Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 100 · 2 months ago

Creating Value for Everyone in the Value Chain w/ Dave Dolan


If creating value is foundational to a successful business, creating value for everyone in the value chain is the Holy Grail.

Dave Dolan, Executive Chairman and Co-founder of MultiFunctional Imaging, knows what it means to create value - he’s one of those rare entrepreneurs who achieved the “Holy Grail.”

In this episode, Dave discusses business models and roadmaps that can help entrepreneurs “cross the chasm” to success.

If you’re looking to build and cultivate KOL (key opinion leader) relationships, blaze your path across the chasm, or simply want to be better at co-creating with your customers, you’re going to want to listen.

Come hear Dave’s story!

Here are the show highlights:

This is why it’s important to “play well in the sandbox” (4:19)

Is your business model missing key components to your story? (9:27)

How to find your way across the chasm (11:09)

Nurturing and cultivating KOL relationships (17:26)

Strong KOL partnerships are the engines that drive you (23:21)

How to win at co-creation (30:19) 

Guest Bio

Dave Dolan is the Executive Chairman and Co-founder of MultiFunctional Imaging.

His career has been built on successes centering around the commercialization and customer adoption of innovative MedTech products/services. 

From Fortune 500 corporations through startups, he has built medical device innovations into record growth, elevated market shares, and attractive market valuations. 

A trusted business leader, Dave employs an analytical and data-driven approach to identify and capitalize on opportunities that will advance an organization’s strategic vision.

To learn more about what Dave does, go to his website at If you’d like to reach Dave directly, you can find him on LinkedIn at Dave Dolan, or you can email him at 

You're listening to health, innovators,a podcast and video show about the leaders influencers and early adopterswho are shaping the future of health care in your host Doctor Roxey Movie Welcome Back Health Innovators ontoday's episode, I'm sitting down with Dave Dolin, who is the executivechairman and Co founder of multi functional, imaging welcome to the showDave Ox. Thank you very much. The invitation is joy to be here. I'm gladto have you here so tell us a little bit about your background and whatyou've been innovating these days. Great Beth thinks I am a unbedeckedbeen in the industry for just over twenty years, I cut my teeth at gkhealth care in the diagnostic in agin space bolt capital equipment as well asservices. As my career is progressed, I've movedon to more agile and innovative companies is my career is progressedafter my sting, I was the GM platform leader for Becan Dickens. Institutiontherapy unit then went on to biosense webster, which is the electricphysiology unit, Johnson and Johnson, and I work for acutest medical for aspin and then co, Faland multifunction. Imagine back in two thousand andthirteen with my partner Dan Catalus. So what we are, as were an early stagecommercial company, and what we do is we specialize in making pets and Pepsit scanners run more efficiently, so, for instance, in the in the world ofcardiac pet, which is the gold standard for cardiac- imagine depend on the radetracer that a no medicine technician or a cardiologist with utilize. The Santakes about eight to ninety minutes. What our software does is able tocondense that time and actually be able to conduct the rust and stress on MartaBio, partial profusion image scan in about fifteen twenty minutes, and sowhat you get is you get the economies and scale you get much more of anefficient process and, most importantly, the patient benefits from a much surerduration of the scan that, quite frankly, be pretty intimidating whenyou look at from a patient stappit, so er yeah. So so, let's just talk about thatmoment when you decided that you were going to leave corporate health care and go out onyour own, what were some of those things that you thought and and kind ofweighed the pros and cons and making that decision? Yeah it was. It wasdefinitely a kind of a left turn. It actually came across the technology.When I was doing my my my NBA University of Utah, the Dean of the business school hadasked me to take a look at some of the invention. Disclosure at the Universityof Utah had which you probably aware the University of Utah Medical Centeris, is come of renowned cardiology facility, and I was asking to take alook in terms of one mention, disclosing that positions andprofessors have simite.

