Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 1 year ago

How a quick product and market expansion can keep the momentum going w/ Varun Goyal


When momentum is interrupted by a global crisis, it can take the wind out of even a big corporation’s sails, never mind a startup’s.

Sometimes, the trick to keeping momentum going, or at the very least moving in the right direction, could be as simple as a shift in focus. 

Staying open to opportunities that build on a process or product you’ve already developed can be key to unlocking doors that might be closing to other innovators.

In this episode, Varun Goyal talks about his company’s pre-pandemic momentum and changes in focus and target markets that helped see Illuminate Health through the pandemic crisis.

Varun gives our listeners a glimpse into his startup’s strategies and challenges as they actively avoided pilot purgatory in an unpredictable market.   

Here are the show highlights:

  • How a formal pilot and patient information can help you expand your solution (3:12)
  • Why shifting use case focus can help keep momentum going during market disruptions (9:53)
  • One of the most challenging pieces to the commercialization process (13:05)
  • Ways to avoid pilot purgatory (14:52)
  • When a crisis can both slow down momentum - or speed things up (21:27)
  • Add-on solutions - can this be a way in the door when the door is closing? (29:09)
  • What’s important when looking for an advisor (32:13) 

Guest Bio

Varun Goyal is CEO and Co-Founder of Illuminate Health, a digital care assistant for individuals and families that helps simplify healthcare management.

An engineer by background, Varun spent a lot of his career at Oracle in various consulting roles before getting passionate about consumer health.

Varun earned his BS in computer engineering from Illinois State University, MS in computer science from University of Chicago, and his MBA in marketing, management and strategy, and healthcare from Northwestern University, Kellogg School of Management.

If you’d like to reach out to Varun or are looking for additional information on Illuminate Health, you can find him on  LinkedIn at Varun Goyal, email at, at his company’s website Illuminate.Health.

Welcome to Coiq, where you learnhow health innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy, founderof Legacy DNA and international bestselling author of how health innovators maximize market success.Through handed conversations with health innovators, early adoptors and influencers, you'll learn howto bring your innovation from idea to start ups to market domination. And nowlet's jump into the latest episode of Coiq. Welcome back coiq listeners. On today'sepisode I have varoom Goil with me, who is the cofounder and CEO forilluminate health. Welcome to the show, Baroon. Thanks you, Roxey.How you doing? I'm doing great. So let's get started by telling ourlisteners and viewers a little bit about your background and what you've been innovatinglately. Sure. So I'm an engineer. My background and spend a large amountof my career Oracle and various consulting roles. Love Technology and went tobusiness school for health care. Since then I've been working in healthcare, somedical devices, revenue cycle and and then got passionate about consumer health, youknow, and as a lot of a lot of these startups and ideas getstarted as from personal experience. Right. So that's what happened with us when, when my wife and I were pregnant with our first child, we werefortunate in off to avoid a potential miscarriage due to a medication error. Andthat's what I've got me, you know, looking into the field and what's onthe market. So so that's really what we're trying to do here,to illuminate, you know, innovating to make it simple for consumers to reallytake medications safely in the whole environment. So I'm just curious. You know, medicate medication adherents is a, you know, a huge financial burden forthe country and it's also just a really big problem in patient care and there'sa lot of things that have been innovated in the market over the last fewyears. What is it that you know is unique and different about illuminate inthe work that you guys are doing? Yeah, great question. So,so there's a lot of great solutions out there. You know, as yousaid, a lot of people have taken the approach, whether from a froma device and hardware perspective, to to software and so on. You know, we basically narrow down on the pain point of health literacy. And youknow, in all the literature reviews we did and the patient surveys and everythingof that sort, what is highlighted to us was, yes, there's aneed to help adherence, but but really part of the reason why people arenot at hearing is because they just don't know when and how to take theirmedications. Yeah, and you know, when you're at the hospital you don'thave to worry about medication management because the nurse comes to your bedside at theright time, gives you the Right Med at you know, in the rightdose and and so on, whereas at...

