Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 1 year ago

How a quick product and market expansion can keep the momentum going w/ Varun Goyal

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

When momentum is interrupted by a global crisis, it can take the wind out of even a big corporation’s sails, never mind a startup’s.

Sometimes, the trick to keeping momentum going, or at the very least moving in the right direction, could be as simple as a shift in focus. 

Staying open to opportunities that build on a process or product you’ve already developed can be key to unlocking doors that might be closing to other innovators.

In this episode, Varun Goyal talks about his company’s pre-pandemic momentum and changes in focus and target markets that helped see Illuminate Health through the pandemic crisis.

Varun gives our listeners a glimpse into his startup’s strategies and challenges as they actively avoided pilot purgatory in an unpredictable market.   

Here are the show highlights:

  • How a formal pilot and patient information can help you expand your solution (3:12)
  • Why shifting use case focus can help keep momentum going during market disruptions (9:53)
  • One of the most challenging pieces to the commercialization process (13:05)
  • Ways to avoid pilot purgatory (14:52)
  • When a crisis can both slow down momentum - or speed things up (21:27)
  • Add-on solutions - can this be a way in the door when the door is closing? (29:09)
  • What’s important when looking for an advisor (32:13) 

Guest Bio

Varun Goyal is CEO and Co-Founder of Illuminate Health, a digital care assistant for individuals and families that helps simplify healthcare management.

An engineer by background, Varun spent a lot of his career at Oracle in various consulting roles before getting passionate about consumer health.

Varun earned his BS in computer engineering from Illinois State University, MS in computer science from University of Chicago, and his MBA in marketing, management and strategy, and healthcare from Northwestern University, Kellogg School of Management.

If you’d like to reach out to Varun or are looking for additional information on Illuminate Health, you can find him on  LinkedIn at Varun Goyal, email at vg@illuminate.health, at his company’s website Illuminate.Health.

Welcome to Coiq, where you learn howhealth innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy,founder of Legacy, DNA and international feth selling author ofhow health innovators maximize market success through canded conversationswith health, innovators earlier doctors and influencers you'll learn how tobring your innovation from idea to start up to market domination, and now,let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq. Welcome back to Youyq listeners.On today's episode, I have Baroon Goyle with me: Who's the CO founder and CEOfor illuminate health. Welcome to the show Varoon thanks Roxy how you doingI'm doing great. So, let's get started by telling our listeners and viewers alittle bit about your background and what you've been innovating lately sure. So I'm an engineer my backgroundand spend a large amount of my career Oracle and various consulting roles.bloke technology and you know, went to business cool, fore health care. Sincethen, I've been working in healthcareand, so medical devices, revecycle and and then got astion about consumer health. You know and as a lotof a lot of these startups and ideas, get started as from personal experienceright. So Thatso, that's what happened with us when, when my wife and I werepregnant with our first child, we were fortunate enough to avoid a potentialmiscarriage due to a mediccation error. And that's what got me. You knowlooking into the field and what's on the market, so so that's really whatwe're trying to do here illuminate you know, innovating, to make it simple forconsumers to really take medications safely in the home environment. So I'mjust curious. You know, medicat medication, adherents is a you know, ahuge financial burden for the country, and it's also just a really big problemand patient care and there's a lot of things that havebeen innovated in the market over the last few years. What is it that youknow is unique and different about illuminate ind? The work that you guysare doing yeah great question, so so there's a lot of great solutions outthere. You know, as you said, a lot of people have taken the approach, whetherfrom from a device and hardward perspective to sofftware and so on. Youknow we basically narrow down on the painpoint of Health Literacy, and youknow in all the literature reviews we did and the patient surveys andeverything of that sort. What is highlighted to us was yes, there's aneed to help. I terance, but but really part of the reason why people are notadhearing is because they just don't know when and how to take theirmedicacations yeah. You know when you're at the hospital. You don't haveto worry about medication management, because the nurse comes to your bedsideat the right time gives you the right men at you know in the right dose andso on, whereas at home you know, you're,...

