Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 98 · 2 months ago

Steps to Increase Your Likelihood of Commercial Success w/ Brent Wright, Howard Rosen & Jeffrey Carlisle


Building a successful business can sometimes feel like climbing Mount Everest - daunting at best and impossible without the right gear.

Understanding the steps and strategies to build a successful business is a bit like following a trail. Sure, it takes skill, but it’s not rocket science - so long as we don’t get lost in the weeds.

Jeffrey Carlisle, CEO at Pneuma Systems Corporation; Howard Rosen, CEO and Founder of LifeWIRE; and Brent Wright, Associate Dean for Rural Health Innovation at the University of Louisville, join me again for another roundtable discussion on how we can cultivate the right gear necessary for getting back on track and building more successful businesses.

From cardboard magnates to mega-stars, we discuss how to recognize opportunities and capitalize on them while sticking to the basics - and still coming out on top (or better). So, come join us!

Here are the show highlights:

  • Is it innovation, creativity, or simply basic improvements? (1:00)
  • The language of innovation (8:11)
  • Are you an entrepreneur or an intrapreneur? (9:59)
  • 3 key steps to innovation (15:35)
  • The trench warfare of innovation (23:20)
  • Back to basics - the best practices around building a business (51:38)

Guest Bios

Jeffrey Carlisle is CEO at Pneuma Systems Corporation. He earned his ScB in Applied Math/Biology from Brown University. 

If you’d like to get in touch with Jeffrey after the show, feel free to reach out to him via LinkedIn at Jeffrey Carlisle or via email at

Howard Rosen is CEO and Founder of LifeWIRE Group. He earned his HBBA in Economics and Marketing and MBA in International Finance/Marketing from York University, Schulich School of business.

If you’d like to get in touch with Howard after the show, feel free to reach out to him via LinkedIn at Howard Rosen or via email at

Brent Wright is the Associate Dean for Rural Health Innovation at the University of Louisville. He earned his BS in Human Studies from the University of Kentucky and his Masters in Medical Management from the University of Southern California  

If you’d like to get in touch with Brent after the show, feel free to reach out to him via LinkedIn at Brent Wright or via email at

You're listening to health, innovators,a podcast and video show about the leaders influencers and early, adoctors who are shaping the future of health care on your host Doctor RoxeyMovie Welcome Back Health Innovators ontoday's episode, you're in for a real treat. We are hosting another executivebriefing with some brilliant leaders and great colleagues and friends, JeffCarlyle, the president of Numa Systems, Corp Howard, Rosen, CEO and founder ofLife Wire and Rent Wright, the Associate Dean for real healthinnovation at the University of Louville. Welcome back to the show guysso, as we think about our audience most of our audience, and I would thinkprobably about you know sixty percent or innovators, whether they are anentrepreneur or whether they're an entrepreneur. And you know we talked alot about on the show about how really it's not the technology that ends upbeing the problem with successfully commercializing something it's most often not even funding.Although we, you know, we know that there's some obstacles, sometimes withfunding, but it's usually not finding and it's not the technology. It is thecommercialization strategy and all those decisions that are made along theway. So I n, you know, invited you guys here today for us to kind of talk moreabout that. I've talked a little bit about bits and pieces here and therekind of peppered in throughout every episode of the show that we've produced,but never really had one episode, that's kind of just dedicated to thistopic, and so I think it's great to have you three here joining me todayfor us to kind of get your perspective and just kind of POW ow about this,like what are those key steps or stages when you're commercializing aninnovation and love to hear what all three of you think. But what do youcommercialization you're really dealing with coming fundamentally having tounderstand your customer on the customers needs because you got tobuild the commercializing, you got to be satisfying that need or a problemthat they have and you'll be able to present them withthe solution. So it's really being the first step is being to articulate thatand frankly being able to confirm that that target customer understands whatyou trying to solve and that there's interest for it, because, as many timesthat you know innovations and solutions, an developed in a garage for lack ofMeta term and go what a great idea. I think this is perfect, but they reallyactually never spoke to anybody about it or the target clients when he spoketo them shock and dismay. Oh we're not interested so inker step is making surethere's actually interest in it, a customer for what you've come up with aHoward. The whole focus should be on the results of what you're doing it maybe innovative. Okay, that's an interesting descriptor, but you're, notselling the innovation right, you're selling the results of what you do andokay. Somebody else may make an observation that it's innovative, butyou shouldn't be the one to talk about the innovation, there's an absolutedirect inverse relationship between the number of times innovation is mentionedin the annual report and the actual innovation in that company. Not surprisingly, right if you've gotto tell somebody, it's innovative, there's a problem, exactly that's why I keep mentioning howhandsome I am you know, no yeah, that was his key steps, leave,leave it to the academic. Here you know as Howard and Jeff or talking I'msitting here, trying to write a formula. You know us in using the using theterms. You know- and these are the...

