Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 110 · 4 months ago

Is listening your winning strategy? w/ Harsh Vathsangam

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Even though the world of healthcare is slow to implement changes to tried-and-true systems, the world of healthcare technology rockets right along.

For many entrepreneurs who build startups in the healthcare space, we’re expecting that quick pace, we brace for it and match it - even when slowing down might be our best option.

Harsh Vathsangam is the Co-Founder and CEO of Moving Analytics and he’s here to remind us that sometimes (okay, more often than not), slowing the pace and really listening can be the key to success.

When we move too fast, we can miss small details that pack a big punch - and when our company picks up on those details and puts them into play, we put our solutions at the head of the pack.

On this week’s episode, learn how strategy can be both quick and thoughtful, if we simply take the time necessary to really listen to what our market, and customers, are telling us.

Here are the show highlights:

  • Two things to do when you’re thinking of forming a startup (5:47)
  • Should you be fundraising, or gathering analyses? (10:00)
  • How landing your first customer can break down barriers (22:22)
  • You never know where that lead is going to come from (23:44)
  • How listening can be your winning strategy (29:56)
  • Crossing the chasm between early the adopter market and mainstream market (31:27)

Guest Bio

Harsh Vathsangam, PHD, is the Co-Founder and CEO of Moving Analytics, a digital health company out to conquer heart disease through digital prevention.

His personal mission is to take technological solutions and apply them in ways that benefit people's lives.

Harsh brings a broad range of expertise to the startup community, from working at the intersection of big data and mobile health all the way to technological and social innovation.

If you’d like more info on Moving Analytics, you can email them at Hello@MovingAnalytics.com or contact them on Twitter at @movinganalytics. If you’d like to reach out to Harsh, you can message him via LinkedIn at Harsh Vathsangam.

You're listening to health innovators, a podcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adopters who are shaping the future of health care. I'm your host, Dr Roxy Movie. Welcome back to the show health innovators. On today's episode I'm sitting down with harsh, that Song Gam, who is the CO founder of moving analytics. Welcome to the show, harsh the morning. Dr Oxy, it's a pleasure to meet you and excited to have this conversation and then just discuss all things health care. Yes, absolutely so. You have such an interesting background. Let's start off by just telling our audience a little bit about what you've been innovating these days and kind of your background. That what led you to where you are today. Sure, absolutely so. A little fun fact about me. I've lived and worked in four countries, so in the Middle East, in India, in Australia and in the United States. So I'm just being globalization. Yes, exactly. I got the chance to experience a whole variety of cultures and and just societies and I think it's made me a better person for sure. But, you know, closer to my professional life, you know I did my PhD in Computer Science at the University of Southern California originally started their thinking I would do a robotics PhD and more work and you know, hard sciences and so on. But through combination of faith and interest, I think I ended up in health care and I would say a lot of my work has been in how data science can be leveraged to deliver better health care. Initiated a lot of work in basically creating models of the human body as related to how you know when you exercise, how do you burn calories and so on. Then start getting into essentially prevention and how we could change day to day behaviors based on data that we sense about you, and that was what eventually led to moving analytics and the work we do in cardiovaskt a care. So that's a little bit quick background. Would obviously happy to dig deeper there. Yeah, so tell us a little bit about moving analytics and when you started the company. Sure, so, depending on how you define starting, we started in two thousand and thirteen. So the thesis behind moving analytics that CARDIOVASCA disease is the number one cause of death and the number one source of direct and interact healthcare costs today. A lot of that is borne by health plans, but more and more is being borne by individuals themselves. As you know, we shift to the more hide it uptable health plans and so on. But the silver lining is that a large part of it is preventable if you can change day to day behaviors, and those that are things like getting people to exercise more, eat better, take their mends and so on. But it as we know, that there's a lot of slip between in the cup and the lip. Right like in a sense that the you can see you need to exercise more, but there are so many personal, societal or environmental barriers that can make a person not exercise, and so we really think there this is space for creating evidence based therapies to really help people to identify and then surmount those barriers from a behavioral perspective, and that leads to a better cardiovass outcomes and better heart health and so on. I'm just curious, you know. I mean we've had behavioral science kind of integrated into healthcare for quite some time now. I mean even just for the work that I'm doing, done in the past with just communications for different types of clinical programs where you're kind of segmenting that messaging strategy on different segments of the population to kind of motivate them in different ways. So how is what you're doing different? That's really going to drive resolve? Yeah, so I think it's a combination of things. Right. So behavior...

