Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 75 · 8 months ago

Is building culture that important in the early days of a startup w/ Erik Osland


When it comes to building a startup, paying attention to the culture you build isn’t the first thing on your mind - but it should be.

There is a lot of work that goes into what entrepreneurs do - and a startup is only going to be as good - and healthy - as its employees. Build a positive culture and you’ll have positive outcomes.

Just ask Erik Osland of EvolveMd! He built a successful business using core values that include support, self-care, training, and creating a culture that benefits both customers and employees.

Come learn more about this win-win as Erik discusses this and much more in his recent episode on the Health Innovators Podcast.

Grab a friend (or a coworker) and hang out with us for a few minutes of healthy conversation.

Here are the show highlights:

  • How system disruptors can present entrepreneurs with opportunities for expansion or growth (6:16)
  • Focusing on quality employee relationships can boost positive patient outcomes (8:22)
  • Recognize the learning power of your mistakes (13:10)
  • You can create first, tweak later, and still come out on top (16:06)
  • Never say never - when a pivot opportunity presents itself, a learning opportunity is not far behind (20:40)
  • Self-care: Taking care of you will also benefit your company and those you serve (26:11)

Guest Bio

Erik Osland is the managing partner for EvolvedMD, a comprehensive behavioral health integration platform focused on program development, management, and implementation.

His education at the University of Arizona helped develop his background in leadership, management, and strategic planning.

Erik utilized that background to develop a process that delivers the best patient care and outcomes possible in behavioral health, while also minimizing barriers often found when trying to access those settings.

If you’d like to reach out to Erik, you can email him at, find him on LinkedIn at Erik Osland, or reach out to him on his website at

You're listening to health, innovators,a podcast and video show about the leaders influencers and early adopterswho are shaping the future of health care on your host. Dor Roxy Movie Welcome Back Health Innovators ontoday's episode. We have Eric Ostlan with us, who is the managing partnerfor evolved Ind. Welcome to the show Eric thanks for having us for ecited toSAR o story. We're so excited to have you here and kind of dig deeper intoyour commercialization story. So, let's just get a started by sharing with ourlisteners a little bit about your background and what you're innovatingthese days yeah. So you know our stories unique in thesense that we're tackling a very complex issue that exist right now inthe United States and in larger parts of the world around mental health andaccess to care. You know my journey into the space started about twentyyears ago. I graduated from H, University of Arizona Down Tucsin andupongraduation really entered the health carework force workingpredominantly on the the device and manufacturing side, and you know over the the following fifteenyears, elevated my position into kind of the national accounts roles where Iwork ponominally with large healt systems to develop services andstrategies for them to manage patient care and did a lot of contracting and velped alot of really great experience. And you know the time ultimately came wer. Ifelt that I was ready to take on the entrepreneurial journey and leftCorporate America about six years ago and and started at the time. It was a smallfamily shop and we opened the pathology laboratory where we processed issue andspecimen wor different categories of health care. That business wasultimately divested in June of last year, as so that we could focus on theproject that we were talking about today, which is you know to me theculmination of my auntenorship journey. It's a project that I'm passionate about, because I have apersonal experience in a personal story and I'm also passionate about it,because I feel like this Isanaria that I can make it. Our team can make asubstantial contribution to health and welfare of our community that whichinvolves our employees on the patients we serve so tell us about that personalstory yeah. So I had an experience that is very common when it comes toaging parents, I had a father who was chronically ill and he was still for along lone time about ten year period of time. My mother was the primarycaregiver and you know our journey really startedabout five years ago. Four years ago, back in two thousand and fifteen, mydad was prodically ill. Had Multiple Disease Tats an cleon set dimencia. Hewas on seventeen medications and he slept about eighteen hours a day...

