Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 11 months ago

Behind the scenes with the world’s 1st true virtual global digital health accelerator with Michael Bidu


If you’re an innovator in the digital healthcare space who is having trouble commercializing your solution, this might be the episode you’ve been waiting for.

This week, Michael Bidu, a digital health innovation Renaissance man, is giving our listeners the nuts and bolts on accelerators and incubators.

If you were ever curious about how the accelerator or incubator side of innovation works, you don’t want to miss it!

Want to launch an innovation globally? Unsure of the current state of the market? Wondering if you have a disruptive or sustainable innovation? Michael touches on it. 

If you’re an entrepreneur in the digital health space, come grab some insights into what an accelerator looks for when considering an innovation!

Here are the show highlights:

  • Are you an entrepreneur in training, or an Olympic level player? (9:15)
  • Digital health innovation: Are you really ready for the massive competition? (12:55)
  • What you should know if you’re thinking of launching a product outside the US (15:53)
  • How accelerators and the incubators evolved during the pandemic (19:30)
  • What’s the difference between disruptive and sustainable innovation? (25:57)
  • This might be keeping you from successfully commercializing your innovation (37:08)

Guest Bio

Michael Bidu is Co-Founder and CEO of INTERFACE Health Society, a not-for-profit virtual digital health technology accelerator. 

He’s also Co-Founder and CEO of MYND Therapeutics Inc., a digital health company that is developing socially engaging digital therapies.

Michael is a proven digital health Renaissance man, having expertise in the entire spectrum of innovation - from accelerators and financing to marketing, development, and advertising.

Having earned his MBA from the Academia de Studii Economice in Bucharest, Michael continued his education at the British Columbia Institute of Technology in Vancouver, B.C.

If you’d like to reach out to Michael you can find him on LinkedIn at Michael Mircea Bidu, on his company’s website at, or on social media using @InterfaceHealth.