...change doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's sometimes you need a almost like a lifealtering event that happens for you to decide hat this is the time for me to change my behaviors so I don't have doesn't know, this lifehaltering or doesn't happen again. And that basically what led us to start our first product in this space, which is in this area of Cardiac Rehab, which happens after an acute event, like if you had a heart attack or heart surgery, and then we take you through a behavior change program that really helps you to improve your heart health in a way that you don't get a second heart attack. The reason why we pick that and why that's important from a behavior perspective is you literally had a life and death event and you know if a few seconds here and there, you you know, it could mean the difference between you being alive or not right and and then you're not motivated now, you probably never will be. Right. Yeah, exactly, and that's a actually a really great point for behavior change. And a lot of what we try to do is to write, try to get the patient at the bedside, even before they leave the hospital, to say and we capture them in that moment. You know, it's a it can be a very confusing time in a lot of patients have anxiety and depression of that time where. But we essentially try to work with them to say, Hey, this is not the end, this is actually new beginning for you and we would like to work with you to make sure that this doesn't happen again, or you can get even healthier than you were before so it doesn't happen again. And from that point on it's all about personalization, it's about convenience, so trying to meet the patients where they are and also trying to under rather than US dictating to them. Hey, you, this is what you have to do. We try to lead with empathy, right and essentially say what is your life like? What do you what are your hopes, what are your aspirations, what do you see as barriers to yourself and what do you want to change about yourself and then we start from there to build a program that makes the most sense for them. So and so it's those two things that I think are super important as well. So let's kind of dive deep into your journey. I love when you were saying earlier about like well, depends on when you count on when we start, when we started right. So kind of just go back to two thousand and thirteen and what were some of those things that you were encountering, where you were maybe like start, stop and just kind of give us some snapshots of the earlier days and what that journey looked like for you. Sure. Yeah, very insightful question. So I think to start with myself personally. For me, I did my phd and I worked at Microsoft and then I also did post doc at USC what became apparent to me was I really enjoyed building technologies didn't really want to optimize my right life around an academic life, which is, you know, publications, grants and so on. So I wanted to work in technology and create new technologies, but not necessarily optimized for the publication other aspects of it. So I feel just as a person, I was the kind of person who like to do startups and I think that was just something that I wanted to do, I was passionate about and if not this, I would have probably ended up in a different startup of spot. So I think that change the world right exactly. And now, with respect of that, one of the things that I think a lot of entrepreneurs get enamored with this the technology that they build and not necessarily the the the application or the benefit that they provide. So I was very lucky in that I had a very supportive PhD advisor, Dr Carlskatney, who's sort of an early investor in the company. to He did. He encouraged me to do two things. So one is, if you want to start a company, start taking classes. Just go start the company and learn so to get in the get out in the wild and do it. But he was also really supportive to me in terms of finding opportunities to get...