...and as a family, we were having theconversation around. How do we provide care for my father is dad just really asick Guy Oras? He a sick guy that it's Bein complicated by the fact that he'son all these medications and then there were the financial considerations. Ithink my parents were spending about a thousand dollars a month on vications,even though they were a medicare, and I was in a fortunate position at the timeI had a pharmacist that worked for me on another project. He and I came together and we ran what is known as Medication TherapyMager program. With my father, we took some pretty progressive steps with my dad from Ha medication. frantkind of with the notion of you know, quality of life o versus quantity, andit was a great experience. I think it was the first time in a Lotg time thatanybody hav really taken hardlook at my father'SF r medications and looking atthings like dosing, optimization, Qolic, pharmacy, compliance, those types ofthings, and so we got really really interested in the category. We went tothe Arizona State, Positians Association, we said: Hey, there's thisclinical concept. We think it has. A tot of utility, gives a shot and findus a pilot. So theye found us a pilot out in the WestValley yeare in Foesix we launched that program back in tw thousand and sixteenwe ran the pilot for about six months and managed forter patients, and theexperience is great. I actually did intake for the pharmacist. So if you'refamiliar with that space, I did man, reconciliation patients would bringtheir bat round bags of medication in and and we recognicalad in the report,and then I would hangn the patients off to the pharmacist. To U D do a fullforty minute console. It was great experience. We learned a lot of lessonsnufver one. We learned that the business model we we would deploy toplug other things into primary care with work to plug other things. Othersubspecialties, not we learnd that there was a ton of clinically utilityas far as aligning parmasists with primnary care providers, O managecomplex patients, but we also learned the hard lesson that health carescomplex and paying for these things can be a challenge, and so, after runningthe pilot for six months, the practice asked us to continue. We didn't feelcomfortable with the payment mechanisms that existed at the time, and so wemade the hard decision to put that program on the shelf, but the takeaways,where the business model would work and something Madata plant came up. Thatwas really really interesting, which was we decided to spreen all of thesecomflict Cronof, the oll patients for the profession. This is kind of beforeit was invocoe to do that, and what we found was that forty percent of thesepatients with crin illnesses, screen positive for depression and none ofthem. I guess zero had ever had a bbor health resource, and so we said, hey,there's a huge on met need let's take a look at different strategies tointegrate services in primary care and, let's see if we can address this tissue,so we identified the model. I brought in areally strong partner, Steve Builgin,... help commercialize the program weplaced another pilot about six months later we ran the pilot for a year witha good deal of success and fast forward to today. We now have twenty one siteshere, spread across Arizona with some pretty aggressive expansiongoals here in two thousand and twenty one we're going to go from twenty onesites to somewhere in the neighbor of seventy eight in the next twelve toeighteen months. So it's going to be a a MU process. So it's such an interesting journey andsuch an incredible need today you know. Obviously there was a need when youwere able to discover that forty percent had had you know mental health challenges but hadn't been diagnosed orwhat weren't getting any type of behavioral health treatment, but whowould have ever predicted how we might be accelerated and thrusted into themental health concerns. You know that we're currently experiencing with thepandemic. So how has the pandemic impacted? Your Your Business or yourcommercialization journey? Yeah, you know change was coming from mental health and physical perspective,like we w thought leaders aninacodemia throughout the country. They understoodthey've understood for a long time that integratedg these two services togetherwould lead to better outcomes, but the change was happening painfully slow,and so I think if we look at covid and we try to pull something pos positiveout of it, I think that it has driven the need to expenite the process ofanygrating these two services, and so I'm really confident today to say thatten years you just won't go into primarico practice and not have accessto reasources W we're heading that direction and Covid is Expeti that now,unfortunately, covits also taking a system that was alreadystretched to capacity and added additional needs to it prevalence ratesright now and the adult population. I the US for underlying health conditionis robebaly forty, one percent, that's data from the CDC that was released ind,I think October, and also some really frightening metrics aroundsucidaliiation. You know now. Eleven percent of the US adult population hasactively considered suicide in the last thirty days, and I think, what'scriating within that Dati said is if you live Ata younger people right, th,eighteen and forty four bracket. That number is even higher it's about oneandfive, so you know it's really presented us to put the situation wheth that wehave to. We can't ignore it any longer. We have to get into addresson M yeahfor sure. So so tell us a little bit about this commercialization journey.You know you kind of told us a little bit about your background and how yougot started. But what do you think you know kind of as you reflect on thatjourney? What do you think are some of those key decisions that you made thathave led you to the success that you're experiencing today? Yeah, you know we were fortunate that alot of really sure people did some very...