...home, you know, you're isolatedand and you don't have that clinical grade resource guiding you in terms of whenis the best time to take them at and you know there's a lot oftechnology out there, but is there something that you can really trust that tosay, Oh, yeah, you know, I'm using this tool. It's donesafety checks for me, it's done the hard work of organizing meds forme, and so all I have to do is follow this and, bythe way, if I want, I can be connected to my family membersfor to that support as well. And that's really the path that we're takingrelative to what's out there. So does that clinical intelligence. It's that guidanceto instill the trust and confidence in the consumer about taking their meds on theirown. So so walk us through what your journey has been like from thetime that you had this idea to where you are in the innovation process now. Maybe some milestones that you were able to accomplish and some hurdles along theway? Sure. So we started our initial kind of research in the twothousand and sixteen time frame and incorporated the company in two thousand and seventeen.You know, we're towards kind of the second half of the year. Westarted building the product, you know, after feeling pretty confident about having doneall the you know studies, literature, reviews and things like that, andthen we had our first prototype early two thousand and eighteen that we started Betatesting and then you refined based on that. And we were fortunate enough to havea you know, collaboration partner in Indiana University health. So we dida formal pilot with them and and actually they helped us think about our productin a more holistic manner because, you know, they were really focused onaddiction recovery and and so we actually did a formal pilot with them, youknow, as part of their intensive outpatient program and, you know, showedsome really good patient engagement and the staff was really excited about the product.So so that also was a great milestone for us because it helped us iteratebased on the feedback from patients, in a more formal manner as compared tothe Beta testing we done on our own. And and, like I said,it helped us expand kind of our talk process and, you know,thankfully that pilot made it possible for us to expand to two more of theirlocations. So that's been a great milestone for us and honestly, you know, the end of the day our mission is to help the consumer know whento do something, what to do and how to do it. We didthat for medications and then now with, you know, our work in addictionrecovery, we're trying to, you know, be a little bit more prescriptive around. Well, it's time for you to do your spiritual reading, oryou should look up and a or smart...

