Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

How to Build Healthcare Innovations With a Bottom-Up Business Case w/Ed Bukstel

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

There’s technological inertia and cultural inertia in healthcare innovation, and a lot of hard work is required for us to overcome it. What are some of the biggest challenges innovators are experiencing because of this? What would be a powerful pivot or pathway that would enable the successful commercialization of clinical blockchain? How do we break down the silo walls in healthcare?

 

On this episode, Ed Bukstel, CEO at Clinical Blockchain, shares on how he successfully commercialized one of his first innovations, and how he’s working on commercializing his latest healthcare business venture.  

 

3 Things We Learned

How Ed took a bottom-up approach for marketing his innovation

Doctors and clinicians are part of the equation, they should always be involved in the decision making loop. Instead of approaching the labs with his EHR software product, Ed Bukstel approached the people who really had use for his service and that was cardiologists, infectious disease physicians and other clinicians.

 

Why be cautious with strategic partner funding

You’re looking for money but you also have to pay attention to the kind of money you take. Most innovators aim for strategic partner money, but we have to be cautious. It can completely swallow up your culture and the pace of growth of your business.

 

Why healthcare data is so important right now

33 million people suffer from rare diseases, and every bit of medical data they can get is vital to their health. When you have people who are really involved in their healthcare, it becomes critical to supply them with that data and work collaboratively with them. If patients don’t get that, they will move to a provider who can.

 

Even though there’s an explosion of innovation taking place in healthcare, innovators are still  struggling, whether it’s with their reimbursement models, competing for the attention of CIOs or raising capital. A huge part of what drives that struggle is the inertia which has set in from the legacy of the old model. The culture of that inertia will always trump any piece of technology or innovation, so it is critical for us to break down those walls, address the fear of the unknown and usher in a new age.



Guest Bio-


Ed is founder and CEO at Clinical Blockchain. Go to http://www.clinicalblockchain.com for more information.

Welcome to Coiq and first of its kindvideo program about health, innovators earlier doctors and influencers andtheir stories about writing the roller coaster of health care and ovation. I'myour host Dotor Roxy, founder of Legacy, DNA marketing group and it's time toraise our COIQ welcome. DOIQ WIS Dr Roxy Show I'm DrRoxy Your host from Legacy DNA marketing group. Our show is the firstof its kind, video program about health, innevadors, early adopters andinfluencers and their stories about writing the roller coaster of healthcare annovation. So, let's raise our COIQ on today's show. We have EdBucxtoll, who commercialized one of the first CHR systems in Ne Thousand Ninehundred and ninety three and he's going to share with us the lessons that helearned back then, and how he's applying those to commercializing hisnew blockchain venture welcome Ed good to have you on the show he, Dr Rocky,how you doing? Thank you so much. You know for inviting right, so I'm goingto start off with going back in time back in time about twenty five yearsago. Obviously, EHR systems were very uncommon in one thousand. Nine hundredand ninety three so tell us a little bit about what it was like for you tocommercialize that EHR system then well, there were, I mean, you're, ahundred percent right. There was. There was definitely a lot of interest.There were Bot some magazines at ractually managings. That would youwait once a month to get and Tet woul come in the mail and they ere kind ofGrachi, and that was the way you found out what was going on. As far as this,this new area of fors healthcare information systems. There was a PA, Iremember going to Ahyms, and there was only you know likefive Ozand people there we thought that that was a lot of people, bik o back in the day, the issue, theissues Werenand it's actually it was. It was a little bit better becauseright now, sho, the Healthyar landscape is sow, complicated, becanse, there',so many different vendors, so many different legaghe systems so muchinvested. But what was occurring there? It eit reallytook a ut of a cultural shift because most of the systems were built forfinancial purcases exclusively. There was just gapiching credits, theywere basically called systems for att, which men I miss. Imet this charge transpar and at the time very few doctors wereeven involved in mutilizing these systems for politicalpurposes, let alone even being involved in the process. Do it was justbasically, you know, folks that, were you know a data voksh posted that were chief financialofficers at the hospitals. The CIO role...

