Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 100 · 3 months ago

Creating Value for Everyone in the Value Chain w/ Dave Dolan

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If creating value is foundational to a successful business, creating value for everyone in the value chain is the Holy Grail.

Dave Dolan, Executive Chairman and Co-founder of MultiFunctional Imaging, knows what it means to create value - he’s one of those rare entrepreneurs who achieved the “Holy Grail.”

In this episode, Dave discusses business models and roadmaps that can help entrepreneurs “cross the chasm” to success.

If you’re looking to build and cultivate KOL (key opinion leader) relationships, blaze your path across the chasm, or simply want to be better at co-creating with your customers, you’re going to want to listen.

Come hear Dave’s story!

Here are the show highlights:

This is why it’s important to “play well in the sandbox” (4:19)

Is your business model missing key components to your story? (9:27)

How to find your way across the chasm (11:09)

Nurturing and cultivating KOL relationships (17:26)

Strong KOL partnerships are the engines that drive you (23:21)

How to win at co-creation (30:19) 

Guest Bio

Dave Dolan is the Executive Chairman and Co-founder of MultiFunctional Imaging.

His career has been built on successes centering around the commercialization and customer adoption of innovative MedTech products/services. 

From Fortune 500 corporations through startups, he has built medical device innovations into record growth, elevated market shares, and attractive market valuations. 

A trusted business leader, Dave employs an analytical and data-driven approach to identify and capitalize on opportunities that will advance an organization’s strategic vision.

To learn more about what Dave does, go to his website at multifunctionalimaging.com. If you’d like to reach Dave directly, you can find him on LinkedIn at Dave Dolan, or you can email him at dave.dolan@mfimage.com. 

You're listening to health innovators, apodcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adopters who are shapingthe future of healthcare. I'm your host, Dr Roxy Movie. Welcome back healthinnovators. On today's episode I'm sitting down with Dave Dolan, who isthe executive chairman and Co founder of multi functional imaging. Welcome to the show, Dave Roxy. Thank you very much the invitation. It's joy to behere. I'm glad to have you here. So tell us a little bit aboutyour background and what you've been innovating these days. Great. Well.Thanks. I am a Mettech bettern. Been in the industry for just overtwenty years. I cut my teeth at GE healthcare in the diagnostic imaging spacebolfcapital equipment as well as services. As my career is progressed, I movedon to more agile and innovative companies. Is My career as progressed. Aftermy Stina Gye, how was the GM platform leader for Beca Dickinson sitution therapyunits. Then went on to buiosons webster, which is the electric physiology unit ofJohnston Johnson, and work for a cutest medical for a spin and thencofounded multi functional imaging back in two thousand and thirteen with my partner, Dancatapist. So what we are, as were, in early stage commercial companyand what we do is we specializes in making pet and pet CT scanners runmore official plan. So, for instance, in the world of cardiac pet whichis the gold standard for cardiac imaging, depend on the radio tracer that amedicine technician or a cardiologist with utilize the see and takes about eighty toninety minutes. What our software does is able to condense that time and actuallybe able to conduct the rest and stressful Marto biocardial profusion imaging scan in aboutfifteen to twenty minutes. And so what you get is you get the economiesof scale, you get much more of an efficient process and, most importantly, the patient benefits from a much surer duration of the scan. That who, quite frankly, be pretty intimidating when you look at from a patient standpoint. Sure. Yeah. So, so let's just talk about that moment whenyou decided that you were going to leave corporate healthcare and and go out onyour own. What were some of those things that you thought and kind ofWade the pros and cons and making that decision. Yeah, it was.It was definitely a kind of a left turn. It actually came across thetechnology when I was doing my my my Mbat the University of UTAH. TheDean of the business school had asked me to take a look at some ofthe invention disclosures at the University of Utah had, which are probably aware of. The University Utah Medical Center is cover renowned cardiology facility in and I wasasking to take a look into in system the mentioned disclosures at positions and professorshave submitted. Oh yeah, I regretted...