...three terms that I've focused on wetalking about inovations, that's a given and we re and we're movingtowards how the stages to commercialization, but but I'm workingwith the terms solution. You know and if an innovation equals a solution,then you have a pathway of commercialization and maybe somebodywith higher order. Moth there you know, maybe there's a there's, a derivativeor some sort of calculus equation there that we could come up with, but reallywhat I've heard described is that the dilemma of a lot of inventors? I meaninventors, you know, consider themselves innovative, but they becometoo wed to their innovation and they don't really see whether or not theyhave a market. They just love. What they're doing they're just passionateabout that area? It's more of a hobby or it's it'ssomething! That's that really is going to be seen more by the market isindulgent and that's why it's very difficult to be disciplined and go tothe market and really ask the tough questions I hate. You know this is whatwe're thinking is, that is that the right style of thinking, because youknow the s the phrase begin with the end in mine I mean the end- is a sale.The end is commercialization and having a sustainable business so really havingthat disciplined and it- and it's not complex, I mean just to clipboard apendant, a piece of paper and just talk to people talking to people who areyour future customers make sure there's going to be a pathway because you hateto spend obscene amount of money and they getthere and then there's just pay. Nobody wants what you out definitely yeah, because if you investmillions of dollars in something before you do that validation. Now you getsome feedback that tells you you're wrong, Wen. You don't want to believe ityou're like O. NO, no! No. I have to keep moving over in this directionbecause I'm so vested can go back to my investors and my board and tell themthat oh well nope. I was wrong not at that state. I part of thatenthusiasm, of course, is helpful because until you've shown somebody notnot described it until you shown somebody the result of what you've done.They can't react to it right ever. Everyone knows right. They peopledidn't want automobiles right. They wanted horses that ate less food, yeah,that's what they wanted, a horse, less food, but they didn't want an automateelut once they were shown. That then exactly I can many cases go ahead ahead. Please go ahead! NO HEAD JEFF! Iwas in in the company that where we are working on a predecessorproduct that led to the one of the most famous commercial collapses of all time-and that was the segue right- no no product had ever been pumped and hypedmore no cross. We ever been pumped more than that and all the secrecy and allthat and then, when he came out it was a utter utter flop, and so that's a great example ofsomething that was very, very well executed, had lots and lots ofinnovation and absolutely did not make a difference in any anyone's life. That is the perfectexample, I think was Mac lost a lot of money there, but but but jeff's point in terms oftalk that Clason, you don't have that fine line, because in talking to themversus showing is most people, don't know what they don't know so asking them with spiring, notunderstanding the bigger picture is sometimes hard as well. So there is aline of how you bring that about a D and a process. It's not just ask onceand that's it it's an ongoing process in terms of commercialization, even interms of commentary and reaction with perspective clients, because it is,they don't know what they don't know. They know buzz words. Many cases youask in what do you need? That's likely the last thing they need, because it'sthe most recent buzz word. They heard, but it is that process of showing themwhat the what the needs are and what you're doing, because showingconsiderably better than a d than...

