Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 1 year ago

Disruptive innovation and the path forward w/ David Huizenga

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

There’s never an easy answer when it comes to product adoption, finances, or navigating a disrupted market.

But when the market’s as volatile as it has been lately, it can be downright scary. One of our core beliefs is that the more knowledge you have, the better decisions you will make.

David Huizenga has seen a lot. He’s worked in just about every industry that healthcare innovation touches, from biochemistry to financial backing to patents and solutions.

His unique experience and insight is a guiding light in the face of a growing storm.

In this episode, David speaks openly and candidly about the role COVID-19 has played in Moterum Technologies’ product launch, roll-out calendar, and how the company has had to conduct business over the past two months.

Here are the show highlights:

  • The #1 most important thing you can say to lead and motivate your team during uncertain times (14:01) 
  • Use this trick to instantly “recharge” yourself when you’re feeling tired and unmotivated (14:27)
  • Why now is the worst time to scale your healthcare business and what to do instead (23:15) 
  • If your business doesn’t demonstrate this, it might not make it into the post-pandemic world (25:33) 
  • Why trying to make reactive changes in your healthcare business backfires on you (26:37) 
  • How to prevent your business from being one of the many that will have to close its doors forever (27:37) 
  • 3 key trends about what the post-pandemic healthcare system will look like (29:00) 
  • The “Prohibition Brewery” tactics that will help your business survive and thrive after the pandemic (33:04) 

I've spoken with dozens of health innovators, and nearly everyone is trying to figure out their best pivot strategy. But they don't know what to change, how to pivot, or if their new pivot strategy is the right move.

So I went into overdrive putting together a clear, actionable 5-step worksheet that will help you quickly define your most viable and profitable pivot path through the COVID crisis. And I’m giving it to you for FREE — no strings attached at https://www.Legacy-DNA.com/Pivot

Guest Bio

David Huizenga is the founder and CEO of Moterum Technologies Inc., a medical device company in stroke rehabilitation. He is an expert in translating groundbreaking science into realistic commercial opportunities. Over the last 5 years, he has focused his efforts on the unique needs of the neural rehabilitation patient. 

Previously, David was CEO and cofounder of Tao Life Sciences LLC, an early stage life sciences technology development and investment company, which successfully monetized over half of its portfolio. David has been on the founding team of numerous life science companies, and has involvement in successful acquisitions and exits. Mr. Huizenga serves on numerous corporate and non-profit boards.

‍If you’d like to learn more about Moterum Technologies and the solutions David and his team have developed, you can reach out to him via email at dehuizenga@moterumtechnologies.com or on their website at moterum.com/

Welcome to Coiq, where you learn howhealth innovators maximize their success. I'm your host Dor roxy,founder of legacy, DNA and international fefth selling author ofhow health innovators to maximize market success through handedconversations with health innovators earlier doctors and influencers you'lllearn how to bring your innovation from idea to startup to market domination,and now, let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq. Welcome back to Ouyq listeners. Ontoday's episode, I have the CEO of mortorum technologies with me. WelcomeDavid Hi Tinga, it's nice to talk with it's nice to have you on the show Davidso like I do with every episode. Tell our listeners a little bit about youand what you do just to kind of set the conversation sure so icurrently see Yooof Motarotechnologies, which is a company that helps cronic patience,sort of move more and move better through remote physical therapysolutions. Prior to that, I started out as a scientist T at was actually in aorigin of life B. Chemistry lab and most of our projects were fundedthrough hurks from cutical, so I had soult Ov gone through at the padprocess. A lot with them and that got me really excited about law school andat what the PAT attorneys were dealing with my projects. As I was goingthrough and and so iged up in law, school and eventually I was a a PatAtorney for a number of years and ran. One of the larger firms in the SouthEast is on the executive community for that for quite a while Nedo inRosenberg was the name of the firm at the time, and but eventually I startedmigrating out of law towards commercialization of technologies. I myfirst move out of wile back into science, was a chief technology officerfor an antiviral company called Cyrus, and we had a platform that identifiedhost targets that could become drug targets for vioinproventions, and thenI moved from there into an accelerator. I formed an accelerator company andraised money around that and we accelerated mostly medtechtypetechnologies, and I is let us let me now to a current position, the studioof Matura. I would guess that you are a lifetime learner, yeah yeah, you get to a certain spot and youlearn really. Everything that you do during the day is about learning yeah,it's good to I love learning I loved I'm rare in this case. I Love LawSchool and I love sort of how it helped me sort of pit it the way I thought alittle bit after being a scientist and I love being a scientist so being astudent as a good profession. Exactly I completely concur. So obviously his lot has changed sincewe had our first conversation a few months ago when we were supposed tomeet at hyms and clearly that didn't happen, and it feels like three yearsit does man. It feels like a lifetime in some ways, Huh yeah and if someways,it really is true. I mean I think the world will n. We had our firstconversation and you know the world then will nat be the world at this time.That's true! I completely agree. So you know what I want to do here is kind ofhave a before and after or before anduring conversation right. So let'stalk about what you were doing before covid and let's talk about some of thestrategies and tactics that you had deployed as part of yourcommercialization process and what was leading to success. What were youstruggling with just kind of paint that whole process and where you are priorto Covid yeah for sure and...

