Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 2 years ago

How Innovators Can Increase Their Chances of Market Success w/Matthew Holt

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Healthcare innovators have to make a lot decisions in the commercialization process and each choice can determine the success or failure of the innovation. What are some of the pitfalls of bringing an innovation to market? What needs to change in healthcare to make innovation easier? Why is proof of efficacy and value so important to gain adoption?

On this episode, I’m joined by the founder of The Health Care Blog and SMACK.health, Matthew Holt, who shares his point of view on why some innovations succeed, why some fail, and where the market is going.

 

3 Things We Learned

  • The two main types of innovation
  • One of the biggest issues in healthcare
  • Why healthcare innovations get stuck before implementation

 

One of the main reasons why healthcare innovations fail to reach any level of customer acceptance and profitability is because the industry is a very unique beast to deal with. Healthcare innovators must consider the experience of the clinicians who will use the new solution. It’s also important for innovators and investors to expect and plan for the long sales cycles in healthcare. You also must know how your solution fits into the larger healthcare ecosystem. Ultimately, there are a lot of things that have to go right to reach commercial success and there are no short cuts to developing a winning commercialization strategy.

Welcome to Coiq and first of its kindvideo program about health, innovators earlier doctors and influencers, andthey are stories about writing the roller poaster of health care andovation. I'm your host doctor, Roxy Founder of Legacy, DNA marketing groupand it's time to raise our COIQ welcome back to Youyq listeners ontoday's show. I Have Matthew Holt with me. He is the founder of the healthcare, Balogue cofounder of Health, two point, O conferences- and you mightknow him even more by his twitter handle at Bulti boy, welcome to theshow Matthew, Roshes Real Pushin, to be yeah great ged, tely little bit, I'mlooking forward to trying yeah I'm looking forward to having a very candidconversation with you about writing the roller coaster of health care anevation.Today, there's a lot face on the downfaceyeahshoot it straight today. So you know there's a lot of people outthere. That already know who you are, but just in case some of our listeners,don't took just a couple of minutes and share with us a little bit about yourbackground and what you do well. So what I do now, mostly, is I'm cok and Idon't know what to say. I say I do health technology and early stageinnovation stuff, because what I actually doin that Ni I'm sort ofbathed in that milia way back when I was a sort of poor,endish graduate student hanging out a stand for trying to find ou what to doin my life, and I ended up stumbling into the politics and policy ofJapanese and American Health Carso. You believe that IAM lot be funded project.Looking at those twew things- and I was Li like health policy, health, businessguy- and I did a lot of work back in the earls looking at you know theevolution of the US healthcare system. I basically did the U USLF and theLibal Chappan Tepan off UN, no ha been back in Jabana Loft twe years, butthere was a long pre bid. INTEUSTRA PAN for the reason. Okay- and I ended up getting my firstinsulting job out of Stanford- was a place called the Institute for thefuture and if it was the future, was this crazy to research thing? Taksitting on Sangel road right next door to the VENTA, captalist kind of perkINS and had research and consulting into her as or self technologyhealthcare, and one was technology and only the cwildren didn't mix andsomebody somewhere had sold a project to a bunch of tech companies abouthealthcare and they got somea bunch of health planes that wil O purs abouttechnology. And no one was no one. Did it and I watch it the door and theywent hey. You you're doing this project, so I spend the S. learning about health,carry BU health, cary oning by technology, happening gos to togetherand running a project about that, and what I eventually happend was that thatwas the same time the web was taking off and the Internet was taking off andyou know eveyonewas joining the dcom e health craze and even I n the end endof the NIETES joiing te start up doing, Ou, know, com, health, stuff and so thahave a decade like getting mercene into that and then the next decade, whichwis the SOMOF, the eiehteen thousand spen ber the time of the beach postcom.But alsaid I did a lot of consulting work for MONLY, most of etech companiesabout the healthcare system, but, as he pointed out, I also started this blogcalled the health cab. Lo because that was GOINNA. The Take Yiu dos Ho startedthe blond back a Ha an three right when there was instant Ponean daily cosinabout ten other blogs and actually probably what made that Ot. The careerwas was that in two thousand and four five, the Most Ge Journal rodartical aboutyou, know the top blogs by industry and the health cat on with Te Healthcharactere. You know G recordthe on hat it was like a year and a half old orwhatver that stage, and maybe at twenty seven readers a day anyway that thathelped it take off because it was a god, Bat Nograt. The other thing that wasgoing on at the time, so so that the bagain still goes on. Hel Comon Yo gothere. DOIT is it'. All about health came business, seltcare polsy ofCatteck as ONA video o me and Ihe is...