Oh yes, I regretted that offer almostimmediately because about three days after I agreed to do that, I had twolegal boxes: Full of paper files of advent of disclosures and I'll, be asit was about a t there's about a thousand that were submitted and aboutnine hundred. Ninety of them were really elaborate solutions of problemsthat haven't been adventabit a lot of innovations today right exactly thetypical. You know, text in out. You know kind of stuff, but I came acrossone that was really interesting. It was a a nuclear physicist had an hour ofthem to be able to condense the time it takes to do cardiac pat again gone fornineteen down to fifteen to twenty minutes. But it's kind of interestingis that he saw the value of it, whose initially was that I was going to beable to provide a better image. You know which it does, but I introducedmyself to them and I educated him- Love Hey. You know to say that one image isbetter than another. Image usually involves a pretty lengthy, criticaltrial. That would be difficult to try to finance but be able to say that youtake a ninety minutes GAM. It could densite the twenty minutes, that'ssomething you don't need to do. A comical trial for and the value isintrinsic, and so that night we decided to form an ll and you started buildingcompany up and that's incredible, so you certainly have been had your wayaround right with me. Vice operations, just kind of described for an audience.You know what was some of that experience, some of the things thatwere most exciting to you and most challenging to you when you wereinnovating or working for those innovativecompanies around Thad device yeah. Well, what drew me drive attention to thistechnology was actually my time at g health care. I was there for abouttwelve years and as a product, marketing manager or the services unitmyself on a teenage rafts, have kind of tackle kind of a serious problem, but ghealth care half the time, and that was they were losing service contracts fortheir OEM equipment or their GE equipment, and so often time up wasgoing on. I said they would have. You know if you're aware, there's a sitsystem, the soul for about two million dollars, but then also as a servicecontract to make sure that it's maintained and make sure the up time isup and those contracts can run about a hundred and fifty two hundred thousanddollars what we ran into in a lot of cases. Itwas either reformer g employees were oftentimes, former Phillips, so seasons,employers were forming their own service companies and then going in andforming the services at reduced price to two general electrics and somarketing was asked of hey. How can we address this because you know we'relosing our market share with this and...

...we were getting business and starting?We were certain to see price compression with our services, and sowe are dealt with that problem and we bring store and we came up with kind ofa clever idea. This is happening during the late S,Orly toand kind of in the middle of GE, six Sigma Renaissance, as you get inyou know like to call it where you, U spacial tools to be ableto make things more efficient, typically, a manufacturing discipline.I had known from my experience that customers did not like being told aboutsix at Moor being educated on six in, but we could see that this wouldactually be beneficial for this process and during this time, all employees,including myself, had to complete at least one project or one assignment tobe able to be Green Dell certified they called it. The sign and what we decideto do is kind of lean into that. We had a lot of service engineers or managerslike myself that had to do a project with the dear, and so we came up withthe performance solutions package for MRI n CK systems. where, for a premiumprice, we would assign you a rebel specialist that go in and figure outhow to make your scanning more officient m and so utilizing thosestills the beauty of. As we never mentioned, six sigma. We just said now:This is a. This is a premium service package, yeah and sure enough. It tookoff. We offered a uptied guarantee, as well as aperformance guarantee where we failed and they get more efficient, that therewould be money out of a pocket for us, but we signed about a hundred and fiftyof those contracts and we never had to issue any guarantee chet. What's thewebers that was always kind of in the back of my mind, of customers, valuehaving the their capital coupent being more efficient, you know, as you'reaware you got a pretty large capital asset, whether it's m I or CT andyou've got a capitate reimbursement, so you're limited in terms of how you knowhow profitable it could be for health care facility in really the only wayyou can you can make it more preferable is guide by getting more patience in,but improving the the Rupa, and so that was always kind of in the back of myhead, and so when Dan catter miss and I were able to go through his technology.That kind of sprang back to my mind. Here we go now we got a facilius tryingto do seven to eight patients that we could probably do like twenty fivepatients today, and so that's really was kind of the kind of where it'sstone from it all matters. Doesn't it all just builds on each other, yeah and what's Nice about what we doat multifunction image is that we like to say that we play low on the sandbox.What we mean by that is every partner within the value chain of the scanbenefits from our existence, so GE, Semans Phillips. They benefit from thefact that their capital assets now more attainable, because the return oninvestment is higher because they can get locations on the radio, tracercompanies or the the drug distributors. They benefit from our existence,because it's not pretend from Miss Ella Hole. Radio traces were still marked us,the health care facilities benefit, and...

