Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 110 · 1 week ago

Is listening your winning strategy? w/ Harsh Vathsangam


Even though the world of healthcare is slow to implement changes to tried-and-true systems, the world of healthcare technology rockets right along.

For many entrepreneurs who build startups in the healthcare space, we’re expecting that quick pace, we brace for it and match it - even when slowing down might be our best option.

Harsh Vathsangam is the Co-Founder and CEO of Moving Analytics and he’s here to remind us that sometimes (okay, more often than not), slowing the pace and really listening can be the key to success.

When we move too fast, we can miss small details that pack a big punch - and when our company picks up on those details and puts them into play, we put our solutions at the head of the pack.

On this week’s episode, learn how strategy can be both quick and thoughtful, if we simply take the time necessary to really listen to what our market, and customers, are telling us.

Here are the show highlights:

  • Two things to do when you’re thinking of forming a startup (5:47)
  • Should you be fundraising, or gathering analyses? (10:00)
  • How landing your first customer can break down barriers (22:22)
  • You never know where that lead is going to come from (23:44)
  • How listening can be your winning strategy (29:56)
  • Crossing the chasm between early the adopter market and mainstream market (31:27)

Guest Bio

Harsh Vathsangam, PHD, is the Co-Founder and CEO of Moving Analytics, a digital health company out to conquer heart disease through digital prevention.

His personal mission is to take technological solutions and apply them in ways that benefit people's lives.

Harsh brings a broad range of expertise to the startup community, from working at the intersection of big data and mobile health all the way to technological and social innovation.

If you’d like more info on Moving Analytics, you can email them at or contact them on Twitter at @movinganalytics. If you’d like to reach out to Harsh, you can message him via LinkedIn at Harsh Vathsangam.

You're listening to health innovators, apodcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adopters who are shapingthe future of health care. I'm your host, Dr Roxy Movie. Welcomeback to the show health innovators. On today's episode I'm sitting down with harsh, that Song Gam, who is the CO founder of moving analytics. Welcometo the show, harsh the morning. Dr Oxy, it's a pleasure tomeet you and excited to have this conversation and then just discuss all things healthcare. Yes, absolutely so. You have such an interesting background. Let'sstart off by just telling our audience a little bit about what you've been innovatingthese days and kind of your background. That what led you to where youare today. Sure, absolutely so. A little fun fact about me.I've lived and worked in four countries, so in the Middle East, inIndia, in Australia and in the United States. So I'm just being globalization. Yes, exactly. I got the chance to experience a whole variety ofcultures and and just societies and I think it's made me a better person forsure. But, you know, closer to my professional life, you knowI did my PhD in Computer Science at the University of Southern California originally startedtheir thinking I would do a robotics PhD and more work and you know,hard sciences and so on. But through combination of faith and interest, Ithink I ended up in health care and I would say a lot of mywork has been in how data science can be leveraged to deliver better health care. Initiated a lot of work in basically creating models of the human body asrelated to how you know when you exercise, how do you burn calories and soon. Then start getting into essentially prevention and how we could change dayto day behaviors based on data that we sense about you, and that waswhat eventually led to moving analytics and the work we do in cardiovaskt a care. So that's a little bit quick background. Would obviously happy to dig deeper there. Yeah, so tell us a little bit about moving analytics and whenyou started the company. Sure, so, depending on how you define starting,we started in two thousand and thirteen. So the thesis behind moving analytics thatCARDIOVASCA disease is the number one cause of death and the number one sourceof direct and interact healthcare costs today. A lot of that is borne byhealth plans, but more and more is being borne by individuals themselves. Asyou know, we shift to the more hide it uptable health plans and soon. But the silver lining is that a large part of it is preventableif you can change day to day behaviors, and those that are things like gettingpeople to exercise more, eat better, take their mends and so on.But it as we know, that there's a lot of slip between inthe cup and the lip. Right like in a sense that the you cansee you need to exercise more, but there are so many personal, societalor environmental barriers that can make a person not exercise, and so we reallythink there this is space for creating evidence based therapies to really help people toidentify and then surmount those barriers from a behavioral perspective, and that leads toa better cardiovass outcomes and better heart health and so on. I'm just curious, you know. I mean we've had behavioral science kind of integrated into healthcarefor quite some time now. I mean even just for the work that I'mdoing, done in the past with just communications for different types of clinical programswhere you're kind of segmenting that messaging strategy on different segments of the population tokind of motivate them in different ways. So how is what you're doing different? That's really going to drive resolve? Yeah, so I think it's acombination of things. Right. So behavior...