...recovery meeting in your neighborhood to getthat social interaction. Or if you're reporting high level of anxiety to us,we can maybe suggest a meditation you can do within the APP. So it'sto really making it a toolbox off resources for the person at home meeting thatselfcare. That's incredible, especially with the you know, the mental health issuesthat you know have been so prevalent for so long but that are really seemedto be increasing significantly, you know, since the pandemic at least, it'scome into light more. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah, and that's one of thechallenge does right. So, you know, we basically have been talkingabout how the the open crisis is not gone away, right, and andto your point, you know, different types of addiction. That only increasedover time as people have been a NICEO elation. So so, yes,definitely happy to be able to mention that on your show as well. Yeah, yeah, I've heard liquor sales is sky rocketed since the pandemic. Contributingfacts, right, the first to admit we certainly have drink it. Drinka lot more wine in the last couple of months. That's for it,or so so it sounds like. So how let's kind of dig it alittle bit into you know, did you go into this with a specific usecase, because it sounds like you had a whole lot of different target audiencesthat you could choose from. So I'm wondering if you chose your specific usecase before you got to your pilot or that the pilot engagement kind of helpedyou determine where you would focus your your target market strategy. First Yeah,great question. So honestly, when we started out, we start out withjust a simple mindset. Off What can be built that can be valuable toa consumer, you know, the average bough in helping them with managing medications, and then, as we started thinking more about, you know, whatshould be our business strategy and business model, you know, how do we getthe get that adoption? You know, directed consumer of force is ideal,but that's a tough road for even big companies, let alone startups,especially in the healthcare space. And we definitely wanted that clinical validation because atthe end of the day, you know, we are a clinical, you knowproduct, if you will given them. You know, we manage medications atyou know, at the end of the day, and and so that'swhere we knew we were going to go to the the health systems. Soso, having said that, the use case really from a health system perspective, as you know, is to enable better care management with that, youknow, monitoring, real time intervention possibility to be able to prevent the readmissionwhich may arise from adverse events or medication on adherence. Yeah, so workingwithout your health. I mean, you know, from a public health crisisperspective, the the opiated crisis was kind of on our radar because, atthe end of the day, we set out to help people and and soit was really a good parallel, if... will. But on the otherhand, as we talked more about it, you know, we had built thisbroad platform for for medication management where, whether you had a chronic, chroniccondition or two or now with mental health issues, you know, atthe end of the day, the common denominator was medications. You know,and when we looked at the addiction population, fifty percent of people suffering from substitutesdisorder are taking at least one chronic met. Majority of them have ahistory of mental illness for which they might be taking psychotropic drugs. Right now, Matt therapy is getting more popular, you know, Medication Assistant Treatments.You know, we found that our medication management engine actually becomes even more valuableso, so we have started looking at substance use disorder as one of ourfirst disease specific plays off kind of this broad, comprehensive platform. So sonow, as we look forward, you know, the mental health component,like you said, is getting more and more common in care models. Right. Everyone's talking about integrating primary care with with mental health and so on.So so I think that's kind of the direction where, you know, webecome the the one spot for a consumer, patient, a member to manage allof that in one holistic tool. Sure. So, so, asyou thought about again, kind of not necessarily the user or the use case. But who's going to pay for this? Help our viewers and listeners just kindof hear your journey on, you know, looking at maybe hospital systemsversus physician practices, versus farm a market or specialty pharmacy. You know,what was some of those things that you were analyzing and making that decision onyour business modeling and who you were, you know, expecting to pay forit? Yeah, and that's a tough one, right. I mean partof the biggest challenge a healthcare entrepreneur has is, okay, who's my targetcustomer, like you said, because you know on the one hand, youknow the the world is open to you in terms of what you want tosell to. So that remains me a challenge, like for everyone else.You know, on the one hand you want to be opportunistic, but onthe other, I mean you just can't spread yourself to thin right. Soyeah, so, given the we start out on the health system side forthe initial validation, you know, right in you to push in that direction. Obviously, you know, with with covid nineteen, you know, hittingearly this year, you know that' slow down a little bit because health systems, you know, as you know, went into survival mode to somebody Clareon fire. Yeah. So, so from that perspective, you know we, given we were working with the addiction population anyway, you know, weshifted our focus a little bit to more of the independent addiction for abilities thatwere scrambling to, you know, deliver... But you know now virtuallyand as well as some of the social service organizations that you know, aretrying to have an impact and maybe just don't have enough resources. So sothat's where we decided to focus on in the short term, just so wecould, you know, keep some of the momentum going from a from acompany perspective, but but also, you know, get keep the adoption goingnow as we as we look forward, you know, some of those healthsystem conversations or start to pick back up right where we are positioning ourselves,you know, not only as a discharge and a population health management tool,but but also as health systems prepare for the second wave, potentially right nineteencases, this becomes a great way for their patients to start reporting and trackingon symptoms and getting in touch with a clinician and the health system to havethat initial treat you know, should I be coming to the ear and riskinfection? Should I? You know. So. So that's how we arenow positioning ourselves. As you know, you can get started now, havethe initial value, but then have the longer term, you know, valueprop which is always there, but also looking into some of the you know, more pair aspects off the industry where, you know, health plans, includingselfinshort employers, are really trying to scramble and figure out, you know, how do we get more health and wellness tools into people's hands. Soso, you know, exploring some of those aspects. But yes, thatremains a challenge, like it does with with a lot of us. Soyou know that you might have kind of unknowingly even answered this question, butI'm going to ask. So is, as an you know, innovator andthe cofounder of the company, would's the most challenging piece of the commercialization processor, you know, going from an idea to adoption with paying customers?Yeah, I think I think there's a couple of different challenges. I thinkone is definitely the focus, like we've discussed. I think the bigger challengeto something we given, you know, the healthcare industry that we have inthis country. You know full of regulation and you know entrenched interests and soon. It's just hard to get your foot in the door in a lotof cases to have someone you know take that chance on you, if youwill. And so what ends up being a chicken and chicken or the eggtype situation is you might go talk to a big company and you know theylove what you are doing, but then they want to see results first.You know, have you done outcome studies? Have you done this? And youknow that's that's tough for startups to do. You know that's costly.You know you go to an average academic... system. You know, youmight need a budget of a couple of hundred thousand dollars to do an outcomestudy, which may or may not work out. So so I think thoseare some of the initial you know challenges where, you know, everyone triesto you know utilize kind of friends family networks right to try and get come, yea going and really find those early partners. Hmm Yeah, yeah,I always you know, recommend that clients think about, you know, tyingsales to the back end of those pilot agreements because you know, even ifyou've got the data that, like you said, there's a lot of time, there's a lot of money that's going into it. So, you know, doing some type of shared expense model so that way the you know,the entrepreneur is not having to carry the entire burden, right, and thenalso that tied to you know, hey, if x, Y and Z happens, can I get your commitment up front that you're going to roll thisout and Xway? You know, sometimes we get so excited about you know, whatever hospital system said Yes to a pilot that I say like we kindof get a little woo woo and it's like, oh my gosh, gamechanger and it can be actually a death trap. Yeah, right. Andso if it's, if we don't do it right with those strategies and tactmix up front with something that looked like a really good thing can actually turninto something that can be a challenge. Or that's exactly right, because thingshappen. You know, leadership changes can happen in that time frame, orthe market can change. You know, Cowa can happen, right, aglobal pandemic happen. What are the odds of that? Yeah, I mean, you know. And what is that? Death by a thousand pilots to youname it right. Yeah, I call it pilot purgatory. You know, when they get stuck in the pilot and you know, I've heard itjust even in, you know, metropolitan areas, where you might get apilot with one big hospital system and you're like yes, this is it,and you go to the next hospital system like five miles down the street andthey're like yeah, but we need to do a pilot and you're like,Oh, I'm so glad you asked, because we did one five miles downthe way and here's the data, and they'll like yeah, but our patientpopulation is different, you know, like, Oh my gosh, delicious cycle whereyou know, okay, where are you gonna? Right, right,yeah, oh my goodness, what a crazy ride. Right. Hey,it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Are you tryingto figure out what moves you need to make to survive and thrive in thenew covid economy? I want every health innovator to find their most viable andprofitable pivot strategy, which is why I created the covid proof your business pivotkid. The pivot kit is a step by step framework that helps you findyour best pivot strategy. It walks you through six categories you need to examinefor a three hundred and sixty degree view...

