Health Innovators
Health Innovators

Episode · 1 year ago

Are messaging and branding really important for a healthcare startup? w/ Lonny Stormo


Stepping out of a 30-year career in the world’s leading medical device company takes more than guts - it takes a solid solution and a plan to bring that solution to market. 

After building a three-decades-long career at Medtronics, Lonny Stormo took a chance. He parlayed his diverse experience into action and started a new journey as a startup CEO. 

But going from a large company with near-limitless resources to a small company was no cakewalk. Add in a saturated market and things get even more sticky.

But Lonny and his co-founders believed in their idea, so they applied some solid co-creation fundamentals and did not skimp when it came to messaging and branding.

The result? Five years of planning and building translated into differentiator status for his startup and partnerships in the making. Not a bad turnabout.

In this episode, Lonny shares the story of how his company of engineers got a crash course in marketing that turned the tide in their favor. 

If you’re trying to break into the market, these insights and tips might be exactly what you need to help break away from the crowd! 

Here are the show highlights:

  • The importance of focus groups and customer discovery (1:30)
  • Why it might not be a bad idea to bring in a 3rd party for co-creation (4:34)
  • How to guard against infused bias (6:51)
  • Why your product should be more beneficial than a burden (8:08)
  • Saturated markets and how to stand out in them (11:59)
  • Your product won’t sell itself: the importance of branding and messaging (14:15)
  • A good story can be a game-changer for your solution (17:06)

Guest Bio

Lonny Stormo is Co-Founder and CEO of POPS! Diabetes Care, Inc., a leader in the democratization of healthcare via an AI-driven virtual coach that helps users self-manage diabetes.

After 30 years at Medtronics, Lonny left in pursuit of a vision that would set healthcare on its head - that vision is POPS!

Lonny earned his BA in Engineering from the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology and his MBA from Arizona State University

If you’d like to reach out to Lonny, you can reach him on Twitter @LonnyStormo, on LinkedIn at Lonny Stormo, or on his website at

Welcome to Coiq, where you learn howhealth innovators maximize their success. I'm your host, Dr Roxy,founder of Legacy, DNA and international beath selling author ofhow health innovators maximize market success through handed conversationswith health, innovators earlier doctors and influencers you'll learn how tobring your innovation, some idea to start up to market domination, and now,let's jump into the latest episode of Coiq, welcome back to Youyq listeners.On today's episode, I have Lannie Stormo with me. He is the CEO for popdidibites. Welcome to the show Lonnie tanks. Prhoin me appreciate you in youryeah. It's good to chat with you today. So tell us a little bit about yourbackground and what you've been innovating lately, just to kind of giveour listeners and viewers some context for our conversation today, absolutelyso I've an engineer by background. So I love creating things and I spent thirtyyears at vetronic, the biggest cinplinable medical device company inthe world, and you can imagine over thirty years. I did a lot of differentthings. You know from design an development operations and let abusiness unit for a number of yew years, but I left patronic five years ago asone of the cofounders of POPs, because we saw a different view of healthcareand where health cares going and really we wanted to kind of flip healthcareand attent and enable people to take care of their own healph using atechnology platform. So that's what we're working on is kind ofdemocratizing health care, that's exciting. So where are you in theinnovation process right now yeah? So we are. We went through development ofa product. We got FDA clearance of a product. We got clinical study data onour product and about a year ago launched our product into themarketplace. So we're just at that point of you know helping peopleunderstand who POPs are get our visibility out. There make sure ourproduct market that is correct and...

