Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

How Self-Insured Employers & Benefits Brokers Might Be the Most Fertile Ground for Innovation in Healthcare w/Dave Chase

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

One of the side effects of a broken healthcare system is that there isn't enough fertile ground for innovation. How can innovators choose the most viable business models and go-to-market strategies? Where can we optimize and accelerate within the system in order to create growth? How can we rise above all the noise in the market?

On this episode, healthcare entrepreneur, influencer, and Health Rosetta co-founder, Dave Chase shares how to solve the key issues that hinder successful commercialization. 

 

3 Things We Learned 

The healthcare system can lead innovations to the zombie graveyard.

The optics of landing a big health system seems like the golden ring, but it too often ends up being a boat anchor for most innovators. Everything that encompasses the essence of a health system is the polar opposite of what it takes to successfully bring an innovation to market. Proof of this is a zombie graveyard littered with promising healthcare innovations that failed to materialize. Why? One reason is that we have to be incredibly smart about picking our customers.

 

Benefits brokers are an overlooked linchpin to solving healthcare.

The relationship between employers and benefits brokers is the tip of the spear when solving problems in healthcare. Benefits brokers are the single most underestimated role in healthcare and the economy. For better or for worse, they make the decisions that most companies defer to and that’s what drives the state of healthcare. 

 

Think beyond your own innovation.

Don’t solely focus on promoting your own products. One of the best ways to accelerate the adoption of your innovation and create a highly defensible market position is to create a new product category and establish a leadership position in it. We should seek to be the voice in our sphere of influence for the category. Be a thought leader. By taking this approach, great outcomes will inevitably come your way. 

 

 

Welcome to Coiq and first of itskind video program about health innovators, early adoptors and influencers and their stories aboutwriting the roller coaster of healthcare innovation. I'm your host, Dr Roxy,founder of Legacy DNA marketing group, and it's time to raise our COIQ.Welcome back to the show coiq listeners. On today's episode, I am reallyexcited to speak with Dave Chase. He is our guest today. He isknown as one of the most influential people in digital health and he is aauthor, advocate and Bester entrepreneur and he is transforming healthcare. So welcome tothe show, Dave. Thanks so much for having me on. Looking forwardto the chat. Excellent. So you know, before we get started,there's a lot of people out there that know who you are, but there'sprobably some people in our audience who don't. So let's start off maybe by youjust telling a little bit about your background and what you do. Okay, sure, yeah, my background. I started my career and consulting withwork in dozens of hospitals and basically helping them get as big a bill outas paid as fast as possible. I was I'm kind of doing some ofmy penance now for them. And and then I went and started Microsoft healthcarepartner ecosystem. So you think of Microsoft, kind of makes lego blocks other people'sassemble those into solutions. And then I detoured away from healthcare for adozen years and was in digital media and whatnot, and then came back abouta decade ago, and I sort of joke I, like you know itMiss Essentially a technology entrepreneur historically, and you always look. Any entrepreneur looksfor a market gap. Yes, I went looking for a market gap andwhat I found was the greatest heist in American history and I couldn't unsee it. And so that company through that process I learned a lot more and I'mreally as some people call systems entrepreneur. I think in terms of industry,ecosystems and and have had the fortune to do a couple of those big industryshifts. And that really put me on this mission because I essentially been onthis scavenger up for the last decade. WHO's cracked the coat on healthcare?Everybody knows it's broken, but for most people it's indecipherable as to how tomake sense of it. And I found these people would crack the code andand the this metaphor came to mind of the Rosetta stone, because that helpeddecode the formally indecipherable Egyptian hieroglyphics, and these people had cracked the code.Thus the Health Rosetta, which is this blueprint that it wasn't me crawl,you know, climbing up to the top top of some mountain and, youknow, crossing my legs and dreaming stuff up. This is stuff. Ithad been, amazingly, most people don't...