...of your business. I call themthe six critical pivot lenses. As you make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to makesure you can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details and opportunities.Learn more at legacy type and Bacom backslash kit. So what has been thebiggest win for you since you got started? Where you kind of look back inretrospective and you're like wow, this was a game changing decision. MaybeI didn't see it at the moment, but when I look back, thisreally was a game changer for us. Hmm, I think so a broadanswer. Maybe you know from a from a personal perspective, you know,always was innovation minded and entrepreneur. Having work at a big companies, alwaystook the approach of being an entrepreneur as yeah, yeah, so have justthoroughly enjoyed the opportunity to be in entrepreneur and work on something like this.I think what's been really fulfilling as been to to actually hear from some ofthe patients who utilized our product and and see that, you know, theyderive value from it. You know they've benefited from it and it made theirlife easier. You know, whether it's ten percent easier, you know,total one, one thing off their to do list for the day right,whatever it might to being able to kind of coach and mentor a lot morepeople along the way, whether you know folks who kind of work with usor we you know, we just came in contact with so I think thoseare some of the things that have been been really fulfilling. Yeah, that'sgreat. I could have used your solution the last couple of weeks. SoI'm a caretaker for my ninety one year old grandmother and she's just started experiencingsome pain in the last week. Called a doctor, we did a videovisit. My Grandmother's pretty excited about that and she really likes it actually,and we and we got a prescription for her and it she was so sickand so nauseous and I in so she'd stop taking the medication and she'd ratherexperienced the excruciating pain than be nauseous and be sick from it. And cometo find out today it which I mean, and I kind of feel like Iwas neglecting her, that I didn't even know this, but she wassupposed to take it with food or eat before she took it. And soyou know, the doctor never said that, or if he did, I didn'thear it and I didn't read it on the little tiny, you know, information that comes with it when I picked up her script. And soyou know she was she was had to take a like a preselect because soI knew it could upset the stomach, but she was already taken another prescriptionmedicine with it to make sure that it didn't happen. So anyway, Icould have totally used your tool, or still can use your to help menavigate this season with her. Yeah,...