...talking about it, and that's a balancebetween investment and not investment. How do you far? Do you go down thatroad? As I o Jeff was talking earlier yeah, it's entrepreneurship? Is it youknow you're in a wonderful high wire act it just how much you Ling to lookas you go forward, so we're talking about customerdiscovery and testing. You know our business ideas that we have what's next,what you know? What do we do? After that? Let's say: We've got somevalidation of problem solution fit. Where do we go from there? What youmean you have you you? Are you saying that, after the stage where you'veactually validated the and use response- and they want it yep? Well, then theyget into an easy pace, kind of a make by processing scale you know, can, can you make it? How doyou deliver it? Those are kind of the mechanical ends of it, but if youreally gotten over that edge, where you've shown that crusters like it, you do the mechanicalthings, and then you have to spend a lot of time asking yourself. Who isthis going to hurt a right and not who's, going to help? Who is it goingto hurt who's going to want to kill this idea? Is it a competitor? Is it who knows what who it is, but someoneis going to get their nose out of joint if you launch this product and you needto be very aware of who will be upset by it and sometimes that pursuits people canbe internal to your organization like? If you talk about digital health and re,deploying resources, you know, meaning you'll have less clinical staff orwhatever it going to be there. You know the inclination there is perhaps notconsciously, but I I you're not going to get the same enthusiasm as you wouldlike, and so and that's what we always talk about in terms of innovation andthe hardest process we actually found is not finding the customer. It'sactually the implementation process, where you'ree, actually working withthe entire ecosystem of the company, were the organization to make sure theyall buy into what you're doing and actually use the product is just so many l, because you get thec suite into it. You get this senior vps get the vps it's down to okay, thewar, the trench warfare side, those are actually going to be dealing or interms of help working with the patients. Are they going to use it and they'regoing to help encourage the patients to use it or whatever? The solution is,but you ed everyone to buy into it and an implementation process to brent'spoint. We've talked about this in previous discussions that it can't takethem any more time to use is got to take them less time to use, and it'slike all those processes, because it take more time you're going to getagain. I don't have time for this, so it actually gets rather complex atthat stage, but you have to have that fully work through beforehand, throwthe playbook out once you get into the real world working with them, but atleast you're prepared for that entire process. Yeah. The one thing that comes to mindwhen i hear you guys talking is ai. So as i'm working with clients that ofreading some type of ai solution to market part of what the challenge orobstacle that they're facing is exactly what you just describe. Jeff was. Isyou know the people that you know? Yes, this is innovative. It'sgreat. It solves a problem, it's more efficient, it's more productive! Itsaves us, you know millions of dollars, but it also takes my job away or ittakes my team in my departments, team away and so we're going to come up withevery excuse in the book on why it doesn't make sense and we can't do itand you know yeah a bi, no doubt about it. So how you messagethat, how you position that is really critical and you can't position it wellor message it well, if you haven't done your research and analyzing thosethings that you guys just talked about,... know qualifying your customer inthe early days is really critical. So you look for those departments, impedimentdepartments usually the it department, but it could be anywhere and legal orit or some other insular group. You need to walk away if you've got aclient, an early client and you got a powerful person who's against whatyou're doing go somewhere else, because you need critical successes in the beginning andyour relationship with your client shouldn't be early on a vender supply,a relationship. It has to be a collaboration right, it's got to be apartnership and if one of those entities within that partnership isn'tworking for you go somewhere else. You clear as part ofthat process. You need that reference bo clients and those recognizablereference, bul clients to be able to help move that piece forward and if youdon't have that or if there was not a good experience, particularly as you tojust point someone's fat, powerful, powerful there, you don't want themtalking anything about you except glowing terms, if you're not going toget that, you know treat as a marketing in issue. You've got to find anothermarket and you got to find another plan because yeah you be dead in the water, so you guys kind of touched ontargeting and kind of identifying the customer. You know this is somethingthat i think seems really easy, but it also can be very difficult and i think,there's a lot of challenges and pitfalls around that, especially if youcan bring your solution to multiple different market segments, and then youknow, how do we identify them? You know how deep do we go so sometimeswe might say. Oh i sell to the doctor's office, that's my target customer andthen i've heard clients where they really don't sell to the doctor'soffice. It's maybe the referral coordinator or the practice managerthat's in the office, so i don't even refer to their target customer in theright way. So how are they going to message theright person or really understand where to find them online and present thatoffer to them if there's kind of this disconnect between who we're reallytargeting? So you know, what's your experience with that, you know: do youfind that something? That's really easy to do? Have you wrestled with it? Youknow: what's really worked for you well, so for my experience, it'sactually a very difficult process because, like everything else us go into the well, it's clear this is my client, but then goes down tounderstanding how the client works, and also where are you at? Are you dealingwith a national pair, for example, or are you dealing with a state, a morestate level provider or you dealing with a clinical group at a local level,because each one has a very different dynamic and decision process andelements that really tie to the business decisions that they makebecause each so each one is its own, complex organism that you have toreally understand? And again, especially when you starting ned,really specialize, you need to understand those local clinical groupsof that's what your specialty is or how the national works or how you know it'sunder. It's really getting a deep sea understanding to your point, becauseyou could be targeting the wrong person, the wrong decision maker and thenyou've put a lot of time and effort going the wrong direction in healthcare. It's almost impossible not to charge an impossible to target the rightperson, because the insere recipient is not the one who's making. The decisionis not the one he's paying for is not the one who's ultimately, on the hookfor it ever ever, all the all the incentives are disconnected so you it becomes very com very complex asto who to sell to, because you've got all these different stakeholders. Theyreally don't care too much about the...