...that offer almost immediately because about threedays after I agreed to do that I had two legal boxes full of paperfiles of invention disclosures and I'll be honest, it was about about there's about athousand that were submitted and about nine hundred and ninety of them were reallyelaborate solutions of problems that haven't been invented yet, the typical level with alot of innovations today. Right exactly, you know, the typical you knowtext than out you know kind of stuff. But I came across one that wasreally interesting. It was a neglar physicist, had an algorithm to beable to condense the time it takes to do cardiac pat again, going fromninety minutes down to fifteen to twenty minutes. What was kind of interesting is thathe saw all the value of at least initially, was at it wasgoing to be able to provide a better image. You know, which itdoes. But I introduced myself to them and I educated them love. Hey, you know, to say that one image is better than another image usuallyinvolves a pretty lengthy chlinical trial that would be difficult to try to finance.But being able to say that you take a ninety minute scam, it condenseddown to twenty minutes, that's something you don't need to do a clinical trialfor. In the value is intrinsic. And so that night we decide toform an LLC and started building the company up. That's incredible. So you'vecertainly have been had your way around right with Med device corporations. Just kindof described for our audience you know, what was some of that experience,some of the things that were most exciting to you and most challenging to youwhen you were innovating or working for those innovative companies around Med device. Yeah, well, what drew me, drew my attention to this technology was actuallymy time at gg healthcare. I was there for about twelve years and asa product marketing manager over the services unit, myself and my teenager ask that kindof tackle kind of a serious problem that gg healthcare at the time andthat was they were losing service contracts for their Om equipment or their gg equipment, and so often time what was going on is that they would have youknow, if you're aware, there's a city system is sold for about twomillion dollars but then also has a service contract to make sure that it's maintainedand make sure the up time is up, and those contracts could run about ahundred fifty two hundred thousand dollars. What we ran into in a lotof cases it was either former g employees or often times form of Phillips seasonsemployers were forming their own service companies and then going in and performing the servicesto reduced price to general electrics and so Markettinghe was asked of hey, howcan we address this, because you know, we're losing our market share with thisand we're getting business and starting we...

...were certain to see price compression withour services, and so we were dealt with that problem and we bring stormedand we came up with kind of a clever idea. This is happening duringthe late s early S, kind of in the middle of GE six sigmarenaissance, as you can you know, like to call it, and whereyou statistical tools to be able to make things more efficient. It's typically amanufacturing discipline. I had known from my experience that customers did not like beingtold about six sigma. Were being educated on six sigma, but I wecould see that this would actually be beneficial for this process and during this timeall employees, including myself, had to complete at least form project, alot assignment to be able to be green belt certified. They called it thesign and what we decide to do is kind of lean into that. Wehad a lot of service engineers or managers like myself that had to do aproject within here, and so we came up with the performance solutions package forMRI and CT systems where, for a premium price, we would assign youa green belt specialist to go in and figure out how to make your scanningmore efficients hmm. And so utilizing those tools. But the beauty of iswe never mentioned six sigma. We just said now this is a this apremium service package. Yeah, and sure enough it took off. We offeredan uptime guarantee as well as a performance guarantee where we fail to make itmore efficient, that there would be money out of pocket for us. Butwe signed about a hundred fifty of those contracts and we never had to issueany guarantee checks whatsoever. So that was always kind of in the back ofmy mind of customers value having the their capital equipment being more efficient. Youknow, as you're aware, you got a pretty large capital asset, whetherit's Mli or CT, and you've got a capitated reimbursement. So you're limitedin terms of how you know how profitable it could be. For Healthcare Facility. Really the only way you can you can make it more profitable is getby getting more patients a thing, improving the other throughput, and so thatwas always kind of in the back of my head, and so when Dancatteramists of and I were able to go through this technology, that kind ofspring back to my mind. Ah, here we go now we got afacility as trying to do seven to eight patients. That wow, we canprobably do like twenty five patients a day, and so that's really was kind ofthe kind of work stem from. It. All matters, doesn't itall just bills on each other. Yeah, and what's Nice about what we dohave multifunctional imaging and is that we like to say that we played wellin the sandbox. What we mean by that is every partner within the valuechain of the scan benefits from our existence. So Ge Siemens Phillips, they benefitfrom the fact that their capitalescent's now more attainable because the return on investmentis are because they can get more patients in. The radio tracer companies orthe the drug distributors, they benefit from our existence because it's opportunity for themas sell or radio traces or cell worked...