...that's kind of what we're Hav theprocess today, that's great so so Lonnie as you kind of think back inthese last five years. What were some of the decisions that you've made sofar that you think have been gain changing decisions or really pivotaldecisions? That's led to the success that Yoyou'v, you know accumulated sofar yeah. I would highlight probably two orthree so the first one was when we started. We held lots of focus groupsand we literally talkd to hundreds of people in puclish groups, people withdiabetes people that are helping people care for diabetes, and what were tryingto really understand is so. Why is it that diabetes is not being managed sowell today, over fifty percent of the people with diabetes, don't meet theATA recommended goals. It makes dibetes the most expensive, chronic conditionwe have in the United States, and the number of peoplewith diabetes is notshrinking. Unfortunately, and so what we were trying to understand is why issomething notworking, because there's lots of different APPS and tools and soforth out there, and what we really wanted to do was land on the right spotin terms of how to enable people to manage their own niviesion. So when Italked about flipping healthcare on his head and devocradizing health care,what we started with was this idea that what we wanted to do was give people atechnology platformm, that's a simple consumer, audiented type of product,just like we have democratized travel through simple technology platforms inyour phone. We wanted to do the same thing in health care and so reachingthat kind of sweet spot of a really created. An experience of people wouldactually use, but at the same time, could actually be helpful to them andmanaging their health care. You know has been one of our. You know, peythings that we talk about every day you know is, is our virtual coach we haveis who Hena hat is her name in the apt? Is Mina doing this thing now going toessentially drive people away because now we've become too heavy handedhealthcare and we're not thinking like...

...a consumer anymore, so kind of reakingthat kind of sweet, spod of creating and experience people actually use on adaily basis and still help them t that's one of the key things that weneeded to land on and then the biggest one that we needed to. You know thinkabout all the time over the last five I years en the business side is what'sthe right business model here right people ask us all the time. Well, thisslook feels like a consumer product. Are you selling this direct to consumer?They answer no ere not and then traditionally in like the diabete space,what companies like us would do is market to positions to have positions,prescribe this product to their patients or market, the hospitals andclinics and so forth, and we're not doing that. So what we decided to dowas really focus on selling this as a subscription service to help plans andor to the ployer clients for those health plans, and so it becomes more ofan employing benefit in that way and we save the employersmoney and so looking at what the right business model was and looking like,owhat the right product. It was those ware, the two biggest key decisionsthat we made over the last five years, so so kind of just kind of peeling thelayers back of what you're talking about o. The first thing that I thinkyou mentioned was around cocreation and in really integrating this entire productdevelopment product management process, integrating those stake holders. Whatwas that like for you, because I have conversations with people all the timethat you know maybe are a little bit more resistant to it than others, and,and you know sometimes, it goes really well and sometimes there's a lot ofmyths or pitfalls of including those state holders in the process. So whatir? What was your experience? And maybe some lessons that you learned along theway yeah? I the biggest lesson I learne.What I think about you know. You say lessons learnd, that I start smiling isbecause what we did was we spent a lot of time talking to people with diabetesand, as we were, developing prototypes...

