Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 107 · 2 months ago

D2C: How to solve gaps in your path to commercial success w/ Elizabeth Ruzzo

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The first rule of successful commercialization is mapping out your path. The second rule is understanding when you have to adjust direction.

Where to start; where to go; whether your product caters to consumers, providers, payers, or all three can change over the course of your commercialization journey.

Dr. Elizabeth Ruzzo knows this first hand and she’s bringing us the scoop on how her startup was able to not only meet a need, but make that solution enticing to both customers and payers alike.

Dishing on everything from out-of-this-world-crazy statistics to successfully weighing the pros and cons that line your commercialization path, Dr. Ruzzo delivers on key insights and strategies we know you’re looking for.

If you’re trying to figure out which commercialization journey is right for you, you’re not going to want to miss this episode!

Here are the show highlights:

  • The crazy research statistic you haven’t heard about (1:56)
  • Understanding where to start your commercialization journey (8:25)
  • How to empower consumers with consumer-first healthcare (12:39)
  • Weighing the pros and cons on your commercialization path (15:18)
  • Data’s influence on audience message mapping (23:10)
  • Influencer marketing - will it work for you? (25:01)

Guest Bio

Dr. Elizabeth Ruzzo is Founder and CEO of adyn, a company focused on bridging the medical research gap and making scientific discovery more inclusive.

After more than a decade immersed in the study of human genomics and medical genetics, Dr. Ruzzo began noticing large knowledge gaps in medical research and information. It was then that she decided to build a new standard of care and work to close gaps caused by historic inequity in medical research.

The recipient of many awards including the Charles J. Epstein Trainee Awardee for Excellence in Human Genetics Research, and the Jo Rae Wright Fellowship for Outstanding Women in Science, Dr. Ruzzo completed her graduate work at Duke University and postdoctoral research at UCLA.

If you’d like to contact Dr. Ruzzo directly, you can email her at hello@adyn.com, or find her on LinkedIn at Elizabeth Ruzzo, PhD. If you’d like more information about adyn, visit their website at adyn.com.

You're listening to health innovators, apodcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adopters who are shapingthe future of healthcare. I'm your host, Dr Roxy. Movie Health Innovators.Welcome back to today's episode. I'm sitting down with Elizabeth Rousseau, whois the founder and CEO of aiden. Welcome to the show, Elizabeth.Hi, thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk to you. Itis great to have you here today. So let's start off by sharing alittle bit about your background and what you're innovating these days. Sure. So, my background is in genetics. I have a PhD in human genetics andgenomics and I spent many years looking for genetic causes of diseases. I spenta lot of time looking at both epilepsy and autism, and a lot ofwhat I realized in the course of that decade plus of research was that therewere a couple of health in equities that I kept experiencing. So the firstwas that any time I went to do a genetic study in a non Europeanpopulation, I had less statistical power to make the science same kind of discoveriesas I could in European population. So explain that a little bit. Sure. So basically, genetics in the early days did a lot of sequencing ofEuropean individuals, which meant that all of your healthy controls that you would comparedisease population to would also be European. So if you wanted to do thatin a non European population and look for in our case we're looking for alot of rare variants, if you didn't see it in the controls, youdidn't know if it was truly rare or if it only looked rare because wehadn't looked in enough well matched samples. Okay, that makes sense, Yep. Yeah. And the the second how the equity that we kept seeing wasthis medical research gender gap. So this became especially apparent when I was doingwork in autism, which has four times as many males as females that getdiagnosed with autism, and so we were working on understanding the biological basis ofthat and it became clear that there were just far less research studies done tounderstand women's biology and women were intentionally excluded from clinical trials for many years andnot actually required to be included in them until one thousand nine hundred and ninetythree. Okay, wait, yeah, it's crazy. So we even whyaren't more people like even talking about this? I mean, I've never heard thisbefore. It's a pretty outrageous statistic. Yeah, and I think that peopleare also other people and companies and...