...that is simply they bene for a cosscale. You know they're able to Itan more revenue while still maintainingthe you know the operating expenses and then, lastly, the patient befits the up,because you know I'm sure I draw a lot of your listeners that either Ben in aCT or a pet S T system before it's pretty intimidated and when you'retalking about doing a rest of stress. It's two separate scans that the PasionHouse has to do with our software. They really only do one at once and again asa much more pleasant experience, and so it's nice about us is we don't displaceany of US value, metforth all benefit from the existence of our software. So one of the things I think is sointeresting. If what you just described, is you know in health care we're allalmost always dealing with multi cided markets, even if we're not eventhinking about throughout the entire value chain, and you were able to soeasily articulate the value proposition for each one of e those players withinthat value chain, and I think that that's something that very oftencorporate innovators or you know start up entrepreneurs early stage on toentrepreneurs end up really missing out on is really you know, kind of sittingdown and mapping out that business model and looking at the value propeach stake. Holder Group- that's involved in that value chain, asopposed to who the user is or who the buyer is an and missing components ofthe value and commission keep components of that story. Yeah. It's pretty unique. I've got to,like I said twenty fut years in Mesech Industry and I've always on thecommercial stamp. Why I always came into all right as an a cumbent, I'mtrying to upgrade an import or service to something that they're currentlyusing the fine which presents a challenge or the tougher one. Therethey're comfortable with the competitor that they're currently using, and youhave to prove that you're that much better than that, so you're displacingsomething you know again. Sometimes we have to have a sit down, and I canexplain this because a lot of time customers don't get it. They feel thatthey're going to lose something and we're able to say no. Actually,everything becomes more condensed. Everything becomes more efficient. Youknow and like like I said, the the the equipment manufacturers benefit drugmanufactures benefit facility benefits a gain. Most importantly, the patientbenefits so much more pleasant experience, so I yeah so so you talkabout commercialization adoption launch, you know a lot of times. People in theindustry might use these words interchangeably and- and I like to justkind of pick- people's brains to kind of say from your point of view, what'sthe difference between commercialization and launch or goingto market in your experience yeah? Well, I'm abig fan of the book crossing the Chasm they went. What Cross anchas m talksabout is the various different stages of customers when you enter and youproduct or service. You know you have as typically referred to. Is thatreally adopters, which are pretty much...

...people that are in it for thetechnology? A lot you know, they're interested in how it's made and they'realso willing to kind of a bustle a lot of time to help you curate and developyour product. It's a really important group to embrace early on, but reallythe goal is to get to that second stage like they referred to as the erlingmajority, and these are people that represent kind of a large market place,but Mike, but probably think a little bit more progressively, and the idea isto and breakfast your earlier doctors, but try to get to that second phase ofthat early majority as fast as possible, because those are typically thefacilities that will act as we like to refer to it as pinball customers. Wheresay a large key opinion leader facility decides to utilize this other opinionleaders will fall in line when they see that it works for that person and somoving to that early majority as soon as possible, really benefits from beingable to effectively commercialize and do it cost sufficiently. Because youhave these key opinion leaders, you know tacitly endorsing what thetechnology can do. Beautiful and just so is a difficultfor the sounds. I didn't front you to say that, but this is one of my soapboxes, this early adoption strategy and having a different strategy for thosetwo slices. First, two slices of the market versus the mainstream market andin what I found is that most innovators don't really understand thatdistinction. They're building one go to market strategy instead of a differentone for those different spices of the market, and so then, just really in theearly stage of the company wasting a whole lot of time, trying to convincethat mainstream market to buy their innovation and there's thismisalignment of messaging and the offer. And so what you just just described issuch a golden nugget. For our audience and viewers to kind of grab a hold of-and you know how has that been a game changer for you in your own business? Well, it's really helped for awesome.You know, first of all beat those early adopters that you know take on yourtechnology, for technology, say they're, credibly valuable, because those peopleare also typically the ones that give you the most feedback, which isabsolutely golden when you're started, but I think we're sometimes, if you'rea small entrepen company. Sometimes you can follow a little bit too much inlove with the with that type of customer and we need to be able to doand kind of have the discipline of the second. You know you have that product.I led ten. Okay, it's like you know. You know it is ready to go, and now yougot a transition that discipline to we need to go to that larger earlymajority of customer now, even though it's scary, even though it might be alittle bit tough to get their attention at first, it's imperative that you makethat transition very quickly. So how are you finding thoses early adopters in the in thefirst two slices of that? How are you...