Welcome to Coiq, where you learn howhealth innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy,founder of legacy, DNA and International Beth selling author ofhow health innovators maximize market success through canded conversationswith health, innovators earlier doctors and influencers you'll learn how tobring your innovation, some idea to start up to market domination, and now,let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq, welcome back to the show of coyqlisteners. On today's episode I have the founder and CEO of innerface healthwith me, Michael Thedo. Welcome to the show, Michael thanks for my froxy. Much appreciate it.So, let's just kick off the conversation by telling our listeners alittle bit about your background and what you do so yeah my name is Minchael, be do asyou just said a minute ago I am the founder, Ancoof intervace healthsociety, which is a not for profit organization based in Vancuver Canada. The accelebated that I'm running isfocused on a hunred percent of digital health technologies and our model, itsa vitual model, where you know startups and SMEs can join any time. We don'thave a cohord model on like many traditional models out there, and so westarted creating this kind of model into thousand and fifteen. In a way, wemaybe figured that one day the whole world will go virtual as a marke and sowe're quite quite early adopters. That way, and we have been very successful,we created a global network of innovators. We started with fifty members, or so weended up with about five thousand three hundred individual members about twelvehundred CCOMPANIES, big and small, of which about seven hundred and fiftystartups and SMEs from about twenty different countries or modwithspartnership with digital help accelerators around theworld. So we have relationships with about thirty of them from Canada, US UK,Germany, Romania, Chile, Brazil, Israel, South Korea, Australia, an New Zealandand so on, and so forththat's kind of what the organization that we set up,and we do a couple of things that intervace heulth one is. We have a thes dull health inovators network,similar to a link pain. If you like, where we connect startups andenterpreneurse with the resources they need, could be, services could betalent, could be money could be simply opportunities to ideas or, or you know,sharing ideas about what's new and what's coming in in the market, that's one thing. Secondly, we did aglobal competition to find the best innovators in the World Batd, that'show we ended up working with digital health accelerators from around theworld, and that model is almost like considered the Olympics of digital,healthy novation. If you lave yeah, that gave us an very good view of abouttwo hundred of the best innovators in the world. We've done that in twothousand and fifteen sixteen and Seventeen- and you know the top ten endup at our conference. We have an annual conference called interface summit inVancouver, and so the top ten get invited where we have them here for twodays meeting with H, innovators with helthcare systems,buyers with the kind of he demand site of the innovation ECOSOM and those arecompanies from all over the world. It's...'s a tremendous event and then sothat's the network. The global competition, the Animal Summitand, inaddition to that we created a showcase, called intervace showcase, wherestartups can actually show some of their new products and services, and you can look at intervase Shociscom.So that's about the company! I'm running my background is AAnentrepreneur. I started about nine companies as a matter of fact right now, I'm in the middle of launching my newstarup called mind thrapedics, so we're focusing on digital trapolitics,particularly in the obesit, an weigt management for women, and so that alsogives me K. I love doing startups and, and there you go, my nine startupsstart up: Itinen, yes, Glutton for punishment, 's,exactly yeah, so yeah. So I'm a mentor advisor Indepreneur, you know and speaker and producer ofevent, so all of the avoves ar but Yoa ye H, yeah, I'm an entrepreer I like todo things and I like to help startups to go to market there o go so so.Obviously, there's hundreds of accelerators and incubators innovationlabs these days, maybe not nearly as much in two thousand and fifteen. Howdo you think the industry is changed? Well, that's a that's! A very goodquestion, Roxy and actually in two thousand and nine, when I met Dr EricTopold, I'm going to give you a bit of a background, so we see bit hove ahistory and evolution of accelerators in two thousand and nine. In April Imet DTOR Eric Tople at a conference around widerless technologies andTelecommunications Ctia in Las Vegas, and that was the very first time when Iheard a doctor. You know talking about you know the Super Convergenc oftechnology and he was talking about how wieless Technologieis wilase censors.You know Netforse by skype. You know he was talking about patient and networks,even video games for patients yeah yeah. So I was looking at him and it's like wow. Thisis amazing and when I heard the numbers you know, because you think thetelecommunications and whilthesse industries are the largest induistreinthe world, because it's your industry, yeah and when we heard that you know the Helca industry dwarfs really allthe other industries in the world is kind of an eight eight point: Fivethrillion dollar industry around the wold United States alone. It's aboutthree point: Five thrillion, Canada, it's about three hundred and fiftybillion, or so so when I heard that I'm like wow. This is the next thing thatwe should be doing in Canada. That was two thousand and Niht in two thousandand eleven we got a grant from the Canadian government and I startedlooking at accelerators around the world at the time in Canada, US Europe and Israel, and at a time you know we had knowledge of Text Stars and Whiecombinators of the world. But all these accelerators were focused on webtechnologies, and so the poter was hey. Let's go to market fast in three months.You're done you go through our accelerator. We get two percent or sixpercent of your company or ten percent whatever number, and then you get some knowledge about how to go to market.You put your website up eventually do a mobile, AP and off you go yeah, yeayeah, so that man yeah b like magic so and I looked at what's going on inthe world- and I started talking with people from helcasystems and hospitalsand physicians and- and I I realized I even here in Vancouver- I visited ahospital at the time and I remember they were having in the hospital theyere using Netscape as a web browser that this is like N, oethousand, ninehundred and ninety six web browser and...

...for me coming from wirelesstechnologies and digital media, it was a trip back in time like I went almostlike twenty or twenty five years back in time. Yeah Yeah Yeah and I realizedway a minute. This industry is one of the lost two dinosaurs of the world. Onbeing you know, education and the other one hell care. These guts have notchanged, for I don't know quite a bit like twenty five fifty years hundred years, maybe- and so it's likewow- we have a massive problem here. You know from an acceleration point ofview because Yo know like any dinosaurs: These guys are moving extremely slow,and so how do we move this guys so yeah that that I came back and I said: Well:listen creating an accelerator that is actually based on a model thatleverages web technologies or even mobit technologies. It's not the right,worll yeah, the right model. It seems to be an accelerator where you spendtwelve months, maybe eighteen months, maybe twenty four months yeah withcompanies who understand you know how the Hella System Works. Understand.Regulation understand. You know, efficacy safety. I mean there's a manymany many things that we need to understand before you actually can. Youknow, come up with a company that issustainable. That has a model that the healtcar industry will adopt, and so sothat was you know two thousand and eleven, and then we continued for aboutfour years with a bit of a traditional model with companies in our COHORD, butin two thousand and and fifteen week pivoted, and we said okay now it's timeto actually do a vitual Moel and that's kind of how how we did it as a youthink about virtual and what made you think about virtual and global back intwo thousand and fifteen I mean it seems par for the course right now,puting, two thousand and fifteen. You know I'm sure you had some folks thatasked you that question as well. Why Virtual? Why Global? Well, it's funnyo're asking that question like one of my very good friends is John Nosta.Yeah out of New York is the number one digital helth influencer in NorthAmerica and one of the best minds we have in addiginal health in the world,and so when I explaind to John whatwe're trying to do this is early. Actually it's late, twothousand and fourteen when we came up with the idea and John said well,Michael, you know what you are actually the first truly virtual disital helttechnology accelerator in the world, and when you hear that from someone whowas obviously in the know, yeah that encouraged me and encourage us toactually created the reason we created the virtual accelerator was simplycompetition, because if you remember, in kind of from two thousand and twelvethirteen fourteen we started seeing you know an a huge increase in the number ofaccelerators Portin in the United States yeah. Suddenly every state hadone two three four five, you know accelerators and they were eitherprivate accelerators the university based accelerators. They were you know:Hospital based, eccelerators ther were government supported, exserevators likein New York and other places, and I'm like wait. A minute is now suddenlyfrom ten accelerators in the United States within three years, we've seenprobably a hundred two, a hundred and twenty I'm like okay. This is massivecompetition. There's no way for us to play that game. So what is the game wewant to play? Even in no that we had about ten ancelerators at the time, Ibelieve Israel had injest in Talabid. They had.I don't know five accelerators Yeah City right. So when I thought aboutthat, I'm like okay, how do we play this game and the way we decided toplay the game? We said: Well, listen,...