...institutions are working on it, butit's shocking. And so we even had this problem not just in humans,but even down to animal studies. Like animal studies were focused on only,you know, male mice, for example, because it was thought that there wasa lot more variability in females, including because of their hormone fluctuations,which is part of what I now interested in studying. Right, and turnsout hormone fluctuations have been in and out of a controlled study. So youwant to actually understand that variability and and use it to your advantage to understandwhat's actually going to happen when you bring something to market, especially and inthe case of drug development. So when you said intentional, it wasn't necessarilyintentional to be biased or sexist in the medical research. It was just moreof like ruling out so maybe the additional complexities or variables within the study.So kind of simplifying the data or the study exactly like it makes your lifeeasier to have a really homogeneous sample set. This happens a lot with clinical trials. To, though, have a very long list of requirements for whatit takes to be eligible for that clinical trial, and it turns out later, when you go and look at those data, that in fact you canmaybe have helped a whole lot of a broad oder subset of people, moreheterogeneous population, but it just was easier to start with that homogeneous that yeah, which I do see that very often. Why that real world evidence, postmarketing surveillance, is so critical, because it's more of a regular populationinstead of whatever was for that example, in that particular clinical trial. Okay, exactly. So one thousand nine hundred and ninety three. So what happenedthen? So then they created requirements in the US that required that women wereincluded in every clinical study, and so we have slowly been getting better andbetter at this. But what aidence? So now you ask what my innovationwas. I found it a company called Aiden, and our mission is tomake scientific discovery more inclusive, and so in order to do that, we'restarting with working on things that were previously ignored. Primarily working on helping individualsin need of birth control find the right birth control for their biology. Sowe've created the first test that's designed to prevent birth control side effects. Andwhy is that important issue? So there are well, maybe I'll have yougas. Do you want to guess how many birth control options are available inthe US? Well, my husband had a vasectomy, so that was myrout. Lucky, so I have not stay tuned into the both world ofbirth control, but I imagine they're quite...

...a few. Yeah, so thereare nearly two hundred options available in the US. Ever, guess that?And you know, women use birth control for thirty years on average in theUS. And the other important thing to remember is that birth control is notjust used for preventing pregnancy. It's also used as medicine to treat a numberof reproductive disorders, or at least manage their symptoms, for things like endometriosisand pcos. So the problem right now is that doctors have no way topredict ahead of time which patient is going to experience which side effect, whichis why the majority of women have to try for or more methods to findone that works for them. HMM, okay. So so then let's swearyou in the innovation process. Now. So we are currently running our pilotstudy and we are basically starting with two of the most dangerous side effects,so risk for depression and risk for blood clots. And so the way Ican describe a little bit about how we've developed the product. So it someat home test kit that's ordered by our doctors that then get set to yourhome. You Take US saliva sample for us to analyze DNA and a smallfinger spot of blood for us to analyze hormone levels, and then we generateour report that includes your readoubts, some from both your genetic risk and youryour hormone levels, and then we also provide a way for you to understandthe pros and cons of all the available birth control options that are out there, and we provide a tele medicine visit with with providers that we've trained specificallyto not only understand the biological readoubts we're giving, but also help you understandwhat your how that fits in with your own reproductive goals and priorities. Right. So the other really interesting thing about birth control is there's preference involved.You know, some people hate having to remember to take a pill at thesame time every day. Some people hate the idea of having something permanently implanted. So our providers are really focused on making sure that the patient feels empoweredwith now having all the information at their disposal that they have to make thebest possible decision and hopefully avoid that that long arduous process of trial and error. So I think you know there's never a only one commercialization path for anyorganization. So kind of just take us back to maybe some of the earlierdays, depending on whether that was sixty days ago or six years ago,when you were determining, you know, which path you were going to take, who it's going to be your target...

...audience and what was going to bethat business model around your commercialization strategy. Yeah, so I went back andforth, to be honest, about if this was best to try to startin a clinical setting or direct to consumer, but what I realized was that itwas ideal to kind of have the best of both worlds. So we'rehaving physicians involved in the process from the beginning so that they can which iswhy we built in that Tele Medicine visit, so that we can have the medicalcommunity see that what we're doing is scientifically robust and accurate and that itwill actually make their lives easier. You know, the average contraceptive counseling appointmentis thirteen minutes in the US. So they don't have the amount of timeor the amount of information that we are going to provide for them making thatdecision. Wow. So we're starting direct to consumer, also in part becauseyou can get the prescriptions by mail order right now and a lot of peopleare doing that. There's also a push in the US in a number ofstays it's I believe it's already thirteen states where you can get birth control overthe counter from your pharmacist. And so to imagine, you know, birthcontrol is kind of in flux where people need it, they might need tobe able to get it discreetly, they might not have the resources to beable to go out of their way to visit a doctor, and so we'rereally thinking about accessibility and also thinking longer term about how do we partner withthose those doctors and clinics to help make their job of prescribing the best wecan. So so essentially, the the entire experience is being triggered by theconsumer instead of by the physician in the normal or traditional healthcare model. Correct, Yep, okay, and so the consumer is triggering that. And then, of course, in states where they can't, whether they can get itover the counter or whether it's prescription base, they're still going. The next stepis, you know, you've built awareness and demand with a consumer.They raise their hand, they say yes and then they tell a health visitor the quest they order the test. Technically it's ordered on the back end. We basically collect enough information that the doctor needs to agree that they area good candidate for getting this test. So that's all kind of behind thescenes, ordered for them, and then the test results also get approved bythat clinician before the customer sees it again. So then after the customer sees theirresults, they have the option to schedule that tell medicine visit and gothrough the test results and make that contraceptive counseling appointment. So who's paying forit? The Tele Medicine visit, what...