...other yeah. I think these comments speak tothe cizon nature of health care as business bottle, and you know when youlook at this, you know hopefully going forward we're going to be talking a lotmore about the consumerism of health care, because the person really at theheart of health care is the patient and they're there. They end user here,they're the recipient, they're, the one e reporting outcomes on so it is true. It is that it's hard tofind the right person to target because being with the university, iget people contacting me all the time you know wanting to sell into theuniversity and i'm just very quickly say: look i'm not making that decision.You know i'm just going to i'm just going to save you your time, because ihave such a unique standing that i'm with the university, but i'm a i'm anhour and a half away working in an area that i work and people just look,people just look at titles and think you're. You can help them get into thewhole university and i just try to save people's time. That's so true! You understand you turn a, but brent sounds like you actuallyreturn calls, though, that puts you in a whole new category already, just byreturning a call. You know a couple of things come tomind too right. So, yes, i agree. You know. Health care is being a multi.Cided market has so many layers of complexity. When we think aboutbuilding our business models, sometimes we might think about building abusiness model just for the user or just for the buyer and not reallymapping out all of the different components for each different targetsegment. I find that that gets really tangled up and in er woven or you knowyou go to a website and so like on paper, they're, really clear who theirtarget market is, but then, when you go to their website or any of theircommunications and collateral that they're using to present themselves tothe world, it gets twisted. And so it's like really not clear who they'retalking to and what's that value proposition for who that specificaudience is more more pitfalls and challenges along the way. Well, youhave to find people who can support the buying process ofwhatever you're selling, but to have to also recognize all the people who havedetailed power and in a big organization yea. It often takes justone one entity in a group to be tallbecause the other ones may not, you know, want to stake their reputation or effort ormoney on something if they think it's going to be a nasar in the group. So unfortunatelyit's the war on ratio takes one in one party to kill an idea, and at least youknow almost everybody to forbore and how? How many of our salesstrategies are specifically looking for that blocker now they're, probablytrying to find the champion right or who they're going to suit's really toget that champion on board to actually point out all those blockers to extentthat they can hmm yeah. But you know what the churn atsome of these large organizations are so amazing. It's helpful, for you got agood six month run after that expect, there's gonna be a churn over somewhereand you have to be additional re education or a pivot somewhere else fora different potential person who may be a a sayer or an additional champion,but it's it's happened for more often than not i've had you know. The salesprocess is a year long, which i easily can be in that year, you're going to havemanagement, inflection points, either the direct champion or more likelytheir boss or someone else changes...

