Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

How Self-Insured Employers & Benefits Brokers Might Be the Most Fertile Ground for Innovation in Healthcare w/Dave Chase

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

One of the side effects of a broken healthcare system is that there isn't enough fertile ground for innovation. How can innovators choose the most viable business models and go-to-market strategies? Where can we optimize and accelerate within the system in order to create growth? How can we rise above all the noise in the market?

On this episode, healthcare entrepreneur, influencer, and Health Rosetta co-founder, Dave Chase shares how to solve the key issues that hinder successful commercialization. 

 

3 Things We Learned 

The healthcare system can lead innovations to the zombie graveyard.

The optics of landing a big health system seems like the golden ring, but it too often ends up being a boat anchor for most innovators. Everything that encompasses the essence of a health system is the polar opposite of what it takes to successfully bring an innovation to market. Proof of this is a zombie graveyard littered with promising healthcare innovations that failed to materialize. Why? One reason is that we have to be incredibly smart about picking our customers.

 

Benefits brokers are an overlooked linchpin to solving healthcare.

The relationship between employers and benefits brokers is the tip of the spear when solving problems in healthcare. Benefits brokers are the single most underestimated role in healthcare and the economy. For better or for worse, they make the decisions that most companies defer to and that’s what drives the state of healthcare. 

 

Think beyond your own innovation.

Don’t solely focus on promoting your own products. One of the best ways to accelerate the adoption of your innovation and create a highly defensible market position is to create a new product category and establish a leadership position in it. We should seek to be the voice in our sphere of influence for the category. Be a thought leader. By taking this approach, great outcomes will inevitably come your way. 

 

 

Welcome to Coiq and first of its kindvideo program about health, innovators earlier doctors and influencers andtheiar stories about writing the roller coaster of health care and ovation. I'myour host doctor, Roxy Founder of Legacy Da Marketing Group and it's timeto raise our COIQ welcome back to the show coiq listenerson today's episode. I am really excited to speak with Dave Chase. Here's ourguest. Today he is known as one of the most influential people in digitalhealth and he is a author advocate investor entrepreneur and he istransforming healthcare. So welcome to the show Dave thanks so much for Atvinme, I'm looking forward to the CHAP nexcelent. So you know before we getstarted, there's a lot of people out there. That know who you are, butthere's probably some people in our audience who don't so, let's start off,maybe by you just telling a little bit about your background and what you do, okay sure, yeah my background, Istarted my career and consulting with work in dozens of hospitals and basically helping them get as big abill out as and paid as fast as possible. That was, and I'm kind ofdoing, some of bat tenants. Now for that and and then I wenta started microsofts healthcarepartner, ECO system, so you think of Microsoft, kind of makes Lega blocksother people's assemble those into solutions, and then I detoured awayfrom health care for a dozen years and was in digital media and whatnot andthen came back about a decade ago and I sort of joke. I, like you know I MissSenso of Technology entrepreneur historically and you always look. Inteentrepreneur looks for a market gap. Yes, I went looking for a market gapand what I found was the greatest highest in American history and Icouldn't unsee it and so that company through thatprocess, I learned a lot more and I'm really a some people call systementrepreneur. I I think in terms of industry, ecosystems and and have hadthe fortune to do a couple of those big industry shifts, and that really put meon this mission because I essentially been on the scabvinger up tor the lastdecade on who's cracked, the coat on health care. Everybody knows it'sbroken, but for most people it's indecipherableas to how to make sense of it, and I found these people would crackthe code and the this metaphor came to mind of the Rose Edistone, because thathelped decode the formerly indecipherably Egyptian hieroglyphics,and these people have cracked the code. Thus, the Health Rosetta, which is thisblue print, that it wasn't me CRAWP, you know climbing up to the top top ofsome mountain, and you know Crossig my legs and dreaming stuff up. This lan uphad been...