...testing it with people, diametes and soforth, and then we thought we had this product and we had the labeling aroundthe product and everything and we were ready to start a clinical study. Butbefore we did, we wanted to maybe do some more formal human factors testing,and so we hired a consulting agency to work with US and they have the thetoway mirror whatever and we're sitting behind this two way mirror, while thepeople are starting to try to use the product by themselves in the other Roaand it I just wanted to pull my hair out. It was a frustrating experiencebecause they didn't get what we would done and you know for us as being partof that Copre Ison. We were like how can they not see this or how can theynot understand this? But I think what we learned in that processwas us being part of the cocus groups, and so forth is a really easy way toskew the results of what you're seeing there and when you give something tosomebody kind of, as we say now in the wild. You know you never know whatpeople are going to do and they do completely unexpected things, and sothat is ilearning for us and something that we continually remind ourselves.Even when we make a small change in our APP or whatever. Now we know okay, nowwe have to have somebody test us and make sure that you know it really worksthe way we think it's going to work, because we're never not surprised whenwe do that, yeah that Wus, probably our biggest learning in the cocreatoionprocess yeah, and I think that that's so important that you just mentioned about having athird party involved and because one of the things that I see happen reallyoften is when the innovator is doing that kind of cocreation themselveswithout including an outside entity. It's really easy to infuse all of thebias that you have and and kind of set it up in such a way where you're, justreally getting your participants to validate what you've already developed,are the ideas that you already have. Instead of really teasing out thatrejection,... know and Thoese things that theydon't like and that they don't understand, and so you know we're onlyhurting ourselves. If we, you know infuse our bias, and I think one way todo that is by having the third party company involved in that yeah. Itotally agree with you. It is so hard to remove yourself froman innovation that you're creating it's like your baby right and you wanteverybody to love your baby and tell you how beautiful it is, and it'sreally difficult to hear when it's not right and and to do that removed fromit. A step is, is an important stuff in the process, and we continue to learnthat all the time and value that all the time yeah yeah absolutely so. The other thing that I want to talkabout here is: I get the sense that what you're doingis is, although it's Didibese management and, like you said, there'sa lot of solutions that are on the market, that you use the CO creation toreally figure out very deeply and intimately where theunmet need was so that way, when you were going to market that you werebringing something that head a market need for it instead of ame to product yeah. That's exactly right, I mean soas an example when we did a focus groups to begin with, there were morethan a thousand apps out there for diabetes management in the AX store,and so we started. You know talking to people about using APPs to manage theirdiabetes and Olone of the things that we found wasso you know, astounding, is that we actually worked with the Physitian topublish is at American Dibetes Association, because what we found was.Ninety percent of people said they wanted to use man for manageor diabetesand we're like okay, great there's, a thousand aps out there, which one areyou USIC, and what we found was only ten percent of them were actually usingan aptt manager, Dibat Hes, always how can it possibly be that there's a biggap between ninety percent and ten percent yeah reason is, is because theyactu don't really meet the needs of what the people are doing, and so it'sone thing to say: Hey I'm, making it ap... you know help you know people withdiabetes, but then you kind of quickly find out we're not actually meeting theneeds of people and what one of the themes we found across that was thatthe APPs created more burden than they did benefit and so whan. All these APPswere doing was asking people to log information and track this and enterthis, and do this and the benefit wasn't really for the person that wasactually putting the effort into it. It was for gathering data for somebodyelse or to send it to a physician or something, and so then people do thatfor two or three weeks, iner roller, while I'm not getting anything out ofthis, I'm just going to quit. Doing it, and so one of the Montoras we've usedfrom the very beginning is more benefit than birden. So anything ask the personwith diabetes. To do there better, be some resulting ry benefit from that forthat person to do that action. Otherwise it's not worth it to do it, and so you know one of the things thatwe're trying to roll into our product as we think about it is one noteverybody's. The same there's going to be super motivated people, Tho manager,diabetes and people that are Uno motivated, and you can't have one aptthat kind of addresses everybody just doesn't work, so we try to have meanour,virtal, coach, personalize, based on motivation and Kend of what you'redoing and the other thing is try to, and- and we have much more road tocover this area, but try to use artificial intellligence to create morebenefit. Without always asking the person to you know do more things, andso that's that's going to be. I think the challenge for health care as we goforward in general is. We need to always be thinking about what benefiterwe creatin for a person versus just what are we asking them to do, which doesn't seem like rocket science,but it's really important to parn out and remind ourselves right. I agree. It is a rocket side, it's a,although that I will say you know, when I talked about like using artificialintelligence, I think one of the things tas artificial intellgrance becomesmore and more use in the healthcar industry. You know so far a lot of aikind of talk. This happened about terms...

...of how do we make doctors more fichentdor? How do we take a an Xray and point out to the position? This is the area.You should look right, that's how AI has been used a lot yeah. We need to domore and more of in start getting ai to help. Individuals like ourselves takecare of ourselves better and I think that's happething right. I mean we'reone of the companies that are trying to do that, but other companies are tryingto do that to it. That to me is going to be inway. Ai Really becomes usefulfor individuals like us, so yeah yeah, absolutely so so what was it like foryou? Pitching your story to the investormarket or even to the market? That's Payin for this solution. When you're you're you're going into a market that isalready seems to be saturated and trying to differentiate what you haveto offer from the you know. Let's say the thousand of APPS that are, you know,kind of cod webs right now, right, yeah, that's a really really good point, andit's one that we've been thinking about and battling. You know for the lastfive years of because, as soon as you say, diabetes, I've heard it five yearsago and I still hear it today. Op there's a lot of things out there fordiabetes. Already you know, how can you possibly be any different and sometimesunfortunately- and this is jhus more work- I need to figure out how O dobetter is even after I make the pitch. Sometimes people say to me: Well, ifyou boil right down what you have, you really have another sensor, an anotheract, that's what everybody has and it's like. Yes, if you boil it down to thatlow point, that is true, but you need to look kind of at the you know theessence of that, and so what we try to do is always kind of work on ourmessaging of how com woe make this easier to do so. As an example, youknow we're doing all of our pitches, whether itvestor or sales pitches.Today virtually and so one of the things we've done in doing that iswe've added a Wimpam, so we can actually show people directly thedifference between kind of the traditional test, cit, that's out thereand our device to get a Blod, O...