...in some in some ways I think we'we'reon the same track that we were on and in other certainly things are different.You know hone of the sort of key moments in any early stage. lifesciencecompany is that sort of cross from where you go from clinical trials orsort of technology development and you cross over into launch and you watchTOR wor product and that for US launch sort of means the the final delivery ofthat first product and we had started the process. So inseade of my time, ourfirst prodect en were sort of a unique company in the way that we got formedbecause our first product and technoo hey was based on technology near youactually at a University of South Florida, Dr Cal Rads Lab, and it was adevice that helped himmy cretic stroke, survivors relearn, how to walk, and itallowed them to rewire their brains to have a different gate and thatdifferent gate. Even up to twenty five years post stroke. It was a gate thathelped him walk faster and walk safer. That was what our company was formed onand we had done an initial clinical trial in there. But we learned duringthat process of that first clinical trial and through customer discovery,around wit, struce survivors as well as commissions and others that we neededto sort of expand the way that technology was used, because ouroriginal goal was to use that device in the homesetting to allow survivors toget better at the roadpace in the comfort of their home, and to do that. We needed to addsensing technology so that we were able to moditor how much they were using itwhen they were using it and if, by using it, they were actually gettingbetter right if they were going to be disengaged from a clitical facility.Yep Yeah, especially if you don't have your eye on them exactly Ngenat andthen. In addition, we realized that we needed to sort of wrap around thatatell a health, an an engagement platform that allowed then to stayconnected to the clinicians who had delivered that device to them, and sowe acquired to other technologies that were well through their sort of thecommercialization strategy and then starting in about June. We took thatdevice that was close to being ready to go to market for launch and we combinedit with these other two technology platforms and we had completed thatprocess in sort of the what we were looking at as a bate lauch byMidnovember, and so we started taking orders for the device in Midnovemberand one of the things that we were doing atthat time was. We had made the decision that to ourBato launch, we were going to have physical trainers in the homes with thewith the patient. Occorrd to these is conters Yep and it was going to help usmake sure that that they were able to use the device appropriately. Make surethat the data that we had collected around the safety of the device was wasaccurate and sort of make sure that in the initial launch period there wassome additional oversight. So we did that and got through that process.Actually, you know had had some growing success through November andDecember and January and come beginning of March around you know,beginning to end of March. We have patients that were using the devicehaving lots of success through this Beta Bater world, but weno longer could send our cansiers into their house yeah for saty reasons, yea,and so that that's an example of...

