Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode 103 · 1 month ago

How to Connect the Dots Through Storytelling w/ Bettina Hein


Commercialization can be tricky. Try to commercialize across different business spaces and it gets a bit trickier - but it sure isn’t impossible.

Just ask Bettina Hein, our latest guest and “shark” from the Swiss version of Shark Tank (“Höhle der Löwen Schweiz”).

She’s successfully commercialized companies in the automotive and video marketing spaces, and has recently started another venture in the healthcare space - and is successful at doing it all!

If commercialization is proving more difficult than you expected, then you’re going to want to tune in to this episode.

Come hear this multi-market and multi-country success outline some of her winning tips and strategies on how to successfully tell your story and commercialize your solution!

Here are the show highlights:

  • Applying lessons learned outside healthcare in the healthcare setting (6:41)
  • The importance of value proving your product (13:23)
  • Find and utilize the verticals across marketing and sales (20:13)
  • Why you really need to use video (25:12)
  • This is how you open the doorway to conversations (29:16)
  • How to keep your edge while piloting your solution (39:02)

Guest Bio

Bettina Hein is the CEO and Founder of digital health startup juli Health.

A serial software entrepreneur, she has built technology companies in both Europe and the United States including Boston based Pixability, and co-founded SVOX, a Swiss-based speech technology company which was acquired by Nuance Communications.

The recipient of numerous awards and recognitions, Bettina holds two software patents, is the co-author of “Video Marketing for Dummies” and is a “shark” on the Swiss version of Shark Tank called “Höhle der Löwen Schweiz.”

She also likes to “pay it forward” so, if you’d like to reach out to her, you can contact Bettina on her website at, via email at, on LinkedIn at Bettina Hein or you can book some time to speak with her at

I you're listening to health, innovators,a podcast and video show about the leaders influencers and early a doctorswho are shaping the future of health care. I'm your host Doctor Roxey MovieWelcome Back Health Innovators on today's episode, I'm sitting down withBettina Hine, who is the CEO and founder of Julie, welcome to the showBettina. Thank you for having me on Dor Roxy. Itis so good to have you here today. We've got a shark people, a Swish Shark,so start off by telling our audience a little bit about your background and ofcourse, what do I mean by sharp you'll have to explain that and then whatyou've been innovating these days Turk, so I am a lifelong tech on Tropen urJulie, it's my current company. It's a chronic condition care platform, but I've done software companies, myentire career and all of them have been around taking a large data, setsapplying artificial intelligence to those to optimize for a certain outcome. So I've done that originally I'm German,but I've spent eighteen years of my life in the US fifteen in Switzerland, so I'm kind of back and forth across the Atlantic, andmy husband is Swiss. So I am have been for three years now: a judge on theSwiss version of Shark tank. That's terrific and so tell us a little bitabout that. What's that experience like h so in behind the scenes, answer yeah!So it's really interesting. So I never liked watching the US version. Iwatched it, but it always hit way close to home way too close to home. It was like I would be screaming at the TVsaying: No, No, don't give your company away for so little money. Don't do this,no they're, taking advantage of you and so so, and also I found you know thatthis sort of combated thing between the sharks like it's like mm, so I moved back to Switzerland aftertwelve years in the Boston area. I was on a midnight train from Zurich back towhere I live in Saint Gallen, where at least live part of the year, and somebody asked me no Keddy got on the train yeah thatsomebody yeah and I I've learned as anentrepreneur to always say yes at the outset. You know if theiropportunity opens up, for you figure out what it is. Don't first like say:No, no! No! I don't think I can do this say. Yes, you can always then anddecide. This is not for me, so I was like yeah sure I'll talk to them, though I was pretty nervous about it.You know I'm just a regular person, I'm not usually on TV, and I was alsoskeptical a little bit about the format but long the whole. Three weeks later,I had a GIG ON TV and I was on my way tobecoming a reality. TV Show Star in Switzerland, Oh man, that is terrific. So what are two things that maybe you justthat you learned that have influenced your entrepreneurial journey since you'vebeen on the show...