...tescrosse measurement, and when peoplesee that we've actually gotten feed back from people, that's reallyvaluable. When you do that, and so when people can see the difference, thenthey start to think. Okay, now it's different rather than just seeing it on a slide,and then you know the whole Ar Reo yeah becomes more real and then the wholeidea of you know what we do is we may ask a person so like if I was pitchingto you, I would ask you: Would you rather have a live coach connected toyour device kind of watching you all the time? Or would you rather have avirtual coach in your phone? Given you feed back kind of you know when it'swhen it's appropriate and more oten than not people say yeah, I don't wantsomebody kind of watching me and so forth and we're like well, that's theexperience you're, giving your people ith diabetes today. Is that what youwant to give em, you know a mean, so it's? How do you make it more real toyou as an individual, yeah yeah? So so I know that you've, your story and yourbrand has evolved and those are such fundamental pieces to the commercialsuccess. So take us through that journey. You know and I think for any brandthere's an evolution process, but is a CEO with an engineering background. Youknow kind of help us understand what that was like in the beginning and thenwhat Wuld the results of that first approach and then what you diddifferently and kind of now how you're getting different results yeah. I absolutely smile and Yask thatquestion because Yoa know you see this offen in innovation companies rightwhere you have three engineers, which is our case three engineers gettogether and come up with this idea and at the same time we're branding itthat's a terrible idea, but it happens all the time. PAINTRESS An- and you know you did come out witha very engineering brandot. You know you know, name, Glogo and and colorsand and our website and so forth were very, very fundamental basic kind ofengineering kind of stuff, and so that's what we ran with for a while andthat works fine for O ur, early investor conversations and so forth,and I think investors beally. You know... they're. Looking companies likeourselves realize that y? U Okay! This is the commercial dlise brand yet and then, when we got closer tocommercialization, we hired a marketing and brand director and she justcompletely came in and changed everything that wed done and and it wasfanfantastic every time she showed us something butere like. Oh, we love it.You know, so we knew what we wanted. We just didn't know how to create it. Istowar in Topin, in with that kind of point of view, an that expertise andand that thinking completely transformed what we wanted to do it andshe did a good job by saying. Well, what is it we're trying to do? You knowwhat are we trying to be? You know, and I talk about things like democradizinghealth care and putting health care in people's hands. You know so she came upwith the tag line onn your life right, which, as soon as she showed it to us,we ere like that's beautiful. We love it. You know kind of think, becausethat's exactly what we're trying to do. Is You owl your life? You know we'renot going to manage you, so she got it in so that transpormationreally helped an. I can tell you one of our born members, who was the leadinvestor in our SERIESA. They told us after the fact T. I didn't know this atthe time, but they said after you know, Tamra came in and kind of regrandedeverything and stuff. They said Yeah. Actually one of the things that salmost stopped us from investing in your company was your website and howyou guys looked and so forth. BRANDWISE WED be decided to go ahead, but and itwas actually their investment that allowed us to actually make thattransformation. I right IG T so that I does matter to people, whether it'sinvestors and so forth, and now today we get grat feedback from our clientsand from the people that use our system and so forth that they love our Brahm.Hey It's Dr Roxy, here with a quick break from the conversation. Are youtrying to figure out what moves you need to make to survive and thrive inthe new covid economy? I want every health innovator to find their mostviable and profitable pivid Strategi, which is why I creates Ha covid proofyour business to the kid. The PIPO KIT is a step by step framework that helpsyou find your best tivid strategy. It...