...was really more of a data processonmanager. But what happened? You know we? Istarted a company and we would go around and talk with different companies that were communicating what a Wei contacted.Laboratory comcovs that are right now, like Ladco, was a clint of my questWhil, the questw used to be a combination of Smith, Caine, laboratoryand Metpat Laboratoris in New Jersey andcurrently, but I had met with folkship mat pant as Wellawe Pine, andthis one. It was very interesting back in the day the cios of those companiesinitially said, and doctors don't care about thisclitical information. They don't want line. titunial results, you know getout of here, we're not going to use this system. So I basically left theofficers I remember like a yeah it was yesterday. I left the office just kind of dejected,thankyou wow. I spent all this time. You know going down a Rabbin Hall andyou know all these people yohave to big copy, say no Bod's going to want thosethat information about laboratory, chash things that nature right, AnoShok. You know at the La at the High Schooltha Thos aShio talking to me whet. If I go out and talk to some of the positions thatare out there- and I Shay I should you know, take a look at this system:here's Gmon, reporting, Lontitunal tracking, you know notification forhealthmay maintenance reminders things of that nature. You know, wouldn't youlike to have this in your office and sure enough? I met with some doctors.HAV said Yeah. We definitely want to have this in our office. You Know Howdo we do it? So I thought to myself: Ju t tell them to contact the laboratoryand- and I said well, you know we can interface with any of the laboratoriesyou're working with you just have to tell them now the dynamic that you haveto understand all always comes down to a financial dynamic, because nicathesedoctors were referring test to these laboratories. That would be worth ahundred thousand dollars a month of gravenue to the laborators. So when, ifa doctor said you know, look I want you to interface with edd system. Oh somen,the Laboratori call me pack and said Hen. We understand you met with DrSmith or R Jones. We now want to work with you and A and those Shios. It saidno doctors interested end up, calling me back in their offices kind of saying,okay. I remember I kicked you out before, but it looks like some Bigacathere, representn millions of dollars in revenue actually want to work withor work with your system Solf. How do we go ahead? An airface sowof course. Isaid whalt's going to cost you, of course, so just went up big time. You had a situation now that it assumedthat people want data fuck or whatever reason that date is still being withhelp, and I see the mentality you know and questions right now, Rinsac theidea of having a physicion involved in...

...the process of design. The questionthat comes up, which is very much like the question twenty five years ago, bura that being, as is how do we bring the patient involved in the design becauseit's their data and we got to get theyr dated to them? Weve got to give thembetter control or better access, I'm not saying ownership, because that getsinto a whole set of legal issues that you know nobody wants to deal with. Itthink I don't think ownership is really that much of it. It's not a decided issue, because youknow patiens, it's got. You can't own a hundred percent of your dat. They, even if you want to it, challenge lisebut O. NO patients are not investing in as prayn machines or analyzers, andthings of that nature their show. So he patient should have access to theirdata as opposed to orwnership yeah. Yeap, so let me ask you a question thatwas a pretty unique strategy that you were talking about, going directly tothe end user and creating demand up the chain since the target audience youknow, wasn't wasn't getting it or didn't believe that there was anopportunity there. So so let me kind of in that same vein. How did you getinvestors to believe in what you were doing to raise the capital that youneeded to commercialize your EHR system back then? If because it was sorevolutionary yeah, actually it was. It was kind of one of those strategy. Iguess, if you can't be feed them join them. So one of the laboratoriesinvested. Two million dollar mitpline invested two million dollars in mycompany, because we were very strategic, ING thebout. They would actually go todoctors. OFFICAR say I'm using this docker charg system that ED design andGoe and and essentially they would use it as a shelling tool and the doctorswould say wow we, you know this Lante tunal results, okay, we'll switch frommatpath or Mao, or the local hospital and we'll refare more of our business. To sothete was, it was ONC got a financial, dynamic, Wii a clinical chain. You know a change in viewpoint from the financialto the clinical okay. So then it sounds like Smith, Klin really understood whatyou were trying to accomplish, and it was a very strategic investor, not justanybody throwing money. Your Way with somebody who is actually going to beable to drive adoption that and what O my other plients was early. One UnitedHealth Group was one of the big innovators in information systems, even back in thein the day as for as connecting their providers, and they were allso a plyintof mine as well a pretty significant pline. I mean at one point on. I thinkwe had close to eighttousand installations from main to Malley andand some outside of the US, as well as a number of hospitals. Al Sow Y in in the main demally type of flitfrint,so so you've talked about really two...