GRANA A in my n box absolutel. At that time I was also kind offollowing up on that stuff. I looked about looked at in the NS, like the youknow, the little companies that were still roing healthcare and cechnologyon the Internet and there weren't many of them around, because the whole thingI imploded with the dcom bus, but there were enough itwas just gettinginteresting and they knew who Wen public andspent all money around and bytwo thousand and seven around n somebody called and six on e somebodycall be inse, BIE and indes. A A doctor Ho had a conical background, but whenit's a business and IAID, you know there's enough this stuff to beinteresting when she was don be to research into it as well- and I saidyou know one of the a bunch of these people- I've been talking to H. havethis Otte Company said? Why don't you do a conference somen? Well that be funof than now Bo, EA confrort, an she wer yeah. We should do a comference, so wedid it and that became healthty Poino and by you know, the mid teens. We hada couple of thousand people come to a big conference in Santa ClaraCalifornia. We had you know, maybe three of oned Percentes Wehaddouzens and dozens at Hunr, an a hundred live demors, Aewe conferenceinme a commer Sitin Europe. We have spen off once in South America and Japan andyou now we have lot activity Goonthe, Centry, that conference business don'tdo Olbother to consulting and technology innovation, work and then wothousand and seventy is just two years ago, Hims purchased the CONFENC ide ofit Indo and I still run the bit calledCalliss, which does the which does kind of challenge: competition management intechnology. Right now we're running someto, the Woll with JohnsonFoundation. Abe We wo want to Ataout apbligation in the social eternente ofhealth or in community and homebased care should be entering that comdasprize money, freenoter and Thut'St. One of the many thingswe're doing with man for the moment there, and then I also created businissschool smack Helt, which basically dhoes early stage startup advisory up,iearly to midstage start advrisory, helping cos figure out. You know how theyshould be present themselves to the outside world, helping throughout theirbusiness models, some of the stuff that sort pretty precus to what you do. Wedon't really get into the fast commercialization stuff that we do it.We Yo ging to help around making sure that your deck looks somy,sensible and Soyeo usualy talk about butch, O capall, that kind of stuff, nomuch of different things. You know and still ride and talk and pet ol stufflike thit, so yeah yeah. But about me my freshal wife Awesome. So you know,as you just described, you've been around healthcare innovation for youknow decades. Now your take on what it's like wriding,the roller coaster of health canivation today. Well, I think the roller coaster partis: is high dependent on two things right, so there is the up and the downand we're still in a an upphase, but I think people re looking at the righttop of this and going what happens to ex. So what is that? It's Connectin toatteck business as a whole, which of courses Ben a massave search upescential. I mean there was a bit of Bak the hadcup. You know the OtoHousands and there was a bit of a hiccup. You Know Ao, nine and funding,but in general you know the transformation of society by the PeopleHo Selles. You know these these cute devices d by Thepeople you now and the box that comes you know onto your front porch and e Utey. The andter comes in when you typesomething into the certain chengine. You know who I mean right: Yeah, thetransfimation of society that has been dramatic and health technoges kind ofattach itself to that, especially the funding pot. So there wasn't there wasa decent amount of activity in the S, but that really was too early. Therewasn't much agin the other two ousand POB, the late tozand of starting tohappen. Ind stoin got interruptin by the Creshino nine and then, since twothousand and ten we really had an uninterrupted amount of funding goingto you know: hone of Youur Calld, some Gon, O digital health and e going topost as well like all Thi, mackolt Doen doesn't matter where you call it theSeton of technology, that of health...