...some coaching, and so we had this opportunity to participate in this program called the nsfi core program, which is an interactive program where they encourage you to could n coode, get out of the building and talk to customers. So I think we had this tremendous basically two thousand and thirteen and eventually two thousand and fourteen, we got paid a little money by the government to essentially throw grant to essentially go out and talk to customers and build pieces right there and and and that's huge. That's a that's a great footing and foundation to start on. Yeah, exactly, and what we've learned through that. So, number one, it's it's super hard to go out and talk to customers. Can Be Scary, but you have to do it and the more you do it, the better off you will be. Number two, we learned like essentially we were basically a technology looking for a solution, rather than trying to find a true n need in the market that needed to be solved and then seeing if we can leverage our expertise to solve that problem. Right, so starting with the needs of a potential customer and then trying to find use your knowledge to resolve it, rather than saying, I have this technology. Would you want it that hard for you as somebody that wants to build something? I mean, was it just natural for you to start off with the problem solution, okay, this is what we can build, or was it kind of this you know internal struggle of like this is what I want to build, but there's nobody to buy this. I think there was certainly a struggle and we had to change our mindset a lot to say put away your expertise, like put away your what you want to do and really try to understand and try to empathize with what people are going through and and see if there's a solution there. And and there's multiple levels to that's there's like do people have a problem? Do they realize they have a problem? Do they is the is their solution really the right solution, or is it a different solution that you will come up with, especially coming in as an outsider into their world? Right? So, yeah, so I think those are all more subtleties we picked up as we get better conn the consequences of those decisions are are like game changers on whether you're going to have commercial success. If we kind of go back to what you were saying earlier about, you know, your mindset or goal of kind of integrating behavioral science in with this technology. If you would have chosen a different therapeutic category, that you might not have had as much success. If you would have chosen a different point within that care continuum might not have had so much success. And so many times I don't think that innovators are doing that type of thorough analysis to really, you know, especially when you can like, you know, build a solution that can help many people at many different stages, and I don't think enough people spending the time upfront doing all of that analysis to really be able to get to you've had a really terrible cardiac event, the trigger that creates the sweet spot for your solution. Great, and that's absolutely true. In fact, you know a lot of them from investors. You know, we get asked this question. So you were incorporated in two thousand and thirteen, but you didn't get us like, why is your revenue not fast enough? And Yeah, you have to explain to them that two thousand and thirteen to two thousand and sixteen was us just trying to understand what the problem was and in US investing in the long term benefit of the company rather than trying to find, you know, pushing something and been trying to get some revenue. But they're not really bully, I think, customers right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I think it was ea even more important for us because, you...

...know, me. Although I had a very interdisciplinary PhD working with the Department of Preventive Medicine and School of Medicine, I was still an outside I was a technologist and I needed to break into the world of medicine and really do my time there for people to respect me. For we learn the terminologies to me too, for me to know even simple like they're just sticks lingo that everybody uses. Yeah, and her names everywhere. Yeah, exactly, and also to to sort of flip the other side, like to bring that outsiders perspective. I had to know what the insiders are thinking so that I could bring the so I can then flip my from my left brain to my right brain or whatever it is, and then bring that outsiders perspective. So I think I would highly recommend that spending just without any agenda, spending time in the industry you want to sort of operate in and try to get really well worsed in that, and I think that pays off on the long term to and I think the best entrepreneurs do that really seamlessly and really thoroughly in the beginning as well. So how is what's the secret to sustainability? When you're you know, first three years are you're not even like seeking revenue, you're not selling anything, you haven't maybe built anything to sell. What what is the like? How are you building a sustainable company that way? And what is it? What's it like having those conversations with investors? Like, were you trying to raise money within those first three years and really struggling with the investors not understanding that you were still doing customer discovery and kind of like what you had indicated? Or, you know, were you doing pitch competitions and grants and other things to kind of create that sustainability so that way you weren't even fat facing that situation? Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. So I'll just kind of put a little personal tip bits of two thousand and thirteen was a very momentous yere for me because within a space of thirty days, like I graduated from my PhD at Defferent in my thesis, I incorporated the Company and then I got fired. So all three happened within like forty five days of each other, I think. So I knew survived. That's all right. Yeah. Well, I think in that sense I'm very lucky that my family and my spouse in particular and my spouse, as family, were extremely supportive in what was a high risk and you didn't even know what you're doing at that point. You know, and so I so I think I'll leave in your son in law. We believe in you. I think that matters a lot when I guess the point is that they believe in the person and not necessarily the solution or the or the idea. They believe that the person will figure it out and their supportive no matter what the outcome is positive, negative and so on. Right, so that's there and that makes a huge difference when you're out because you know that, hey, I have people supporting me. So that's number one. Number two, I think, is finding the right team members who are equally bought into that idea. So I'm very lucky in that around the time that I was starting the company, I had two co founders who were willing to take that jump with me, whom I met in Grad School and and I think what they've told me multiple times has been the reason we start working with you is because we knew you were serious about this and and that seriousness meant that we could be serious about what we're doing and work with you as well. So I think that finding those team members who also complimented my skill. So I was obviously more technical and more I'm all about data science, Dayta all that stuff, whereas others were more focus on business, focus, more on just actually building things and designing and so on, and I think that that is carried through through the entire lifetime of our company. I think everyone now we're, you know,...

