Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 123 · 4 months ago

How to fund an early stage innovation in 4 pitches or less w/ Daniel O’Connor


You’ve heard me talk about commercialization a million times - all those tried and true methods to commercialization and funding aren’t new and, we know they work.

But one thing you can always count on happening, whenever you get comfortable with a process, is a new idea coming along to shake things up a bit.

What if I told you there’s a way to fund an early stage innovation in 4 pitches or less? I bet that got your attention.

And there’s even more out of the box thinking to examine and consider.

Touching on everything from commercial models, validation, patents and investments, Daniel O’connor brings his process on commercialization and pitching to the table for discussion.

So, if you’re ready to take a deep dive into an exciting new concept on commercial models and successfully launching your product, pull up a seat and grab some coffee!

Here are the show highlights:

  • The real value is in the model (1:46)
  • Understanding the Commercial Model (9:21)
  • How to validate a Commercial Model (11:25)
  • Patents and intellectual property (14:18)
  • Investments with four pitches or less (19:18)
  • Understanding leverages (27:26)

Guest Bio

Daniel O’Connor is the Consultant and Principal for Kickstart Plus. A Management Consultant and Business Coach with 38 years of experience in innovation, he has been Company Director of a number of companies, private and public, listed and unlisted, in Australia and overseas.

Daniel specializes in intellectual property portfolio management and commercialization, including an online global coaching and mentoring program.

The Australian member of the UN Task Force on Innovation and Competitiveness, Daniel works with business and government leaders around the World on transferring suitable innovation to developing countries.

Learn more about @Kickstart Plus on their LinkedIn page or if you’d like to reach Daniel directly, you can also find him on LinkedIn @Daniel O'Connor.

You're listening to health innovators, a podcast and video show about the leaders, influencers and early adopters who are shaping the future of healthcare. I'm your host, Dr Roxy Movie. Welcome back to the show health innovators. On today's episode I'm sitting down with Daniel O'Connor, who is the consultant and principle for kickstart plus. Welcome to the show, Daniel. Thank you, D you. I'm doing great. It is so wonderful to have you here, especially with our twelve hour time difference with you being in Australia. So I am so grateful that you took your Friday evening to spend with us this today. All my pleasure. So I like to start off every episode with our guests being able to give a little bit of background information and kind of what you've been up to these days. Okay, well, for the last years I've done really one thing and that is commercialized intellectual property. For most of those years I did it for large corporate and also for universities, and that was all fine, but I found a bit big needles and little inventors and they couldn't afford me. So when covid hit us, in two thousand. Sorry, we all changed our lives and I had a chance to take all of my thirty eight years of learning and compressive into courses and I've made those filter out onto line so people can actually go online and do a self pace learning course and learn how to do it, and I've been able to share corporate style information at inventor prices. So that's been good because I think there's been a lot of anks with inventors. We've all heard about our don't get off the ground and I had a reason behind that, why that is and I've believe what I give people a chance to learn will actually here with that. So I imagine that you've learned quite a bit over the last thirty eight years of helping inventors commercialize their innovations. Yeah, one of the keys for for me is that people focus on their product and the product doesn't have the value. The value is actually in the commercial model that you wrap around with the product. If you do that right, that's the interface between your product and the need. So you're out there with the product which is going to satisfy a need or it's going to solve the problem, and if you always search that problem and work backwards to the solution. You'll always have something that will have demand, providing your process, your costumes. Right. Yeah, I mean that's very much aligned with what I've uncovered too, is that the number one reason why people fail is because there's no market need. So they're just building stuff that they're passionate about but that industry, are buyers don't really want. Are Aren't willing to exchange dollars for work. Yes, well, don't have a problem. It's going to hurt it. Don't fix it. Yeah, a fix an example of that and one of the best projects I've ever done that almost didn't get off the ground. If you want, I can spend five minutes centimical about it. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, the products called Peloton is still out there. It was four clients of mine who are off the scale in aspergers syndrome. These guys are really, really focused and two of them a PhD is. One of them traveled the world for eight and a half years to teach himself twenty seven languages so you could come back and program in different languages, and they wrote Software Program in twenty eight languages, English being one of them. Whether you're aware of it. If you buy a TV from Japan and you have a remote control and a TV and hit the remote, there's an e prominently rosibile pre programmer will relably memory chip in the remote and one in the TV and they talked to each other. Well, they're all programmed in English because English is the way equity...