I've sort of seen the other side of thetable. I see you know what others are pitching to you and I see I can of Lucysee through some of the things then they're saying where I'm like you know,that's what I said when I was fun racing. Let me go a little bit more into detail.What I also learned is that you know it's not really that combative.It's obviously edited to look a little bit like that, but it's it's not. Imean between the sharks. We have a really good report and we are like youknow this, this little club now and we see each other. You know this is onlyeight days of shooting per year a whole season. So so you know this is like ahobby. For me, it's not it's not a full time thing. I'm the CEO of Julie, but Itake out a week out of my ear and- and we do this show that's terrific. That'sawesome sounds like a lot of fun what an adventure and how serendipitous thatit just happened to be on the train at the right time. I know right if youtold me like three years ago that I would ever be that yeah yeah, that's a totally random, anoutrageous idea than that. You certainly can't plan.You can't make happen. No, no! No! But again it's it's so muchfun to like see behind the scenes of how these things work, how it TS Studio,works, how you know what what the different roles e are, and you know I'mused to calling the shots. You know in the CO, but I've learned on the show, whatever you do is you know hold stillis one of the things that you have to do hold still and say: Do whatever theproducer says then find you know like you know if they say likemove a little bit like this or you know your face like that and yeah yeah, andthen you know just do as they say. Obviously I don't. We don't act out a script, because Icouldn't do that. I'm not an actor. I say what I want to say, but you know the thing has there's a recipe book tothis: It's a licensed format from Sony, and so there's you know that's it's for me. It's super interestingbecause it's like totally not like my day job. So let's talk about your day job. Soyou have launched three different software technology companies so have they all been in health care? No, actually they have not. My firstcompany was a text to speech software company. So these days that'subiquitous, but I cofounded that company twenty years ago and we thoughtthat the application for text to speech software would be reading out directoryassistance. Numbers M we did not like that was. That was what we werethinking about, but you know it turned out that oursoftware ended up in most luxury cars in the world, even sort ofmid range cars in the world and in all android phones. So I founded thatcompany out of this was Federal Institute of Technology and Switzerland.We raised eight million dollars for it...

...and I sold it for a hundred and twentyfive million to nuance communications, which a lot of people in the healthcare industry know about or the dictation and other things. Sothat was my first one. The second one was, I then moved to Boston and Ifounded a company out of MIT, which was in advertising technology. So what inthat company is called pix ability, I'm still on the board. There and PIXability uses artificial intelligence tooptimize video advertising, specifically on Youtube and connectedTV. So that's so those are my priorcompanies and what I experienced sort of as my my journey within health care, within with my own health, got me tothink about. How could I apply when I've learned in these other disciplinesto health care, because I have to redeem myself? I am the black sheep inthe family. My father's, a physician, my uncle's, a physician. My aunt is mygrandmother was a pharmacists, my mom's, a pharmacist. I have two only two girlcousins. They are pediatric nurse and a physical therapist, so my brotherbecame a banker and I became a tech entrepreneur. We are both yet you knowstill have to work for our salvation and there's. Oh, my goodness. That's sofunny! It's interesting. How often I hear that you know Ha happened to have guests onthe show that are the black sheet of sheep of the family, doing something inbusiness and health care, instead of being a medical doctor, or something like that.So what have you learned from thoseprevious companies that you are applying to Julie and thatcommercialization process that you think are some lessons learned alongthe way that would be valuable to share with our audience to day? Well, maybe I should explain a littlebit. What really does because then I can. I can put that together. So whatJulie does is that we are a chronic condition care platform. We help people manage their chronic conditions whensomebody gets diagnosed with a chronic condition there, often if it's acomplex, chronic condition, they are trying to find their on a quest right,they're trying to find out. How can I manage this? This is what, for example, why I gotinto this I ten years ago my daughter was bornprematurely, and that was such a shock to me that Icouldn't sleep afterwards for a year and a half- and I didn't know what Igoogled, that I went to my doctor and he said well, your breast feeding. Ican't give you anything. Are you stressed at work? I S, I said Yeah, youknow I'm the CEO, the or company, and I have a premature child and he's like Ohyeah. That's it like great, so I started wearing this head band, monitorfor sleep and, and I hacked myself back to health and since then I've you knowI was then retrospectively. I probably had what health care providers havetold me. I had an a typical post part of depression, which doesn't seem like that crazy, butpeople weren't helping me so there you know they're many more people that havethis kind of journey, and I started going on this quantify itself usingdata for to manage your health quest...