...the test and the town? Soa lot of times when we're talking about director consumer, we're talking about cashpay. Yeah, and this seems to be somewhat of a unique model.Possibly so we yeah, so right now we're starting as cash pay but,as I mentioned earlier, we're really focused on accessibility. So what I thinkis unique about aid and as compared to a lot of tests that are outthere, is that it is providing medically actionable results, and so our hopeis that, because you're actually making an impact, that helps have economic outcomethat's favorable for the insurance companies, which is what really matters to get coverage, that they would be interested in covering this test for their customers. Sothat is definitely what we are working towards. I think it's innovative, I thinkit's an innovative business model and I think that the timing is well,I guess your data will tell us right and then in the near future,but I think the timing is really ripe for Consumer First Healthcare, where youknow, as consumers, we're making different choices than the healthcare system would makefor us, and more choice, more empowerment and, frankly, willing toput some money out of pocket to be able to express that choice. Ithink we're seeing more and more of that happen. Yeah, absolutely, Ithink it's I think it's more important than ever that people can make and formedand personalized choices about their sexual and reproductive health, and I think that onebenefit of this nightmare that we've been in, which is Covid, is the availabilityand comfort that people have adopted with telemedicine and with at home testing.Right people are giving themselves covid tests at home or getting them quite frequently,and so I think people see that that is is freedom, right to beable to understand what's happening, and we're hoping to do the same thing withwith birth control. I've ordered blood tests online. I have you. Yeah, and how is your experience? Excellent, good, and it was so quick, so confident and I got the panel that I wanted instead of thepanel that the you know, that came with my insurance. Yea. Andthen I've done the hormone testing online and I've done the allergy testing. Nowwe'll say actually, not the allergy testing. It was more of it wasn't whatyou're allergic to, but it was what like works with your DNA.O, cool, different way to describe it, anyway, and I identifiedall of these things that I shouldn't eat and I was like, yeah,I'm not given that up. So I I mean so the whole test modelworked. But then I was like yeah, no, right, I mean theyyeah. It's interesting how sometimes knowledge...

...of that information still doesn't change behavior. Now, if they had told you that, you know, you hadsuper high risk of breast cancer and there were more frequent screenings you could door things like that, you might have been more motivated to do that.Then, you know, give up tracolate camp almonds. Oh, such astable exactly. So as you were kind of wrestling with this idea, whenyou were saying that you went back and forth. What were some of thosethings where you were looking at the pros and cons? You know, wekind of touched on some of them, but, you know, is thereanything else that would be valuable to our audience on some of the pros andcons that you weighed as you were looking at the different commercialization paths you couldtake? I think there were two that really pushed me over the edge.So when I thought about what it would look like to do it and inexisting health systems, it required that you were confident doctors had written down birthcontrol side effects. HMM, which, as someone who was gas lit bymy medical professional and told that I was not having birth control side effects whenI was. There's no there's a very low likelihood that that's captured and it'sdefinitely unlikely to be captured as structured data, meaning it might be written in notes, but that becomes a natural language processing, you know, data miningnightmare. Yeah, so that was that was definitely in the cons category andin the pros category, or con for going in the the Bab route andand pro for the direct consumer route. is also that ability to consent themto participate in research and to be able to recontact them. So what Imean by that is, with our mission of making scientific discovery more inclusive,we're hoping to that people will understand the importance of that larger mission, thatthey will recognize that we are trying to make up for decades of people notstudying diseases that primarily affect a war majority effect women and girls. And soby opting in, you can help us by letting us do things like reachback out and say hey, have you ever experienced Dur and fibrines? Haveyou ever experienced this other thing, and really be able to help make discoveriesthat we will then publish for the larger medical community for everyone to benefit from. Yeah, Yep, okay, that makes sense. Hey, it's DrRoxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Are you trying to figureout what moves you need to make to survive and thrive in the new covideconomy? I want every health innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivotstrategy, which is why I created the...