...we had a plan. You know we were. Wewere moving and executing on that plan before come in. We would almostassurely still be executing on that plan if it wasn't for Covid, but because ofCovid we had to pivot and in the way that we pivoted was we. So we sort of took a moment with thosecantiers and then we pivoted into a an iob approved clinical study aroundTella health, and so, instead of now sending those patients directly orsending that countar into their home. We were enrolling the patients who hadbeen there now and we were monitoring them through without saying thecountiers into their home yeah, but with doing it Overtella, medicine andnow the rest of our devices and we've pivoted, and so the only way that we'redelivering devices now is porpitions, who are able to perform an use thedevice in a tell health s. So it's a you know for us. We were moving downone path, YEA atually- that had us sort of just making sure that all that wethought was correct or you know after after launch, but the whole plan hadbeen to be a remote device for pigient usage in the home without havingcountiers there, and so what covid did? Is it just pedited us a little bit quicker, yeahyeah the is quicker towards that now than than what we might have otherwisedone so David. I would say that you are in really good company. Many many ofour listeners are CEOS that may have been at different points and theirinnovation process, but nonetheless have some common experience with what Ihad before. And what do I have now and oh my gosh. What do I have in a coupleof months from now? So if you don't mind, let's just be really honest likewhat was that like when you first figured out that Hims was going to becanceled yeah, and this was not something that was like, Oh and it'sjust going to be rescheduled for in a couple of weeks right and there's,there's just major global pandemic happening. You know what was that likefor you, both personally and professionally? What were you thinkingin experiencing yeah wow? That's a good kiit on yourher too, because I wasn't exactly expecting that question. T'sah od, youget a real answer, so I think actually you know I come so thecompany I was in I'v been aalfillated with a lot of Darper grants and Hommadsecurity grants in the in the in my previous stant as the chieftechnology officer for Zirus. You know, I know a bit more than I suppose, mostaround viruses and panandemics and those things, because that's what ourcompany had been built on right, Ol contact with most of those people thatwere there while iave moved into different technology spaces, many ofthem are still in it, and so I think, probably quicker the most I felt fearyea. You know that from the data that you could see thatwas coming out, there were parts of this thatthe expression of this particularcoronavirus could be particularly difficult to control m yeah had echance of becoming a pandemic, which we've never really had right. We've hadthese chances, but at least in my lifetime we've never really had something like this, and and so so. I think my initial thing wasfear, and you know trying to make my family safe and you knowhow to how toboth navigate all that and make sure that my team, my professional teams,were safe and you know started adjusting quickly what we were doingand how how we were interacting as a...

...team and then then, once your personal world is safeyeah at least it are at least in the realms that I'm in you know, onceeverybody personal world is, is as buttone down as possible. Then we sortof got back to rolling our sleeves up and making sure that the mission thatwe had each day before with our company was still the mission that we had today,which is to help chronic care patients in their home emove more, and how wouldwe do that and that is actually changing on a daily basis? You know,let me if it's okay, I'm you know. We also. We had another piot that was furtherout in thei pipeline and it was it's IIT's, more bout, enterprise,expression of our software portal and the clinical version of the portal andthe treatment modalities for home use across all sorts ofphysical therapy needs, and you know, censors for helping facilities anmonitor their. Let's say the falls. WRISK acrossed all of their patientsoon a daily or weekly basis out of the fifty patients that I'm seeing who'sgot the highest fall risk and Ho has the lowest falls gest, for example,that wasn't going to be launched until key for Q, one to kee for the Sher qbon of next year. But we moved that up in a Beta version, because we werebeing asked by ourarers and things hey. When can we? We can t start working andwhen could we turn this on, because in the physical therapy round, which isobviously a subset of the the healthcare needs? It was absolutelymean many of our partners, they're, laying off seventy to eighty percent oftheir physical therapists and yeah and they're, trying to find ways to tostill be to STI help. The patience who they were helping, the for so yeah, youknow the social distancing is definitely a barrier to a lot of thathands on care that we were accustomed to and, like you said, you know, was part ofour business model to begin with. So I imagine you like most of the healthinnovators that I've spoken to that you know this is a it's a very dynamicsituation and it's an emotional rollef coaster right. You know some days werewe're feeling, like I got this and other days we're like. Oh, my gosh.How am I going to survive this? How is my business going to survive this? What were some of the conversationslike just leading your team yeah? You know one of the first conversations youknow we had was look at, we were relevant were important. Were we have amission that is as important today as it was beforeyeah, absolutely more important, right, O so donle site of that fact, andhelping them stay on task with sort of a Montra that that we talk about allthe time. You know when you work for a healthcare companyed in particular,when you work for our company Y. You need to know that the reason you get upand the reason you come to work- is to make somebody's life better yeah it'sabout helping people on it about the person at the end of our technology,it's not about the technology per se, and so that doesn't change and you keepso. We talked about that an we kept people focused on that, and then wetalked about the things that we were doing to sort of shore shore things up,so you go through cost cutting measures so that you make sure that yourmoneysare able to last longer you go through the things that you need to do,that the government is providing you for example, and Thi Right, so thingsthat they're hearing about and so there's a lot of communication abouthow that is ye, how those loans- or you know where we fit or all those types ofthings yeah and then you at least in our case, likeall most small companies here...