...finding those? What are you looking forthat's different than some of the mainstream market players that aregoing to be so much more resistant to what you have to offer early on yeah?In our case, this might not be everybody's case. My partner and Cofounder Gan Catera is he's a known quantity within a nuclearmedicine space in we are Ale to use a lot of his relationships that we getthat he had to the type of people that could really help us craft and be ableto tell us yes, okay. This is this is functioning the way it should, and then,when I kind of brought to the table a little bit is myself with kind ofbroader commercial experience at g and Bacon, Dickinson and biases cube, I wasable, once we were ready to go to that larger scale. Being able to take mycontacts and say all right, you know I was. I was one or two degrees removedfrom a lot of us contacts, but was able to translate over so, for instance,when we had our small consortium saying yes, all I heredy to go Dan and Iimmediately said all right: Let's transition this: Let's go into the mailclick and let's try to get the adoption over there because that's represented apital majority customer right Yep. That makes sense. And then I love whatyou're touching on too, and I think it's so important is how those earlybuyers really are the ones that help you sell into cross the chasm and fellinto the mainstream market. So just kind of talk about a couple of stories,maybe on some folks that what was that like for you being able to helpfacilitate that endorsement or that that word of mouth to help you crossthe CATICA yeah. We were pretty fortunate in that, as you know, tryingto get to those early majority of customers, and you have a lot of valueanalysis committees that you have to go through and again you're in a lot ofthose cases, you're trying to displace in a compend, okay, you're, trying tosay that we're five percent better than but you know, you're currently usingright now we are able to be able to drive home,especially with people outside of our internal champions was hey. This is aCassians for you. This is an efficiency tool for you. You know you're if you'rebe able to go from scanning seven times a day, thirty times a day without anyincremental operating expenses. To be able to do that. So we were prettyfortunate in that we had a really good economic story of why adopting thisjust as soon as possible, I was going to be a benefit of. We were talkingabout making improvements in the single digit branch. We were talking about hey,you could double your scanning through, but just simply by adopting thesoftware, and so that's what really helped us that that's what makes us alittle bit unique, Hey! It's Dr Roxy, here with a quickbreak from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves youneed to make to survive and thrive in the new Co vid economy? I want everyhealth innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivot strategy,which is why I created the Co. Vid proof, your business pivot, kid. Thepivot kit is a step by step framework...

...that helps you find your best pivotstrategies. It walks you through six categories. You need to examine for athree hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the sixcritical pivot lenses, as you make your way through this comprehensive kit,you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to make sureyou can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details andopportunities, learn more at legacy: Hyphen Daco Back Kit. So how have you maybe nurture nurturedor cultivated those Kol Relationships? Yeah? So we've had a great relationshipwith with the Mail clinic and they have written a paper speaking to our technology, which hasbeen especially helpful for us with that, and you know and again theywalked through sort of like their base case of how their the ute scannerutilization before our arrival and then after I think it was about six monthsof utilizing our software, what their thropp was at that point and so havingthat paper that they that they tend was extremely helpful for us and we're ableto showcase that to not only in users but also othercompanies that that have an interest in terms of a distribeted, our softwarefor US or apartment with us. So I know our audience wants to know. How did youget them to do that right? Because in health care I mean it's just this weirdthing where you know you can't put my loco on anything. You know. Yes, you'vebeen a great customer, I mean yea a great customer like we have a greatrelationship, but no, you can't include me in your slide deck. You can't put meon your website kind of thing right. It's just kind of a known thing inhealth care that maybe other industries don't encounter. So is that somethingthat you guys initiated? Was it something that may o initated? Whatkind of spurred that o something that we initiate? I tell you what there'snot a lot of magic to it? It's really about persistence, especially when yougo to larger facilities, a a go simply just a repetition and never accepting.No as an answer or I'd like to say is now is the second best answer you canget as long as you follow up with. Well, what else do we we have to do? You knowthat this isn't enough? What would be enough and- and what you got to do isis the fifteenth time you run into that. Don't roll your eyes, don't say I justsay: THAT'S INTERESTING! Okay, how could we address this so you'll be ableto adopt this so again, here perseverance is really the secret YepYep, just be stubborn, don't give up a so. I wanted to I made note here whenyou were talking earlier telling about the story. You said that you were anearly stage, you know...

