot of times people never needed to come in to see me. They could have shown that looked up from my seapap machine. Is leaking any out on your new mask. Okay, I could have done that on the video anyway. So, yeah, so some of us, I think the insurance of me, that to catch up with the fact and make a reasonable determination as to how to pay doctors for the responsibility of care. Because you know, if you just get five gold dollars to see a patient, then doctor who say don't know, come UN tell you yourself in person, you know, and power that doctor and say that no, you take over his care and take good care. And it doesn't matter if you see him physically around video. Maybe you could see him every week on video the start. BEA does than think once a month physically right. Need call every week will do far more good. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think your spart on and I've been talking a lot about that two different folks just in the last two weeks. You know, the the Medicare changes in the reimbursement for tell a health tell a medicine is opening the doors for physicians like you and your colleagues to be able to utilize these tools. That's been available for a long time, but you know, the financial incentives weren't aligned. R What this is one carry at do you know, what's happening is that the big companies are able to hire doctors and then patients are forced to see doctor out of state or somewhere they don't know. So this importance of having the I am a proponent of telling medicine, but only tell medicine with doctors that you know. So I'm comfortable doing tell medicine with the patients. I have a physical...

...you know. I have one my office patients who I know and you know. Every other visit can be tell medicine or they could be one physical visit for every fourtele medicine with it. But to have tele medicine alone, okay, I workugh, let me get something from that doctor somewhere through tell medicine. But unless you're really following that and knowing that is happening again and again, you would miss out on the fact that there could be a precursor to the cancer you know. So the doctor patient relationship has to be maintained through this telling medicine. So very few APPs out there are doing telling medicine between the doctor WHO's taking care of the patient and his patients. They are all doing telling medicine. The money lies in doing tell medicine in a global way with people who are so I think, like you know, tell a dog and alway the good companies, but the Insurance Company has a vested interest in going through that because then they don't have to pay the local doctors. They can just have a big contract with a big company and then they can hire people to do it in an impersonal way. So we have to do it carefully, though. I I don't know where it will yeah, yeah, well, and you know, you make a really good point. So you know, there's a lot of doors have been flung wide open because we are in a crisis and and so you know, things like we can use zoom, we can use skype legally instead of this Hypo compliant environment for a temporary time frame. Once we get past covid we will we will see those doors that were flung wide open, rightfully so, because we are in a crisis, start to close back, not close all the way, but I think that we'll find a happy medium between that reimbursement, that that safety, that efficacy and putting those protocols in place. And, yeah, and security, like the APP that I've made is already secure and doctors don't want to expose their phone number to every patient and family member. So you want to show it in a very professionally with your office number shows. And then there has to be proofed that you talked. So so some system like what I've made with you can document that you really did make the video call and then you charge for it. Nice better than having just saying that I did the video call on Zoom Right. So there's three ways to go through it. And then the the other aspect. I have to discuss it masing. Thats become very much of an electronic game. With the electronic health records. Have made a repatient into a bundle of codes. So if you are a patient, I won't see you as a patient, I will see you as your twenty. I see codes. You know, the calcium around your Arti is a...