...several, like we're in almost forty people now, and I think they're all at some level bought into the mission of the company right and and that's why they're doing this versus the thousand other things they could be doing in their day to day life. So that's number one. Number two, I think in terms from a more tangible finance perspective, it was a lot of it was just hacking to get their funds and finding ways to support ourselves while we were evaluating process. We were not ready for any kind of even angel funds at that point. So I think what we've tried to do is, you know, we all had their jobs. You know, we worked. I was still doing my post doc, I was doing my research. They're making sure I kept getting publications out so that I would still keep my job and not do other things. My other two cofounders had similar, equivalent versions of that, but we spent essentially, we work two jobs. So like we in the morning we work in our car on our regular jobs. The evenings and afternoons we would work in on our company and try to develop things more. And you know, essentially we would all meet in a coffee shop that was our office and just sit all across the table and work on things together and then come back the next day and we just participate in business plan competitions. We were really lucky that by being part of the USC network, we will we've able to get access to foundation money, grant money. I think we raised at least like two and Fiftyzero through grant money and you, and I would actually have to thank you, AC for that ecosystem support in the early days when it's a very fragile business, in fragile state of our business, and so I think all of that really helps. But I think at the same time we did hustle a lot. Like I would just put in a business plan up competition application every week and see what we would get, and we raised like k here twenty gaither and then just kind of survived there. So and and then it ultimately coming in US raising our seed, seed round in two thousand and sixteen when we got our first customer and we got our first like, you know, twenty Fivezero a year contract basically from a customer, and then just got a going from there, then on, there on end. So I think the lesson that for me personally is, you know, work, just try to find anything, any source of capital you can to fund it, whether it's, you know, getting a day job, whether it is getting that because and and find people who really believe in you, because at that stage it's really about that mission and dedication, and especially when the idea itself is just an idea in your head, it's not actually something that's out there at the marketplace, but you need someone that's crazy enough to believe this idea that's intangible. Yeah, and it's in hindsight it's been crazy to me how, like the you really have to have that vision that this is the way the world is going to be ten years from now and have that conviction that that's how it's going to be. and not everybody's going to believe you, but it's matters that you believe in it and you work towards it and sometimes there's a timing issue or maybe you maybe it's actually twenty years ahead and not ten years ahead, and so you have come back to it later, but it's I think that was what we were talking about a lot of people back then. We're like, this doesn't even make sense. Tell a health like, what are you doing with right, right, I mean it's just kind of rolls off the tongue. Now in two thousand and twenty one. Yeah, Hey, it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves you need to make to survive and thrive in the new covid economy? I want every health innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivot strategy, which is why I created the covid proof your business pivot kit. The pivot kit is a step by step framework that helps you find your best pivot strategy. It walks you through six categories you need to examine for a three hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses. As you...