...roles, and then it goin start to crossthis. Over again and- and you know what i have to chimein on this one- i mean the politics of it. All. I mean the c sweet politics,the organizational politics. I mean it really. I think what i term you usedroxy the blocker here. You really have to have that baker and that pathwayopen and get people to support it, because you know only are you going toget day stayrs, but you also o also were going to have to deal with thehaters out there, because if you pick a really good product- and that makes itmakes the organization to work well is does well for the organization you'regoing to boost your cloud. You know her always the be people there trying totrying to clip you- and i hate that i really hate that. But ido you know you know at the university i deal with some young. You know earlystage companies, and i really i really try to position myself and how i bringthem in. So i try to remove some of the bureaucratic hurdles until we get someearly success or i to until we can sort of find the right time to move forward,because sometimes it's it's just not the right time. You know you, may itit's not against the product or the innovation. Is just that there's not aclimate to bring that into and you need to get through some other issues forthe organization that maybe that you know innovator, doesn't understand renttwenty thirty years ago they had an upper level managementmeeting at hospital corporation of america and they talked aboutinnovation and we happened to connect with in himlike three days after that event, yeah had we connected a week later, the halflife of that exuberance would have died, or literally literally, three days afterthis seminariat nothing to do with. They said: oh, that's innovation. I'mallowed to do that and they did it. But i'm telling youthe timing. I have any bad turning stories, but that was a good time storyor if we had come in a week earlier, it would have been nothing and a weeklater, it probably wouldn't have worked either. So how do you? How do you master? Thatis that just experience for you paying attention to some triggers there's triggers you got to payattention to there's so many elements that, quite in honestly, some of themore difficult ones can do penny the size. Your organization is sometimesyou have a hater using brentor, because there are a few of those because their incentive program for thecorporation is you get a double bonus if x, y and z happens, but yoursolution s, you just don't feed in their double bonus plan. And, frankly,you be, you know, maybe not push a side but you're not going to be the priorityfor this year until there's a double bonus, and sadly that's part of whatyou know. You know you see on the pretty large organizations, so there'smany reasons why you've got those blockers. So to the point that triggersin ter jeff's point was yeah. This whole conference said you no use theword innovation. So yes, for three days it was still resonating going. Okay, imay be a wee rewarded for you know, following up three days later andhere's something with the eye ward to use, help them to get fiscal year andsanity. You may be approaching a fiscal yearand someone literally might have you know, spend use it or lose it kind offund that it becomes funny money at the end. He at the end of the fiscal yearnow those are those opportunities are not predictable and they're, notparticularly public, but boy do they have an impact. I mean the time valueor money means so much different. So many different thingsdepending on when you are in that...