...walks you through six categories. Youneed to examine for a three hundred and sixty degree view of your business. Icall them the six critical pivot linses, as you make your way through thiscomprehensive kid, you'll be armed with the tools, tips and strategies you needto make sure you can pivot with speed without missing out on critical detailsand opportunities, learn more at legacy. Tythan DNACOM, Backsla Kit. So do you feel like you're, gainingmore traction in all of the different in the conversations in the work thatyou're doing because of this new story that you're telling absolutely withouta doubt so I'll give you two example. So one example that we continue to getgreat feedback on is so when our competition signs up a personwildiametes to use this system, they call the members or they call inparticipants and what we decided to do with the tagline on your ligft. Whensomebody signs up and ews our solution, we call him an owner now that may soundlike nothing right, but when you actually say that to a client they'relike Oh, I love that, and you know I mean it. Ely gets crossed how you'recoming at this differently than other people are coming at it, and so thoselittle things really really do matter as you're kind of pitching out thecompany and and then the second thing I'll mentioned is so one of the focusesthat we put and ways we talked about kind of our sales funel, all the waydown to an individual. You know kind of callto action. We put a lot of effortinto our digital presence, and so we want what is POPs to be? You know whatis our grandness over to be known? No matter what your favorite thing is, ifit's instagram or Linkedin or website, and and so we get feed back regularlyfrom people that Oh, I love your website. I love the kind of you knowthe casual language o use and things like that and and our you know, Seosyou know, ratings have gone. You know skyrocket. In the last six months wehave ten sand social media followers.

You know things like that and so yeahthat kind of work. It's really cool to see that happening and what's coolabout it is. I have no idea how to do that, but it's fun watching our teamfigure out how to do so. So I think that what you'redescribing here is you know the messaging, the branding, the packagingand how critical that is to commercial success that, even if you have anincredible technology, that it is not going to sell itself- and you know weknow that, but that these things are just fundamentally important, and Iwant to point out what you said in casual language. So time and time again,I you know- and I think we've made progress as an industry, but there'sstill a tremendous amount of work to be done with speaking to patients andpractitioners like regular people and instead of the the corporate healthcare speekh. That doesn't resonate with that with the head in the heart, and itdoesn't establish that relatedness in that deeper connection from person toperson it's more like I'm an healthcare institution and you are the member orthe participant, and so it's just brilliant great job. Thank you. I appreciate that. I andsome of that stems from my own personal bias. Right I mean I, I always saynobody strives to be a patient. NOPE, that's nobody's goal when they wake upin the morning, I'm going to be a patient today and I personally hate itwhen the health hare industry calls peoplelike me that are living with diabetes, a patient, I'm not a patient, I'm aperson Yah right, I lik with diabetes, but you know that's a condition justlike. If somebody has eyeglasses, you know, and they need those to seekbetter well they're, not almost all of a sudden, a patient they're, just aperson, Tha wors, I glass Sas, I'm a person managing my diabis, and so Ithink the industry in general needs to make a ship and start thinking ofpeople like people and not like patience mm. So there's two otherthings that I want to talk about. One... your business model, so you have aunique business model for a healthcare company. So what were some of thethings that you wrestled with and kind of determining where you would land andhow you would introduce yourself the the business model into the marketplace yeah, so one of the last things thathad a fallen place for me personally before I decided to leav my job atMetronic, which I had a great career there. So why Leegue was the businessbottle, because you know we thought we had a great idea, an a great concept,but I knew that going and getting reimbursement in kind of thetraditional health far industry would be a huge mountain. I did that atmetronic with all the resources of Metronic, and here we were going tohave no resources. How are we going to possibly do that yeah? So we kind offind figured out that you know what actually most of the health carepayments in the United States are happening out of private commercialemployers. Why not go ask them to pay for this because they're, the ones thatare going to benefit from it when these people are healthier and happier and soforth? So why not ask them O and so switching our mindset from Oh, you haveto go, get payor, reinbursement and stuff the way health care traditionalanthings to. Let's go: Ask the people who really are banking. This pocketbook,you know, was a key milestone for us. That was just like liht goes on andwe're like okay, now, let's go do this, but the challenge of doing thatobviously, is getting everybody to start thinking like that and five yearsago. You know we weren't selling yet, but inkind of you know telling people this is what we were going to do. People arelike what you're going to you're going to ask employers to pay for this. Howis that going to possibly work? The good news is, is that employer startedto actually take a more active role in trying to find solutions like ourselves,and so now you know when we have fd improval now in the last year and soforth, it's a little bit better position than if we would have beenbreaking into this and trying to get those players to you know pay US fiveyears ago. So that's the good news Brus is that we made progress in that areaabout how employers could actually...