...technology that is sort of on the cloudand is am ix, O an use like consumers and colitions, but and that has gonefrom someon, that iner suggesting Ondee two billion in the two thousand andtenty thousand Leven, and then e estimates rage between eight billionand fifteen billion in Funday last year. Oa still going going on so one area youknow talking about a coasturs is the funding cycle and how much there is arailel and wer seeing just a DA pendressgos public. Last we POL ERprobe, we sen wole interesting whare, I'm still lost making businesses goingprublb on the stock market, wheres a lot of money around for it. For thatwe'll see how oll that last yeah Yeph the second and equal important part ishow's. The health system reacting- and I think this is really interesting,because you've got kind of two approaches. What is we're going to selltools to the health system incumbents to made ther more efficient, O moreeffective and most health technology companies view that as the way forwardand they're looking at in the signe, the drug companies pospital systemsdevice companies sewing into Providale, O big Drid, ornizations or health pans,or your governmenges, an whateven, then they're selling stuff in the encumbentswer the hole, the Makin do better Hitas a small flice out there, but some ofthe very highly find in the people saying this is not like you know:selling bonds and nobile or borders a better online experience for theirbookstore. This is about Puin, those guys out of business. We want to beAmazon and Therere, always to e place to current incumbents, by figuring out,better ways to eliver health pinal, better ways to to Creata Prima cardrop.What have you and you, and that affect of me is very interesting, because ifyou look at healthgare across the board, it's only got bigger and more blowed anmore inefficient and more effective uer, the last two decades and more expensiveand put prices up, and if you look at the satisfactionwith it to end consumers, patiente be Rostet, use the system it's going downand access to it is well that improves slightly with the CA still going out athat wasn't the solution that you know that it could have been, which is why,on the one hand, you've got a lot of grunpy people fom on the right on theleft. Talk about free market stuff when on the lefs you Hav the Menacare forall campaign. So I think th. It's really interesting to see if, ifThaye's an opportunity to kind of really replace the way we do health cam now or whetherwe're just going to sot o keep down the path of growing the USELFCARE system,adding new technology, but not really changing what it does fundamentallyuhuh Yep, so Jus, just kind of building on that. You know everything that I know about you is that you know you're a futurist, andyou know you kind of observe these patterns and trends right and you kindof just touched on some of that and kind of forecasting. What's next, sowhere are we going? And you know what does the future hold for entrepreneurswho are bringing innovations to market? Well, s think this is interesting. I' actuallyliterally just got off a call about what I'M GN t saying: Europe N, aCOMFEREC, healhy Beo, Hinns Europe an next month and it's a you know: We'vebeen doling a lot about activities o there to sort of unleashthe consumer side from their more stadardized state based systems andthey've got actually things like Dr Booking mechanisms and ai tool to helpsupport the front end of reaching reaching o consumers reaching doctorsactually growing quite fasterer than we lost funit over there in Europe and tosome extent that's been going for etreprase. That'sbeen going quite fast here, which seem quite a lore of activity towardsconsumers. I'm thinking about the teller, medicine companies, I'm alsothinking about the bricks and moter companies are urgent care and what haveyouave been whov been getting able and change the censeemer experience alittle bit and we there's some Sebbativ...

...the different excentra suggesting thatthere's a significant difference between sort of old farse like me, whocare about their okay who care about their doctor relationship and youngerpeople, luckey rosy who ar less attached to an individualdoctor or system and a looking for more convenience, and which is why you seethe go toro an care, an that's a of demographic change there around the ageof fifty roughy. So that's! I think one thing is: Whatcan you do after celderate to a consumer and there's a lot ofopportunities in that area, especially as probably it's going to stay this werthat the US is staying N, a higher eductable, more consumers, paying thefirst teenosand dollar Ou, a pocket system, Yep the problem or the issue, l that theOer ine start things the system for the system is that that's all wat and greatmost people use the system like that. Most people have modest health issues,most people have you know this kids get sick or what they want to. They want tosee Asan care. They want to see par health. You non see a bunch of stuffaround there, but most of the money amust. The problem is attached to a fewnumber of few people are sick, right, yeah, those people the want Os to h.The current system makes all its money off and gives apretty bad experience to, because what we do in the COENT systems. We know alot of procedures to people. We don't do very good management of people atchronic illness. Who are the people who gost all the money- and I think youknow one of the interesting is- is to look at. How can canwhat is the rightunit for which to approach a better system for managing those, those Cirrodeal people and essentially stopping them going into the merchant stroomstopping them going to the hospital stopping them. Having come on Thi threedoctorits, but wontoring man and managing them, while they're in theirhome or while they are you where they as my friend Jaes Storson, comes Roybook, called Health Consuming says where they, where they, where they live, live, work,play and pray right, yea yeah wel were in a place to people are going that youcan can impact them, and you save some very interesting Compani to Tryg, toyou, know, put senses in the home personces on people and Build AG systemwhere they can track and manage a mator them and then start figuring out whatthey can do to interveme with services like nurses, caling, again or doutorsgoing to the house, or what have you? And I think that the key contropers tofigure out what's the unit where they're selling Tou in that are theyselling to healt anjonce plan meamedical marage plan? They Santo ahospital system with now taking some risk aether, so direct consumers. We know they sento players, question about wet. Who is the answerwho O whoas responsible for those pecies atte selling emation to layselling that service to people? My Age for their parents, who are s livingalone in their adies or what have you so I think that that's a big questionis that you know if you'R Gon, Ta Direct Togainsem of someoneas cheap andeasy orsoing Soin complaxs, but it's going to reduce health carecost andimproves the care of people with motible, Produ elices. What's the rightunit ou? Where do you? How do you prove that out and then the next point is Waa prove it out? How do you get Clinical Dato, the validate? What you're doingyeah we Wen sa coml data on how they do Metyou know: Yeah Yeah! You prove thatthis thing actually works. Toes'r want col to es about that as well. By theway Everytiso. You know, Theloel Sayou, that some of these player wellfens orare not a Fakov and don't don't work. A lot of companies have kind of got inthere. SOMTHE sort of move fast and break things and get in there and startrunning the programs without really proving that out, sower contromousyabout that as well Yep, absolutely the afficacy of those things. So have youcome across any pretty unique business models that you think maybe eitherbecome a challenge for that innovator or become a opportunity for them? Werr a lot of challenges, because themain people who hold the money now...