...know about it, and just remarkablethings, things that happened. So it was this dichotomy between this kind ofdystopian reality that we're in today. We're we're bankrupting families and country and producingmediocre outcomes, while also creating record levels of burnout and even suicide amongst ourclinicians. On the other hand, these people would crack the code. WasUtopia by comparisons, I kind of joke, but just a marketing problem, right. Everybody they knew about this system. That's not utopia, it's reality.They write mainstream yet so my mission is to really just mainstream that concept, and so we're doing we've started with the employer arena and we can talkmore about that, but that's basically our mission is to you know, Ithink of if a health plan was a person, you'd want it to beyour mother, right, a great mother. You know, they look out foryou, they keep you healthy, they help bringing back to Health Ay. You know, when some idea sounds like it might be a good idea, it's really not. You know, they'll keep you out of harm's way. So I that's kind of the the sort of metaphor I think about interms of a great health plan. I don't think I've ever heard that before. That's interesting. Yeah, I think. I think I came up with it, but who knows? Stuff and them you just all those funny Iwas talking to gut a couple days ago. It was an investor and we're talkingabout he sort of set it in so many words. I was like, wow, that's interesting. Somebody else would say that, so I'm suresomebody else try. Yeah, that's great. I love the work that you're doing, you know. So everything on this show is really about, youknow, US coming together, sharing stories, sharing some of the challenges in BestPractices to kind of move the needle in an industry. That's that's verycomplex, very difficult, but to help health innovators be more successful in theircommercialization of innovations. So, you know, my you and I have had someconversation about this phenomenon of the Zombie graveyard. So let's just jump rightinto it and and so, you know, let's talk. You know, what'syour perspective of the Zombie Graveyard? And why do you think some healthinnovators succeed and why some fail? Yeah, I mean it's really difficult because there'sa lot of people's you know, sort of pushing you a particularly investors, and sort of the optics of landing the big health system is is supposedto be the Golden Ring, when I think it's it ends up being aboat anchor for most of these organizations. And that is, you know,really almost everything. That is the essence of what a large health system isabout. Is it the polar opposite of...

...what it takes to bring innovation tomarket. And so, you know, a good rule of th I think, is, you know, don't pursue a customer that's larger than your installbase. And unfortunately most of the startups are pursuing that. And you know, to be maybe kind of blunt, a lot of the innovation is tryingto either pay the cow path or put lipstick on a pig, or sayinghere's the big challenge. There are actually organizations who are fully invested in thenew model, and I think what a lot of people are doing is tryingto sell, you know, the equivalent of selling, you know, newcommerce tools into sears and Kmart in the late s when, of course theywould have been better off working with Amazon, right or some other ECOMMERCE innovator.And there are the equivalents of the Amazons and, you know, wayfarersor whatever out there. The challenges, and that's kind of what we tryto do at some level, is kind of do this market, you knowmaking or matchmaking between those, and so that's, you know, you avoidbeing a Zombie number one by picking your customers. That sounds kind of crazybecause you're just trying to survive. Yeah, and I've been there, but that, you picking your customers will be the life or death decision for yourbusiness. As my belief, and and I believe if some you know,large organization is coming and knocking on which they did, because I had afair amount of visibility. I think the burden of proof is on them ofhow, you know, demonstrate how you have worked with a very small organizationand put this through, had success and reached it to the old organization.I know some successful, successful companies, one of which was acquired by fitthat they had tons of peer reviewed studies and things they've done with health systemsthat prove their approach worked and it never went to scale on any of thosehell systems because, at the end of the day, though, what theywere doing was going to reduce revenue for that hell system while helping patients gethealthier. HMM. So that's the type of thing you have to be verydiscipline on who you choose as your customers and I think most people are justin survival mode and just trying to get oh, any customer, and believeme, I've made that mistake. So I'm just trying to help other peopleavoid that mistake. Yeah, absolutely, so, so true. You know, they're just so, so desperate for cash flow or so desperate for thebig story right of the big flagship that they can kind of hang over theirbrand. So tell me a little bit more about this match making. Yeah, I mean the way we've decided to...