...and I can completely, you know, understand that scenario and I appreciate you bringing that up, because that's exactly, you know, why you've done what you've done and the approach you've taken, because you know whether, even if it's, you know, folks tourlet's say, educated and, like you said, they're they're reading the leaflets, but still, I mean there's a lot to process and and there needsto be a simpler way to just have that be done for you. Yeah, you know, I ked you not. I was on a flighte coming backfrom San Francisco, maybe this was the the last one I took thisyear, and the flight attendant, you know, just was really friendly andjust we start talking and and she basically said she'd been taking a tyrode medicationfor ten years and no result was coming off of it and for whatever reason, no one told her actually needed to be taken on in MP stomach firstthing in the morning. And and I'm just like, you know what,that's why we're doing. What would we do? Yeah, because little things, but the but there, there might be a tiny piece of information,but can be very valuable game changer and care. Yeah, I mean mypersonal favorite has been, you know, tipper flox a said right. It'sa standard antibiotic that, you know, you take for Braun killed infections orwhatever else. I was prescribed that at some point while researching this product,and I did sit and read through the leaflet. Yeah, as soon asI got past the suicidal toughts and you know, I saw that, oh, the drug molecule from Sibro buinds to calcium in food and hence the shouldbe taken a minimum of two hours before or after a meal. And I'mlike, why would no one tell me that, you know, taking this, you know, or five days already. So, but any case, it'sthings like that that, yeah, make the difference. Yeah, completely. So let's talk about this global pandemic. How, you know, it's reallyimpacted companies in different ways. You know, some of them have kindof assessed the changing market conditions and it's either created incredible opportunity or it's beena huge roadblock in different aspects of the business, and sometimes it's a combinationof the two. It's challenges, you know, in in sales. Nowwe move to virtual sales. Oh my gosh, now we need to adaptour sales strategy and it could be, you know, doors clothes for ouryou know, target market for a season or maybe for much longer, andwe need to look at another target market segment to pursue. So kind ofjust walk us through what that's been like for you? Yeah, you betso. It's definitely been a you know, a bump in the road to kindof have this global pandemic, you know, let land up here.So we feel like we had a lot of good momentum leading up to kindof you know early March, which which definitely slowed down tremendously. Yeah,so, so that was definitely challenging and, of course, just like a lotof other you know, startups, to be looked into a lot ofthe government funding mechanisms and so on to...

...just stay afloat. But at thesame time, what we did notice was that the existing utilization off our product, you know, went up because, you know, you think about thepatients that we have on the substitutes disorder side, you know, most ofthem being really motivated and and not letting the pandemic kind of, you know, grab them down. Actually, we're maximizing all the tools available to themto to stay on track with recovery. So, you know, even thoughI kind of mentally, emotionally was was a little bit low and you knowthe early days, but when I saw that take place, I mean thatwas motivational, you know, that was inspiring. Yeah, and and thenwe started, you know, as the new reimbursement codes for tell a healthbecame available. Yeah, actually for the virtual check in that you visit.You know, we decided to try and kind of align ourselves with that tosome degree, even though, you know, we had never thought of ourselves askind of a traditional telehealth product, right, because we don't do videoconsoles. Right. We do offer text messaging as a communication mechanism, alongwith real time alerts and notifications, but it made us kind of think aboutit and maybe a more accelerated manner than originally we were thinking, you know, we would do. So so I think that's kind of some of thelearning and you know, what we did to to kind of adapt to thenew landscape. So so now, like I said, you know, thankfully, you know some of the conversations initially are picking back up, along withsome of the newer market segments. I think hospitals are are definitely planning on, you know, what their overall telehealth strategy needs to be, because,you know, it's here to stay right, right, right the what's what peopleare trying to figure out is, you know, so now telehealth adoptionwent up, but then was it the adoption in terms of just getting accessto someone right away? Now that things are opening back up and your ownprovider maybe has become telehealth capable, will you actually go back to your ownprovider? And so then this you know, new growth that took place is actuallygoing to, you know, kind of subside over time. So theseare some of the things people are trying to figure out, along with theprivacy and other aspects. But but yeah, I mean that's kind of how weare thinking about it, as I think that the physicians, what I'mwhat I'm hearing and seeing even first hand, you know, with my grandmother's experience, is the ones that weren't necessarily tell a health practices before that haveadapted to that just because of the covid crisis, whether they like it,because they're getting compensated financially for it now or not. Still having this hybridmodel seems to be a challenge where if they were all virtual or where theywere all physical, that it would be...