...change doesn't happen in a vacuum.It's sometimes you need a almost like a lifealtering event that happens for you todecide hat this is the time for me to change my behaviors so I don'thave doesn't know, this lifehaltering or doesn't happen again. And that basically whatled us to start our first product in this space, which is in thisarea of Cardiac Rehab, which happens after an acute event, like if youhad a heart attack or heart surgery, and then we take you through abehavior change program that really helps you to improve your heart health in a waythat you don't get a second heart attack. The reason why we pick that andwhy that's important from a behavior perspective is you literally had a life anddeath event and you know if a few seconds here and there, you youknow, it could mean the difference between you being alive or not right andand then you're not motivated now, you probably never will be. Right.Yeah, exactly, and that's a actually a really great point for behavior change. And a lot of what we try to do is to write, tryto get the patient at the bedside, even before they leave the hospital,to say and we capture them in that moment. You know, it's ait can be a very confusing time in a lot of patients have anxiety anddepression of that time where. But we essentially try to work with them tosay, Hey, this is not the end, this is actually new beginningfor you and we would like to work with you to make sure that thisdoesn't happen again, or you can get even healthier than you were before soit doesn't happen again. And from that point on it's all about personalization,it's about convenience, so trying to meet the patients where they are and alsotrying to under rather than US dictating to them. Hey, you, thisis what you have to do. We try to lead with empathy, rightand essentially say what is your life like? What do you what are your hopes, what are your aspirations, what do you see as barriers to yourselfand what do you want to change about yourself and then we start from thereto build a program that makes the most sense for them. So and soit's those two things that I think are super important as well. So let'skind of dive deep into your journey. I love when you were saying earlierabout like well, depends on when you count on when we start, whenwe started right. So kind of just go back to two thousand and thirteenand what were some of those things that you were encountering, where you weremaybe like start, stop and just kind of give us some snapshots of theearlier days and what that journey looked like for you. Sure. Yeah,very insightful question. So I think to start with myself personally. For me, I did my phd and I worked at Microsoft and then I also didpost doc at USC what became apparent to me was I really enjoyed building technologiesdidn't really want to optimize my right life around an academic life, which is, you know, publications, grants and so on. So I wanted towork in technology and create new technologies, but not necessarily optimized for the publicationother aspects of it. So I feel just as a person, I wasthe kind of person who like to do startups and I think that was justsomething that I wanted to do, I was passionate about and if not this, I would have probably ended up in a different startup of spot. SoI think that change the world right exactly. And now, with respect of that, one of the things that I think a lot of entrepreneurs get enamoredwith this the technology that they build and not necessarily the the the application orthe benefit that they provide. So I was very lucky in that I hada very supportive PhD advisor, Dr Carlskatney, who's sort of an early investor inthe company. to He did. He encouraged me to do two things. So one is, if you want to start a company, start takingclasses. Just go start the company and learn so to get in the getout in the wild and do it. But he was also really supportive tome in terms of finding opportunities to get...