...have are either large and some moststorotic insurance companies who don't really want to. There is someexpermetation on there, but don't really want to jump in and do somethinggreat new and have very established lationship with with prideorganizations or provider orgizations who are thinking about getting this newworld of taking risk and doing Valu base care, but in general make alltheir money don't seem the service and you know want to make sure their bedsare filld. So I've I mean ill, give Meu one exact, Liba company I work withwhich has an interesting Prodet provaam for ausing readmissions, post Hospitl,this jodge. So, as you know now, hospitals get don't get paid tha. Webit a patient of the thirty day within yeah. There's Loof convoversy aboutthat. What are you saying t at Yo, a lot of wiing about whenher? That'saffectiv wit. I and a lot of re missions on Day thirty, one and thitytwo, so this company is struggling to findpeople you know because they believe they cand rease remissions probently bydoing stuff, and that so that kind of struggling to prove that out, because the you know the because,because they can't find tha people arstol to go for the system and thennot only is the issue of well. How do I prove something Ol, but you know justGoin to stop the remeshon days, anyone with the hostil ges paid again, butalso they're having the really basics where they'll sell this tima for theFinancei, prerson or Han a marketing person. Some of the Wen, I say ministatiol- will by this, but then they have to go to have a conversation withsomebody, who's running the butch, an nurses calling on the phone and changetheir workflow and that's realleally hard and eventually a lot of th timesit get stuck that you know you have the medium and at the third meeting, theperson on TNAT GROOP be in to Hebu E whate want to change this. You know wewere doing okay, Yep, yeahand stuff, get stuck in the COOF invrentationphase or in before the invvintation face right, wed the figne off from fromthose people on the front lines, and you know thees. This is Lin the SACINJana Camor O. No, he says, there's like a delivery layer, ilovation layer andthese two things that've taln very well, and that's a big problem because youhave millions of billions. People, Ike Bilelar, a bunch of was trunning on Tisiduvation layer and there are people thes, orlizationsthare are innovation groups and funding groups Tryin to cross that bridge, butrolling out these new systems within these within these organizations isvery hot yeah Yeah Yep. Absolutely so I talk about this stat often you knowthat research indicate that ninety five percent of innovations that are broughtto market fail to reach any adequate level of Co, customer acceptance orprofitability, and so the question that I have for you is you know, as someonethat's had your ear to the ground for so long. Why do you think somehealthcare innevators fail and some succeed? o I mean so. I think a lot ofit go you asway back in my career before I gon tothe US. I spend time as time as he futures Prayna, Mr Jo Tha. It's good tobe good and it's going to like him as better be lucky than good asoluckyright, a you in the right place right time right time, especially ticingstuff. That looks super cool. Now it's doing succeed now. That is exactly thesame, the stuff that was done ten years ago and that didn't succeen, becausethe Tlanen was wrong. He goin give the right people ther a lot of it is, canyouget you at the right time an yo get the right champion n that organization.You know the right. Did you? Do you fit a payment stream that was coming awaynow that wasn't aline five years ago, even though its the result woul prettymuch wit, the sayme. So one of his like luck and timing, you can do somethingto kind of figure out if you are the right time, Thas, the right Licke andit's the regulation tat all the payment, streamas ging, the right way. The second is, is I ha SASrelationships, the re relationship, drimn business and it takes a while to make those- and you know sometimesyou can go around those watisthips. You can t ver the taxis or the Amazon, theboards and bars ot nobile, but a lot of if you're having to go with that, youhave to figure out the right...

