Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 74 · 1 year ago

Undertaking the risks necessary to grow your innovation w/ Frank Ricotta


Having 30+ years in the business can give you more insights than a person has a right to - but it won’t give you all the answers.

And when you’re trying to reshape the future of healthcare with a product that harnesses the power of machine learning and puts data back into the customer’s hands, you’re pushing limits.

Limits can be unforgiving, but humility and tenacity can win the day, hands down.

On this week’s episode, come hear how Frank Ricotta, CEO of BurstIQ, is changing the world - one data set at a time.

Frank’s honesty and candidness while speaking about the ups and downs of running a startup are enough to keep all of us inspired and ready to push our own limits.

Get comfortable, Health Innovators, because Frank is packing all the receipts on our latest episode!

Here are the show highlights:

  • Knowing when it’s time to take back the wheel and change direction (1:03)
  • Making big decisions and taking risks (2:34)
  • Recognizing that all feedback is important, even if it isn’t always correct (5:20)
  • Why staying grounded and balanced is so important for entrepreneurs (25:10)
  • You’ll learn more from your failures than you ever will from your successes (31:17)
  • You don’t need to know everything - transparency and vulnerability deepens trust (34:36)

Guest Bio

Frank Ricotta is the CEO of BurstIQ, a platform that combines the power of blockchain, big data, and machine intelligence and uses it to build a platform for a person-centric health economy.

With 30+ years immersed in empowering people and creating innovative solutions, he credits his professional success to three guidelines: Make a difference, have fun, and make money.

Frank earned his BS in Computer Science from the United States Air Force Academy, and his MBA in International Finance from St. Mary’s University.

If you’d like to reach out to Frank, you can find him on LinkedIn at Frank Ricotta, on Twitter at @FRicotta, or find him on 

You're listening to health innovators, apodcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adopters who are shapingthe future of healthcare. I'm your host, Dr Roxy Movie. Welcome back tothe show healthcare innovators. Today I have Frank Racoda with me. Heis the CEO of Burst Iq. Welcome to the show, Frank. I'mreally happy to be here. Thank you. So I usually have our guest startoff by telling us a little bit out but about their background, andyou can certainly do that, but I want to kind of start off justa little bit different. How are you changing the world? Are we changingthe world? That's an awesome question. I mean one of the kind ofone of our foundational premises about Birst Iq is that we really wanted to impactthe whole the whole problem health access and equity, but at the same timereally empower people with her with their own data. I mean, there's somany people in the world just don't have access to healthcare and heal and basichealth services, even even more that have have no real documented identity, asan example, and access to financial services. So we wanted to take a runand trying to solve some of those problems. And so you started thecompany six years ago. Yeah, and the spring of two thousand and fifteen, almost six years. It doesn't seem that long. Please start thinking aboutit. To play. Time flies. What has that journey been like foryou? You'll start stock startups out there really, you know, these highsand these really low lows at some point in time. And you know,when we started started the company, nobody, nobody even heard of the term blatching. We use blockchain technology through the platform to enable some of our securityservices, but it was it was somewhat like living at dilwork carton, youknow, blotching what? I don't know what that is and I don't likesome of the other tech that emerges. Cloud, you know, are yougoing to put your day in the cloud? Yeah, I'm going to put myday in a cloud. I don't know what that means. And sowe started, we started down that path and had a big education ramp andpeople started trying to drive us into something that we didn't necessarily we were goodat doing but didn't necessarily wanted to be our core business. And that wasani, you know, basic analytics and and data and and so mid twothousand and seventeen beside. Hey, let's just rebase line of business. Whenwe we turned off a lot of our contracts at the time. are kindof round them down, successfully delivered them and re base line the business.So went back to ground zero and it was it was a pretty traumatic decisionat that point in time, but a good decision, I think. Yeah, so, you know, just explain what that was like. I meanthat had to be a very difficult decision to turn down business and risk,you know, everything that you had built... far and going in a completelydifferent direction. Yeah, you know, what I found is that I justI was I was actually I could I know exactly where I was. SoI was walking, walking down, you know, down one of the streetsin New York City. It just just finished talking with a potential investor andI'm saying, you know, we're just not really happy and this isn't thisis a float my boat. I'm not and I'm not feeling we're really accomplishingwhat we set out to accomplish with the original premises. And I took astep back and I know they're there's different ways of people talk about it.What's your why? You know, what's your massive transformative purpose and I wentback to the hotel room and kind of wrote it. wrote a little twopage or two to my team, in particularly my cofounder, and said,you know, let's get reconnect back to what what gets US excited and whenwe it was hard to make the decision because we know it was going tobe a little tough for the next few months, you know, particularly makingpay roll. We were self funded and yeah, but once we did it, it was like a burden was lifted. We were able to to really reenergizelots of aspects of the business and that that really turned it around.From there we got a couple cornerstone clients pretty quick and we were than wethought and really been on that journey since. Worth the risk. Yeah, youknow, and that's such a fascinating challenge or opportunity unity that you justdescribe, because I think health innovators face that often may be in different situations. It could be an investor that's trying to guide you in a different direction, it could be a really key customer, you know, it could be aCO founder, a team member, and so really I think, likeyou said, being able to document who you are and who you want tobe and what you want to offer to the world in that kind of asa rudder to guide you. Seems like that's going to be really important.That's right. And Yeah, and you know, when you have a whenyou have your what, you know, the the how? The how,can can kind of shit go in different directions? Should because, like youknow, the challenges is stay true to your values and what you want todo, but not get so focused that you missed opportunities to get there.And so that's why the how, the how, in in terms of howyou get there, you need to be very student what's happening in the marketand where you know where your open field is and really try to run tothat open field where you start seeing some adoption which you're what's your delivery?You know, it's funny that you mentioned that, because I hear, youknow, in my conversations with health innovators, I hear this dilemma often of howdo I know when is the time to stay true to who I wantto be and to too true to our course, and when am I actuallylistening to feedback? That's really incredibly valuable feedback where I may need to pinof it my business and juggling between.