...isolated and- and you don't have thatClinical Grad resource guiding you in terms of when it's the best time totake them at, and you know, there's a lot of technology out there, but isthere something that you can really trust to say? Oh Yeah, you know I'm usingthis tool, it's done safety checks. For me, it's done the hard work oforganizing mets for me, and so all I have to do is follow this and by theway, if I want, I coul be connected to my family members forr to that support as well,and that's really the path that we're taking relative to what's out there. Sothis that clinical intelligence is that guidance. There's still the trust, indconfidence in the consutumor about taking their metts on their own, so sowalk us through what your journey has been like from the time that you hadthis idea, you, where you are in the innovation process now, maybe somemilestones that you were able to accomplish and some hurdles along theway sure so we started our initial Yot, knowkind of research in the O, thwsn sixteen time frame and incorporated thecompany in two thousand and seventeen. You know where, towards kind of thesecond half of the year we started building the product. You know, afterfeeling, pretty confident about. Having done all the you know, studies,literature, reviews and things like that, and then we had our first prototype early, two thousand and eighteen, that we started biggito testing. Andthen we were fine based on that and we were fortunate enough to have a youknow: Collaboration partner in Indiana, university helt. So we did a formalpilot with them an and actually they helped us think about our product in amore polistic manner, because you know they were really focused on addiction,recopany and and so we actually did a formal pilot with them. You know aspart of their intensive outpatient program and you know, showed somereally good. Patient engagement and the staff was really excited about theproduct. So so that also was a great milestone for us because it helped usiterate based on the feet butbact from patients in a more formal manner ascompared to the Bay tof testing be done on our own and and like I said ithelped us expand kind of far the talk process, and you know, thankfully, thatpilot made I possible for us to expand to to more of their locations. Sothat's been a great milestone for us and honestly, you know at the end ofthe day, our mission is to help the consumer know when to do something,what to do and how to do it, Wedid that for medications and then now with youknow our work in addiction, recovery, we're trying to you know be a littlebit more prescriptive around well, it's time for you to do your spiritualreading or you should look up and AA or...

...smart ercovery meeting in yourneighborhood to get that social interaction or if you're, reportinghigh level of anxiety to us, we can maybe suggest a meditation you can dowithin the APP. So it's to really making it a tool box of resources forthe person at home meeting that self care. That's incredible, especiallywith the you know, the mental health issues that you know have been soprevalent for so long, but that are really seem to be increasingsignificantly. You know, since the pandemic, at least it's comingto lightmore yeah, absolutely yeah, and and that's one of the challengees right, soyou know we. We basically have been talking about how the the Oka crisis isnot gone away. Right and and to your point, you know different types ofaddiction Hav only increased over time as people have been a nice selolation.So so yes definitely happy to be able to mention that, on your show as well,yeah yeah, yeah, I've heard liquor, say this Ky rocketen since the pandemic, contributing FA o admit we certainly have drink itdrink a lot more wine in the last couple of months. That's Fi tore. So so it sounds like so h. let's kindof dig I a little bit into you know. Did you go into this with a specific use case, because itsounds like you had whole lot of different target audiences that youcould choose from. So I'm wondering if you chose your specific usecase beforeyou got to your pilot or that the pilot engagement, kind of helped, youdetermine where you would focus youryour target market strategy. FirstYeah great question. So honestly, when we started out, we start out with justa simple mindset off what can be built that can be valuable to consume. Youknow the average sho N in helping them with managing mediccations and then, aswe started thinking more about you know what should be our business fratagy andin business model. You know how we get the get that adoption. You know.Directe consumer offource is ideal, but that's a tough road for even bigcompanies, let alone start up, especially in the healthcare space, andwe definitely wanted that clinical validation, because at the end of theday you know we are a clinical. You know product if you will given thet.You know we manage medications at you know at the end of the day, and and sothat's where we knew were going to go to the health system. So so having saidthat, the use case really from a health system perspective, as you know, is toenable better care management with that you know, monitoring, grilltimeintervention possibility to be able to prevent the readmission which may arisefrom adverse events or omedication on adperance yeah. So working without you,health, I mean you know from a public health crises perspective. The theOPIAD crisis was kind of on our radar, because, at the end of the day we setout to help people,...