...dose. The healthcare facilities benefit,and that is simply they benefit the economies of scale. You know, they'reable to attain more revenue while still maintaining the you know, the operating expenses. And then, lastly, the patient benefits the most because, you know, I'm sure I drew a lot of your listeners have either been in aCT or a pet CT system before it's pretty intimidated. And when you're talkingabout doing arrested stress, it's two separate scans that the patient has. HasTo do with our software, the really only doing at once and again it'sa much more pleasant experience. And so it's nice about us is we don'tdisplace any of those value members. They all benefit from the existence of oursoftware. So one of the things I think is so interesting of what youjust described is, you know, in healthcare we're all almost always dealing withmultisided markets, even if we're not even thinking about throughout the entire value chain, and and you were able to so easily articulate the value proposition for eachone of those players within that value chain. And I think that that's something thatvery often corporate innovators or, you know, start up entrepreneurs, earlystage entrepreneurs, end up really missing out on is really, you know,kind of sitting down and mapping out that business model and looking at the valueprop for each stakeholder group that's involved in that value chain, as opposed towho the user is or who the buyer is, and in missing components ofthe value and commissing key components of that story. Yeah, it's pretty unique. I I've got, like I said, twenty pous years in the metech industryand I've always, from a commercial standpoint, always came into all right, as an incumbent. I'm trying to upgrade a new product or service tosomething that they're currently using, a bind which presents a challenge, or thetougher one. There they're comfortable with the competitor that they're currently using and youhave to prove that you're that much better than that. So you're displacing something. You know. Again, sometimes we have to have a sit down andexplain this, because a lot of time customers don't get it. They feelthat they're going to lose something and we're able to say no, actually,everything becomes more conduct everything becomes more efficient, you know, and, like Isaid, that the equipment manufacturers benefit, drug manufactors benefit, facility benefits andagain, most importantly, the patient benefits. So much more pleasant experience. Sure. Yeah. So, so you talk about commercialization, adoption,launch. You know, a lot of times people in the industry might usethese words interchangeably and I like to just kind of pick people's brains to kindof say from your point of view, what's the difference between commercialization and launchor going to market in your experience? Yeah, well, I'm the bigfan of the book crossing the Chasm, and they went to crossing chasm talksabout is the various different stages of customers. When you enter into a product orservice, you know you have was typically referred to as the early adopters, which are pretty much people that are...

...in it for the technology alone.You know they're interested in how it's made and they're also willing to kind ofinvestl a lot of time to help you curate develop your product. It's areally important group to to embrace early on, but really the goal is to getto that second stage, like they referred to as the early majority,and these are people that represent kind of a large marketplace but might but probablythink a little bit more progressively, and the idea is to embrace your earlierdoctors, but try to get to that second phase of that early majority asfast as possible, because those are typically the facilities that will act, aswe like to refer to it as pinball customers, where say a large keyopinion leader facility decides to utilize this other key opinion leaders will fall in lineand they see that it works for that person and so move into that earlymajority as soon as possible. Really benefits from being able to effectively commercialize anddo it cost efficiently because he had these key opinion leaders, you know,tacitly endorsing what the technology could do. Beautiful and just so it's more moredifficult than the sounds. I didn't prompt you to say that, but thisis one of my soapboxes, this early adoption strategy and having a different strategyfor those two slices, first two slices of the market, versus the mainstreammarket. And in what I found is that most innovators don't really understand thatdistinction. They're building one go to market strategy instead of a different one forthose different spices of the market. And so then just really in the earlystage of the company, wasting a whole lot of time trying to convince thatmainstream market to buy their innovation. And there's this misalignment of messaging and theoffer. And so what you just just described is such a golden nugget forour audience and viewers to kind of grab a hold of. And you knowhow is that been a game changer for you in your own business? Well, it's really a help for us. I mean, you know, firstof all, beat those early adoptors that you know take you on your technologyfor technology set. They're in currently valuable because those people are also typically theones to give you the most feedback, which is absolutely golden when you're starting. But I think we're sometimes, if you're a small entrepreneurial company, sometimesyou can fall a little bit too much of love with the with that typeof customer, and we need to be able to do and kind of havethe discipline of the second you know you had that product dialed in. Okay, it's like you know, you know it is ready to go, andnow you gotta transition that discipline to we need to go to that larger earlymajority customer now, even though it's scary, even though it's might be a littlebit tough to get their attention at first. It's imperative that you makethat transition very quickly. So how are you finding those early adopters in thein the first two slices of that?...