...relationship with those organizationsand those can be very tricky because there's, a very insideent stanlizedorganization has been around for hundreds of years. So in some case and then I think the the the tymical one, which I think is true-it's kind of ignorance of the healthcare system, people take peopleof bisral coming from the outside and not understanding what the fromunexperience the clomition is. Etcee, CEA and Finniy just dies there. So y there's a bunch of a reason. Whyyou? Don't you don't get it right? And I think I like to all of that. I alsom theSAENCIS that you need a lot more time. An money you think you do is by nature a problem when you'r nostate startup, because you don't have much time much money in your investorscan be you know putting money in Instagram or whatever that the thingthats going to flip the facebook in twelve months an make a lot of moneyand Bhy. Do they want to see you aver several years? I think investorsgetting wiser than that. Anon, the Oher, and you know it's not it's those pressures on startups, an ostage. Venture backto orizations t at arealways going to do around yeah. You know I have a lot of conversationsaround. You know, folks that think that, just because they've identified aproblem and they have a product that they think is superior to anything elsein the market that it's going to be the shoe in that I's, going toautomatically equal success, and you know to some degree, there's a lot of Zombi graveyards out there with theseenites innovative products just kind of sitting in there some were aiting to beresurrected and some will never come back out to play. Absolutely and look.I look at the world of so okay apple health records, for example, which wasbased on a company which got of Te Helse, tope, no cool, glimse, soil, Washit and start out to an watchin the health to Prin, a conference yeah and that's suly cool. I was in acambery called Ibganin, two thousand and two thousand more, which IDbasically etact the same thing and Wen trying to seld the whole bunch ofpeople, and you know we troe W weam and that's and I'm sure that's softwaresitting in the box somewhere, I coul be resor. Nextido't know where it is, God that was climbing, but it was money.POBYT was like it. It was all these different things, but but again it wastheir ondling stands. Were there the bunch of of reasons why it didn't work,but really was the market was ready for it? And you know a big player likeHapiten said they had time O to take it sort of forcing into the market Matoonow down so alot a ot that an mi like to solidapple made lot of money, but thats EXACI was to Poro byit Bak a right atright, yeah, you know so so what do you think thebiggest pit fells are to commercialize in an innovation? IS IT product marketfit? Is it problem solution fit? Is it being able to get in front of the rightpeople? Let surviving the long sale cycle developing the clear businessmodel. You know, which I think is the lost to Rollin me, also think it's likethe Cell Pie, just tan forever doesn't matter. You know you're going to takeseveral months and then you're going to lose people. Your best is going to loseinterest. Whatever whit's is going to take wrong with you think Ba. So Ithink I think the southlicl thethe other problem- and I runed this all thetime with my stufts. I work with IIT's really hard, and this is not just inhealth. This isn't any new starp film. It's very hard to clearly explainsucinctly and affectively. What is that you do yep and therefore you end up getting bucketedas being something like your your like this be a bit different than whatever,and I don't get it and don't we have some tams those nd yeah, it doesn'trose to the top. I'm I right now have a spupit CLOB accompany I'm working withthat's in the medication sort of...