...let's look at sports and let's look atthe Olympics yeah. So what we want to play. The kind of game we want to playis really LEDSR. You know not spend our time and energyin training and drepineurs. You know with the basics, with a one or one ofhow you start a company, there's Apret Pealof, accelerators out thereuniversity, based in particular, who are that's their role and that's fine,but I thought our roll, because we've been in business for a while, likelet's actually focus on helping accelerators or I'm sorry. Tho Start upand enteprees go to the next stage, yeah. So let all these guys focus onyou know early stage and training, but what we want to do is we want to playwith athletes that are kind of Olympic Olympics, ready and and those are themost talented intripreners in the world, and then we are totally agnostic. Wedon't care. What country are you from? We don't care. What kind of technologyyou use yeah you care is, if you're a true disruptor yeah and then that'skind of how we invisiot the mitual model and and that's basically, why wedid it. It was really we looked at the competition and said: Well, we can'compete with, I don't know rock held, for example, out of you know SanFrancisco an Boston or we cannot compete with matters in Chicago orHeltbox who had a bunch of offices. So itwas like it, was really adiffeentiation for us, that's what so. So, how has? How has it been? Youknow kind of describe what it's like to create, that global ecosystem. Whereyou know we have different payment infrastructures and different. You knowdifferent regulatory and reimbursement guidelines, different payment models.You know how does that fit into this global ecosystem? Well, you know the reality is that Heltcare is extremely complicated andcompents as you just describe. It doesn't matter the country yeah I meanin Canada, for example, we have healtcases of provincial matter. Wehave sort of thirteen healther systems yeah, and on top of that we have afederal right in the United States. Of course you have all the states who allhave very different formulas and ways of dealing with providers and and soonand so forth, so very complicated in each country. Germany has a differentsystem. Germany, for example, is one of the most consumer friendly systemse in the world, despite the factthat you think Germans are very kind of stuck in stubborn in a certain way:Yeah N RIS codverse they go. You Know Limes Ama, Aber zicar is a saying inGerman is which means slowly but surely yeah fand. So Germany,as a matter of fact, is one of the best countries in the world for for digitalhealth, and we see this in t e recent changes in Germany, but I think tha thewhat we offered that intervace held was exactly this kind of dialogue andunderstanding of how Canada is different than us. US IS DIFFERENT THANUK. I don't know Israel is different than any other country in the world.China is different. Australia is different, so that's kind of again apart of our differenciation because we had entrepreneurs who you know wantedto try other systems in the WORL. Not You know, generally speaking, Canadians,you know, nine out of ten startups are trying to go and sell to the US right.The largest pelke system is proximityis language. We kind of understand- and weunderstand it is you know, obviously, profit driven and all that's verydifferent from a public helcar system that we have in Canada fi right, but Ithink you know that was our wole to actually try to understand thedifferences between and try to guide various centrepreneurs. Whether let'ssay you are maybe even from Mexico and wanted to do business in Canada. Well,how do you do that, or maybe Youre Com...