...wonderful work in front of us todevelop modoes today, which is called PSYCHIAGIC, clarit care, and so we knewthis model was a good platform. To start with, I thinkwere we Garen some initialsuccess as we didn't initially look at it from a colnotherapytic perspective.We looked at it from an operational perspective to kind of figure out. Youknow what are the Chanoundes were going to face with scaling this model, and specifically we looked at theprovider base and very quickly. We identify that there was a systematicissue when it came to caulotherapist or social workers, whichis you know. If you look at that stuff class of employees, these folks aretypically the most compassion folks, you will ever meet it, made sacrificeseconomically to take on the positions that they take on because theygenuinely care about people and then we as a system. What do we do with thesefolks? W? We give them complex, patient caselooks, we overwhelme them and weburde them out and so turnover in these two subsets is very, very high, and sowe very quickly identify the need to look at how we would pursue employees or futureemployees and then ultimately support them throughout the employee life cycl.And so you know, we tell a lot of people that we are an organization,that's provideel focused, which is a little bit different than when youhear in the Health Careye here a lot of like we are a patient, fifisios focusorgization. Now we care fearly about the patients we shoul Ar, but we justfeel like if we attack it from a different angle, which is let's bring.Let's identify great people, Bring Hem the organization and then let's supportthem both personally and professionally, and if we deevelop these folks alongthe way and they're healthy and they're happy guess what the product and thetherapyic in enventions they put out ame high level and we're going todeliver good patient Charaterssolv, so wee just always knew that that wasgoing to be a core focus and we fuilt that into our multi. And so that's putus in a position today, where it's a very competitive landscape, to hireantertain social workers and counselors, and you know we're viewed as a goodplace to work which is nice. And so I think that is one of the most importantaspects of our journey is that you know we can do all of these things, workflowand efficiency perspective and from a financial modeling perspective. But ifyou can't go out and hire good people and then keep them you're in a bad spot,yeah, it's really belase. It's a key part of our growt, the our gro story.So what about the the providers themselves? Yourcustomers? How did you peruade them to adopt your solution? Because you know practices can be? You know, kind ofstuck in their old way of doing things, and you know you're kind of putting theother other team members that aren't part of their. You know direct staff into thosepractices, so tell us a little bit...

...about. How did you persuade them to say yes and come on in? It wasn't easy at the Star it's gettingeasier, because the market's changing in in people are more open to thedialogue, but man it was a tough log and you, fortunately our backgrounds. We have some traditional salesexperience and we just knew how to kind of slog it out in the trenches yeah. But you know I think fast pord to today,and how do we gareur adoption and Taid? You know integration can be difficult,especially when you think about physical and Behavioro, because they'vebeen so separate and they're, almost like two different languages, and sonow our Valueo prox practices is look. It can be difficult, but that's whatwe're being hired to do right is to do the heavy lifting and work with you toset protocol and understand how you want to manage your patience both fromphysical, an a behavorabl health perspective. But once we understand howyou want to masure your patient vopulation, then it's our job to go andatd. Do the Havy left to design the word close train, the staff hire thestaff, place them managin them and make sure the program is not only successfulfrom an economic perspective but that it's sex successful on going from acolinical perspective, so you know our value prop. Is You know we're going tocome and do the heavylifting on what is a very difficult process of integratingvaberall services, Yeah Yeah? That makes sense. So one of the things thatI also hear pretty often is you know you might get. You know some of thesecompanies, health systems or practices to say yesto whatever innovation, whether it's a product of service. Whatever that lookslike say yes, but you know, like anything, you've got a mixbag when it comes to the actualimplementation on Upperan aptanization of that. So you know you have blockers, you havenasayers and so tell us a little bit about how you what you encountered andmaybe how you overcame that yeah. So you know, we've been fortunateto make some Mif stakes when it comes togarnering support across the entire stakeholder environment and and throughthose mistakes, Wev learned really good, let tons that will leav the way but yebut yeah. I think it's going into organization, that's expernalidentifying who the keystake hollers are n. The decision makers are reallytop to botto, and then you know having a colabortive conversation and buildingcondsensus, because the mistakes that we've made is t at we've been asituations where we have top level executive support, but we didn't getalway across the spectrum and we ultimately ran to challenges that wehad to go back and course correct on, and so you know really identifying allthe stakeholders are in the process. You know helping them understand theprocess, the model, how we cooperate. You know we are not consultants, we area truth clinical operator, so we lay people in these clinics and then we canto support them. So this is really a...