...management for conceamer space, there's't dozens of medication go reminder aps out there and we're it's really noteasy tryg to figure out. How is it whet? You are different, better won, tuffthing that you've got the Dat and getting over that Hurle with you knowthe first conversation Onthe first couple of conversations with investors:clients, customers in Por, whoever it is right, ind, two minutes, theevenoingit r an getting the shop to make that make sense is hard and by the way youmay not be different to those' ather seventeetohave to figure out what doyou have to go away and build? It is different up and find something that Wiall. Maybe your choice is e Von Sell. One that seventeen or one of theircustomers and be a plug into something they're not doing or whatever igh rightright it, but yeah you're right we've go at Yor. Ninety five percent: Don'tmake it ting a wat you're the alsuspecked against you in thisbusiness, yeah yeah. So what needs to change in healthcare to make innovationeasier? Oh wow wast't. Some of this changing ryOm, the SDA Scott Golleg, who recenly resigned as commissioner reallygot behind, but obetellan hints work in the FDA to training a sort of frameworkfor for allowing disahealth tenlogies to be approves Aon the thing on for theright process, rather than every time. Tit's like changing the wayt happens.Al T, the tech happens to have a put it back through the faprovel process, so that I thing is a good help. It wasreary funny to see when Itston Gollin Leftro as a farright libertarian. Allthese AR liberals. I know on twin Ewere, crying tears of sad that Studio Sandi, because they'vealready done such a great job. Tl El Te feel wrong, not many trumpadministration. You know pehendo departments AV got lesepeople mourningyeah anyway. The so has one thing t that that's that's a help, but I thinkthe biggest thing is how we think about paying the health ca and really, if youlook at it, we are in a world where still possibly spite all the time aboutvaue cat belly. You know dally bases care, hospitals and doctors get paidfor doing stuff. Yeah d well get paid for the outcome of maintaining health,and so this means that you have to do workaround you have to go to. As you have an innovation. That's he service orteck. That's going to keep people healthy for long. You have to go andtransfer the inpayeris, maybe the emparis employer, but you know they'renot really the right people to be buying new types of health cadelaryservice. They really should be buying it from a third party, but they pay aninsurance comuntois going some care because they just made money on the onthe markup. The hossoals don't care because they may bony fom, I di morestuff until we change the way fundament. When you think about payment stuff, weare going to be king to be slicing Houn, the egines now by more timmistic. That's Gointo haveme Ar redic about it. medicares talking now about changing the way: Thats plasePrimry Care, youknow, there's more more people,Medica, abonage, planers thand. We could change Owwey, an medical bondageso that it's really rewarding better outcomes and there's less risk adjustment around the the riskassessment. Ouorup, cheating and lying around the risk ascessont scores thatthat change, how there's Meicao Monttro I just get paid. However, you know I'mnot introy Outimistin an change the next couple of years, but I thank we'reheading the right direction, but that's the biggest thing is yo. You Cul caldchange that day on the on. That's the for the SIC people for the healthypeople. H are paying out O pocket. I think we just need better communicationthat there are these other things out there I mean I'm nstunned when I go toa crowd. I've been in two crowds recently, where the audience was poleabout hand they ever used to Telle Elpisit, and these were people, add ahealth technology conference re, maybe earlyadapters. The number is about thirty percent ofthe of the ever had one and it's not the general population numbers, I'm.What better you going, why the Hell...

...notto recover in your plan e Thangquicker than going to a regular doctor, I've done a bunch of them yeah andsomehow mea, yet consumers haven't gone on made the Leag to go. I can use thesenew tools for stuff that I'm Goin to be pain. For Anyway, you W I'm going to bepaying at least my copay and probably morelikely my entire cost up until like Minten Thousan Dolla, five thoun noerthe doctoal, so you Kno, I think, there's an awareness factor on the sortof easy, cheap stuff, but what I think will help ther is that the technoitycomg into the home, you know we hot Wai, the scales. I have a blood pressurecuff silting in front of me that you know I bought te Thir, but it at thedrug store and that stuff stubule getting online and the we more morethat stuff in the bathroom and more and more, I see ar home testing companiesbeing fundin fact, two of them Erelly well and go you check. I Com e Ho One just gotyour big round: o Thirn, fifty million Aou dinostic testing so think a lot ofthis stuff is that e going to come in but Panay what we doin? There's a Lotgof that going on the Apple Watch and what have you so, I think for the forthe sor of cheaper end for the thipamenl, occasionally Cune, stuff andweere, basically healthy. We are going to be doing more and more an o when people Gaan more wore awareof the type of the Lothans available to them, but there is still awaren astrenges you now. The healthcar system is the ALCA system and people don'treally think to changes. So so, when I hear you speaking, you know, there'sthere's a lot of decisions. A lot of commercialization decisions that ahealth innovator has to make and a lot of these are innarrelated like so, forexample, as you were talking about you know, depends on who is the buyerand who I'm identifying is my target market? Is then how I'm going tostructure my value proposition is how I'm going to align my business modelind, really in order for me to have kind of this recipe for success. I'dbotto be able to have some type of decision, making, frameworr and really way to be able to identify howall of these are inarelated. When you're working with clients, youknow how do you help them? Ask the right questions and kind of test andpush and play devils advocate on some of these assumptions that they'remaking, maybe theyt, do enough on othing. Theway is that what can they identify is the piece that they're going afterright? I got one cat. I work within the WHO's, got Lik apesinou person, halfrecord thingi mean that's too broadus to general. You know you don't be ableto sell that. Where do you who do you think, might buy this and we worked itout and we believe there's a space for them in clinical trial management andpoinpall back issues, a Ronda thing: Ov they day they and Mak er a polback wasgoin e, their the issues in the trical trial that there is a different targetmarket there. So that's one way, I tell you w. How do you narrow down the focus?You War, small somebony? You can make some trath on again fo who the fivepeople call ar so you're, not like dro boll the ocean. I think not that I'mdeeply involved that you've seen some success of this kind of on the one in the prescribing directorconsumer space, so comple successful companies I mean so it's Nomof, my good rxs, a identified that you can present at thetimeer decision at the counter in the pharmacy, a bunch of apctions to bout,Srowyou, cost right and then tell people exactly how thatworks by spending money on ads. Similarly, all the people doing nowsort of tellemet Om the AV very specific drugs, usually for balness orretal disfunction or burk control, so new Rx, hins, Roman few others in that,in that space, right, Pandy, Elf, in the bay area, you knowvery much saying you know we're not going to tryand do everything for you, but that one specific thing we can help you withoutone issue and we can take away barriers to go to your docter and Bengembarrassed B. Othe fact that you have know ed or whatever the issue is andtake away some of the cost. Now...