...from Italy or Netherlands? How do youdo business in the United States and our advice was always like? Maybeyou're not ready for how tough the competition is in Te wet? Maybe you candeal with us a little bit for a year or two in Canada. We can, you know, getyou ready and then throw you into. You know the massive industry in the United States and thathe tough competition that exists there, El one of the things that I think is sosurprising that I've spoken to you know hundreds and hundreds of innovatorsover the last few years of you know producing this show and I've beensurprised at how many have really like been birthed in the US and reallystruggled with all of the bureaucracy that we've had. You know prior to Covidin a lot of ways and had just their arms tied and just really struggled andended up having more success in Germany and more success in some of the Asiancountries, and so you know it's kind of like you're talking about some of theseinstances where they've been outside of the US coming in, and this are storieswhere they're like we can't have success here, but we can outside, andsome of them has said that you know they had success in Germany and Asiafor two three years and then all of a sudden was able to open the door alittle bit more in the US, no question yeah so and there were, you know mostlikely very smart inteprines because they figured hey we're wasting so muchtime here. Not Wasting is probably not the right. Word. Yeah you're spendingan enormous amount of time to try to deal with the the status quo anddiscruptit right and so I'll. Give you an example like Babylon Helt, which isone of the most successful companies in teller, health and artificial intelligence out of Londonyeah. They came to Vancouver, maybe four five years ago and I learned thatthey actually tried some of their very first technologies in Africa, yeah andso in Ruanda. I believe I'm not hundred Percentsur, but I think it was Wonda,and so they were very successful there they learned and then they tried othermarkets. Eventually they came to Canada and they made a proposition to one of O,or you know the largest health it company, which is happens to be also aTellco, tell us health and they were successful yeah. So there's nothing wrong in trying to besuccessful in Vietnam or ONA or Germany or other places. New Zealand or youknow Australia and then come back and thatactually it's a good lesson for us, entripreners, Canadian inteprenerceanybod. In the end I mean we had another company here in Vancouver whohad a very interesting solution for skin cancer yeah, and we don't havemuch skin cancer in Canada compared to Australia, for example, yeah yea. Ofcourse they went to Australia and that's where they found funding andthat's where they found. You know the demand for for the what they actuallycad and then they came back to Canada and the now they're trying to implementtheir solution in Canada so yeah. Sometimes it works. That way. You just have to be smart to do that. Yeah, Aus in the office or Barkin. Theteam members are backing Holon there you go anything can happen onthis. Show, Michael Anything can happen. Somebody had a very good question islike it's do. Do we work from home or do welive at work right right right? So I hope it. It was not my commentsabout all these countries that you know Wudo barkings like oh or maybe it was asign of agreement right right, right, yeah. Well, I don't have a doggy doorhere, and so, if you don't let them out, they will show you whose boss- and soyou don't I', learn the hard way you just open the door and less him out.

Okay, Tamake, formal panticity. There youright right exactly so. You know I want to ask you know as we're talking aboutlike the current state at the end of two thousand and twenty. You know how how has the accelerators and incubatorskind of evolving during this pandemic? What are some of the silver liningsthat are that are happening? That's obviously, you know that's kind ofhelping create a maybe more opportunity, or maybe evenin some instances, some greater challenges and then kind of what do weexpect next for going into Wo Thousand and twenty one yeah okay, so you packedabout three four questions: There I'll try to answer them: Yeah Heel theway! Well, I think you know again I'v Beinin the this industry in this space for at least a decade- and you know tryingto be as global as possible with a view. I think the opportunity is absolutelytremendous. I had anoter very good friend of mine, Luciaangeliam from theNetherlands and he at our conference. We had an annual conference just abouttwo weeks ago, and he had this saying he said basically that this tol heldwas pregnant for the last nine years, or so. I love that and I ere ready togive birth right, and so that is the phenomenal analogy it Isand. So Cominhas just created that opportunity, yeah and its almost like a cisarian right islike it has to happen, and it did happen and so the opportunity it'stremendous. I've seen a recent report by rock held apparently there's aboutyou know close to fifty billion dollars that were invested in startups in theUnited States alone. Yeahand so and that's just investment in startups. Youknow obviously, there's lots of investments by the googles of the world,the Amazons of the world that microsofsor are the apples of the world,the fachfoof of the world in butual reality, for example, yeah. So I think you know the the innovation economy yeah. The disruptorsare working very far to change things for the better to you know, take downin a way th the wall that was created by the status quo, the status scolisworking still very hard to maintain. You know this etus go and that's theirjob. Our job is to you know, go in thisrop, create new opportunities, newjobs, new wealth, yeah new opportunity for everybody create better access cancreate. You know, reduce the cost. You know I mean Justin Ds, you know probably about a trillion dollars, justa waste or obscene profits right, and so, if we can actually solve thatproblem in US alone, and that actually goes through many other systems aroundthe world wer. You know that twenty thirty percent is just fat yeah. We cando things way faster way, better way, smarter using digital help. You know the digital health technologyaccelerators have come and gone right. I've seen already two or three, maybefour. You know waves of digital health technology accelerators were one of thelast ones of to say, because we figured out a different model yeah, but I thinkyou know digital help. Th Technology Etceterat is like any business, have alimited lifespan and more so, if you are doing your job, you should probablybe in business, for you know five seven years and then get out of it yeah.Unless you, you know, maintain or figure out a way to be Irelevant, YeahSoi would say you know, let's just say that in the world right now, there'stwo hundred, maybe three hundred accelerators in our space in digitalhell. Well, the eighty twenty rule...