...start up Medavie company, but that you,you started the company in two thousand and twelve and the right yeah yeah. What we did is isprinces. I did this as sort of like a sign. While my partner worked on thisfull time, and so we originally started. We started doingthe fun racing path that in racing trail, but we discovered pretty quickly,was no. We had some interesting offers from betriacum and it's also someprivate equity in our subsitute investments that were kind of broughtto our attention. We decide to take a little bit different, a route in thatwe sought federal and state grants that were not the little got to be able tobuild our company out now. The positive to that was well. We have control theorganization, you know we don't have a third part pay entity, that's drivingour strategy, you know the INS, the Tanyah. The downside is that it makesit much more a deliberate roll out, and so after after myself and my partnerslooked at it, we decided that R ip was strong enough, that, let's do thisdeliberately, and so we so we built it out slowly, we got our five tk and twothousand and eighteen. So you know five years after on the family were able toget her a five K, and I tell you what it's it's. It wasn't easy. It was along walk through the desert for all of us. How many times did you want to quit?Oh Yeah, you know there. It's also there'ssomething to be said. You know, being in a startup, sometimes could be veryromantic, but until you recognize it, okay, wow pay rolls Friday. We play that's real stress, that's when that'swhen you recognize okay, this is what being an oftener is really like, butyeah we've been commercial since, since two thousand and eighteen and and againwe're methodically building out our face, because we know that if you makethings more efficient, the economic story becomes that much more, that Benmuch more impactful, and so you know we're going about showcase in the factthat our customers of power much more efficient, could be. So. How are yougetting in front of? How are you building awareness in building thatdemand in front of your targeted customers, especially in this kind ofit's not ovid? It's not post coved, it's justthis quasi coved climate that we're in yeah good question. You know one my partnerDan Tateba again a very known quality and ute medicine, and so a lot of hisrelationships are able to help us do that. We recently hire a productmanager, who's, very commercial focus, who's driving. You know adoption withthat. What also we benefited from is there'sother companies within the space that participate in that value chain that Ispoke up earlier, that set up introductions for us to be able to comein and talk about what we're doing,...