...some coaching, and so we hadthis opportunity to participate in this program called the nsfi core program, which isan interactive program where they encourage you to could n coode, get out ofthe building and talk to customers. So I think we had this tremendous basicallytwo thousand and thirteen and eventually two thousand and fourteen, we got paid alittle money by the government to essentially throw grant to essentially go out and talkto customers and build pieces right there and and and that's huge. That's athat's a great footing and foundation to start on. Yeah, exactly, andwhat we've learned through that. So, number one, it's it's super hardto go out and talk to customers. Can Be Scary, but you haveto do it and the more you do it, the better off you willbe. Number two, we learned like essentially we were basically a technology lookingfor a solution, rather than trying to find a true n need in themarket that needed to be solved and then seeing if we can leverage our expertiseto solve that problem. Right, so starting with the needs of a potentialcustomer and then trying to find use your knowledge to resolve it, rather thansaying, I have this technology. Would you want it that hard for youas somebody that wants to build something? I mean, was it just naturalfor you to start off with the problem solution, okay, this is whatwe can build, or was it kind of this you know internal struggle oflike this is what I want to build, but there's nobody to buy this.I think there was certainly a struggle and we had to change our mindseta lot to say put away your expertise, like put away your what you wantto do and really try to understand and try to empathize with what peopleare going through and and see if there's a solution there. And and there'smultiple levels to that's there's like do people have a problem? Do they realizethey have a problem? Do they is the is their solution really the rightsolution, or is it a different solution that you will come up with,especially coming in as an outsider into their world? Right? So, yeah, so I think those are all more subtleties we picked up as we getbetter conn the consequences of those decisions are are like game changers on whether you'regoing to have commercial success. If we kind of go back to what youwere saying earlier about, you know, your mindset or goal of kind ofintegrating behavioral science in with this technology. If you would have chosen a differenttherapeutic category, that you might not have had as much success. If youwould have chosen a different point within that care continuum might not have had somuch success. And so many times I don't think that innovators are doing thattype of thorough analysis to really, you know, especially when you can like, you know, build a solution that can help many people at many differentstages, and I don't think enough people spending the time upfront doing all ofthat analysis to really be able to get to you've had a really terrible cardiacevent, the trigger that creates the sweet spot for your solution. Great,and that's absolutely true. In fact, you know a lot of them frominvestors. You know, we get asked this question. So you were incorporatedin two thousand and thirteen, but you didn't get us like, why isyour revenue not fast enough? And Yeah, you have to explain to them thattwo thousand and thirteen to two thousand and sixteen was us just trying tounderstand what the problem was and in US investing in the long term benefit ofthe company rather than trying to find, you know, pushing something and beentrying to get some revenue. But they're not really bully, I think,customers right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I think it was ea evenmore important for us because, you...

...know, me. Although I hada very interdisciplinary PhD working with the Department of Preventive Medicine and School of Medicine, I was still an outside I was a technologist and I needed to breakinto the world of medicine and really do my time there for people to respectme. For we learn the terminologies to me too, for me to knoweven simple like they're just sticks lingo that everybody uses. Yeah, and hernames everywhere. Yeah, exactly, and also to to sort of flip theother side, like to bring that outsiders perspective. I had to know whatthe insiders are thinking so that I could bring the so I can then flipmy from my left brain to my right brain or whatever it is, andthen bring that outsiders perspective. So I think I would highly recommend that spendingjust without any agenda, spending time in the industry you want to sort ofoperate in and try to get really well worsed in that, and I thinkthat pays off on the long term to and I think the best entrepreneurs dothat really seamlessly and really thoroughly in the beginning as well. So how iswhat's the secret to sustainability? When you're you know, first three years areyou're not even like seeking revenue, you're not selling anything, you haven't maybebuilt anything to sell. What what is the like? How are you buildinga sustainable company that way? And what is it? What's it like havingthose conversations with investors? Like, were you trying to raise money within thosefirst three years and really struggling with the investors not understanding that you were stilldoing customer discovery and kind of like what you had indicated? Or, youknow, were you doing pitch competitions and grants and other things to kind ofcreate that sustainability so that way you weren't even fat facing that situation? Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. So I'll just kind of put alittle personal tip bits of two thousand and thirteen was a very momentous yere forme because within a space of thirty days, like I graduated from my PhD atDefferent in my thesis, I incorporated the Company and then I got fired. So all three happened within like forty five days of each other, Ithink. So I knew survived. That's all right. Yeah. Well,I think in that sense I'm very lucky that my family and my spouse inparticular and my spouse, as family, were extremely supportive in what was ahigh risk and you didn't even know what you're doing at that point. Youknow, and so I so I think I'll leave in your son in law. We believe in you. I think that matters a lot when I guessthe point is that they believe in the person and not necessarily the solution orthe or the idea. They believe that the person will figure it out andtheir supportive no matter what the outcome is positive, negative and so on.Right, so that's there and that makes a huge difference when you're out becauseyou know that, hey, I have people supporting me. So that's numberone. Number two, I think, is finding the right team members whoare equally bought into that idea. So I'm very lucky in that around thetime that I was starting the company, I had two co founders who werewilling to take that jump with me, whom I met in Grad School andand I think what they've told me multiple times has been the reason we startworking with you is because we knew you were serious about this and and thatseriousness meant that we could be serious about what we're doing and work with youas well. So I think that finding those team members who also complimented myskill. So I was obviously more technical and more I'm all about data science, Dayta all that stuff, whereas others were more focus on business, focus, more on just actually building things and designing and so on, and Ithink that that is carried through through the entire lifetime of our company. Ithink everyone now we're, you know,...