...little extra bundle that increases your complexity and give me a little more money. So all I'm interested is in is finding out all your blemishes and putting them down, and then that is me a global payment, is he? So then all that medicine becomes a very in personal where you make a note which involves all the points that are there, whether important, are an important and then show that your message, managing it and you get paid. So that's what's this medicine has become. That become very comprehensive and it's some good is there. You have your vaccinations, your preventive care, but on some level it is becoming very difficult because when I see patients I'm like that old fashioned doctor, so I look in their eyes, I don't have the Emr in my office. I sort of ask them what the problem is, spend a long time talking about their one problem and then they feel good about it, because the doctors are now push to document so much that they you heard all this step, there's no time, so you have to remove this document to get paid, you know. So somehow, somewhere along the line, American medicine went off the rails where used started getting paid based on documentation and that has to go away. So do you think that that's something that might change during this crisis as well? Is there some type of catalysts, some type of factor that that could help move that change that? Yeah, I suppose, because you're finding that we thought our healthcare was the best, but it is not. Our public health infrastructure is terrible. We were not able to cope with the crisis. We were not able to make enough of the tests available and we are not coordinated. Even now, even though I say there a lot of energy in the system and every hospital and every person is doing a different thing, but we are texting and messaging and it's not a coordinated thing. So if there was a coordinated place, that is, talking to the best centers and finding out the Seattle, you suggest this, Oh, you know New York, these people, they suggest this and they disseminate in a very structured way. I can just look at that and follow but I have to keep my eyes out open to Detroy, to New York, to Seattle, and then mix and match what I'm trying to do. So were not set up properly. I think there's a lot to be improved. So how are you getting in front of your target buyer? How are you making them aware that your solution, even in exists? That's a hard part. I am don't have the time and I have not hired somebody from the marketing side. It's so much easier to just keep putting money on development. I just can't buy. I mean to hire somebody who and pay a lot of...

...money to market that I've not done and in retrospect, I could have done that a year ago or more. So Ye are now. I'll have to do that. But again, developing more is always a next point. So how to get in front of the buyer? I was going to go to the hymns meetings to meet their last month. So that got cancel. So that was thirty fivezero people. I was going to expose myself. You know, the APP in the concept too, and I think the distraction free messaging, the patent that I have is completely valuable, because I realize I will not be able to force every doctor in USA to load my am that's unreasonable. I think that that I should give up on that ring. But the technology that I have made where a doctor doesn't need to get distracted. Well, for nurses saying the old patient was constributed and I gave this something. Is that okay? Or you know? You know all those messages are coming in real time to the doctor, if they can be slowed down into chunks so that we don't get distracted. If you know the big companies like suner or epic or all the people who do the messaging among doctors, if they license this patent, from me. That would be one reve new stream that I can hope for now with the pattern. And then other thought I have is that I could in fact be a person who is in the middle, the keeper of the preference. So if, if I have a patent on distraction free messaging, if there are doctors using company a and company B who don't talk to each other but both their companies want to contract with me to know what times this doctor wants his messages, what time this doctor wants his messages, then I don't have to be involved in the report compliant message itself. They can send to each other, but I can be involved in the timing of the message so that it goes without distraction. So I have to work out their way to be in the middle of the messaging based on the patent. Hmm Yep, that makes sense. I can tell that you love the product. You love the product development piece. Of course I enjoy myself telling but help myself spending an hour and a half talking about how exactly I will make the inflammatory markers and the corona specific questions and how that graph will look like a virus in a way. You know. So like a lot of fun to make that and yeah, you said, yeah, we could do it in two weeks. You know, said, okay, go for it, you know. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, I have a group of developers who are already higher than doing the job. So I just keep making more things. But this one I thought of believing, because if I'm able to get more efficient in taking better care of these patients at this time for this particular disease, that would be actually something other...

...people would want to use, you know. So and then if they see what all features I have in terms of distraction, the messaging and in terms of collaborative messaging, ver if I'm a team of doctors, group a like if I'm a I see you team and there's a cardiology team. So if dr a one talks to doctor be one on Saturday, doctor a two doesn't know what doctor be doing, talk about right. So there's an ablem but if there's a shared messaging that I've made, all that messaging is maintained in the system so that the chance for errors is less. So how none of this has happened, you know, none of the messaging systems and all have what I have made. But but again, it's how to sell, how to get it out? Yes, but you know, I think that research shows that this is a very, very common experience with with innovators who again have a solution that solves a really, really important need right in this I think you know your solution is the way you present it. It's so timely to meet the needs, even during this covid crisis, right in a really powerful and profound way. But if we don't have all the right strategies and all the right tactics to really be able to get to market, then the innovation that really could save lives and improve lives, improve the doctor's lives as they're treating and supporting patients, then it doesn't get into the hands of the people that need him the most. That's why I have this show. If this shoe is kind of pretty partner with me to get this out there, that will be most useful. That's my what that's why I went to the Sind up for the Instru so I took this tiny innovation booth and the whole idea was to get get the idea out there. There's something called distructions, the messaging, there's something called group and you know messaging which works for doctors and and now also I have endured the video box in that so, and this is something that is available on only ice, on iphone this do I keeple didn't download it right now? You can. You can download right now. I keep making you app all the din in fact, apple just there's a new origin released yesterday. So I keep up rereading the Orions, you know. So I keep improving everything that. Yeah. So so what? What are the biggest challenges that you think that you're going to face as we are coming it was we're going through this covid crisis and we're getting on to...