...and what we do actually is me bring in fivedifferent types of data. We bring in everything from your smartphoneeverything from wearables and connected devices. Like your watch scale, bloodpressure, cuff et CE. We bring an environmental data like whether airpollution pollen count sunlight our humidity. All of that on a veryhyperlocal level. So you know not the Greater Orlando area, but exactly whereyou are, and then we tie an Ehr data and then we tie that all together with patientreported data. So we have this APP. Anybody can download it. That'slistening! It's in the APP store. You have really great reviews and ratings, socheck us out, and you will see then, that we chat withyou every single day, and we ask you just a few questions right now. We cover asthma, depressionby polar disorder, migraine and chronic pain, and we'regetting lots of requests to expand that mostly to auto imine conditions andthings like Fadawa other Ra things like that. So that's what a e Mercatijourney gone for you in the last year and a half yes, so we're we're only a year and ahalf old and we launched into the abstersion ths ago, but were so that'sand we've had six thousand people download our APP and have on boardedthem and are seeing great retention there we're not selling anything in theAPP store right now. What we're doing is we're proving out our product, and we arealso right now running a clinical trial to validate that who will pay, for it will be a risk faring entity. We are now starting to find pilots within self, insuredemployers, Value Base Care Organizations, acos andpayers themselves. So that's that's where we're going with ourcommercialization and yeah we're off to the races, and that regard me had tobuild this patient facing part first and now we're tuning to be to be partof the business and yeah. We've set up some some interesting things in orderto ramp up pilots more quickly. So I'm curious, you know, for our audience. Isthere anything that you learned in the previous two companies that you'redoing differently here and then also taken into consideration that you knowhealth care commercializing, something in health care, so innovative is reallydifferent than there's some similarities, but there's also a lot ofnuance differences that can create some unusual challenges orobstacles for us to overcome in health care. As you just describe themulticium T, yeah yeah exactly well. What I learned in previouscompanies is obviously the technical side right. I learned that I alsolearned that company culture plays a huge role, no matter what you'recommercializing. If your team isn't really jelling, you have to work onthat. I'm super privileged that you...

...know at the stage of my career. I canreally find great people also in in health care and our team, which isfirst for me as a tech, tech entrepreneur. Fifty percentof our team is female or people of Color Okay. So that's that's really! That'ssome! That's something! That's reallyimportant and then the other part of the commercialization side is in myprevious companies. All of in all of them it was essentially having big entitiesto sell to. There is a B to be playbook and I'm happy to tell you more aboutthat: a B to b sales plate that I am teaching my team, I'm hiring peoplethat know how to do that that you can execute and, for example, me being onyour show, is part of that is part of that play book. But you know thingslike for the last company, I wrote a book video marketing for dummies. Youknow they're different ways to build up credibility and build up relationshipsthat are really important in order to get to that sale, and is that something that you've donein the other companies, or is that something that you're doing in Julie?You know through commercializing Julie, because you're in health care help meunderstand that a little bit, so I did it in the other companies. Ifirst companies sold into the automotive industry, and that was alsomultistep because you have to essentially you have to sell to someone that doesn't specifywhich product you know you're getting there they haveto buy. You have to work with the called O em manufacturer in anautomotive, so let's say a Ford or Mercedes. You have to work with them tofigure out with their pre development departments. You have to figure outwhat they want and help them. You know understand what you're doing and thenthey have to tell their first to your suppliers to rf something that'shopefully like you want, and then you have to sell to them right. So sothat's a something there. With PIXII and video marketing selling intoadvertising, you have to sell to a brand, but also to their agency.So you have these different influence factors and, and so I'm sort of takingthose learnings and applying them to health care. Obviously, with the helpof commercial people that have sold into health care all of their careers,but the the sales mechanisms are not unlike in other industries. As you know,I've learned in the in the last two years I haven't been just you know, thinking about this for yeah, since we started the company andalso you know, I've learned from my family how how these things work, yeahand I'm digging into this, because I think that there are a lot of business practices, commercializationstrategies and tactics that probably haven't been deployed in health carefor a long time, because the way health care ecosystem was constructed is thatyou could skip over all of those best practices and still build a very viableand successful profitable company in health care. That has changed over thelast few years, so you're, starting to see more and more folks whether it's them themselves asthe COF, the company or the talent that...