...constantly and we're always fundraising,they have to be to till you get to sort of a much later point in this in thesales cycle, and so I started communicating more to the team aboutthe successes and the things that I and our senior management team wasable to achieve and was achieving now related to funding so that they feltmore secure budefinitely. You know Eitino that we're going to be okay,yeah. I think the leadership, skills or conversation is very different in thismoment for all the reasons that you just described right, you know a lot ofus are here. You know just human beings. We want to make a difference in theworld in our small way, and you know to think about the opportunity that somany health innovators, like you and your team, the impact to really be ableto make a difference in somebody's lives during this time it's profoundand what I've seen is that it has rallied people and teams to work harderthan ever before to work faster than ever before, right, absolutely tyhe,aretanes Y, when we were pivoting and new stuff was coming on their plate.You know: Eythey've just responded incredibly yeah it's hard becauseyou're in different work, environments, you're more focused on home, you know,there's stuff happening in the homesetting, it's different for everyperson right. So when you come into an office wher, you come into a meetingplace or a lab or whatever it is. Everybody is sort of in that moment inthat place, they're the same right, but when you're now everybody's in avirtual home environment- and you know, you've got some people that might haveyoung kids w. You have to figure out how to sort of manage and others whohave parents that they're. You know now having to take care of, and you knowit's so so we also created space that that those things were okay, and youknow people were able to know that they're not alone in those sort ofunique pieces of their own personal experience. Right yeah, I say, graceabounds with covid right, like everything's, okay kind of anythinggoes. You know, I had a team member that she didn't tell me in real time. Ifound out a couple of days later because she didn't even know but she's.Like listen she's. Like a couple of days ago, I had a couple of zoommeetings scheduled back to back and by the time I was done, the kids hadflooded the toilet. They were trying to plunge it on theirown. They were crying because they knew that something was not right and theywere going to be in trouble, and this is why she's trying to work right, it's a different everybody, sort offighting their groove and finding their the new way right, yeah new way it'sgoing to be and those things aren' going to get turned off right away. Youknow the or some of them will never really change. I think it's going to be.I've got in my family, I'm the only one who's in healthcare and I've gotrelatives in the travel industry who are having completely differentexperience. Relatives in retail e were having a different experience and yeahand friends. You know sort of all over the all over the board. It's yeah allyou can do, as you said, give as much grace as you can hey it's Dr Roxy. Herewith a quick break from the conversations. Are you trying to figureout what moves you need to make to survive and thrive in the new covideconomy? I want every health innovator to find their most viable andprofitable Tivit strategy, which is why I created the covid proof, YourBusiness Tibi Kid. The pivot kit is a stepby step framework that helps youfind your best pivit strategies. It walks you through six categories. Youneed to examine for a three hundred and sixty degree view of your business. Icall them the six critical pivot linses, as you make your way through thiscomprehensive kid, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you needto make sure you can pivot with steed,...