...several, like we're in almost fortypeople now, and I think they're all at some level bought into the missionof the company right and and that's why they're doing this versus the thousand otherthings they could be doing in their day to day life. So that's numberone. Number two, I think in terms from a more tangible finance perspective, it was a lot of it was just hacking to get their funds andfinding ways to support ourselves while we were evaluating process. We were not readyfor any kind of even angel funds at that point. So I think whatwe've tried to do is, you know, we all had their jobs. Youknow, we worked. I was still doing my post doc, Iwas doing my research. They're making sure I kept getting publications out so thatI would still keep my job and not do other things. My other twocofounders had similar, equivalent versions of that, but we spent essentially, we worktwo jobs. So like we in the morning we work in our caron our regular jobs. The evenings and afternoons we would work in on ourcompany and try to develop things more. And you know, essentially we wouldall meet in a coffee shop that was our office and just sit all acrossthe table and work on things together and then come back the next day andwe just participate in business plan competitions. We were really lucky that by beingpart of the USC network, we will we've able to get access to foundationmoney, grant money. I think we raised at least like two and Fiftyzerothrough grant money and you, and I would actually have to thank you,AC for that ecosystem support in the early days when it's a very fragile business, in fragile state of our business, and so I think all of thatreally helps. But I think at the same time we did hustle a lot. Like I would just put in a business plan up competition application every weekand see what we would get, and we raised like k here twenty gaitherand then just kind of survived there. So and and then it ultimately comingin US raising our seed, seed round in two thousand and sixteen when wegot our first customer and we got our first like, you know, twentyFivezero a year contract basically from a customer, and then just got a going fromthere, then on, there on end. So I think the lessonthat for me personally is, you know, work, just try to find anything, any source of capital you can to fund it, whether it's,you know, getting a day job, whether it is getting that because andand find people who really believe in you, because at that stage it's really aboutthat mission and dedication, and especially when the idea itself is just anidea in your head, it's not actually something that's out there at the marketplace, but you need someone that's crazy enough to believe this idea that's intangible.Yeah, and it's in hindsight it's been crazy to me how, like theyou really have to have that vision that this is the way the world isgoing to be ten years from now and have that conviction that that's how it'sgoing to be. and not everybody's going to believe you, but it's mattersthat you believe in it and you work towards it and sometimes there's a timingissue or maybe you maybe it's actually twenty years ahead and not ten years ahead, and so you have come back to it later, but it's I thinkthat was what we were talking about a lot of people back then. We'relike, this doesn't even make sense. Tell a health like, what areyou doing with right, right, I mean it's just kind of rolls offthe tongue. Now in two thousand and twenty one. Yeah, Hey,it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Are you tryingto figure out what moves you need to make to survive and thrive in thenew covid economy? I want every health innovator to find their most viable andprofitable pivot strategy, which is why I created the covid proof your business pivotkit. The pivot kit is a step by step framework that helps you findyour best pivot strategy. It walks you through six categories you need to examinefor a three hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call themthe six critical pivot lenses. As you...