...program and we have for since, for the last sixty years. So now these guys have developed away. So if somebody was sitting in Africa and could only speak Swahili and wanted to put up gates for irrigation and manage them from his iphone, he could do it by programming in swahily, or he could do Urdu or Hindi or Russian or Korean or Kenji, anything he wanted to do, he could do it all in those languages and then flip it into English to eaminment before he could then programming onto a meat problem. What it meant was it got rid of all these things like we have problems like English language is very complex. We had words like reverse, which could be turned around. I can go backwards, it could be flipped, it could be inverted. It's a lot of different me into English and these guys had to overcome all of that. So it was a big problem for him. So they worked it all out, they wrote the languages and then we took that project off to to Japan because we wanted to selve the idea that the Japanese companies could program in Kenji and not have to worry about in is shitting more. And there a response was very telling me. Basically ship, we don't have a problem, it's not broken, we're not going to fix it. So these guys went back to the drawing boarders. Well, what do we do with this? There was a beautiful program and then it became well, why don't we teach people how to use it so that I will adopt it? But I don't whether you know much about programmers, but programs are very tribal people. If you learn in Plus, plus or clipper or fore train, that's really the language you're going to stay with for most of your life and you will enjoy it working in that language and you'll make you'll expand the programming the language to fit those so you don't have to go outside it to do other functions. And that's great for you, but it means that they couldn't get you to transfer over to their software, which could be in all these languages. So it pretty much killed a lot unless they could get people at schools and the education departments just couldn't believe it could be done. So it became quite an issue. But eventually the way we solved it was quite testing. Just as I mentioned, they were aspirages and these guys didn't think outside of any boxes. They were very, very centered, centrally focused, and what they said to them was we sat down enough project status for a view meeting. We said this has failed so far, but it doesn't mean it. But it's a great product. How do we get it going? What we have to do is now take it backwards and go find a problem that this consolved. It means you're going to have to use your language to go and create a solution to a problem that you find out there. And they say what sort of problem? I said, let's make it a business problem, because business people have more money than others to speed on solve business problem. So they google it, as you do. They didn't want to create any problems. They didn't know what a business problem was. And what they found was the ninety no three, one of the biggest problems. Who Business was one of Mac of paradox. If you know that one of Mac of Paradix, John Waer Macer, owned, I think it was macy's in Philadelphia in n three and it was the big first department store the world and he was quite successful and spent a lot of money on advertising it. But one of the things he found was, and he made a statement which became the one a make of paradox. He said fifty cents and every dollar that I speed on advertising is wasted. I just don't know which fifty cents. And that was the problem that nobody could ever solved because our agencies don't watch you and and they watch you spin more money. That's a that one. They don't want to admit that half of the many that they spent was wasted in the other half did all the work. So they it becomes quite problematic. But what these guys did is they brought outside the box. And this was about four years ago. We got one of our local auto clubs where his subscription membership and they branch out. Now they don't just do rights at roadside support. They give you home loans and car loans and services and holidays and you name it. They had twenty three different products in there, at least across twenty one different media that they used, from TV, radio, billboards, united everything they used, and so we were broken all down.