...they're bringing in that are outside ofhealth care that have this expertise to augment the people that areunderstanding the nuances and intricacies of health care, but alsopaired with. I don't want to just have team members that are a hundred percentexperienced with health care because they were missing a big part of whathas been successful in other verticals, and so what you're describing is kindof this melding of the two, which is which is wonderful yeah I mean there's so many things that that you can apply in a lot of verticals one of them.I don't know if you want any examples for your audience yeah, so so one of them is called in bound marketing, which youcan apply so say, Bill and marketing are are similar. Things right, so youhave to the important is to bring them togetherat the right point, they're not the same, but they have todefinitely work together. So one thing that is called in down marketing is togenerate interest with people so that they come to you. Well, how do you dothat? You create content that people like, like you show like writing a book,one of the things that we did a lot. My last company was take of the datapoints that we produced that we took in we produced reports,and we took the sort of high level summary of those reports to the mediaand said this is something you know for your background information or if youare writing a piece here. We have some someinformation for you here and then we would get quoted in the Wall StreetJournal or The New York Times or ad age, and things like that because they sawwe but brought something valuable to the table yeah and then we use thosereports and took them. You know wrote our news, letters about them, sent them to our clients and said: Okay,you can book a meeting with us to see how this applies to you, things likethat and and then we would track all of that in our marketing automation, asystems and our Crna, and you know, then go over to what's called ABNaccount face marketing we would find out. You know what are the big targetaccounts and who is interacted with us before during in our webinars, and youknow, with on our website, downloaded wit paper studies et Cetera and thenengage them proactively with other marketing things. I could tell you a lot more about salesas well, but I think that this this going together of marketing and salesis, is really key, and you know you have to establish yourselfwith somebody- that's really credible in the industry by showing that and producin proving itwith with data right. That's that's one of the key learnings that I've had inmy career on that they, it's Doctor Roxy, here with aquick break from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves youneed to make to survive and thrive in the new Co vid economy? I want everyhealth innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivit strategy,which is why I created the Co. Vid Proof Your Business Pisoti, the pivotkit is a step by step framework that helps you find your best pivotstrategies. It walks you through six categories. You need to examine for athree hundred and sixty degree view of your business. I call them the sixcritical pivot lenses, as you make your way through this comprehensive kit,you'll be armed with the tools, tips...

...and strategies you need to make sureyou can piv it with speed without missing out on critical details andopportunities, learn more at legacy: Hyphen, Daco, backslid, so Batina. I think that is a perfectexample, because in most other industries, content marketing, a BMIbound, are things that organizations are investing in all of these digitalmarketing activities right, whereas in health care as a whole right and notnecessarily saying this is true for every health care company. That's outthere, but traditionally healthcare companies are reliant on outside salesteams boots on the ground, which can be extremely expensive and trade shows,and you had this mass, I don't want to say exodus, it's the opposite of theexodus with Ovid, with a lot of those traditional channels of selling andmarketing closed up. You had a lot health care brands that were inbusiness for ten twenty years that we're going. You know what I think weneed to start investing in in digital marketing, and it's like oh my gosh,it's two thousand and twenty or two thousand and twenty one. Yes, you do,and so there's you know if you put a thousand companies together atdifferent stages of the growth of the company, you'd be hard pressed to evenfind a company that has a director of marketing or a C Mo. That's part oftheir core team. You will see some very robust sales programs and sales teams,but there's also this missing element of marketing in that commercializationprocess and just relying on sales to develop all the awareness, all theappeal right, just owning that entire funnel from end to in, and so I lovethe example that you just provided, because it really shines a spotlight onthe role that marketing can play and helping toaugment the sales teams. So they don't have to work as hard. They can worksmarter and create that synergy between the two.So those were really perfect examples I'm to share that knowledge. So I want totalk about video marketing because you had a company that was a videomarketing company and this again kind of just goes hand in hand with whatwe're talking about you know. I can't tell you how many clients thatwe have where they are like nobody within our company wants to get onvideo. We want to be able to build somethingfrom nothing from scratch. We want to be able to tell the whole world aboutwhat we have to offer and how awesome it is. But none of us are, you know,comfortable being on camera and I'm like. Well, then you need to hiresomeone that's comfortable to get on camera, or you need to do some type ofcoaching and training that you know. There's the role that video plays inthat commercialization process is something that I don't think should beoverlooked. So you know what do you think? Well, you know that's, obviously what I spend a decade.A line of do in is telling people you've got to use video to, because it's a very engagingemotional medium. You have to tell your story. People want to hear why you're doingthis, they want to hear your back story and I think that's where you have tostart getting people comfortable. I think if people think of it is like, Ihave to be an actor they get there like deers in the head. Like I get you the AD and they did the you know they read off like some sort of text. No, don'thave them to do that right to interview them and say you know, Dr So, and soyou...