...without missing out on critical detailsand opportunities, learn more at legacy: Tythan DNACOM Backfla Kit. So let'stalk just a little bit about the financial piece as well. You know allof our listeners are trying to learn from what other people are doing andwhether it's just giving insights into somebody else's experience with raisingmoney right. So are you able to raise money right now? How are you reshapingyour you know? Just tactically your investor presentation, you know inpositioning yourself I'd like to call it like a covid proof business to beable to demonstrate that now is the time to invest in companies like yoursnot to stop investing it's just now the opportunity, you know just kind of givesome color to what that experience has been like for you yeah. No, it's agreat! So I think that starts with a lot of listening. You KNO, so I'mtrying to listen a lot to writ to the people that my own shareholders.Colleagues, you know that I sort of stay, try to stay in touch with andwhat their experiences are and then yeah. I think, from afundraising perspective right. The stage of the company where THYdetermines what your story is and o Liktheyre, how you're talking and whoyou're talking to right and yeah were a company that has been right on thissort of COSP we've had institutional early stage institutional capital aspart of our our experience and we've had sort of handful of Ig net warth oryou know personal investors bring us to the point that we're at right. Now andI think in any downturn o any situation like this, you always have to be ableto lean back on those those core people who know you, because it's in somecases impossible but much much much harder to actually build that reportand the trust with new investors. Yeah ut, somebody, that's new, so so I thinkthose are harder. We are right on this cusp of sort of moving to next level,capital right, we've been in a much larger race, and so that that requiresoftentimes is when you really jump to sort of next level institutionalcapital, and I think a lot of that capital is going to be on the sidelinesfor a window of time. Unless, for one reason or another,they've got mandates, you know one of the things with institutinal capital istime is money for them, and and so, if they're folding money in some ways,they can almost be as bad as making poor investments. It's never the right,init hat holding money too long is also an accarte and, and so there's a theyhave. A investment thesis and an investment plan that they're trying toexecute us like a business, is executing they're trying to executetowards that plan, and I think that has shifted some, and so you have to takethat into consideration. It's in, I think anybody WHO's trying to raisemoney in today's world. You have to be very aware so one of the things thathappens right as a CEO at an early stage company as you can absolutelyit's very difficult, not to be consumed with your own position. Your own moment,your own set of things that have to happen right, yeah, forget or you canforget right- that you're really part of a much larger ecosystem, you're partof a financiallyto system right. So, unless there's exit and Pol on WallStreet little companies like ours, even if you're never going to be the companythat Ipos all of those things are necessary to be able to create a momentfor you, if you're a company that is at the stage where you've started tellingyour product ind your moving, your product can still be the greatest thingin the world, but if you were selling into surgical centers and they stoppeddoing surgeries, your product doesn't havea market right. So understandingwhere you are in the greater health system is also important to, and soI've been doing a lot of calling and what I would call watercooler talk intoday's world right. We do it on the...

...zoom, but you know it's that water Culotalk around what other people areexperiencing and what theyr understanding and the health industryas a whole is going to be pretty depressed, Thi think for the nexttwelve to twenty four months m. that's Goingna affect you know, most of thecompanies that are in our space, and so we have started thinking about how,like you said, are ofperaing highlighting what oure offering can doimmediately in this space, but also how we can prepare. So in other words, youknow today it might even be easier to raise money for really goodpreparation to meet a need that is projected to be out there in ninemonths versus raising money around scaling, something that was ready toscale yeah and right now is ready to scale, and so we focused a little bitmore on our pipeline and and conversations and how that pipeplaneneets needs in the future. And but again it's listening. You know the bestas we change our deck. I'm talking to the people who I know will tell me howbad the ETDECK is. Yes right, exactly ot talking to the pop wi help me Kgo,Orealy, Needtono, say thato. You really need to say this differently or that'sO and at all you know it's important to get that feedback from multiple people.So you know I almost even consider what we're doing here. Very similar to evenwhat you described, I like how you talked about the water cooler talk. Icall it like a thinking partner like I need several thinking partners and they can be part of my organization,but I need a think set of thinking partners that are outside of my companyas well. That's going to help me talk about things and kind of give adifferent perspective when they're, not in it right I mean it's that old adageof forest of the trees, but I think that you know what you describe is allof these different pivot paths, that a CEO can take and requires some kind oflong thinking around. who was I before and really mapping that out and thenmapping out those different new paths you could take in figuring out, what'sgoing to be the best move, and I think what you described is I like to say tenyears ago we were building like annual plans right five years ago today, or Ishould say you know sixty days ago, it was quarterly plans. Now even thequarterly plans aren't viable. Like now, it's weekly because market conditionsare changing so rapidly that I don't think we could even set a thirty dayplan and continue to execute that so we're having to be more agile than weever have been around all aspects of our company yeah. No, it's wise, Ithink, Youre. I think that's very wise and I think the hardest thing one ofthe hardest things I deal with in one of the reasons I'm constant ly. Lookingfor other information to one of my friends once we were, he once told me,Ta say like a swort of a truism of life that I never forgot kind of plies inall, so many aspects of my life Aldeady said you know David by the end of theday. I've had just about all of me. I can stand like and that's I from a business perpective.That's just such a thing right because what's happened is in this world we'vebecome much more selfcentered or IC. You know isolated, it has been harder,and so I've tried actively to prevent that, because I know what I think right,but what's important is to hear what others are thinking so that I can youknow, sort of understand where I, where I need to change- and you know youmentioned the time frame of how that's happening and in these plans you knowone of the most difficult things in...