...the other side of it. As a physician as well as a health innovator, well, first we have to get through it. The surgieres have to go away, the health workers have to come out of it UNSYETT. I mean there's a lot of beliefs. I have doctors who are sick on mentalators, you know. So it is a very skey business. So if everybody comes through, I think medicine will change and we will learnt things. We will learn how to coordinate better, we will learn how to, you know, improve the care. So the hospital administration and the doctors are all working together to handle it. So I think things should it should give more of her once once you find it's like soldiers when they have fought the battle together. Your bonding isn't yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I don't I don't think. I don't know exactly how will be different, but I think that things will be very different. We as people will be very different and I think that they'll be a lot a good that comes out of it, just for humanity sake and that solidarity. Yeah, I mean American medicine has a lot of good things that, you know, ation, the the discoveries and everybody doing their own thing and signing things that that you know, the Chinese system could not have done that, because here everyone is doing their own thing and trying all different medicines, and I'm betting that the mortality rate that was so high would be in the next two months or even as been as possible, below because we are learning new thinks that every day of popery, but also they are negative to the American system, which is there is no you know, the iniquity, the public health, the lack of insurance. So I do think the health system is you for a big change and this will precipitate the change even in a bigger way. Things that cannot go on as they have been. Medic yeah, Yep. And this healthcare institution, and you know probably even more so than I do, has been set in its ways for a really, really long time, for at least, Gosh, for at least twelve, fifteen years that I've been a part of it. There's been incremental change, but there's been some progress and some great progress that's been made. And at the same time, especially as the healthcare innovator ecosystem, we've also been banging our head up against the wall for many years to trying to get this alignment of needs and incentives and tools and innovation. And so wouldn't that be the most incredible silver lining is this, out of the chaos of this global pandemic, is that we really were able to change the healthcare its system and a much bigger way...

...than we have in years past. There know you're going to temper of the stead the fire, isn't it? Yes, absolutely so, Cindy. For our listeners who want to get ahold of you as we wrap up here, how can they get in touch with you if they want to get access to your listening dtool. If they want to collaborate with you, if they want to get involved, how do they get ahold of you? Well, you know, I have the website us in Md. I'm still making the bits to the website about the Cobek ferns go on that. But so listening becom is the name of the Web site and listening be the company. And on the APP store the APPs that I have are thisson indeed doctor. That is for doctors and the doctor can load it and they will have to choose their NBI profile and then they get up proved by me and then get expanded into the video. Ability to the video. That's going to be free for everybody, at least in the COVID epademic. Everybody speaking welcome and welcome to load these and be drap and then the other actor is going to listen and be. That is for patients. So any patient in the country that needs every person in the show can load yet they can use it to see all their doctors, who they can search out of the piat profile and then they can put the appointments with their doctors. They can put them. What I will notice they want to about talking to the doctor, about that and then basically force those doctors to put dance together. So all the compaign that patients have that. Oh, my doctors never talk to each other. Guess for the patient, Lord y APP puts all his doctors together and make them talk to each other, talk about real change. Yes, and for set. So yeah, patients can force that. Yeah, well, thank you so much for your time today. I know that you're really busy and so I'm so grateful for the time the conversation that we've had today and again, thank you so much for the work that you're doing. Thank you us. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market and I value your time and your attention. To save time and get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who's been sharing the show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Coiq.

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