...and- and so it was really a goodparallel if you will, but on the other hand, as we talked more about it, youknow we had built this broad platform for for Medication Management Whethher,whether you had a chronic, chronic condition or to or now with mentalhealth issues. You know at the end of the day, the commentent denominator wasmedications. You know and Whet we looked at the addictionpopulation. Fifty percent of people suffering from on substitutes disorderare taking at least one chronic met. Majority of them have a history ofmental illness for which they might be taking psychocropic drugs. My now mattherapy is getting more popular, Youtnow Medication Assistant Treatments.You know we found that ourmedication management engine actually becomes evenmore valuable. So so we have started looking at substance use disorder asone of our first disease specific plays off kind of this broad comprehensiveplatform. So so now, as we look forward, you know, the mental health componant,like you said, is getting more and more common and carelaudials right,everyone's talking about integrating primary care with with mental healthand so on. So so, I think that's kind of the direction where you know webecome t h, the one spot for a consumer patient, a member to manage all of thatin one molistic tool, sure so so, as you thought about again kind of not necessarily the useror the use case, but who's going to pay for this help, our viewers and listeners justkind of hear your journey on you know looking at maybe hospital systemsversus physician practices versus Farmar market or specialty pharmacy.You know what was some of those things that you were analyzing and making thatdecision on your business modeling and who you were you know expecting to payfor it yeah and that's a tough one right I mean part of the biggestchallenge th health contrepreneur has is okay who's. My target customer, likeyou, said because you know: On the one hand, you know the the world is open toyou in terms of wha you want to sell to so so that remains o me a challengelike for everyone else. You know. On the one hand you want to beopportinistic, but on the other I mean you just can't spread yourself to thinright so yeah. So, given the we starte out on the health system side for theinitial validation, you know I continued to push in that direction. Obviouslyyou know Wi h with coid nineteen. You know hitting early this year. You know that slowdown a little bitbecause health systems, you know is, you know, went into survival mot tosomeding care on fire yeah. So so, from that perspective you know we given wewere working with the addiction population. Anyway, you know we shiftedour focus a little bit to more of the Independent Addiction. fesibilitiesthat was Ramlic to you know, deliver...

...care, but you know now virtually and as well as some of the socialsurface organizations that you know are trying to have an impact, and maybe just don't have enoughresources. So so that's where we decided to focus on in the short term.Just so you could, you know, keep some the momentum going from Upron compyperspective, but but also you know, get keep the adoption going. Now as we aswe look forwrd, you know some of those health system conversations arestarting to pickback up right where we are positioning ourselves. You know notonly as a discharge, an a population, health management tool, but but also,though, as heall systems prepare for the second way, potentially right. Inineteen cases. This becomes a great way for their patiencs to startreporting and tracking on symptoms and getting in touch with the Clinisian andthe health system. To have that initial Treebach, you know, should I be comingto the ER and risk infection should I you know so so that's how we are nowpositioning ourselves. As you know, you can get started now. Have the initiablevalue but then have the longer term. You know value prop, which is alwaysthere, but also looking into some of the you know more pair aspects off theindustry. Where you know health plans, including selfinsured employers, arereally trying to scramble and figure out. You know how do we get more healthandvelness tools into people's hands? So so you know exploring some of thoseaspects, but yes, that remains a challenge like Yot does with with a lotof us. So you know that you might have kind of unknowingly even answered thisquestion, but I'm going to ask so, as as an you know, innovator and thecofounder of the company would would the most challenging pece of thecommercialization process, or you know going from an idea to adoptionwith payin customers yeah. I think I think, there's a couple of differentchallenges. I think one is definitely the the focus like yediscussed. I think the bigger challenge to something wegiven you know the healthcare industry that we have in this country. You knowfull of regulation and you know and trenchd interests and so on. It's just hard to get your foot in thedoor in a lot of cases to have someone you know, take that chance on you. If you willand so what ends up being a chicken and chicken or the e type situation is, youmight go talk to a big company and, and you know they love what you are doingbut then want to see results first, you know,have you done outcome studies? Have you done this and you know that's that'stough for startup to do you know it was that's costly. You know you go to anaverage ACODEMIC health system. You...