...don't forget theyv all had to SAV WOBEony drect. You can see es for this stuff that spaceand cash pay and we'regoing to have O to market it like a Berd consimer pror, which is veryexperensive in MES team, the ADS and Bikin glads and Faceboo Gars, andreally you know, make you trying to build a bran which is not a cheap thing.But if they ca do that, then they can slice off what should bevery profiable piece of the F, the describing of the bescribing market,and you know- and you probably will end up seeing some of the big players in in the drug story in the stree buyingone those guys Ar. I would think if theyr successful or ist coming afterthem with their anvertion of it. So but I think in all those casesthey're taking some to me small Ande gone after it, you knowand, then yeah try to identifyclearly to both their investors and to the the buying public or theirpurchases in this clase of cinsumes. One of this they're doing yeah is thethree things that we thinks for you come see us and I think a lot of the problems. Ik s of contect Comin,especially being mete companies is that they'll go to a hey'll, go to a big client like ahealth, Planer O prvidal Mansation, and they can they have their platform andthe planits great. Can you do this this and this, and then they will build thatup and they build they've kind of become a quaity thethnologi consultingcompanies of that climt Ro that some they can just stand on repreve acrossmany customers, but at least theyre they're the door there and they got acustome they getting going it's hard for them to get out of that out of thatMansthor, so o eme, what they're providing right right? It's a difficaldecision set for a for an ony stage, company to Restewit Yeah Yeah!Absolutely, Are you customizing your solution for one customer or you makingsure that you have something viable across the board right oothey can bothdo right solutions but you're? Probably if you go too far, hotmone path, you're, probably going to find it difficult put. On the otherhand, you know you, may you may Yomain watchhes platform and Thak Cin availbe a lot of people, but no onemight buy it because they rl want to be customized n bean, you kind of startthet, iti yeah. I think you know when you- and I were talking several weeksago. We were talking about that example of someone that I have you know spokento, that you know they built a platform that they thought was going to beacross the board for everyone kind of certain configuration for everyone.They landed a big account. They were so excited. It had a three year engagementand over those three years that client demanded so much from them, ind so muchcustomization that they didn't have any time or attention or resources andactually building their company, and then they didn't renew the contract andthey were kind of scrambling going. Oh, my gosh. We only have a run raite foranother three months. What happened nits? It's very it's a very trickybusiness stroke. You want Nartonal Stratocarrin MEMENU and you know, butyour s w your any customers, because that makes ti e. You look good in frontof the besters and it's it can like. I, the ninety five percentfey Ray is not a joke. Yeah! Absolutely so you know. A lot of our listeners arehealth, innovators that are in the trenches. So what advice do you have for them? We'rejust some of the lessons that you've learned along the way that you wouldsuggest for our listeners. Well, I think the Celvino I wantes to Beincruly, honest about where you ware. I was actually the meeting talking about the ethics of meadership last night,COEs O oay. There was one of Uson start up saying you know I have to pretend have to pretend that I'm doing betterthan I am because otherwise, you know investors will say well you'R on evenyour ee that and you have to stretch the limits of what's acceptable, andthen you get people who go completely beon those bounds and start doingrelones and stuff. We seen there's example oteen healthcare enough and Sanouside alcohol. So I think one of the one oss to beg honest about where youare- and I think probably about who you...