NOPE, stay focused. They mightthink you crazy, but you're onto something versus like no, no, youneed to you turn aboard. Aboard, okay, yeah, you don't alwayswant to be the captain. Goes Down with the ship, that's for sure, and and that's that's why you have you know, it's always a bunchof market feedback. You know, had a friend of mine once tell me, is that half the battle of startups is still being there to play.And, as I say, you can, you can grab a hold of yourbig broad vision and where you want to be and where you want totake the company. Like, for us, is dealing with this self, dequityin it and access problem on a broader basis. But then decide,okay, am I going to do it from a BB perspective as a startingpoint or BC? So it doesn't you know, you don't have to compromisekind of the internal values to be successful in the marketplace and that that feedbackand Valit feedbacks important, not all of its correct, because everybody has anopinion that you have to you have to be a student enough to listen andto self evaluate on constant recurring basis. So help us understand what this fundingjourney has been like for you, because you've raised, you know, somegood money before the pandemic. Yeah, well, I you know, I'mthinking that was a big blessing for us to close, to close our seriesa round back in September with elsewhere partners, and elsewhere partners been a phenomenal then, a phenomenal investor from the standpoint, ex tremely supportive. Have some extendedresources that have been helpful for us and and that's really one of thekeys we had. We we are on and off again looking to raise themoney for your and a half. You know, we started we raise twohundred and fifty thousand in a seed round back in two thousand and fifteen andhad not raised any money from that point forward and anything of significance. Andand for us it was all about can we find a good partner, notjust money. Yeah, I've been down a path where I've closed some arewe've been in companies or like company. To close some investments and investor wasactually destructive and we didn't want to do that. We you know, wewere, we were, we were so focused on really somebody that be acreative to what we're trying to do, and I think we found that andelsewhere. So what, what recommendations do you have for folks that are inthe trenches today, that are raising money, you know, in trying to weighthose options and what's going to be the best path for them and whothey're going to be partnering with? What were some of those key decisions foryou? Well, I you know, investors have criteria. You know what, who and what they want to invest in. You know what geographic regionand they want to invest in. You should. You should do the samething. You know as an entrepreneur, you should. You should have yourlist of what you want from an investor, what you're looking for from an investorand and pursue that. And it's not all about how much money youraise or what the valuation is. There's...