...make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to makesure you can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details and opportunities.Learn more at legacy DNACOM backslash kit. Let's just talk about some of thoseaccomplishments that you've had. Right. So you've raised, you know, correctme if I'm wrong here, but you've raised nearly ten million and funding.You've got over a million users and the platform and you also have some reallybig marquee customers like Mayo Clinic and Kaiser and high mark. That's a reallygreat contrast from the two thousand and thirteen story. Yeah, yeah, it'snot a feel good it does feel good, it's sometimes it's you know, youyou, when you're climbing up the mountain, you have to stop andsee the view and then go up the mountain again. And when we seethe view, I think it were really proud of some of the accomplishtions we'vedone. I think there are a couple of things that through those. Ithink the logos and the fact that those, you know, extremely high profile customerstrust us with their business is a huge it's both humbling but also inspiringto me and I really want to make them happy and I think all ofus want to make them happy. The I think what what I'm particularly proudabout is just a number of patients we've served whose lives we've improved. Andas part of that, I think I'm also proud of the team that hasjoint Dick Force us together to serve and I think those two things are thingsthat I just as I'm just as a legacy. I'm really glad that I'vegone through this experience and and I hope that more people join us as wellto this. It's well, you never know who's listening. So so kindof like the the in between. Kind of give us the highlights of thein between two thousand and thirteen and where you are now. What are someof those? Is You look back, what are some of those winning moves? It may be things that we would expect, it may be things thatwere unexpected that when you look back on it, you're like wow, thesemoves that we be made or that these opportunities that came before us were actuallyended up being real game changers for us. So I think in Hindset, Iwould say three to four things. Number one is, I think USdoing that initial eye core process which really made us very customer focused and nottechnology focused, and that has soaked into our DNA like at every level ofour company. And and so we to the fact that are the model ofour company's empathy, guiding expertise. So that is what we try to have. Everyone followed through. Yeah, number one is that. Number two,I think, is just our first study that we did with the WEA medicalcenter, who still our customer today in Atlanta, and that was the firstresult, first paper, where we were able to show with our technology wewere able to produce really meaningful outcomes for veterans and the work that they doand make sure that they reduce the risk of cuttivasculities. That was a kindof important moment for us, I think, the landing that first pilot customer.I think so. Yeah, I think it it was hard for usto as a startup a particularly in healthcare. Evidence is key, right, soyou need to show that your technology actually improves lives or improves outcomes insome way. And and so really finding that earlier doctor partner who can who'swilling to trust. Again, they're placing their trust in me as a personand founding team as people to say that...

...this is going to work out welland and just leveraging that. And I'm the V has been a great partnerfor us in terms of helping US validator technology and even support us through ourgrowth as a company. So I think I can't say enough positive things aboutthem. So Great. I think the two other points would be our firststudy with the like a health plan, which just namely Kaiser, that westarted working with, and our first reimbursement that we received as a provider fromanother health plan and the high mark held. Those have been like really important momentsbecause you know, once you once you break that barrier, it's easierfor everyone else start working with you. Yeah, and so that and Ithink that's been the case. Now we're more and more health plans of coveringus. It's a benefit, but I think those are kind of like thesort of landmark things that happen in our journey as a company. So asyou were getting to those, those landmarks, those milestones, what was that like? You know, was it really easy? You know, you justpicked up the phone, you just call them and in they immediately said,oh my gosh, harsh, you're so awesome. I love your vision.Yes, let's do it. You know. What what was that like and ityou know, is there anything in that process that you uncovered that wouldbe something worth sharing with the audience here? So I have to give credit tomy cofounders who first of all found some of those deals, and Ithink, for example, are De Sonia, my cofounder, who leads our businessinitiatives. The high mark study came from him just sending a cold emaillinkedin to person there and he was lucky that the person responded and then thatwas the hookie. Got To basically get that going right. So you neverknow where that lead is going to come from, so you take your chancealways like I think that's that's in everybody in the audience once a copy ofthat email. Right now. I'm just this is if somebody will publish itas a voter right. Yeah, I think the the other part, Iwould say, is really listening, even at that stage, listening to whatthe customers priorities are. So you know, maybe you have priorities like I wantto validate my technology, whatever, but that may be different from thecustomers priorities and you want to either mold your priorities to match their's or findthe intersection that that match, that is with their priorities. And I thinkthe in high marks case, for example, the key was that they wanted tobe able to look at their data to see if there really was anopportunity for cost savings in their cardiac population. is by working with us, andwhat we try to do is to make it as easy as possible forthem to run that analysis. So we literally gave them things like CPT codes, ICD ten codes, we gave them a sample analysy sheet and things likethat to make it as easy as possible to run that as quickly as possible, and that helped a lot, I think, in terms of high markdiscovering that there was a problem and that they're and they're willing to take apilot to validated. We solid problem and then the pile of the successful andthings moved on from there. But that it goes back to that, youknow, listen to the voice of the customer and what's happened, what theirpriorities are, before you mold your pitch to match their needs as well.Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I you know, obviously there's this consistenttheme that you keep coming back to, is is that customer voice that getswoven into the business. You know, I'm a huge proponent of that beingpart of the culture and just the fabric of the organization, the DNA ofthe company, and not something that you just did wants or even that youdo once a year. It's just kind...