And they brought ten thousand, sorry a one thousand, range of digital phone numbers and they gave it to them and said, and they wrote a program using their peloton that would say, okay, every time the number comes in from every billboard, every advert all had different phone numbers on it and they all came back to the switchboard and the switchboard worked out which add took the phone was that phone call was from when they put it in, when the girls who took the cause created a crm entry for that person or automatically advocated the phone number, they could tell where the advertising was working and as a result of that, within four months they said this fifty cents is and working rob move it over double their advertising applet. So it was very cleverly done. The irony of that was the ad agencies hated it, absolutely loathed it, because all their creative stuff wasn't working and they could now get caught on it. But men by loved it and so they ended up taking it licensing it and we it's now around the world being used by media buyers who are being able to focus their adverts more cleverly and get more bang for the black for their clients. Great idea. So what a great example of building a commercial model that's feasible and viable around a business problem or around a problem Um and around in an invention or an innovation. It's a commercial model remodeling, basically from that it was a great product that was going to be a failure. So, uh, besides that example, help our audience understand what is it that you mean when you stay commercial modeling? Okay, commercial model is I run commission modeling where shops. This part of want to do. When I do this it takes four hours and we start with two hundred and forty four questions and that blows out to about four hundred points on the other points on the mine mat that's quite extensive. But what we have to do is people say, okay, we we want to understand the product. They don't. I actually want to understand everything around the product. I'm assuming you're reading the product right and if you don't, by the time you'll understand all the other information around it, you'll come back and fix the product. So if we start with things like who has the problem that you're going to solve? How do they solve it right now? Where do they go to solve it? That's going to tinue you. What channels you use? How much should they pay to solve the problem? What if they choose not to solve the problem, can they live with how much money they're going to lose as a result, like it ain't fix don't broake it. It ain't broke, don't fix it, sorry, and all of these and where they go, how much they pay? Will it will just solve the problem better? Will it be cheaper? Will be more effective? And then we work backwards around but you have to look at pricing and costly. We look at other areas are like environment issues. So these are outside issues that can impact on you as an organization or a project that you can't control, things like political, legal, regulatory so of society or economic, competitive, technological issues, all these things that can impact on it, including shareholders that you can't necessarily control, but they're going to affect you if you let them, because later on, when you go and get it strategic partners, they were going to say what are your risks and you have to be able to articulate all of this and how you're going to mitigate and when you can do that. They understand you know my business, I know your business. We're good partners. That's what it's about. So when we do all of that, we prepare all this workshop for them, all the questionnaires and build it all up. We've got a full commercial model, which is really the interface between what you build and who is going to buy it and why they're going to buy it. And how do you xaliity that? Well, there's four stages of validation. There's obviously proof of concept, there's market validation. So there's three steps on that. One is we assume you know what your clients do or what the product...

...project is. that it may not, and so we have to go out there and do primary and secondary research. Secondary Research is easy. We've got on des stop and we pull down reports, or sometimes we'll commission reports to get information on that particular industry and find out what all the trends are. And that doesn't tell you all about the problem, but it does hear you what the industry is doing. So we have to look at the industry. There the people who are going to compete against you or license your product. And we also look at the market for people we have the problem and how they solve it. So the market goes to the industry to buy solutions for their problem. So we have to balance those out and we have to look at all of those. But sometimes we'll do focus group meetings, sometimes we'll just do direct interviews. Many a time I can go to the US, for instance, and I make appointments with people like, for instance, I've been to Detroit where I pulled in people from the automotive industry for a lunch at the Australian Trade Commission Office in Detroit and that was great because they showed up. They wouldn't have shown up if I just invited them, but they were getting a royal invitation. So coming to lunch gay embasy. Oh, that's good. So we did them there and we sat down and gave the Munch and Nice Australian ones and said he's a problem and they sat down and these guys were competitive, competers, competitors with each other, but they sat and talked and it was fun. I had a lot that day and we didn't actually that particular project as a result. So there you go. Well a little bit. That product was a internal combustion engine. It was a very clever one, but all we ended up doing with that was one patents were wasted. Hundred twenty patents. One Patent kept going and that's she used today in misters for the nasal sprays and the lights. And it's what these guys did is they created an ejection system for fuel, but it was for oils as well. Hardly Miss Goods fuel. So as a result they were und the use, I think, liquids and Mr into the nises. So the technology was all about field ejection. have nothing to do with the engine. The engine thing. It wasn't picked up by anyone. Wow, that's fascinating. Yeah, crushed that weight when I hand back to get the report. Let me to I bet, I bet. Um. So there's well, sometimes you got to be the truth teller. Um. So, so you've mentioned, Um, you know, intellectual property. Um, I P quite a quite a few times here today, and you know there's there's different journeys in that path. So speak to that a little bit of when does someone need to get a patent and when in that commercialization journey? How important is it and is there like a specific time of when that needs to happen? Okay, well, what pattern is great protection America is starting to change a little bit. I continue because the pattern is gives you very little, but a pattern plus pattern insurance gives you protections. If you're not big, you're going to be in problems trying to reinforce your patent, particularly in pharmacology, in places you're there a little more ruthless, where you find you get a summons from somewhere in East Texas to say we want to challenge you on your patent, and believe me, that can last few years and I hate the dog fight of pattern. But at the same time you need protection. That protection its ownership. So I've distilled everything in terms of commercialization down to six easy steps and if you understand the six steps, it doesn't matter whether you've got a left handed potato peeler or you've got an internal I've got a thrust or project propulsion thrust engine going through at the momentum for Um, which could be torpedoes and the lights. But the whole idea here is it doesn't...