...know you might need a budget of acouple of hundred thousand dollars to do an outcome, study which may or maynot work out. So so I think those are some of the initial. You knowchallenges where you know everyone tries to you, knowutilize kind of friends, family network right to try and get com at going andreally find those early partners. Yeah Yeah. I always you know, recommend that clients think about. You know tying sales tothe back end of those pilot agreements, because you know, even if you got thedata that, like you said, there's a lot of time, there's a lot of money, that'sgoing into it, so you know doing some type of shared expense model.So that way, the you know the entrepreneur is not having to carry theentire burden right and then also that tied to you know hey if XY NZ happens,can I get your commitment up front that you're going to roll this out in Xway?You know sometimes we get so excited about. You know whatever hospitalsystem said Yes to a pilot that I say like we kind of get a little Wuo d,it's like Oh, my gosh game, changer and, and it can be actually a death trapright, and so, if we don't do it right with thosestrategies and tactics, upfront with something that look like a really goodthing can actually turn into something that can be a challenge or th t exactlyright, because things happen, you know leadership. Changes can happen in thattime frame or the market can change. You Know Coi an happen right, a globalbandemic, a one of the odds of Thatyeah. I mean you know, and what is that debtsby a thousand pilots to you name it right, m yeah. I call it pilotpurgatory. You know when they get stuck in the pilot, and you know I've heardit just even in you know metropolitan areas where you might get a pilot withone big hospital system and you're like yes, this is it hen. You go to the nexthospital system like five miles down the street and they're like yeah, butwe need to do a pilot and you're like. Oh, I'm so glad you ask, because we didone five miles down the way and here's the date and they're like yeah, but ourpatient population is different. Ou, like Oh, my Gosh gothe vicious cycle. Where you know,okay, where do you get right right? Yeah? Oh, my goodness, what a crazyride right! Hey! It's Dr Roxy, here with a quick break from theconversation, are you trying to figure out what moves you need to make tosurvive and thrive in the new covid economy? I want every health innovatorto find their most viable and profitable timit Travegy, which is whyI created the covid proof, your business to the kid. The pipokit is astep by step framework that helps you find your best tivid strategy. It walksyou through six categories. You need to...

...examine for a three hundred and sixtydegree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses, asyou make your way through this comprehensive kid, you'll be armed withthe tools, tips and strategies you need to make sure you can pivit with speedwithout missing out on critical details and opportunities, learn more at legacy:Tythan BNACOM Backla Kit. So what has been the biggest win foryou since you got started where you kind of look back in retrospective andyou're like wow? This was a game changing decision- maybe I didn't seeit at the moment, but when I look back, this really was a game changer for us. I think so a broad answer. Maybe you know from afrom a personal perspective. You know always was innovation minded and I'mtriping around having worked at big companies alwaystook the approach of being an intrepreneur as Yah yeah, so have just furrly enjoyed theopportunity being on apener and work on something like this. I think, what's been really fulfillinghas been to actually hear from some of the patients who yutilized our productand see that you know th theyre, I value from it. You know they benefitedfrom it and it made their life easier. You know whether it's ten percenteasier, you know one one thing off their to dolists for the day, right,whatever it might be to to being able to kind of coach andmentor a lot more people along the way, whether you know a folks who kind ofwork with us or we, you know we just came in contact with. So I think those are some of the thingsthat have been been really fulfilling yeah. That's great. I could have usedyour solution the last couple of weeks, so I'm a caretaker for my ninety oneyear, old, grandmother and she's just started experiencing some pain in thelast week called the doctor. We did a video visit, my grandmother's prettyexcited about that. She really likes it actually and W, and we got a prescription forher and Itshe was so sick and so nauseous and Iind so she'd stop taking the medication and she'd rather experience theexpruciating pain than be nauseous and be sick from it and come to find outtoday. It which I mean and I kind of feel like I was neglecting her that Ididn't even know this, but she was supposed to take it with food or eatbefore she took it. And so you know the doctor never said that or if he did, Ididn't hear it and I didn't read it on the little tiny. You know informationthat comes with it. When I picked up her script, and so you know she was,she was had to take a like a price select, because so I knewit could upset the stomach. But she was already taking another prescriptionmedicine with it to make sure that is didn't happen so anyway, I could havetotally used your tool or still can use your tool to help me navigate thisseason with her yeah and- and I can...