...lots of other factors that go intothose kind of deals. Because, you know, we actually had had acouple opportunities that would have would have not diluted us as much, you know, a little better valuation, but it just wasn't a good cultural fit forus. So you have to kind of wait way those options, but knowwhat you want and it's just not about who shows up to say, yes, have your own filters and and and what I found over the years aswell is that it's like it's like anything else. Selling you I'm bestor startinggetting more interest when the interested, when they think they're going to miss something, and so you have to kind of create a little bit of that buyingfrends you as well, but do so on your terms is the big thing. MMM. So how has this global pandemic impacted Your Business? I guess, I guess you have, but ask this kind of Tony Cheek who hasn'tit impacted? Right, right, yeah, there been aspects in the market thathave been very positive, you know, overall, from the downpoint of moreadoption of virtual care kind of techniques and greater awareness on digital identity inthe form of health passports and how you do business and in electronic space.Those of all helped us in terms of getting over some of the education,current education and early adoption fears. But again we had we had another littleshift. I mean we were really a post investment. We focused on ona full enterprise enablement strategy and that market pretty much went into a stasis period. We see, most health health systems started focusing on how they're going todeal with COVID. They not a lot of new projects. So we tooka step back and launched an initialive called research foundry, really built up alot of the data collaboration parts of the platform and and really created a newopening. And so we're coming out of the back end of that and we'llsee if that was a good decision on on the as it translates into revenueand business growth. Well, global health definitely is more I think folks aremore interested and paying attention to global health. I mean obviously more so than everbefore, I think, as especially as Americans, you know, we'vewe've really viewed, oh that's happening over there, oh man, that's terrible, and then kind of back to business as usual. And I think youknow, if I look back and one of the lessons learned is for allof us that you know, what happens across the country, I mean acrossthe world, impacts us a lot more than we realize. Well, yes, you're does. I mean if you don't, if you haven't come tothe realization that we're all connected to pandemic, should have done that for you rightright. Yeah, we're we're as you said, an issue one partof the world turned into a global pandemic that impacts every aspect of our livesand it's been profound in many ways.

Yeah, Yep. So what doyou think is, what are some of the key decisions that you've made thathave led to your success? It sounds like what you start, what youstarted out as, has evolved over time to where you are today. Andso, as you kind of look back at that journey, what are someof the decisions where you're like, Oh, you know what, that was reallya game change or whether you realized it at the moment or not.Well, talked about one kind of rebase lining and it wasn't. You know, the interesting it wasn't doing much different at the core of the technology isreally okay. Where were we going to take it at that point? So, yeah, looking forward and some aspects is there's always an media immediacy infront of you and sometimes that's good and sometimes you got to look at okay, can I address that or do I have to look two to three monthsdown the road? And I think that was a good decision on our partto really emphasize some other aspects of the platform really start taking in different direction. It connected us to the international world in many ways, it allowed usto start working with organization such as OECD and in terms of regulatory guidance andboth on the financial service to side and then he'll side. It connected usback to the Department of Commerce for that strategic relationship. So it was reallygood decision for us to kind of shift, shift that way. And then Ithink, I think the second one was when we decided pretty early onis to hey, let's accelerate this data collaboration side of the platform for researchfoundry and I just just yesterday we actually announced the winners of a project wehad undertaken with American Higher Association and a Tatch you around a data challenge forcovid and it's impact on minority populations, and also two winners, which isUniversity of Michigan and Alabama. So was awesome. That's great. So tellus a little bit about that, that challenge. Yeah, the the wholefocus was to to create a create an innovation challenge really around data to understand, brought to understand more broad broadly, the impacts of covid on certain segmentsof our population, particularly, you know, less fortunate, less fortunate aspects ofthe population, minority populations, such as African American populations, native Americanpopulations, and and really really understand why, you know why, that they weregetting getting yet harder than everybody else. And the results. Now, Ilove to say I could summarize all the results. That getting pretty technicalfor me, but there are this is not a test. They're in theprocess of getting peer reviewed and all those results are going to be published soonunder the ausposites of American Heart Association.