...unique strategies. I think thatprobably helped you, you know reach market success. Arethere any other decisions that you made around that commercialization processthat you think had such a big impact on you n, an your G, your success, I thinka a fundamental aspect of any of the strategies. You know then- and I think,even today and today, once you gon to Ichthethe Lasur Focus Eis, its more onthe patient and how to get the patient involved with process, but it reallywas a new dynamic to bring positions into the process and when doctorstarted telling Information System people we want this, you know it really. You really have tofocus on who your customer is and the customer in this case what was notnecessarily to laboratores and the hospitals. They were lighting. Thechash, okay, there's no plane, but that wasn't the kind of go to marketstrategan go to Morta trit was to now go downstream to the ultimate end users,which were at this point the individual position offices that wefer business,the laboratories in the hoschol. So there was a o K, there's definitely apushpoll dynamic. Sometimes the doctors would ask for special customize teportsat the back. In the day that that laboratories would send entire computer systems as quite astrategy and then all that an any kickback stuff chicked in you know, ofcourse you know the stark lows: You know try to kind of stop that so someof the computer systems, what would be done? They would bring them in an put them in a position,office and bloc, all functionality, the computer except work being able to doone item which was utilize. Our system and seeme laborator results online m.So what were some of the the obstacles that you had to overcome? OSAB stbillion yeah, it's like anybusiness. You know you have the same obstacles you have today you have percestion, youhave innertia, you have people o o worrid about the not anvented to hear shendrome people saying, Oh, my God, it's new! Therefore we mustfear it. You know soon watchd it I mean. I don't know how many times people said.Why do you need a personal computer? You know why do you need to no onewants to put anything on the Internet. LOTPUTTING lab results on the Internet.You know it's not! It's too, it's not cure enough. ITD Stu, it tate a showevery single time. You know, and then peoplee saying you know thatas attack outhere's still healthy organizations today that have not evenadopted the cloud. So you know I fas its obstacles that ther they're absolutely out there. Youknow whether it's back in the day or today. It's you know the perceptionissue, the culture like...

...all points in time. You know, and itdoesn't matter how wisbangand amazing, the technologist culture, matrontaltechnicology every single time. You know- and that's it- you don't havesomething that make things a little bit better for the people that are going touse that system for Mak, even there's a peceived use of the Systeo, then youmay as well just find another business because you're going to die a very oldpropy person and also pryb pretty poor too. I think that's a great phrase. Culture,trumps technology every time, so so kind of just continuing on downthis path. What what advice would you have for other health, innovators thatare in the trenches right now that are facing this perception? An A nertiaissue? I think I mean it: I'v really been immorching myself on tthe blockchange side. You really have to think and understand, and your ucecases- and you know the and how what the friction points are you technologyfor the Shak Technology is not going to make it sust in a situation better. Youknow a lot of other considerations that showup and you K O. We need to be cognizent of those considerations. omean it's a you really need to study the market.You need to see how people are using the systems. I would say also there's always this people want to add futures andcustomizations and capabilities, and you know what o may not need allthat future creep. When you create a package, it might be as simple as youknow, just chaking an image and extracting data and and not worryingabout you know a whole bunch of other. You know phenomenal features, e e,think about it. We use Microsoft word most of the time, there's like aCillion capabilitys there that we really never use but wee so who's able to build thatJillian capabilities into the prodcause. The Gad a lot of money to do it. YouKnow Heyprhi, Cooki Ha small company with Cap Don all those you kow awesomefeatures n that focus or the ones that makes sense and go forward, and youdon't do that. I I said you betterbe, Ro, Jo Yeah, that's so true, ed that you knowa lot of the innovators and entrepreneurs that we speak to arereally talking about that same thing. Sometimes I see that they overdevelopthe product so much, but they don't even have any money left to actually goto market and so that just can savatage their success right there. We must betalking about o talking to some of the same people because yeah it can become a wastelandout and thenthen people just develop things that just don't make sense. You know the we talked a little bit about. You knowblockchange, some of the what's occurring right now, with texcitement to height. You know, I think I think people are finally getting tothe Valley of despair. You know because the Heipe was really IG. You've gotninety five percent of o the hundred...