...go about doing it is really justgo up stream, because I looked at all the dysfunction and healthcare, ofwhich there's many, many areas of dysfunction, always came back to the way wepurchase healthcare at the core is radically broken and until we change that,none of the downstream changes make a difference. And so where we're focused in onis the employer. That's the tip of the spear. It's half ofthe revenue of the industry. It's probably three quarters of industry profits. NoAct of Congress has required. As soon as the employer has the mindset shiftthat. No, fixing healthcare isn't like solving Middle East piece with I thinka lot of them look at it that way. Like it. They likethat fix too, but it seems hopeless and out of their control. Yeah, none, it's actually absolutely in control. Where a seven person company, we'redoing it. I've seen, you know, companies over Tenzero, youknow, employees do it. And so we're doing is match making the employeesemployers, I should say, through we've kind of been, you know,building demands, if you think of supplying the man through the book and mediathat I do. These people go okay, enough, like we got to dosomething, and then we match them up with accredited benefits consultants. Ibelieve that benefits can sold and benefits brokers are the single most underestimated role inthe entire healthcare industry probably, by extension, the US economy, for better forworse. Sadly it's been mostly for worse. They make the decisions thathave that most companies defer to their decisionmaking and that is what has led totwenty years of wage stagnation decline for the working in middle class. And sowhat's happening there, and we're seeking to accelerate, is remember stockbrokers. Youknow, they went the way the Dodo bird. The smart ones reinvented themselvesas financial and wealth advisors right that's where they had more aligned interests. Andso these great benefits advisors, they're frankly underpaid their worth their weight in gold. They're the ones who, frankly, we model the program after. They'rethe ones who have shown over several years, even a couple decades, how todo this. And so then we do this matchmaking and it's kind ofweird that we have this industry, this trillions of dollars that are spent andthere's no objective third party mark of quality, whether it's for a benefits consultant orwhere that's for a health plan, even a healthcare provider organization. Imean have these bogus like you know, we're the best hospitals or whatever.That's largely just a marketing charade. Yeah, and so we say, okay,we're going to represent the interests of the play, the citizen, themember and identify these folks who, unfortunate...

...the way the industry was set upfor benefits brokers, they're pitching themselves as buyers agents and getting paid like sellersagents. Or put it another way, if I was to sue you andalso pay for your attorney, that would be ridiculous, but that's how thehealthcare industry is work. So the folks we accredit, they at a minimumthey disclose all their fees. In we found up to seventeen undisclosed revenue streams. Better yet, they're all only paid directly by the employer or the Unionor whoever's the purchaser. MMM. So how how is that making a difference? Yep, Yep, some of those stories. Yeah, I mean it'samazing what happens. We had really been doing this in earnest, if kindof trying to accelerate what was already happening. It's not like we came up withall this stuff, but what we see. Almost every day I getanother story of this city, this manufacture, this retailer. They drop their spendingthirty percent, fifty percent. How the heck did they do that andwhat's the impact of that? Well, how did they do that? It'spretty simple. Unit cost. We're paying too much on a a cost basisfor things like imaging and surgeries, basically medical care, and we're paying toomuch on a unit cost basis for medication. You get rid of what we callpricing failure. Where there's pricing failures is when there's no correlation between whatyou pay in the quality you get. Right, yeah, when you getrid of that and you remind people, Gosh, healthcare walks have known forat least a decade that a third to a half of all healthcare spending iswaste. Price Water, House Coopers Institute of Medicine. There's no surprise there. It's probably only up since they they did that. And the other thingthat a lot of people aren't recognizing as the value creators and healthcare, theclinicians, the nurses, the doctors, the pharmacists. They're getting less thantwenty five cents of every dollar. And so once you remove, frankly,price gauging and, in some cases over treatment, then you can have thatimpact and the real impact. Sure it's great for the company to have spendless money, but virtually every company says, you know what, we already committedthose dollars to our employees and so we're not going to put that toour bottom line. We're going to put that back to our employees. Andwe've seen everything from companies paying for college educations, much bigger dollars in theprofit sharing pool just, you know,...