...very high level of alinement with ourwith our customers, so ere yeah. Absolutely so it sounds like it soundslike you know, like many innovators, you've run intosome obstacles in some roadblocks along the way, but you've made sure that youwere, you know, paying attention to that and learning and then being ableto adapt, which is really what we're all experiencing in this journey. Yeah I mean the staks are part of theprocess right and heyit's Longr learning fom those takes we make and aslong as we have good intentions, then you know we should be able to to moveforward and I think that's a message that we give to all our employees aswell right. You know we want to Qlip our folks with H, ubility to makedecisions for their sites for the organization and typically little tellfolkes. Look if you're thoughtful about the problem and you come up with asolution and we make a mistake. That's fine! As long as you were thought whenyou work for the process, mistakes are fine as long as we have the ability toaddress them a an then they learn from them in the report and obviously that'sa big part of the culture. You know when your leadership being able tocreate that culture to become a learning organization, that's embracingthat yeah yeah and the being alording orizations. That is one of our portents. So yes yeah! So I didn't know that, but I could already sense it. Oh yeah, so getting the first pilot turning thatinto a pain customer, you know tell us that story. You know it's funny. We used to say thejoke where when we first started, we didn't have all the answers and it wassometimes taking these folks. That believed in our journey and leaved inus and just kind of grabbing, bother shoulders and just say trust US N, andit wasn't quite that simple, but in a lot of ways our first few customers,really they just bought into who we were and when we were trying to achieve-and you know they knew this- wasn't just a slam, try to make some money andget out it was really Trini Airdiim. So so I took a lot of trust from our CORobset of customers and I think we're very appreciative of that, and I thinkyou know we worked our of the last few years to prove ourselves there, and soyou know initially, you know at any time you're driving change, Doig,something different you just you need to help your customers understand thejourney you're on and they need to trust you and understand that you have goodintentions and if you do those things they're going to give you a little bandwith and and we ere fortunate, you know we gotin. We executed, we created a statable program, maybe not a really efficient organization, but we created one thatwas sustainable and then we built of a bit- and we spent the last four years,trying to figure O t how to make this more efficient, how to make the clinfaloutput more positive. How to add additional you know modules whether it's diabetesor pain management to it, so really just Continueo andhance upon it,because our our journey we're nowhere Tut near the end. You know we kind oflook at this as a versioning field, where certainly one of the firstplayers and our goal is to advance our...

...module to the point, whereas nouplayers onter the market, it's going to be very difficult for them to competebecause we are constantly reinvesting in the organization, the people thatthat supportit Yeah Yep, always one or two steps behind you right and and not having all those learningsto long to leverage along the way yeah. So, as we kind of think about, like youknow the future, what's next for you in two thousand and twenty one and beyondyou know: Where do you kind of see the growth and how that's affecting yourcommercialization yeah? So you know growth is exciting.It can also be painful if it's not done thoughtfully, and soyou know for us. I think it the core of what's going to happen for us. In thenext year we are going to grow and well grow substantially. You know we're. Wewill bust likely our F FT CAULW triple this counter year, and so with that thecore objective is, is: Can we grow and retain our culture, and so we've madesome significant investments in our intournalent, an structure to preparefor that growt. But you know growth is coming both inside the state of Arizonaand outside you know we we do have an aspiration to be a natonal provider andthat that will become a reality this year and so there's new markets. Thatwill be launching and announcing your in the very near future. But you know beyond that. I think youknow one common theme for entrepreneurs is especially with the startup, and Iguess we are started up. Is You know? How do you fund these activities? Andyou know the typical journey and there's a lot of different ways to getthe N game? A lot of folks will see t external investors and give up eqity.You know our perperspective is we want to bootstrap this as long as we can andwe've been able to do that up into this point and we wil continued down thatpath in two thousand and twenty one and so weve really lovege strongrelationships and these usual lending base. You know we've learned lessons aboutthe importance of devolving relationships with a bank andspecifically a local bank that can actually be invested in your business,and you know I think, we've probably experienced the frustrations that otherother small business has around SBA lenning and access to capital. It'sjust not not necessarily as as easy or as smooth as sometimes you like it. Butyou fight those battles, get dapt, and you know we've just really focused onthat as kind of our angine. For growth on e capitalization side, yeah, that's good! You know, everybodytakes a different path and it sounds like that's working for you yeah. You know so far I giving up partof your company now, no, that we're GOINTA hold on toit as long as we can, because we think that's part of the special sauce aswell sure yeah. So, let's kind of just go back to thecovid right, the covid impact that it's...