...amazingly most people don't know aboutit and just remarkable thimes things thathappend. So it was this dichotomy between this kind of Distopian reality thatwe're in today, where we're bankrupting families and country and producingmedio creoutcomes, while also creating record levels of burnout and evensuicide amongst our clenitions. On the other hand, these people would crackthe codoas Utopia by comparisons. So I kind of joke just a marketing problemright, everybody. They knew about this system. That's not utopiats realitythey right fainstream. Yet so my mission is to really just mainstreamthat concept, and so we're doing. We've started with the employer arena and wecan talk more about that, but that's basically our mission is to I think of.If a health plan was a person you'd want itto be, your mother run a great mother, you know they look out for you, theykeep you healthy. They help bring it back to health. A you know when someidea sounds like it might be a good idea. It's really not you know, keepyou out of harms way, Soi, that's kind of the the sort of metaphor I thinkabout in terms of a great health plan. I don't think I've ever heard thatbefore that's interesting yeah, I think I think I came up with it,but who knows stuff, and you just, although is funnyI was talking to a guy a couple days ago. It was an investor we were talkingabout, he he sort of said Itin. So many words I was like wow, that'sinteresting. Somebody else would say that so I'm sure somebody else so yeah, that's great. I love the work thatyou're doing you know. So everything on this show isreally about. You know US coming together sharing stories sharing someof the challenges and in Best Practices to kind of move, the needle in anindustry. That's that's very complex, very difficult, but to help healthinnovators be more successful in their commercialization of innovation. So youknow my ouand. I have had had some conversation about this phenomenon ofthe Zombi graveyard, so let's just jump right into it, and- and so you know- let's talk- you know, what's yourperspective of the Zombi Graveyard, and why do you think some health innovatorssucceed and why some fail yeah I mean it's really difficult because there's alot of people, you know sort of pushing youparticularly investors and sort of h. The optics of landing. The big healthsystem is, is supposed to be the golden ring. When I think it's, I ends upbeing a boat anchor for most of these organizations, and that is, you know really almosteverything that is the essence of what a large healthsystem is about. Is it the polar...

...opposite of what it takes to bringinnovation to market? And so you know a good rule. Som, Ithink, is you know: Don't pursue a customer, that's larger than your install base and unfortunately, most of the startups are pursuing that and you know to be maybe kind of blunt. Alot of the innovation is trying to either pave te Cowpath or put lipstickon a pig and we're saying here's the big challente. There are actuallyorganizations who are fully invested in the new model and I think what a lot of people are doingis trying to sell. You know the equivalent of selling. You know newcommerce tools into sears and Kmart in the lates, when of course they would have beenbetter off working with Amazon rightor, some other ECOMMERCE innervator andthere are the equivalents of the Amazons and you know wayfares orwhatever out there the challenges and that's kind of what you try to do atsome levels. Kind of do this market. You know making rer matchmaking betweenthose, and so that's you know you avoid being a Zombi number one by picking your customers.That sounds kind of crazy, because you're just trying to survive yeah andI've been there, but that you picking your customers will bethe life or death decision for your business is my belief and- and I believe, if some you knowlarge organization is coming knocking on which they did, because I had a fairamount of visibility. I think the burdened proof is on them of how youknow demonstrated how you worked with a very small organization and put thisthrough, had success and reached it to the old organization. I know somesuccess, successful companies, one of which was acquired by fit that they hadtons of pereviewed studies and things they've done with health systems thatprove their approach worked and it never went to scale on any of thosehealth systems because, at the end of the day, Tho what they were doing wasgoing to reduce revenue for that heallh system. While helping patients gethealthier, that's the type of thing you have to bevery discipline on who you choose as your customers, and I think most peopleare just in survival mode and just trying to get any customer and believeme, I've made that mistake, so I'm just trying to help other people avoid thatinstud yeah yeah, absolutely so so true, you know they're just so so desperatefor a cash flow or so desperate for the big story right of the big flag shitthat they can kind of hang over their brand. So tell me a little bit moreabout this matchmaking...