...because it benefits them. It's Nice,where we're not contractual obligated for its as they're, not acting as adistributor but again they're, setting up warm invitations for us and say: Heyare you were with these people multipotent R imagin you're doing thismight be a benefit to your facility, which is fantastic and they would handthat over to us and then boom we're talking to talking to an in user that I,what exactly we're doing so we've really kind of benefited from that wordof mouth of companies within that got a dream. So a lot of the research thatI've done indicates exactly what you just said: That building that strongpartnership network is key to crossing the chasm like. If you don't have thatnetwork, you will really just kind of fall in and F flounder, so so thatmakes a lot of sense in this. Just this word of mouth, thisKol this partnership, you know kind of having that engine behind you again, so you don't even have to be e,the one that's creating all of that awareness and demand right, you've kindof got that exponential effect with other people doing it on your behalf.Even if you were you know, you know had millions of dollars to put into yoursales and marketing efforts. Yeah- and you know an if an a careerwhere, if I'm trying to tell a customer of why my good or service is betterthan a d say another, I would have to get a pen and a piece of paper out or Ihave to get I pat out and say well. This is why it qualtinger it's like.Okay, you doing a patient today, right now with us, we can get you to sixteenor twenty, and so I think, those those adjacent companies. They can kind of bea good advocate for us, because our value, how position is so simple, yeahyeah. So I noticed you know when we were talking earlier. You mentionedsomething about Jack Welch. Obviously, you know the leadership program. I wasI'm a professor at the Jack Welt Management Institute and I have to saythat the way he runs that school or at the leads that school is like he woulddo at Ge. It's, unlike any other university that I've ever attended orever worked for where the students are customers, just like you would in anyother business. Oh, I had the opportunity to go to theProtais, because you know it's kind of called internally yeah. It wasbeneficial in two different ways. You know you kind of get assigned a typically room with another person fromG at that, and so I remember eye rooms with a a Soviet or a Russian nationalwho worked in the aircraft engine unit. So one it was like great having thatexperience of o o. You know you're from Russia. Tell me about that. Exactlyit's like a me through how actually a jeint works, so you benefit from thoserelationships and then, like you said, I would say, the class that I was inprobably about third of the class was...

...actually customers, and so that'sanother dynamic, and it's good it's it was. You know. In my case, it was aweek long program, your cot pulled out of the field, you're told to putyourself one down and and let your team know that you're not going to beresponsive that week and no it's fantastic. You know I cherish my time age. The entireplaybook isn't transition outside of g. You know the some of it that you kindof got to leave and some that some of it Mierie over. You know, for instance, how how the fact that you value feedback toyour employees as well to your customers. You know be disciplined toshare feedback the planning process, both strategic and operating it,something I still lean on today, even though I love Ge quite a while ago, butyeah there's some of it that doesn't carry over that. But that's that'sthat's why you see a lot of people from g excel in other areas of because theypick up those nice nuggets or pearls that translate anywhere yeah yeah,that's great! So you did touch on a business plan and you know, just Ithink every you know founder has a business plan of some sort. If we allstacked our business plans side by side, they probably would look very verydifferently in a number of ways. So what there some of the key components Imean you don't have to go through like the basics of business plan. But whatare some of the key components that you have found that has been like the components of the strategiesthat have been really key to success that you've accomplished so far. It was funny. You should ask thatquestion because my partner and I we had a little bit of fun about sixmonths ago. We pulled out our original business plan from two thousand twelve and it's exactly what you're doingtoday right yeah the Samantine. But you know, I tell you what it's beenit's to fault. What I've cured em from G is the two step process. Theyrepurchase the session one session to the timing of its not necessarilyimportant, but g in the springtime would do what's called the session one,and this is the five year business plan and really what it's about is. I alwaysjoked about. It was defending your life, meaning that telling about the market.Tell me about the competitive threats. Tell me why this is even going to be anindustry five years from now, so it was less about what we were actually doing.It was like tell me about the market, yeah and really they re evaluating. Isthis a good space to be in right and there was a lot of decisions that wasmade at that meeting by hey? You know what are the external drivers? You knowhow do we know that you know patients are going to continue to need this typeof therapy, and so that was beneficial, and then I mean that's either not likeKodak or blockbuster right at all, was reed to a session to andthat at last, this iss how the next...