...had on small businesses and growingbusinesses, but also particularly businesses like yours, where you'reliterally placing people into a medical practice. So you know I talk to clients all thetime and you know there's a bit of a panic of like Oh, my gosh doors areshut, conferences, aren't happening, practices aren't letting people in, andso how are we navigating that? You know, and it's really forced us toreally think about connecting with people in a moredigital and virtual environment than ever before. So you know, has yourmodel changed where you were tapping into some of the tella health modalityto be able to augment what you might have been doing in the practice? Yeah, absolutely, I think, likeeverybody, we had to pivot very quickly in two thousand and twenty, and you know it was a tough year in a lotof different ways, maybe more emotionally than anything but but t. But there was also some greatlessons to be learned and I think the virtual platform. You know everybodyhealthcare learned about value and the efcacy of this. You knowwe as an organization feel very strongly about personal connectitionwith patients, and we feel very strongly about the notion that we canmost effectively deliver care in an environment where we can sit in frontof a patient and when that patient is distradge or upset. We can embrace thatpatient, but COVID has taught us that we have to have alternative streams tocommunicate with patients, because maybe that is a better avenue for thepatient's to access care and in the curent environment we have to, and so we did not embrace virsual care at allleading up to covid and we were forced to pivot very very quickly- and I wasPOB say within two weeks of kind of be onset and shutdown. We had vivited over,we had our fots up and running on a system and- and we effectivelyconverted and the net impact of that conversion was number one. We couldservice the existing patient face, which we saw grow by about twentypercent kind of withinter, esisting, Clenex, Jus, basicy, all that'shappening in the world, and so we can embrace. We could seemore patients, our no show ray drop from about forty percent down to twentyfive. So that was a positive anil and you know I think, cllikly. I thinkwe learne that, like this is a PLAF. This is a platform that you can deliverbeabor helt through, maybe not it's, maybe not as affications as the face toface, which will always be our poor business. But you know this is a goodplatform for Sertin people in certain market, so yeahwe yeah I mean that you know a hybridmodel. You know thinking about just asindividuals as people where we all have different preferences and in being ableto accommodate that so even past the pandemic, those that still want toconnect digitally and those that still want a human hug.