...wore as well. So not every company hasto be. You know the next incertain ybe and the next pintrest. They do the nextGoogle right a lot of it. is you build a cool product which it's going to fitfine in a bigger bort, phoni O somebony else's, and there are play o players inhealthcare by small companies and we branhamand and stuff with them? And youknow we mentioned apple winegames before, but you know Octon UnitedBaysitala companies. Nurse done there ware plenty other TEC companies, AFbibe comes, and that made me fine way to exit and get some scale and it maynot be. You know you may not be an ne stem jobs or Mok acka Burger Homeer,but that might be a fine solution, O I think about where you are and what isyour exit and scaling strategy and en maybeit's not to be SOE on your own. So ask the first one, your a n and berealistic about that. Ninety five percent number hat that we discuss. SoI mean that's the that's where my first and the main piece of advice and Imean,the second one e more practical level is there are a lot of people. You know,Tis is sellselling for you and me, Roxy, wet peole can help right know about health. Gainan, you know anddon't be afraid, tof talk to them tell me afraid to get involved inorganizations that that are going to help sort of the OGEL LICO system. An eother contetion, don't get too wrapped up on your own, your own company, yourown internal issues, trying and get rod of yourself, but your team members, a dsuch as you have out to sort of survey, the general, the general amospherebecause less you got to be on you, Gonta beselling goat ta men Wat whatever Beyou, also don't understand that there is awider world out there, which can help you and also we yo can learn a lotabout that. You can bring back to your company, even though it may not bedirectly by the initial problem. You have at Maye ye more wider stuff aboutthe whole health carcosystem. So I think you know we realistic about yourself and T enlook for external advice and feedback, and you know general bebreathing in thegeneral ecosystem. There as ot were oall the things that tear go on anealthgaause of lot, O that yeah. Absolutely I mean I think, it's socomplex and so difficult and a lot of the innovators that I come across thatmaybe have never done it before. They think that they have all the answersand they don't meet any outside expertise. It's the ones that havetried to do it before or the ones that have already done it that are like. Oh,this is not happening like I thought it was going to happen, but at that point you know I mean youstill welcome them right with open arms, but at that point, theyv burned througha lot of resources, a lot and so yeah tapping into someone likeyou know myself, forst, like you early in in that process, is going to savethem a lot of headaches and a lot of money, yeah fect. So by the way, Ithink the other I've noticed Amot is that there's a lot of with one ofgenderbase traits in that Erintens wit. The many won also directions and it'strue a lot of all the thinilse as my Networko up tobe much more so realistic about where they are and what they're doing n youknow interesting. HAV Men Shoul become morefemale in ther thet o look here. I think yeah yeah. Absolutely that's!That's really interesting I'll have to marinate on that a bit. I've never caught that, but I betyou're right. You know and here's the thing you knowjust like anything when you're asking for help or outside expertise, itdoesn't mean that you know that you don't have that you're, not smart, thatyou're not good at what you do. Lessarn he histor tennis has a coach,Yeah Right UK, a Goo T. I mean how many times have youworked with someone that they might have spent? You know six months or moreMullin over their investor deck and you look at it and within fifteen minutesyou're like that's, not clear, that's...

...missing! It mean it's just it's whenyou're in it. You can't see what you can see when you're on the outside yeah.Well. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with our audience today.How can folks get a hold of you if they want to connect with you further, butI'm very easy to find him. As you said, I'm at Bonti, Boin twiller matthew atMathin hold on tets my email and you can find more about smackealt thancontelling partof smack sack dot health oneway ANHBUC othe place. You can findme Goo Gil, Massingol, there's a male model in London. That's me, Andguy FronMountains Awesome! Well! Thank you so much. Iappreciate your insights today, Rosis e Rolbus doing witi until next time.Thank you. What's the difference between launchingand commercializing a health care, novation many people will watch a newproduct. Few will commercialize it to learn the difference between launchand commercialization and to watch past episodes of the show head to our videoshow page at Dr Roxycom. Thank so much for watching and listening to the showyou can subscribe to the latest episodes on your favorite podcast, APPlike apple podcasts and spotify, or subscribe to the video episodes on ourYoutube Channel, no matter the platform just search Coyq with Dr Roxy untilnext time. LET'S RAISE OUR COIQ.

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