...make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to make sure you can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details and opportunities. Learn more at legacy DNACOM backslash kit. Let's just talk about some of those accomplishments that you've had. Right. So you've raised, you know, correct me if I'm wrong here, but you've raised nearly ten million and funding. You've got over a million users and the platform and you also have some really big marquee customers like Mayo Clinic and Kaiser and high mark. That's a really great contrast from the two thousand and thirteen story. Yeah, yeah, it's not a feel good it does feel good, it's sometimes it's you know, you you, when you're climbing up the mountain, you have to stop and see the view and then go up the mountain again. And when we see the view, I think it were really proud of some of the accomplishtions we've done. I think there are a couple of things that through those. I think the logos and the fact that those, you know, extremely high profile customers trust us with their business is a huge it's both humbling but also inspiring to me and I really want to make them happy and I think all of us want to make them happy. The I think what what I'm particularly proud about is just a number of patients we've served whose lives we've improved. And as part of that, I think I'm also proud of the team that has joint Dick Force us together to serve and I think those two things are things that I just as I'm just as a legacy. I'm really glad that I've gone through this experience and and I hope that more people join us as well to this. It's well, you never know who's listening. So so kind of like the the in between. Kind of give us the highlights of the in between two thousand and thirteen and where you are now. What are some of those? Is You look back, what are some of those winning moves? It may be things that we would expect, it may be things that were unexpected that when you look back on it, you're like wow, these moves that we be made or that these opportunities that came before us were actually ended up being real game changers for us. So I think in Hindset, I would say three to four things. Number one is, I think US doing that initial eye core process which really made us very customer focused and not technology focused, and that has soaked into our DNA like at every level of our company. And and so we to the fact that are the model of our company's empathy, guiding expertise. So that is what we try to have. Everyone followed through. Yeah, number one is that. Number two, I think, is just our first study that we did with the WEA medical center, who still our customer today in Atlanta, and that was the first result, first paper, where we were able to show with our technology we were able to produce really meaningful outcomes for veterans and the work that they do and make sure that they reduce the risk of cuttivasculities. That was a kind of important moment for us, I think, the landing that first pilot customer. I think so. Yeah, I think it it was hard for us to as a startup a particularly in healthcare. Evidence is key, right, so you need to show that your technology actually improves lives or improves outcomes in some way. And and so really finding that earlier doctor partner who can who's willing to trust. Again, they're placing their trust in me as a person and founding team as people to say that...

...this is going to work out well and and just leveraging that. And I'm the V has been a great partner for us in terms of helping US validator technology and even support us through our growth as a company. So I think I can't say enough positive things about them. So Great. I think the two other points would be our first study with the like a health plan, which just namely Kaiser, that we started working with, and our first reimbursement that we received as a provider from another health plan and the high mark held. Those have been like really important moments because you know, once you once you break that barrier, it's easier for everyone else start working with you. Yeah, and so that and I think that's been the case. Now we're more and more health plans of covering us. It's a benefit, but I think those are kind of like the sort of landmark things that happen in our journey as a company. So as you were getting to those, those landmarks, those milestones, what was that like? You know, was it really easy? You know, you just picked up the phone, you just call them and in they immediately said, oh my gosh, harsh, you're so awesome. I love your vision. Yes, let's do it. You know. What what was that like and it you know, is there anything in that process that you uncovered that would be something worth sharing with the audience here? So I have to give credit to my cofounders who first of all found some of those deals, and I think, for example, are De Sonia, my cofounder, who leads our business initiatives. The high mark study came from him just sending a cold email linkedin to person there and he was lucky that the person responded and then that was the hookie. Got To basically get that going right. So you never know where that lead is going to come from, so you take your chance always like I think that's that's in everybody in the audience once a copy of that email. Right now. I'm just this is if somebody will publish it as a voter right. Yeah, I think the the other part, I would say, is really listening, even at that stage, listening to what the customers priorities are. So you know, maybe you have priorities like I want to validate my technology, whatever, but that may be different from the customers priorities and you want to either mold your priorities to match their's or find the intersection that that match, that is with their priorities. And I think the in high marks case, for example, the key was that they wanted to be able to look at their data to see if there really was an opportunity for cost savings in their cardiac population. is by working with us, and what we try to do is to make it as easy as possible for them to run that analysis. So we literally gave them things like CPT codes, ICD ten codes, we gave them a sample analysy sheet and things like that to make it as easy as possible to run that as quickly as possible, and that helped a lot, I think, in terms of high mark discovering that there was a problem and that they're and they're willing to take a pilot to validated. We solid problem and then the pile of the successful and things moved on from there. But that it goes back to that, you know, listen to the voice of the customer and what's happened, what their priorities are, before you mold your pitch to match their needs as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I you know, obviously there's this consistent theme that you keep coming back to, is is that customer voice that gets woven into the business. You know, I'm a huge proponent of that being part of the culture and just the fabric of the organization, the DNA of the company, and not something that you just did wants or even that you do once a year. It's just kind...