...matter what the product is if you follow the same six steps. It will get me through, and people don't understand those steps are there. That are always there. They're like laws. But most importantly, these sequenced and we end up going out and jumping into a patent first thing. And the problem there is because we don't know who to talk to. So if you're an inventor and you've got a problem with you've got a great idea, somebody says, jot it down, make sure you've got it. Now, go and see a patent attorney. That's probably not what you need to do straight away, because patent attorneys their business model is a little bit problematic for an inventor. They have a situation where they're going to be a make partner. They've got to make sales and they don't go out and script for sales. They wait for people to come in and if you come in there, they not consider you away. So they're going to turn your three things. This is the best thing I've ever seen. You need a patent and you need it today, and here's the paper work. Signing out will get started, and that probably a little bit affordable when it's a five thousand dollars decision. But in exactly twelve months to the day, it becomes a sixty thousand dollar decision or a hundred thousand dollars to any how many countries you have to protect. So it becomes it blows out to a bigger problem. So what I do is I tend to with the ideation and commercial modeling, which is the first step. I tend to make people aware that they can take other steps to not forgal patent but push out the patenting process so it becomes awareness needed, because I like to get a patent provisional drafted but not large, and use non disclosure agreements, waiver of rights agreements. So if you're working with somebody to help develop the particularly universities, they must waive the rights to any other ideas that come up as a result that your collaboration with them. So then you can still own all of that as the inventor. So there's a lot of important things like that. There's also non agreements, which are difficult to get when you're talking with engineering funds. Getting someone, a design engineer, to work on something, you've got to make sure he doesn't work on something similar. But anyway you can work through all those agreements and you can keep your products secret up until a point where you're ready to fund it, and even when you pitch, you don't pitch to people. All of that's gone. Now we do it. We do we usually get our money in four pitches or less, and there's a way to do that. And as a result of that, we can put them down to a nondiscoisural agreement and we can say we will show you the provisional patent, which would be lodged the day before you give us money, because we're going to we want a full twelve months before we have to convert that pattern and we don't want to pay for it. You don't want to pay for it, we want the project to pay for it. So it must be earned in cash by twelve months. So that's the sprint to the start, if you like. I can't tell you how many people I have come across who have actually reached out to me and said, you know, I've got eight patterns, I've got twelve patterns. No Commerce will model. It's kind of like a patent collector and and kind of looking for a problem and I think that could probably be its own business um, but very different than what we're talking about here. With the intention of actually bringing something to market. Yeah, and a patent is really just a lossns to sue somebody very little. People think about locency. Well, locency, but your loscens to convention model. The patent just keeps that the buyer or the losncy some protection for that. Hey, it's Dr Roxy here with a quick break from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves you need to make to survive and thrive in the new covid economy? I want every health innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivot strategy, which is why I created the covid proof your business pivot kit. The pivot kit is a step by step framework that helps you find your best pivot strategy. It walks you through six categories you need to examine for a...