...year is going to roll out. This is, youknow, are direct comparitive treats. This is what our Breton is going to be.This is what our expenses are going to be, and it was much more of anoperating plan, type of scenario, so we have adopted that where we do thattwice a year or kind of in a springtime, more strategic, you know on all oroperating focus, but when you're a small company, you got to be a lot lessrigid and you got the a lot more open minded to okay. That was a good ideathree months ago, but you know we're going to divert our path now and ableto do something like this, and so when you're in a large company like a GElike a seaman's, it is kind of, like a bat show. Okay, in that, you could begot of course, and this is what the entire plan I set up for this is whatshareholders are expecting and we're going to do it this way when you'reenfrenzied, you have to be able to adapt to what the market has been ableto serve up to you. I encourage all of our clients to create these ninety dayplans, because I say that you know once you go beyond that, like there's somuch that changes is especially in this climate that we're you know operatingunder right now I mean so much changes, and so I think that's you know thebeauty of being a start up or being a CO founder right.You get a chance to pivot and adapt and iterate in a much faster way than youcan when you're this big behemoth organization, like a GE or bd yeah, and I think, also what's really beneficialwhen you're in a smaller, more agile environment, is that you can inviteyour customer and to help you with that's strategic mindset. You know Iyou know, I worked in a for a small private equity firm. A couple of yearsago and worked in the electronic health care record space and we're able tosign on a really large truble one of the two big players and we're able tocome in after we got them on board and we're helping them out. I asked for ameeting with their their executive team and I asked them of Hey. How are we doingwent do some dash boards and we perform you. Well, I said wow, you guys break,I really happy. We adopted you guys to service, and then I said Bo. Okay,that's great! Can I ask you a favor and they're like shot of whatever whereverit be, did and is a, and I said what else could we be doing for you? Youknow, I think that there's other services or other types of things wemight be able to do for you. What Mike some of those big and I'll never forget.You know the chief compliance officer stood up with the mark. Er went to thewhite cord and said: We've got all these different things that we haveseven different venders taking care of for us, and I'm sitting here, feverswriting all this. Now and after about forty five minutes, he stops. He putsthe cap on his pen and he goes. You know what you will be dinner tonight. I.Why do I a dinner tonight he's like? I just give you your strategy exactly? Yes, you did...'s as grateful for that meeting. It'sI mean that's such a great story, a real story. You know personal exampleof you know this idea of Co creation that I'm always preaching for anadvocating for and- and I hope that more organizations do it, whetheryou're, big or whether you're small, being able to invite customers into theconversation and to our RND teams. Our marketing teams are sales teams in notbeing embarrassed by asking those questions right. It takes. You had togo put with ego at the door and be humble to say, hey well, what do youwant next? Instead of acting like you know what they want next, and I thinkthat the companies that adopt co creation are going to be the ones thatwin, because they're going to stay closest to the customer and they'regoing to be able to deliver what the customer wants in a way that's going tobe very different than those organizations that are, you know,making a lot of assumptions and building their strategies and productsolutions based upon that yeah yeah. It was very fortunate. I think that one hesaw that we were a small company that was hustling and that we were, you know,really working hard to exceed their expectations, and we have somecredibility to that. And and again I think this individual came up with liketwelve fantastic ideas, and I came back to my week later and said: No, I thinkwe could do three of these and they end up being really good and trust me. I Iwant to do all of them, but a did I not be a limited beings to be had to takethe high runners she and yeah it was it was. It was great and yeah. He enjoyedher a steak dinner that night well, and I think that discernment thatyou just described is also extremely critical, because you know you're also lookingthrough that lins okay, the the customer provided these twelve ideas,but that doesn't mean that all twelve of them are viable or feasible. Youknow being able to commercialize them across the entire ecosystem. You know more customers. It could bejust this one particular customer- and I think that goes back to what you weretalking about earlier on when you've got those that smile sliver, that firstliver, that's really like into technology for technology's sake, andyou don't want to get caught up in the trap of building customizing, somethingfor them and they kind of take over that product development and then gotsomething. That's really great for these three customers exactly right,exactly you get, you got to be thinking of what the early majority customerreally wants. That's that's! Where you got a hat, that's your North Star thatyou got to follow right, yeah, so Dave! This has been a fantastic conversation.Is there anything else that you want want to share with our listeners beforewe wrap up today? No, I just want to thank you very muchfor for allowing myself to talk about multi functional imaging. You can findmutinosa image at Haltit Imago. You can...

...also look me up. I looked in if youwant to reach out to myself and my email addresses Dave Dot Dolon at nfinego awesome. Thank you so much for joining me today, Doctor Othes, a plea, thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and Ivalue your time and attention to get the latest episodes on your mobiledevice automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast tap likeapple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening, and Iappreciate every one who shared the show with friends and colleagues, seeyou on the next episode of Health Innovator, a.

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