How are you finding those? Whatare you looking for? That's different than some of the mainstream market players thatare going to be so much more resistant to what you have to offer earlyon. Yeah, and in our case, in this might not be everybody's case, my partner and cofounder, Gan Catamus is. He's a known quantitywithin the nugative medicine space and we're able to use a lot of his relationshipsthat we that he had to the type of people that could really help uscraft and be able to tell us, yes, okay, this is thisis functioning the way it should. And then what I kind of brought tothe table a little bit is myself, with kind of broad our commercial experienceat GE and Beck and Dickinson and biosense Welbster, I was able, oncewe were ready to go to that larger scale, be able to take mycontacts and say, all right, you know, I was I was oneor two grews removed from a lot of us contacts, but was able totranslate over. So, for instance, when we have our small consortium sayingyes, all I ever ready to go Dan, and I immediately said,all right, let's transition this, let's go to the mail clinic and let'stry to get the adoption over there, because that's representable early majority customer.Right, Yep, that makes sense. And then I love what you're touchingon to, and I think it's so important, is how those early buyersreally are the ones that help you sell into cross the chasm and sell intothe mainstream market. So just kind of talk about a couple of stories,maybe on some folks that. What was that like for you, being ableto help facilitate that endorsement or that that word of mouth to help you crossthe PAP chasm? Yeah, we we were pretty fortunate in that. Asyou know, trying to get to those early majority customers and you have alot of value analysis committees that you have to go through and again, you'rein a lot of those cases you're trying to displace in a comment. Okay, you're trying to say that we're five or some better than what you knowyou're currently using right now. We're able to be able to drive home,especially with people outside of our internal champions, was, hey, this is acoss agents for you, this is an efficiency tool for you. Youknow you're are and be able to go from scanning seven times a day tothirty times a day without any incremental operating expenses, to be able to dothat. So we are pretty fortunate in that we had a really good economicstory of why adopting this just as soon as possible was going to be abenefit of we were talking about making improvements in the single digit range. Wewere talking about, Hey, you can double your scanning through put just simplyby adopting the software, and so that's what really helped us out as whatmakes us a little bit unique. Hey, it's Dr Roxy here with a quickbreak from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves youneed to make to survive and thrive in the new covid economy? I wantevery health innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivot strategy, which iswhy I created the covid proof your business pivot kit. The pivot kit isa step by step framework that helps you...

...find your best pivot strategy. Itwalks you through six categories you need to examine for a three hundred and sixtydegree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses.As you make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'll be armed with thetools, tips and strategies you need to make sure you can pivot with speedwithout missing out on critical details and opportunities learn more at legacy DNACOM backslash kit. So how have you maybe nurture, nurtured or cultivated those Kol Relationships?Yeah, well, we've had a great relationship with with the Mayo Clinic andthey have written a paper speaking to our technology, which has been especially helpfulfor us with that. And you know, again, they walk through sort oflike their base case of how they are your utiliz scanner utilization before ourarrival and then after I think it was about six months of utilizing or softwareup their throughpoot was about point, and so having that paper that they theypenned was extremely helpful for us and we're able to showcase that to not onlyin users but also other companies that would have an interest in terms of thedistributing our software for US or partnering with us. So I know our audiencewants to know how did you get them to do that? Right, becausein healthcare, I mean it's just this weird thing where, you know,you can't put my logo on anything. You know. Yes, you're beena great customer. I mean yeah, great customer. Like we have agreat relationship, but no, you can't include me in your slide deck,you can't put me on your website kind of thing. Right. It's justkind of a known thing in healthcare that maybe other industries don't encounter. Sowas that something that you guys initiated? Was it something that Mayo initiated?What kind of spurred that? Well, this is something that we initiated.I tell you what, there's not a lot of magic to it. It'sreally about persistence, especially when you go to larger facilities. A lot ofit is simply just the repetition and never accepting no as an answer or,as like to say, is knows, the second best answer you can get, as long as you follow up with well, what else would we haveto do? You know, if this isn't enough, what would be enough? And and what you got to do is, the fifteen time you runinto that, don't roll your eyes, don't side to say that's interesting,saying okay, how could we address this so you'll be able to adopt us? So agree, person perseverance is really the secret. Yep, Yep,just be stubborn. Don't give us exactly. So I wanted to I made notehere when you were talking earlier telling about the story. You said thatyou were an early stage, you know, Start Up Med device company, butthat you you started the company in...