...three and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the six critical pivot lenses. As you make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you need to make sure you can pivot with speed without missing out on critical details and opportunities. Learn more at legacy, Hyphen DNA DOT COM. Backslash Kit. So let's go back to this comment that you made around Um investments with four pitches or less Um, because I can tell you that most people in our ecosystem are not going to believe it. I'm going to flip the you're thinking entirely on the tape. Okay, you thought all about returning destment. Everybody does, but I can tell you there are five more important reasons why people in this now, to give you a full picture of these, I discovered this. This is called and stone investor model and I created it in two thousands and sixteen and it came to me when I was sitting on a suitcase at the end of a runway at the irrewarding Delta in Western Burma. I've just come out from interviewing somebody because I have a role in Um Task Force for innovation and competitiveness on the Australian member for that, and we were doing a project. In two dozen sixteen. We're writing, actually writing a table top a desktop book on table, Coffee Table Book, and it's called innovation from adversity. The whole idea was we interviewed, we set out to interview eighty innovatives with WHO had no access to resources such as universities, government grants and company of Baker loans and things where they had to from dirt, pick up and create stuff, and so this was low level innovation, but we're able to become successful. Terman, who was what success was, because it's not going to be five million dollars or one million dollars or hundred dollars. So we said they had to be independent enough that they were supporting their families and their communities, are giving back into their communities and we felt that that would be registered as success. So we decided to do it right across developing countries only, and we work on people who didn't have resources. Some people don't have internet and they still create stuff. I had a guy in northern India who created air conditioning without any electricity. So very clever way of doing it. He could core a room like you wouldn't let and really all he did was the top level of his house. He took out every second brick and put the two leader coke bottles, plastic coke balls and chopped the end off and each of both ends put them into the country and that was enough to create vortices as the air flowed through and take it out the other side. He cleared of that room pretty quickly. So it was a ventury effectivity. And yes, so what we did to view aging people, and we ended up doing about fourty six, I think. But what we were doing we're hiring students, bilingual students from different universities around the world, and they were interviewing people and then they were coming back doing an interview one day and taking photographs, sending it all to us at the night. We'd listened to it in English, because they would interpret it and then send us the translations and we were then right back to the email them and say that's good, or we need better photos or whatever, just for the book. So people were doing that. We were in colliding all this information. It was taking over a year. But while I'm doing this, I was doing an interview which I did in personally in Irrawaddy, which is in western Burma, and while I was there with an interpreter, I come back after the interview and I just asked my set of questions and I'm sitting waiting for this little at what they wanted to call an aircraft, to come and pick us up and take us back to ranggoon and while I was here, I was listening to one that was just done... Doha or Dhaka, I think it was Dhaka in Bangladesh. We had the lady d doing an interview with somebody and they she asked a question which I just asked and the same answer, which was quotally unique, came back and I thought that's what a coincidence. So when I got back to my hotel, I dived into several other interviews and found I was getting the same response. So the question was all about why of the interview. We also interviewed not just the event but the people around them, and we are interviewed the funders and we said why did you jump into this project? And they came back with different answers, and so I'm going to share this with you in a minute. That just to give you an idea. We wanted to check that a valid date that. So what I did was using not very scientific validation, but we interviewed some of my clients in Australian, Singapore, US and Canada. We asked them one question. We went to the Ventas we said, we talked to the people have invested in new project. They gave us to the phone numbers and everything posibly. said. Bring Them Up. Said who introduced ourselves? He said what made you jump into that project? We didn't say why did you invest? We just asked what made you jump into that project? And what we found was, firstly, there were four things that differentiated them from what we considered was our target market, which is high net with individuals who wanted to return on investment. Firstly, nearly all of them were not investors. They just got in for other reasons. The next thing was none of them invested for a return on investment or I just didn't count for them. So that myself just kind of blew us away. And there was also a high level of cash top ups. A lot of these people, when they dived into these projects, they didn't actually or put it in just, let's say, a million dollars or a hundred dollars. They put in some of it was cash, some of it was services, some of it was access to equipment, some of it was accommodation within their factories or whatever. So it was a lot of different cash top ups, non cashtop up, sorry, and almost none of them at the early stage. But High Net, the individuals who came into the projects so that kind of blew me away because I was always hunting and begging, that cycle of hunting and begging that we do for high net with individuals. Well, I've got a nice watch on. I need to talk to you about the project I've got. Um, I shuted when I think of it now. But as a result I discovered that returnal investment is a big issue, but it's number six out of all the issues, and this was Um we did a modal average rather than any other medium mean average. We just did modal average and we come up with the top six, because the number six was returning investment. It's pretty important to know what that was. But just going through the other five, number five was a novelty. Yes, you have to have something that's a little bit different and if you don't, white people just unattracted to something that's the same as something else, even if it will make money. It's very little attraction there. The next one is you had to have an exit plan. A lot of people never thought of that. Investor doesn't get in to get money, they get in to get out and they only make money when they get out. So if you don't have that natural pathway to exit, which might be we're going to sell the company at this point and split up. I'm going to buy the company from you or you're going to buy the company from me, but either way you know what's happening and when, and even if they don't take that exit point, they've got it stated for them. That was important. The next one was that we had to show them that we understood what the risks were and we managed to remember it. We've talked about that. Um of the ideation commercial mob worshop that I do the two questions and I look at the environment. That's the risks. We need to understand what the risks are so they can say these guys understand the risks, so therefore I can be safe that they have mitigated some of that risk. The number two reasons was the commercial model. It's always going to be high, but it would been number one, but... was that. It was actually number two. The number one reason why people invest in projects was not returnal investment. It's always leverages and people don't understand what leverages are. If you get an understanding of what leverages are, you'll own that process forever. I've actually got a free e book and I can give people a download for it if they wanted to get it, but literally in your episode? Yeah, that's fine. Pretty long later on, do you want me to explain what leverages are? Yeah, let's let's talk about that. Okay, I'll give you one example that I normally use. Let's say I have an invention for Um, a will alignment system that can do willowlignments for fifty dollars. Everywhere else out on the market doesn't you cost them a hundred dollars to do a widdle ements? And you own ten outlets in your city of tires, so you sell a lot of tires, you fix wheels, etcetera. And you've got your wordes stabling. Let's say you've got thirty thousand people and your customer list. You'd have your smart operator. So you've divided those into a list, b list and C list. Your Ce list customers brought from you once, you never saw them again. B List buy from you when you have specials and very little else, and a list of people that always come back to you because they have lovely service. So you want to turn your ce listers into day listers and be listers up day listers as well. How do you do that by emails and by giving them specials and nurturing them. Basically, I come on with this will linement thing and I say give me a million dollars and I'll build fifteen the machines. The first team will go inside your work team outlets and I own them but will work them together for the first twelve months. At the end of twelve months you can buy them, but you have exclusive rights to these in your city for the next twelve months. So you've got the first leverage you're getting is limited debatability. No one else has that limited access. No one else has access to it. The next one is you then write to your customers and say I'm doing nine nine dollars for the next month. I'll do willle element and a free tie check. Now you're going to sell a lot of little moments, but you can sell a lot of tires as well. So your average is probably going to be about a sail because people will buy six hundred dollars for the tires because they came in for a little moment because their tires were playing up and if they've got a bad writtle moment, they've got bad tire. What happens to your sell tires. So, as a result, you're making some good money out of this and you will recover your million dollars. You can calculate before you start how many bookings you need to recover your million dollars. But that's not my money, that's not that's just you earning money on site because you're able to leverage the fact that you own to an aligned business. And that's good for me because I've got a sist to one million dollars, now another. So the leverage is reciprocal trade. But then we're not limited limited access for limits of time. And another leverage, and I do fourteen different leverages on companies, but when I measure them? But another leverage might be that, instead of me give it, you giving me a million dollars. I don't need money. I want you to pay the the steel guy, a guy that does a C and c pressing, the guy that builds the control box, a guy that makes the hydraulics, guy that does the wiring harness, the guy that does altogether fabrication and the guy that tests approves it. All those guys need to be payed. Well, if you pay those bills direct instead of playing me, your account's going to say congratulations. As a collaborative research partner, you get the tax deduction right out. So it means that you're giving me a million dollars. You're actually paying the million dollars for the bills, and for that you're getting, and might be half my company whatever I've decided to inequity on giving you. More importantly, you've got fifty cents in the dollar back from a tax deduction for it because you've done research and the donor. So you've mitigated half of your risk just on that. The other half you recovered on your first of all, not sales. And then we start to explain the business together and you still know it. So you can see that if I get somebody...