...a little bit easier for them thantrying to navigate the waters of both at the same time. You know,the doctor that I was seeing was, you know, forty five minutes late, and to me that's unacceptable in a virtual environment, whereas that would bereally normal in a regular facetoface office visit. But so he's juggling someone that hasa video visit but a facetoface patient before us that you know, you'renot going to just go hey, we got to wrap it up right.You know, you do your patient care. So it's I think it's just Iagree with you. I think that it's here to say and I thinkthat, you know, over the next few months, the next year orso, we will start to figure out what what those hybrid models look likeand how tools like yours fits in and kind of helps with that that modelof care. Absolutely. I mean, you know, our value prop honestly, is the care continuum. Yeah, so, you know, Premy Care, the specialist you see and so on. You know, at the end ofthe day, having all your information one place and having the tool guideyou along the long after, as compared to this transactional or episodic model.Agree. But yeah, I mean I think you know, to your point, I had a telehealth consult it was it was great. You know,I was not having to commute to the doctor's office, I did not haveto wait in a waiting room where, thankfully, might be getting infected atsomething lately. Yeah, and you know, it took maybe ten minuthness of mytime. And so the CONMEDIANS factor, it's definitely there, you know.And and in my case it was my own provider. So so thatwas the other you know. So I anyway, yeah, that makes sense. So I wonder, you know, has so there's so many different changes. I think that, you know, health innovators can be examining during thisthe changes in the market conditions. Has Anything changed from your perspective from apartnership and alliance opportunities that might be a shift or a game changer for youin your commercialization strategy going forward? Is that something that you've you thought aboutyet or not yet? So I think you know. So definitely potential partnershipconversations are always ongoing, you know. So for us the partners could be, you know, pop health or disease management vendors who have kind of youknow it and be module and we can provide the the rest of the solutionto to really getting to some of those providers where we can be the technologyplatform to enable the care management. So I mean, you know, we'recontinuing along the same conversations. I wouldn't say that, you know, thethe new landscape has has changed anything too much, except to say that thatmaybe the need, like we were talking from until health perspective has just,you know, gotten accelerated and people just...

...had to scramble and and adapt.So something that was going to take maybe a decade now is here already ina paird of, you know, three months. So I think that's goingto be good because for us, you know, on more on the medicationmanagement side, now, you know we can accelerate the virtual medication therapy managementservices side of things and so on. So so I think those are someof the conversations that that have maybe sped up a little bit. Yeah,yeah, I'm just curious. One of the things that comes to mind is, you know, the the hospital systems their hairs on fire, you know, if their attention is on things like tell a health. Is it viable, you know, for you as maybe as as well as maybe other listenersand viewers, to partner with those tele health companies to be an add onsolution and using that as like a distribution channel for your solution, especially inthe intern where the hospital systems might not be paying as much attention for newopportunities where they might be able to get in the door while you or otherhealth innovators can't? Yeah, great, great question. Definitely something we've beenthinking about and exploring. So so I think there's maybe two different ways ofapproaching this, you know. So one is to go to, you know, a tell health mender, you know, with it's an American well and belive, you know, and others to, like you said right, you know, in integrate with them and then kind of go to market. Yeah, I think there's there's value there, especially the ones that have more ofa primary care, you know, aspect of it. Because, you know, for the most part, if you're doing a transactional video constolets, youknow, to replace an urgent care visit. You know, are you really lookingat, you know, getting a tool for for managing men's and thingslike that potentially. You know, I don't want to say there isn't aneed there, but I think, you know, and then you look atthe other side where health systems, you know, like we were talking,are adding those capabilities themselves to offer video consult services. So so I thinkas part of a broad virtual care, tell and health strategy with a healthsystem's definite alignment where, you know, with a vendor that does video consoles, you know, they're kind of part of the portfolio. And then wecover the patient self care and and other communication aspects of it. So sothose are some of the ways we're kind of segmenting that heart process as aswe move forward. Okay, excellent. So what are the biggest opportunities foryou in the future? What's on the horizon for eliminate health? You know, it's going to be an exciting year. One way or the other. Italready has been, right. So so we're looking forward to our,you know, new advisors that have just...