...yeah. I mean the way we've decided togo about doing. It is really just go upstream, because Ilooked at all the disfunction and healthcare of which there's many manyareas of dysfunction always came back to the way we purchase. Healthcare atthe cort is radically broken, and until we change that none of the downstreamchanges make a difference, and so where we're focused in on is the employer.That's the tip of the spear, it's half of the revenue of the industry. It'sprobably three quarters of industry profits. No Act of Congress hasrequired as soon as the employer has. The mindset shift that no fixinghealthcare isn't like solving Middle East peace with, I think, a lot of themlook at it that way like they, like that fix too, but it seems hopeless andout of their control yeah Thinko, none, it's actually absolutely ar controlwhere a seven person company we're doing it. I've seen you know companies overtenzand, you know employees, do it and so we're doing is matchmaking theemployees employerrs, I should say through we've kind of been you know,building deminant, so I you think of supplying the man through the book andmedia that I do. These people go okay enough, like we gotgt to do something,and then we mapd them up with a credited benefits. Consultants. Ibelieve that benefits consultent benefits brokers are the single mostunderestimated role in the entire health care industry, PRI by extension,the US economy for better for worse. Sadly, it's been mostly for worse. Theymake the decisions that have that most companies defer to theirdecision making, and that is what has led to twenty years of wages, dagnationdecline for the work in e middle class and so what's happening there and we'reseeking to accelerate is remember stockbrokers. You know they went theway, the Doto Bird, the smart ones reinvented themselves as financial andwealth advisers right, that's where they had more aligned interest, and sothese great benefits, Advisors, they're, frankly underpaid theyr, wor, thorweight and gold they're, the ones who, frankly, we model the program afterthey're, the ones who have shown over several years, even a couple decades.How To do this? And so then we do this matchmaking andit's kind of weird that we have this industry, this trillions of dollarsthat are spent and there's no objective third party mark of quality, whetherit's for ar benefits consultant or whether it's for House plan. You knoweven a healthcare provider organization I mean have these bogus, like you know,we're the best hospitals or whatever, that's largely just a marketing charade,yeah, and so we say: okay, we're going to represent the interest of the employthe citizen, the member...

...and identify these folks who,unfortunately, the way the industry was set up for benefits, brokers, they'repitching themselves as buyers agents and getting paid byk cellars agents orput it another way. If I was to sue you and also pay for your attorney, thatwould be ridiculous, but that's how the health care industry is work Asto, thefolks we ace credit they at a minimum, they disclose all their fees and wefound up to seventeen UN disclosed revenue streams better, yet their olow only paiddirectly by the employer or the Union or whoever is the purchaser m. So how? How is that making ha difference? YopYep, let's labout some of those stories. Yeah I mean it's amazing. What happens? We have really been doing this inearnest if kind of trying to accelerate what was already happening it so nolike we came up with all this stuff, but what we see almost every day, I get another storyof this city. This manufacture this retailer. They dropped their spending. Thirty percent fifty percent. How the have did they do that? And what's the impact of that? Well,how did they do that? It's pretty simple unit cost we're paying too much on aunicost basis for things like imaging and surgeries, basically, medical care and we're paying too much on a unitcost basis for medication. You get rid of what we call pricing. Failure wherethere's price and failures is when there's no correlation between what youpay and the quality you get right. Yeah when you get rid of that, and youremind people, Gosh health care walks have known for at least a decade that athird O, a half of all healthcare spending, his waste, Pricewaterhouse Coopers Institute ofMedicine, there's no surprise there. It's probably only up since they theydid that and the other thing, though, a lot of people aren't recognizing as thevalue creators in healthcare, the clenisions, the nurses, the doctors,the pharmacist they're getting less than twenty five cents of every dollar,and so once you remove frankly price gallging and in some cases over treatment, thenyou can have that impact and the real impact sure it's great for the companyto have spend less money, but virtually everycompany says you know what we already committed those dollars to ouremployees and so we're not going to put that toour bottom line. We're going to put that back to our employees and we'veseen everything from companies pain for college educations, much bigger dollarsin the profit sharing pool. Just you...