...start to pay and benefit from this myeah. So you've got some great news. You've got some exciting things thathave happened recently and you know I want to make sure that you have anopportunity. Thi share with us. You know those things and I think it'sincredibly important, especially in this climate that we're in right now.You know we're hearing a lot about the obstacles and the barriers and thechallenges, and so what's happening. What are someof the new highlights that you have going on yeah like everybody, I thinkeverybody saw basically just a slow down or a stop or a pause. You knowkind of starting in February march, when covid nineteen hit becauseeverybody's trying to reassess what does that really mean, and we saw thattoo, but the good news overall. For you know, I think, solutions like ourselvesin the digital health, space or digital therapeuic spaces, that code adNineteenis, actually elevated those things to be more important and we'restarting to actually realize that and see that now, in actual things, and soas an example, we've signed a regional healt plan recently that has one and ahalf million members to offer pops out to their commercial plants, and so whatthat does for us an we always knew Kand of our model of selling was to go fromasking e employers to pay fo this directly to askin their third partyadministrators or their Asos, to pay for this and offer it to them, becausethat's a more scalable model. So now this contract with th the health planthat we have in place, they can go on not for that to their employer clientswithout US amweere having to talk to the employer, clients, and so that's isa much more scalable way of doing it, and they also just launched us in a newinsurance product. That's out there for their fully insured clients and they'reputting POPs as the only bender featured in that product, because theysee us as one way to differentiate that insurance product away from other onesthat are out there, and so we are really proud of that that that's reallygo e're betting held up as kind of a differentiating feature. The other sideout besides the commercial healt plans,... the partnering opportunities thatwe're starting to see because different companies are looking for digitalhealth solutions to partner with, and so we just recently won the serinnovation challenge regional round at the Asia level and we're now one ofeight companies globally. THAT SIRC is evaluating for a final. You know,global winner and Zurich is a life insuranch company and people might say.Well. Why are you in talking to a like in Cherich company, but interestinglate companies like that are interested in offering out digital health to theircustomers as a way of deferentiating themselves? And so s that's pretty cool,and you know likewise, we have you know some other partering opportunities thatpeople are reaching out to us and I think that's both tha. Credit of youknow digital health rising due to povut nineteen and credit, to kind of ourdigital presence that we have out there. Tha POPs kind of rises up when peopleare saying well what else what's out there for Diabese management? So so that's great congratulations in what a what a better position.There's! No better position for you to be in then for different organizations or partners tobe able to see your solution as the tool that they can use fordifferentiation. That's really powerful, yeahabsolutely, we're proud of it too,and you know it helps t rise us out of that pack of all the diabetes thingsthat are out there that we talked about a while ago. So do you have plans to gobeyond the US yeah? We actually do so. We have our regulatory approval C markthat is basically outside the United States. That's already done, and so wehave some partner conversations going on with different parts of the worldthat could open updoors. Specifically, as we talked to Zuric, as I mentioned,we were talking about a pilot in Australia and that's kind of a nexteasy place for us to go because of the language and the culture and so forth,yeah, and so we'll look for other opportunities like that to okay great.So one of the thing that I want to talk about is you came from a really bigorganization and it sounds like you've...