...of, you know, really valuing that in realizing how much of an impact that really makes on the business and the commercialization process hundred percent. I can emphasize that enough and to be clear, sometimes I fall into the trap of not doing that. So it's not something that you got to keep referring to that internally and keep coming back to us all. So well, and I think that goes back to your point where you have to have other team members that buy into this approach as well, so that way when we start to veer off that they can remind us, because it is really hard when you're in it. I mean just it's just such a knee jerk reaction to like I have a solution, let me go out and build it and deliver it and without kind of slowing down to kind of do that investigative work or messaging something to where it's really all about you and how awesome you are instead of what's in it for the target customer that you're trying to do business with. Yeah, I think it's it's a it's so this is kind of a point where I feel so I'm a PhD, you know, candidator or graduate and so on. As an academic coming into the world, you sort of wonder can I be a good salesperson, you know, and like you see those flashy sales people with, you know, suits and driving out the Ferrari and all that stuff and you're like, you know, that doesn't seem like me right at this point. So, but I think what it was really a relief for me was to understand that, say, sales is basically listening and and trying to understand what the customers problems are and to see if you can solve them. And and end of the day, the dollar transaction is a way for both parties to make each other a whole. But end o the days of what solving people's problems right and and there's an art to a sale, which is making sure you uncover the problems and find the right people to buy into sub implementing your solution and so on. But it is about listening and and to me that was a huge relief knowing that, because that's I can I can listen, I can always ask questions, I can be friendly and I'm not very pushy or I'm not trying to like, you know, like get people to buy cars right, like use cars, but I'm at the same time trying to just make sure that people are happy by working with us, and I think that was great because it's just I think, like from for someone coming in from a technical background, I think it makes it. That's what I would say, like, don't worry about it's actually great that you have the technical background, because your you can now solve the problem for people, solve complex problems for people. What you all need, only need to do on top of that is just listen to people and see how you can do there. So, yeah, sounds like you've got it mastered. Oh, you know, it's always a work in progress. For sure, I will. I've seen some really great listeners and I hope I can be like them something. So this one time I actually took a whole class in my bachelor's degree on communication. I had a twelve week course on listening and at the beginning I thought, oh my gosh, I think I'm like almost thirty years old. I've been listening my whole life. Why would I have to take twelve weeks of listening? That course was a game changer for me because I realized that I really sucked at listening and I learned so much. I probably only apply a fifth, you know, one five of that. Still have a long way to go, but I mean it really there is an art and really even a science to listening. Yeah, yeah, and I think it's the same even for our patients, right with coaches that we offer. I think a lot of what our coaches do is in the first week just listen and try to see what the patients lives are like and...

...and and I think that helps build trust to because you're willing to say that I'm investing my time in just understanding you, and whether that's in sales or in working with patients, I think that may pays off a lot in the long term because it's about the investing in that relationship and not necessarily about solving the problem then in there as part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, as as a matter of fact, my professor at the time actually published a book called listening pace okay, the exact language that you just used. I need to find that book on Amazon Article. Look at Africa. Yeah, I'll send you the link afterwards. So, as we kind of just start to wrap up here, like to talk about, like you know, where you going next, right, what's in store for moving analytics in two thousand and twenty two? Where does some of the things that you're really excited about and and maybe what are some of the challenges that your plan on tackling and in the upcoming year? So, as you know, as I've said before, our mission is to empower every individual to level life free of CARDIOVASCA disease. So I think to that end, we have a ten year road map where we basically want to offer more and moree therapies that cater to other indications, right. So a lot of what we're doing now is essentially trying to get more patients access to our core program which is in post heart attacks and post surgeries, and so we are looking to work with more help plans to cover us for more hospitals and doctors who refer the patients to us. We're spending a lot of time in the Midwest, so we work a lot in Pennsylvania and upstate New York and Illinois and everything in between. So just trying to grow a lot in that region and also expand to potentially other reason regions as well. So that's our short term goal. But then eventually our goal is to expand to other indications, so play their things like cardio oncology patients with the age of tribulation and other indications for whom we have is currently not covered as a benefit. So by doing that we want essentially push the science and push medical knowledge further and really make that solid dent in the universe that we were always looking to make the long term. So I think it's fantastic. You kind of have a vision for what's next, right, what's that next market or that next offer that you're going to be able to pursue after? But there's this strategy called a bowling pin strategy where you know each one of those markets are, each one of those products kind of represent a bowling pin. And most of the time when I'm talking to innovators, they get it's like that Shiny Opportunity Syndrome right and it's like they see all the bowling pins and you know, want to go after all the bowling pins at the same time or all or half of the bowling pins. You know right out of the gate, and what I really admire about what you're saying is that you're really focused and because you're focused with your money, your time and your attention and all of the effort that your team is putting through, you're going to have a much more success with knocking down that first bowling pin that then that's going to help you get to the next bowling pin and so forth. But I think so many times we're just like we're trying to spread ourselves too thin because we don't want to miss the window of opportunity for the other thing that we could pursue, that we end up not having enough umph for the first Bin and we end up knock not knocking anything over. Yeah, yeah, I think as an entrepreneur's very tempting to chase after the next shiny object. I think there was one quote from Johnny Eve from Apple that really resonated with me about focus, where he basically said pocus is where you know you want to do something so badly with every fiber of your being, what you're decided not to do it, even though you really want to do it and it requires a lot of discipline and and a lot of self control to get there. But I given I've learned that it's much better to be a very sharp knife than a than a blunt club when you're running a startup.