So it's really pretty awesome. Yeah, what a proud moment for the work that you guys are able to do. Yeah, I'm it was, it was, it was a good culmination. I'm I was really, really happy with that. But you know,but the other aspect of that, which is which is we open up theplatform to, as you know, for free access for researchers and researchers andinnovators and we wanted we wanted them just to just to leverage things we've done, hopefully, you know, to move covid, covid research faster forward andfaster. But what we ended up but ended up happening as well, aswe really energize the whole innovation community and you know, we went from fiftyish projects on a platform to well over two hundred now and several hundred developersscattered around the world really all focus on producing some some really cool projects andwe got a great team in that a great partner in Nigeria, as anexample, in Australia, and they're just doing some fun and incredible things.So what do you think is next, like what's on the horizon? Howdo you see your platform being used in the future? Oh Wow, Imean that's that's a great that's a great question. You got a great question. So if if I have my drowthers, you know, it would be kindof the next great the next big platform. So you see all thesesocial tech platforms. Yeah, really becomes it becomes this kind of universal datachange platform and there's there's some emergent, you know, there's emergent technology,I think's going to accelerate that adoption circularly around the wthree seed Consortium's with whatis known as virtue verified credentials that really begin to mobilize a lot of thiskind of structured and verify data that we would that we curate and let youexchange it. So I'd really love to see us see USB one of thoseplatforms, with one exception. You know, I don't. We never want toreally own and control the underlying data sets. We really valued a visualprivacy and ownership. Big Difference, frank that's a big difference. Yeah,we're not a big fans. Not a big fan of that. UHH.Yeah. So, you know, when you think about the the global impactthat you and burst Iq team is is having, let's just talk about commercializingyour solution in different parts of the world. You know, I think that asinnovators, you know, we're always looking at, you know, bestmarkets that we can serve and because, you know, most of us thatare on the show in the audience is in the US, we have atendency to kind of think of, you know, America first for commercialization andmaybe some of these other markets around the... after the fact. But I'vehad a lot of conversations with folks who have had much more success in Europeor in Asia then they have in the US and then they use that successto kind of come back and use that to drive the success here in theirown backyard. So help us understand what that journey has been like. ForYou well, you know the I think, I think a lot of our excesssuccess early on really started overseas because from a US perspective, you know, quite frankly, we're bit late late to the game around blockchain watching technologiesand you know, early on it was a lot of the cryptocurrency phases.So the SEC put a lot of roblocks in place for companies to pursue fundraisingin that capacity, and so a lot of the innovation started happening outside ofthe United States and a lot of the really more advanced regulatory pushes and andfriendly jurisdictions, you know, started popping up everywhere but here. And because, you know, we're pretty good with that underlying technology, we started gettinga lot of visibility in the in these other jurisdictions and which allowed allowed someearly adoption in those areas versus versus here. Here we had a somewhat now playsome of that and pick up our early customers. But I think,I think block shame for us, you know, open the door or internationally, particularly were we're still one of the few companies squarely focus in the hellspace with the technology and and have have quite a quite a number of yearsin utilizing it. So so my next question for you. You know,I think that I'm talking about apples and oranges here when we're talking about warpspeed and being able to fast track these vaccinations. But I think that that, as well as just many other factors with the pandemic has has really shown, probably not us as much as some of the bureaucracy that we've had todeal with, that we can actually do better, we can be a lotfaster and we can do some things that maybe we thought we couldn't do foranother ten or twenty years. You know, how do you think that that's goingto affect adoption going forward? Adoption, and what sense in in any innovationand disruptive innovation and incremental and reimbursement models and, you know, thingslike blockchain, in any type of innovation that maybe we even haven't dreamt ofyet? Do you do you have any sense of how like maybe this hasbeen a springboard for new things on the horizon when it comes to the ecosystemthat we've been kind of forced to play in for a while? Yeah,you know, Um, I think I think are two aspects. You whatthey're? With all the uglingness of covid...