...know getting rid of having premiumholidays of people have premiums for their employees. You know couple great examples.Recently that came in one was a. It was a a company that ownsconvenience stores and had an hourly worker, and she had some condition that Wul put heron a expensive medication and once they changed their drug precarement, thecost went down so much the employer said Hey. We don't want to have cossharing for that. We just want them to be well and for that working class, individual. What thatMat was for the first time since she had kids, she was able to take them onvacation, wow yeah. So that's the type of thing or the forkcliff driver who'sable to retire with a seven figure retirement payout because in their caseit was an employee, stockowned company, so that they reduced their spendingfrom eight million to three and a half million, while they improve thebenefits for the employees that all went to the bottom line increased thevalue of that company, so the retirement payof went dramatically upfor a guy who topped out at forty FIVEHUSAN dollars a year. So that's thething that really excites us is you know these people who are able to havea college education or able to take a vacation or have a retirement when mostpeople? Frankly, the way I look at it is our healthcare system is shovedpeople down Masell's hierarchy to whear they're in survival. MODEAND. If you don't mind that was this momentfor me, that was really kind of this har moment where I woke up March Ninh,two thousand and sixteen look at the news: The news from the Michigan Primary forthe Presidential Campaign Bernie and trump one, and I was like Huh. That isnot normal PRI. What is going on here and you start to hear about populasm NAgoogl- exactly is populasm en wend OES populism rise. Populism rises whenthere's economic depression like what exactly is economic depression. Well,one of the definitions is two or more years of wage, dagnation and decline.By that definition, over half of the workforce is in a twenty year longeconomic depression overwhelmingly at least ninety five percent created byhealth. Charecers employers are spending a lot more money, it's justall Hokare, and so we think of an economic depression. That is more thantwice as long as the Great Depression. Then you have to ask yourself: Howcould the burning trunk phenomena not happen? Man? We have our healthcaresystem to thank for that MM. So I love the stories that you'retelling in the real human impact- and you know, we've got to get more of those storiesout to just really encourage all of us as an industry that Changeis happeningand it's possible...

...seems, like you know the the eighthundred pound gorilla in the room- and you know, like you had said before youknow. We all know that it's dysfunctional and we're all moving tomake change, and sometimes it can be really discouraging, because you justthink that you know it's not Amore, it's not happening fast enough. Sothese stories are just really great. How does this match making in impact or influence a health innovator? Theythey need to do differently in order to be a part of this ecosystem that you'vecreated for real change. Yeah I mean this was part of you know. My last helptech startup. I was just frustrated like why you know:Isn't there more fertile ground for startups? I mean actually one of thereasons Y kN after I left Microsoft. Sixteen years ago, people like Oh yougoing to do a healthcare startup as like now health careis, where startupsgo to die right Riaht, I acar, but I like businesses at survived yeah at andthat's where I sort of got at the routcause issue of that, and so I think for the innovators.Obviously, it depends on what area you're in right. In terms of you can you know, there'r services, innovation.I think a lot of the most interesting thing happening is healthcare services,innovation from primary care or physical therapy. Behavioral Hellthere's a number of things that are really exciting there and then it's the things around that,certainly where we're particularly focusing I was an AL benefits. Guy Imean I received benefits, you know as a CBUCK, but I didn't really know abouthealth benefits and so there's a lot of activity around that, and so certainly you know, I would encouragepeople to look at our blueprint that this on our side say hey. How could Iadd value in that because you no actually tweeted out thismorning? You know maybe also till a little you know, salty or something Iwas like. You know ninety eight percent of healt Tech Bak. You know venturebacthealltap companies are, you know, one just gaming, areimbursement system either Medicare adbantage or the employers, theirpaving cow, POWs they're, putting lipstick on pigs or they are it's justkind of a Silican valley boys with toys. centric. You know, let's reach the worried well or the thenarcisus versus actually tackling the the big problems. You know where theAlays are really spent and the good news is there are indless problems tosolve. You just have to get at the the areas that are actually addressing. Forexample, you know you can worry about. You knowthese, like wel fitness, trackers and believe me, I'm, you know my drug ofchoice is exercise, so I'm like way...