I know that you are doing this out ofyour passion. Tell me what brought you to dermatology and then they'll say youknow, whatever you know as a as a child, I had this terrible contact. Dermatitisand you know- and I couldn't have or I had an allergy neck and have a dog- andyou know that really that really brought me to this. For example, right,that's something people want to hear the humans want to connect on a on ahuman basis and want they want to hear from this, and I think what what you have to dothere is is connect with something where people are already comfortablelike. Are they already comfortable showing you their medical device andtalking about it right? Are they like getting? What are these people thatthat want to tell their story? What brings out the sparkle in their eyes?And you know if you have the right videoteam, you can capture those kinds of things and a good thing is these daysright with being on Youtube. It doesn't have to be super polished right. Youknow you, you know this, you. When I started my company, we figuredout my video marketing company fixable. We weresending out what was at that point called flip cameras, phones enoughcameras back then we sent those out and said people film yourself and then whatwe did is we edited that together and put it into something where people werelike wow? I can't believe from what I film myself. You made it into thisright. I think only to have just a little bit of confidence in the magicof what editors and you know, videographers and camera people do they.I will make you good look good, they will they want you to succeed, and Ithink that that's you know hiring someone never brings out like you knowyou can have a voice actor doing stuff and sometimes that's fine right to haveto have a voice over and all of that. But if you want to tell the authenticstory, people want to hear it straight from the Horse's mouth yeah yeah andI'm. I definitely am seeing the the tide turn and we've made a lot ofprogress over the last few years. There's still a long way to go as we'rethinking about the role that video plays, and I love what you said toabout that candid niff, candidness or authenticity, because for the longesttime, even when health care Brians were adopting video, it was still a bunch oftalking heads that were in blue suits and it was just like wow I mean it'sjust so boring. I guess you could say justboring and no personality and none of that authentic story that you justdescribed. So I think that the tick tock videos, the youtube style, videosthis more of like I don't have to have it all put together. I can just behuman and being able to allow that humanity to connect with other humans.I think you know, as you're saying, can be extremely powerful and it can bring you into conversationsthat you might usually not be in. So you know I do a lot of video and whenpeople meet me they like. Oh, I watched the video about you and you know I lovewhat you said there and that's that's immediately a contact point right wherepeople like oh they're, excited to talk to that person that they've alreadyseen in the video- and you know if you know I bet the same thing happens toyou right, they've watched watched you before and then like. Oh, my God, I getto be you in person, you know it's, it's just you feel people tell me theyfeel like they already know me. Yeah...