...completely you know, understand thatscenario and- and I appreciate you bringing that up because that'sexaactly, you know why you've done what you've done and the approach you'vetaken, because you know whether, even if it's you know Folk Tor, let's sayeducated and, like you said, theyre they're, reading the the leaf lets, butstill I mean there's a lot to process and- and there needs to be a simplerway to just have that be done for you yeah. You know I keed you not. I was ona flight coming back from San Francisco. Maybe this was the the last one I tookthis year and the flight attendant. You know justwas really friendly and just we started talking and- and she basically said-Shehad been taking a thiridt medication for ten years and no result was coming off of it and forwhatever reason, no one told her. Actually needed to be taken on in an Bstomach first thing in the morning and I'm just like you know what that's whywe're doing wat would be yeah these little things but the, butthere there might be a tiny piece of information, but can be very valuablegame change and care. Yeah I mean my personal favorite has been you know:Tepra Flox as it right it's a standard antibiotic that you know you take forBron, kill, infections or whatever else. I was prescribed that at some point,while researching this product and I did sit and wait through the leaf ledyeah. As soon as I got past the socidal touts- and you know, I saw that Oh the drug molecule fromSIPBRO bying to calcium and food, and hence this should be taken a minimum oftwo hours before or after a meal, and I'm like. Why would no one tell me thatyou know taking this? You know for five days already so but anycase it's thingslike that. Tha Yeah make the difference yeah completely. So let's talk aboutthis global pandemic. How you know it's really impacted companies in differentways. You know some of them have kind of assessed the changing marketconditions and it's either created incredible opportunity or it's been ahuge roadblock in different aspects of the business and sometimes it's acombination of the two. It's challenges you know in in sales. Now we move tovirtual sales. Oh my gosh. Now we need to adapt our sales strategy and itcould be. You know, dors Clos, for our. You know target market for a season ormaybe for a much longer, and we need to look at another target market segmentto pursue so kind of just walk us through what that's been like for you yeah. You Bet. So it's definitely been. You know abump in the road to kind of have this global pandemic. You Know Lat lend uphere, so we feel like we had a lot of goodmomentum, leading up to kind of you know, early March, which whichdefinitely slowed down tremendously yeah, so so that was definitelychallenging and, of course, just like a lot of other. You know startups belooked into a lot F. The the government...

...funding, mechanissms and so on to juststay aflop, but at the same time, what we did notice was that the existingutilization off our prodifart, you know, went up because you know you thinkabout the patients that we have on thesubstitutes disorderside. You know most of them being really motivated anand not letting the pandemic kind of you know. Drabe them down actually weremaximizing all the tools available to them to to stay on track with theircovery. So you know, even though I kind of mentally emotionally was- was alittle bit low at you know in the early days, but when I saw that take place, Imean that was moreof ax to you know that was isfiring, yeah and and then westarted you know. As the new rebursement codes wor Tela healthbecame available Y. I should blieve for the worthual check in that you visit.You know we decided to try and kind of align ourselves with that to somedegree, even though you know we had never thaught of ourselves as kind of atraditional tella health product right, because we don't do video consoltsright. We do offer text messaging as a communicationmechanism along with real time alerts and nortifications, but it made us kindof think about it in maybe a more acchelarated manner than originallywewwere thinking. You know we would do so, so I think that's kind of some ofthe learning and you know what we did to kind of adapt to the new landscapeSoso. Now, like I said you know, thankfully you know some of theconversations initially e picking back up along with some of the newer marketsegments. I think hospitals a are definitely planning on. You know whattheire overall tell ef health strategy needs to be because you know it's hereto stay right right right, the what's what people are trying tofigure out is, you know, send out tell the healt tif adoption went up, butthen was it the adoption in terms of just getting access to someone rightaway. Now that things are opening back up andyour own provider maybe has become tella held capable? Will you actuallygo back to your own provider? And so then, this you know, new growth thattook place is actually going to you know kind of subside over time so b.These are some of the things people are trying to figure out, along with theprivacy and other aspects, but but yeah I mean that's kind of how we arethinking about it. I think that the physicians, what I'm, what I'm hearingand seeing even first hand, you know with my grandmother's experience- is the ones that weren't necessarily tella health practices before that have adapted to that, just because of thecovid crisis, whether they like it because they're getting compensatedfinancially for it now or not. Still having this hybrid model seems tobe a challenge where, if they were all virtual or Whetehe, they were allphysical that it would be a little bit...