...covid proof your business pivot kit.The pivot kit is a step by step framework that helps you find your bestpivot strategy. It walks you through six categories you need to examine for athree hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the sixcritical pivot lenses. As you make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'llbe armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to make sure youcan pivot with speed without missing out on critical details and opportunities. Learn moreat legacy and DNACOM backslash kit. So you know, kind of thinking aboutthis. You know, gender gap one of the topics that often comes up. When it does, it's not always the case, but one of thetopics that often comes up when I have female guests on the show. Showis what is it like to be an innovator in healthcare, as a femaleentrepreneur and a we're making progress, but on a, you know, highlydominated, male dominated environment, especially in the reason why I want to talkabout this, even more so with you, is especially when you're talking about ahighly female based company like you have. Yeah, I mean I think theTimes it is most obvious has been when I was talking to investors.So if I was talking to male investors, who are still the majority of investorsin in the US, I would basically see that if they understood theproblem, they were likely interested to continue the conversation, but if they didn'tunderstand the problem, it was such a barrier because they didn't have a partneror sister, you know, daughter who had experienced this and so they eventhough I had stats, even though, you know, they just didn't theydidn't believe it, or they didn't see the need to fix it or theythought, oh, but you know, their doctor can already do that,that's what doctors do. So I think that that has been one of thebig as challenges. Okay, and I think that that's I mean there's somepart of that that's just inherit right, like where, you know, investorsaren't going to be passionate about solving everyone's, you know, problem. There's serciuallysome kind of missional purpose, but behind those investments that are being made. And then I think you kind of circumventing the traditional healthcare system certainly eliminatessome of those gender encounters that you might...

...would have to deal with traditionally andbring an innovation to market, being able to go directly to consumers. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, so let's talk about your go to marketstrategy. Where are you now in that process? And and then what aresome of the strategies that you're deploying that you've had success with, and whatare some of the things that have been challenges or barriers for you? Yeah, so right now we are have launched our pilot, so we're going throughthe full experience with these individuals, from filling out their medical history and gettingthe task all the way through to generating the report, having it signed offon by the physician and then scheduling those Tele Medicine visits and all the waythrough to potentially getting a mail orders description if the patient chooses to do that. And so meanwhile we have been in a early access stage. So onour website we launched away for people to come, tell us a little bitabout who they are and sign up, and then we also included a rewardsprogram in that. So if you referral rewards program so if you tell one, three or five of your friends, you can potentially you get different rewardsat those levels. And part of what we're hoping to do with that isreally also make it an easy way to start a conversation about side effects,which is, you know, something that is sometimes still stigmatize. Side effectsare on birth control. So about like a new hair product that I haveat a party? Is that something me different than talking about my birth control? Yeah, right, exactly, exactly. So we've had some success with thatalready and we've been just now really starting to think about our digital strategyon different channels where our customers are. And I think one of the biggestchallenges, since you asked, is just thinking about how do we market aproduct that applies to three decades of individuals. So that is a challenge that Ihad to apply your same business model to your marketing strategy, recognizing thatyou don't want to do trial and era healthcare, but you also don't wantto do trial and are marketing because your target audience, that is they're alldifferent too. Yep, yeah, exactly. And and you know thing, theyare at different life stages right. So it comes from people who havenever been on birth control before, but seven and ten teens use birth controlto manage symptoms of PMS. So it's important to understand where everyone is finding. or it's somebody who's, you know, in their mids late s and hashad a bunch of bad experiences with side effects, a lot of trialand error and is sick of it. Or maybe it's someone postpartum who's justhad a baby and wants to not have...