...into that. I was you know, colegedathlete Blah Bah Blah, like I believe in personal ellments, but actually theproblems that we have are the five percent of the population who consumes fifty toeighty percent of the health care dollars and a lot of those thingsare'at even traditional healthcare things. They are psychosocial thingsand so there's opportunities to working mon and so a big part of it is you know,deep whatever it sort of is an area of Passione area, O expertise, do a deepimmersion get out of your office get out into the world, and- and you get into this, the nice thingabout this ecosystem. We have, is it's a magnet right, it magnets attractthings and they repel things, and so there's a bunch of people. I'm surethink whell they either just don't know who we are, which is fine or they just think we're crazy ordelusional or whatever, and that's fine right. It's yeah I'd rater. We don'twaste each other's time and then other people, whether they're, a doctor or PTor independent, pharmacist or Helttech innovator like it brings these peopletogether in those collisions and those deep dialogue like you, can't not seeopportunities to innovate once you get out there and becausethere aren a multitude of problems, I can assure you yeah yeah, absolutelythere's. Definitely a lot of market gaps, a lot of problems out there to besolved. So in your experience, you know what are some of the strategies aroundbest practices, for you know creating a viable businessmodel in health care. I mean. Obviously, everybody's business model is going tobe different, but there you know, there's a lot of complexitiesin building out an effective orviable business model in health care with youknow the the payer not being the buyer and the not being the user, and youknow so, just in your experience, what are some of the strategies that youwould recommend for our listeners who y trenches today building out solutions and trying tofigure out how they're going to take it to market yeah? I mean it's, it is anextreme challenge. I always tell you know many of my friends are in the techindustry and their engineers and is Lik guys, like the the makerbreak thing, will be thatcombination of business model and go to market strategy yeah, and if you don't get that right, thegreatest technology in the world won't make a Loik of difference because itwill never see the line today, and so you know the part of what we're tryingto do is. You know, simplify the value chain. You know it is complex by design and it is remarkably straightforwardonce you remove this, and then you...

...rebuild this layer and- and so I think a big part of is- Imentioned a the immersion- is spending time with these new models and so, for instance, I had been writing about direct primarycare as healthcare services. Innovation boy started about a decade ago, and I saw it as a microcosm of where thehealth care system needed to go. It wasn't the one Soer Boll or anything,but it was an important piece, Yeah Tho, as a guy on Benots to me who said:okay, that's pretty interesting, I'm going to go into these practices thatare doing this and see what their problems are and what were they doing. They werebecause it's a membership model rhether traditional primary cares all about.You know billing and volume and referrals, and all that and they and t e what were they doing?They were like using excel. They were using gym membership software becausethey have this monthly membership and and then you get they trying to sellthei employers and some emplayers would cover the member or eighty percent ofthe employee, and maybe a family member and you got into is like wow there'sall this nuance: There Yeah and so there this is company called Hint HintHealth. So they said Gosh we're just going to build, build that, and so theybecome basically operating system for, in that case, payment eligibility,which seems like it's really simple, because it is a more simplified model.But there's still quite a few nuances, you still have to verify alogability inthese models, even though a yeah you remove the forty percent insurancebureaucracy tat. So we have that type of thing. where, like go in see youknow at the end of the day, it is about the interaction between you know,patients and clomisions, and if you go in study those new models in aparticular area, that's revent, Toyou couldbein. You know farmaccand genetics,it could be an a technology thing. Those things then reveal the problems and that's a big STEEPE. Blank as wellknown as as sort of customer development and mean startup, you knowstuff, and then you know he's always about get out of the office. You knowget in there go in with your hypotheses, but you know a quote. I think it wasfrom mark an dresand. He says you know, have strong opinions weekly help. YouKnow Yo ene to prove be proven wrong, and so that would be my advice is toreally get out there and is I keep ARP on there's a lot of problems you justhave to figure t. what's the problem face that I can be focused in on andyou can and stay quite focus right? It's and I'm you know exhibited ofbeing guilty on this. A Oh, my God, yeah is that, like even a charactertrade of a Entrepreneur, a serial entrepreneur,...