...had a number of different roles thathelped you really get very diverse experience in medical device and so how?How did that experience, transition or translate into you being anentrepreneur and starting your own company, and you know just highlightI'm sure, there's tons of them, but just highlight some of the differencesbetween being part of a large institution and then starting your ownsmall company from scratch yeah. So it is a big transition and so what I've often said to people when Ihad thirty years of Bentronic and able to do all these different types ofroles that I did from operations to quality to Cliniclote regulatories. Ididn't know it at the time, but I was training to be a call tho start upbecause, as a Sego of a startup or a boundery of a startup, you need to knowhow to do all those different things, and so that was fantastic experiencefor me and, interestingly, I thought when I left Metronic as an older person,you can imagine you know I'm in my s, leaving metronic after thirty yearsthat this was going to be a deficit to me. You know that investors would neverinvest in this person that you know it's only worked o the corporation andhe's you know not this. You Know Young Twenty year old, hungry person, but itturned out that I quickly found out that actually having that pedigree ofthirty years as a corporate life of Metronic is my biggest asset. So Inever go now without you know, starting by saying I spent thirty years ofMetronic, because people like listen all of the sudden, because, okay, thisperson knows what they're talking about so l linial startups found start upfounders that I talk to always say, and I hope you don't be get offended bythis, but that the advice that they always get is they need to have somegray hair on their board and their advisory team to gon the credibilitythat you have Ahi a believe me: I've, not a Fiom Othat I'm just gad you ti see. I have hair right. The other example I will give you thatI think is always interesting is so I...

...went from like the biggest medicaldevision company in the world eightthousand people to when we firststarted. It was three of us right and yeah, and I we joke about it now. Youknow, as there was three of US sitting in a garage and we're all sittingaround looking at a computer school Sgreen, trying to make some decisionabout a product or Bendor. We were going to use or something- and Iremember joking at the time as we were trying to figure it out, and I turnedover my shoulder- and I said: Okay who's going to make this decisionbecause you know in a big company, there always seems like there's onemore person over your shoulder just going to make me final decision butyeah. In our case it was like. I guess we're going to do it. You know, and andeven though none of us were experts in this particular area as a small startupcompany, you just need to decide. Okay, let's do it and you know jump in and doit, and so that's the biggest difference that I saw is there's somany great resources around you at a big company. All this expertise. Youcan call on for these specific topics and so forth, and you just don't havethat as a founder in a startup company and and you need to take some risk- anmake. Some bold decisions- and you don't always know, but you maybe try toask a couple people and then you decide so as we wrap up here in continuingthat conversation point what advice do you have for your peers, yourinnovation peers that are in the market right now in the trenches? You knoweither earlier stage later stage. You know,what do you have to say to them? Well, I say to thinks one is absolutely put focus on your brand andyour messages and your te selling points not just your product, becauseyour product won't tell itself it doesn't matter how good it is, and sothat's one keen thing is you need to think bing and broad about how you'reselling and that whole sales funnel and then the second thing is, I would say,I always talked about it like building a staircase. You can't jump to theimmediate top stair and I think a lot of people try to do that and then theyfail they get frustrated and they quit or whatever they. You know, you know,think about building your momentum. So...

...what dis that first starestep you canget. Maybe it's a win in an acceleratod programmer. Maybe it's a pilot programor something, but once you get that traction, then you build on that oneand you take the next step and you take the next Sep and you make the next stepand it's a hard journey and I've often told other entrepreneurs that I'vetalked to since I've done. This is, if you're doing this for the money. Thisstop right now, don't even do it, because it's too hard for that it needsto be something you're, passionate about whether it's an idea, whetherit's you personal to you or you know, just O K, ow changing the world iswhat's important to you. That's actually they need to happen becauseit's really tough! Yes, it is. You need that to be the energy thathelps. You persevere and stay determined right for the cause, as yougo through all of those Cha challenges and get knocked down and have to standback up a million times, urive yeah. It's definitely well. Thank you so muchfor joining me today. I really appreciate your time and how can folksget a hold of you if they want to follow up with you after the show yea?So the easiest way overall to get a hold of us is go to our website. POPsdibdscom and if you want to get a Olld of me specifically twitter, might be agood way at Lanni Starmo, perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you very muchto appreciate. Thank you so much for listening. I know you're busy workingto bring your life changing innovation to market, and I vowue your time andyour attention to save timd and get the latest episodes on your mobile deviceautomatically subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast APP like applepodcasts, spotify and stitcher. Thank you for listening, and I appreciateeveryone. WHO's been sharing. The show with friends and colleagues, see you onthe next episode of coiq.

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