...getting rid of having premium holidays ifpeople have premiums for their employees. You know couple great examples recently they camein. One was a it was a company that owns convenience stores and thata hourly worker and she had some condition that would put her on an expensivemedication and once they change their drug or caurement, the cost went down somuch the employer said, hey, we don't want to have cost sharing forthat, we just want them to be well and for that working class individual, what that meant was for the first time since she'd had kids, shewas able to take them on vacation. Wow. Yeah, so that's atype of thing. Or the forklift driver who's able to retire with a sevenfigure retirement payout because in their case it was an employee stock owned company,so that they reduce their spending from eight million to three and a half millionwhile they improve the benefits for the employees. That all went to the bottom lineincrease the value of that company. So the retirement payout went dramatically upfor a guy who topped out at forty FIVEZERO dollars a year. So that'sthe thing that really excites us is, you know, these people who areable to have a college education or able to take a vacation or have aretirement, when most people, frankly, the way I look at it isour healthcare system has shoved people down Masle's Higher Arkey to where there and survivalmode. And, if you don't Mind Tho was this moment for me thatwas really kind of this Aha moment where I woke up March ninth, twothousand and sixteen, look at the news, the news from the Michigan Primary forthe presidential campaign. Bernie and trump won, and I was like,Huh, that is not normal, right, what is going on here? Andyou start to hear about populism and a google. Exactly is populism?When does populism rise? Populism rises when there's economic depression. Like, whatexactly is economic depression? Well, one of the definitions is two or moreyears of wage stagnation and decline. By that definition, over half of theworkforce is in a twenty yearlong economic depression, overwhelmingly, at least ninety five percent, created by healthcare. Is Employers are spending a lot more money.It's just all all here. And so we think of an economic depression thatis more than twice as long as the Great Depression, then you have toask yourself, how could the Bernie trump phenomenon not happen? And we haveour healthcare system to thank for that. HMM. So I love the storiesthat you're telling in the real human impact and you know, we've got toget more of those stories out. Or just really encouraged all of us asan industry that change is happening and it's...

...possible. Seems like you know thethe eight hundred pound gorilla and the room and you know it. Like youhad said before, you know, we all know that it's dysfunctional and we'reall moving to make change and sometimes it can be really discouraging because you justthink that you know, it's not happen or it's not happening fast enough.So these stories are just really great. How does this match making in impactor influence a health innovator? Yeah, they need to do differently in orderto be a part of this ecosystem that you've created for real change. Yeah, I mean this was part of, you know, my last health techstartup. I was just frustrated, like why, you know, isn't theremore fertile ground for startups? I mean, I actually one of the reasons afterI left Microsoft sixteen years ago, people like, Oh, you're goingto do a healthcare startups like no, healthcare is where startups go to die, right right here. But I, like businesses, it survived. Yep, and that's where I sort of got at the root cause issue of that. And so I think for the innovators, obviously it depends on what area you'rein right in terms of you can you know, there's services innovation.I think a lot of the most interesting thing happening is healthcare services innovation,from primary care, physical therapy, behavioral, hell Al. There's a number ofthings that are really exciting there. And then it's the things around it, certainly where we're particularly focusing. I wasn't health benefits guy. I meanI'd receive benefits, you know, as a CEBEO. Yeah, but Ididn't really know about health benefits, and so there's a lot of activity aroundthat and so certainly, you know, I would encourage people to look atour blueprint that that's on our side and say, hey, how could Iadd value in that? Because actually tweeted out this morning, you know maybea also fillabill, you know, salty or something. I was like,you know, Ninety eight percent of health tech that you know, venture backed. Health Tep companies are, you know one just gaming a reimbursement system,either Medicare advantage or the employers. They're paving cowpas, they're putting lipstick onpigs or they are. It's just kind of a silicon valley boys with toyscentric, you know, let's reach the worried well or the narcissists, versusactually tackling the the big problems. You know where the always are really spent, and the good news is there are endless problems to solve. You justhave to get at the areas that are actually addressing. For example, youknow, you can worry about you know, these like well fitness tractors, and, believe me, I'm you know, of my drug of choice is exercise. So I'm like way into that.