...applies yeah, so twenty percent of themare probably still doing a very good job, and twenty percent of the twentypercent are doing a phenomenal job yeah. So thoes thethose are the I guess.What's going on in the market, we've seen a few companies who you know aregone. They don't exist anymore for all the right reasons, but we also see allthese newcomers at you know whether they're sponsored by Farma or created that university level or by acity or by a state like in New York or other places, and I would say that oneof the things that I've noticed is that they are hiring the wrong people to runthose accelerators, and that's probably one of the reasons that within threeyears five years, they fail, yeah, meaning that you know even in London, I've seen accelerate anaccelerator very large, I'm not going to name it yeah, but they were just doing. You knowoptimization of an existing healthcare system yeah which, in itself it's notit's sustainable innovation is not disruptive Innovation Fin, let's deInnovation for our own sake, yeah. Well, that's not quite what you know: ClayChristenson defined as disruptive innovation, and so I think the trueaccelerators who are who have a purpose and who actually are driven to createthat change. You know in a positive way empower the patients to you know be in charge of their ownhealth, which is the democratization of Helt Care, accelerators fo understandhow to digitize medicine yeah, to make it more effective to make it to focuson preventative medicine, precise medicine and personalized medicine.Those who understand that they'll figure out the value chain and how tocreate money yeah an opportunity. So for me I mean I'm the eternalEntropreneuro, I'm always optimistic yeah, like guys eahi have' been of a distorted. Youknow sense of reality. Maybe, but it's like that's what needs to happen like.We will continue to try to do better and change things for e better for thepatients, for the positions for nurses, for everybody involved on the healtcareside and on the consumer side, which is another for Treadin opportunity. Again,there's lots of opportunities for dichgold help as well. Hey! It's Dr Roxy. Here with a quickbreak from the conversation. Are you trying to figure out what moves youneed to make to survive and bribe in the new covid economy? I want everyhealth innovator to find their most viable and profitable pivid Strategye,which is why I created the covid proof. Your Business Pibicit, the Pipot Kit,is a Stef by step framework that helps you find your best pivot strategy. Itwalks you through six categories. You need to examine for three hundred andsixty degree view of your business. I call them the six critical Titot winses,as you make your way through this comprehensive kit, you'll be armed withthe tools, tints and strategies you need to make sure you can piv it withspeed without missing out on critical details and opportunities, learn moreat legacy: Hyphen dnacom, Bakla Kit, so Michael you kind of touched on acouple of buz hards that you know some of our listeners and viewers mightunderstand the distinction. Hopefully a lot of them do, but for those thatdon't what is the difference between a disruptive innovation and a sustainableinnovation? And why does that even matter in the commercialization process?Very good question? So I wrote a few articles and I explainthis all the time because you have, let's say a healthcar system. You havethe Ino Headof it or the chief...