...of, you know, really valuingthat in realizing how much of an impact that really makes on the business andthe commercialization process hundred percent. I can emphasize that enough and to be clear, sometimes I fall into the trap of not doing that. So it's notsomething that you got to keep referring to that internally and keep coming back tous all. So well, and I think that goes back to your pointwhere you have to have other team members that buy into this approach as well, so that way when we start to veer off that they can remind us, because it is really hard when you're in it. I mean just it'sjust such a knee jerk reaction to like I have a solution, let mego out and build it and deliver it and without kind of slowing down tokind of do that investigative work or messaging something to where it's really all aboutyou and how awesome you are instead of what's in it for the target customerthat you're trying to do business with. Yeah, I think it's it's ait's so this is kind of a point where I feel so I'm a PhD, you know, candidator or graduate and so on. As an academic cominginto the world, you sort of wonder can I be a good salesperson,you know, and like you see those flashy sales people with, you know, suits and driving out the Ferrari and all that stuff and you're like,you know, that doesn't seem like me right at this point. So,but I think what it was really a relief for me was to understand that, say, sales is basically listening and and trying to understand what the customersproblems are and to see if you can solve them. And and end ofthe day, the dollar transaction is a way for both parties to make eachother a whole. But end o the days of what solving people's problems rightand and there's an art to a sale, which is making sure you uncover theproblems and find the right people to buy into sub implementing your solution andso on. But it is about listening and and to me that was ahuge relief knowing that, because that's I can I can listen, I canalways ask questions, I can be friendly and I'm not very pushy or I'mnot trying to like, you know, like get people to buy cars right, like use cars, but I'm at the same time trying to just makesure that people are happy by working with us, and I think that wasgreat because it's just I think, like from for someone coming in from atechnical background, I think it makes it. That's what I would say, like, don't worry about it's actually great that you have the technical background,because your you can now solve the problem for people, solve complex problems forpeople. What you all need, only need to do on top of thatis just listen to people and see how you can do there. So,yeah, sounds like you've got it mastered. Oh, you know, it's alwaysa work in progress. For sure, I will. I've seen some reallygreat listeners and I hope I can be like them something. So thisone time I actually took a whole class in my bachelor's degree on communication.I had a twelve week course on listening and at the beginning I thought,oh my gosh, I think I'm like almost thirty years old. I've beenlistening my whole life. Why would I have to take twelve weeks of listening? That course was a game changer for me because I realized that I reallysucked at listening and I learned so much. I probably only apply a fifth,you know, one five of that. Still have a long way to go, but I mean it really there is an art and really even ascience to listening. Yeah, yeah, and I think it's the same evenfor our patients, right with coaches that we offer. I think a lotof what our coaches do is in the first week just listen and try tosee what the patients lives are like and...

...and and I think that helps buildtrust to because you're willing to say that I'm investing my time in just understandingyou, and whether that's in sales or in working with patients, I thinkthat may pays off a lot in the long term because it's about the investingin that relationship and not necessarily about solving the problem then in there as partof it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, as as a matter of fact,my professor at the time actually published a book called listening pace okay,the exact language that you just used. I need to find that book onAmazon Article. Look at Africa. Yeah, I'll send you the link afterwards.So, as we kind of just start to wrap up here, liketo talk about, like you know, where you going next, right,what's in store for moving analytics in two thousand and twenty two? Where doessome of the things that you're really excited about and and maybe what are someof the challenges that your plan on tackling and in the upcoming year? So, as you know, as I've said before, our mission is to empowerevery individual to level life free of CARDIOVASCA disease. So I think to thatend, we have a ten year road map where we basically want to offermore and moree therapies that cater to other indications, right. So a lotof what we're doing now is essentially trying to get more patients access to ourcore program which is in post heart attacks and post surgeries, and so weare looking to work with more help plans to cover us for more hospitals anddoctors who refer the patients to us. We're spending a lot of time inthe Midwest, so we work a lot in Pennsylvania and upstate New York andIllinois and everything in between. So just trying to grow a lot in thatregion and also expand to potentially other reason regions as well. So that's ourshort term goal. But then eventually our goal is to expand to other indications, so play their things like cardio oncology patients with the age of tribulation andother indications for whom we have is currently not covered as a benefit. Soby doing that we want essentially push the science and push medical knowledge further andreally make that solid dent in the universe that we were always looking to makethe long term. So I think it's fantastic. You kind of have avision for what's next, right, what's that next market or that next offerthat you're going to be able to pursue after? But there's this strategy calleda bowling pin strategy where you know each one of those markets are, eachone of those products kind of represent a bowling pin. And most of thetime when I'm talking to innovators, they get it's like that Shiny Opportunity Syndromeright and it's like they see all the bowling pins and you know, wantto go after all the bowling pins at the same time or all or halfof the bowling pins. You know right out of the gate, and whatI really admire about what you're saying is that you're really focused and because you'refocused with your money, your time and your attention and all of the effortthat your team is putting through, you're going to have a much more successwith knocking down that first bowling pin that then that's going to help you getto the next bowling pin and so forth. But I think so many times we'rejust like we're trying to spread ourselves too thin because we don't want tomiss the window of opportunity for the other thing that we could pursue, thatwe end up not having enough umph for the first Bin and we end upknock not knocking anything over. Yeah, yeah, I think as an entrepreneur'svery tempting to chase after the next shiny object. I think there was onequote from Johnny Eve from Apple that really resonated with me about focus, wherehe basically said pocus is where you know you want to do something so badlywith every fiber of your being, what you're decided not to do it,even though you really want to do it and it requires a lot of disciplineand and a lot of self control to get there. But I given I'velearned that it's much better to be a very sharp knife than a than ablunt club when you're running a startup.