...and forty plus healthcare related icosthat you know say that Youse blockching are often by ninety three percent ormore as far as their evaluations from their ICO sow yo the Boen. You know thebottom line, learning thing we get literally that's a hundred and fortytentat, just incredible, not of Group of companies that the all thought they had emen eventhought they had great ideas but farnamentally. They were trying totokenize healthcare, and I think one of the things people need to realize isyou know that type of script has been tried many many times, and it's faile.You can't token on shop care. If a patient has to pay a bill for FIFTEHUNDREO medical bill, they're no going to care whether or not they get a tokenthat allows them to buy some night year or you know, get Amazon dischaunt fortwenty five bucks e Pece Basion, a fifteen hundreddollar ot, two thousandfive housand dollar bill. I mean just it just actuolally bottems of mind howSomman smart people can come on a some really delusional business cases yeah. Absolutely so you've kind of we bothhave kind of tossed around the the phrase of the term blockchain, quite abit, and so F R for those of our listeners that don't really understandblock chain or knew what that means. If help us explain that and it's mostsimplest form. What is blockchain blockchain is a is a a technology that that, because of the nature of itsdecentralization and because of the architecture, a s to creating what arecalled blocks, they're linked together and that are also cryptographicallysecure. It is a mechanism that that allow trust to be built and thattrust component is actually built. Bi Brotu of a consensust mechanism thatallows decentalized groups to fallray that something may be true,show the e the issues and without gettinginto Ou k, ow the weed on the the technology aspect, because you knowthat's that is really not necessarily for the average person, the Wandav people that are going toactually interact with the technology right, really not as important. I mean, for instance,when we're talking right now we're on this Onthi Duscrussion, I'm not sittingthere saying wow. You know this is through a TCPI P connection and youknow: We've got a seture server and and and and here's this is the Ip proocolthat we're using or whatever the case. Maybe we don't share because there's noit works...

...watching is tring of that will be atthat shame level. In fact, you know the best blotchain applications andcapabilities that will be out. There will be the ones at probably whereusers have no idea. Tho Block changes been utilized, they'll just realize youknow this information seems a heck of a lot more precise than what it used tobe. I mean I don't know if you remember, you know when they had differentbrowsers out there and search engines, and you get all these ridiculous.Stetch results. Yeah before you had ther stuff, I mean hat, you would doshearches and the first things that would come up would be. You know,advertisements you know porn sites, all kinds of things it was. It was almostnunusuaal. Seach was almost unusuable until Poogle came up with you knowtheir algorithms. Now I relate that to blotching we're goingto find out. I believe you know that there's some features andfunctions with blockchain that you know that no one has really thought aboutyet ora actually implemented yet and or experiences. I think, for the most part,are going to be much higher from the usual lab. oning OI' used the example before you know Steve Jobs when he created the eypone.He had no idea that Uger rbnb were going to be created. He wasn't thinkingabout them. He was thinking about. You know a thevice that W, U is, you know,could mormad platform for other functions andcapabilities which you know. Obviously those business cases came to came, cameto Forton and continue to, and today we're in the same type of situation,we're still looking for the business cases that are going to Otell you K, Oblockchain and and and the user experience follit. So so ED. Whatis the you know? The number one or the most important friction point that youknow you is the founder and leader at clinical blockchain is what is it thatyou're solving that most important friction point er problem, there's a cu, there's a couple o them.I the most impornt, the most important, there's the I would say, O the Bwell,let's I'm Gon, to take one stef back with the most important fricting pointthat I'm 'm dealing with today, whether it's in the like shiences and formerspace or helping enhance patient experience isthe the situation of the digitate digitalization of records. The factthat the fat missione- Yes, the fact machine is still responsible for aboutseventy five percent. Ol Healthcare Communications, no outside of hospitalshetting, an you know in the andulatod studing, and that's Ha fact that you bottems the mine and the Abiiin onboard, know that colliperation as well as the situation that...