...yeah definitely which went in Yeah, andthat's that's a D and that's so cool right that you can do that with thismedium. Also putting back my analytical hat yeah, you can also look at whowatches the these videos. What are you can tag them on Youtube with differentkey words? You can optimize them. You can put the advertising in front ofspecific people right, you can say okay, I want people that are searching forthis and you can do that absolutely for B top applications right people thinkoh well, that's just Kelloggs or it ARD advertising. No! This really works aswell for people that are looking for chronic conditional care platforms,because what is your buyers journey? You have to look at that and how didthey inform themselves? Well, news flash. As you said, it's no longer ajust at trade shows yeah that is actually kind of the last stage rightthat they may, if their trade show and they've seen all your stuff that theymay talk to you or they see you there and then later do all the research. Butit's just one of probably it doesn't touch points thatyou need with your audience, to connect so figure out, for example, at Julie.What we're doing on the consumer sites were even powering our productdevelopment by figuring out, which search terms E. DO people find usthrough what is the most successful thing I obviously have given mybackground, I have a SMO on board who ran her own advertising agency and soldit to become part of Julie. So that's how she does product development. She'salso are our head of product, and you can really understand things more. If you have thisinvolvement, because what you do, is you get feedback? We get feedback on a daily basis fromour users. We get people writing us in, and I know that doesn't work for everyproduct out there, but for digital health companies. It's definitelysomething that you need to know. If you want adherents, you know to anengagement with your product. Have the lock your users every single day? Thereis no alternative. I am a huge proponent. I call it co creation. Ihave a CO creation framework that I developed to do just that and to methat fits into the culture piece that you talkedabout, where you know it'snot a traditional marketing research project, where you pull a focus grouptogether and you this one one moment in time where you're like hey guys. Whatare you guys? What do you think about this and you're got gathering thatfeedback, but it is absolutely what you just described. It's part of the DNA ofyour organization, you're continuously staying connected to the customer, thiscommunication stream- that is just continuous for the life of the company.It doesn't stop and unless you close the company down, because you knowyou're always wanting to get feedback, even if it's what you're going toinnovate. Next, every step of the way, so I want to touch on something elsehere before we start to wrap up. I had this is a really important topic inhealth care. Right piloting is something that most health careorganizations have to have a piloting strategy in their commercializationprocess and making sure that there's...