...so man dsolve yeah Eah, exactly yeah yeah?Okay, so you know you use this term lead likeecosystem Yep, we've kind of touched on it a little bit, but just help meunderstand that term and what Diu O by that yeah? That's a great so league forthose who don't know is from their US Green Building Council.So this is a model for how to build more sustainably built and operatedbilm and and what Lee did over to two thousand and twenty five year periodwas mainstream, is once frenge idea to where it's just the way you know buildings are built now,whether you care about the environment or not, it's much more bang for thebuck, it's better. Yes, it is better for the environment and what they Ilike, the analogy, because the built environment sort of like healthcare.There wasn't this magic day where all the old polluting buildings got raisedand I'll magicy green built the next day. He has very enfrenched, very local.What happened was the old model with you know, waned over time. The new roseovertime happened, geography by geograpy places like Portland, BolderAustin were early adopters of this proved it out, and what Leed did wasthey accredited professionals like architects? How do you do this? There'sthis blue print and ND? Sometimes I joke that. What they didn't do was say,put, recycle bins and you know polluting buildings. A will call themgreen right, right or pout of what passes for innovation and health careis the equivalent of pudding, forcycle, Bens and including buildings, and sothey said, okay, here's this blueprint, we're going to crent the architect andthey certify buildings, and so we started with were creditingthe quote: Unquote: Architects at health plans, these benefitsprofessionals and then over time. I could see a daywhere we would certify health plants. You think about today. You've got the biggest chunk of the workforce Armallenniuls today, largest generation, history, millennials andpostmillennials will be seventy five percent of the work force in five years.They get things like fair trade and lead, and I would foresee a day wheresomebody's looking at two job opportunities that other Wi'se equalone's got Ta. You know something like a Health Orsetta who knows if we do it,but e health resent as certified gold plan, the other doesn't it would be ano brainer where you know you could even take that into theinvestment level. I would, I would argue, a company, that's not doing.These type of things is failing in their shareholder, FEDUCIARI DU as wellas there's good regulation. Around employer plans is called Arissa pastein the Ford Administration. I also argued their failing their fuduciaryduty there, and so it's odd that we have the street trillion plus marketand there's no object to t third party mark of Qualit,...

...and so that's where I think that leadAnalogis, pretty good and you know not perfect, but we're trying to to sort offollow that rough pathway of how do you mainstream something over a ten totwenty year period and we're fully cognizant of it. Taking that long, I would arguethat if, if somebody looked at us and said,Oh, they think they're going to fix health care in the next couple years.They would rightfully say these guys are delusional yeah. When you have something that's aten a twenty year time orizon and it's grass roods bottom up. It becomes lessand less delusional, and once you have all you know it s, indisputable peoplecan touch and feel it with their own eyes. Then that's when change happens, but italways right and it's just that's how change happens, yeah, that overnightyeah I mean the other thing that you see with these great societal problemsthat have been. You know, I don't say, they'R SALV, but we're solving thingslike civil rights and climate and better food and energy and the pencstypes of things gass, what they always start grass roots and then at somepoint you know, and it's off the radar of the you know John Cpublic, but thenat some point there's a catalytic media event. That then brings it into thepublic consciousess. So we're just quietly working away and sure I've got my books, I'm aconsultant on the resident which is doing well and that's getting some ofthese stories out there. But we'll have things to you know: raise up thevisibility. There's a new book coming out from one of the most prominentphysicians in the country, Marty mccarry called the price we pint. Wepay he. He talks about what we're doing anwhat our ecosystem is dealing in the context of this broader thing and heactually depite what we're seeing and the problems he points out. He's quiteoptimistic, there's a lot of great stuff going on and we need more of thatyeah. Maybe I'll have him in t on the show he's great. I would definitelyencourage you to yeah yeah, so so that one of the last questionsthat I have for you is you know there just seems to be this magnet in healthpair right. So there's you know. People like ourselves, who've been in theindustry forard decades and then there's all these other industries thatare trying to get their piece of the Healthcare Pie. So so the you know, thehealthcare industry in itself is just really saturated with so many peoplelike ourselves that are advocating for change an and talking about differentphenomenons and you've done a phenomenal job at what I call risingabove the noise right. So part of that's been through some of yourwriting and your books and and kind of having these unique ideas that you getout there and promote. But you know when I think about theparallels of what you've done for your own personal brand and your businesses.You know what recommendations would you...