So then you can just move fasterand be more efficient and then eventually, I like every company, you diversifyand grow. It's a very large universe out there in terms of opportunities andthat is, I think, something that I keep trying to tell myself andI would definitely encourage everyone to keep thinking about. What is that focus point? What are the ten customers you can make extremely happy and like rabbit followersof you before you expand to the next hundred or two hundred of them aswell? For Them? Oh my goodness. Okay, so let's just pause therefor a second and kind of it's been a little time with that aswe wrap up, because that is also a real huge issue, is issometimes we want to have fifty or a hundred customers, right, so wecan make these numbers and kind of, you know, see this hockey stick, you know, scale, growth at scale, and but then we don'tnone of those customers become raving fans or brand ambassadors, you know, andwe start to have issues with retention and attrition and and so I love whatyou're saying there is, you know, pick that target list, that DreamList, and really get focused on not only converting them, but then makingsure that they do become those raving fans, because, you know, that's soarticle to crossing that chasm between that early adopter market in the mainstream marketis having those people that are telling the their peers about your solution and reallystart to have that word of mouth momentum that is so important. Yeah,I can't emphasize that enough, and I think you know when we've learned thatwhen you make your customers extremely happy and weaving fans of yours, they doyour marketing for you. It's like the most cost effective marketing budget. Soand so the and so we should definitely focus on that aspect and then therewill be a time where you will have to shift gears to to leverage thatinitial tip of the iceberg to go to, you know, the inhare it's workas well. Yeah, I'm definitely not saying that the business strategy shouldbe tend customers and that's it. Unless all ten were Nassa. So thenwrite exactly. But yeah, yeah, I can emphasize that enough. That'sit. So is there anything else that you would want to share with ouraudience before we wrap up? I think it's really just I want to emphasizeour mission, which is we want to serve at least like a million patientsevery year. Right. So, and for the audience who's interested in workingwith us, if you feel your talents could help us in achieving that mission, there's this fun fact, like to say, which is patient who doesCardiovasco we have doubles our chance of living another five years and there are buttwo million, a dozen the US every year who don't get that chance.So we have the opportunity to give back essentially ten million years of life tohumanity for a year. And what does it really mean? You know,in terms of the birthday, is the anniversaries, time spens, you lovedonce, and we really want people to help us in that mission and ifthere's any way you can contribute or an intro or your if you want tojoin our company, if you want to cover us as a benefit, we'dlove to work with you and make this mission in reality as well. That'sawesome. So how do people get Ahold of you? If they want toconnect with you after, you could just send an email to hello at movinganalyticscom or contact us on twitter at moving analytics, or message me via Linkedinor via twitter as well, at h Futsango. Yeah, perfect. Thankyou so much for joining me today. My pleasure and is a great promosation. I hope the audience really loves it. Thank you so much for listening.I know you're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market andI value your time and attention. To get the latest episodes on your mobiledevice, automatically subscribe to the show on...

...your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who sharethe show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of HealthInnovators.

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