...understanding. What to change is notchanging because of reaction, but actually doing proactive change forwhere you believe th right. So today, we're in a moment that is impressent ofit in is absolutely changing the way the world will be in the healthcareecosystems for forever, but you what it is today is not what it will be intwelve months, and so, if you Pivi your company to try to beat something todayor tomorrow or next week or next month, that can have consequences if you'repiviting yourself out of where the market is going to sort of reset, and I think that's what is very, verydifficult to do. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and it's so true. So one of the thingsthat I was talking about recently was just the impact where you know youdescribed. It's not surprising, for many of us is that you know the numberof companies, the number of hospitals. The number of physician practices usethe number of companies that are going to have to close their doors, and thatis, I think, creating a lot of consolidation, a lot of mergers andacquisitions, and so, as we think about this future pivot strategy, even thatto me is something to analyze. Right, like is the market opportunity changingand how will that acquisition strategy impact right? I can't sell to companiesthat don't exist anymore. So I think that in a lot of ways we might have asmaller customer segment because of some of this closing the door, and youknow, mergers and acquisitions gets going to inevitably take place, Yepyeah. No, it's a great point, and you know it's really scary when you thinkabout the numbers that that could actually be affecting. You know. Youhear things on the street, so to speak, it's very scary, but our company, itwas built around sort of three sort of core beliefs of what the cominghealthcare world was going to be. En these aren't really my beliefs. Youknow they're, not I don't think they're unique to me. They get discussed a lot,but it's one thing to sort of understand that they're there and it'sanother to start moving towards acting as if they're there right. So thosethree things are, you know one is the consumerization of healthcare. Theother is the decentralization of healthcare. So health cares. You knowmoving out from bigger or midsize facilities to the consumers in theirhomeplace AAn Thi is what I like to call anyways the datamachratizationright. So today we know that dat is important, but eventually we're goingto actually be making decisions based on data in the world or many more decisionsbased on data than we do and in the in the world that covid nineteen hascreated. You see all of those things in literally playing out in real time,yeah right literally before our ass. You know I was stunned and it hasn'tthis version of it has not expressed itself as well as what we had hoped,the sure the people who had sad it oute that when I heard of the announcementright that the testing for this pandemic was going to be taking placein the parking lot of Walmart and google yeah e mediated by Google andthe part Wat to Walmart and literally, was just what an amazing expression ofthe consumerization of healthcare how healthcare is moving to where consumerslive, right, yeah and rather than in the great hospitals or rather than ineven at the you know, the great companies it justit. Tunne me and then, within a week of that announcement right, they literallyopened up the complete Tele health playbook yeah every facility,everything that could be built.

Basically, I'm not giving reimbersementadvice by the way that simple, but it was, it, was reallyopened and expanded on the spot and then last you know, data has both beenthe lack of data today, maybe the most enduring story. Twenty years from now,when we're looking back right, because I really believe that if, if the datahad been centralized that the data had been being collected, if and it's allcapable of being done, it's just not being done peorts of pandemics would benipped in their bud way way quicker than this on particularly was o welland. If I could, you know, I thinkthat the three trends that you just described- ore- you know our listeners-probably hear me- say this quite often lately that those are what I hear youdescribing is is a big part of the silver lining and all of this right, sothe data did maccrezation the consumerization. The decentralizationis stuff that a group of entities has been fighting for for a very long timewith very little success, and so, if there's everanything positive that could come from this, you know this being the catalystor the springboard for increased adoption of these things. That we knowwill improve and transform healthcare in a really really powerful way. No, Icompletely agree- and he one of the great things about the human spirit isthe ability to overcome extreme conflict and extreme burden and extremetragedy through growth, yea yeah. That's a that, I believe inyways, thatthat's you know, hat's Teto Tofind, a component of who we are as humans, andthat is absolutely in play, as you described yeah the system itself indthe health system itself. That is that's happening right now, so I'vebeen reading a lot about these stories of survival and thrivingcompanies from the Great Depression and I'm not a beer drinker. But I readthis story this week about a brewery who mind you at this point in time isduring prohibition, so they were selling something that was illegal tobegin with, and you know when they described it, Imean it's like all. The odds were against them right, so they wereselling something that was illegal. There were over a thousand breweries atthe time, even in the legal market right and that you know there werecertain strategies and tactics that some of them took or applied in orderto survive that, after the Great Depression, they ended up with ahundred and sixty four out of over a thousand. So that's a lot of whatyou're describing like this is what we're anticipating and what I thoughtwas so remarkable. is they said that the top five beer brands are from wereburthed during that period of time and Ningling was one of them. I don'tremember the gentleman's first name, but whoever yingling birth this duringthat, and so you know, there's there's a lot of alot of exciting opportunity in this, and it really forces us to really thinkdifferently about our businesses and the opportunities that are before us.You know there's so much mounting pressure as you describe, and I lovejust hearing these stories of all these...