I was, you know, collegiateathlete, Blah, Blah Blah. Like I believe in personal wellness,but actually the problems that we have are the five percent of the population whoconsumes fifty to eighty percent of the healthcare dollars. And a lot of thosethings aren't even traditional healthcare things, they are psychosocial things, and so there'sopportunities around them. And so a big part of it is, you know, deep whatever sort of is an area of passionate, area of expertise.Do a deep immersion. Get Out of your office, get out into theworld and and you get into this. The Nice thing about this ecosystem wehave is it's a magnet, right. It magnets attract things and they repelthings, and so there's a bunch of people who, I'm sure think well, they either just don't know who we are, which is fine, orthey just think we're crazy or delusional or whatever, and that's fine right.It's yeah, I'd ramber. We don't waste each other's time and the otherpeople, whether they're a doctor pt or independent pharmacist or health tech innovator,like it brings these people together in those collisions and those deep dialog like youcan't not see opportunities to innovate once you get out there and because there area multitude of problems, I can sure you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, there's definitely a lot of market gaps, a lot of problems out there tobe solved. So, in your experience, you know, what aresome of the strategies around Best Practices for, you know, creating a viable businessmodel in healthcare? I mean, obviously everybody's business model is going tobe different, but they're you know, there's a lot of complexities in buildingout an effective or viable business model in healthcare with, you know, thepayer not being the buyer and the not being the user, and you know. So, just in your experience, what are some of the strategies thatyou would recommend for our listeners who, yeah, and just today building outsolutions and trying to figure out how they're going to take it to market.Yeah, I mean it's it is an extreme challenge. I always tell youknow, many of my friends are in the tech industry and their engineers and, as I I guys like the the make or break thing will be thatcombination of business model and go to market strategy. Yep, and if youdon't get that right, the greatest technology in the world won't make a looka difference because it will never see the light of day. And so,you know, the part of what we're trying to do is, you know, simplify the value chain. You know it is complex by design and andit is remarkably straightforward once you remove this...

...and then you rebuild this layer andand so I think a big part of, as I mentioned, the immersion isspending time with these new models. And so, for instance, Ihad been writing about direct primary care as a healthcare services innovation boys starting abouta decade ago, and I saw it as a microcosm of where the healthcare system needed to go. Wasn't the one silver bowl or anything, butit was an important piece. YEA, there was a guy unbeknownst to me, who said, okay, that's pretty interesting. I'm going to go intothese practices that are doing this and see what their problems are and what werethey doing. They were because it's a membership model rather traditional primary care isall about, you know, billing and volume and and referrals and all that. And they and the what were they doing? They were like using excel, they were using gym membership software because they had this monthly membership. Andand then you'd get they trying to sell the employers and some employers would coverthe member or eighty percent of the employee and maybe a family member. Andyou got into is like wow, there's all this nuance there. Yeah,and so there this is company called Hint, Hint Health. So they said,Gosh, we're just going to build, build that, and so they becomebasically operating system for, in that case, payment eligibility, which seemslike it's really simple because it is a more simplified model, but there's stillquite a few nuances. You still have to verify eligibility in these models,even though, yeah, you remove the forty percent insurance bureaucracy tax, soyou have that type of thing where like go in see, you know,at the end of the day it is about the interaction between, you know, patients and clinicians. And if you go in study those new models ina particular area that's relevant to you. Could be in, you know,pharmacogenetics, it could be in a technology thing. Those things then reveal theproblems and that's a big Steve Blank as well known as is sort of customerdevelopment and means start up, you know stuff. And then he's always aboutget out of the office. You know, get in there, go in withyour hypotheses. But you know a quote, I think it's from markand reese, and he says, you know, have strong opinions weekly help, you know, being ready to prove be proven wrong. And so thatwould be my advice is to really get out there and is I keep Harton. There's a lot of problems. You just have to figure out what'sthe problem space that I can be focused in on and you can and stayquite focused. Right. It's and I'm, you know, exhibit a of beingguilty on this and the AH my God, is that like even acharacter trait of an entrepreneur, a serial entrepreneur? It's so many all theseproblems to solve. Yeah, yeah,...