...two thousand and twelve and we're in. Yeah, anyone right? Yeah, yeah, what we did is is, for instance, I did this as sort of like a side while mypartner worked on this full time. And so we originally started, we starteddoing the fundraising path and fundraising trail, but we discovered pretty quickly was wehad some interesting offers from venture capitalism's also some private equity or some strategic investmentsthat work are brought to our attention. We decide to take a little bitdifferent a route in that we sought federal and state grants that were nondelutible tobe able to build our company out. Now, the positive to that was, well, we have control the organization. You know, we don't have athird part for entity that's driving our strategy. You know that. Thosewith that Kennedy. Yeah, the downside is that it makes much more adeliberate rollout. And so after after myself and my partners looked at it,we decided that Ip was long enough, that let's do this deliberately, andso we so we built it out slowly. We got our K in two thousandand eighteen. So, you know, five years after kind of the foundry, were able to get our K. and I tell you what it's.It's it wasn't easy. It was a long walk through the desert forall of us. How many times did you want to quit? Oh Yeah, and you know, there is it's also there's something to be said,you know, being in a startup sometimes can be very romantic. But untilyou recognize that, okay, wow, payrolls Friday, we might not havethe funds for payroll, that's real stress. That's when that's when you recognize,okay, this is what being an entrepreneur is really like. But yeah, we've been commercial since, since two thousand and eighteen, and and againwe're methodically building out our face because we know that if you make things moreefficient, the economic story becomes that much more that much more impactful, andso, you know, we're going about showcasing the fact with our customers ofhow much more efficient could be. So how are you getting in front ofhow are you building awareness and building that demand in front of your targeting customers, especially in this kind of it's not covid, it's not post Covid,it's just this quasi covid climate that we're in. Yeah, good question.You know one my partner, Dan catabist is again very known quantity and eventhe medicine, and so a lot of his relationships are able to help usdo that. We recently hire a product manager who's very commercially focus, who'sdriving adoption with that. Would also we've benefited from is there's other companies withinthe space that participate in that value chain that I spoke of earlier that setup introductions for us to be will come in and talk about what we're doingbecause it benefits them. It's nice where...