Yeah I mean I want to say Tha, Othousand and twenty one's going to be here. The Hubs Again D, we're going toget ACK Aerit, wait yeah, I also yeah yeah. So you know, as you kind of think, backon your journey who has been instrumental in this. You know whetherit's been like your rock and your shoulder to cry on or it's been. Youknow somebody who's been mentoring and advising you you know having thosetypes of people in network it is so criticallyimportant. I feel so strongly that everyone needs a thinking partner,that's external, to the organization, to really be able to help us see things,maybe that we can't see internally so who is that been for you and and Hel? That's tell us thosestories yeah. So I totally agree. I think it asa organization with a learning culture. You know we have to be willing tolisten to other voices both inside an outside of organization, but you know I've been really fortunate. Ithink it starts with my business partner, St Builtion, I've known Stevefor a long time, one of the most thoughtful individuals that you everhave- and I think you know what's bic te grave for US- is we both have braixskill sets and, and they compliment one another, and so you know Steve Reallyhas bed. You know the PUPOPA voice in my head for the last couple of years,if buil this now we've been going fo this process together, and so it tartso Steve. You K, Ow certinly, my wife, it's tough, you know we try an have alive, a ballance Lik. I don't talk about work, a whole lot. If I, if I canO, I don't bring a computer hole at all, that's just kind of a little ofline, sothey try to separate it. But you know beyond that I've been fortunate ses of FortnAsreally, get good metors in the marketplace. Folks that have gonethrough this journey, maybe not not e baboral health, but in a businessperspective or on prpreer perspective. So you know, there's a there's five or sixpeople that I won't call out, but there's these are fos when I run upagainst a complex situation that I maybe don't have the confidence wir theexperience with I reach off the to them. I asked Om, then their opinion, and- and I listen and you know beyond thattoo. We we also understand that we have someLeefuses, that we can fill with really talent, folks, that we've beenrecruiting and bringing really shure people in the organization that reallyadvanced what we're able to do and how we can operate. You know you touched onsomething that I'm starting to see this pattern, as I you know talking todifferent innovators and a different company sizes and stages, and it seemsas though, which is not really surprisingly surprising, but I justdidn't put it together is that for the innovators that are leaving amental or Behavioral Health Company, you all have a tendency to have just some different habits aroundtechnology around rest, around boundaries between work and personal. Iwas fuck speaking to someone the other... and hers was a Mental HealthCompany and she literally talked about turning her phone off on Friday and notturning it back on until Monday morning as an as a startup entrepreneur, andyou just said that you don't take your computer home, you you guys are blowingmy mind right now, I mean especially, for you know, startup entrepreneurs. I mean that's just it's a rare thing and I can onlyimagine how that's really helped. You will create more balance between yourpersonal life and your professional life, which makes it all around better and then just also recharging andrefreshing, and I don't think that's something we really talk about enoughin this entrepreneurial or commercialization journey. Theimportance of making sure that you, as the managing partner, don't burn out yeah a N. I wish I could stay that I'mperfect when it comes to habits around Selfcare, but you know it's an important aspect.I think you know more and more people are learning about the fact that youknow look if I run this is a marathon, that's a cheesyanalogy, but yeah it's vinally important. You know.I am also probably a believer that you know part of what we're steying from amental health perspective. The US might be might be related to this thing. TToMian were too connected an is to program to get certain responses fromus, so o no, I do mitigate it. We certainly have the same proch with ourkids and how the look at technology yeah, but you know at the court of itow Yo, look at technology and working from home. There has to be Balance Yeahand you have to commit every day to doingsomething for yourself and that can be meditation. That could be exercise thatcould be whatever is that's important to you, but it's really. It is key tokeeping you healthy and happy, and you know for us as entrepreneurs. It's hard, I mean everybody does, isjurry it's hard and if you don't take some time to reset, then you're goingto be bad spot down the line. So it's important. So do you think that you'rejust more tuned into that again, I'm not claiming that you're perfect aboutit. You know and then trying to set you up on some false expectations here, butyou know: Do you think that, because of the business that you're in that you're,you know creating that for yourself and for the culture of your organization,just because you're seeing the impact of not doing some of that yeah I mean, I think you know, based onthe industry, we're in. We understand how important is but, but I also see it.I know how I feel when I reset or MI exercise or if I go for a walk, so Ican also feel it, but you know we're also accountable forit I mean we have a leadership bonus and one of the components to quallbyyour bonus is daily self care. We track it on a habit tracker to keep peopleaccountable, and... know it's just a core part of whowe are and we want to encourage it for everybody in orgization. I love it. Everybody that's listening.I hope you hitrewind and take notes and adapt that for your own organizations.You will thank yourself for it as well as your employees. All of your everyoneon your team will thank you for that, and I mean you know we probably don'thave any. You know in specific scenarios about this on the impact toyour bottom line, but it's there and you will be able to read the benefitsof that one day in the near future, if you'renot already benefiting from it. I totally agree Oy Tro, so as we're starting to wrap up here.What are some lessons learned along the way, some golden nuggets that you wouldwant to share with our viewers and our listeners, who are you know atdifferent stages of the innovation process? Maybe large organizations thatare ininnovating internally and maybe a separate business unit or some otherstart up ontrepreneurs that are kind of hand in hand in the trenches with you yeah I mean there's some lessons thatI've learned from other oncerpreneurs and, like you know, I really like CyrSerrb Lakeley's story. If you've never heard of on spings, I don't Owanyspanks, but I still like her story and o come on talk about a poyetention and the factthat you know, as you build an organization early on, she took it verypersonally when people would leave the organization and, however time she'slearned that different people have different journeys and he shouldn'ttake it personally and that's certainly something that I revine myself as webring Yiu people on and People Gan. But you know beyond that, like I wouldsay for me, you know perspective wise. What has changed over the last tenyears is how I look at the role that employeesplay and organization in our success, and you know so many times you can justlook at them as cogs in the wheel and replacable, and you know that might help the bottomline, or that might you know, help your shareholders but a in a very short period short periodtime, but in the long run that that doesn't help the organization. Itcertainly doesn't help your employees, and so you know we really tri culturally to bring ingood people that are lined philosophically and we care about them.And that's you know to me: That's the thing that, as we grow, it's going toget more difficult because were a large organization and it's hard to knoweverybody on Personal Elev, but weyou really do generally care about people,and it is a priority for us and we think that that's going to Leav to thelost offere suspet of the organization and success me Tto a lot of things Imean to. We help more people. It means that the organization prospers and froma financial perspective, it means that we generate positive, regustrain,that's marginally aligned with our expectations and those things don'thave to be separate. You can treat a good market an so you know H, that'smy big takeway, but beon that you know being ot purse hup...