...what factor tiwe have to writ. That'sthe truth, and we can't avoid that situation. So let's go ahead and youknow take that and now extract out of that, whatever we can, even if it'srecognizing hey that fass machines, areon Ram, let's go ahead and get thatinformation as Wan PDS, but all Awinde into at least an identity, and that identityis, is one of the items that we also addressed with incotof the blockchit so so, andhelp us understand kind of just going a little bit more personal and deeperhere in into like the psychology of an entrepreneur right. So there's all ofthe strategies, tactics associated with the commercialization process that arelike really tangible right, the launch stuff, the marketing messaging brandingall that stuff, that you know we kind of know, but there's also a major factor. Youknow the mindset of the entrepreneur so kind of help us understand either whatthat was like for you when you are commercializing the EHR system, onethousand nine hundred and ninety three or you know the venture that you're doingright now with clinical blockchain. How are you you know? Every entrepreneur faceschallenges, obstacles nos door shut? How are you overcoming that? I even have monitors thrown out of fourstory windows going bight through the Bok Hi Oday hes. Let you can't reallybreak a window when, when you get mad and thlow it out, but ther literallywas I remember. Our landlord came up and Shaid. Oh my gosh, you know theythought there was a break in and then I think the landlord realized that allthe glass was out. You know like it's unlise you're goingto be frustrated,can GOINTA her know a lot. Okay, it's going to it's going to cause youpossibly to you know just question everything that you believe in and sooften there's something that you know. Lihes your fire and you know you got tagot ta stay passionate. You know. Sometimes it may be hard to do, but it you believe in it and en de find I tivashop with the white people that you know know what t you know know whatthey're talking about and and you got to respect opinions about it. fankly got torespect opinions of others. You know, even even if sometimes you you want tosay right off the Bak. You know I really Stortu auter respect youropinion is tos ak sense, but you know what you start to respect it, becauseyou, a nugget that comes out it's like wow. I did not expect you know t that Ombreaking type of you know alert to come out of you, but ad it ha and it just and, and you have Hav to wake up everyday. You know somedayss a little bit of Tougor Youe, like O Jeez. I got to dothis again...