...use from the industry or the market and I work on them and I can size their leverages and make their investment, I can discount their risks and zero when I make the presentation to they're going to say, yes, it's that easy. Well, that's a complete opposite of what I often here, which is I pitched a hundred investors and they still don't know what I even do. And the laws are there. We have really ownerous laws about pitching to a hundred people as much as we're not allowed to give them the document twenty four hours either side of the pitch because the law says we can't do that. We've got to wait for twenty four hours and then send it to unless they so we've circumvented all of that. We are once it's some twenty people, we don't have that issue and we only pitched to usually it's under five and we very rarely get more than one investor that's a corner stone investor at one party. And because we're very early stage, we are at ideation, commercial modeling stage. We haven't got cash flow with much of our projects haven't got up the ground yet. They're just coming out of the idea phase, done the research. Don't know. They've got something pretty, sometimes even pretty, and patenting and they're ready to go and weaving commercializing it and raising the capital, and that capital is usually we're quite more expensive than others. We don't ask for a lot of money necessarily. OUR COINS INVESTOR MODEL doesn't go beyond two million dollars M I've had one in Florida that went to eight corn eight million dollars for that's unusual. So so Daniel as you think about it. Um, you know, our our audience are dedicated to healthcare in different different Um, you know innovation types within the healthcare industry, service as tax, software, Med device, pharmer, etcetera. Um, and they're all at different stages. What are some of the other tips or lessons learned that you would want to share with them? Okay, I'll show you a story that I think was probably the best lesson I learned in pharmacology. Well, this wasn't so much there was a thump cology coming involved. But Um, the inventor had a product which was basically it was advantanced wound care for diabetic ulcers. So diabetics, for your clients that don't understand, it's really hard to make a diabete also heal over and so if you can deliver what they call a single oxygen under the thin film of the coach the wound, it will cool, it will heal a lot faster, but really significantly faster. And so these guys were able to do that just by accident and it was just brilliant. By that idea and they wanted to expanded and they had the wrong people and then we changed the team. I was brought in to change the team, and for the guy we got for it was very successful in his own right. Retired. He was a thoracic surgeon. He had successfully developed lifetime stints. was his thing and he licensed that to a Chicago company I shouldn't mention, and made a lot of money out of the hundreds of millions of dollars. He retired and I said to him you can't tie you're too young, so you go crazy and he brought himself for a Ferrari, or less it was a Macerasi, and he just was living in Los Ange speedy days. So we said to him he's a project in Dallas. These guys have got this really good product, and he looked at it. He had did he a little bit of Gudialousy. He said, come with me to Chicago. I want to introduce you to some people and see whether than I can get this going. So we went to Chicago and he put a very rude pitch too this health company. He said, if I get this...