...budgetary cycle yeah, he goes back to the need for thatchampion in that organization organization targeted. So you get thatheads up he had to. I had a previous gasmentioned. The word trojan. I've never had never heard it before. We haveheard champion and the blocker- and you know the decision makers but chattrojan and the trojan was just the just the person that no one noticed that noone really paid attention to, but they saw everything and they were the onesthat were going to be able to tell you all the politics, all the double bonusin sights all the fiscal year. All the you know all the stuff that you reallyneeded to know from a sale standpoint to be successful, but you would very likely just passthem by in the hallway and not pay any attention to them. That can sometimes be the executiveassistant for the c thatif you've, a friend, the and genuinely for friend the people who are surrounding the ceo,maybe with not grand titles, but that that can be a very important gateway to knowing. What's going on. Okay, hey! It's dr roxy. Here with a quickbreak from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves youneed to make to survive and thrive in the new co vid economy? I want everyhealth innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivot strategy,which is why i created the co. Vid proof your business pisoti. The pivotkit is a step by step framework that helps you find your best pivotstrategies. It walks you through six categories. You need to examine for athree hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the sixcritical pivot lenses, as you make your way through this comprehensive kit,you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to make sureyou can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details andopportunities, learn more at legacy: hyphen daco back kit. What other steps anything else that wehaven't touched on yet key steps in this commercialization process start small, yes, with grove, prove it on a smallscale. You know someone walks into brent and hey. I got a a new fremoga,it that's going to save three minutes and okay. Well, let's let's try it andit's half hour or whatever just start small, because innovators think bigright and grandiose and sometimes psychotic, and only sometimes i think out, traoutguilty is charged. Well, maybe i was i question al game now. Do you think the anto and youthink about transforming the world? You got to start somewhere right and sostart on the smallest possible scale. You have filling in any technologicalgaps and just start somewhere and and lea and use those results, not theinnovation, but the results of the innovation to propel you forward and also starting small allows you todeal with. You know murphy's law. You know something's going to come outgoing about you weren't, expecting when it's a small scale, you could manage itmuch more quickly, much more easily and probably have the heads up. What'sgoing o occur, but also for the client or the perspective, client, it's not asdaunting for them, because it to deal innovation of going okay. I need thisdepartment of this department has his whole grand scheme of all thedepartments to involve and again creating this barrier. If you keep itcontained, keep it tight, keep it small...'re able to sort of keep that wholeperspective small and get it helps with the sales cycle, but also the lesspeople involved, the less thing, the more control you could actually managehow your products going to be used, because that's the other part of it isyou've got it. You got the sale. You've got the utilization, but if you don'thave some means of helping to manage those are going to use it for the firsttime you have no idea what they're going to do, because again, the clientsare are amazing at ulien a product in a way you could not even have positivelyfathomed, it could be used, they're, brilliant, that way, yeah, and so youreally want that kind of means of control just to contain it. Just forthat initial role at i think that is so critical, and thatis one of those things that is just overlooked. Time and time again, we aregoing on to the next sale, we're trying to jam everything into the existingsale and setting ourselves up for failure and and just not doing enoughof really being focused small and making sure that those early customersbecome raving fans to be those word of mouth marketers to help with the nextphase of growth in a similar fashion. You know under promise and over deliverm at every step. If you think you can dosixteen of something, you know promising ten and get all wrapped upwhen you can do when you do twelve m and that's harder to do than because itit really gets hard because you sort of want you know, you've got this momentumof enthusiasm trying to keep that sale going. So you want to be able to pleasethe client in advance. Say we're going to do this this and this, but it's anamazing discipline. You need to actually under under promise. So i want to share this roxy, and thisis in regards to this comments. I just was sitting next to a stranger. Theother day i was taking my my daughter and my wife shopping, and i was waitingon them and i was sitting next to another husband and just in theconversation it turns out, he was young guy and he successfully exited acompany, and it was nothing if we talked about success and what itmeant to have success, and he said you know he said i work my way throughcollege as a server. He said i worked as a waiter, he said, and it when i gotinto business at every point, i looked at myself as a server and serving the needs of my customers relentlessly, and that i mean the evenwhen even when i talked about i just said. Well, you know what kind ofoutcomes this product was making all the cardboard covering for all of themajor appliance corporations, that's where they grew this business to mindin tennessee, and i was a what kind o gonna do it. Somebody s got a verysuccessful. So what kind of outcome measures did you use? Yeah? Because iwas thinking you know percentage damage, for you know, return products. Thingslike that he's, like my customers were happy.That's my outcome, and i mean it was just it was so simpleand he talked about his business plan. It wasn't that good they just put wenthead first into it started started small, but that relentless focus onpleasing that customer and, i think, is to the point of making sure thatthey're just raving about the quality of your work, and do you think that's something thatwe're missing. You know i mean. Are we missing just some of the fundamentalsand basics? Yes, yeah? Yes, absolutely and health care health care, ironically,paradoxically, they're the worst, because our solutions are solutions andhealth care are so lucrative an if you...

...look at it's so lucrative. It's easy to,you know create something. That's you know hundreds of thousands of dollars,tens of thousands of dollars per ut, it yeah and forget about the people whoare going to be servicing it implementing it, monitoring it orreceiving it. So as un mental yeah yeah, so we're talking about a lot ofdifferent steps and stages, and i think you know it's evident just in thiscontent in this conversation that there's so many moving parts there's so many things that we have to.You know get right and we decisions that we're making. You know what are some strategies forsuccess. You know we're thinking about as you all being leaders, you knowwhether you're an advisory role, whether you're leading your ownorganization. You know what are some of the things that your guidance thatyou're giving to the the leader right, the ceo, the founder to help themnavigate that i think brench story. Just now is the best one hug, your customer know them very, verywell, listen carefully to them and make them happy. There's a boutiquesoftware company and cambridge. That has a sales budget of zero. The soundsbudget of zero and they simply make sure that every single customer usestheir product is happy right. They spent all their money on customerservice and customers. Just kind of accidentally come in the door, but it'slike a spider web once they come in they're not going to let them go, andso i think it's that circle of just relentless enthusiasm for making your customerhappy. That is a beautiful. I want to know thename of that company e yeah this year later, but he alsoboth things. A guy, i know, runs a business club in here in portsmith, new hampshire andit's a magical place, and i said, what's the key to it and he said: well,we just treat every single pine like they own the place. The tail well entails everything, butit's as simple as it can be and feel like they own the joint and it's amagical experience e g and it's repeating what you can,but it is no, it is really is no your customer and treat them don't run anddump there's many companies. I know now we experience and franklyi had maybebeen the beneficiary of business following who really run and dump theymake the sale. They go, here's the product and go. You know they kind ofwere able to push a sail through. They didn't follow through. There's nosupport the customer feels now. What do we do? Which is the lot, the polar opposite?What you need to do? They need to feel that they're important to you andbecause it goes back to if they feel they're important to you, they'll alsobe more invested in working with with your solution, your product, whatever.That is just because of you, there's a lot tobe said for that. Just that feel good. Okay, we're of value were not just o k,w a number to help their sales forecast. This month, hey brant, your follower iso k. I rent your cardboard magnet your cardboard buddy. Yes, i bet you candrop him with any bisiness. He could imagine, and he do quite well there's no doubt i mean he just had hejust tell about the look in his eye,...