...information officer of a large hospitallike and and usually what they do, because it's an existing large businessyeah. Let's say they run A. I don't know a hundred million two hundredmilte a billion or a two billion dollar. You know helcar system, it's an entitythat exists and has certain rules has have a certain business model that youknow doesn't like to be interrupted or changed. However, your job, when yourun that system is to optimize it the best possible way. So I've seen a lotof folks from inside the Helka System, who think they're doing disruptiveinnovation when in fact, it's sustainable innovation, yeah yeah,which don't don't create new jobs yeah they just make things better but to acertain degree the definition of disruptive innovation,as in Clay Christenson's definition, is the creation of new jobs, the creationof new business models, the creation of wealth. That's why you have AIRBNB.That's why you have you know Uber. Those are massive disruptors who gointo an industry that you know, let's say the hotel industry that performdthat way. For the last tin or fifty years and suddenly, R BNB comes in witha model, while here's a new way of doing things so and they change thewhole global industry yeah. So that's what software does it comes in and itcreates that kind of opportunity, so thate's the difference betweensustainable innovation and disruptive inoration. I would rather go fordisruptive innovation and if I am running an accelerator, that those arethe kind of technologies I'm looking for, that will create real change. NotYou know, incremental changing, hey we're better,a five percent this year yeah or we created a little bit better profit thisyear with our hospital. On the contrary, I think, if you 're a true desseraptor,you need to come up with solutions that will truly disrupt tyeah existingmodels, so so kind of just you know, following that. One of the things thatI think is so interesting is that, as you've got those larger institutionsright that have been in business for a long time and they're doing more of theincremental innovation internally, it's they are really prone to kind of get cut off. Guard like ARVandbor, like Oober, with other entities that are disrupting the industry, asopposed to disrupting it themselves, because they're thinking about the samecustomer group that they currently have and a lot of times they get kind ofcaught in this loop of meeting those needs, as opposed to the you know howClayton would describe at the bottom of the market that has just completelydifferent needs than you know, those those incomvents, and so we see thathappen. You know quite often with them getting disrupted, and I think whatyou're describing here. I really there's a lot of strategicconsiderations because, like you said you know, income having an incrementalor sustainable innovation isn't a bad thing. It's just a completely differentbusiness and and knowing the strategic, the strategies and the tactics that aredifferent for each one, I think becomes really really important as well. Well,you know Christina far who's a reporter for a CNBC she's covering heltcare andtechnology. I remember, maybe, a month ago or two months ago, she asked one ofthe folks were running a hospital in the US and it's like how is it goinglike? What's going on like what's happening its like? Well we're in deeptrouble because we're losing like two million dollars and she's like a monthis like no a day yeah. So so that tells you, you know how the GPS, you knowgeneral practitioners, family doctors around the world, not just in the US,but in Caledan, her Partoro weere, absolutely completely caught cut offgard with with covid like we have been...

...talking about telle health and mutualmedicine for at least two decades, yeah and- and you know, all the systems, forwhatever reason they didn't adopt it. Well guess what Cavit happened and theyhad to change almost overnight yeah, but it was all an arcificial. You knowbarrier because when they had to perform in a certain way and they hadto create reimbursement codes, almost overnight were work. It took you threeyears to create you know Inburson Code, they had to do it, and so now we seethis massive behavior change on the consumer side. The consumers know thatthey can visit their. You know family, doctor or specialist. Just like you andI right now, yeah, you don't have to go to the you know the office or thecleianing, or you know whatever enterprise your running. So I thinkthat is a massive change and we have seen a massive change in physicians,perception and physicians. Use of new technologies lives. Doctors, wile tollme like Michael. I never believe that this actually can work like emailcannot work doesn't work, it works AALL, this otherindustries, just not healthcare, no industry doesn't work well es whatthey came back and said. You know what Michael it does work yeas well, Wywhyit took US ten years to convince you and we couldn't and now call it managedto convince you. So there you go so now. That's what I mean rocky by it's atremendous opportunity for startops and intepreneurs. Why? Because, by the timethis covet will be over, the whole world has spent- probably ten, maybetwelve- maybe fifteen trillion dollars, that's by the end of two thosand andtwenty one yeah with all the efforts around the world for whatever Ison, andwhat that means is that the whole world governments in particular, but also theprivate sector, has invested all this money to change our behavior. We areall forced, more or less to stay at home like work from home. Well, imaginethe opportunities for Disto help, which is what we wanted to do from the verybeginning, which was you know, to bring solutions to you right run at home inyour car, wherever you are, that's what we try to do. What here we are, we didn't have to pay for that. Youknow yeah, so so I imagine over the course of your career. You know kind ofthinking either you know recently or just I, the last few years share acouple of stories with our listeners that you know. Maybe you came Acoss, eitheran innovator or technology solution where you just kind of looked at it.You looked at the team and you were like thet and it just really blew yourmind and they ended up being wildly successful ecause. You hear storieslike that all the time yeah, so I would say that one of thestories that blew my mind was actually our winner in two thousand andSevenn, two thousand and fifteen. It's a company called proxile out of Bostonyeah and when we looked at them initially wesaid you know they were just using SMS yeah. You know Short Messaging Sysen rightfor for for mobile phones that even for smartphones yeah for Featureo Yeah.This is a company out of Boston who said well, listen. We want to savepeople's lives because at a time people in Africa were accessing. Youknow fake drugs that would kill them. Hmi think the numbers were somethingaround: Seventy thousand seven seven hundred husand. I believeit was the number and these guys came in and said. Well, listen. We going to use SMS, we're not going touse complicated technologies in Africa,...