...going and I get it to this amount of turn over, will you buy it? And he came away with a deal that said basically four things. You must get it to a hundred million dollars in sales, we will give you five times multiplier. We'll give it to you. It must be done in four years and we have to be able to buy the whole one mm hm. And he got that deal set up in four years. It's two years in and he's going to make it so he has a half a billion dollars sale before he put a dollar into that. That's not bad, not bad at all, and everybody here listening and watching wants to do that that. I've never done that before. I've watched this can do and now I'm telling everyone because he'd been there. He was just a new knowledge team. It was just no how he just did what he did before. He's the deal. Yeah, okay, well, that's what we do, that's what we've are a lot of companies now, are particularly big companies. They used to have their own R and D departments. Very few do now because it's too expensive to run and it's very hard to manage. They're working on a project and it's going wrong, the teams don't want to tell the managers because they'll shut it down, so that everything's kept secretive until either really is successful or it flops, and that could be a lot of money in a lot of time before you realize that. So what the companies do these days? They've in the past. They used to do hunting, where they go out and look for opportunityites, and that's a good way to do it because you can get projects are wined to you or you can harvest you can grow them within your own backyard. And that's where the three Ms of this world still do it and they do it remarkably well. But of course they are focused on prices that fit their aligned to their distribution channels, etcetera. So they and their teams do that and do that and repeat and they're very good, would have it. Or the third way now is trapping. So we know of trapping, going out laying a lot of traps and waiting to see what you catch them next morning. Well, this sort of trapping is where they go out and they find ten companies in the Um the Medtech area on this particular product or this particular problem, and I say this ten different companies around the world working on it. We want to give them each two hundred thousand dollars. So we've invested two million dollars and all that's brought us is an option. If they succeed. We sit there and the benchmarks Kpis and we say, if you meet those, come back and talk to us and will features some more. So they're feeding out this money. It's all R and D it's all being written off its own lead to getting tax reductions for it, and they're not managing the projects. But in fact they could wipe the hands of it and needing time and if a project collapse, they might take to take some of the people out of that and give them to someone else. So they are minor shareholders as these projects grow, but they have optioned is to take it on and that way all the early stage risk is near somebody else's so they can actually capture that I pee when it becomes available. So that's the it's a great way for people, small inventors to capitalize if they understand it, but they're not going to be super wealthy out of it, because these guys are gonna end up only half their companies or more if they're not sure. Yep, yeah, it's a great way to find a company. It is. I don't think I've heard it described that way before. There you go, M Um. So anything else that you want to share with the audience as we wrap up here, but I don't want to. Boy, you guys are too long. Probably taken up all the time you wanted to advocate to me. Lots of information. I've got hours and now it's like forty hours of course work and and I teach the six steps basically with the program called Um, inventors mastermind, investors master class, sorry,...