...nineteen in the pandemic and the humanimpact and suffering. There's been a few things that have come out that havebeen positive. Is One. It's broken down a lot of traditional traditional bearersin terms of in a bit in ambitions to collaborate. So were you mentionedwork. See that's a great example of a public private partnership that worked andand I think we're going to see a lot more of those kind of partnershipsin the advancements of health that don't necessarily aren't necessarily confined to a geographic regionor nation state region. I think instead of it's set a really solid precedenceto how to accelerate when we put our minds to it, how innovation cancome to the market really quickly and when you see things like blockchain and andthose kind of technology is applied right as we applied it allows it allows researchersand organizations to really stay focused on on are not having to worry about amI going to get my Ip compromise? Can I collaborate without without crossing thisbarrier? Will it help still help me in the competitive space? And sowe've seen a lot more willingness to collaborate and cooperate, particularly at the dateand data sharing side of life, and I think all that's a really positive, positive momentum. I think it was a good level set on on ttaking down our artificial barriers and working, working together. Yeah, I meanI definitely agree. I think that we've leap frogged. I mean we've donelike ten years worth of adoption in about six months so and then that regard, that is a huge silver lining for us. And I'll throw another oneout for you, because this has this is one of those two sides ofthe coin, good good and bad side. And Yeah, I think I thinkthe situation is really pushed this whole the whole knee need, or it'sput a spotlight on the knee for really solid, verified digital identity. Andwe see some some you know, some parts in the United States actually actuallystarting to to get behind that notion. But from a broader sense, ifyou think from covid health and commerce of now intersected. Yeah, you're goingto get on my airplane. Do you have your vaccine or have you beentested? If you're entering my country, are you going to be quarantine orkind of allow you to come in without quarantine? So this this ability torepresent aspects of ourselves in a verified way, as now as now really as reallytook to crude, and you're going to see that grows significantly. Downside, we got to really be conscious as a privacy side of this and itdoesn't doesn't get used for the wrong reasons. Yeah, yeah, so true,and I think we'll probably see more and more and more of those twosides of the coin as things continue to unfold. Yeah, yeah, so, you know, I think that you guys are doing some stuff that's prettyawesome and pretty revolutionary. When you think...

...back to, you know, yourcommercialization and maybe in the past and now and even in the future, howare you finding those early adoptors that are looking to embrace something new and innovativelike your platform? Oh well, you know, if you go go backto the whole crossing the chasm notion, I think when you just stay squarein the blockchain space outside of cryptocurrencies and hand and just a handful of cryptocurrencies, you know really hasn't crossed over that chasm in many ways. So youstill, while people are more familiar with it, they're still a little trepidation. But what what you're what you're seeing now is that because of some ofthe early doctors are willing to try it and really push for for meaningful projects, and even some of the consortiums that have that have pulled together that fromlarge companies. Yep, the support infrastructure as well as the technical the technologyecosystem is really matured quite quite significantly, and so now we're starting to seethe first the first beach heads in the other side of the chasm where it'snot just pure early innovators. It really is early adoptors that are looking todo something new and innovative in their business or create a new market opportunities.Yeah, yeah, that's great, great, great analogy, great story. Sothat you know, you talked about how, you know, being anentrepreneur has his upsin's dawn, ups and downs. How do you stay motivatedand inspired during this journey? Oh, you know, couple couple words ofadvice. No matter how old you are, you know, get yourself a mentorand somebody you can confide in. Be a mentor, because teaching andconveying what you do is helps actually helps you grow. And then you gotto have a good group of peers around you that are going to challenge youand not be afraid to whack you in the head when need be. Sothat's one. And then the second thing is there's got it. You gotto stay balanced. Yet if there been times in my life and some ofmy early companies was so consumed in the companies that other aspects of my life, my health and even in my personal and relationship suffered. And if youdon't, if you don't balance that whole mind, body, Spirit side oflife in in your personal it's hard for you'd be the best person you canbe in your company. And it's worth taking those times. In fact,when you think you don't have time, it's exactly as time you need toneed to take the cod the red flag right, I don't have time,I don't have time. WHOA, we need an intervention here. I've beenthere, that's for sure. So so, who have been some of those mentorsand advisors for you that's made of huge impact? And that's a that'san awesome question. You know, I've had. I've had a couple thatI've been steady for me over the years.