...easier for them than trying to navigatethe waters of both at the same time. You know the doctor that I was seeingwas you know forty five minutes late and to me that's unacceptable in avirsual environment, whereas that would be really normal n a regular face toface office visit, but so he's juggling someone that has a video visit, but aface to face patient before us that you know you're not going to just go hey,we got to wrap it up right. You know you do your Pistien Care, so it S. Ithink it's just. I agree with you. I think that it's here to say- and Ithink that you know over the next few months- the next year, so we will startto figure out what what those hybrid models look like and how tools likeyours fits in and kind of helps with that that model of care. Absolutely Imean you know our value. PROBLM, honestly, is the car continuen yeah, soyou know Premi care the specialist ucee and so on. You know, at the end of theday, having all your information one place and having the tool guite youalong the lanter as compared to this transactional or episodic model sdegree, but yeah I mean, I think you know Gour boynt. I had a telle healthconsult, it was, it was great. You know I was not having to commute to thedoctor's office. I did not have to wait in a waiting room. Ereie might begetting infected at something etely O- and you know it took maybe tenminuthmets of my time and so the convediance factor. It's definitelythat you know, and in my case it was my own provider, so so that was the other.You know so I anyway yeah yeah. That makes sense. So I wonder you know, hasso there's so many different changes. I think that you know health innovatorscan be examining during this. The changes in the market conditions hasanything changed from your perspective from a partnership and allianceopportunities that might be a a shift or a Gane Changer for you and yourcommercialization strategy going forward. Is that something that you'Veyou'vThought about yet or not? Yet? So I think you know so definitelypotential partnership conversations are always ongoing. You know so for us, the partners could be. You know pop healthor disease management and vendors, who have kind of you know and be module, and we can provide therest of the solution to to really gettinto some of thoseproviders where we can be the technology platform to enable the caremanagement. So I mean you know we're contining a Lon. The same conversations,I wouldn't say that you know the the new landscape has has changed anythingtoo much, except to say that that maybe t e theneed like wou are talking from a tell the health perspective has just yoknowgotten acchelarated and Pel a just had...

...to scramble and an ADAP, so somethingthat was going to take. Maybe a decade now is here for already in a period ofyou know three months, so I think that's going to be good because for usyou know on more on the meication management side. Now you know we canextilarate the virtual medication therapy management services, side ofthings and so onfon. So so I think those are some of the theconversatations that have maybe sped up a little bit. Yeah Yeah, I'm justcurious one of the things that comes to mind is you know the the hospital systems their hairs onfire. You know if their attention is on things liketell a health. Is it viable? You know for you, as maybe as well as maybeother listeners and viewers to partner with those telehealth companies to bean ad on solution and using that as like a distribution channel for yoursolution, especially in the interm, where the hospital system might not bepaying as much attention for new opportunities where they might be ableto get in the door while you or other health innovators can't yeah greatgreat question. Definitely something we've been thinking about and exploring. So so I think, there'smaybe two different ways of approaching this. You know so one is to go to youknow a tell health mender. You know Wheth, it's an American well and belive. You know and others to like. You said right. You know in integrate withthem and then kind of go to market yeah. I think there's there's value there,especially in the ones that have more of a primary care. You know aspect of it because you knowfor the most part, if you're doing a transactional, video consult, you knowto replace and urgent care visit. You know, are you really looking at youknow getting a tool for for manageming ments and things like that? Potentiallyyou know I don't want to say there isn't a need there, but Ithink you know, and then you look at the other side where health systems you know like we weretalking, are adding those capabilities themselves to offer yea video consultservices. So so I think, as part of a broad virtual care telling helthstrategy with the health system, definite alignment where you know witha vendor that does video consolts. You know they're kind of part of theportfolio and then we cover the patient, selfcare and other communicationaspects of it. So so those are some of the ways we'rekind of segmenting that Ho process as if we move foward, okay, excellent. Sowhat are the biggest opportunities for you in the future wwhat's on the horizonfor eliminate health? You know it's going to be an excitingyear, one way or the other. It already has been right, so so we're lookingforward to our...