...another one right away and think aboutwhat that option looks like and reevaluate, or, you know, all theway through to someone starting to go through paramenopause. So how do we talkto them? How do we communicate what we're doing in a way that resonateswith with those somewhat disparate needs? Yeah, so, you know, it soundslike you guys are taking your targeting strategy to another level, which Ithink is really important when you're talking about direct to consumer. You know you'veidentified a gender, you've identified an age range, but recognizing that, likewe said, not everybody in that gender, in that age range is going tobe this homogeneous group. They're all going to be experiencing problems or usecases in a different way. So what are some of the things in andmaybe you're still figuring that out, but what are some of the things thatyou're putting in place, because you're not going to be the only one outthere that's trying to figure out this like audience message mapping, if you will. Yeah, and a really broad scale. Yeah, going to identify those differentcases use cases, as well as being able to match your marketing tothat specific audience and that specific situational triggers, if you will. Data is thegoal. But so anything from thinking about surveys to, you know,paid out experiments to also just recognizing what's already in the data about demographic people. It on different channels, you know, ticktock versus facebook. Age Ranges arevery different. Yeah, things like that. So trying to to focuson what we can to understand those, those different groups and also get inmore traditional media outlets that might have like a user group that would resonate.You know, I have a suspicion that. You know, we want people whobelieve in science, who understand, or maybe they don't care, whatwe're doing, but they trust that we know what we're doing. I thinkthat that's going to be likely to get faster adoption. Yeah, and definitelyinfluence our marketing. Yeah, because they will know their tribe. They wouldprobably be able to help you identify those those use cases within their tribe andbeing able to cultivate those messages and match that exactly. Yeah, and Ithink that's a good point. I think we're trying to start thinking about howwe can leverage influencers, not just to reach those audiences, but also letthose influencers do the messaging they think they've found in a way that would resonate, you know, kind of partnering with them to that. I'm not saying, Oh, here's this script, here's this, we want you to doexactly this, because I don't think that's this. This that's not making thebest use of their their knowledge about their own audience. Well, and certainly, you know, you've kind of got the movement energy, the cause behindthis, you know. So it's you...

...won't find it too difficult to finda group of social media influences or just participants that want to rally the causeof the disparities and medical researcher, wound plunder, Yep, Yep, andwe need more people to be shouting about it from the rooftop. So Ihope you're right about that in order for that to change faster. Yeah,I mean you could probably come up with like a dream one hundred list ofinfluencers that have some really big, big voices and big influence around these specifictopics. Yeah, absolutely, I think you're think you're right on about that. Would that be your primary go too? would be influencers, or do haveany other secret tricks? When you think about that broad of an audience? I definitely think the influencers. Yeah, sometimes it's it's the you know,and it also depends. Okay, so when you're going a director consumer, obviously it's going to be a lot more expensive than doing be tob right. So there's some kind of grass roots approaches that you can take. Andso you know, those people with you, fifteen million followers, are going tobe priced very differently than someone that has, you know, let's saya million, and so it's not necessarily always the best proach, especially foran early stage. Come down to get those, you know, most prominentinfluencers. So Heaven Second Tier or even third tier influencers can be the rightapproach. They and then it could be there's a number of different factors.You know, brand alignment. You know, is your brand bold and you know, like what's the attitude and personality of your brand, and then makingsure that you're finding influencers that share that common attitude and personality. I thinkthat's really important. So if you're going to be like this science based typeof brand, that's going to be very different than if you're out there andyou're, you know, rallying around gender issues. You know, like youdo that. You could do that same thing and two completely different ways.So I think that brand alignment is is going to be really important and I'ma huge advocate. If anyone's listen to this show, you probably are like, I know what she's going to say. She's gonna say co creation. Saysthat on every episode. But Co creation, you know, is gettingco creating what the influencers and bringing them into the conversation, putting some toolsin place to be able to co create what this launch. So a lotof times when we're thinking about involving customers in the process, we're usually thinkingabout design. So the thinking or human center designed, we design somethin andwe go like hey, look at this, tell me what you think. WeReally, as a whole in the industry miss out on co creating thelaunch. And you know, we might hire marketing agencies or teams, internalor external, and come up with this, you know, marketing plan of channelsand messages and audiences and whatnot, and most often we do those verysiload with including the target customers. And...