...come on board. So so reallyjust honored and thankful to have such a great team to help, you know, be the be the wind beneath our wings and, you know, toactually believe in US and and one of be a part of our journey.So so that's really exciting. I think the other aspect is to, youknow, start doing planning for a potential fund race. So it's going tobe our first you know, kind of a seed round, if you will. Yeah, apart from just, you know, more traction and more impacton patients. Yeah, that's great. So the advisors. So, youknow, again kind of taken in consideration our listeners. You know what,what's important? What to look for an advisor? You know, maybe somethingthat we might might not be on our rate already. You know what?Yeah, yeah, I mean I think at the end of the day,you want to, you know, look for people that that believe in whatyou're doing and and actually are passionate about this same space, if you will. And then, you know, you've to take a look at existing capabilitieson the team. Yeah, you know, and and then see how you canaugment what what's already part of the team. And and so, youknow, we took that same approach and, you know, essentially we're talking toa lot of different people and, you know, decided to decide thatthe fit was was correct, you know, with with three people we just broughton board and and now, you know, have a couple more ofthose conversations going because we you know, we still have room to grow.So say, those would be some of the ways to think about this.Yeah, I mean I think that the advisors, you know, that youwork with, play such a critical role. I call it like a thinking partner. You know, they're external to the company. They see things thatyou don't see. So, besides the the networking, the introductions that areusually really can be game changers for the commercialization strategy, but also, youknow, being able to be that thinking partner, because for an entrepreneur,in a lot of ways, even when you have a team, it canbe a low, very lonely endeavor, right and you know, as astart up you've got a limited amount of resources and you know you, mostof us, can't afford and don't want to afford to make the wrong decisionsalong the way. I mean, of course nothing's going to be perfect.You will always adapt, but really being able to have that thinking partner,to wrestle with those ideas, to kind of figure out what's going to bethe most viable and profitable path, I think, is just so important.That's exactly right. Yes, and I mean, you know, the endof the day, you're going to work with people your joy working with,you know, because, yeah, I mean with one of the advisors recently, I must have sounded not, as you know, myself, and soyou know, he literally said it's all right, you know, will getthere. Yeah, because it's it's an...

...artist journey. And Yeah, sosome days you need advice and wisdom and some days you just need some encouragement, inspiration, right. Yeah, so, you know, thank you so muchfor your time today. Before we wrap up, what are some lessonslearned or some words of wisdom that you would want to share, advice thatyou want to share with our listeners and viewers? So I would say foranyone who's exploring entrepreneurship, you know, definitely don't don't let any of thisscare you away. It's a worthy career path. It's definitely, you know, a way you can have really high level of impact and and learn alot, honestly. So, so definitely, you know, happy to obviously talkto anyone who's exploring that. So feel free to reach out. Youknow, I think apart from that, some of the learnings that you've hadalong the course of the way are, you know, what what I've beenreading about recently as well, which is, you you want to find the rightteam to start with and look for, you know, the complementary capabilities inyour core team and of course you already talked about the advisor side,but then also, you know, keep enough of a focus from a marketperspective as your heads down building your product as well, because you know,not only is it crucial to have user input into, you know, let'ssay, a screen that you're designing, but it's also really crucial to havethat you know, business aspect always, you know, out there. SoI'd think those would be some of the you know, kind of piece ofadvice as people think through this awesome. So how can people get Ahold ofyou roun if they do want to follow up with you after the show?Yeah, obviously you know Linkedin and you know, following your show, myemail addressed is vg at illuminated dot health, so happy to you know, bereached there. Our website, obviously, is illuminated dot help. So youknow, feel free to check us out and thank you for having meon the show. Yeah, thank you for being a guest today. You'rebad. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy working to bringyour life changing innovation to market and I value your time and your attention. To save time and get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automaticallysubscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify andstitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who's been sharing the showwith friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Coiq.

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