...the spirit that the way he talked aboutthings that there's things he didn't like about being responsible for thebusiness he's glad to move on because he's at a different stage: basil life,but yeah- absolutely he's the type of guy you want to be on your tea. Youknow being advisor to be a board member a because he just you could tell hebroke things down. You know very simply, and i even asked him about health here.You know i'm like i love interviewing people. You know who i just meet, andyou know he was talking to me about health. I'm like what drives you crazyabout healthcare, so just great insight from people like that, but often timeswe don't bring individuals like that into health care, because even thoughthey're running a successful business they think well. Health care is not mychannel, it's not my lame, but i think we need more people like that. As wasmentioned earlier, that innovation comes from oftentimes, you knowdifferent disciplines, so i think we need to be more open to that and that's back to your comment. Youspoke before about consumerism, to understand and patient as a consumer,and if you certain more, you understand that more you can sort of zero in onthat whole process, because you've got the patient, you've got the provider,but it's satisfying all of them yeah right and understanding. They gotto be satisfied in providing value. Now the complication to your other point interms of the extra stages, the value proposition may be a little differentfor the patient than it is for the provider in your solution set, but theyall have to make sure you're satisfying those pieces yeah in in so get making sure thatyou've got the value proposition right for each different customer segment andthen being able to make sure that the people that are on the team that areactually that are communicating that. So i can't tell you i mean i don't knowif you guys face this or not, but you know every time i mean it's like eighttimes out of ten, whenever i'm working with a sales team or sales leadership,they talk about delivering value. But when you look at their communications,when you look at their pitch, when you look at anything whether it's writtenor verbal, it is a word salad. It is a word vomit it is.It is telling about their solution raving about it, whether they're, usingthe term innovative or not. It is. Let me tell you about my thing: it's notlet let me learn about you. Let me build report. Let me deliver valuevalue value before i ever even ask for anything, and it's like it's like thisdisconnect, because, fundamentally intellectually, we know it, but then weactually get into the mode. If, like we forget all of that, and we just go intohard, sell, hard, direct, sol right and there's so many things that we'retalking about here. That's not rocket science, it's just like best practicearound business, and so there's two things that come to mind is one thatyou guys already touched on. Is you know having an advisor like thecardboard guy or someone that's going to be able to see what you can't seeand be able to guide you to that, because, no matter how amazing we are,i mean no matter even how amazing the card cord board guy is like he wouldhave still had to have people around him to go hey what about this? Oh, didyou see this? You know because we just can't see it when we're in it and thenbeing open to what other industries are doing, because they are light yearsahead of us in health care. So, yes, we can't just bring them in and they'regoing to like solve. All health cares problems because they don't knowunderstand the intricacies we've got to have both on the team, no question having an advisory grow orwonder whatever to have to run ideas by invaluable. In fact, my first ca, youknow when i first came up with this idea. It was not from the industry, andi was convinced as being done before, so i actually had three people who werein the history who wer advisors, their sole job was to spend two years toconvince me that is already being done...