...and I go okay, let's stopthat right now. And Coke, I mean every company, should be cocreating yeah, with those target customers. It will save you lots of headaches, lots of money and also, you know, help you with your windowof opportunity, because you know when you don't, you're kind of guessing alongthe way, guessing wrong. You might run out of money and you mighthave actually then, you know, took you two years to figure out whatthat formula was going to be, what was that corversion path going to be? And now you know there's five more competitors in the space then started.Yeah, yeah, absolutely, no, I think that's I think that's spoton. And, of course, influencers, that's they're in there d that's intheir DNA where they use that word co creation or not, like that'swhat they're passionate about doing. So there's there's a bunch of tools and thingsthat you can do to kind of bring them in and remove the guesswork andhelp formulate your entire go to market strategy. Yeah, thanks, I think that'sreally true. You're welcome. So, as you kind of just think aboutwhere you are now, are there any other lessons learned or any othertips to be aware of or things for people to watch at pitfalls, towatch out fought for as they're either making that decision between be to be andB Toc or if they choose the be to be be Toc route? Isthere anything that you've already learned of like stay away from this or do this? Huh, that's a very good question. I don't know if I have anyreal stay away from or do this, but I will say I think partof what, part of what made it feel less scary to go thedirect consumer route was like, well, I'm a consumer, so I understandlike somewhat inherently what that might look like or how I might figure out messaging, and I know that it would involve social and these kinds of things.But there's so many things. There's so much more to it than that.Like I never thought I would be thinking about key terms and see and youknow, so it's been fun. I like all that stuff, but Ithink it's just being aware of, yeah, how those, how those are goingto look super different. And I think on the on the be toB side, you know, you just have a different, different set ofproblems with then maybe you need a sales team and the sales strategy, andso I think, I guess my advice would be like, don't over agonizethe route. If, if you think you have a you need to figureout what prop what the product needs, what makes more sense to make ita reality. Yeah, yeah, you know, and your spot on themarketing piece can be so complicated. You know, if you ask someone,what do you do? Oh well, I'm in marketing. Well, thatcould mean and different things, right. There's so many different domains of expertise, there's so many different channels. I mean it's just the world of marketingand let's just say that it's also dynamic.

Right. So if you're like Oh, social media, okay, well, what twenty? What? What ofthe twenty channels are you talking about? Up and next month there's a newone up, and then the algorithms change as a huge undertaking, youknow, and so you know, you just partner with experts and those differentareas. Maybe sometimes you have a blend of generalists that know a little bitabout different things, but then at some point being able to make the INVALdevestment in those specialists, yeah, around specific things. The other thing thatI would just say what you're talking about is I think sometimes when people aregoing direct a consumer, it can be it's really easy to get it caughtup in like, how would I say this, like Shiny Marketing Syndrome andthe sense of like do I need? Oh, we'll tick tocks really hotright now, so I need to be on ticktock and got to be onYoutube, and I'm I guess you got to be an instant and you knowall of these different things and then all of a sudden you know you've gotyou had fiftyzero a month to work with, but now you've spread yourself out sothin right at none of it's really effective and you're like, Oh,maybe this director consumer path isn't going to work. Well, actually, itcould have work. So starting off with a couple of channels, yeah,and making those very successful. Yeah, and we're having some restraint with thetemptation when someone goes Oh, you definitely need to be on whatever that is. Yeah, and taking the time to like analyze your own learnings from whateveryou did, try to understand what's what might be working and what's not beforeyou go throw a bunch of money at a new channel thinking that's going tobe some kind of magic. If you never like figured out a message thatresonates, doesn't matter where you're going. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Imean it could be that you think. I mean I see this all thetime with clients, you know, thinking that the the channel doesn't work forme and it's really not the channel. It's more of the ads or it'smore of the message, exactly what you're talking about. So getting that thatalignment between the audience, the message and the channel or the offer is always, you know, that's the fun part, right, it's that experimentation. Yeah, I think so. I'm like, Oh, another data problem. Ican do that. Oh well, Elizabeth, this has been so wonderful. Thank you so much for joining me. If there's anyone in the audience thatwould like to get a hold of you to learn more about aiden orjust connect with you about your founder's journey, how would they get in touch withyou? Yeah, you can email us at hello at aiden a dyncom and myself or someone else will get back to you. Someone else isbetter at poking my calendar then reaching out to my inbox directly. Thank youso much for joining me today. Thank you so much, Roxy. Thankyou so much for listening. I know...

...you're busy working to bring your lifechanging innovation to market and I value your time and attention. To get thelatest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to the show on your favoritepodcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening andI appreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues. See You onthe next episode of Health Innovators.

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