...we're not contractually obligator for INSUS,they're not acting as a distributor, but again they're setting up warm invitations forus and say, Hey, are you aware with these people multifuction, limitaryimaging you're doing? This might be a benefit to your facility, which isfantastic, and they would hand that over to us and then boom, we'retalking to talking to an in user that it what exactly we're doing. Sowe've really kind of benefited from that word of mouth of companies within that bodydream. So a lot of the research that I've done indicates exactly what youjust said, that building that strong partnership network is key to crossing the chasm. Like if you don't have that network, you will really just kind of fallin and flat flounder. So that makes a lot of sense in thisjust this word of mouth, this Kol this partnership, you know, kindof having that engine behind you again, so you don't even have to bethe one that's creating all of that awareness and demain and right you've kind ofgot that exponential effect with other people doing it on your behalf, even ifyou were, you know, you know, had millions of dollars to put intoyour sales and marketing efforts. Yeah, and you know, and I've hada career where if I'm trying to tell a customer of why my goodservice is better than, say, another, I would have to get a penand a piece of paper out or have to get ipad out and say, well, this is why, with multi functional imaging, and it's like, okay, you're doing a patients today, right now, with us, wecan get you to sixteen or twenty. And so I think those those adjacentcompanies. They can kind of be a good advocate for us because ourbay proposition is so simple. Yeah, yeah, so I noticed, youknow, when we were talking earlier, you mentioned something about Jack Welch.Obviously you know the leadership program. I was A, I'm a professor atthe Jack Welch Management Institute and I have to say that the way he runsthat school, are at the leads that school is like he would do atGe. It's unlike any other university that I've ever attended or ever worked for, where the students are customers, just like you would in any other business. Oh, I have the opportunity to go to Crotonville is, as youknow, it's kind of called internally. Yeah, it was beneficial in twodifferent ways. You know, you kind of get assigned a typically room withanother person from GE at that and so I remember eye rooms with a Sovietor a Russian national who worked in the aircraft engine, you know. Soone it was like great having that experience of wow, you know you're fromRussia. Tell me about that exactly. It's like, walk me through howactually a jet engine works. So you benefit from those relationships and then,like you said, I would say the class that I was in, probablyabout throw of the class was actually customers,...

...and so that's another dynamic and it'sgood. It's it was, you know, in my case it wasa week long program your kind of holed out of the field. You're toldto put yourself gone down and and let your team know that you're not goingto be responsive that week. And now it's fantastic. You know, Icherished my time it. Ge. The entire playbook doesn't transition outside of gyou know, there's some of it that you kind of got to leave andsome, but some of it you vary directly over. You know, forinstance, how how the fact that you value feedback to your employees as wellto your customers, you know, being disciplined to share feedback the planning process, both strategic and operating, is something I still lean on today, eventhough I left you e quite a while ago. But yeah, there's someof it that doesn't carry over that, but that's that's that's why you seea lot of people from GE excel in other areas out because they pick upthose nice and nutt get to pearls that translate anywhere. Yeah, that's great. So you did touch on a business plan, and you know just Ithink every you know founder has a business plan of some sort. If weall stacked our business plans side by side, they probably would look very, verydifferently in a number of ways. So what are some of the keycomponents? I mean you don't have to go through like the basics of businessplan, but what are some of the key components that you have found thathas been like the components of the strategies that have been really key to successthat you've accomplished so far? That we's funny you should ask that question becausemy partner and I we had a little bit of fun about six months ago. We pulled out our original business plan from two Po wow and it's exactlywhat you're doing today right. Looks the same, maintained, but you know, I tell you what it's been. It's twofold. What I've carried overfrom GE is the two stuff process. They referred to as the session onesession to the timing of this's not necessarily important, but gee, in thespringtime we do it's called their session one and this is the five year businessplan. And really what it's about is, I always joked about it, wasdefending your life meaning that telling about the market, tell me about thecompetitive threats, tell me why this is even going to be in industry fiveyears from now. So it was less about what we were actually doing.It was like, tell me about the market. Yeah, and really theywere evaluating is this a good space to be in? All right, andthere was a lot of decisions that was made at that meeting by, Hey, you know where the external drivers you know? How do we know that? You know, patients are going to continue to need this type of therapy. So that was beneficial. And then and then either or not, likeKodak or blockbuster. Right. Yeah, in the fall was was referred toa session to and that at last, this is how the next year isgoing to roll out. This is,...