...overcomers that we can glean from inthe past er absolutely yo w history, you owas hope history, which willrepeat itself as repeating itself in a good way right t rather than innegative ways, and certainly the ability to overcome. I mean, at the endof the day, being an ECTREPRENEUR is, at least from my perspective, it'srelatively simple: It's being able to identify a need, it's having a passionabout solving that need bout, being able to execute to bring that solutionto those who need it right. If those three things occur, it's the same forbusiness on Main Street as it is for a cure for covid nineteen yeah, or youknow a cute for SARS Kobe to and there's a lot of need right now andwhen there's a lot of meen if you're focused on solving or curing or helping that need,there's a lot of opportunity, yeah so David as we wrap up here. What lessonslearned or what advice? Do you have for your peers, your fellow health,innovators er? You are in the trenches right now trying to figure out how they're going to survive and thrivein this new covid economy. Yeah Wow, I'm qualified to give them advice.Actually Ito do from a lessons learned. You know, I think, at least in my experience. You know ittakes a lot of time to stay sort of people censored and people first a- andI think this is a really good example of all of those relationships that youthat he generated and all those relationships that you're gifted tohave in how you're executing your business. That's what's going to carryyou through thise times, and so you know for me, it has become the lesson Ilearned is that that that effort is worth it and it's always because sometimes it's hardright, maintaining those relationships, but today, sort of in this space thatwe're in now the thing that is most valuable to me are doese thoserelationships and the ones that you're able to rekindle you're able to youknow just like just being able to reach back out and touch I've riaghed out tosome some friends or people that I haven't talked to you for a while right,anare they okay or are they not? And that's what makes business successful,Righis people and just value the people that Adi around you to help you besuccessful in your business, so very valuable advice, very valuable guidancethat I think that you know we. We know, intellectually, that relationships areimportant, but if we looked at our calendars over the last three monthslast six months- I don't know if I don't know what our calendar would say,we value versus what we say we value, and so I think that there's a littlebit of that heightened awareness that you just described of to make sure thatwhat we do with our wife and our time, our most precious resource is reallymore inlined with what we truly value deep inside and not just a lot of allthe surface stuff you shouid ave better than I do. You should have answered myquestion. OTWHATI was Ryin. Tosayjuso said it. You said Iti just repeatingyou, Oh man, so what an incredibleconversation! I think you so much for your openness and candidness about yourexperience, because I know that our listeners, you know it's a real benefit when wecan hear other people's story, and we can realize that we're not all thatdifferent and we're thinking and...

...feeling and processing a lot of thesame things. It's I think it's just it's very encouraging and inspiring tohear. So I appreciate you sharing your story in your with our listeners today enjoyed it enjoy yere n here and what others share withyou yeah. Thank you for being there and being a voice out in that in this Suworld, yeaht's right, yes, so David, how can any of ourlisteners get a hold of you if someone wants to connect with you? After theshow sure our website is wwmoteracom and you can send you know, obviouslyyou can contact through that medium or my email address is de my last name:Hisinga Hu Iz Enga at Motara, technologiescom, wonderful! Well, thankyou! So much, it's been great bur! Thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and Ivalue your time and your attention to save kind and get the latest episodeson your mobile device automatically subscribe to the show on your favoritepodcast apt, like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you forlistening and I appreciate everyone. WHO's been sharing. The show withfriends and colleagues, see you on the next episode of coiq.

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