...and I think the biggest reason it'sTouh is that mentally vaxing you live and Breet, and you know, as you'rebecoming an entreeneur. You know there. There is a certain thing that most ofthis fell, which is like this dread. It's dread, it's the sphere of thingsthat could happen and it's natural, and I think this wis another reason whyStaly selfcare is so important: it because Elstu to address those feelingsand come out the other side with more productive approp. Well, I think thatsays a lot about you and about your leadership. You know you're talkingabout employees and viewing them and treating them like human beings. Youknow like how you would want to be treated and then being very intentionalabout the culture that you're creating, and those are two things that I hearleaders talk about. Obviously, but it's not something that I hear a lot ofstart up. Entrepreneurs talk about like those are things that people think areimportant, but it's like fhase, two or three of the business when we are nothaving to you know just roll of our sleaves and get stuff done and likegrind grind grind, and so I think that's what I'm. You know reallyhearing that a start. Contrast from the stories I hear from a lot of otherinnovators, and I would encourage everyone to think about culture thatfits into the employee dynamic much earlier than we have traditionally asentrepreneurs yeah, it's waysyer to instill culture,whet you'V got ten employes, versuo thousand Ighso start early and and makeit a very deliverate act is as you grow, it's just a very important centralfocus for the organization. Yeah Yeah. Well think so much for sharing yourtime with us and your experience in stories. I know that our listeners andviewers have gotten some valuable insights from you. How can folks get ahold of you if they want to follow up with you after the show yeah? First andfour of most thanks for oping Ison, I really enjoyed the conversation. Thankyou for letting Ta share kind of our story. I folks want to to get in contact with us. You can reachme at Eric or ik at evolved, ND atsevolved mdcom. We have a website atthe same address heads up to everybody. Listening we've got a major rebrandinginitiative underway right now, so in the next six day weeks, you'll see anew website for US launch with some more information but yeah happy o chatwith folks that are interested in what we're doing and and thank you, CA, prhato ro awesome. Thank you so much for being here all right. I wanled it. Thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and Ivalue your time and attention to get the latest episodes on your mobiledevice automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast AP, likeApple Podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening, and Iappreciate everyone who share the show with friends and colleagues Seeyou onthe next episode of Health Innovator.

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