You know one one, one gentlemanin particular. I mean we're probably he's probably going on twenty five yearsand when I when I really need some sound words of wisdom, I callhim up and he's a retired KPMG partner. He was a kpmg when I start, when I set out to run my first company and one of oneof the Ur start running a company from a person who started a pretty sizeableventure firm start running he introduced me to him. He was my temp CEOand we've been friends ever since and I've looked at him on and off overthe years and he's been solid, actually a gentleman who's the CEO of oneof our customers. Now you know, I've been his customer, he's beenmy customer, he's been on my boards, I've been on his advisory boards.It's been a really good symbiotic relationship there and and he's another kind ofgot person. And then my cofounders. An awesome and awesome balance for me. And on the personal side, can't discount my wife. She keeps melevel and my and my and both I'm going to give Kudos to my mombecause you know, she broke a lot of conventional norms and has that entrepreneurstreak in a different way. Really great example. I mean she's predominantly beenin education, but she's been such an inovent later and education is one numerousawards and of being a superintendent of school district. She's an amazing lady.So I always give her Kudos. You know, that's really fascinating because I'vestudied a lot about different successful entrepreneurs and innovators and almost all of them havea great mom story. You think the gate Steve Jobs, you know.You know my dad. Sigh, my Dad said Dad's weren't great also.That's all what I'm saying. That always taught me, you know, guardyour integrity of you you nobody can take you have to give it away,and so a key lesson that, you know. But on his side,you know my I'm going to say my grandma. I mean she they starteda the immigrated here's, you know, opened a open it. So wasthe liquor store open. The liquor store was had a whole entreneur entrepreneur eventthen. So I think it runs into blood somewhere besides education and teaching.HMM, YEP, Yep. Just crazy enough to think that you can changethe world right now. So I'm a big learner. I I think that, you know, as much information as we can put in and consume andkind of take what we need at that moment in time. So do youhave any books, podcasts or any any resources that are kind of like yourGoto that you think would be a good recommendation for our listeners and viewers?Oh, you know, I'm I try to consume as much as possible.So you know they're they're Gosh, a...

...handful of great podcast some some inthe some in the health space. But I would say if you're kind ofa tech Orient Person, you know the a sixteens. He is a goodone. Yep, first of all people should be listening to your podcast.So that's why thank you for that. Plugs in recent horror would say they'vehad, always had a great series of podcasts from home different emergent tech.So that's a good one. That kind of stay because it's hard. It'shard, when you're focus on what you're doing, to see what the restof the wills doing it and sometimes you got to learn from adjacent space.And then I'm a big business wise it's old school, but I love Drucker, Peter Drucker. I think there's nothing better than drucker. And then there'sa series of good as series of good books on platform and platform business models. If you're interested in kind of if your business model takes you that way, I think there's a good series there. Hope that me. Yeah, Ithink it is it. The one that I read recently is platform revolution. Yeah, well, there's one that's black worm revolution. The TAP Scotshave a series of books on blockchain revolution. So if you're interested in blockchain,those are good. And cash. I have a couple here. Soyou know, the machine platform and crowd tractions a good one for startups interms of kind of just understanding how how you jamp through some of the businessside of life. I think those are all really good. So you know, our audience is a mixture of startups as well as, you know,large companies that are still innovating, whether it's, you know, within thatbig behemoth company, whether it's a separate business unit. So just kind ofthinking about them and in mind what advice or lessons learned you want to sharewith them. Before we wrap up, I don't be a fad afraid tofail. You know, failure, it's not the end of the world.I mean too often and went on the large side of life, large companyside of life. You know, people do failure, as as you know, putting their jobs at risk. But if, if you fail, ifyou fell rapidly or small, little failures, you learn faster and you're able tohave a greater and bigger successes. So don't be afraid to try anddon't be afraid to challenge the norm from the startup side. Same, samething. I mean it's all about it's all about getting out there and tryingand learning and trying again. Failure. I've learned more from my failures andto have from my successes and just don't ever shy away from you know,I'm so glad that you brought that up. I was just writing about that thisweek and you know, one of the things that I find fascinating iswe talk a lot about, oh, it's okay to fail, failures thepath to success, right it's breakthroughs are found in failure, but it's reallyhard to admit we failed. It's about it's actually when it's like yesterday,like if it's like five years ago, it's like, Oh, yeah,that was a failure, that thing I...