...get ow new advisors that have just comeon board. So so really just honored and thankful to have such a great team tohelp you know be the be the win beneath our waings and you know to actuallybelieve in us and and Wanto be a part of our journey. So so that's reallyexciting. I think the other aspect is to you know, start doing planning for apotential fund race. So it's going to be our first. You know kind of a seedround if you will yeah. Apart from just you know, M R, moretraction and more impact on on patience. Yeah, that's great! So the advisors, soyou know again kind of taken in conseration our listeners. You knowwhat what's important, what to look for an advisor. You know, maybe somethingthat we might might not be on our Rada already. You know what Yeah Yeah I mean. I think,at the end of the day, you want to. You know, look for people that thatbelieve in what you're doing and and actually are passionate about this samespace. If you will and then you know, you have to take alook at existint kipabilities on the team ow you know and and then see how you can augment whatwhat's already part of the team and and so you know, we took that same approchand you know essentially we're talking to alot of different people and you know decided to decided that the fit was wascorrect. A you know, with with with three people we just brought on boardand- and now you know, have a couple more of those conversations goingbecause we, you know we still have room to grow so I'l take those would be someof the ways to think about this. Yeah I mean, I think, that the advisors you know that you work with play such acritical role. I call it like a thinking partner, you know they're external to the company, theysee things that you don't see. So, besides the the networking, theintroductions that are usually really can be game changers for thecommercialization strategy, but also you know, being able to be thatthinking partner because foreagn entrepreneur in a lot of ways. Evenwhen you have a team, it can be a Lok, very lonely. Endeavor right- and you know, as a startup. You've gota limited amount of resources, and you know you most of us can't afford anddon't want to afford to make the wrong decisions along the way. I mean, ofcourse, nothing's going to be perfect. You know well always adapt but reallybeing able to have that thinking partner to wrestle with those ideas tokind of figure out, what's going to be the most viuable and profitable path, Ithink it's just so important. That's exactly right! Yes, and I mean you knowat the end of the day, you're going to work with people. Your joy working with you know because yeah I mean with oneof the advisors recently I must have sounded not as you know myself and, andso you know, he literally said it's all...

...right. You know cool will get toge yeah,because it's an artorous journey and yeah so some days you need advice andwisdom, and some days you just need some encouragement, inspiration right yeah, so you know. Thank you so muchfor your time today before we wrap up what are some lessons learned or somewords of wisdom, that you would want to share advice that you want to share with ourlisteners and viewers, so I would say for anyone, who'sexploring entrepreneurship, you know. Definitely don't don't let any of thisscare you away it's a worthy career path. It'sdefinitely, you know a way. You can have really high level of impact andand learn a lot honestly. So so definitely you know happy toobviously talk to anyone who was exploring that so a feel feer to reachout. You know, I think, apart from that,some of the learnings that we've had along the course of the way are youknow what what I've been reading aboutrecently as well, which is you want to find the right team to start with and look for. You know thecomplementary capabilities in your court team Youve en. Of course, youalready talked about the advisor side, but then also, you know, keep enough ofa focus from a market perspective as your heads down building your productas well, because you know not nly, is it crucial to have user input into youknow? Let's say it's cream that you're designing, but it's also really crucial to havethat. You know business aspect. Always you know out there so I' Tik. Thosewould be some of the you know, kind of Pece of advice as people think throughthis awesome. So how can people get a hold of you F, a roon if they do wantto follow up with you after the show yeah. Obviously you know linked in, andyou know, following your yeur show, my email addressd is vg at Illuminat.Dot Help so happy to you know, be Vu BCH there. Our website obviously isillumnide dot help so Youa fel fo to check us out and thank you for havingme on the show yeah. Thank you for being a guest today, but thank you somuch for listening. I know you're busy working to bring your life changinginnovation to market, and I vowue your time and your attention to save kindand get the latest episodes on your mobile device automatically subscribeto the show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify andstitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone. WHO's been sharing.The show with friends and colleagues, see you on the next episode of coiq.

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