...and you you Hav, put yourself out there. I've gone to these. You know I make apoint. You go to these meetups in Philadelphia, whether they doringblockchain meet up or there's a Philly blockchain technology and builling otthat show just involved in working to plan some events for Phillytat week and Noweven Yeah. Yesterday I want to a meet up and they were they were doing. Adegentalization of the creation of torch Andand in a in a game. Applie formatand ther were representing this information on a brocgk chain, acompany colped callet and youave some real smart people. Talking about youknow. How are we going to go ahead and trade andand share and work together in a intadidual realm, and they had this andthis camification portion to it, which is which I just thought was absolutelybrilliant, Batacand, one of the guys w onfthe guys developers with Yo Ow talkg with Themyou, can had buzz Ligktyour earr rings on, but Youo absolutely creative, and you know I got methinking. How could so a technology do like that in that type of GAMimpication for that kypd of thought process, potentially healt in health care and no there's a the there's deferine areas? Ithink the future is, you know, incorporating some type of brock chainin some type of Gamnition stheme of into patient intrrationalsprovider interactions and interactions, amongst other people that you don'teven think about right now m. So earlier you were talking about theinertia in the culture of healthcare and it's you know, it's obvious thatyou know healthcare moves slower than most other industries, and you alsotalked about how it's really oversaturated with an explosion ofinnovation. So anybody that's part of the target market. You know there havepeople calling them texting, knocking on the doors. You know saeing my wigitsgoing to change your life right. So how are you, what are whet are some of thestrategies that you have to be able to rise above the noise and get theattention of your target audience. Yeah. Then your wife, the noise level, is atyou know a free fish proportions right now and trying to get above. The noise isimportant, but I even toug even that knowg you got to recognize even in audience, Andi'm referring toBlockchain, specifically, for instance, what are what are the motivations? Whywould a information systems officer a CIO at a hospital one blockchain intheir institution? FORSO? All I don't think, there's a business model. Evenyou know Li that can be created for o Shios to Shay Yeah. You know what go tothe board and Shay. We want to go ahead...

...and build this infrastructure and Watis built out. All of our patients can share all their information with oureditors. You know any fore directoris going to basially say you want to dowhat you mant spend our money. Toand and IUL say there are some forwardthinking group out there that may be willing to take that type of Rish to go forward. You know, I think, of Jafparson House system herein Philadelphia, Therre Barry a tune to Trin, making making the community andthe jip codes around Philadelphia much healthier. Even Imeans you know Sacrificen a little bit of you know Business OpportunityFutinthat, you know on of the motivations may be we chan't go in andit makes me honest, Lytionin ta, wor a she sow these companies at icos thatyou know are and people there talking to me saying we were to launch anapplication, we're going to sell to positions and they don't realize it.Oroter prosections killed themselves last year and we he nomber onestretseres saying as to why they kill themselves, was that they had to playwith information system so o ow depression, amonst, healthcareproviders and plenitions. Is it etic proportions need Soer ther a say? I gotthis new thing: Wes Binga one wash instance, O te be saying just get backOwt of my office, because oow dealreay stressd out the lest thing someonewants to hear about is another type of product. That's going to know shave theday. Now one of the things that you mentioned, which is the keep going andit comes back round- is okay, but may he can help solve a frictian point thatthese fols have to deal with and R helping to smooth the WORKQLO. Withyou know the fact machine intigration were just being able to help a patientcollectovr records for to a single identity instead of having records allover the place that way help, and if you can go into the physician's officeand say you know instead, you say got. I have all of my information here whuldyou like to go ahead and take a look at that. You know it's a situation whereyou know it looks like the patient already wentahead and did all that Ome were all that Ou knowgathering in their data atd. Allwe did, you know, fromclitical bockcanes perspective is to help themconnect that information and we're not going in and saying o the doctors. Youknow we're going to we're going to change your lives, Af fackuses for thebetter because Yo frankly, that's not that th ficton point right now are theinformation systems righ doctors ha to dealit and of courseally the inertia isthere. You know I shaid with you know before I sheid it again. You know youBOT. These affects and sturners and groups yout there and you now someone a on told me that Younow Botfthe reasons why God was creat able to Crethe world an seven days or six dayswas because he was working from a blank...