...did five years ago. But meand it is so hard to be that transparent and vulnerable of like yeah,I just fell down flat face, that faced yesterday, and it's I wonder, like if there's any science between how much distance do we need for usto feel comfortable and saying, yes, I failed, but you know,I don't know. I mean, I just know that people would jump intostartups don't like to fail. Yeah, that's the nature life. And andwe all tend to be overly critical of ourselves, you know, and probablyour own worst and harshest critics at times. And there is actually, I think, a level of insecurity that that is a motivating driving factor. Youknow, that insecurity to prove people wrong or to say I'm right, areto really to really achieve, achieve a milestone because you said you can,and and so when something happens, it changes that course. Is Really hardto accept. I mean, you know, the little ones are easy, youknow. Well, okay, we we try to addn work less,try this. As the big ones that take take a while to really levelset. And I mean it took me while even talk about my first bigone, and you know I had really successful company going. Yeah, theycrash and early two thousands a company just splattered and they ended up and insome pretty significant debt at at the end of that, even though we're ableto sell some of the tech and boy took it took me literally took meyears to recover to kind of regain confidence. It should have been a lot faster, but you know, that's kind of the perils of youth, Iguess, being young and naive at times. And but again, it's part oflife, right to be right. Yeah, you know, and it'sI think it's ironic because, you know, like if I'm pitching an investor,pitching a prospect, a customer. You know, we tend to thinkthat if we say that we have all the answers, we have it allfigured out and we've got it all put together, that that's going to makepeople have confidence in us and trust us and then we're going to be ableto win and we're going to be able to move forward. And what I'vefound in life is actually the more honest I am, I mean I'm notmaking up fail your stories, they've got plenty of real ones, but don'ttransparent and honest I am about what I don't know and about those failures.It actually deepens trust and deepens credibility much more than if I was trying toput on a perfection. So facade what you come across a lot more genuine. I know, I know. This just style of Arlo Company. Isthat always help people? Don't be afraid when you're interactor with a customer.Don't be afraid to say hey, we don't do that, we're not goodat that part of it. We're good at this part because at the theday they're going to find out anyway and you know, when they're interacting withyou and your you can be honest about...

...yourself, and I'm not you knowthere's a difference between being being humble that you can be humble with confidence.Yeah, right, right, be able to to acknowledge those. It's nota bad thing, you know, and in fact people like it's a lotof customers and people who work with find that pretty refreshing without having to stayso guarded all the time. Yeah, Yep, I couldn't agree with youmore. Well, thank you for your humility and transparency and candidness with ustoday. If any of our viewers and listeners want to get ahold of you, what's the best way to get in touch with you? Oh you can. You can find me on Linkedin. Feel free to connect with me onLinkedin at, you know, twitter's at F F Coda, or come findme at Birst Iq, Birst iqcom. Do you Aur Stiqcom? Thank youso much for being with me today. Frank appreciate it. Roxy, wasa pleasure, how to how a great time. Thanks for having me,you bet. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy workingto bring your life changing innovation to market and I value your time and attention. To get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to theshow on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thankyou for listening and I appreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Health Innovators.

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