...but people use feature phones andtheyre the to used SMS and we Goinna you know, help them. Actually, you knowsave lives and we going to held the farmer industry by helping them. Youknow, sell the right drugs to the right people. No, basically imagine this.Where you go to a pharmacy, you know in Africa and then you buy adrug whell, you can scratch it yeah and there's an SMS code. You send that code.You know Wi using your phone to a database and that atabase tells youright away whether that drug is the real one or a fake one. Yeah simple solution it and it again it helps the patient.It helps the physicians, it helps the system. It helps also the brands, thefarmer to me that was one of the simplest, most beautiful solutions outthere, which taught me a lesson that you don't have to have complicatedsolutions. Thee's Al, you know, think very simple. Think about what you'retrying to SOLV. You know again play Chrisis and said you know, what's thejob that you hire that apt to do for you right or that service or thatproduct yeah so yeah. I have stories like that. I've seen stories now invirtual reality. For example, you know we've seen twenty thirty years ofresearch and virtual reality, whether it's Stamford or you know, mgill inCanada or Simon Fraser or Barcelona, tremendous application in applicationsin PTSD, in mental health, depression, anxiety in obesity and all these areas.So now I'm seeing it kind of a new generation of you know therapies thatare using artificial intelligence. I realityaugmented reality to o. You know help patience and consumers find solutions.So yeah, I think you know the world is super exciting. The technology isgrowing exponentially yeah. We can't keep up really the people, I guess,generally speaking and HEALCA system, don't understand how fast things aremoving yeah. Hopefully this covid has been a wakeupcall for everybody, and so hopefully we can see you know a much better worldout there in two thousandand, twenty one, two thousand and twenty two thatwill you know, resulting better experiences. You knowlower cost, smarter, healt care. That is, you know, design to actually helpsave lives yeah. So so, Michael There's, you know, I would say, probablyhundreds of thousands. You know- maybe, if not millions, if we're talking aboutglobally of these star innovators that are in different stages, whether it'syou know these, you know big organizations longstanding or whetherits startups there's so much innovation happening. What are some of the keybarriers that you think that are preventing that are going to preventpeople from being successful from successfully commercialize in thatinnovation? And then what are some recommendations that you have all right? So I think from the verybeginning, you have to understand the game you play so and the way I'mlooking at the global market is these two massive global markets. One is theconsumer health market, which is just health and wellness applications isnonregulated, its relatively easy to get in yeah, and so that's one massivemarket about four trillion dollars. The other one, of course, is health care,which is about eight to eight point: Five threillon dollars around the world.We, which you know United States about three point: Five, three Du out ofeight Tint Five, so you can see how massive that industry is. What would my advice always is? Firstof all I mean it's all about the need:...

Yeah trying to figure out a real need.Yeah, don't come up with the technology that has no need yeah. It may be coolto know, hattificial intelligence, machine learning, whatever virtualreality. You know all sorts of advocate try to find a real need that to me thatis the essence of entrepreneurship, trying to find a real need, and itthat's so basic. Why is that so difficult right I mean that is justlike the foundation of every successful company and we logically intellectually.We know I have to be able to meet a need in order to have a sustainablebusiness but like. Why are we still talking about that? Why is that sodifficult? Well, because that I again, this is my opinion, because I believe that that when youhit the healker system, maybe you have a good idea on how to solve ior, Knomental health, anxiety or depression, or you know, Ptsd things getcomplicated, extremely fast yeah and so from having a good idea, yeah and andpossibly even a concept beyond that. That idea, things at complicated veryfast, because the HELCA system doesn't like ideas, doesn't like concert. Yeahthe HELCER system likes evidence and if you don't understand how to create thatevidence, yeah with by using obviously Ou know people in the inside the healtas system like inplinitions and researchers and create that legitimacy yeah. That's where you fail,you think, y. u, let's say you're an engineer and you don't quite understand.I have examples like this in the security and privacy business, forexample. Folks would been extremely successful in financial services in ouother industries. They can't penetrate the healcer industry and they don'tquite understand why. Well, it is because the HELCAR industry is verydifferent from any other industry on the planet. Yeah. And if you don'tunderstand that, then you fail yeah but yeah. It goes back to the need. Then itgoes back to the I guess the team. Like always to me every time I see I seeentrepreneur who comins like hey miceael, have an idea i's like how manyof you are out. There was just me like. Well, please go away. Yeah Ikyou can'tsucceed. Yeah! You need to have a band like a rock Bak and you need two threefour co founders Yeu had to work and particularly healther. You need someonewho understands product development. You need someone who understands youknow sort of a chiep medical ofvice or somebody who understands Helcar a medic.You know a physician, you need someone who understands you know technologiesin Helgar, yeah and so, and then you need possibly a designer yeah whounderstands design, thinking and understands how to create beautifulproducts and services. So if you don't have that team with you from kind ofthe very beginning and a good understanding of the industry and thedomain you're in because this hell cade is so massive thatpretty much every vertical that you have in it yeah, whether it's COPD ordiabetes, or Ou, polmonary diseases or anxiety or mental health, and even inmental health againe you divided fo. All these verticals are, you knowmassive verticals. You know anywhere for Minol two billion dollars to twohundred billion dollars, yeah and so again understand your vertical that youplay in yeah. So yeah it's hard, but I mean that's. That's what makes a goodentrepreneur- and we have seen you know a lot of companies coming from- let'ssay rock help. Quite a few of them have been successful. We have seen you knowsome of them going IPO these days, so somebody told is like hey, it's veryhard to get into the healthyar system,...