...and that i should just stick with myday job. Sadly, they, sadly they weren't defective and i got into it having but having that sound and theycontinued on its advisors. But having that sounding board is a great thing tohave just to throw ideas out of nothing else, that they're familiar enough ofthe business that they know what you're trying to do and to be able to bringinside from outside. Because you can't at some point, you can't see the forcefor the trees it's impossible, just because you're so deep into it. Youknow when paul mccartney dreamt the song yesterday he woke up.He knew the song played it on the piano and he fought for sure that he hadstolen it from not knowingly, but he spent weeks and weeks and weeks goingto every musician. He could playing it and saying. Where did i steal this frombecause i know i know i couldn't have come up with it in my dream, but that'sfunny. I never heard that before one other one other idea in terms of customer and guiding your vision of thecustomer. Take a look at competitors, training films for customers, forpatients in particular, be more often than not. You walk awaythinking. I don't know anyone who could follow these instructions in looking at training, documentationor training films or whatever tools they have is a reallyreally good way to see. Opportunities for improvement. Definitely and a couple of other thingsthat came to mind was just the np survey or satisfaction surveys again.These are things that are not like rocket science here, but i thinkthey're often overlooked, especially when we are in an earlier stage. Wethink of you know, building out those experiences, that kind of customerexperience and support much later on in the growth of the business, but i thinkthat's a missed opportunity for us so as we wrap up here. What is you know?Just enclosing? We've talked about a lot of pitfalls and challenges, and theresults were looking for, and steps and and strategies and tactics to besuccessful. You know what is your. You know, kind of party wisdom for today.What's one thing that you want to say to our audience that they need to bemindful of when they're trying to figure out their path to profit, and we have won you one thing to to say:if we can to do another friend, i know i not being fair at all to any of us,but i think and and start touching what we've talked about and that actuallycalled a little bit for jeff is a said. Another piece is understanding yourcompetitive set, because invariably, when you describe what your service isyou'll, be using buzz words, as you sort said, innovation or otherwise, andthey go oh it's just like x or i've just used. Why, like this reference,point, are going to be someone in your competitive set for the most part, andyou really need to understand that competitive set to be able to eithersay we're like that or we're different from that. You sometimes it's good,have a competitive set to say: okay, there's a vet. This is a valid solution.Other times is there's so much traffic in the area. How do you deferentia eyourself, and you need to understand that as well? You know seeing thetraining. Videos is actually very good to get insight on your competitor, butyou really need to understand that competitive sentence or and choose afew key ones, because they will be reference points to perspective clientshat you talk to without any question. Definitely so i just combined a couple of theelements we talked about, find a champion with your target market, start small and care alot about the end result. If you do that, picking your clients carefullyand and then you...

...ultimately know you really, you have tocare about the about the results of what you're doing and the and howyou're doing that, whether it's innovation or work harder or whatever it is, doesn'tmatter so much it's really. What did you achieve that change the process foryour client, the results? Yeah? I think that'sreally important to brent. I think once we achieved thatinnovative solution, i think it gets beale some fundamental principles andthat's you have to have good relationships with people, because eventhough you're dealing with technology, i mean it's still a human world andwe've got to work with one another and i think ongoing relationships oftentimes pay dividends, not just through contracts or cheaper prices, butthrough moree, productive, more efficientbusiness strategies and business outcomes- and you know the cliche theyo co say i think, plays well timing. Is everything and i think we heard a lotof timing examples and you know i wrote this down and underlined in all mynotes today. Timing is everything and you can have a great sand and thinkabout timing is everything it. It reminds me of the example of tablet.Computer. You know remember right before the big announcement of the ipadpeople were saying it can't be a tablet, because the tablet was tried and itdidn't work. Well, look where we are, and i think that it's an element oftime. I think it tilly ten o time. You know, i don't think we talk aboutmarket entry or market intur timing enough. There are so many differentpros and cons, or advantages and disadvantages of being first to marketsecond to market being a late entrant, and if we don't have a sense of thatmarket place and know what kind of entry we're doing and to the market,then we're not going to be leveraging those advantages or kind of beingprepared for those disadvantages and most of the time i hear what are youentering into the market when my products ready? Well, that's strategic? Well, it's always a joy to have youguys on the show. Thank you again for such a great conversation and forjoining me, and i look forward to many more together. You very much all right.Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and ivalue your time and attention to get the latest episodes on your mobiledevice automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast apt, likeapple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening, and iappreciate every one who shared the show with friends and colleagues, seeyou on the next episode of health innovator, a.

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