...even have for the health, innovatorsthat are trying to rise above the noise, because they too are in the Sea of ahundred thousand plus innovations that are trying to target the same audiences?You know what do you recommend for them? Yeah, I mean there's different ways toget out of, but I'd say that the system change model were following the essence of it. Is You find thingsthat are working n, then figure out how ways to mastily replicate that this wasa system change model that lifted tens of m millions of people out of povertyand Andia and is remaking to keep part of the food system, and so what whatthey've done? And what we're doing and what I'd encourage people to do is picka geography. The one you're in right, Dave Chase is not going to fix health,careand, Omama or Thekipsi, or wherever right, there's going to be people inthat community and whatever role you have to play, be a catalyst in thatcommunity. You have a influence, it might be you're a business owner or youknow, a business owner or you're a MEMR. You know on a board of this school or anonprofit or there's a spher of influence you have so I am, I mean toHart small right and solve it for a school thats exsolve it for amanufacturer, bring these ideas- and you know who wouldn't want to. Imean if you actually look at the health put aside the money. If you look at thehealth impact of putting in these kinds of plans and how phenomenally improvethe health outcomes are, if it was in a pill, it would be the biggest block.Buster drop ceuntry and I look at is we're open source on what we're doingto me. You know if somebody had to cure for cancer and they kept it secret.That would be a criminal. In my view, yeah and so share this with your sphereof influence, and you know, of course, if you have a role to play in that,that's all the great all the better and I'm a big believer in what I've doneover the years is, you know, don't go you know, sort of beat your chest aboutyour particular product, be the sort of voice in your sphere of influence forthe category of what you're doing and it can be the broad category and thenat a certain point, sometbiny's Elt. And what do you guys do I mean that waso of the things that happend to me with my last company was acquired byWebmd and the you know I had been speaking to the been aske to speak of you know, kind ofthe lifetime achievement wards, for you know one of the probably the largestmedical device company in the world. You know, speaking with a CEO, theirVPR, ndd and- and you know here they were a large client of Web MD andmedscape. The combination there and the...

...salespeople had never I mean theye-were free four levels down in the organization they're like how Na areyou pulling together is meeting with all these people. I'm like I don't knowI was interesting. You know I wasn't because it because what happened I meanthe way that came out of the VPR andd cod called me at some point, and I waswriting about patient engagement in that case and he wanted to talk aboutand talk to him, and I wasn't like working my pitch into the first. Sixtysecond call Helatus ta certain poace, like what exactly do you guys do? Youknow you're, not just a full time rider right. It's like no yeah that doesn'tactually pay the bills yeah and Hes Lik. Oh, we actually need that and let me you know, dot a dot, and sothat's the type of thing sell your category and be a thought leader.Whatever sphere of influence you have, and inevitably things come your way ifyou're particularl, if you're doing it from a point of good, will and tryingto El people for the right reasons, yeah absolutely well day. Thank you somuch for sharing your wisdom with me and our audience today. I silappreciate it so for those that want to follow you stay connected, learn moreabout Health Rasetta or your leadlike ecosystem. How do they get a hold ofyou yeah? They can just go to HealthRorzeda, dad or, and if they, you know your your viewers. If they want to gowhack friends, they can get a free download of my books there and you know, sign up get connected onjust about every. You know thing I'm at Chase Day, whether it's on twitter orLinkein or whatever, and so if they want to connect with me personally, youknow that's the way to do it and I'm happy to you know, connect people with.I mean that's one of my joys and y guess. Gifts is being a connector withfolks, and so I'd welcome them to do that to excellent. Thank you so muchyeah. Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity an i. what's the difference between waunchingand commercializing, a health care novation many people will watch a newproduct. Few will commercialize it to learn the difference between latchand commercialization and to watch past episodes of the show head to our videoshow page at Dr Roxycom. Thank so much for watching and listening to the showyou can subscribe to the latest episodes on your favorite podcast, APPlike apple podcasts and spotify, or subscribe to the video episodes on ourYoutube Channel, no matter the platform just search Coyq with Dr Roxey untilnext time. LET'S RAISE OUR COIQ.

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