...which is available. So do you know how can people get Ahold of you after the show if they want to learn more about the course or connect with you? Well, the biggest issue is probably going to be how do I find out about this funding? So I would say if they went to kickstart dot plus and they downloaded a free evil, that's what's set up for, just to give you a free book on how to do set up that and the history of how cornerstone investing came along and how we captured that. Because, remember, I went from too greater than success right in pitching. So it's amazing the way it works. But we don't ask for a lot of money. We always break it down to two stages and it's far more successful that one. Um. They can look at me and investors master class DOT COM slash free. There's another little free course I keep there so people can necessarily find out a little bit more about how maybe I can help them, maybe I can't, but they can at least get onto me and find me on Linkedin and if they do, they can book a chat with me for free, because that's why I do these days. I give away ten hours of my time, ten lots of forty five minutes every week to the first dame, just so you could. You can't get them more than once, but if you've got a problem, I'll solve your problem for you. No, nothing asked, you just get your problem solved. That way, I find a lot of people come back in the touch tell me everyone else about me and how good it is, and many people come back and say I want to own the information, because I think the secret to successful, I P commercialization, is to own the system. That's what people don't want to show you. They want to on the technology, to know how the knowledge and they want to just make it look like magic, like accounting step. So then you have to keep coming back. I don't given you given them everything, so they can walk away knowing that they own the skill for the next time m fantastic. Well, I agree with you. I could sit here and talk to you for hours and we can just dial into this, but I am want to be respectful of all of our listeners and maybe we'll have you on the show again and we can talk more. Well, see well, thank you very much, appreciate it. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market and I value your time and attention. To get the latest episodes on your mobile device, automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening and I appreciate everyone who shared the show with friends and colleagues. See You on the next episode of Health Innovators.

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