...but once you're in you're kind of infor life, yeah, Yo Magiges, a very good reason for any investor to be patientyeah and to you know, put money in those startups, so I actually want tochange the world and but do have patient an you know. This is not a fastgame. Is You know you need five, seven, sometimes even more than seven years toactually show results and digital help. I'm sure all the health innevadorslistening want you to say that again for all the investors that are on themthat has invested in their companies to like. Can you say that one more timebecause it's only been a year, it's only been eighteen months, STILLC keepthe faith, wet yea, keep the faith, and we have seen now. You know with Covetnineteen or corona virus. We have seen such a an increase ofinvestments in teller, health in mental health and digital taapotics, likewe've, never seen before, like Wan the last stars, I've seen, I think this. Theinvestments inteller health in particular is something like fourteenhundred percent. You know compared tt last year, so there's no question that that you knowthe capital is smart. They understand where the puck is going to be. You knowthree four five years from now, so the opportunity is there. If you're in theright place, I would say that there's areas in hellcare where you know is not a good place to be. I looked at a some statistics from Switzerland. Theybelieve somebody did a Statistican, some some hospitals and some healcarsystems actually are. You know decreasing their bodies on it becausethey don't have the money yeah so be careful where you go yeah so, but theopportunity Neverthelessis, massive and again you'll- have winners and losers.You'll have people who understand where the PUCK is going to be three fiveyears from now, and if you are an investor and you're smart about yourmoney than Bo needs. You know that this is a you know, five to seven, maybenine year years, long play it's, not something that you see your money backin twelve months, yeah Yep, that's for sure long sale cycles a lot more complicated, so just any anylast words of advice for anybody. That's in the trenches today before wewrap up. Well, I would say, you know, be kind. Be Calm, be safe. This is whatour chief provicial officer that says here, Dr Henry Dr Bonnie, Henry inBritish Columbia and yeah. It's just stay healthy, stayfit. Trying to you know we can do a lot ofwork. Just like this remotely, and you know the technology sector is doing actuallypretty well compared to you know, let's say the hospitality, the airline, thetraveliiin business yeah, so think about that, how lucky we are to be inthis industry and to be able to actually help yeah and so to me. Thatis, you know, have that purpose in mind every day. It's you know it's very meaningful andso go for it. Goand change the world, andyou know that's all I can say, and if you think that interface hell can helpyou in some way, you know where to find me or what yeah. So, how can folks geta hold of you if anybody wants to follow up with you after the show? I'mso easy to befand I mean just Linktin is fine interface heldcom, you know, add interface, elthon socialmedia treeater. So if you really want to get in touch with me, you'll find away to get in touch with you all right. Well, thanks Li Canask, you rox anexactly just ask Mei'll put you in touch thanks, my Gol for joining ustoday. Okay, very much, I enjoyed it very much stay safe and be healthy.Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening. I knowyou're busy working to bring your life changing innovation to market, and Ivowue your time and your attention to save kind and get the latest episodeson your mobile device automatically subscribe to the show on your favoritepodcast APP like apple podcast, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listeningand I appreciate everyone. WHO's been sharing. The show with friends andcolleagues see you on the next episode of coiq.

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