...exactly. Yeah, yeah, okay. So, you know, you use this term lead, like ecosystem.Yep, we've kind of touched on the little bit, but just help meunderstand that term and what you know by that. Yeah, that's a greatso lead, for those who don't know, is from the US Green Building Council. So this is a model for how to build more sustainably built andoperated buildings. And what lead did over the two thousand and twenty five yearperiod was mainstream. Is wants fringe idea to where it's just the way youknow buildings are built now, whether you care about the environment or not,it's it's much more bang for the book. It's better. Yes, it isbetter for the environment and what they I like the analogy because the builtenvironment sort of like healthcare. There wasn't this magic day where all the oldpolluting buildings got raised in all magic be green built the next day. Yes, very French, very local. What happened was the old model with youknow waned over time. The new rows over time. Happened geography by geography. Places like Portland, Boulder, Austin were early adopters of this Prud itout. And what lead did was they had credited professionals like architects. Howdo you do this? There's this blueprint and sometimes I do that. Whatthey didn't do is say, put recycled bins and, you know, pollutingbuildings and will call them green. Right. First a lot of what passes forinnovation and healthcare is the equivalent of putting recycle bins and including buildings.And so they said, okay, here's this blueprint, we're going to correctthe architects and they certify buildings. And so we started with we're accrediting thequote unquote, architects of health plans. These benefits professionals, and then overtime, I could see a day where we would certify health plans. Youthink about today. You've got the biggest chunk of the workforce. Are millennialstoday, largest generation history. MILLENNIALS and postmillennials will be seventy five percent ofthe workforce and five years they get things like fair trade and lead and Iwould foresee a day where somebody's looking at too job opportunities that are otherwise equalones. got a you know, something like a Health Rosetta. Who knows? If we do it, but a health Rosetta Certified Gold Plan. Theother doesn't. It would be a no brainer where you go. You couldeven take that into the investment level. I would. I would argue acompany that's not doing any type of things is failing in their shareholder for duciaryduty as well. As there's the regulation round employer plans, is called Arissa, passed in the forward administration. I would also argue their failing in theirfor duciary duty there. And so it's odd that we have the street trillionplus market and there's no object the third party mark of call it. Andso that's where I think that lead.

Analogy is pretty good and, youknow, not perfect, but we're trying to sort of follow that rough pathwayof how do you mainstream something over a ten to twenty year period, andwe're fully cognizant of it taking that long. I would argue that if if somebodylooked as and said, oh, they think they're going to fix healthcarein the next couple years, they would rightfully say these guys are delusional.Yeah, when you have something that's a ten to twenty year time horizon andit's grass roots bottom up, it becomes less and less delusional and once youhave all you know, it's indisputable, people can touch and feel it withtheir own eyes, then that's when change happens. But it always right andit's just that's how change happens. Yeah, that overnight. Yeah, I meanthe other thing that you see with these great societal problems that have beenyou know, I don't say they're solved, but we're solving things like civil rightsand climate, better food and Energy and defense, these types of things. Guess what, they always start grass roots and then at some point,you know, and it's off the radar of the, you know, Johnq public, but then at some point there's a catalytic media event that thenbrings it into the public consciousness. So we're just quietly work in a way. And sure, I got my books. I'm a consultant on the resident whichis doing well, and that's getting some of these stories out there.But we'll have things to to, you know, raise up the visibility.There's a new book coming out from one of the most prominent physicians in thecountry, Marty mccarry, called the price we pray we pay. He hetalks about what we're doing and what our ecosystem is doing in the context ofthis broader thing and he actually, despite what we're seeing and the problems hepoints out, he's quite optimistic. There's a lot of great stuff going onand we need more of that. Yeah, maybe I'll have him in on theshow. He's great. I would definitely encourage you to. Yeah,so that one of the last questions that I have for you is, youknow, there's just seems to be this magnet in healthcare, right. Sothere's, you know, people like ourselves who've been in the industry for decades, and then there's all these other industries that are trying to get their pieceof the healthcare Pi. So so that, you know, the healthcare industry initself is just really saturated with so many people like ourselves that are advocatingfor change and and talking about different phenomenons. And you've done a phenomenal job atwhat I call rising above the noise. Right. So part of that's beenthrough some of your writing and your books and and kind of having theseunique ideas that you get out there and promote. But you know, whenI think about the peril allows of what you've done for your own personal brandand your businesses. You know, what...