...slave. He didn't have any legasysystems that he had to deal with, or she had to deal with. My daughters would definitely correctme on the sheet thing: Satdy Gat got it. God is a woman Isa.Yes, she is. The bottom line is that we have to. Youknow recognize that we do have all that noise that we have to deal with andthat noise ti a noes, Creaton Bui, really ridiculous circumstances. But, like I said when you, when you wake up in themorning, you go out there and make sure you're passionate about what you'redoing and you know, put yourshef out there yeah your Ueno worries no worriesat all. So so you know we're kind of talking about these two paths thatyou've taken where you've you know: commercialized the EHR ste MOnethousand, nine hundred and ninety three now you're out going to marketfor the clinical blockchain venture. You know: What's one thing that maybeyou've done in the past that you're doing different in this new, you knowgo to market strategy for Clinical Blockchain, I'm osure. I think I've opened up a lotmore. I said to my investors I said: Look wehave you know things are open shource you have to share Ho you in teside. Youliterally have to have as part of a business case. You know how you'regoing to go ahead and create a community. Now, if you go ahead andyou're not goin to create a community, if you just say, look I'm going to go ahead and buildthis product, and I wantd you everybody to work with it. You have to go aheadand get a little bit and when say Gai you Kno it. It might be making surethat certain shorts code is available and get up or you know, there's you know, th you're,helping develop and share show. I think I think people are much more open aboutintellectual property. When Nand you now we're not not asurly like theabsolute secrets and technology that you're planning on working with, butyou know Youa you're te Abill to open up, and you know in our connected worldand Ow stite with you know: India, Romania, stonior wherever and connect you don't know all the people that areout there, that they want to help you if you go ahead and provide just alittle bit of you, help that makes that engagement a little biteasier to go with show, I think I'. You know, I've definitely opened up with it.You know, and in the way I look at thingsthatlittl bit less critical about what other people are doing. I mean HawiAtiha, you know a meeting with people making thorch and you know in ant imputting on a Blotchin, and I started in as they're making thetools and creating the colors with...

...different a three hundre sicky degree. You I'm thinking about the quir icyoudegree yea with ha patient and how you could try and match himis interactionsand create just like they were trying to create the perfect tool. I'mthinking about creating the perfect health experience sow those things yeand mat or the the image that that they were creating.was you know, looke like a new interface? Possibly it's just you knowyou have to be open and question just about everything, you're thinking about Andand, even if it hurts so. The last question that I have foryou ad before we wrap up this part of the interview and go ahead and open upto the QNA session is. What do you think is the biggestdriver of success when commercializing a health care novation today the biggest driver or influence for an entrepreneur or for a founderinnovator like yourself? What do you think the biggest driver is for success? T'syou know this. Is this? Is OldSchool but's? You know Itus got you got Ta Stol, O ut, if you and and Don' Sho and you gotta yougotshot. Even you know at that that event you got to show up at locations. You'vegot to go ahead and show up on a digital realm as well. You've gotto be. You know: I've. I've Got Bouto linint about twenty five OuzandQots Ot, you know follow me and I participate in tweet shatch with within different communities. Theres, that's that'sit. I mean Youe Wano. Ifyou don't show up youare guarantee, there's one thing: you're guaranteedone hundred percent time, your Cho on percent of the time moves Dan. You knowand that's and that's it and after that yeah. Hopefully it's something that it's going to makeyou money, but it's you know you want to in Thisi environment you want to.You want to help people out and be a little bit more open to Tobat Quat, just all right. We thankyou EAD. So we're just going to pause right here if you want to find out moreabout clinical bok chain or watch more episodes of our show head to our videoshow page at Dr Roxycom, and of course, if you would like to tell us your story,go to the Myb, be my guest page on the DTR Roxy Website and apply we'd love tohear about your health carnovation experience, and thank so much forwatching the show you can subscribe to our program for o Youtu Channel at Coiqwith Dr Roxey until next time. Let's raise our COIQ. What's the difference between launchingand commercializing a health care, Novation, many people will watch a newproduct. Few will commercialize it to learn the difference between launchand commercialization and to watch past...

...episodes of the show head to our videoshow page at Dr Roxycom. Thank so much for watching and listening to the showyou can subscribe to the latest episodes on your favorite podcast, APPlike apple podcasts and spotify, or subscribe to the video episodes on ourYoutube Channel, no matter the platform just search Coyq with Dr Roxy untilnext time. LET'S RAISE OUR COIQ.

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