So then you can just move faster and be more efficient and then eventually, I like every company, you diversify and grow. It's a very large universe out there in terms of opportunities and that is, I think, something that I keep trying to tell myself and I would definitely encourage everyone to keep thinking about. What is that focus point? What are the ten customers you can make extremely happy and like rabbit followers of you before you expand to the next hundred or two hundred of them as well? For Them? Oh my goodness. Okay, so let's just pause there for a second and kind of it's been a little time with that as we wrap up, because that is also a real huge issue, is is sometimes we want to have fifty or a hundred customers, right, so we can make these numbers and kind of, you know, see this hockey stick, you know, scale, growth at scale, and but then we don't none of those customers become raving fans or brand ambassadors, you know, and we start to have issues with retention and attrition and and so I love what you're saying there is, you know, pick that target list, that Dream List, and really get focused on not only converting them, but then making sure that they do become those raving fans, because, you know, that's so article to crossing that chasm between that early adopter market in the mainstream market is having those people that are telling the their peers about your solution and really start to have that word of mouth momentum that is so important. Yeah, I can't emphasize that enough, and I think you know when we've learned that when you make your customers extremely happy and weaving fans of yours, they do your marketing for you. It's like the most cost effective marketing budget. So and so the and so we should definitely focus on that aspect and then there will be a time where you will have to shift gears to to leverage that initial tip of the iceberg to go to, you know, the inhare it's work as well. Yeah, I'm definitely not saying that the business strategy should be tend customers and that's it. Unless all ten were Nassa. So then write exactly. But yeah, yeah, I can emphasize that enough. That's it. So is there anything else that you would want to share with our audience before we wrap up? I think it's really just I want to emphasize our mission, which is we want to serve at least like a million patients every year. Right. So, and for the audience who's interested in working with us, if you feel your talents could help us in achieving that mission, there's this fun fact, like to say, which is patient who does Cardiovasco we have doubles our chance of living another five years and there are but two million, a dozen the US every year who don't get that chance. So we have the opportunity to give back essentially ten million years of life to humanity for a year. And what does it really mean? You know, in terms of the birthday, is the anniversaries, time spens, you loved once, and we really want people to help us in that mission and if there's any way you can contribute or an intro or your if you want to join our company, if you want to cover us as a benefit, we'd love to work with you and make this mission in reality as well. That's awesome. So how do people get Ahold of you? If they want to connect with you after, you could just send an email to hello at moving analyticscom or contact us on twitter at moving analytics, or message me via Linkedin or via twitter as well, at h Futsango. Yeah, perfect. Thank you so much for joining me today. My pleasure and is a great promosation. I hope the audience really loves it. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market and I value your time and attention. To get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to the show on...

...your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who share the show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Health Innovators.

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