...recommendations would you even have for thehealth innovators that are trying to rise about the noise, because they too arein a sea of a hundredzero plus innovations that are trying to target the sameaudiences. Yeah, what do you recommend for them? Yeah, I meanthere's different ways to get out of it. I'd say the system change model werefollowing. The usence of it is you find things that are working andfigure out how ways to massily replicate that. This was a system change model thatlifted tens of millions of people out of poverty in India and is remakingto keep part of the food system. And so what what they've done andwhat we're doing, and what I'd encourage people to do is pick a geography. The one you're in right, Dave Chase, is not going to fixhealthcare and noma or the keepsie or wherever right. There's going to be peoplein that community and whatever role you have to play, be a catalyst inthat community. You have influence. It might be your business owner or youknow a business owner, or your a memo, you know on a boardof this school or a nonprofit, or there's a sphere of influence you have. So I am I mean start small, right and solve it for a schoolthat serct solve it for a manufacture. Bring these ideas and and you knowwho wouldn't want to? I mean, if you actually look at the health, put aside the money, if you look at the health impact ofputting in these kinds of plans and how phenomenally improve the health outcomes are.If it was in a pill, it would be the biggest blockbuster drifting entry. And I look at is we're open source on what we're doing. Tome, you know, if somebody had to cure for cancer and they keptit secret, that would be a criminal in my view. Yeah, andso share this with your sphere of influence. And you know, of course,if you have a role to play in that, that's all the great, all the better. And I'm a big believer in what I've done overthe years is, you know, don't go you know, sort of beatyour chest about your particular product, be the sort of voice in your sphereof influence for the category of what you're doing and it can be the broadcategory and then at a certain point somethings else. And what do you guysdo? I mean that was the things that happen to me with my lastcompany was acquired by Web ind and the you know, I had been speakingto the been asked to speak at, you know, kind of the lifetimeachievement wards for, you know, one of the probably the largest medical devicecompany in the world. You know, speaking with a CEO their vpr andD and and you know here they were a large client of web and Dand metscape. The combination there and the...

...salespeople had never I mean they werefree four levels down in the organization. They like how in that are youpulling together as meeting with all these people? I like, I don't know.I was interesting. You know, I wasn't, because it because whathappened May, the way that came out of the VPR and d cold calledme at some point and I was writing about patient engagement in that case andhe want to talk about and talk to him and I wasn't like work inmy pitch into the first sixty second call show what a certain points like.What exactly do you guys do? You know, you're not just a fulltime rider, right. It's like no, yeah, that doesn't actually pay thebills so and he's like, Oh, we actually need that and let meyou know dot a dot and so that's a type of things. Sellyour category and be a thought leader, whatever sphirit influence you have, andinevitably things come your way if you're particular, if you're doing it from a pointof good will and trying to help people for the right reasons. Yeah, absolutely, well day. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom withme and our audience today. I so appreciate it. So, for thosethat want to follow you, stay connected, learn more about health Rosetta or yourlead like ecosystem. How do they get Ahold of you? Yeah,they can just go to health Rosetta Dot Org and if they you know,your your viewer. If they want to go whack friends, they can geta free download of my books there and, you know, sign up get connectedon just about every you know thing. I'm at Chase A, whether it'son twitter or Linkedin or whatever. And so if they want to connectwith me personally, you know, that's the way to do it and I'mhappy to, you know, connect people with I mean that's one of myjoys and my guess gifts, is being a connector with folks, and soI've welcome them to do that too. Excellent. Thank you so much.Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity. Bye. Bye.What's the difference between launching and commercializing a healthcare in avation? Many people willlaunch a new product, few will commercialize it. To learn the difference betweenlaunch and commercialization and to watch past episodes of the show, head to ourvideo show page at Dr Roxycom. Thanks so much for watching and listening tothe show. You can subscribe to the latest episodes on your favorite podcast APPlike apple podcasts and spotify, or subscribe to the video episodes on our youtubechannel. No matter the platform, just search coiq with Dr Roxy. Untilnext time, LET'S RAISE OUR COIQ.

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