...you know, our direct competitive threats, this is what our Broden is going to be, this is what ourexpenses are going to be, and it's much more of an operating plan typeof scenario. So we have adopted that where we do that twice a here, kind of in a springtime, more strategic, you know, fall oroperating focus. But when you're a small company, you got to be alot less rigid and you got to be a lot more open minded to.Okay, that was a good idea three months ago, but you know,we're going to divert our path now and be able to do something like this. And so, when you're in a large company like a GE, likea Siemens, it is kind of like a battleshow okay, and that you'reyou go out, of course, and this is what the entire plant setup for. This is what shareholders are expecting, and we're going to doit this way. When your entrepreneurial, it's like you have to be ableto adapt to what the market is being able to serve up to. Iencourage all of our clients to create these ninety day plans, because I saythat, you know, once you go beyond that, like, there's somuch that changes as especially in this climate that we're, you know, operatingunder right now. I mean, so much changes, and so I thinkthat's, you know, the beauty of being a startup or being a COfounder, right you get a chance to pivot and adapt and iterate in amuch faster way than you can when you're this big behemoth organization like a GEor bed. Yeah, and I think also what's really beneficial when you're ina smaller, more agile environment is that you can invite your customer and tohelp you with that strategic mindset. You know, I you know, Iworked in a for a small private equity firm a couple of years ago andworked in the electronic healthcare record space, and we're able to sign on areally large charpoy. Wanted two big players and we're able to come in.After we got them on board and we're helping them out. I asked fora meeting with their executive team and I asked them of hey, how arewe doing? Went through some dashboards or we performing well? They said,wow, you guys great, but really happy. We adopt you guys aservice. And then I said, well, okay, that's great. Can Iask you a favor? And they're like sure, where we beat?Did and I and I said what else could we be doing for you?You know, I think that there's other services or other batch of things thatwe might be able to do for you. What might some of those be?And I'll never forget, you know, the chief compliance officer stood up witha marker, went to the White Board and said we've got all thesedifferent things. That be a seven different vendors taken care of force and I'msitting there fiously writing all this down and after about forty five minutes he stops, he puts the cap on his pin and he goes, you know what, you owe me dinner tonight. Why do I are you dinner tonight?He's like, I just give you your strategy exactly. Yes, you did. It's a little grateful for that meeting.

It's I mean that's such a greatstory, a real story. You know, personal example of, youknow, this idea of Co creation that I'm always preaching for, an advocatingfor and and I'm hope that more organizations do it, whether you're big orwhether you're small, being able to invite customers into the conversation, into ourrd teams, are marketing teams, are sales teams, in not being embarrassedby asking those questions right. It takes you had to get kind of withego at the door and be humble to say hey, well, what doyou want next, instead of acting like you know what they want next.And I think that the companies that adopt co creation are going to be theones that win, because they're going to stay closest to the customer and they'regoing to be able to deliver what the customer wants in a way that's goingto be very different than those organizations that are, you know, making alot of assumptions and building their strategies and product solutions based upon that. Yeah, yeah, it was very fortunate. I think that one he saw thatwe were a small company that was hustling and that we were really working hardto to exceed their expectations and we have some credibility to that. And andagain, I think this individual came up with like twelve fantastic ideas and Icame back to my week later said no, I think we could do three ofthese, and they ended up being really good and trust me, Iwant to do all of them. But again, you might not be alimited beings. We had to take the higher runners. Sure, yeah,it was, it was, it was great. And Yeah, he enjoyedher a stake dinner that night. Well, and I think that discernment that youjust described as also extremely critical, because you know, you're also lookingthrough that Lens. Okay, the cut, the customer provided these twelve ideas,but that doesn't mean that all twelve of them are viable or feasible,you know, being able to commercialize them across the entire ecosystem. You know, more customers. It could be just this one particular customer, and Ithink that goes back to what you were talking about earlier on. When you'vegot those that smallstliver, that first liver, that's really like into technology for technologysake and you don't want to get caught up in the trap of buildingcustomizing something for them and they kind of take over that product development and thenthat's something that's really great for these three customers. Exactly right, exactly youget. You got to be thinking of what's the early majority customer really wants. That's that's where you gotta that's your North Star that you gotta follow.Right. Yeah, so, Dave, this has been a fantastic conversation.Is there anything else that you want to share with our listeners before we wrapup today? No, it's want to thank you very much for allowing myselfto talk about multifunctional imaging. You can find multifuncial energy at multifuncial IMAGINGCOM.You can also look me up on lookedin...

...if you want to reach out toto myself and my email addresses Dave Dot Dolan at MFI and a gecom.Awesome. Thank you so much for joining me today. Dr Rox, usea player. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy workingto bring your life changing innovation to market and I value your time and attention. To get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to theshow on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thankyou for listening and I appreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Health Innovators.

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