...their solutions are safe and thatthere's some efficacy behind the solutions that they're putting out intothe market place, and so when you- and I were talking before you had mentionedabout you know, how do we do more pilots? How do we do more pilotsquickly? So just describe some of the challenges that are inherent to ourcurrent ecosystem right now, when it comes to piloting that you guys haveencountered well, it all takes quite a long timeright. You have to get by and from a lot of people, and you also a seat right now, there's aproliferation of solutions out there. So you have to cut through the noise which we're doing with, for example,our clinical trial strategy. Where we said okay, we can we've built in intoour software. This very flexible clinical trial forming work, and that's you know how we can show Ethicasee, and we have all these users ourselves right, so we're not justdependent on the piloting strategy with with sites that are external, andluckily one of our co founders is a professor at University College. London,and he, you know, was able to with our wholeteam, bring a study in a study design through their IRB within five months.So we have actually only a few months after we launched our application.Three months afterwards, you were able to launch our first clinical trial, with actual with depression and asthma,being two arms of our study. What we're doing next with that is that we'recreating something called a pilot in the box and what that means is. We can very quickly scale up anadditional R ct very quickly, a trial like withina day we can spend that up in our software, because we created this superflexible framework. Where you can say, I want to turn on these five featuresin the sort of active ingredient type of the trial. We want to turn those offn. The other, so that's something where we can adapt to the entity that wantsto trial. We can also do new conditions very quickly. We have the template ofour registered study of the study design, which can show you know howit's, for example, hit a compliant to PR compliant all of those data thingsand that kind of short cut the process of getting something started becausehere's our recipe, you know, will help you get that through your committeesthrough your process relatively quickly yeah. So so is it the so what you weredescribing there are those some of the strategies tokind of expand the pilot program within an existing pilot partner. Or are you also lookingto be able to get more pilots outside of that, where you might have seventeendifferent pilot partner companies and a couple of different ones running ineach one of those organizations? Yeah, it's so to do it, and obviously you canexpand that quickly. But no, the idea is to do that with multiple withmultiple entities and just you know, having them be able to customize veryeasily what they want to do. But you know we have the template. Wecan ramp the stuff very quickly and employ it. You know it's,...'s very easy. It's online, your trial population can download this there'sreally no delay to doing that. So I talk a lot about piloting and some ofthose challenges that you've described that you know almost every innovator isencountering because it's just inherent to the healthcare ecosystem and there'sthere's a number of different that things that can be deployed to kind ofhelp. With that a lot of times when I'm hearing peopledescribe their pilot scenario, it's that someone said Yes to the pilot, sothey're just and I'm not saying this, is you by any means, I'm just talkingto the audience in general of you know, I got really excited that someone saidyes, because I need to get these pilots started and and so just kind ofacquiescing, a lot of that control or negotiation in the pilot agreement upfront of what is the duration of the pilot? who going to be the champions ofthe pilot? We are going to be the milestones and the Kpis across thatkind of fast track that, because the I hear this all the time is these pilotsthat just languish that the champion left or priorities changed within theorganization, and you know so now. I've got six pilots running, which should bea phenomenal thing for our company. But but you know they're two o three yearsand I still don't have access to the data. I don't really know exactly howthis is performing. I don't know if they think that so far we're two yearsin- and this is successful- we just need six more months left or, if youknow, there's just so much ambiguity amongst that pilot program and so manyconfounding factors and moving pieces that it can actually seem as thoughthat it is the milestone to success, and it can be the mile stone to failurewhere companies are going under because they just have exhausted all of theirresources and have no revenue coming in, but they got six pilots going death by pilot right. Yes, yes, Jeff bypilot, I call it pilot purgatory. That is a real real thing, and sothere's this you know how many pilots should you have. I talked to someonenot too long ago. We had seventeen pilots going on and I want to say thatthey may be have like twenty five people within their company and Ithought how in the world are you going to have any of those pilots becomesuccessful if you've got twenty five people within your company, butseventeen pilots going on who's WHO's at the helm there makingsure that that's successful and he was like exactly I'm going crazy trying to manage it all. There's a bat strategy that I've heardhow this is from my my mentor, an advisor Christen, Bel Dez who's, theCEO B. Well, she smart woman that she is never did anyunpaid pilots. She never even piloted. She told her customers like look. Ifyou want to do this. Let's do a commercial like agreement, will do itwith favorable terms for you, but we're doing this in a in a paid way,so she had the guts to do that. I completely agree, especially becauseyou have so many innovation hubs that are just like I mean they're they're,taking all applicants, so you know the end. The pilot partner could have ahundred pilots going on. There's no stake in the game. There's! No! I noskin in the game. There's no, there's! No, no responsibility on their part to makesure that your sick pilot is a successful they're, just turning pilotsin and out right, just getting more and...

...more testing these different ideas. SoI yes, absolutely I say you know, come up with a strategy that is pilot to profit and negotiating thosesales up front. Having some type of payment mechanism in place. It could becompletely up front where it's like you described where it's a full commercialagreement or it could be something to where there are certain milestones thatare met and there's some kind of transaction that takes place or if x, Yand Z happen. At the end of this pilot, then there's some kind of commercialtransaction on the back end of it, but negotiating that up front rather thanwaiting down down the road. So I think Batina I really you'rebrilliant you've had so much success under your belt. We could talk forhours and hours about Julie and the amazing things that you guys are doingand all of the wisdom that you could share with our audience, but we haverun out of time. So is there anything else that you would want to share withour listeners before we wrap up sure easy way to contact me is to go toJulie, Co, our website or email me at b. The first letter ofmy first name be actually dot so also one thing that I always offer up toeverybody that's listening to these shows is that I have a weekly entreprit office hour,where I just offer up to half our slots to anybody. That is doing somethingentrepreneur in the space and talk to them and you know try to solve problemstogether. I've been doing this for twenty years, so there are a lot ofthings that I've I've learned, and this is my community service of paying itforward. So people can sign up at calentem Batina line and I'm excited tomeet some of the members of your audience and if any respair entities are listening to thiscontact me for a pilot with Julie in Q Hilot to profitwith Julie. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and Ivalue your time and attention to get the latest episodes on your mobiledevice automatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP likeapple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening, and Iappreciate every one who shared the show with friends and colleagues, seeyou on the next episode of Health, innovators, a.

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